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UK General Election. Don't be surprised if Theresa May's gamble fails

Note for others not labouring under the cognitive dissonance of the above poster.

Nate Silver puts the error for UK polls at 15%

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Very interesting by <a href="https://twitter.com/NateSilver538">@NateSilver538</a>. Historic UK polling has a margin of error as much as 15%. Tory lead not so safe: <a href="https://t.co/UAyUxvNbhk">https://t.co/UAyUxvNbhk</a> <a href="https://t.co/j5U02W34iY">pic.twitter.com/j5U02W34iY</a></p>— Peter Yeung (@ptr_yeung) <a href="https://twitter.com/ptr_yeung/status/854728093503811586">19 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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Validating my earlier comment, Diane Abott made a number of glaring errors in her interview yesterday. There is no way she gets my vote
 
Corbyn needs a more competent best mate than Diane.

She's been an embarrassment for a long time
 
According to ICM, only half of those who voted UKIP in 2015 say they would do so again. As many as 41% say they will vote Conservative. May looks set to hoover up a lot of those UKIP votes.
 
even Tories starting to think Theresa May losing it

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Why then was Downing St dismissing it all as "gossip" only 48 hrs ago which they wouldn't react too? That seemed grown up. This is reckless <a href="https://t.co/ni8xBS3yiF">https://t.co/ni8xBS3yiF</a></p>— Tim Montgomerie ن (@montie) <a href="https://twitter.com/montie/status/859830785276358656">3 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Peter Oborne has RT-ed this

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My view: Britons go into this election virtually totally ignorant on UK’s real role in world, thanks to the media <a href="https://t.co/NRx90PzWxG">https://t.co/NRx90PzWxG</a> <a href="https://t.co/HMFYsAb1dE">pic.twitter.com/HMFYsAb1dE</a></p>— Mark Curtis (@markcurtis30) <a href="https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/858978907353231360">1 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Note for others not labouring under the cognitive dissonance of the above poster.

Nate Silver puts the error for UK polls at 15%

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Very interesting by <a href="https://twitter.com/NateSilver538">@NateSilver538</a>. Historic UK polling has a margin of error as much as 15%. Tory lead not so safe: <a href="https://t.co/UAyUxvNbhk">https://t.co/UAyUxvNbhk</a> <a href="https://t.co/j5U02W34iY">pic.twitter.com/j5U02W34iY</a></p>— Peter Yeung (@ptr_yeung) <a href="https://twitter.com/ptr_yeung/status/854728093503811586">19 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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If the polls are saying that the Tories are leading by around 20%, and there can be an error upto 15%, then it means that the Tory lead over Labour could be as high as 35% ? Polls for you eh?
 
Yeah stats hey. That would however be at odds with the real lived experience of the people.

Corbyn has been going around the country meeting real people to rapturous applause
May has been skulking around the backwaters and on the odd occasion she meets real people there is usually intense anger or pointed questions directed at her
 
May in Bristol

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Theresa May's visit to a working class estate in Bristol did not end well. Event was Tories only but as she left... <a href="https://t.co/KyMGhB6WA5">pic.twitter.com/KyMGhB6WA5</a></p>— Eoin Clarke (@LabourEoin) <a href="https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/859493104667299846">2 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Corbyn in Bedford

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Today, Jeremy Corbyn visited Bedford. If like me you don't trust the BBC to accurately report it, you can share this <a href="https://t.co/VHlYM2sVhb">pic.twitter.com/VHlYM2sVhb</a></p>— Eoin Clarke (@LabourEoin) <a href="https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/859769573675073536">3 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Local elections - looks like only the Tories and the Greens have performed acceptably. Everyone else is having a shocker.
 
It's local elections - with a low turnout due to a General Election coming up.
Meaning people havn't bothered to go out and vote. A low turnout always favours the Tories, because their (elderly) voters do enjoy putting on their Sunday best (even though the voting usually takes place on a Thursday) and going out to vote. Whereas, in complete contrast, the average working class Labour supporter is too busy trying to make a living to go and vote.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">HERE IS MY TAKE ON THE LOCAL ELECTION RESULTS <a href="https://t.co/0lVjTt5MfG">https://t.co/0lVjTt5MfG</a></p>— Abi Wilkinson (@AbiWilks) <a href="https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/860488910476070912">5 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Theresa May has played a blinder here, making the council elections about Brexit. It has distorted the results in the Tories' favour.
 
There has hardly been any change in the Labour vote. Tory vote has simply been boosted by it becoming Tory/UKIP/BNP/EDL vote platform
 
There has hardly been any change in the Labour vote. Tory vote has simply been boosted by it becoming Tory/UKIP/BNP/EDL vote platform


May said she was trying to lose the Nasty Party tag and yet has absorbed this lot.

#BLUKIP
 
The Projected National Share is something like 38% Con and 29% Labour

Far cry from Yougov polls of 48% vs 24%

BBC Psephologist Professor Curtice only talking of a 40 seat Tory majority

I reckon with tactical voting from a Progressive Alliance the Tories can be seen off

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Political scientist John Curtice offers a rallying cry to Labour activists... <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GE2017?src=hash">#GE2017</a> is not done and dusted, there's a vital fight to come! <a href="https://t.co/RhTXIBnrqK">pic.twitter.com/RhTXIBnrqK</a></p>— I was a JSA claimant (@imajsaclaimant) <a href="https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/860586634986782721">May 5, 2017</a></blockquote>
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The Projected National Share is something like 38% Con and 29% Labour

Far cry from Yougov polls of 48% vs 24%

BBC Psephologist Professor Curtice only talking of a 40 seat Tory majority

I reckon with tactical voting from a Progressive Alliance the Tories can be seen off

Thought you didn't trust the MSM? ;-)

The polls always tighten during GE campaigns.

