United passenger forcibly removed from flight after refusing to give up seat

[JaDed]

<iframe width='640' height='360' scrolling='no' frameborder='0' src='https://www.yahoo.com/news/disturbing-video-shows-man-being-144830994.html?format=embed' allowfullscreen='true' mozallowfullscreen='true' webkitallowfullscreen='true' allowtransparency='true'></iframe>

A United passenger was forcibly removed from a flight from Chicago to Louisville after he refused to voluntarily give up his seat.

Fellow passengers on the flight posted jarring videos late Sunday night of uniformed men dragging the man off of the flight after what United called an “overbook situation.”

“This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United,” said United CEO Oscar Munoz in a statement Monday afternoon. “I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers. Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the authorities and conduct our own detailed review of what happened. We are also reaching out to this passenger to talk directly with him to address and resolve this situation.”

Audra D. Bridges and Tyler Bridges posted video of the incident:

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/united">@united</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/FoxNews">@FoxNews</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CNN">@CNN</a> not a good way to treat a Doctor trying to get to work because they overbooked <a href="https://t.co/sj9oHk94Ik">pic.twitter.com/sj9oHk94Ik</a></p>— Tyler Bridges (@Tyler_Bridges) <a href="https://twitter.com/Tyler_Bridges/status/851214160042106880">April 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/united">@United</a> overbook <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/flight3411?src=hash">#flight3411</a> and decided to force random passengers off the plane. Here's how they did it: <a href="https://t.co/QfefM8X2cW">pic.twitter.com/QfefM8X2cW</a></p>— Jayse D. Anspach (@JayseDavid) <a href="https://twitter.com/JayseDavid/status/851223662976004096">April 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[JaDed]

Atrocious this was honestly,the videos,not sure what does overbooked mean.

 

[Syed1]

Absolutely pathetic. This makes me so angry. What's worse is they dragged him across the aisle.


Pehlay chori upar se sena zori. I hope strict action is taken against the airline and the airport staff. Those pathetic policemen need to lose their jobs ASAP.

 

[Syed1]

Funny how the white man chose an Asian dude at "random" to disembark the plane. If that isn't institutionalized racism I don't know what is.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Atrocious this was honestly,the videos,not sure what does overbooked mean.

It means exactly what it sounds. For example if there are 200 seats available in a flight to London, the airlines will let 210 passengers book tickets hoping that in case 10 passengers cancel their flight that it doesn't leave with 10 empty seats. You will generally find that you are are a victim of overbooking when you get to check-in and they will put you on the next flight, if you are good at making scene in middle of the airport they will let you fly in Business or First Class. This is highly unusual, they are not supposed to remove a person from the flight for the mistake of their own.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Absolutely pathetic. This makes me so angry. What's worse is they dragged him across the aisle.


Pehlay chori upar se sena zori. I hope strict action is taken against the airline and the airport staff. Those pathetic policemen need to lose their jobs ASAP.

How can they remove a person who has already been checked-in ? Especially just before the take off ? Isn't first come first serve basis ?

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Another video shows him, still disheveled from the altercation, returning to the cabin, running to the back of the plane and repeating: "I have to go home."

Fellow passenger who goes by @JayseDavid on Twitter, wrote: "No one volunteered (to leave), so @United decided to choose for us. They chose an older Asian doctor and his wife."

His face was slammed against an arm rest, causing his mouth to bleed. He was knocked out, because he went limp and quiet and they dragged him out of the plane like a rag doll.

 

[StreetSmart]

Funny how the white man chose an Asian dude at "random" to disembark the plane. If that isn't institutionalized racism I don't know what is.

I was thinking the same why they never stopped a person who was not seated and yet they decided to remove a seated person then they say " WE THE PEOPLE"

 

[KingKhanWC]

I was thinking the same why they never stopped a person who was not seated and yet they decided to remove a seated person then they say " WE THE PEOPLE"

Probably because someone complained, so they decided to remove some already sat by force to accommodate.

It's the 'civilised' world so they must have good reason to do this.

 

[shaz619]

Sickening scenes, would have thought the world would have got past the Rosa Parks ordeal. I hope he sues the hell out of them and makes sure United get bad publicity endlessly.

 

[StreetSmart]

Probably because someone complained, so they decided to remove some already sat by force to accommodate.

It's the 'civilised' world so they must have good reason to do this.

There was no complaint, Flight got over booked and they were supposed to randomly pick a person instead of giving the standing ones the other flight.

And what they did was totally uncivilized and nonsense

 

[JaDed]

According to him,they had to accommodate United Employees,althought don't think that would be true.

