What's new

Transgender woman accuses Wellington women-only gym of discrimination

KingKhanWC

World Star
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Runs
50,710
A Wellington transgender woman says she has been discriminated against by a gym that describes itself as being "for all women".

Penelopy Mansell has spent years transitioning to becoming a woman under New Zealand law, having been through court procedures to legally change her gender to female on her birth certificate and all other legal documents.

She says she went into Revive Gym on Willis St, Wellington, to enquire about membership prices and potentially join. However, she says she was turned down by the first staff member she spoke to.

The incident happened on Monday when Mansell, 49, decided to visit the gym to look into membership options.

"I talked to a lady there who launched straight into questions. She said 'I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to ask you if you are transgender'," Mansell recalled.

"I thought that was inappropriate. She said it was the company's policy that transgender people are medically authenticated."

Mansell explains that the gym wanted to see a medical document certifying that she'd had sex reassignment surgery, which she hasn't had because, she says, the waiting list is decades long.

Mansell says she showed the gym staff member her birth certificate proving she is legally a woman. Mansell carries the document everywhere as she is often asked to prove her gender.

The woman, born and bred in Wellington, says she was looking to join a women only gym because she wanted to feel "safer".

"I don't want to have to use the men's facilities in a regular gym," she said.

Mansell, who spent the last couple of years legally transitioning to female, was left distressed by the situation.

"This is discrimination. She wouldn't talk to me about anything else. She wouldn't even give me the tour," she said.

Revive gym has told the Herald it will look into its policy, following the incident.

"We would firstly like to apologise for any harm our current policy has caused. The policy has been in place for a long time, but we acknowledge that this is no defence, and however unintentional it may have been we accept that it may be hurtful to those who are excluded by it," Cherie Cooper, area manager for Revive Fitness said.

"We know that this is a sensitive matter, and to that end as a business we are urgently reaching out to organisations within the Wellington GLBTI community for guidance and advice to review our policy and ensure that our gyms are a safe and comfortable environment, and an inclusive and understanding community for all women."

Mansell says she is disappointed that, despite being flooded with support from other members of the community, the gym did not try to get in touch with her at all and she has not received a personal apology or explanation.

The New Zealand Human Rights Commission says it can't comment on this particular case.

"The Human Rights Act provides for complaints alleging discrimination on the grounds of sex to be considered for mediation," a spokeswoman said.

"If someone thinks they have been discriminated against, they can make a complaint to the Human Rights Commission."

TRANS.jpg


Hmmm. Is this a case of discrimination which should be referred to the human rights commission? Or was the gym right to deny membership as it's a women only gym?

Should we have transgender only gyms now? What about public toilet, should they allowed to enter womens toilets?

Its a difficult one for me but I agree with the gym here.
 
For me there are two potential infringements of rights here.

The first one is the obvious - potentially against the transgender woman. Certainly I can understand why she would feel aggrieved about this, because she is legally considered a woman and fully identifies as such.

The second one is potentially against some of the women who use the gym. They will be sharing a changing room with the transgender woman, and anyone who has been to a gym changing room knows that a cubicle is often unavailable. So the transgender woman in the undressed state will look rather “unlike” the born women in these scenarios.... Of course some women won’t be bothered, but others probably will.

Based on the effect this was likely to have on multiple people (established subscribers to that particular gym) versus the rights of the individual transgender woman who is not yet a customer, as you say it’s an extremely difficult one, but ultimately here I fall on the side of the gym.

I would add to this that if the transgender woman had completed her gender reassignment surgery then I would fully be on her side and she should be granted membership straight away. That would definitely be blatant discrimination.
 
Last edited:
Gender is determined by the Y chromosome, can a document override the laws of nature.
 
For me there are two potential infringements of rights here.

The first one is the obvious - potentially against the transgender woman. Certainly I can understand why she would feel aggrieved about this, because she is legally considered a woman and fully identifies as such.

The second one is potentially against some of the women who use the gym. They will be sharing a changing room with the transgender woman, and anyone who has been to a gym changing room knows that a cubicle is often unavailable. So the transgender woman in the undressed state will look rather “unlike” the born women in these scenarios.... Of course some women won’t be bothered, but others probably will.

Based on the effect this was likely to have on multiple people (established subscribers to that particular gym) versus the rights of the individual transgender woman who is not yet a customer, as you say it’s an extremely difficult one, but ultimately here I fall on the side of the gym.

I would add to this that if the transgender woman had completed her gender reassignment surgery then I would fully be on her side and she should be granted membership straight away. That would definitely be blatant discrimination.

Fair opinion James but can you please expand a little on this surgery? I don't need details but in general is this something all transgenders should do or it more of a choice?

If you agree with the gym, what if the same women were felt the same when they saw the same person in public toilets? Would they be right too to demand no entry?
 
Fair opinion James but can you please expand a little on this surgery? I don't need details but in general is this something all transgenders should do or it more of a choice?

If you agree with the gym, what if the same women were felt the same when they saw the same person in public toilets? Would they be right too to demand no entry?

Transsexual people (those who have gender reassignment surgery) only make up 3% of the transgender population.

And 70% of those remaining 97% would not even consider themselves the opposite gender, they would just be transvestite (enjoy cross-dressing), so they would be Mr Smith living a normal life by day, and be Miss Williams on the weekends.

The remaining 27% are mostly made up of transgender people who consider themselves the opposite gender mentally and emotionally, and will dress as the opposite gender, but are not so in terms of their bodies, because the surgery is too expensive / dangerous / otherwise not suitable or available for them. The transgender woman in the OP is one of these individuals.

And yes, I do feel that if a naturally born woman with “womanly features” disliked the presence in the female changing room of a transgender woman who had retained her “manly features”, then the latter woman should be removed. Harsh, but I can see why it would be massively uncomfortable for some people.
 
Transsexual people (those who have gender reassignment surgery) only make up 3% of the transgender population.

And 70% of those remaining 97% would not even consider themselves the opposite gender, they would just be transvestite (enjoy cross-dressing), so they would be Mr Smith living a normal life by day, and be Miss Williams on the weekends.

The remaining 27% are mostly made up of transgender people who consider themselves the opposite gender mentally and emotionally, and will dress as the opposite gender, but are not so in terms of their bodies, because the surgery is too expensive / dangerous / otherwise not suitable or available for them. The transgender woman in the OP is one of these individuals.

And yes, I do feel that if a naturally born woman with “womanly features” disliked the presence in the female changing room of a transgender woman who had retained her “manly features”, then the latter woman should be removed. Harsh, but I can see why it would be massively uncomfortable for some people.

Thanks James.

It's a complicated issue but I agree people of one sex have the right to feel comfortable and a right to a certain level of privacy. The issue is transgender people are human too who are not all bad people with bad intentions but will feel discriminated against in such circumstances. There is no easy solution to this, the world including transgender people need to use common sense and not offend or be offended all the time.
 
Back
Top