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Umar Akmal (pre-World Cup 2011) vs Umar Akmal (post-World Cup 2011) - LOIs

ahmedwaqas92

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We all know how 'talented' Umer Akmal is and there is no doubt he is probably the most 'gifted' batsman of this Pakistani generation. However what started as a joke with [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] made me delve into some statistics on Cricinfo and to my surprise I stumbled on something which is rather 'not surprising' but completely eye opening for all the hypsters out there.

Umer Akmal for all the God Gifted Talent he posses has some pretty mediocre numbers even if we filter his results based on how he played under two different captains.

On Mar 30th 2011 Pakistan lost the Semi final to India and so did Afridi his captaincy so my benchmark for this comparison was how the bloke played under Afridi and how he played under Misbah.

For Matches that were played under Afridi (Until 30th March 2011 - Mohali Day :facepalm:) these were his statistics.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Cricinfo 1.jpg

In the above statistic UA has a mighty average of 36.06 in 37 matches which is a very good sample size to judge how a player is doing. Being one of the most talented batsmen in the setup an average of 36.06, no matter what the strike rate might be, isn't very impressive as a matter of fact its quite ordinary to be honest and nothing to write home about. In this period he only had his solitary hundred against SL in his debut series.

Under Misbah Junior had the following.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Cricinfo 2.jpg

75 Matches under Misbah has him scoring 33.77 runs per game which is 3 points less than his Pre WC 2011 average. So technically speaking he regressed from were he was but the regression, as some people might suggest, wasn't that much to be honest. Another facet that we need to consider is UA was part of a brittle line up so on most occasions he would have come in early and had enough time to 'settle and build' an innings but even so in 75 matches; which is a hell lot of games for someone scoring at 33.77 he has only 1 century to show us and that too against Afghanistan :facepalm: I also remember they dropped him early in his innings during that game as well :(

By the looks of the above it seems a sad state of affairs and it seems that what some posters make Umer ought to be maybe, just maybe he isn't like that. I don't understand that why can't our batsman be good, no future ATG crap and everything, and then work their way up like humble human beings ??? Why do we need to set up ourselves for disappointment with claiming OTT statements like once in a life time talent etc etc.

I want to know exactly what is it that's holding UA back, is it bad management ? Is it the captaincy ? Is it his own deficiency ?? I want to get to the bottom of this and this is based on empirical data I collected from Cricinfo. The links are there so anyone can review them for their convenience.
 
I'd like to see Umar Akmal (before getting dropped from tests) vs Umar Akmal (after getting dropped from tests) in ODI's and T20's separately.
 
No matter which timeframe you look at - UA has always been an underacheiver in ODI's.

His debut Test century and attacking style of play gave him many admirers but his record speaks for itself - the sad thing is his rate of decline has increased in the last year or so.

That being said - I still do think he is a very talented player and should really put his down and focus on becoming better...
 
He was hyped to heights as great as Amir was and still is to this day.

However you must understand, that a pre 2011 Umar Akmal was a Godsend for a down right garbage ODI team like ours. An average of 36 with an 82+ average for us right now is like a 40+ average with 87+ SR for a top ODI team, when for us 31-33 average and a strike rate hovering around 78-79 has been the norm fot the past 4 years.

So by our standards he could be an asset (WHEN IN FORM). But yes atm he has lost the plot completely and I don't know when he'll recover, I hope he does because he has the dynamism our mundane and backward odi team needs.
 
I'd like to see Umar Akmal (before getting dropped from tests) vs Umar Akmal (after getting dropped from tests) in ODI's and T20's separately.

His Last Test Appearance was on 01 Sep 2011 (which isn't that far away from 30th March 2011 - My Cut off Date) but nevertheless this is what he achieved.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Cricinfo 1.jpg

Again an average of 37.84 in 43 matches is not up to scratch to being called a World Class talent. While on the other hand post his test matches drop out he has done as follows:

Cricinfo 2.jpg

Again nothing to write home about :( :facepalm:
 
No matter which timeframe you look at - UA has always been an underacheiver in ODI's.

His debut Test century and attacking style of play gave him many admirers but his record speaks for itself - the sad thing is his rate of decline has increased in the last year or so.