Another United employee told passengers that the plane would not leave until four people got off, Mr. Bridges said. The employee specified that the airline had four United employees who needed to get to Louisville, he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/business/united-flight-passenger-dragged.html

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">United Airlines Releases new Customer Service Training Video. <a href="https://t.co/ygq3SwDua5">pic.twitter.com/ygq3SwDua5</a></p>— The Other 98% (@other98) <a href="https://twitter.com/other98/status/851577698287624192">10 April 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Specialisttailender]

This is terrible. Hope he gets a wall street lawyer and get rich.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

It means exactly what it sounds. For example if there are 200 seats available in a flight to London, the airlines will let 210 passengers book tickets hoping that in case 10 passengers cancel their flight that it doesn't leave with 10 empty seats. You will generally find that you are are a victim of overbooking when you get to check-in and they will put you on the next flight, if you are good at making scene in middle of the airport they will let you fly in Business or First Class. This is highly unusual, they are not supposed to remove a person from the flight for the mistake of their own.

How can they remove a person who has already been checked-in ? Especially just before the take off ? Isn't first come first serve basis ?

I was thinking the same why they never stopped a person who was not seated and yet they decided to remove a seated person then they say " WE THE PEOPLE"

Probably because someone complained, so they decided to remove some already sat by force to accommodate.

It's the 'civilised' world so they must have good reason to do this.

There was no complaint, Flight got over booked and they were supposed to randomly pick a person instead of giving the standing ones the other flight.

And what they did was totally uncivilized and nonsense

Flight was not overbooked. They needed to kick off 4 passengers to accommodate their own employees.

 

[StreetSmart]

Flight was not overbooked. They needed to kick off 4 passengers to accommodate their own employees.

What ever is the reason that is not the way no have rights to kick out a person who is already sitting and with family

 

[Gotham Cronie]

What ever is the reason that is not the way no have rights to kick out a person who is already sitting and with family

They actually do have the right to kick somebody off a plan assuming they follow the protocol and provide the required compensation.

Now, whether the police have the right to use the force that they did, is a real question. Certainly seemed excessive and and officer has already been put on leave while it's being investigated.

 

[Muhammad10]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: United CEO apologizes for treatment of passenger dragged off plane, saying "No one should ever be mistreated this way."</p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/status/851876612148789248">April 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[shaz619]

The Simpsons predicted this:

 

[IMMY69]

Flight was not overbooked. They needed to kick off 4 passengers to accommodate their own employees.

Flight was overbooked.

Airlines do this all the time. Even if they had to transport their own employees, they should have sold 4 less tickets.

 

[IMMY69]

They actually do have the right to kick somebody off a plan assuming they follow the protocol and provide the required compensation.

Now, whether the police have the right to use the force that they did, is a real question. Certainly seemed excessive and and officer has already been put on leave while it's being investigated.

No they don't.

They have the right to stop passengers from boarding. Once they have boarded they have no right to throw a passenger off due to overbooking.

 

[IMMY69]

$800m wiped off United due to this.

 

[Slog]

What ever is the reason that is not the way no have rights to kick out a person who is already sitting and with family

they actually do

when you buy a ticket you get it under some conditions one of which is that you can be bumped off anytime

obv terrible behavior

 

[IMMY69]

they actually do

when you buy a ticket you get it under some conditions one of which is that you can be bumped off anytime

obv terrible behavior

That is not correct.
A passenger cannot be kicked off once he has boarded the plane unless he/she is a security risk.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Flight was overbooked.

Airlines do this all the time. Even if they had to transport their own employees, they should have sold 4 less tickets.

"1. One easy example is that the flight wasn't "overbooked". The aircraft was booked to capacity, and unfortunately, four Republic Airlines crew members were needed at the destination airport and were labeled "must-fly". This resulted in the four passengers being forced off of the airplane onto the next available flight. The decision made by United was whether to inconvenience four passengers or have delays of multiple hours on multiple flights downline. Of course, both airlines didn't expect this outcome to occur.

"At the end of the day, it comes down to logistics for the airlines. Unfortunately, the whole east coast air system had been going through a week full of delays and cancellations due to weather and other issues. As part of this Republic Airlines had to reposition it's 4 crew members from Chicago to Louisville. Because the flight was full this would mean asking or forcing 4 passengers off the flight onto the next available connection. At the time this decision was most likely made with the knowledge that if those crew members didn't get to the destination in time, their next flight on duty may have been delayed ultimately resulting in unforeseen delays and airport fees afterward. Unfortunately the incident didn't resolve itself as the airline would have hoped."

