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UKIP - what next? Instead of "Stop Immigrants" change policy to "Remove Immigrants"?

Yossarian

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UKIP - what next? Instead of "Stop Immigrants" change policy to "Remove Immigrants"?

Now that UKIP has achieved it's objective, and the whole reason for it's existence, what next for UKIP?
Change their Motto from "Stop Immigrants" to "Remove Immigrants"?
 
Remove who exactly and how far do you go to classify someone as immigrant and who is not an immigrant now?
10/20/50/100 years?

This is assuming "immigrants" have taken up the British Nationality, but then they are British surely and not immigrants. If they are still on visas then then offcourse easier to "remove" them as their stay is time dependant.

But then what do you to folks with Indefinite Leave to Remain?
 
The next step will be "Erm.... we might not be able to reduce immigration after all because....."
 
Remove who exactly and how far do you go to classify someone as immigrant and who is not an immigrant now?
10/20/50/100 years?

This is assuming "immigrants" have taken up the British Nationality, but then they are British surely and not immigrants. If they are still on visas then then offcourse easier to "remove" them as their stay is time dependant.

But then what do you to folks with Indefinite Leave to Remain?
Well if they had the intelligence to think that deeply, they'd have realised the ramifications of leaving.
 
Goes without saying that people who pose a threat should be removed.

People refusing to integrate and assimilate should also be removed.

Perhaps they can start by targeting illegal immigrants in the following areas - Eastham, Luton, Ilford, Bradford, Rotherham, etc...
 
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Fascism stalks the land.

This and will result in massive boost to extremist elements in the country and will be massive threat to rest of Europe.


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Fascism stalks the land.
You mean like this?
Goes without saying that people who pose a threat should be removed.

People refusing to integrate and assimilate should also be removed.

Perhaps they can start by targeting illegal immigrants in the following areas - Eastham, Luton, Ilford, Bradford, Rotherham, etc...
"Targeting" people? That type of language goes down well with the most extreme of extremist right-wingers.

What does 'integrate and assimilate' mean? Completely shed their ethnic culture, language, customs and pretend to be like the "Coopers"?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2h-t8vVi0zc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Goes without saying that people who pose a threat should be removed.

People refusing to integrate and assimilate should also be removed.

Perhaps they can start by targeting illegal immigrants in the following areas - Eastham, Luton, Ilford, Bradford, Rotherham, etc...

Where do you deport white Bnp little Englanders who refuse to integrate to and can barely string a sentence of English and haven't worked for generations? Australias a sovereign nation now.

They are a security threat to the social cohesion of this nation
 
Goes without saying that people who pose a threat should be removed.

People refusing to integrate and assimilate should also be removed.

Perhaps they can start by targeting illegal immigrants in the following areas - Eastham, Luton, Ilford, Bradford, Rotherham, etc...

This guy sounds like ISIS. They "remove" guys who don't integrate in their utopia i.e. yazids, shia, sunnis and every sane person. Thankfully people can't buy guns that easily in UK.
 
Where do you deport white Bnp little Englanders who refuse to integrate to and can barely string a sentence of English and haven't worked for generations? Australias a sovereign nation now.

They are a security threat to the social cohesion of this nation

thats a tough one - in the past we would ship them off to Australia......now with the points system that may be a tad challenging....
 
This guy sounds like ISIS. They "remove" guys who don't integrate in their utopia i.e. yazids, shia, sunnis and every sane person. Thankfully people can't buy guns that easily in UK.

ISIS don't remove - they kill anyone who doesn't follow the way of life of the early muslims of 1400 years ago - there is a NOT so subtle and important difference - thanks for voicing your opinion anyway.
 
thats a tough one - in the past we would ship them off to Australia......now with the points system that may be a tad challenging....

There is no need to ship anyone. Just send people like you to their homeland. Britain doesn't need traitors dividing their country just because Muslamics can practice their religion.
 
ISIS don't remove - they kill anyone who doesn't follow the way of life of the early muslims of 1400 years ago - there is a NOT so subtle and important difference - thanks for voicing your opinion anyway.

Early Muslims were just doing what everyone did at time. Thankfully most of the world has moved on except some terrorists and wannabes. You should move on too.
 
You mean like this?
"Targeting" people? That type of language goes down well with the most extreme of extremist right-wingers.

What does 'integrate and assimilate' mean? Completely shed their ethnic culture, language, customs and pretend to be like the "Coopers"?

Not completely - but adjustment for sure in order be part of the rest of society.

Struggling with the search function on this forum - there was a thread not so long ago where Captain Rishi was advocating how wonderful areas like Eastham, Luton, Rotherham, etc were........worth a read if you can find it and continue this discussion there.
 
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This guy sounds like ISIS. They "remove" guys who don't integrate in their utopia i.e. yazids, shia, sunnis and every sane person. Thankfully people can't buy guns that easily in UK.
I'm sure if the type of policies he's advocating, and others like him who also believe in such policies, ever get to the stage of becoming reality then changing the laws, so that those with similar views as them being able to acquire guns, will also be on the agenda.
 
