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Unlucky Rahat Ali

He is a good bowler. Still young enough to get better and consistent. I hope they play him next test. He will be needed when we tour abroad next year.
 
Doesn't have the mentality, yes he got unlucky but what sort of death bowling was that. No point in having skills if your head drops like his, rivaled only by Sami.

The self-proclaimed fast bowling experts on this forum who are not worth any salt so to speak, need to get over with the idea that he will come good in the long-term.
 
He's cursed after that drop of Watson, will never be able to make a difference in any form of the game.

A complete liability in all three departments, kick him out for good.
 
He was expensive today but apart from Aamir who wasn't?

Also would of won us the game if it weren't for Billy.
 
Unlucky ali :))) what an apt name for him!!!

Reminds me of badluck aur boredom ka brand ambassador Mr. Bhaskar from the movie partner.
 
Still would take a Junaid over Rahat (he is such a Terrible bowler won't even make it to the Indian side)

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
Mamoon said:
Doesn't have the mentality, yes he got unlucky but what sort of death bowling was that. No point in having skills if your head drops like his, rivaled only by Sami.

The self-proclaimed fast bowling experts on this forum who are not worth any salt so to speak, need to get over with the idea that he will come good in the long-term.
Click to expand...

If it were only as simple as that. The world's best coach Waqar Younis believes in him too. As does the PCB it seems. And aren't you usually of the opinion that they know what they are doing?
 
LegendAli said:
He was expensive today but apart from Aamir who wasn't?

Also would of won us the game if it weren't for Billy.
Click to expand...

What you mean to say is that he is mediocre like Wahab and Irfan. And he would have won us the game by taking that one wicket if he hadn't otherwise helped loose the game. Averages 36 now in ODIs. The future is bright surely.
 
aloo paratha said:
He's been ok. Usually goes for 25 or 30 in first 3 overs of his spell then comes back taking a few wickets and ending with 2-3/60
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Interesting that you have that impression. He's taken 3 fer twice in his 14 match ODI career. Six times, ie 'usually' he takes 1 wicket. Averages 36. In my book not OK. And I'd say he's had his 'chance'
 
New Yorker said:
If it were only as simple as that. The world's best coach Waqar Younis believes in him too. As does the PCB it seems. And aren't you usually of the opinion that they know what they are doing?
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing lack of alternatives with evaluation. If you sit down with Waqar and honestly ask him what he makes of Rahat, I think you will not be surprised with what he says. He is someone who shared the dressing room with Imran, Wasim, Shoaib and later on worked with the likes of Asif.

The only reason the selectors/management etc. are persisting with Champions of Mediocrity like Junaid, Rahat, Wahab, Irfan etc. is because our talent pool is dried and most of the bowlers waiting in the queue are worse.

That really does not mean that they are considered world class bowlers by the management. If they really thought highly of the current pace options, a tainted player like Amir would not have been brought back and in fact, the Chief Selector's recent statement where he said that he is much more talented than the other bowlers sums up what they think of our current pace options.
 
As soon as I saw his name in the 11, I knew he would go for plenty of runs and he didn't disappoint.

To think, he was upset at not getting a PSL contract and Waqar was trying his best to get him one, but he failed and the franchises were simply not interested.
 
Mamoon said:
I think you are confusing lack of alternatives with evaluation. If you sit down with Waqar and honestly ask him what he makes of Rahat, I think you will not be surprised with what he says. He is someone who shared the dressing room with Imran, Wasim, Shoaib and later on worked with the likes of Asif.

The only reason the selectors/management etc. are persisting with Champions of Mediocrity like Junaid, Rahat, Wahab, Irfan etc. is because our talent pool is dried and most of the bowlers waiting in the queue are worse.

That really does not mean that they are considered world class bowlers by the management. If they really thought highly of the current pace options, a tainted player like Amir would not have been brought back and in fact, the Chief Selector's recent statement where he said that he is much more talented than the other bowlers sums up what they think of our current pace options.
Click to expand...