Projected LD support is 18% nationally - perhaps 25 seats and a larger pool of MPs to choose a more credible leader from.
 
A question that no tv or radio interviewer seems to want to put to Theresa May. She keeps repeating over and over ad nauseum the soundbite that she wants to " ... get the best deal for Britain ..". And the gullible masses keep lapping it up. Do these blinkered supporters actually believe that any decent politician from any of the major parties wants to get a bad deal for Britain? Why don't the tv and radio interviewers pose this simple question to Mrs. May?

And why are they not pressing hard for Theresa May to take part in tv debates with Corbyn or other party leaders? Corbyn says he'll only take part if May does so too. But May is afraid that she'll be found out if she does - because unlike PMQ's in Parliament, she will have to answer the questions put to her!
 
This Guardian journalist John Harris goes around the Country doing vox pops in Northern towns (usually he edits them to only include some semi-literate fool who says rubbish like "I'm racist. I hate Corbyn") but somehow one good vox pop made it through the censorship process

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn">@jeremycorbyn</a> The Tin Man, righteous resident of Redruth, Cornwall, on what's wrong with politics*<a href="https://t.co/IUDKogWd1X">pic.twitter.com/IUDKogWd1X</a></p>— #JC4PM (@Corbyn_Power) <a href="https://twitter.com/Corbyn_Power/status/860551498341724160">5 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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And why are they not pressing hard for Theresa May to take part in tv debates with Corbyn or other party leaders? Corbyn says he'll only take part if May does so too. But May is afraid that she'll be found out if she does - because unlike PMQ's in Parliament, she will have to answer the questions put to her!

Because she can't think on her feet.

Neither can Corbyn, but Farron can so the Tories can only lose out by holding such a debate. If Cameron was still PM it would be different, because he could think on his feet. But the Tories don't need the debate in order to win the GE so they won't play ball.
 
Because she can't think on her feet.

Neither can Corbyn, but Farron can so the Tories can only lose out by holding such a debate. If Cameron was still PM it would be different, because he could think on his feet. But the Tories don't need the debate in order to win the GE so they won't play ball.
That's true.

However, surely it's the job of the broadcasters to keep pushing and pushing until the Tories have no option but to have Theresa May take part in debates.

But then again, considering that the negative views about Corbyn have a heck of a lot to do with MSM, then I guess it's not surprising they are not pushing.
 
My local MP is an anti-Corbyn Blairite with a relatively small majority. The constituency is roughly evenly split between the traditional working class urban areas and the surrounding countryside with small villages and hamlets that are the epitome of Tory heartlands.

I'm thinking of going to the next public Q&A session of the MP and asking him why I should vote for him considering that he, together with other anti-Corbynites, is the reason why Labour is so split, and he's likely to keep on going stabbing Corbyn in the back.

If he attempts to give wishy washy answers, I'm just going to say to him that, unless he backs his party leader, I'll be casting my vote to ensure he doesn't get re-elected.

I wonder what his response will be.
 
Now Labour comes out with a plan to tax people who earn more than £80k to fund their socialist spending. £80k is not significant in certain areas of the city and frankly is not a lot of money. Why could he not go with something sensible, e.g. The 1p increase from the Lib Dems? Why should you be taxed more for being successful?
 
Now Labour comes out with a plan to tax people who earn more than £80k to fund their socialist spending. £80k is not significant in certain areas of the city and frankly is not a lot of money. Why could he not go with something sensible, e.g. The 1p increase from the Lib Dems? Why should you be taxed more for being successful?

The idea is that the strong support the weak.
 
The idea is that the strong support the weak.
Someone making 80k is probably not using the NHS, social housing or public schools anyway. Why not charge them for using these services? Having a blanket rule taxing people for doing well doesn't help.
 
I think it's a clever policy from Labour. They know that £80k+ earners will typical vote for the Tories anyway, so there are no votes for them to lose there. I view this as an offer to the £20-£50k "middle earners" that their taxes will not be increased under a Labour government, which is a pleasant surprise - as a middle earning household, I was fully expecting our income to reduce in the event of a Corbyn-McDonnell government: not anymore.
 
I think it's a clever policy from Labour. They know that £80k+ earners will typical vote for the Tories anyway, so there are no votes for them to lose there. I view this as an offer to the £20-£50k "middle earners" that their taxes will not be increased under a Labour government, which is a pleasant surprise - as a middle earning household, I was fully expecting our income to reduce in the event of a Corbyn-McDonnell government: not anymore.

It definitely is an attractive offer for middle income earners. What I dislike about this proposal from Labour again, is their failure to define the quantum of the increase? There is no clarity if it will be 1,2 or 10%. His ability to alienate a section of the population as they don't want to vote for him is nauseating
 
Someone making 80k is probably not using the NHS, social housing or public schools anyway. Why not charge them for using these services? Having a blanket rule taxing people for doing well doesn't help.