Not completely - but adjustment for sure in order be part of the rest of society.
Yeah, a few other nations have tried imposing something similar, such as Cambodia/Khmer Rouge, and another one in Europe a few decades further back ... you know the one... one of the creators of the forerunner to the EU, the Common Market.
 
Well may be too late as the train has already left the station certainly in Europe and now in the UK - one side is super tolerant namby pamby, too afraid to ruffle ANYONES feathers - while the other exemplifies the intolerant trying to live in the medieval age. It is a clash of civilisations.
 
Well may be too late as the train has already left the station certainly in Europe and now in the UK - one side is super tolerant namby pamby, too afraid to ruffle ANYONES feathers - while the other exemplifies the intolerant trying to live in the medieval age. It is a clash of civilisations.

Another ISIS like justification. ISIS also has two demsional view, with us or against us. Seems like Britian first supporters are pretty similar to ISIS fantasy wise. They both generalize people. I am sure those polish son and dad don't agree about this supposed tolerance. Xenophobes have basically hijacked the freedom movement and here we have spookie paaji misleading people about tolerance.
 
Another ISIS like justification. ISIS also has two demsional view, with us or against us. Seems like Britian first supporters are pretty similar to ISIS fantasy wise. They both generalize people. I am sure those polish son and dad don't agree about this supposed tolerance. Xenophobes have basically hijacked the freedom movement and here we have spookie paaji misleading people about tolerance.

Both are extremist why you are stating the obvious...I dont think these rightest are any better than ISIS at the moment they dont have chance to execute like ISIS do they will start it as soon as it is possible.

Honestly someone should help them educate and give them some jobs and meaning to life otherwise west is as extremist as Arabs and Asians.
 
Not completely - but adjustment for sure in order be part of the rest of society.

Struggling with the search function on this forum - there was a thread not so long ago where Captain Rishi was advocating how wonderful areas like Eastham, Luton, Rotherham, etc were........worth a read if you can find it and continue this discussion there.

I never said anything of the sort, but if you can find a quote and prove me wrong, I'll change my avatar to the one and only Bal Thackeray. Sound like a deal?

Yes I did do a thread on Southall and Wembley, two London towns where the whites fled wholesale as the Sikhs and Hindus poured in.
 
I never said anything of the sort, but if you can find a quote and prove me wrong, I'll change my avatar to the one and only Bal Thackeray. Sound like a deal?

Yes I did do a thread on Southall and Wembley, two London towns where the whites fled wholesale as the Sikhs and Hindus poured in.
Do some of these desi's, who appear to be further to the right than even the likes of the BNP and Britain First, think that just because they are espousing these BNP / Britain First like views they will be exempt from the xenophobia of the racist/fascist knuckle-draggers? If so, they'll be surprised to learn that unless they have north European skin tones and facial features, along with BBC accents, they are as likely to be racially abused as the rest of us.
 
Do some of these desi's, who appear to be further to the right than even the likes of the BNP and Britain First, think that just because they are espousing these BNP / Britain First like views they will be exempt from the xenophobia of the racist/fascist knuckle-draggers? If so, they'll be surprised to learn that unless they have north European skin tones and facial features, along with BBC accents, they are as likely to be racially abused as the rest of us.

If they really wanted to fit in as encouraged by the BNP or Britain First, they woudn't achieve those objectives by camping 24/7 on a Pakistani website.

I'd suggest try the Stormfront site instead, I'm sure they would be met with a friendly welcome there.
 
Do some of these desi's, who appear to be further to the right than even the likes of the BNP and Britain First, think that just because they are espousing these BNP / Britain First like views they will be exempt from the xenophobia of the racist/fascist knuckle-draggers? If so, they'll be surprised to learn that unless they have north European skin tones and facial features, along with BBC accents, they are as likely to be racially abused as the rest of us.

and your point is?
 
and your point is?

His point is pretty clear. Now how about you produce some quotes to back up your claims that I was advocating how wonderful areas like Eastham, Luton, Rotherham, etc were?

Really I never even heard of a place of Eastham so I would say these claims are highly suspicious.
 
His point is pretty clear. Now how about you produce some quotes to back up your claims that I was advocating how wonderful areas like Eastham, Luton, Rotherham, etc were?

Really I never even heard of a place of Eastham so I would say these claims are highly suspicious.

Don't expect an answer. If the Brexit thread is any proof; you won't get any answers.

Also interesting, the said poster claims to be of a Pakistani descent individual yet, in othr threads apparently, digs out Indian news links to argue his points.

What a waste of time.
 
Wasn't clear to me, care to explain? just curious.

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] - good to see that you pay close attention to my posts, must say you do seem royally ruffled lately :)

More like astounded at your posts and your lack of any common sense, which is only bettered by your lying and false sense of arrogance.
 
and your point is?
It's clear enough. Read it again. And if you're wondering if it's directed at the likes of you ... well that depends upon whether or not you fit the criteria stated. Going by your posts, you appear to meet the criteria regarding political views. But this being an anonymous internet forum, only you know whether you meet the criteria regarding skin tones, facial features and spoken accent.
 