Barragan said:
As soon as I saw his name in the 11, I knew he would go for plenty of runs and he didn't disappoint.

To think, he was upset at not getting a PSL contract and Waqar was trying his best to get him one, but he failed and the franchises were simply not interested.
Click to expand...

Sadaf , Hassan, Shehzad Azam & Sohail Khan are not better than Mohammad Amir but all are better than Rahat , Irfan and Anwar Ali. This is a fact. You just cannot put 41 wickets in 16 games into dustbin. No more. Selectors will be bent now and so too the team management. Justice should prevail. The best 16 squad be member of squad. Anwar , Rahat & Irfan aren't the best in pakistan.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Sadaf , Hassan, Shehzad Azam & Sohail Khan are not better than Mohammad Amir but all are better than Rahat , Irfan and Anwar Ali. This is a fact. You just cannot put 41 wickets in 16 games into dustbin. No more. Selectors will be bent now and so too the team management. Justice should prevail. The best 16 squad be member of squad. Anwar , Rahat & Irfan aren't the best in pakistan.
Click to expand...

Sohail is better than rahat, no doubt.

Don't know why Sadaf isn't getting selected.
 
Barragan said:
Sohail is better than rahat, no doubt.

Don't know why Sadaf isn't getting selected.
Click to expand...

InshaAllah he will be in pakistan A list A and four day squad to England. Atleast in one of them. He will enjoy those conditions and would be amongst the wickets I.A.

Best domestic one day bowler for consecutive years + 38 wickets in QEA. He has pushed selectors to a level where they simply cannot ignore him.

Hope now off season he improves his physique & fitness further.
 
Only God gifted talented player to emerge from Pakistan in last 15 years and to boot banned for 5 years of cricket service and still be the best bowler on show !!! It just proves that Pakistan domestic structure produces only mediocre Bowlers in great numbers.
It supports Imran Khans theory that domestic structures will not produce great technically gifted players, unless those individuals work their *** off specifically batsman.
Over all standard is so so poor.
 
Mamoon said:
I think you are confusing lack of alternatives with evaluation. If you sit down with Waqar and honestly ask him what he makes of Rahat, I think you will not be surprised with what he says. He is someone who shared the dressing room with Imran, Wasim, Shoaib and later on worked with the likes of Asif.

The only reason the selectors/management etc. are persisting with Champions of Mediocrity like Junaid, Rahat, Wahab, Irfan etc. is because our talent pool is dried and most of the bowlers waiting in the queue are worse.

That really does not mean that they are considered world class bowlers by the management. If they really thought highly of the current pace options, a tainted player like Amir would not have been brought back and in fact, the Chief Selector's recent statement where he said that he is much more talented than the other bowlers sums up what they think of our current pace options.
Click to expand...

There are too many facile assumptions at work in your argument for it to sit comfortably with me. They may not appear as facile to you and others because they are grim. We often confuse pessimism with truth. Even worse we believe that it is the truth of a matter that we are looking for.

To me a statement like our talent pool is drained is neither here nor there. The problem is not that it is untrue but useless. If the existing options have been exhausted and proven lacking then it is time to try new alternatives. These too may fail, but they cannot be said to have failed until they have been tried.

What perplexes me about the way the system is currently working is that the best performers from the domestic are not necessarily the ones who are given a go. Instead we have precisely Rahat, and, if you were to have your way, Hamza, who is a fine FC prospect, but mediocre in LA domestics.

It is very telling that someone like Bazid Khan says that he does not trust the system. Many would probably agree with him. But trust the system with what? To identify world class performers? How could one ever be sure that domestic performance would translate into international success?

The main criteria of a good system is that it works systematically. Then one can with time begin to evaluate how it is performing. And make adjustments and improvements accordingly. In other words, if one does not take one's own system seriously, however poor it may be, then that system will continue to rot.

The real question that needs to be asked is NOT: is there or is there talent left in Pakistan. Rather, what does one need to know to make that system better? If the selectors believe that Pakistan is eternally stuck with the choices of Junaid, Rahat and Irfan then the first step should be to get new selectors.
 