80k gross = approximately £4500 per month in hand.

private schools = one child approximately £1200 per month

Private Health insurance for family of four = £300//£500per month depending upon claims etc etc

Then you have a mortgage or rent to pay on top of all the other usual expenses like travel/car/food/heating and water etc etc etc

I would say that most people on £80k would be sending their kids to government schools and using the NHS.

I'm a conservative by nature. I buy into the dream that if you work hard you can achieve great things. But what's the point in working hard if you can make £2000 per month earning £40k instead of £2500 earning £55k.
Simplistic examples I know.

Another reason for why I wouldn't vote Labour is the amount of money they waste. Social care, NHS, transport etc etc.. they think that buy setting up committees, creating red tape and throwing hundreds of millions of pounds into it will somehow solve the problems.
 
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80k gross = approximately £4500 per month in hand.

private schools = one child approximately £1200 per month

Private Health insurance for family of four = £300//£500per month depending upon claims etc etc

Then you have a mortgage or rent to pay on top of all the other usual expenses like travel/car/food/heating and water etc etc etc

I would say that most people on £80k would be sending their kids to government schools and using the NHS.

I'm a conservative by nature. I buy into the dream that if you work hard you can achieve great things. But what's the point in working hard if you can make £2000 per month earning £40k instead of £2500 earning £55k.
Simplistic examples I know.

Another reason for why I wouldn't vote Labour is the amount of money they waste. Social care, NHS, transport etc etc.. they think that buy setting up committees, creating red tape and throwing hundreds of millions of pounds into it will somehow solve the problems.

The problem with socialist is they eventually run out of other people's money.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Must watch: That man does it again.... <a href="https://t.co/UARn94itE6">pic.twitter.com/UARn94itE6</a></p>— #EL4C (@EL4JC) <a href="https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/861654748633714688">8 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Today Jeremy Corbyn was in Tory Worcester and Tory Leamington Spa yet crowds still turn up to see him

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But Torres will still win. It's matter of whether labour can keep its current number of seats. If they do, it's sort of an achievement.
 
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Ladies and Gentlemen the next Prime Minister

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"We've amended a draft document" says <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn">@jeremycorbyn</a>. Labour will present <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GE2017?src=hash">#GE2017</a> manifesto in the next few days <a href="https://t.co/77qW3M816e">https://t.co/77qW3M816e</a> <a href="https://t.co/q1OkyY4t35">pic.twitter.com/q1OkyY4t35</a></p>— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/862683704111452160">11 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Theresa May went to the North-east today with the BBC/Establishment narrative being she was going to appeal to the 'working classes abandoned by Corbyn'

didn't go well...

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Theresa May tried to sneak out the back door in Tynemouth just this very moment. She didn't bank on this happening <a href="https://t.co/IuQm7hwadX">pic.twitter.com/IuQm7hwadX</a></p>— Eoin (@LabourEoin) <a href="https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/863056767936335876">12 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Meanwhile Corbyn went to the Foreign Policy think tank Chatham House to give a highly acclaimed speech talking about ethical foreign policy and not holding hands with Trump

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I met <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn">@jeremycorbyn</a> today, and explained why bare of us don't vote. I forgot to ask for a pic, so here's one I borrowed &#55357;&#56568; <a href="https://t.co/9X62jU8pQg">pic.twitter.com/9X62jU8pQg</a></p>— Jme (@JmeBBK) <a href="https://twitter.com/JmeBBK/status/863777528288247808">14 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Some stars emerging on the campaign trail from amongst Corbyn's shadow cabinet

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you haven't seen this interview that <a href="https://twitter.com/SarahChampionMP">@SarahChampionMP</a> gave then you are missing something. Please watch and share <a href="https://t.co/bKNllWrTe0">pic.twitter.com/bKNllWrTe0</a></p>— Labour Left (@LabourLeft) <a href="https://twitter.com/LabourLeft/status/862381754761478144">10 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Barry Gardiner has been smashing up TV presenters for weeks

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Barry “The People’s” Gardiner tells the truth about Britain’s media <a href="https://t.co/5MzB9ffPGE">pic.twitter.com/5MzB9ffPGE</a></p>— Novara Media (@novaramedia) <a href="https://twitter.com/novaramedia/status/855010352601452544">20 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight">@BBCNewsnight</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/BarryGardiner">@BarryGardiner</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/UKLabour">@uklabour</a> should put out the last minute as a Party Political Broadcast by itself <a href="https://t.co/5OO6Me5weY">pic.twitter.com/5OO6Me5weY</a></p>— Jolyon #JC4PM (@TheBirmingham6) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/862958361653989376">12 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yesterday we launched our <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GE2017?src=hash">#GE2017</a> crowdfund - and you've already given £50,000! We can do this - <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/forthemany?src=hash">#forthemany</a> <a href="https://t.co/CiUj4TzORC">https://t.co/CiUj4TzORC</a> <a href="https://t.co/fn5tf4tJKP">pic.twitter.com/fn5tf4tJKP</a></p>— Momentum (@PeoplesMomentum) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/863730213972299777">14 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">20 years on from 1997, I'm joining Gordon Brown again to campaign for Labour. Here's why, in Gordon's words. <br>May's worse than Thatcher. <a href="https://t.co/haL0giZaaS">pic.twitter.com/haL0giZaaS</a></p>— John Prescott (@johnprescott) <a href="https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status/863295776583282689">13 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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A Tory on why he won't vote Conservative again