No they don't.

They have the right to stop passengers from boarding. Once they have boarded they have no right to throw a passenger off due to overbooking.

Section 5A
UA has the right to cancel reservations (whether or not confirmed) of any Passenger whenever such action is necessary to comply with any governmental regulation, upon any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense, or whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control, (including, but not limited to acts of God, force majeure events, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, or other disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported).
Section 24B4d/g
Force Majeure Event – any of the following situations:
Any shortage of labor, fuel, or facilities of UA or others;
Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA.
24D
Force Majeure Event - In the event of a Force Majeure Event, UA without notice, may cancel, terminate, divert, postpone, or delay any flight, right of carriage or reservations (whether or not confirmed) and determine if any departure or landing should be made, without any liability on the part of UA. UA may re-accommodate Passengers on another available UA flight or on another carrier or combination of carriers, or via ground transportation, or may refund any unused portions of the Ticket in the form of a travel certificate.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

All parties wrong in the situation.

United simply should have kept increasing the offer amount until 4 passengers took them up on it to give up their seat for the employees.

The passenger, once being ordered to by the staff, should have complied with the order and taken it up with proceedings and legal complaints afterwards.

The police should not have used such excessive force.

 

[IMMY69]

"1. One easy example is that the flight wasn't "overbooked". The aircraft was booked to capacity, and unfortunately, four Republic Airlines crew members were needed at the destination airport and were labeled "must-fly". This resulted in the four passengers being forced off of the airplane onto the next available flight. The decision made by United was whether to inconvenience four passengers or have delays of multiple hours on multiple flights downline. Of course, both airlines didn't expect this outcome to occur.

"At the end of the day, it comes down to logistics for the airlines. Unfortunately, the whole east coast air system had been going through a week full of delays and cancellations due to weather and other issues. As part of this Republic Airlines had to reposition it's 4 crew members from Chicago to Louisville. Because the flight was full this would mean asking or forcing 4 passengers off the flight onto the next available connection. At the time this decision was most likely made with the knowledge that if those crew members didn't get to the destination in time, their next flight on duty may have been delayed ultimately resulting in unforeseen delays and airport fees afterward. Unfortunately the incident didn't resolve itself as the airline would have hoped."



Section 5A
UA has the right to cancel reservations (whether or not confirmed) of any Passenger whenever such action is necessary to comply with any governmental regulation, upon any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense, or whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control, (including, but not limited to acts of God, force majeure events, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, or other disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported).
Section 24B4d/g
Force Majeure Event – any of the following situations:
Any shortage of labor, fuel, or facilities of UA or others;
Any event not reasonably foreseen, anticipated or predicted by UA.
24D
Force Majeure Event - In the event of a Force Majeure Event, UA without notice, may cancel, terminate, divert, postpone, or delay any flight, right of carriage or reservations (whether or not confirmed) and determine if any departure or landing should be made, without any liability on the part of UA. UA may re-accommodate Passengers on another available UA flight or on another carrier or combination of carriers, or via ground transportation, or may refund any unused portions of the Ticket in the form of a travel certificate.

Sorry mate but i have to respectfully disagree.

I have read some of their rules.

Firstly, their own rules state that they can prevent passengers from flying before boarding the plane. They can't throw passengers off of the plane.

On that basis alone the Force Majeure rule fails. Anyway, the events in this case are far too remote for force majeure to apply.

United are buggered in this case.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

It would be interesting if it ever did get that far, but no doubt United will fill his pockets to just go away.

Probably both them and the Police Department.

 

[IMMY69]

It would be interesting if it ever did get that far, but no doubt United will fill his pockets to just go away.

Probably both them and the Police Department.

Its the United States of America, no doubt that Doctor Saab is currently being inundated by lawyers who will be promising him the world...

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

If they had given 10 million USD to the person who would give up their seat they would have been much better of.

 

[StreetSmart]

they actually do

when you buy a ticket you get it under some conditions one of which is that you can be bumped off anytime

obv terrible behavior

Ridiculous

 

[StreetSmart]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: United CEO apologizes for treatment of passenger dragged off plane, saying "No one should ever be mistreated this way."</p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/status/851876612148789248">April 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

it's too late petition has already been filed against him

 

[IMMY69]

These incidences have happened before too, just not caught on camera like this.

The bottom line is that what happened was completely and utterly unacceptable.

This is one time where I would advocate going for the jugular. Take it all the way in the courts, ensure heads roll and millions, if not hundreds of millions are paid out.