Last edited:
[MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]

All fair points, and you have the right to call it facile or pessimistic, but to me and a lot of others, it is clear that we are no longer producing the same caliber of players as we did in yesteryears.

As I was talking to another poster a few days back, I named 25 different players that have been given a go since the CT disaster in 2013 (debutants or players with little prior experience):

Shehzad
Jamshed
Maqsood
Rizwan
Sarfraz
Mohmand
Fawad
Haris
Raza
Yasir
Zulfiqar
Babar Azam
Hammad
Ehsan
Sohail Khan
Imran Khan Jr.
Anwar
Bhatti
Yamin
Bilal Asif
Talha
Sharjeel
Sami Aslam
Zafar
Shinwari

Let's face it: hardly 3/4 of these players have proved to be a success if we are being generous while the likes of Babar, Adil and Zafar etc. are work in progress. On the contrary, A good chunk of these players have showed that they are not good enough for this level. Isn't this alarming? 25 players in 3 years and not one of them has gone on to become a world class player. Yasir perhaps, but we don't know if he will be out for 6 months, 2 years or 4 years.

If this doesn't indicate that the cupboard is empty, what will?

3 years ago, in a thread here, everyone agreed that Shehzad and Jamshed is the way forward as far as openers are concerned, and the selectors were vehemently criticized for persisting with the likes of Farhat and Jamshed. Today, where do they stand?

Similarly, Maqsood was hot property in domestic cricket. Look at him now.

The fact that a player from 1999 (Malik) has been your best middle-order batsman for nearly a year sums up the present generation.

Kamran Akmal made his debut in 2002 and in the last 16 years, we have struggled to produce a quality Limited Overs WK batsman who can terminally end his career. It isn't Kamran's or the selector's fault that he remains in contention; it is simply the lack of available talent.

Now some will say that the right players have not been selected or they haven't been given enough chances. These right players include the likes of Fawad, Sadaf etc. The question is, who decides who is the right player or the wrong player? That is the job of the selectors, and I can empathize with the selectors if they feel apprehensive in giving new talents a chance given the fact that the success rate has been very low in the last few years, and that is why people like Bazid do not trust the system and I like many others, concur.

Why the system is faulty is never ending debate that has been going on for decades, and is beyond the scope of the management and selectors who are the point of discussion.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]

All fair points, and you have the right to call it facile or pessimistic, but to me and a lot of others, it is clear that we are no longer producing the same caliber of players as we did in yesteryears.

As I was talking to another poster a few days back, I named 25 different players that have been given a go since the CT disaster in 2013 (debutants or players with little prior experience):

Shehzad
Jamshed
Maqsood
Rizwan
Sarfraz
Mohmand
Fawad
Haris
Raza
Yasir
Zulfiqar
Babar Azam
Hammad
Ehsan
Sohail Khan
Imran Khan Jr.
Anwar
Bhatti
Yamin
Bilal Asif
Talha
Sharjeel
Sami Aslam
Zafar
Shinwari

Let's face it: hardly 3/4 of these players have proved to be a success if we are being generous while the likes of Babar, Adil and Zafar etc. are work in progress. On the contrary, A good chunk of these players have showed that they are not good enough for this level. Isn't this alarming? 25 players in 3 years and not one of them has gone on to become a world class player. Yasir perhaps, but we don't know if he will be out for 6 months, 2 years or 4 years.

If this doesn't indicate that the cupboard is empty, what will?

3 years ago, in a thread here, everyone agreed that Shehzad and Jamshed is the way forward as far as openers are concerned, and the selectors were vehemently criticized for persisting with the likes of Farhat and Jamshed. Today, where do they stand?

Similarly, Maqsood was hot property in domestic cricket. Look at him now.

The fact that a player from 1999 (Malik) has been your best middle-order batsman for nearly a year sums up the present generation.

Kamran Akmal made his debut in 2002 and in the last 16 years, we have struggled to produce a quality Limited Overs WK batsman who can terminally end his career. It isn't Kamran's or the selector's fault that he remains in contention; it is simply the lack of available talent.

