US boss fires 900 employees over Zoom

[Kroll]

Err, welcome to corporate America.

The boss of a US firm has been criticised after he fired around 900 of his staff on a single Zoom call.

"If you're on this call you're part of the unlucky group being laid off," said Vishal Garg, chief executive of mortgage firm Better.com, on the call, later uploaded to social media.

Comments on social media said it was "cold", "harsh" and "a horrible move", especially in the run up to Christmas.

"Last time I did [this] I cried," Mr Garg told the staff on the call.

"I wish the news were different. I wish we were thriving," he said. This time his tone was measured and he referred to notes on the desk in front of him.

Mr Garg said staff performance and productivity, and market changes lay behind the mass-firing of what he said was 15% of Better.com's workforce.

He didn't mention the $750m (£565m) cash infusion Better.com received from investors last week.

After the firing Fortune magazine confirmed that Mr Garg was the author of a previously written anonymous blog post in which he accused sacked staff at his firm of "stealing" from their colleagues and customers by being unproductive and only working two hours a day, while claiming for eight or more.

The company, which aims to use technology to make the housebuying process "faster and more efficient", is backed by Japanese conglomerate Softbank and is worth around $6bn (£4.53bn).

Mr Garg's management style has been criticised before, after an email that he sent to staff that was obtained by Forbes last year.

In the email, Mr Garb wrote: "You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS... SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME."

Not empathetic

Gemma Dale, lecturer in employment law and business studies at Liverpool John Moores University in the UK said this was "no way to lead an organisation".

A mass-firing like this would not be legal in the UK, she said.

"Just because you can do this in America, doesn't mean you should," she added.

"There are ways to do these things which, even in difficult conditions, are empathetic and decent."

It could harm the firm as well as its staff she said as "existing employees will look to how the company treats people as a signal to how it will treat them in the future".

"There are proper channels through which to deal with staff who aren't meeting the required standards or amounts of work and while employers are within their right to take the appropriate action, there is a right way to do these things both morally and legally".

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59554585

 

[topspin]

Indian manoeuvre from a CEO of Indian background.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It seems he has been intimidating staff for a lot longer, nothing more than a bully who thinks he special but really should look in the mirror.

 

[Lego20]

Indian manoeuvre from a CEO of Indian background.

When these Indian origins raise to the ranks of CEOs, the strawman argument is them being of American nationality and educational & corporate pedigree downplaying their Indian roots.

Now we flip it around and highlight his Indian roots when he does something that has negative perception.

Make up your mind! Acknowledge his Indian roots to ascribe his success if you also want to use the same to malign Indian values and background.

P. S. There is nothing wrong in what he has done regardless of his background. Its just a professional decision.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

When these Indian origins raise to the ranks of CEOs, the strawman argument is them being of American nationality and educational & corporate pedigree downplaying their Indian roots.

Now we flip it around and highlight his Indian roots when he does something that has negative perception.

Make up your mind! Acknowledge his Indian roots to ascribe his success if you also want to use the same to malign Indian values and background.

P. S. There is nothing wrong in what he has done regardless of his background. Its just a professional decision.

its not what he did, its how he did it. Their were better ways to handle this.


Not to mention going on trash the employees after firing them. What a c*****a.

"You guys know that at least 250 of the people terminated were working an average of 2 hours a day while clocking in 8 hours+ a day in the payroll system? They were stealing from you and stealing from our customers who pay the bills that pay our bills. Get educated," Mr Garg wrote under the username “uneducated”.

Mr Garg confirmed to Fortune that he is the person who wrote the post, saying: "I think they could have been phrased differently, but honestly the sentiment is there."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ishal-garg-fires-employees-zoom-b1970926.html

 

[Kaptan]

When these Indian origins raise to the ranks of CEOs, the strawman argument is them being of American nationality and educational & corporate pedigree downplaying their Indian roots.

Now we flip it around and highlight his Indian roots when he does something that has negative perception.

Make up your mind! Acknowledge his Indian roots to ascribe his success if you also want to use the same to malign Indian values and background.

P. S. There is nothing wrong in what he has done regardless of his background. Its just a professional decision.

The CEO is the founder of the company, he was not raised to the "ranks of CEO". The company was founded by him in 2016.