 

[Madplayer]

Hope he can retire and live a great life after suing the airline. Absolutely disgraceful how they "randomnly" selected an asian. To add to it , He was a doctor. How do these knobheads know he wasnt needed ASAP at some hospital?

 

[Black Zero]

UA lost $1B in market value.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

UA lost $1B in market value.

United’s stock initially erased all of its post-scandal losses, rallying as much as 1.4% in intraday trade Wednesday, to briefly rise above its 50-day moving average

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...scandals-may-not-hurt-their-stocks-2017-04-12

 

[Syed1]

Hope he can retire and live a great life after suing the airline. Absolutely disgraceful how they "randomnly" selected an asian. To add to it , He was a doctor. How do these knobheads know he wasnt needed ASAP at some hospital?

That's actually was the purpose of his flight. He was flying over to meet an appointment for a patient who needed his attention. Now I don't know what kind of doctor that bloke is or how urgent the patient's situation was.

 

[Black Zero]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...scandals-may-not-hurt-their-stocks-2017-04-12

lets wait as see..
these companies can manipulate to some extent on short period

 

[shaykh]

As terrible as this appears it's not the easiest situation to pass judgement...

3 other customers left the plane without causing a fuss...this guy should probably have done the same and just accepted some form of compensation...

The flight was overbooked...so what options do the airline have?...presuming they chose people at random...i'm not sure about the rules but im not sure if staff can increase the amount offered there and then...

What I guess should have happened is the final 4 should have been told they can't board then it would seem less unfair...and naturally there would be no scene on the plane...

 

[Black Zero]

As terrible as this appears it's not the easiest situation to pass judgement...

3 other customers left the plane without causing a fuss...this guy should probably have done the same and just accepted some form of compensation...

The flight was overbooked...so what options do the airline have?...presuming they chose people at random...i'm not sure about the rules but im not sure if staff can increase the amount offered there and then...

What I guess should have happened is the final 4 should have been told they can't board then it would seem less unfair...and naturally there would be no scene on the plane...

on a side note, Canada is passing a bill against over booking.

 

[shaykh]

on a side note, Canada is passing a bill against over booking.

That's actually what should be done...that would prevent such a situation arising...and that is the airlines being greedy...

What I don't know is what staff can do given the situation they were presented...how do you remove a fully grown man who refuses to leave?...

 

[Syed1]

This cracked me up

 

[Gotham Cronie]

on a side note, Canada is passing a bill against over booking.

That's actually what should be done...that would prevent such a situation arising...and that is the airlines being greedy....

Hope you look forward to higher ticket prices in that case. Simple economics.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Hope he can retire and live a great life after suing the airline. Absolutely disgraceful how they "randomnly" selected an asian. To add to it , He was a doctor. How do these knobheads know he wasnt needed ASAP at some hospital?

Funny how the white man chose an Asian dude at "random" to disembark the plane. If that isn't institutionalized racism I don't know what is.

There were 4 passengers that were randomly chosen, one of which was this Asian doctor. The other 3 left with no fuss and accepted their compensation.

 

[Syed1]

There were 4 passengers that were randomly chosen, one of which was this Asian doctor. The other 3 left with no fuss and accepted their compensation.

Four employees needed to be accommodated. The doc was travelling with his wife. So that is two people right there, can't be 3 others.

 

[Gilly]

Four employees needed to be accommodated. The doc was travelling with his wife. So that is two people right there, can't be 3 others.

It was three people that left without incident, the doctor claimed he was selected because he was chinese and if he was travelling with a partner it would have been a male.

 

[Black Zero]

Hope you look forward to higher ticket prices in that case. Simple economics.

Simple Capitalism ...
Airlines would come up with better and fair solution.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Simple Capitalism ...
Airlines would come up with better and fair solution.

Lol in this day of age with merging airlines (less competition) and soaring profits, best of luck getting airlines to go out of their way to keep prices low.

 

[ShahKhan007]

Never argue with Asian man or woman who is taking a train, bus and now airplane. No matter how crowded and how many other options Asians will find a way to cramp in like its a life and death situation. I guess the tendancy comes from the overcrowding in Southeast Asia.

 

[Yossarian]

That's actually what should be done...that would prevent such a situation arising...and that is the airlines being greedy...

What I don't know is what staff can do given the situation they were presented...how do you remove a fully grown man who refuses to leave?...

The airline should have to do a rising auction, whereby they keep on increasing the level of compensation on offer until someone bites.

Before you say "what if no one bit", note that I made no mention of an upper limit of the value of compensation. If the compensation level kept rising then, at some stage the airline/crew would then be presented with a choice between the level of compensation offered versus finding an alternative solution for getting the four United employees to their destination, even if it meant chartering another plane for them!