That being said - I still do think he is a very talented player and should really put his down and focus on becoming better...

Personally to me it seems like he's given up on himself after getting dropped so many times and failing a lot too. I was reading James Pattinson's interview the other day and he too says that cricket isn't that serious to him anymore after his entire promising career was marred by injuries, he's lost motivation and is focusing on other interests as well like construction management, etc. Could be the case with Junior here, I hope it isn't true, but looks like it at times. Then you got PCB standing there with a knife over his head as well, with chairman saab publicly calling him out for unethical behavior which was made to be a bigger deal than it actually was.

I don't know if his discouraged mindset will change, because he still has time and the talent to make things work and still end up as a great Pakistani batsman. Look at Kane Williamson, he wasn't that great few years back, but he went back to the basics and worked on his technique etc. His coaches said he would stay back for extra practice. THAT's the drive you need to elevate your game and improve, and look at KW now.

He needs a good coach to help him reignite his mojo, it may not work, but we've run out of options.
 
To say he had plenty of time to build an innings is a very naive comment and is totally devoid of looking at the broader situation. Yes he average 33-36 but do you think comming in at 3 or 4 wickets down for not much runs on the board has no impact on how a batsman plays? What if Umar Akmal came to the wicket at 3-4 wickets down and the Pakistan team was actually chasing a target in limited overs and he didn't have enough luxury to take his time and had to get going immediately given the lack of time, overs and lack of sufficient batting to come under him?

Why hasn't Umar Akmal been given a consistent run at No 3, No 4 or even tried as an opener. While some blame can go to Umar Akmal for not performing as per expectation but there is a legitimate case of mis management and under utilization as well.

I remember countless tweets that whenever Umar Akmal plays, bats well Harsha Bhogle just tears his head out as to what the Pakistan team management is thinking by playing their best batsman so low down the order.

Imran Khan kept persisting with Inzi inspite of his numerous initial failures and dismissals where there was so much criticism from the selectors, fellow senior players who literally accussed him of playing a ******** but IK countered this guy is going to win me the WC and is going to be the best player of pace bowling the world has ever seen.

For e.g. when Inzi had yet another failure against NZ where he got bowled by Morrisson, he was at an all time low and no one in the team was talking to him properly and he himself was totally devoid of confidence in his own abilities. The worst he felt was to come when he found out that he was going to sit next to IK on a flight and he was literally shitting bricks. But to the contrary IK didn't go on and on reminding Inzi about his failures or lack of success. He talked about stuff like "That pull shot you played off Morrisson, what an amazing shot e.t.c."

This is what you call identifying your best talent and then backing it to the hilt. It is not just Umar Akmal but so many of our players suffer from mis management.
 
His Last Test Appearance was on 01 Sep 2011 (which isn't that far away from 30th March 2011 - My Cut off Date) but nevertheless this is what he achieved.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

View attachment 62477

Again an average of 37.84 in 43 matches is not up to scratch to being called a World Class talent. While on the other hand post his test matches drop out he has done as follows:

View attachment 62478

Again nothing to write home about :( :facepalm:

I still see this as a big issue. U.Akmal has always been a power hitter kind of batsmen but after being dropped from tests he always seemed to be put at 6 and he just slogged.
 
IMO, he has been slumping since the SA ODI series in the UAE in 2013.

Prior to that IIRC, the WI tour, he played quite well and made some useful contributions to our series win there but since then it seems like he forgot how to hold a bat properly.

Can someone do a pre and post SA series career split for Umar ? I think the results will be blatantly obvious.
 
IMO, he has been slumping since the SA ODI series in the UAE in 2013.

Prior to that IIRC, the WI tour, he played quite well and made some useful contributions to our series win there but since then it seems like he forgot how to hold a bat properly.

Can someone do a pre and post SA series career split for Umar ? I think the results will be blatantly obvious.

Had a good LOI 2014, with a good 2014 WC and a good Asia Cup.
 
The thing that really make me pull my hair is that all this data is pretty easy to spot, pull out and identified.

Come on Yar if simple discussion board users can pull these from Cricinfo then why can't our Analysis team at NCA just google properly :facepalm:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Had a good LOI 2014, with a good 2014 WC and a good Asia Cup.