Now some will say that the right players have not been selected or they haven't been given enough chances. These right players include the likes of Fawad, Sadaf etc. The question is, who decides who is the right player or the wrong player? That is the job of the selectors, and I can empathize with the selectors if they feel apprehensive in giving new talents a chance given the fact that the success rate has been very low in the last few years, and that is why people like Bazid do not trust the system and I like many others, concur.

Why the system is faulty is never ending debate that has been going on for decades, and is beyond the scope of the management and selectors who are the point of discussion.
Click to expand...

Listen of course I understand where you are coming from. I too am disappointed, if not perhaps so grievously. Amir, Asif, Yasir is not just a decent bunch of bowlers;they could well (have) be(en) the best attack in the world, together with Sadaf or Sohail or Imran Khan etc. Babar, Harris, Fawad, Umar Amin could yet a decent middle order make.

But it is again this statement of the cupboard being empty that feels so misplaced. 'Cupboard', 'pipeline,' etc always connotes in part what we 'have in store,' what is not quite yet there but emerging. It is a statement always with one foot already in the future. And we can't know what the future holds until we get there. The problem is not that it is true or false; the problem is that its very tense is off, and will always be off.

Babar's emergence is a perfect example. Suddenly after one performance people are talking about the cupboard not being as bare as they thought it was. It is silly to think that now all will be fine, but what is palpable is the feeling that something or someone could yet emerge that will change how we look at the team's prospects. There is no reason that history should be destiny.

Maybe I should have been clearer re my comment about the system. What is problematic to me is not players who get selected fail. Nor is the problem that the right or the 'wrong' players were selected. It is that the process itself is haphazard. Selecting Rahat in ODIs is the perfect example. There are lots of others in your list. Because the selectors mistrust the system. So they don't listen to the system. Which does not improve the system. Because they ARE the system. It's a vicious circle.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]

All fair points, and you have the right to call it facile or pessimistic, but to me and a lot of others, it is clear that we are no longer producing the same caliber of players as we did in yesteryears.

As I was talking to another poster a few days back, I named 25 different players that have been given a go since the CT disaster in 2013 (debutants or players with little prior experience):

Shehzad
Jamshed
Maqsood
Rizwan
Sarfraz
Mohmand
Fawad
Haris
Raza
Yasir
Zulfiqar
Babar Azam
Hammad
Ehsan
Sohail Khan
Imran Khan Jr.
Anwar
Bhatti
Yamin
Bilal Asif
Talha
Sharjeel
Sami Aslam
Zafar
Shinwari

Let's face it: hardly 3/4 of these players have proved to be a success if we are being generous while the likes of Babar, Adil and Zafar etc. are work in progress. On the contrary, A good chunk of these players have showed that they are not good enough for this level. Isn't this alarming? 25 players in 3 years and not one of them has gone on to become a world class player. Yasir perhaps, but we don't know if he will be out for 6 months, 2 years or 4 years.

If this doesn't indicate that the cupboard is empty, what will?

3 years ago, in a thread here, everyone agreed that Shehzad and Jamshed is the way forward as far as openers are concerned, and the selectors were vehemently criticized for persisting with the likes of Farhat and Jamshed. Today, where do they stand?

Similarly, Maqsood was hot property in domestic cricket. Look at him now.

The fact that a player from 1999 (Malik) has been your best middle-order batsman for nearly a year sums up the present generation.

Kamran Akmal made his debut in 2002 and in the last 16 years, we have struggled to produce a quality Limited Overs WK batsman who can terminally end his career. It isn't Kamran's or the selector's fault that he remains in contention; it is simply the lack of available talent.

Now some will say that the right players have not been selected or they haven't been given enough chances. These right players include the likes of Fawad, Sadaf etc. The question is, who decides who is the right player or the wrong player? That is the job of the selectors, and I can empathize with the selectors if they feel apprehensive in giving new talents a chance given the fact that the success rate has been very low in the last few years, and that is why people like Bazid do not trust the system and I like many others, concur.