It's clear enough. Read it again. And if you're wondering if it's directed at the likes of you ... well that depends upon whether or not you fit the criteria stated. Going by your posts, you appear to meet the criteria regarding political views. But this being an anonymous internet forum, only you know whether you meet the criteria regarding skin tones, facial features and spoken accent.

if you want to dish out insults then atleast have the guile to do so else its just futile & embarrassing.

just my 2p (now back at 2p) ;)
 
You want to take it as an insult, as opposed to ground realities? Does that mean you are of desi background, and don't have north European like skin tones & facial features as well as a BBC accent? ....but wait, you're a Pakistani of course, you've said so often enough. That is unless this thread has caused you to change your nationality/ethnicity?
 
anybody even remotely connected with terrorism needs to be deported from the west along with their families. terrorists have used the compassionate nature of the west to their advantage.
 
anybody even remotely connected with terrorism needs to be deported from the west along with their families. terrorists have used the compassionate nature of the west to their advantage.
Don't think there's many Polish terrorists roaming the streets of Britain currently. They're too busy working their socks off to support their families back home in Poland.
 
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Not completely - but adjustment for sure in order be part of the rest of society.

Struggling with the search function on this forum - there was a thread not so long ago where Captain Rishi was advocating how wonderful areas like Eastham, Luton, Rotherham, etc were........worth a read if you can find it and continue this discussion there.

Any luck here? Just imagine your success in seeing me with a Hindutva avatar. Can it happen? Over to you.
 
You want to take it as an insult, as opposed to ground realities? Does that mean you are of desi background, and don't have north European like skin tones & facial features as well as a BBC accent? ....but wait, you're a Pakistani of course, you've said so often enough. That is unless this thread has caused you to change your nationality/ethnicity?

There you go with your pointless gymnastics again....I assume you do t for kicks

Anyway - I stand by everything that I have said - have seen nothing that would convince me to even remotely consider changing my views. People like you and a handful others resort to personal insults, desperate and futile attempts to defame - ultimately you have failed to silence our voices.

Keep it coming - you're only fuelling the flame of truth. :)




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There you go with your pointless gymnastics again....I assume you do t for kicks

Anyway - I stand by everything that I have said - have seen nothing that would convince me to even remotely consider changing my views. People like you and a handful others resort to personal insults, desperate and futile attempts to defame - ultimately you have failed to silence our voices.

Keep it coming - you're only fuelling the flame of truth. :)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What cringe worthy post. As if you have changd everyone's convictions. Stop being emotional and get your guys in 21st century. Globalization is going to come whether xenophobes like it or not.
 
You want to take it as an insult, as opposed to ground realities? Does that mean you are of desi background, and don't have north European like skin tones & facial features as well as a BBC accent? ....but wait, you're a Pakistani of course, you've said so often enough. That is unless this thread has caused you to change your nationality/ethnicity?

He probably doesn't even live in UK. I don't know why else anyone would vote against his own interests.
 
Goes without saying that people who pose a threat should be removed.

People refusing to integrate and assimilate should also be removed.

Perhaps they can start by targeting illegal immigrants in the following areas - Eastham, Luton, Ilford, Bradford, Rotherham, etc...

I see you have now revealed your true colours here
 
There is no place for such neo nazi views on pp

I suggest those thinking of posting such revolting thoughts find another home on the Internet

We can and will always lend a helping hand for that &#55357;&#56841;
 
There is no place for such neo nazi views on pp

I suggest those thinking of posting such revolting thoughts find another home on the Internet

We can and will always lend a helping hand for that ��

Well deserved but there are others as well posting similar stuff just against a different religion and ethnicity in a more hidden manner hope that comes to notice as well.
 
There is no place for such neo nazi views on pp

I suggest those thinking of posting such revolting thoughts find another home on the Internet

We can and will always lend a helping hand for that ��
Completely agree. An individual of supposedly desi origins espousing Neo Nazi views whilst also claiming to live in the UK is akin to a Jewish person living in Germany during the late 30's/early 40's advocating the merits of joining the The National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei)
 
Well deserved but there are others as well posting similar stuff just against a different religion and ethnicity in a more hidden manner hope that comes to notice as well.

I think PP admin are pretty fair across the board when moderating the boards, I have had plenty of what were to my mind, perfectly reasonable posts removed. The line is generally drawn at what is clearly trolling and that can usually be traced back to either the OP or the first intentionally provocative reply.

In any case, feel free to report any posts which you feel are crossing the line. Most of these insidious folk will just sign up with another ID, but at least it gives them some extra work to get back in.
 
I think PP admin are pretty fair across the board when moderating the boards, I have had plenty of what were to my mind, perfectly reasonable posts removed. The line is generally drawn at what is clearly trolling and that can usually be traced back to either the OP or the first intentionally provocative reply.

In any case, feel free to report any posts which you feel are crossing the line. Most of these insidious folk will just sign up with another ID, but at least it gives them some extra work to get back in.

Agree the moderation in PP is one of the best out there but "the provocative reply" can be done from either side but considering the moderation rules it should be implied to the one replying as well as the trolls are not always from one side.
 