Yes but bilateral cricket is comfortably the majority of the cricket for the year and when you sum up the average for his 2014, I'd imagine it doesn't make pretty reading.
 
IMO, he has been slumping since the SA ODI series in the UAE in 2013.

Prior to that IIRC, the WI tour, he played quite well and made some useful contributions to our series win there but since then it seems like he forgot how to hold a bat properly.

Can someone do a pre and post SA series career split for Umar ? I think the results will be blatantly obvious.

Yep good point:

Screen_Shot_2015_12_05_at_12_32_03_PM.png


Still remember his classy six off Morkel in the 1st ODI, pretty much the highlight for him that series.
 
Yep good point:

Screen_Shot_2015_12_05_at_12_32_03_PM.png


Still remember his classy six off Morkel in the 1st ODI, pretty much the highlight for him that series.

Surprised the average is that low prior to the SA series, I seem to recall that he was nearing the 40 mark in the WI series ?

Yes I do remember that 6 off Morkel, I made a thread on it such was the speciality of the shot - my recollection is that it was a short of length ball on middle that most batsmen would have defended back down the pitch but Umar went for this massive swat/pull/flamingo shot and got it right out of the middle and the ball disappeared out of the ground. Unfortunately, he didn't make many more runs that innings.
 
Surprised the average is that low prior to the SA series, I seem to recall that he was nearing the 40 mark in the WI series ?

Yes I do remember that 6 off Morkel, I made a thread on it such was the speciality of the shot - my recollection is that it was a short of length ball on middle that most batsmen would have defended back down the pitch but Umar went for this massive swat/pull/flamingo shot and got it right out of the middle and the ball disappeared out of the ground. Unfortunately, he didn't make many more runs that innings.

No, you've looked at the wrong post. He was averaging 38 before that series:

Pre SA Series:

Screen_Shot_2015_12_05_at_12_38_08_PM.png
 
No matter how you pull the filter the average is still mid 30s :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Pre SA Series:

Screen_Shot_2015_12_05_at_12_38_08_PM.png

Missed this post when I was making my previous one; those stats are brilliant for a Pakistani batsman - an average near 40 and a SR close to 90 has IIRC never been scaled by a Pakistani batsman, with the closest ones to that mark being Zaheer and Saeed.

I think that makes it clear to everyone why Umar was in the team at that team and why he isn't right now.
 
Surprised the average is that low prior to the SA series, I seem to recall that he was nearing the 40 mark in the WI series ?

Yes I do remember that 6 off Morkel, I made a thread on it such was the speciality of the shot - my recollection is that it was a short of length ball on middle that most batsmen would have defended back down the pitch but Umar went for this massive swat/pull/flamingo shot and got it right out of the middle and the ball disappeared out of the ground. Unfortunately, he didn't make many more runs that innings.

Yeah posted the 2nd screen shot with his pre Sa series with a ~40 average right above your post :P ran out of time to edit it into my original one.

Edit: nvm you found it :afridi

But yeah those stats are decent for any odi bat.
 
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Missed this post when I was making my previous one; those stats are brilliant for a Pakistani batsman - an average near 40 and a SR close to 90 has IIRC never been scaled by a Pakistani batsman, with the closest ones to that mark being Zaheer and Saeed.

I think that makes it clear to everyone why Umar was in the team at that team and why he isn't right now.

After that WI series he should have been promoted.
 
Yeah posted the 2nd screen shot with his pre Sa series with a ~40 average right above your post :P ran out of time to edit it into my original one.

Edit: nvm you found it :afridi

But yeah those stats are decent for any odi bat.

But according to most PPers, he was always a hack who should never have been in the team.
 
Yes but bilateral cricket is comfortably the majority of the cricket for the year and when you sum up the average for his 2014, I'd imagine it doesn't make pretty reading.

season 2013/14

Matches: 5
Runs: 253
Highest score: 102*
Average: 84.33

When playing at a Neutral:

Matches: 9
Runs: 325
Highest Score: 102*
Average: 40.62

Fun fact :P

Games where we lost the toss:

Matches: 7
Runs: 272
Highest Score: 102*
Average:54.40

This is what I meant. This ODI's only btw.