Why the system is faulty is never ending debate that has been going on for decades, and is beyond the scope of the management and selectors who are the point of discussion.
Click to expand...

Going over your list, it seems to me that none of the following names could or should be written
off as failures, yet. Some are outright promising. I count 17, out 25. Hardly a disaster. True only
Yasir has really set the rankings on fire, but there are quite a few names that merit selection by
now. It's true the search for reliable openers continues; I don't think the wicketkeeper position
is a high order concern actually. Sarfraz has been going at 34 for the past year, which is perfectly
serviceable. Akmal still has a shot because the batting overall is weak, and he's a possible opener
as I understand it. But it's a little bit too easy to damn the whole nation because those skill sets
are missing. And to read this as a list of failures.

Rizwan
Sarfraz
Fawad
Haris
Yasir
Azam
Hammad
Ehsan
Sohail Khan
Imran Khan Jr.
Yamin
Bilal Asif
Sharjeel
Sami Aslam
Zafar
 
Madplayer said:
Unlucky ali :))) what an apt name for him!!!

Reminds me of badluck aur boredom ka brand ambassador Mr. Bhaskar from the movie partner.
Click to expand...

I rememeber randomly calling him "Unlucky Rahat Ali" in my thread and it caught on. Now, unlucky is his nick name here lol

I still believe he can come back, has both pace and swing
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=139754]

Shehzad
Jamshed
Maqsood
Rizwan
Sarfraz
Mohmand
Fawad
Haris
Raza
Yasir
Zulfiqar
Babar Azam
Hammad
Ehsan
Sohail Khan
Imran Khan Jr.
Anwar
Bhatti
Yamin
Bilal Asif
Talha
Sharjeel
Sami Aslam
Zafar
Shinwari
.
Click to expand...

These poor players haven't even been given a proper run.
 
I'm sorry but Rahat isn't a bad bowler at all. He will be a handful in overcast conditions. I actually really like his bowling action and I think he can easily place the ball where he wants at decent pace. Quite an underrated guy tbh. It's his own fault really, needs to brighten up a bit
 
Rana said:
I'm sorry but Rahat isn't a bad bowler at all. He will be a handful in overcast conditions. I actually really like his bowling action and I think he can easily place the ball where he wants at decent pace. Quite an underrated guy tbh. It's his own fault really, needs to brighten up a bit
Click to expand...

He's just too soft.
 
He got a game after a long break and people expected him to outclass all other bowlers. That's unfair to him.
 
He should be with the squad, and our bowling coaches should work with him. Don't waste this guy.
 
That was his first game after 2015 World Cup if i remember correctly. Just give him a consistent run if he doesn't show improvement then drop him.
 
aukhan said:
That was his first game after 2015 World Cup if i remember correctly. Just give him a consistent run if he doesn't show improvement then drop him.
Click to expand...

When i see this guy bowl. He sees to have ideal action, run up and decent pace as he can clock up to 140 142 mark. Should be given a fair run abd not dropped on basis of one or two bad performances. Hopefully Waqar works further with Rahat.
 
Hamzakhalid said:
When i see this guy bowl. He sees to have ideal action, run up and decent pace as he can clock up to 140 142 mark. Should be given a fair run abd not dropped on basis of one or two bad performances. Hopefully Waqar works further with Rahat.
Click to expand...

What is a fair run? He's had 14 games already. Don't you think it's unfair to bowlers in domestics with better stats than him? Is it not unfair to fans who want to see the team win?
 
New Yorker said:
What is a fair run? He's had 14 games already. Don't you think it's unfair to bowlers in domestics with better stats than him? Is it not unfair to fans who want to see the team win?
Click to expand...

How many successive games did he play?
 
The problem is that out of the blue he played 1 game. Now he might get an odi game after 6 months. Its not easy to play in NZ grounds out of the blue.

He can swing the ball and has good speed. Should stick with him and give him 3 full series.
 
New Yorker said:
What is a fair run? He's had 14 games already. Don't you think it's unfair to bowlers in domestics with better stats than him? Is it not unfair to fans who want to see the team win?
Click to expand...