Completely agree. An individual of supposedly desi origins espousing Neo Nazi views whilst also claiming to live in the UK is akin to a Jewish person living in Germany during the late 30's/early 40's advocating the merits of joining the The National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei)

Not only this; but when I showed him, with links, the 108 racist incidents against mostly Asians his attitude was astonishing. Basically saying they deserve it. No desi I know would ever have responded like that.
 
Not only this; but when I showed him, with links, the 108 racist incidents against mostly Asians his attitude was astonishing. Basically saying they deserve it. No desi I know would ever have responded like that.
You'll be surprised. Large football size fruits on palm trees comes to mind.
 
I think PP admin are pretty fair across the board when moderating the boards, I have had plenty of what were to my mind, perfectly reasonable posts removed. The line is generally drawn at what is clearly trolling and that can usually be traced back to either the OP or the first intentionally provocative reply.

In any case, feel free to report any posts which you feel are crossing the line. Most of these insidious folk will just sign up with another ID, but at least it gives them some extra work to get back in.

Difficult to please all and also remember, lot of elbow grease needed to moderate forums which means we cant be everywhere ALL the time
 
I was thinking more along the lines of "...because we'll have to pay the plumber £150 to fit a new wash basin instead of £20.

I have enrolled on a DIY and plumbing course, be damned if I pay £150 to a beer swigging pot bellied tattooed chav who can barely speak English and turns up 2 hours late and is light fingered and won't give a receipt

Hell no
 
Frankly, and unfortunately, if the EU continues to refuse access to the European Economic Area without Freedom of Movement.....

....we will have to play hardball, and ask Poland's Donald Tusk whether he wants the 850,000 Poles to be deported gradually or in one hit. Likewise the 500,000 French.

I'm back in the UK currently, and while London has become dependent on Poles and Europeans in low wage unskilled jobs, the rest of the country wouldn't even notice.
 
Frankly, and unfortunately, if the EU continues to refuse access to the European Economic Area without Freedom of Movement.....

....we will have to play hardball, and ask Poland's Donald Tusk whether he wants the 850,000 Poles to be deported gradually or in one hit. Likewise the 500,000 French.

I'm back in the UK currently, and while London has become dependent on Poles and Europeans in low wage unskilled jobs, the rest of the country wouldn't even notice.

And those Bits working in the continent and those old retired farts in Spain and France what about them?

You will slink off to Oz ironically as an immigrant
 
Frankly, and unfortunately, if the EU continues to refuse access to the European Economic Area without Freedom of Movement.....

....we will have to play hardball, and ask Poland's Donald Tusk whether he wants the 850,000 Poles to be deported gradually or in one hit. Likewise the 500,000 French.

I'm back in the UK currently, and while London has become dependent on Poles and Europeans in low wage unskilled jobs, the rest of the country wouldn't even notice.

What nonsense.

Its in the EU rules, you either become a member or have an EEA agreement aka Norway and you will have to have freedom of movement. What the UK wants is all the benefits of an EU member, without having to follow any of its obligations. Its hogwash. And I don't know if you've been asleep, but the Leave campaign promised to end free movement, hence it should rule out EEA agreement. Which makes their lying and back-tracking all the more hilarious

Also remember, the 1.2 million UK workers in Europe who would be deported back to UK.
 
What nonsense.

Its in the EU rules, you either become a member or have an EEA agreement aka Norway and you will have to have freedom of movement. What the UK wants is all the benefits of an EU member, without having to follow any of its obligations. Its hogwash. And I don't know if you've been asleep, but the Leave campaign promised to end free movement, hence it should rule out EEA agreement. Which makes their lying and back-tracking all the more hilarious

Also remember, the 1.2 million UK workers in Europe who would be deported back to UK.

Actually, no.

We joined the European Economic Community, a free trade area, not the European Union.

Unelected and illegitimate bureaucrats like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk then moved the goalposts and introduced the arbitrary - and pointlessly self-destructive Four Freedoms - including the insane Freedom of Movement.

It makes zero sense that there should be mass migration of unskilled workers from the poor east and south to the rich north and west. It harms all four regions.

It is failing anyway. Frexit sentiment in France runs at 62% compared with 52% in the UK.

Either the EU can accept that the "More Europe" dream has failed, and negotiate pragmatically with the U.K., and create a tailored deal, or we play nasty with them.

And there are not 1.2 million UK workers in Europe. There are 150,000 retirees in France and Spsin, 200,000 dual nationals in the Republic of Ireland, and fewer than 50,000 British workers across the entire EU.
 
Actually, no.

We joined the European Economic Community, a free trade area, not the European Union.

Unelected and illegitimate bureaucrats like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk then moved the goalposts and introduced the arbitrary - and pointlessly self-destructive Four Freedoms - including the insane Freedom of Movement.

It makes zero sense that there should be mass migration of unskilled workers from the poor east and south to the rich north and west. It harms all four regions.

It is failing anyway. Frexit sentiment in France runs at 62% compared with 52% in the UK.

Either the EU can accept that the "More Europe" dream has failed, and negotiate pragmatically with the U.K., and create a tailored deal, or we play nasty with them.