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you're ever being dragged against your will, use these moves... <a href="https://t.co/gwxjeGGjIn">pic.twitter.com/gwxjeGGjIn</a></p>— 120 Sports (@120Sports) <a href="https://twitter.com/120Sports/status/852230301635928064">12 April 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[shaykh]

The airline should have to do a rising auction, whereby they keep on increasing the level of compensation on offer until someone bites.

Before you say "what if no one bit", note that I made no mention of an upper limit of the value of compensation. If the compensation level kept rising then, at some stage the airline/crew would then be presented with a choice between the level of compensation offered versus finding an alternative solution for getting the four United employees to their destination, even if it meant chartering another plane for them!

Well they raised it three times...and no-one bit...

From my understanding there is a limit to the amount of compensation that can be offered...for all we know the staff didn't have the authority to do that at the time...i could be wrong of course...

But after three attempts they decided on a random selection of four passengers...

Its infuriating to be selected but three people chose to be flexible and the other chose to create a scene...he was asked politely like the others and refused...

In hindsight maybe your rising number idea would have worked...but having chosen the random selection it only seemed fair at that point that the customer show some flexibility...he was given warning that he would be removed forcefully if he didnt agree to leave...

 

[IMMY69]

one hundred people can volunteer to leave, makes no difference...

If one person wants to stay he should have been allowed to remain.

The airline simply cannot remove a passenger for anyone once they have boarded the plane.
Let alone use the force that they did.

 

[Specialisttailender]

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you're ever being dragged against your will, use these moves... <a href="https://t.co/gwxjeGGjIn">pic.twitter.com/gwxjeGGjIn</a></p>— 120 Sports (@120Sports) <a href="https://twitter.com/120Sports/status/852230301635928064">12 April 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This idiot wants passenger's dead body to be dragged out of the plane.

 

[Specialisttailender]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">These airlines reveal what they really mean by unbeatable prices. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UnitedAirlines?src=hash">#UnitedAirlines</a> <a href="https://t.co/lpZDu3ILW1">pic.twitter.com/lpZDu3ILW1</a></p>— Arré (@ArreTweets) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArreTweets/status/852072615069892608">April 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Nostalgic]

 

[Yossarian]

Well they raised it three times...and no-one bit...

From my understanding there is a limit to the amount of compensation that can be offered...for all we know the staff didn't have the authority to do that at the time...i could be wrong of course...

But after three attempts they decided on a random selection of four passengers...

Its infuriating to be selected but three people chose to be flexible and the other chose to create a scene...he was asked politely like the others and refused...

In hindsight maybe your rising number idea would have worked...but having chosen the random selection it only seemed fair at that point that the customer show some flexibility...he was given warning that he would be removed forcefully if he didnt agree to leave...

The airline should'nt have made the decision to force any removals (other than those who volunteered) once the passengers were already on the plane. Apart from the overbooking, it was the fault of the four United employees for arriving late after the passengers had already boarded.

It was then United's problem, and not the passengers who refused to volunteer, in finding an alternative solution for getting the four United employees to their destination, even if it meant chartering another plane for them if it was that critical timewise!

 

[Robert]

The airline simply cannot remove a passenger for anyone once they have boarded the plane.
Let alone use the force that they did.

Quite clearly, they can.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If the passenger was randomly picked, then we should blame probability, not racism.

 

[IMMY69]

Quite clearly, they can.

At some expense

 

[shaykh]

One retort I've heard is that it should have been the staff that should have been removed ...

Were they staff who were necessary for the flight or were they simply being sent somewhere else?...

 

[shaz619]

One retort I've heard is that it should have been the staff that should have been removed ...

Were they staff who were necessary for the flight or were they simply being sent somewhere else?...

It wasn't anyone from the flight crew. And the guy who got kicked out was a doctor, he had to save patients that were dying; as a consequence lives have been lost beyond the physical and psychological harm which has been caused to him. You won't get that would you

 

[shaykh]

It wasn't anyone from the flight crew. And the guy who got kicked out was a doctor, he had to save patients that were dying; as a consequence lives have been lost beyond the physical and psychological harm which has been caused to him. You won't get that would you

Reread what I wrote ...I actually said that the retort was that the staff weren't part of the flight crew so it's been suggested that the flight crew should have been the ones who had given up their seats ...

As for the fact that he was a doctor ...the question is worth raising as to whether the airline staff should have asked everyone why they were on the flight and then deciding which four had the least important reasons ...thing is what you would have got is everyone would have given a 'legitimate' reason ...