Yeah 14 games including pressure world cup matches where he delivered. But after one or two bad games in BD Phattas he was dropped immediately. Is this a fair run?
 
Hamzakhalid said:
Yeah 14 games including pressure world cup matches where he delivered. But after one or two bad games in BD Phattas he was dropped immediately. Is this a fair run?
Click to expand...

Out of those 14 matches he has taken only 1 wicket six times and 0 wickets twice. Never done better than 3 wickets. Averages 36. In domestics there were always 3 or 4 bowlers who were far better than him. He's had 14 more chances than Sadaf and Abbas and Taj Wali and Hassan Ali. I ask again, where is the fairness to those bowlers? The idea that he should be given 3 more ODI series is ludicrous. I agree he looks good. Everyone agrees he looks good. And if he were the only bowler in Pakistan and being fair to him were the only thing that mattered, then I would let him have 20 more chances. But. he does not. perform.
 
New Yorker said:
Out of those 14 matches he has taken only 1 wicket six times and 0 wickets twice. Never done better than 3 wickets. Averages 36. In domestics there were always 3 or 4 bowlers who were far better than him. He's had 14 more chances than Sadaf and Abbas and Taj Wali and Hassan Ali. I ask again, where is the fairness to those bowlers? The idea that he should be given 3 more ODI series is ludicrous. I agree he looks good. Everyone agrees he looks good. And if he were the only bowler in Pakistan and being fair to him were the only thing that mattered, then I would let him have 20 more chances. But. he does not. perform.
Click to expand...

Going by your views. Those other bowlers should have been given a go ahead of Amir even? Rahat has potential to be a very very special bowler hence heis selected. Must be persisted in playing though.
 
Hamzakhalid said:
Going by your views. Those other bowlers should have been given a go ahead of Amir even? Rahat has potential to be a very very special bowler hence heis selected. Must be persisted in playing though.
Click to expand...

He has the potential only in Tests. Not in limited overs cricket. Domestic stats don't lie most of the times.
 
Hamzakhalid said:
Going by your views. Those other bowlers should have been given a go ahead of Amir even? Rahat has potential to be a very very special bowler hence heis selected. Must be persisted in playing though.
Click to expand...

Eh. No. Just ahead of Rahat. I'll not get into an argument about potential. Umar Akmal has potential and always will. So what?
 
Rahat is unlucky to be not into even 15 memeber team. Much better bowler than Irfan IMO. Him and Amir would have been a good opening pair for WC
 
Both he and Irfan are not suited to...err...Cricket in general. Irfan's had his time and Rahat is better off singing for a career.
 
Sherlock said:
Both he and Irfan are not suited to...err...Cricket in general. Irfan's had his time and Rahat is better off singing for a career.
Click to expand...

The guy can swing it both ways. Has a pace of above 14okm/h. Not many come close in terms of caliber right now . Especially in terms of opening bowlers
 
The intelligent Supporter said:
The guy can swing it both ways. Has a pace of above 14okm/h. Not many come close in terms of caliber right now . Especially in terms of opening bowlers
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but that's a very ignorant comment if you've seen him bowl. Even the most ardent fan could tell you how inconsistently and poor he can be.

No use swinging it both ways if you don't know where the next ball will pitch. He himself said that too. The hype around him is laughable, if not tragic.
 
He is my fav.bowler at the moment.He is a good test bowler but should correct his length in Odis he bowls many short deliveries but can swing the new ball both ways and tall too he can become good new ball bowler in Lois.A good talent better than most of the bowlers in country.
 
Very good test bowler that too on flat UAE wickets. Have a feeling hell come good in ODIs too. Hes very skilfull but needs to stop that bad ball every over
 
I would honestly pick him over GUL any day

Guy has a knack of picking big ones...Him picking up cook and root was crucial for us

Fully aware of the condition been playing last month in England and pace is UP. Fitness is there can bat a little too (50 parternship with Soahil)

Unlucky not to be selected!
 
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