And there are not 1.2 million UK workers in Europe. There are 150,000 retirees in France and Spsin, 200,000 dual nationals in the Republic of Ireland, and fewer than 50,000 British workers across the entire EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

1.2 million is correct.

Secondly, UK was indeed in the EU. By its own consent. So the rest of your post is simply nonsensical.

If the UK wanted to play hard, it could simply invoke Art 50 and leave. No reason to go EU begging for deals, if according to you, UK has all the leverage. So why doesn't it? How you think one country can bully a 27 nation alliance (which btw voted unanimously for no deal with UK unless it includes freedom of movement) is simply laughable. Pound has nosedived, companies are moving their HQs away from London, there is massive social division and these light bulbs want to play hard-ball. If the EU gives the UK a soft deal then it might as well cease to exist, as every disgruntled member would ask the same. You want access to a single market and all its advantages then play by that organisation's rule. UK is free to leave but then shouldn't still expect the same privileges.

A lot of garbage and propaganda in your post your friend Spookie has already posted, and it has already been addressed.

As for un-elected 'bureaucrats', its another myth. Every country elects MEPs, who then elect a leader in EU. Which is no different than how people are elected in any country. The House of Commons is un-elected, we might get someone ridiculous like Gove, all un-elected too. So save me the democracy speeches. The UK's mifortune was that the right-wing idiots first elected a BNP member and then a UKIP member as a MEP. Who had no real interest in representing UK.

What's more funny is you bashing immigrants. When you have South Asian ancestry, then went to UK and now is an immigrant in Australia.
 
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And those Bits working in the continent and those old retired farts in Spain and France what about them?

You will slink off to Oz ironically as an immigrant

What does it matter to him if the UK gets loaded with 1.2 million of its expats? He's comfortably in Australia.
 
What does it matter to him if the UK gets loaded with 1.2 million of its expats? He's comfortably in Australia.

Funny how the blood of the colonialists and imperialists has thinned from expansionism to inward looking peeps....

Oh the how the times have changed- the officers of the East India Company must be twitching in their graves in the Dhacca Cemetery
 
https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

1.2 million is correct.

Secondly, UK was indeed in the EU. By its own consent. So the rest of your post is simply nonsensical.

If the UK wanted to play hard, it could simply invoke Art 50 and leave. No reason to go EU begging for deals, if according to you, UK has all the leverage. So why doesn't it? How you think one country can bully a 27 nation alliance (which btw voted unanimously for no deal with UK unless it includes freedom of movement) is simply laughable. Pound has nosedived, companies are moving their HQs away from London, there is massive social division and these light bulbs want to play hard-ball. If the EU gives the UK a soft deal then it might as well cease to exist, as every disgruntled member would ask the same. You want access to a single market and all its advantages then play by that organisation's rule. UK is free to leave but then shouldn't still expect the same privileges.

A lot of garbage and propaganda in your post your friend Spookie has already posted, and it has already been addressed.

As for un-elected 'bureaucrats', its another myth. Every country elects MEPs, who then elect a leader in EU. Which is no different than how people are elected in any country. The House of Commons is un-elected, we might get someone ridiculous like Gove, all un-elected too. So save me the democracy speeches. The UK's mifortune was that the right-wing idiots first elected a BNP member and then a UKIP member as a MEP. Who had no real interest in representing UK.

What's more funny is you bashing immigrants. When you have South Asian ancestry, then went to UK and now is an immigrant in Australia.
Your figures almost precisely match mine.

The people in Spain and France are fully-funded retirees.

The people in Ireland are dual nationals who are really Irish, but who got UK passports under the Good Friday agreement.

There is no diaspora of British workers in the EU.

Like it or not, the almost 1.5 million Polish and French workers in the UK are now a bargaining chip.
 
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Your figures almost precisely match mine.

The people in Spain and France are fully-funded retirees.

The people in Ireland are dual nationals who are really Irish, but who got UK passports under the Good Friday agreement.

There is no diaspora of British workers in the EU.

Like it or not, the almost 1.5 million Polish and French workers in the UK are now a bargaining chip.

....retirees who'd have to come back and drain the NHS.

Yeah, no thanks.

Secondly, no, they are not a 'bargaining chip'. I am unsure if you know what 'unanimous' means, but it means that EVERY country (inc. Poland and France) flat out told the UK: freedom of movement + single market deal go hand in hand. To anyone else your bargaining-chip-theory would sound ridiculous in the face of the above EU decision. Hence there is no bargaining chip.

Again, if the UK had leverage it'd invoke Article 50 and leave the poor EU in a mess. The fact is it cannot, hence why good ol Boris like a true coward chickened out too. (Instead of posting outlandish theories, perhaps you ought to follow British politics to keep yourself up to date).

Whoever has the leverage gives out ultimatums. The EU has: no single market, no EEA type deal. A blunt ultimatum, and a fair one. You cannot expect to enjoy all the EU rights without following all the obligations which all other 27 nations do. Now, if the UK had any leverage, it would say sure EU we don't want or like your ultimatum, on your bike EU. Has it said that?

No.