 

[mustang]

Err, welcome to corporate America.



https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59554585

Straightforward business decision but the guy handled it horribly. He should have had a good CEO coach or maybe his board members (usually the investors) could have stepped in to offer him suggestions given the magnitude of this decision and the possible media backlash. Poorly handled all around.

I'm guessing he was the idea visionary as the founder of the company and probably also has good product+market knowledge which is how the investors have retained him as a CEO through multiple rounds of funding. But he does seem to lack empathy (empathetic CEOs usually perform very well) going by prior articles about him. Board members probably know this but the cost of replacing his product+market knowledge with another CEO may have been too high before compared to the cost of possibly replacing him. Depending on how he negotiated investments, he may be holding preferred class of shares along with one or more board voting rights, thus making it more difficult to replace him.

So it may not be a simple scenario of "oooh look Indian CEO = bad" as some posters here seem to be ranting.

 

[Napa]

The CEO is the founder of the company, he was not raised to the "ranks of CEO". The company was founded by him in 2016.

Generally founder/CEOs of successful companies have sharp elbows, for example Zuckerberg. Compared to how Zuckerberg became successful, Garg is probably angelic.

 

[NishanKonar]

This is how startup world operates. You have to be ruthless. Investors don't provide funds for charity

If you ever worked with a VC to raise funds for startup - u will know they are the worst people to ever work with

 

[Technics 1210]

This has more to do with Amreekan pink-slipping culture than an Indian CEO though the CEO clearly lacks empathy. Only in Amreeka is it possible to be mass-culled at a job without notice.

This stunt is simply not possible in the UK, in fact in the UK, one has to be given a consultation notice, and then the process of firing can begin.

 

[Lego20]

Looks like most of you are from Europe/UK. This is a passing event in USA. Nothing abnormal or unusual. Anyone in a job in USA be it Google is prepared for this every single day.

My company (fortune 500) has an office in Switzerland. We are planning to close it for these strict labor laws in Europe. This is just business - if the company cant afford to keep employees, there is no option. You could argue that he saved 9000 jobs by culling the excess of 1000.

 

[Itachi]

I don't understand what he should have had done? Is patting on the back would have made it OK?

Empathy will bring what to the table? Sacking someone, be it rude or soft, ultimately resolute to the same conclusion.

 

[Technics 1210]

I don't understand what he should have had done? Is patting on the back would have made it OK?

Empathy will bring what to the table? Sacking someone, be it rude or soft, ultimately resolute to the same conclusion.

He should’ve shown some empathy the same way Amreekan government granted him a VISA to work in the USA when he fled ‘Incredible’ India.

 

[gani999]

I don't understand what he should have had done? Is patting on the back would have made it OK?

Empathy will bring what to the table? Sacking someone, be it rude or soft, ultimately resolute to the same conclusion.

If the guy had to fire 900 employees in one go, the problem is clearly with his corporate management and not with the employees. A responsibly run company would have never allowed such a situation to come about in the first place.

He seems like an incompetent and arrogant person. I hope his investors pull the plug on his enterprise and kick him out of the board.

 

[Technics 1210]

If the guy had to fire 900 employees in one go, the problem is clearly with his corporate management and not with the employees. A responsibly run company would have never allowed such a situation to come about in the first place.

He seems like an incompetent and arrogant jerk. I hope his investors pull the plug on his crappy little enterprise and kick his *** out of the board.

His investors are Softbank, and yes, the CEO of Softbank is also an Indian who isn’t respected.

The problem is not just Indian superiority mentality, but Amreekan employment law. What he did wasn’t illegal, but immoral and unethical - you’d think this was a moment for Indians to prove they are empathic leaders in the Western world, but the CEO blew it - hence this is news.

 

[Itachi]

I don't believe in empathy in cases like this where the outcome doesn't change regardless of amount of empathy.

If I am sacking you, a soft touch wouldn't change anything in the end. You will still lose the job and you will still find it hard to put foods on the table.

 

[gani999]

His investors are Softbank, and yes, the CEO of Softbank is also an Indian who isn’t respected.

The problem is not just Indian superiority mentality, but Amreekan employment law. What he did wasn’t illegal, but immoral and unethical - you’d think this was a moment for Indians to prove they are empathic leaders in the Western world, but the CEO blew it - hence this is news.

The former Indian CEO of SoftBank got booted out in 2016. The current CEO is Japanese.