(P.S This is 2013/14, and Jan 1 2014 to Dec 31 2014)
 
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He was dropped by a selfish Misbah who wanted to look like the best bat in the team. #fact
 
season 2013/14

Matches: 5
Runs: 253
Highest score: 102*
Average: 84.33

When playing at a Neutral:

Matches: 9
Runs: 325
Highest Score: 102*
Average: 40.62

Fun fact :P

Games where we lost the toss:

Matches: 7
Runs: 272
Highest Score: 102*
Average:54.40

This is what I meant. This ODI's only btw.

(P.S This is 2013/14, and Jan 1 2014 to Dec 31 2014)

Overall for the year in ODIs ?

Must be below 30 since he's been averaging in the low 20s for the last 2 years.
 
What was the result?

He didn't get promoted, was labeled as an "just below 40 averaging finisher/slogger" and left at 6.

I also advocated for a move up the order at the time because he had turned a corner then.

However, since then, things turned ugly and he has lost his place in the ODI team, so a this point in time, it doesn't matter where he is batting since he's not scoring many runs.
 
I have asked this question many times but haven't got an answer yet. I am not good at filtering stats, so I request senior stat experts to consider it.

"How many times Umar Akmal has stayed unbeaten for more than half the overs that were left when he came to crease. Percentage please ?"

(Exclude the innings when he came to crease with 10 or less overs left).
 
We all know how 'talented' Umer Akmal is and there is no doubt he is probably the most 'gifted' batsman of this Pakistani generation. However what started as a joke with [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] made me delve into some statistics on Cricinfo and to my surprise I stumbled on something which is rather 'not surprising' but completely eye opening for all the hypsters out there.

Umer Akmal for all the God Gifted Talent he posses has some pretty mediocre numbers even if we filter his results based on how he played under two different captains.

On Mar 30th 2011 Pakistan lost the Semi final to India and so did Afridi his captaincy so my benchmark for this comparison was how the bloke played under Afridi and how he played under Misbah.

For Matches that were played under Afridi (Until 30th March 2011 - Mohali Day :facepalm:) these were his statistics.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

View attachment 62475

In the above statistic UA has a mighty average of 36.06 in 37 matches which is a very good sample size to judge how a player is doing. Being one of the most talented batsmen in the setup an average of 36.06, no matter what the strike rate might be, isn't very impressive as a matter of fact its quite ordinary to be honest and nothing to write home about. In this period he only had his solitary hundred against SL in his debut series.

Under Misbah Junior had the following.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

View attachment 62476

75 Matches under Misbah has him scoring 33.77 runs per game which is 3 points less than his Pre WC 2011 average. So technically speaking he regressed from were he was but the regression, as some people might suggest, wasn't that much to be honest. Another facet that we need to consider is UA was part of a brittle line up so on most occasions he would have come in early and had enough time to 'settle and build' an innings but even so in 75 matches; which is a hell lot of games for someone scoring at 33.77 he has only 1 century to show us and that too against Afghanistan :facepalm: I also remember they dropped him early in his innings during that game as well :(

By the looks of the above it seems a sad state of affairs and it seems that what some posters make Umer ought to be maybe, just maybe he isn't like that. I don't understand that why can't our batsman be good, no future ATG crap and everything, and then work their way up like humble human beings ??? Why do we need to set up ourselves for disappointment with claiming OTT statements like once in a life time talent etc etc.

I want to know exactly what is it that's holding UA back, is it bad management ? Is it the captaincy ? Is it his own deficiency ?? I want to get to the bottom of this and this is based on empirical data I collected from Cricinfo. The links are there so anyone can review them for their convenience.
Afridi didn't lose his captaincy straight after the world cup. He lost it after the West Indies tour.

There are easier ways in Statsguru to see how players performed under different captains.
 
I guess Umar has been decent for Pakistani standards. That's not saying much.
 
Still poor though and I'd wager that the reason why he has a, by Pakistan standards, reasonable average is because of the Asia Cup in 2014 where he had a good tourney otherwise he was fire for most of 2014 (can't see the stats because I'm on my phone atm).