Its like talking to Spookie again, and that is NOT a compliment. You are very educated, and one of my favorite posters here, so why you sound like a deluded UKIP member with the -rule-britania- tinted glasses, so far out of touch of reality, I do not know.
 
Frankly, and unfortunately, if the EU continues to refuse access to the European Economic Area without Freedom of Movement.....

....we will have to play hardball, and ask Poland's Donald Tusk whether he wants the 850,000 Poles to be deported gradually or in one hit. Likewise the 500,000 French.
What a load of rubbish.
I suggest you google "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969"

The status of treaty rights acquired while a treaty is in force, when that treaty comes to an end, was dealt with in a 2013 Parliamentary briefing, and is covered in much more detail by UN lawyers. A clarification has even been issued via a House of Commons Library note, which stated:

“Generally speaking, withdrawing from a treaty releases the parties from any future obligations to each other, but does not affect any rights or obligations acquired under it before withdrawal.”

The (1969) Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties is clear, in article 70.1.b it states that a termination of a treaty:

Does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”

To summarise, “acquired rights” – also known as “executed rights” or “vested rights” – do continue to apply to individuals. So firm are they embedded in the international order that they have acquired the status of “customary law”, which means the principle does not need to be anchored by any particularly treaty, but stands alone as a fundamental principle of international law.

So even if the EU and the UK fail to agree on Freedom of Movement, those persons who currently live in other EU member states can invoke the right to remain under the “freedom of movement” or “freedom of establishment” provisions of the treaties, and thus will be able to retain that “acquired right”. This applies equally to UK citizens living in the EU as well EU citizens living in the UK.
 
What does it matter to him if the UK gets loaded with 1.2 million of its expats? He's comfortably in Australia.

I'm in Australia because of my skills and training under a points based immigration system.

Skilled migration is great. Unskilled migration is stupid.

BTW I'm in Amsterdam as I write. And the prevailing view here seems to be that if the EU is punitive to the UK, Nexit will become a certainty.
 
I'm in Australia because of my skills and training under a points based immigration system.

Skilled migration is great. Unskilled migration is stupid.

BTW I'm in Amsterdam as I write. And the prevailing view here seems to be that if the EU is punitive to the UK, Nexit will become a certainty.

Asking the UK to follow certain rules like everyone else is not punitive, so the prevailing view is a fantasy. Plus Netherlands was also in the unanimous decision. I wrote above, more countries breaking is a very slim chance. They're mostly pro-EU. The UK is very anti-EU, and even then it barely won the Leave vote. If the other nations were like or even similar to UK then their leaders would have made plenty of anti-EU noises to satisfy their electorate, like Cameron has since 2010 and that hasn't happened or their electorate would have forced the leaders to hold referendums.

If 27 other nations follow the same rules, there is no reason why the UK should be special. And if the UK feels that's unfair then simply invoke Art.50.
 
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Asking the UK to follow certain rules like everyone else is not punitive, so the prevailing view is a fantasy. Plus Netherlands was also in the unanimous decision. I wrote above, more countries breaking is a very slim chance. They're mostly pro-EU. The UK is very anti-EU, and even then it barely won the Leave vote. If the other nations were like or even similar to UK then their leaders would have made plenty of anti-EU noises to satisfy their electorate, like Cameron has since 2010.

If 27 other nations follow the same rules, there is no reason why the UK should be special. And if the UK feels that's unfair then simply invoke Art.50.
Just point these ignorant one to post #63 above.
 
What a load of rubbish.
I suggest you google "Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969"

The status of treaty rights acquired while a treaty is in force, when that treaty comes to an end, was dealt with in a 2013 Parliamentary briefing, and is covered in much more detail by UN lawyers. A clarification has even been issued via a House of Commons Library note, which stated:

“Generally speaking, withdrawing from a treaty releases the parties from any future obligations to each other, but does not affect any rights or obligations acquired under it before withdrawal.”

The (1969) Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties is clear, in article 70.1.b it states that a termination of a treaty:

Does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”

To summarise, “acquired rights” – also known as “executed rights” or “vested rights” – do continue to apply to individuals. So firm are they embedded in the international order that they have acquired the status of “customary law”, which means the principle does not need to be anchored by any particularly treaty, but stands alone as a fundamental principle of international law.

So even if the EU and the UK fail to agree on Freedom of Movement, those persons who currently live in other EU member states can invoke the right to remain under the “freedom of movement” or “freedom of establishment” provisions of the treaties, and thus will be able to retain that “acquired right”. This applies equally to UK citizens living in the EU as well EU citizens living in the UK.

If there is anything you should know by now its that Leavers having any knowledge of facts or laws is a misplaced fantasy,
 
I'm in Australia because of my skills and training under a points based immigration system.

Skilled migration is great. Unskilled migration is stupid.

BTW I'm in Amsterdam as I write. And the prevailing view here seems to be that if the EU is punitive to the UK, Nexit will become a certainty.