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Corbyn in Leeds and Hebden Bridge today

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Unbelievably massive crowds for Corbyn at my old haunt of the Brudenell Social Club in Leeds. Big student area with a slim Lib Dem majority <a href="https://t.co/UIPy6Oe6Y5">pic.twitter.com/UIPy6Oe6Y5</a></p>— Arj Singh (@singharj) <a href="https://twitter.com/singharj/status/864137505519652865">15 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Even seasoned journalists seem stunned by his pulling power. It's like the visit of a rockstar

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEWS: Thousands of people - many students - have turned out at Brudenell Social Club where Jeremy Corbyn is due. Full story at 6 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnTheAire?src=hash">#OnTheAire</a>. <a href="https://t.co/IaT55i2Ld0">pic.twitter.com/IaT55i2Ld0</a></p>— Made in Leeds TV (@madeinleeds) <a href="https://twitter.com/madeinleeds/status/864137660910247936">15 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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I don't think the gamble will fail. May's objective was to gain a significantly increased parliamentary majority (at least another 50 seats) to make passing legislation a relative breeze, and she will more than likely deliver on this objective.

May will win and increase the Tory majority.

SNP have a strong incumbency factor running in Scotland and they are bound to lose quite a few of their seats! This is especially true since people are worried about a second referundum when the North - East Oil money has virtually dried up, the Tories will spring a surprise in Scotland.

Labour fought their best campaign under Ed Miliband and lost to the incumbent Cameron. Now the odds are heavily against them, no one trusts Corbyn to run a country, and with the likes of Diane Abbot creating gaffes every week people see Labour as a joke now.

Lib Dems and UKIP are dying, they will realize this next month.

Brexit is happening and only Teresa May looks prepared for it.
 
The big student cities in the North (Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester) will definitely go Red. I lived in Leeds for six years and the young population were crying out for a Corbyn-style politician.

Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) and Nick Clegg (Sheffield Hallam) are at significant risk of losing their seats.
 
The big student cities in the North (Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester) will definitely go Red. I lived in Leeds for six years and the young population were crying out for a Corbyn-style politician.

Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) and Nick Clegg (Sheffield Hallam) are at significant risk of losing their seats.
But it will need the young (who are much more pro Corbyn as well being more Remain than Brexit) actually registering and then going out to vote. Unfortunately the exams and exam preparations will take priority for most.

But regardless, the demographic/breakdown I presented in the OP may still be accurate.
 
But it will need the young (who are much more pro Corbyn as well being more Remain than Brexit) actually registering and then going out to vote. Unfortunately the exams and exam preparations will take priority for most.

But regardless, the demographic/breakdown I presented in the OP may still be accurate.

Timing for students is a bit better this time. Usually elections are in May which is definitely peak period for essay hand-ins, revision and exams. But by June 8th this will be done & dusted for many students.
 
Corbyn lives in cuckoo land where the state pays out for everything and people can lead a happy life on the dole! He's never been able to provide a legit answer as to where the money will come from?

High time the welfare state is killed off.
 
Or maybe you're so biased you don't listen to the answers that have been given. Labour have been quite clear majority of funding for proposals comes from reversing Corporation Tax cuts under the Tories which amounts to £60-75bn over the lifetime of the Parliament.
 
Not sure I agree with renationalising the railways. Private train companies compete with each other to raise standards. For all the negativity one sees in the press about the trains, Virgin East Coast, Transpennine and Grand Central are pretty decent.
 
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Not sure I agree with renationalising the railways. Private train companies compete with each other to raise standards. For all the negativity one sees in the press about the trains, Virgin East Coast, Transpennine and Grand Central are pretty decent.

I don't think they complete directly. If you want to get the 6.46 to Waterloo, you won't have a choice of carrier. You'll get on whatever pulls in at that time.

South West Trains have always been good compared to BR as I recall them. But Southern have often been awful when I have had the misfortune to use them, and I would go with Sadiq Khan's plan to take them under the aegis of TFL.

So I wouldn't renationalise on ideological grounds like Corbyn wants to. I would keep the effective privatised services and nationalise the ineffective ones.
 
Lib Dems and UKIP are dying, they will realize this next month.

Brexit is happening and only Teresa May looks prepared for it.

There was a LD bounce in the polls but it seems to have dropped back. I think the problem is that Farron does not look any more like a PM than Corbyn. He is also too nuanced in his message. "We will give a second referendum where you can vote either to accept the Government's deal or reject it and stay in the EU". What's that? - people are confused by info overload and fake news these days, so they go with emotional decisions, which is why the robotic "Strong and stable" is so effective - it makes people feel safe, feel trust. Also, the 48% are really more like a 24% now as many Remainers now accept Brexit as unturnable. Plenty of the 24% will vote Lib Dem but in the cities they will not be enough to translate into seats as big Labour votes will not be overcome.

UKIP are over. They lost every one of the Council seats they defended on 4 May and have no MPs.