On the doctor himself ...talk about milking a situation ...Sean Spicer level bs ...claiming this was more stressful than fleeing Vietnam on a boat when Saigon fell ...

 

[shaykh]

The airline should'nt have made the decision to force any removals (other than those who volunteered) once the passengers were already on the plane. Apart from the overbooking, it was the fault of the four United employees for arriving late after the passengers had already boarded.

It was then United's problem, and not the passengers who refused to volunteer, in finding an alternative solution for getting the four United employees to their destination, even if it meant chartering another plane for them if it cwas that critical timewise!

I agree with this ...

 

[James]

Can't they just do a tannoy announcement offering business class seats on the next flight for 4 patient passengers? Surely out of 2010 people, statistically 4 (less than 2.5%) will go for it, and then no stock crashing and no implicitly racist beatings necessary.

 

[shaz619]

Reread what I wrote ...I actually said that the retort was that the staff weren't part of the flight crew so it's been suggested that the flight crew should have been the ones who had given up their seats ...

As for the fact that he was a doctor ...the question is worth raising as to whether the airline staff should have asked everyone why they were on the flight and then deciding which four had the least important reasons ...thing is what you would have got is everyone would have given a 'legitimate' reason ...

On the doctor himself ...talk about milking a situation ...Sean Spicer level bs ...claiming this was more stressful than fleeing Vietnam on a boat when Saigon fell ...

That was disgusting though, I know you're a fan of boxing and seeing gore in general must be a norm but come on mate they beat him like a dog; obviously perhaps the Vietnam thing taking it a bit too far but in the moment can you blame someone when they've been violated like that.

 

[shaykh]

That was disgusting though, I know you're a fan of boxing and seeing gore in general must be a norm but come on mate they beat him like a dog; obviously perhaps the Vietnam thing taking it a bit too far but in the moment can you blame someone when they've been violated like that.

I'll say it again...how to remove a grown man who refuses to move...he was asked politely and then didnt budge...the use of force was a last resort...the fact he got knocked out wasn't deliberate...he should have just co-operated like the other three did...

I've known people who have been staff on airlines...and ive seen how rude people are to staff over things like delays etc...they were left with an unfortunate situation and as humans they made some mistakes...

We are all offering solutions for what they should have done...but in the moment they chose the 'random' thing which they thought was fair...three people left who may also have had legitimate reasons for getting to their location early...and were probably very disgruntled...but they chose to be flexible...

This guy chose to be inflexible and his now milking of the situation makes him an even less sympathetic character...seriously he's saying this is worse than Saigon...and his family are having press conferences...pathetic frankly...

 

[shaykh]

Can't they just do a tannoy announcement offering business class seats on the next flight for 4 patient passengers? Surely out of 2010 people, statistically 4 (less than 2.5%) will go for it, and then no stock crashing and no implicitly racist beatings necessary.

'Racist' beatings?...this line of argument seems to be pervasive at the moment...which includes the passengers milking of the Vietnam war...if it was a white guy who refused to leave he also would have had force applied...

 

[shaz619]

I'll say it again...how to remove a grown man who refuses to move...he was asked politely and then didnt budge...the use of force was a last resort...the fact he got knocked out wasn't deliberate...he should have just co-operated like the other three did...

I've known people who have been staff on airlines...and ive seen how rude people are to staff over things like delays etc...they were left with an unfortunate situation and as humans they made some mistakes...

We are all offering solutions for what they should have done...but in the moment they chose the 'random' thing which they thought was fair...three people left who may also have had legitimate reasons for getting to their location early...and were probably very disgruntled...but they chose to be flexible...

This guy chose to be inflexible and his now milking of the situation makes him an even less sympathetic character...seriously he's saying this is worse than Saigon...and his family are having press conferences...pathetic frankly...

You know with stuff like this in general 99% of the time you always go against the grain, assuming this man was completely in the wrong just as you say; was the way they dealt with him justified? hell no! they beat him like a dog and then dragged his lifeless body out! you would only be less sympathetic towards him and his family with the press conferences etc if you are sympathetic towards United Airlines; why the hell shouldn't he milk it? he should use every opportunity to defame United Airlines after what they done to him they deserve it! they violated him! he should sue the hell out of them as well.

 

[shaykh]

You know with stuff like this in general 99% of the time you always go against the grain, assuming this man was completely in the wrong just as you say; was the way they dealt with him justified? hell no! they beat him like a dog and then dragged his lifeless body out! you would only be less sympathetic towards him and his family with the press conferences etc if you are sympathetic towards United Airlines; why the hell shouldn't he milk it? he should use every opportunity to defame United Airlines after what they done to him they deserve it! they violated him! he should sue the hell out of them as well.