And the Poles and the French are here due to Demand- heard of that concept- Supply and Demand, if not suggest googling it up

If there was no Demand, there would be no Supply
 
Asking the UK to follow certain rules like everyone else is not punitive, so the prevailing view is a fantasy. Plus Netherlands was also in the unanimous decision. I wrote above, more countries breaking is a very slim chance. They're mostly pro-EU. The UK is very anti-EU, and even then it barely won the Leave vote. If the other nations were like or even similar to UK then their leaders would have made plenty of anti-EU noises to satisfy their electorate, like Cameron has since 2010 and that hasn't happened or their electorate would have forced the leaders to hold referendums.

If 27 other nations follow the same rules, there is no reason why the UK should be special. And if the UK feels that's unfair then simply invoke Art.50.

This is plain wrong.

The Dutch and the French people both voted down the EU constitution referenda in 2005, only for their governments to ignore the results and sign it.

For the record, I'm a French speaker who is in Amsterdam en route to my holidays on the Côte d'Azur. I'm not a bigoted little Englander, rather I see things because of my French links that you can't.

Pretty much all that is bad about French government is because almost all politicians and senior civil servants trained at ENA, the Grand Ecole of administration. They are brought up to be Sir Humphrey Appleby, with utter contempt for the citizens of their country.

They are utterly disinterested in 20% youth unemployment.

And they - and their European peers - now run the European Commission, and are turning Europe into France. But they sees hordes of cheap unskilled Eastern Europeans as a benefit (in keeping costs down) and are indifferent to how they distort house prices, schooling, health services and wages.

If you think Oxbridge domination of the Civil Service is bad, I suggest that you study how ENA works.
 
https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

1.2 million is correct.

Secondly, UK was indeed in the EU. By its own consent. So the rest of your post is simply nonsensical.

If the UK wanted to play hard, it could simply invoke Art 50 and leave. No reason to go EU begging for deals, if according to you, UK has all the leverage. So why doesn't it? How you think one country can bully a 27 nation alliance (which btw voted unanimously for no deal with UK unless it includes freedom of movement) is simply laughable. Pound has nosedived, companies are moving their HQs away from London, there is massive social division and these light bulbs want to play hard-ball. If the EU gives the UK a soft deal then it might as well cease to exist, as every disgruntled member would ask the same. You want access to a single market and all its advantages then play by that organisation's rule. UK is free to leave but then shouldn't still expect the same privileges.

A lot of garbage and propaganda in your post your friend Spookie has already posted, and it has already been addressed.

As for un-elected 'bureaucrats', its another myth. Every country elects MEPs, who then elect a leader in EU. Which is no different than how people are elected in any country. The House of Commons is un-elected, we might get someone ridiculous like Gove, all un-elected too. So save me the democracy speeches. The UK's mifortune was that the right-wing idiots first elected a BNP member and then a UKIP member as a MEP. Who had no real interest in representing UK.

What's more funny is you bashing immigrants. When you have South Asian ancestry, then went to UK and now is an immigrant in Australia.

What does it matter to him if the UK gets loaded with 1.2 million of its expats? He's comfortably in Australia.

Asking the UK to follow certain rules like everyone else is not punitive, so the prevailing view is a fantasy. Plus Netherlands was also in the unanimous decision. I wrote above, more countries breaking is a very slim chance. They're mostly pro-EU. The UK is very anti-EU, and even then it barely won the Leave vote. If the other nations were like or even similar to UK then their leaders would have made plenty of anti-EU noises to satisfy their electorate, like Cameron has since 2010 and that hasn't happened or their electorate would have forced the leaders to hold referendums.

If 27 other nations follow the same rules, there is no reason why the UK should be special. And if the UK feels that's unfair then simply invoke Art.50.

Northern Europe - including the UK - is not the USA or India.

There will always be demand from employers for cheaper labour willing to work horrific shifts. But our welfare state means that we have to pay for any displaced workers to be unemployed, so it harms our country overall rather than helping it. This is not the USA where taxpayers discard the unemployed - we have to fund them.

I would rather have a Jamaican nurse than a Portuguese one. And I'd rather pay an English builder 10% more than the going rate of 15 years ago instead of paying a Polish one 10% less.
 
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This is plain wrong.

The Dutch and the French people both voted down the EU constitution referenda in 2005, only for their governments to ignore the results and sign it.

For the record, I'm a French speaker who is in Amsterdam en route to my holidays on the Côte d'Azur. I'm not a bigoted little Englander, rather I see things because of my French links that you can't.

Pretty much all that is bad about French government is because almost all politicians and senior civil servants trained at ENA, the Grand Ecole of administration. They are brought up to be Sir Humphrey Appleby, with utter contempt for the citizens of their country.

They are utterly disinterested in 20% youth unemployment.

And they - and their European peers - now run the European Commission, and are turning Europe into France. But they sees hordes of cheap unskilled Eastern Europeans as a benefit (in keeping costs down) and are indifferent to how they distort house prices, schooling, health services and wages.

If you think Oxbridge domination of the Civil Service is bad, I suggest that you study how ENA works.

The referendum were about the constitution, not whether to remain or leave. Hence your post attempting to link the two is deliberately misleading.

Secondly, if the French wanted to leave they'd select Le Pen. Which they don't and won't. Any country that wants to leave would see that need to leave reflected in their elected leaders; again like Cameron's constant anti-EU whining.