May is not prepared for Brexit. It will take eight or ten years to negotiate a deal, not two. There will be some sort of interim deal like Norway has after we leave and before the final deal is agreed.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I've never seen crowds for a politician like this since 1997 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GE2017?src=hash">#GE2017</a> <a href="https://t.co/qGAHsEQqCA">pic.twitter.com/qGAHsEQqCA</a></p>— John Prescott (@johnprescott) <a href="https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status/864215031545724929">15 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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May is not prepared for Brexit. It will take eight or ten years to negotiate a deal, not two. There will be some sort of interim deal like Norway has after we leave and before the final deal is agreed.
That's the only reason she's gone for the election now. Because by late 2018 onwards it will start becoming clear what Brexit really means, and how the Bexiteers will not get what they thought they were voting for, whilst at the same time the negatives of Brexit will start hitting the economy.

Furthermore, May and the Tories thought they could do the Brexit negotiations behind closed doors, and only present them to the UK Parliament and the British public as a fait accompli.

But that is not going to be the case as the EU have indicated. The EU negotiators have to satify each and every one of the 26 other EU governments and 26 EU parliaments or else there's no deal. That's why the negotiations will have to be transparent since it will be impossible to keep it all quiet.

Mrs. May and the Tories are going to have to cope with the fact that we're going to get a running commentary of each and every step and move in the negotiations.
 
I don't think they complete directly. If you want to get the 6.46 to Waterloo, you won't have a choice of carrier. You'll get on whatever pulls in at that time.

South West Trains have always been good compared to BR as I recall them. But Southern have often been awful when I have had the misfortune to use them, and I would go with Sadiq Khan's plan to take them under the aegis of TFL.

So I wouldn't renationalise on ideological grounds like Corbyn wants to. I would keep the effective privatised services and nationalise the ineffective ones.
Most of the UK rail companies are wholly or part owned by German, French, Italian, Spanish etc. state companies anyway. So if the German, French, Italian, Spanish etc. governments can own the British rail companies and cream off the profits, then why can't the UK goverment do that instead of them?

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http://www.cityam.com/256824/owns-uks-railways-well-not-british-firms-many-cases
 
There was a LD bounce in the polls but it seems to have dropped back. I think the problem is that Farron does not look any more like a PM than Corbyn. He is also too nuanced in his message. "We will give a second referendum where you can vote either to accept the Government's deal or reject it and stay in the EU". What's that? - people are confused by info overload and fake news these days, so they go with emotional decisions, which is why the robotic "Strong and stable" is so effective - it makes people feel safe, feel trust. Also, the 48% are really more like a 24% now as many Remainers now accept Brexit as unturnable. Plenty of the 24% will vote Lib Dem but in the cities they will not be enough to translate into seats as big Labour votes will not be overcome.

The Lib Dems have nothing to lose and Tim Farron knows this too well. They are staring at political extinction and as a strategy whats Farron is doing makes sense. The Lib Dems can save themselves from insignificance by targeting the one half that voted to remain instead of chasing the whole country. Keeps crying that if you want to remain a part of the single market simply vote for the Lib Dems, who, how, when......nah, absoloutley no credible information but simply vote for us and wewill stick to the UK.

The Lib Dems live in denial, but the country has moved on!



May is not prepared for Brexit. It will take eight or ten years to negotiate a deal, not two. There will be some sort of interim deal like Norway has after we leave and before the final deal is agreed.

May is prepared for Brexit because if push comes to shove she will tell the EU where to stick it!

Neither the EU or the UK are prepared for Brexit. There is nothing beauracrats fear more than a revolution, they lose what they hold most valuable, Control! EU cannot see Brexit become a success, they have been honest about this. At the same time they also understand the economic implications of trade barriers with the UK, just like we do.

May understands trading by WTO rules is not that bad compared to bending over backwards for the EU. It will be tough but WTO rules will be quickly set up as Europe and UK cannot afford not to trade with each other, it will make the likes of Ireland bankrupt overnight.

Free trade is good, but how high a price does one have to pay for this?! The only political leader who understands this right nowis Teresa May.
 
The Lib Dems have nothing to lose and Tim Farron knows this too well. They are staring at political extinction and as a strategy whats Farron is doing makes sense. The Lib Dems can save themselves from insignificance by targeting the one half that voted to remain instead of chasing the whole country. Keeps crying that if you want to remain a part of the single market simply vote for the Lib Dems, who, how, when......nah, absoloutley no credible information but simply vote for us and wewill stick to the UK.

It would take a lot to kill off British Liberalism - they have been down to four MPs, and come back to around sixty.

But Farron's strategy isn't working because they are making it too complex. They should be saying "Vote for us to remain in the EU" instead of being nice to the 52% who call them Illiberal Undemocrats.


May is prepared for Brexit because if push comes to shove she will tell the EU where to stick it!

Neither the EU or the UK are prepared for Brexit. There is nothing beauracrats fear more than a revolution, they lose what they hold most valuable, Control! EU cannot see Brexit become a success, they have been honest about this. At the same time they also understand the economic implications of trade barriers with the UK, just like we do.

May understands trading by WTO rules is not that bad compared to bending over backwards for the EU.

Not bad for the rich people of Britain but everyone else will suffer as companies go bust. Manufacturing firms will just move to Rotterdam. The merchant banks are already transferring staff to Paris and Dublin. They have to secure some sort of single market access deal to avoid more unemployment and more pverty in the short to medium term.
 
Not bad for the rich people of Britain but everyone else will suffer as companies go bust. Manufacturing firms will just move to Rotterdam. The merchant banks are already transferring staff to Paris and Dublin. They have to secure some sort of single market access deal to avoid more unemployment and more pverty in the short to medium term.