I don't think he was wrong to be annoyed or upset...but he should have left...again the decision had been made to go with a random selection...we can speculate as to whether that was a good idea or not...but that's what they chose...

3 people who were also likely upset as any of us would were flexible and left...can you at least accept that the guy was being inflexible?...when you are told you will be forcefully removed then you accept that and go peacefully...most of us would have done that...and he isn't the Vietnamese Rosa Parks for trying to stay on the plane...

What I find tasteless about the aftermath is the fact that he is comparing this to the Vietnam war...evidently that war wasn't that bad for him...

And no you don't need to be sympathetic to United Airlines to state that this guy could have handled this situation differently...just like the three people who left...who were likely as deserving as he was to stay on the plane...

 

[shaykh]

This is worth a read:

Lawyer here. This myth that passengers don’t have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.

First of all, it’s airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about “OVERSALES”, specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it’s clear that what they did was illegal– they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you’ve boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn’t have been targeted. He’s going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.

If all this is correct then this a royal cock up...and he's gonna walk away with a lot of money...

 

[shaz619]

I don't think he was wrong to be annoyed or upset...but he should have left...again the decision had been made to go with a random selection...we can speculate as to whether that was a good idea or not...but that's what they chose...

3 people who were also likely upset as any of us would were flexible and left...can you at least accept that the guy was being inflexible?...when you are told you will be forcefully removed then you accept that and go peacefully...most of us would have done that...and he isn't the Vietnamese Rosa Parks for trying to stay on the plane...

What I find tasteless about the aftermath is the fact that he is comparing this to the Vietnam war...evidently that war wasn't that bad for him...

And no you don't need to be sympathetic to United Airlines to state that this guy could have handled this situation differently...just like the three people who left...who were likely as deserving as he was to stay on the plane...

Yes so based on the fact that he was violated he should sue them and defame United every chance he gets, however I do agree that it probably wasn't wise to bring in the Vietnam war

 

[IMMY69]

This is worth a read:



If all this is correct then this a royal cock up...and he's gonna walk away with a lot of money...

Blimey...

You could hVe saved yourself so much time and effort by just reading my earlier posts.

I don't pretend to know much BUT I know this case and I know that United are bang to rights on this one.

Whether it's on time pass, sports corner or cricket related, you will be well advised to just read my posts and ignore everything else.

Thank you and good night

 

[shaykh]

Yes so based on the fact that he was violated he should sue them and defame United every chance he gets, however I do agree that it probably wasn't wise to bring in the Vietnam war

Sometimes even when you're not in the wrong it's better to just toe the line...

An example...on exiting a recent flight I was stopped and held for questioning...I may not have been selected at random...i spoke politely...answered the questions I was asked politely and after a bit of a wait I was sent on my way...

Now I could have made a fuss about why I had been selected...I could have spoken aggressively when questioned and the likely result was that I would have been sent back from where i had come...

What i'm saying here is the threat of force was made...he should have got up...and he shouldn't have tried to get back on after he had been removed...it's a battle he was never going to win...

Bouncers sometimes dont let you in a club...you can kick up a fuss if you want but the result will be the same...you aren't getting in the club...

But hey maybe i'm wrong cos it does seem the doc can milk this money wise if the airline broke the law...

 

[shaz619]

Sometimes even when you're not in the wrong it's better to just toe the line...

An example...on exiting a recent flight I was stopped and held for questioning...I may not have been selected at random...i spoke politely...answered the questions I was asked politely and after a bit of a wait I was sent on my way...

Now I could have made a fuss about why I had been selected...I could have spoken aggressively when questioned and the likely result was that I would have been sent back from where i had come...

What i'm saying here is the threat of force was made...he should have got up...and he shouldn't have tried to get back on after he had been removed...it's a battle he was never going to win...

Bouncers sometimes dont let you in a club...you can kick up a fuss if you want but the result will be the same...you aren't getting in the club...

But hey maybe i'm wrong cos it does seem the doc can milk this money wise if the airline broke the law...

Absolute nonsense.

The FACT is this, the man was VIOLATED, the END RESULT is that psychological and physical harm was done to him. He is well within his right to sue the airline and get them back for what was done to him. You speak of the shoulda, coulda, woulda but the end result is this and that is the man was VIOLENTLY attacked. Am sorry but I think it is incredibly sickening if people think that the oppressor should be allowed to get away with this, people need to show some humanity; people are being attacked and we're trying to sugar coat the people who committed the crime because the one who was attacked has a "victim mentality" that's your typical line isn't it, if you are coloured then you don't deserve justice you need to "get on with it"....your views generally

 

[shaykh]

Absolute nonsense.