Northern Europe - including the UK - is not the USA or India.

There will always be demand from employers for cheaper labour willing to work horrific shifts. But our welfare state means that we have to pay for any displaced workers to be unemployed, so it harms our country overall rather than helping it. This is not the USA where taxpayers discard the unemployed - we have to fund them.

I would rather have a Jamaican nurse than a Portuguese one. And I'd rather pay an English builder 10% more than the going rate of 15 years ago instead of paying a Polish one 10% less.

Good for you, but that's not how normal businesses work. Welcome to the real world.
 
thats a tough one - in the past we would ship them off to Australia......now with the points system that may be a tad challenging....
Google Dante Arthurs and prepare to fall off your seat!

In terms of the EU, if I were the PM I would be refusing to be excluded from EU discussions of Brexit as we are still a full member.

And I would go out of my way to obstruct and inconvenience Junckers, Tusk and Schultz at every turn about every single piece of EU business, until they accept that it is worth paying a price of compromise to be rid of us.
 
Northern Europe - including the UK - is not the USA or India.

There will always be demand from employers for cheaper labour willing to work horrific shifts. But our welfare state means that we have to pay for any displaced workers to be unemployed, so it harms our country overall rather than helping it. This is not the USA where taxpayers discard the unemployed - we have to fund them.

I would rather have a Jamaican nurse than a Portuguese one. And I'd rather pay an English builder 10% more than the going rate of 15 years ago instead of paying a Polish one 10% less.

Nope it doesnt, in a free market which the UK is pretty much, existing suppliers would reduce their price till they are in sync with the demand curve again (which is the way it should be)- surprisingly for a right winger you dont know much

The problem UK has that it has not retrained its displaced workers and the workers themselves instead of innovating and competing on quality prefer to head over to the dole line, rather than spending time on understanding why their jobs have been taken over by foreigners and then moan immigration. Plumbers and builders would not come to the UK if there wasnt a scarcity of them.

I would rather pay a builder regardless of their ethnicity who are punctual, provide good service and are reliable, and in 17 years of having encountered tradesmen in this country- I would say majority of English tradesmen have an air of entitlement to them and more often than not will not perform to a satisfactory level- there is a reason why for consumers the Polish plumber was godsent.

Anything else in the delusional world of yours?
 
Google Dante Arthurs and prepare to fall off your seat!

In terms of the EU, if I were the PM I would be refusing to be excluded from EU discussions of Brexit as we are still a full member.

And I would go out of my way to obstruct and inconvenience Junckers, Tusk and Schultz at every turn about every single piece of EU business, until they accept that it is worth paying a price of compromise to be rid of us.
After my post re-Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969, in response to your post about kicking all these hundreds of thousands of Poles and French out of the UK, you've now suddenly gone quiet on the topic of kicking them out. I usually enjoy having discussions with you on this forum, as you are usually well informed on the topics under discussion. This time, alas, you appear to be shooting from the hip without first checking up on your facts. Just saying.
 
After my post re-Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969, in response to your post about kicking all these hundreds of thousands of Poles and French out of the UK, you've now suddenly gone quiet on the topic of kicking them out. I usually enjoy having discussions with you on this forum, as you are usually well informed on the topics under discussion. This time, alas, you appear to be shooting from the hip without first checking up on your facts. Just saying.

By the same argument, Algeria was formerly part of the EU. And half a million French would be entitled to return.

And a million Palestinians would be entitled to return to their homes.
 
By the same argument, Algeria was formerly part of the EU. And half a million French would be entitled to return.

And a million Palestinians would be entitled to return to their homes.
What's that got to do with Brexit? Where the UK has voluntarily voted to leave the EU, and the EU is legally obliged to allow the UK to leave once the UK makes a formal application to do so. Just because I've pointed out the complete and utter rubbish you posted with that comment about kicking Polish and French citizens out of the UK, you think that the French leaving Algeria, and the Palestinians being forced out of their homes and lands in the area now known as Israel, is a similar situation to Brexit? Gee whiz man, for someone supposedly well educated, and claiming to know so much about the UK/EU relationship, you really seem to be clueless about the topic under discussion. :facepalm:
 
Most of the people who voted out of the EU voted out just to get immigrants out. They don't even realize how it will affect us.
 
Goes without saying that people who pose a threat should be removed.

People refusing to integrate and assimilate should also be removed.

Perhaps they can start by targeting illegal immigrants in the following areas - Eastham, Luton, Ilford, Bradford, Rotherham, etc...

Define and offer examples.
 
All of the candidates for Tory party leader / PM and now even the Labour Shadow Chancellor have confirmed that the Brexit would go ahead in their respective administrations, and they have all started to lay out plans for this as well.

This referendum outcome has been accepted by the people who lead us and it will define policy for the next 5 years.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"I'm not anti-islamic, I've got lots of Islamic friends" says the leader of UKIP, in the time honoured way, as he indulges in anti-Islamism. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbcqt?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#bbcqt</a></p>— Pete Wishart (@PeteWishart) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/936368449881862144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2017</a></blockquote>
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