The Financial sector is simply laying off staff because they have an excuse at hand, Brexit! Services sector will be the least affected as they are not tied down by trade boundaries necessarily! Plus I do not understand the shortage to talent concept in London in the wake of Brexit!. Any company in the Uk can hire anyone from any part of the world, as long as they pay the necessary wages!

The biggest challenge in the trade negotiations will be the manufacturing and agricultural sectors. But UK is a net importer! EU stands to suffer a lot of damage as well if they lay down trade barriers.

The Conservatives understand this, Labour on the other hand is busy dreaming up a Socialist cuckoo land where the state baby sits its population!
 
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The biggest challenge in the trade negotiations will be the manufacturing and agricultural sectors. But UK is a net importer! EU stands to suffer a lot of damage as well if they lay down trade barriers.
This is where the logic of the Brexiteers falls down.

The EU (without the UK) has a population of over 650 million. The UK has a population of around 65 million.

44% of UK exports (around £240 billion) go to the EU. The UK imports around £300 billion from the EU.

Sounds as if the effects on both sides will be about even eh?

But now for the details.

Exports to the rest of the EU are worth about 13% of the UK’s economy, and exports from other EU countries to the UK are worth about 3%-4% of the value of those countries’ economies taken as a whole. And even that 3%-4% is spread amongst 26 countries.
 
Grime4Corbyn is trending on twitter

A demographic no political party has reached before.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/Aiannucci">@Aiannucci</a> <a href="https://t.co/02gsXJ9aWw">pic.twitter.com/02gsXJ9aWw</a></p>— Jolyon #JC4PM (@TheBirmingham6) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/863895193942188032">14 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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This is where the logic of the Brexiteers falls down.

The EU (without the UK) has a population of over 650 million. The UK has a population of around 65 million.

44% of UK exports (around £240 billion) go to the EU. The UK imports around £300 billion from the EU.

Sounds as if the effects on both sides will be about even eh?

But now for the details.

Exports to the rest of the EU are worth about 13% of the UK’s economy, and exports from other EU countries to the UK are worth about 3%-4% of the value of those countries’ economies taken as a whole. And even that 3%-4% is spread amongst 26 countries.

The first stupidity of this argument is taking the EU as a single economy, they are each individual countries with different needs from the Brexit deal!

The eastern bloc wants free entry for its labour force, Germany wants to export white goods, France wine and Spain agricultural produce! So they are all holding individual priorities, If EU was really one Germany and Greece wouldn't be poles apart.

All of them ship more out to the UK than we sell them except for Ireland!

Our largest exports are in the service sector, IT, Financial services, Telecoms etc, and it is very difficult to regulate them with trade barriers.

With a more relaxed pound the EU would not dare tax UK production, industrial or agricultural. If they do that the first economy to take a hit would be Germany, with a net trade deficit of more than 25 billion, zze zerman industry's biggest market is Britain! A weak pound cant take a 10-15% duty hit at the border, not sure if the German big three can do the same.

EU needs free trade with Britain as much as we do, its a fact and they know it even if they are too stuck up to admit it!
 
The Financial sector is simply laying off staff because they have an excuse at hand, Brexit! Services sector will be the least affected as they are not tied down by trade boundaries necessarily! Plus I do not understand the shortage to talent concept in London in the wake of Brexit!. Any company in the Uk can hire anyone from any part of the world, as long as they pay the necessary wages!

No, they are actually moving staff to Paris and Dublin. The issue is of 'passporting' of freedom of capital and services across the EU. The big American banks fear they will get locked out of the market by hard Brexit.

The biggest challenge in the trade negotiations will be the manufacturing and agricultural sectors. But UK is a net importer! EU stands to suffer a lot of damage as well if they lay down trade barriers.
Hmm, the UK economy is small compared to the EU. A lot of German and French car manufacturers clearly don't want hard Brexit. But the Govt must have agreed to cover the shortfall in profit for Nissan's Sunderland plant.
 
May understands trading by WTO rules is not that bad compared to bending over backwards for the EU. It will be tough but WTO rules will be quickly set up as Europe and UK cannot afford not to trade with each other, it will make the likes of Ireland bankrupt overnight.

That is not backed up by any credible economic institution. To quote the CBI, any limited advantages of relying on WTO rules are easily outweighed by the significant costs to the economy as a whole.

Let's discuss the non-tariff barriers for a moment. Leaving the EU and abandoning a common regulatory agenda will means British businesses could face new barriers to trade such as burdensome customs procedures, discriminatory tax rules and practices, duplicate technical regulations, standards and conformity assessment procedures, sanitary and phytosanitary measures and barriers to FDI.

By leaving the EU we also lose a means for settling disputes, whereby firms can go to the European Commission or ECJ. WTO dispute settlement is far more cumbersome and inefficient.

By crashing out of the EU without a deal, the UK would no longer have any other trade agreements because its agreements with other countries are negotiated through the EU ! We are going to spend DECADES trying to renegotiate dozens of trade deals around the world with the likes of Colombia, South Africa, Mexico, Norway etc with companies facing uncertainty and dislocation.

The UK lacks the capacity and expertise needed to do this as swiftly as possible. The UK hasn't negotiated a bilateral trade deal in 40 years - we've done it through the European Commission ! And FTAs have become increasingly complex over time. The UK is a substantially smaller market with less to offer to potential partners in negotiations than the EU, which alone contributes a quarter of world GDP so stop with these fantastical delusions about all this negotiating leverage we have.