The FACT is this, the man was VIOLATED, the END RESULT is that psychological and physical harm was done to him. He is well within his right to sue the airline and get them back for what was done to him. You speak of the shoulda, coulda, woulda but the end result is this and that is the man was VIOLENTLY attacked. Am sorry but I think it is incredibly sickening if people think that the oppressor should be allowed to get away with this, people need to show some humanity; people are being attacked and we're trying to sugar coat the people who committed the crime because the one who was attacked has a "victim mentality" that's your typical line isn't it, if you are coloured then you don't deserve justice you need to "get on with it"....your views generally

A long winded post with little substance...life is unfair sometimes...and one needs to learn to pick their battles...

The 'assault' btw involved the officer pulling Dao off his seat and Dao inadvertently hitting his head...judging by the outrage you would think he was shot in cold blood...

 

[shaz619]

A long winded post with little substance...life is unfair sometimes...and one needs to learn to pick their battles...

The 'assault' btw involved the officer pulling Dao off his seat and Dao inadvertently hitting his head...judging by the outrage you would think he was shot in cold blood...

You are the king of long winded posts which you try to brainwash people with but 99% of your arguments are completely nonsensical and I question your moral compass in general when it comes to your ideas, you come across as someone who would be fine living under the rule of Hitler if am honest so there's no use going around in circles with someone who will always hold the opposing view when it comes to people who are oppressed because they should "pick their battles" (yeah imagine saying that to Rosa Parks) in the face of bigotry and when violated they should be demonised for getting back at those who are responsible for the injustice.

 

[shaykh]

You are the king of long winded posts which you try to brainwash people with but 99% of your arguments are completely nonsensical and I question your moral compass in general when it comes to your ideas, you come across as someone who would be fine living under the rule of Hitler if am honest so there's no use going around in circles with someone who will always hold the opposing view when it comes to people who are oppressed because they should "pick their battles" (yeah imagine saying that to Rosa Parks) in the face of bigotry and when violated they should be demonised for getting back at those who are responsible for the injustice.

Honestly calling this 'oppression' and comparing this to 'Rosa Parks' is gross sensationalism really...watching a few too many Spicer clips...I mean you even managed to fit in Hitler into your post ...

 

[shaz619]

Honestly calling this 'oppression' and comparing this to 'Rosa Parks' is gross sensationalism really...watching a few too many Spicer clips...I mean you even managed to fit in Hitler into your post ...

I get that you're not a smart fella but come on, with regards to Hitler and Rosa Parks you've failed to get the sentiment and specific points; you have to try and make a direct comparison yourself to conceal the fallacies of your own thoughts which reek of ignorance. You strike me as someone who watches trump presidency campaign promo clips on loop. Eventually I will get to root of your hatred for coloured people and muslims, I see through you you're being broken down and exposed piece by piece....

 

[shaykh]

I get that you're not a smart fella but come on, with regards to Hitler and Rosa Parks you've failed to get the sentiment and specific points; you have to try and make a direct comparison yourself to conceal the fallacies of your own thoughts which reek of ignorance. You strike me as someone who watches trump presidency campaign promo clips on loop. Eventually I will get to root of your hatred for coloured people and muslims, I see through you you're being broken down and exposed piece by piece....

You clearly missed my point in the other thread...and it's odd because I actually praised 'coloured' people...

So let's see if this makes more sense to you...in terms of education the worst performing group by a serious margin are WHITE travelers...the top performing groups by some margin are Africans (mainly Nigerian), Chinese and Indians...they outperform British white people easily...

The importance of culture and success is important...and it's always worth looking inwardly at these things...cos you will notice making things all about race is a simplification...

Nigerians arrive here working class, they are black and face the same discrimination that Caribbeans face yet they outdo their Caribbean counterparts in areas such as education, are not involved disproportionately involved in criminality etc...the same parallels can be made when discussing Indians in comparison to Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK...Pakistanis in the US fare much better...

Point is emphasis on education and hard work is more prevalent in some cultures as is integration...what makes white travelers the worst performing group in education, employment etc?...culture is a contributory factor when determining success...

And my point is it's just not productive to wallow in self pity...rather than focusing solely on institutional racism there should be a focus on emphasising success...because many blacks and asians are indeed successful in spite of discrimination etc...providing inspiration and examples is simply more productive...

If you think this is bigoted then so be it...