It's unfair to give bilaterals more priority over a cup when judging a player. You can't say "If X tournament didn't happen or if Y didn't perform in X tournament his average would be bad, so that's why he is poor"
 
Umar gets talked about too much, its time you move on from him.

He doesn't possess the work ethic or smarts to make it at the international level.
 
The word talent is overused on PP, I don't think Umar is talented.

There are thousands of players around the world who can play fantastic shots and make it look easy, but these guys never make it to international cricket.

Talent imo is when you're able to consistently score runs against the best bowlers in the world and make it look easy while doing it.
 
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Personally to me it seems like he's given up on himself after getting dropped so many times and failing a lot too. I was reading James Pattinson's interview the other day and he too says that cricket isn't that serious to him anymore after his entire promising career was marred by injuries, he's lost motivation and is focusing on other interests as well like construction management, etc. Could be the case with Junior here, I hope it isn't true, but looks like it at times. Then you got PCB standing there with a knife over his head as well, with chairman saab publicly calling him out for unethical behavior which was made to be a bigger deal than it actually was.

I don't know if his discouraged mindset will change, because he still has time and the talent to make things work and still end up as a great Pakistani batsman. Look at Kane Williamson, he wasn't that great few years back, but he went back to the basics and worked on his technique etc. His coaches said he would stay back for extra practice. THAT's the drive you need to elevate your game and improve, and look at KW now.

He needs a good coach to help him reignite his mojo, it may not work, but we've run out of options.

Sorry but it seems like him and we are just making excuses.

Umer Akmal should understand that his performances have been below par in all formats ever since 2010.

2 ODI centuries since his debut is unacceptable and him throwing his wicket away to leg side slogs are even more unacceptable.

Yes - the chairman criticized for that alleged mujra party but when the accusations were proven false, he was immediately reinstated to the T20 team but did absolutely jack in the 3 matches.....

If he is losing motivation for being dropped - then his is simply not mentally suitable for representing his national team at cricket. It is that simple... All I would have to say to him is goodbye and good riddance.

He has the talent in him but should really look at the mirror and adjust his weaknesses rather than playing the victim game and/or giving up
 
The word talent is overused on PP, I don't think Umar is talented.

There are thousands of players around the world who can play fantastic shots and make it look easy, but these guys never make it to international cricket.

Talent imo is when you're able to consistently score runs against the best bowlers in the world and make it look easy while doing it.

As much as it might be bitter to swallow.... Pretty much this ^^^
 
Finally Umar is compared with himself. Now see his rise.
 
Sick and tired of the word "talent" on PP, what has Umar done since his debut to be deemed "talented" (except an odd innings or two) as most of PP believe? 2 ODI hundreds in a century of ODIs speak volumes of his so called "talent".

I will say what Muhammad Yousaf said regarding his "talent", "Umar Akmal is a keeper who can bat a bit" and that seems to be the best statement personifying his so called once in a lifetime "talent".
 
OP, how about you give credit to the bowlers around the world who eventually figured out that U Akmal was a two-shot player and if you simply blocked one of those shots, you would have him?
 
It's unfair to give bilaterals more priority over a cup when judging a player. You can't say "If X tournament didn't happen or if Y didn't perform in X tournament his average would be bad, so that's why he is poor"

I'm not, but the fact is that other than the Asia Cup what performance does he have in 2014 ?
 
I'm not, but the fact is that other than the Asia Cup what performance does he have in 2014 ?

IIRC he only had 1 series besides that, the Australia one. Only played 2 matches, score 46 in one and 5 in the other.
 
What? Whats the point of cherrypicking? 1 or 2 performances by Akmal in an entire year hardly warrants discussion as he couldn't replicate such performance in continuity.

Did you even read my post? Seriously? I said that THIS is how he should have played!
 
He is done and dusted. Averaging 29 in last three years and he has only himself to blame. Soon he will lose his spot in t20s.
 
Good thing is the excuse of 'he is youngster bueaty and will learn' has gone away
 
No hope for junior Akmal it seems.. Even comparing him with himself doesn’t seem to have made him any better..

Such a shame
 
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