Its back of the queue time for us, whilst the same working-class Brexit voters who thought they voted for a bright and prosperous future are going to be the worst hit.
 
Labour leaking the manifesto was a masterstroke. It's hard to see them coming back into power, but surely if the message can get out that the reforms will benefit the working class people, then it they should be able to tap into their traditional vote base? May's probably done the right thing by calling an early election, because when ordinary Joe Public realises that the immigration rhetoric was scaremongering to get the wavering votes, they will start drifting back to labour in numbers.
 
Labour gaining in the polls (14 point lead for Tories is similar to Clinton lead over Trump!)

Given a televised debate between Corbyn and May I'd be v.positive on a Labour majority

As it is I think getting the Don't Vote category mobilised + Progressive Alliance will be enough for a major Tory FAIL upcoming

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Westminster voting intention:<br><br>CON: 47% (-1)<br>LAB: 33% (+2)<br>LDEM: 7% (-1)<br>UKIP: 5% (-)<br>GRN: 3% (+1)<br><br>(via <a href="https://twitter.com/PanelbaseMD">@PanelbaseMD</a> / 12 - 15 May)</p>— Britain Elects (@britainelects) <a href="https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/864496035820908546">16 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Most of the UK rail companies are wholly or part owned by German, French, Italian, Spanish etc. state companies anyway. So if the German, French, Italian, Spanish etc. governments can own the British rail companies and cream off the profits, then why can't the UK goverment do that instead of them?


http://www.cityam.com/256824/owns-uks-railways-well-not-british-firms-many-cases

Interesting point [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION]. It seems like the Tories and NuLab before them are happy to have publicly owned railways as long as they are the public in other countries.

It could work as long as it is funded properly. But I could see the union wreckers wrecking it again.
 
The first stupidity of this argument is taking the EU as a single economy, they are each individual countries with different needs from the Brexit deal!

The eastern bloc wants free entry for its labour force, Germany wants to export white goods, France wine and Spain agricultural produce! So they are all holding individual priorities, If EU was really one Germany and Greece wouldn't be poles apart.

All of them ship more out to the UK than we sell them except for Ireland!

Our largest exports are in the service sector, IT, Financial services, Telecoms etc, and it is very difficult to regulate them with trade barriers.

With a more relaxed pound the EU would not dare tax UK production, industrial or agricultural. If they do that the first economy to take a hit would be Germany, with a net trade deficit of more than 25 billion, zze zerman industry's biggest market is Britain! A weak pound cant take a 10-15% duty hit at the border, not sure if the German big three can do the same.

EU needs free trade with Britain as much as we do, its a fact and they know it even if they are too stuck up to admit it!
Shows the extent of knowledge, or rather lack of, when someone responding to a post starts off by claiming that the opposing argument presented is 'stupid'.

Getting back to the main point however, it's typical of Brexiteers to initially claim that the UK imports more from the EU than it exports, and thus the EU will be hit equally hard, if not harder, than the UK if trade is affected. However, when this argument is countered by actual facts and details, they move the goalposts and suddenly the thrust of their argument changes.

So here, let me put it in simple terms for you to understand.

With approx 65 million and approx 680 million populations respectively, the UK businesses will immediately find it's free unfettered access to a potential customer base of 745 million (EU inc. UK) being reduced to 65 millions (UK only), whilst the EU businesses will see unfettered access to a customer base of 745 million reduced to 680 million potential customers (EU only). It doesn't take a genius to work out which side, overall, will be affected the most.
 
That is not backed up by any credible economic institution. To quote the CBI, any limited advantages of relying on WTO rules are easily outweighed by the significant costs to the economy as a whole.

Let's discuss the non-tariff barriers for a moment. Leaving the EU and abandoning a common regulatory agenda will means British businesses could face new barriers to trade such as burdensome customs procedures, discriminatory tax rules and practices, duplicate technical regulations, standards and conformity assessment procedures, sanitary and phytosanitary measures and barriers to FDI.

By leaving the EU we also lose a means for settling disputes, whereby firms can go to the European Commission or ECJ. WTO dispute settlement is far more cumbersome and inefficient.

By crashing out of the EU without a deal, the UK would no longer have any other trade agreements because its agreements with other countries are negotiated through the EU ! We are going to spend DECADES trying to renegotiate dozens of trade deals around the world with the likes of Colombia, South Africa, Mexico, Norway etc with companies facing uncertainty and dislocation.

That is incorrect, simply because EU takes forever to finalise trade deals thats is not the case with every other free country out there. The US-Jordan trade deal was signed after 4 months of negotiations and the US take One and a half years to conclude negotiations. EU on the other hand is a bureaucratic nightmare, just a single European entity can hold a deal to ransom as happened with the case of Canada.

Every single country out there negotiates trade deals, and UK is one of the largest economies in the world. In addition interim measures will simply follow existing regulations till new ones fall into place, we are not stepping out into the unknown, the fear mongering is baseless! Every country deserves to write its own destiny rather than have it decided by germany!


The UK lacks the capacity and expertise needed to do this as swiftly as possible. The UK hasn't negotiated a bilateral trade deal in 40 years - we've done it through the European Commission ! And FTAs have become increasingly complex over time. The UK is a substantially smaller market with less to offer to potential partners in negotiations than the EU, which alone contributes a quarter of world GDP so stop with these fantastical delusions about all this negotiating leverage we have.

Its back of the queue time for us, whilst the same working-class Brexit voters who thought they voted for a bright and prosperous future are going to be the worst hit.

That is a very very wrong assessment!

UK is one of the worlds largest markets....largets, importing over £50 BILLION every single month! No country in its right mind would not want to lose such an opportunity. This is not some floundering third world state we are talking about.

Everyone wants to trade with us and sell us stuff......that is our single biggest trump card! (no pun intended)

EU are the worst and slowest when it comes to trade negotiations. Neither are the bureaucrats leading the negotiations some sort of natural talent that have mastered the black-art of trade deals. Negotiations happen between teams who have the facts at hand and know what they want. We are not haggling in a market, each and every point would be reassessed a countless times before being finalized!


Shows the extent of knowledge, or rather lack of, when someone responding to a post starts off by claiming that the opposing argument presented is 'stupid'.

.................

With approx 65 million and approx 680 million populations respectively, the UK businesses will immediately find it's free unfettered access to a potential customer base of 745 million (EU inc. UK) being reduced to 65 millions (UK only), whilst the EU businesses will see unfettered access to a customer base of 745 million reduced to 680 million potential customers (EU only). It doesn't take a genius to work out which side, overall, will be affected the most.

I apologize for that statement.

An Eu deal gives you blanket access, Yes, but its a mistake thinking the whole EU wants the same thing.

We are negotiating with 27 entities, each of whom wants a different thing. Country to country every EU nation only benefits from trading with Britain as they are all net exporters. There is no whole of EU, Belgium alone held the Canada EU deal at ransom, each and every country wants its own thing.

Greece doesn't care if Germany is unable to ship its cars to the UK, Poland doesn't care want happens to Spanish agricultural exports, the Bulgarians, Czechs, Latvians prioritize free movement of labor and give two hoots about trade........each and every country wants its own thing.

So what exactly does the EU do........ignore us, not trade with us?! They can act the stiff upper lip on the media all they want, it plays well to their audience and the wrist slitter s in the UK. But they are desperate for this as much as we are.

The EU might note care for the 65 million strong market that the UK is, but France, Italy, Spain, Germany and every one of the individual 27 entities DO CARE! Its a massive market to each one of them and they will not let it go!
 
I apologize for that statement.

An Eu deal gives you blanket access, Yes, but its a mistake thinking the whole EU wants the same thing.

We are negotiating with 27 entities, each of whom wants a different thing. Country to country every EU nation only benefits from trading with Britain as they are all net exporters. There is no whole of EU, Belgium alone held the Canada EU deal at ransom, each and every country wants its own thing.

Greece doesn't care if Germany is unable to ship its cars to the UK, Poland doesn't care want happens to Spanish agricultural exports, the Bulgarians, Czechs, Latvians prioritize free movement of labor and give two hoots about trade........each and every country wants its own thing.

So what exactly does the EU do........ignore us, not trade with us?! They can act the stiff upper lip on the media all they want, it plays well to their audience and the wrist slitter s in the UK. But they are desperate for this as much as we are.

The EU might note care for the 65 million strong market that the UK is, but France, Italy, Spain, Germany and every one of the individual 27 entities DO CARE! Its a massive market to each one of them and they will not let it go!
You need to keep up with the news my friend.

EU national parliaments won't get Brexit trade deal veto after new ECJ ruling

The European Court of Justice agreed that the EU had powers to sign a wider range of agreements

The European Union’s 27 remaining national parliaments are unlikely to have the power of veto over a future Brexit trade deal with Britain, a new court judgment has indicated.

Ruling on an investment and trade deal between the EU and Singapore, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) said the EU maintains “exclusive competence” over areas ranging from foreign investment to intellectual property rights and environmental standards.

The ruling, which strips national parliaments of their assumed say on large parts of trade deals, could mean there are fewer chances for EU member states to hold up a trade deal between the EU and UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...parliaments-ecj-eu-uk-negotiate-a7739371.html

The effect of this ruling means that the EU negotiators will be empowered to take a wider overall view and try to safeguard the interests of the EU as a whole rather than be at the mercy of individual interests of each county of the type you mention, thus negating the argument you present.
 
Danny DeVito out for Corbyn

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">U.K. You've got the guy. Register by May 22nd. Vote for Jeremy Corbyn...show us how it's done!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/grime4corbyn?src=hash">#grime4corbyn</a></p>— Danny DeVito (@DannyDeVito) <a href="https://twitter.com/DannyDeVito/status/865369247219945472">19 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Corbyn calls out Chicken May again

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/theresa_may">@Theresa_May</a>, why not debate me? The public deserve to see a debate between the only two people who could form the next government. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GE2017?src=hash">#GE2017</a> <a href="https://t.co/dUNfmjj6Mu">pic.twitter.com/dUNfmjj6Mu</a></p>— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/865288235030904834">18 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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Corbyn calls out Chicken May again

Would have made more sense to have turned up to the debate anyway, and got his points across. Now, that would have been a more effective way to make her look chicken.
 
Shot in the dark / prediction time? (Seats)

Tories: 375
Labour: 205
SNP: 45
Lib Dems: 3
Greens: 2
Others: 20
UKIP: 0
 
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