And this Vishal Garg guy is clearly incompetent. A company should never have to fire 15% of its staff unless they are heading towards bankruptcy and this company clearly wasn't. It looks more like like a knee jerk reaction on his part to prove to his board that he was taking 'tough measures'. It would have never come to this if he had done his work properly.

 

[NishanKonar]

His investors are Softbank, and yes, the CEO of Softbank is also an Indian who isn’t respected.

The problem is not just Indian superiority mentality, but Amreekan employment law. What he did wasn’t illegal, but immoral and unethical - you’d think this was a moment for Indians to prove they are empathic leaders in the Western world, but the CEO blew it - hence this is news.

Softbank CEO is not Indian. Previous CEO was Indian - Nikesh Arora who is now CEO of Palo Alto Networks

But yeah its bit rich to call Vishal Garg incompetents' when he is worth $ 4 billion and just riased $ 750 million last week. This hire and fire culture is part and parcel of American corporate culture

Startup culture is extremely ruthless. I myself work in one - so I know how it works

 

[gani999]

I don't believe in empathy in cases like this where the outcome doesn't change regardless of amount of empathy.

If I am sacking you, a soft touch wouldn't change anything in the end. You will still lose the job and you will still find it hard to put foods on the table.

Dude, the world is changing.

You cannot be an arrogant person and get away with it. Look at Vishal Garg, as an example. The whole world knows who he is, and for all the wrong reasons. His reputation is in the toilet.

No competent person will ever want to step foot into his company now. He is going to have to rely on low cost imports from India, who will also jump ship at the first opportunity.

The man has screwed up big.

 

[Technics 1210]

Softbank CEO is not Indian. Previous CEO was Indian - Nikesh Arora who is now CEO of Palo Alto Networks

But yeah its bit rich to call Vishal Garg incompetents' when he is worth $ 4 billion and just riased $ 750 million last week. This hire and fire culture is part and parcel of American corporate culture

Startup culture is extremely ruthless. I myself work in one - so I know how it works

CEO of Softbank IA which has invested in Better.com is Rajeev Misra.

Nikesh Arora is now CEO at Palo.

I was working in start-up during the Dot.com era so I know how it works too.

Get your facts straight though.

 

[Technics 1210]

The former Indian CEO of SoftBank got booted out in 2016. The current CEO is Japanese.

And this Vishal Garg guy is clearly incompetent. A company should never have to fire 15% of its staff unless they are heading towards bankruptcy and this company clearly wasn't. It looks more like like a knee jerk reaction on his part to prove to his board that he was taking 'tough measures'. It would have never come to this if he had done his work properly.

Rajeev Misra is the CEO of Softbank IA the company that invested in Better.com

Where do you lot get your facts from?

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh, Nikesh Arora was never CEO at Softbank but COO.

Stop spreading lies.

 

[Kaptan]

The former Indian CEO of SoftBank got booted out in 2016. The current CEO is Japanese.

And this Vishal Garg guy is clearly incompetent. A company should never have to fire 15% of its staff unless they are heading towards bankruptcy and this company clearly wasn't. It looks more like like a knee jerk reaction on his part to prove to his board that he was taking 'tough measures'. It would have never come to this if he had done his work properly.

Not incompetent but heartless. If he is incompetent probably everyone on this forum is blockheaded lol.

 

[Savak]

Laying off/firing someone and being at the receiving end is never easy. I have faced this many times in various manners i.e. being told brutally in the board room, your employment is being terminated effective immediately, she will explain all the details to you, thank you for your service and have also been told in a polite, calm, friendly manner that we are giving you three months notice and after that we are snapping ties. Have also been told by email that you are being laid off and we will send you your belonging via courier.

Welcome to the Corporate practical world.

 

[Napa]

He should’ve shown some empathy the same way Amreekan government granted him a VISA to work in the USA when he fled ‘Incredible’ India.

“Amreekan” government didn’t grant him a visa due to empathy, it was given because it was expected he would create wealth. You are confusing refugees and asylum seekers with wealth creators like Satya Nadella who took Microsoft’s market value from $0.2 trillion to $2 trillion. A strange error for someone who has worked at startups to make.

 

[NishanKonar]

Oh, Nikesh Arora was never CEO at Softbank but COO.

Stop spreading lies.

My bad. Nikesh was President and COO at Softbank

 

[finalfantasy7]

“Amreekan” government didn’t grant him a visa due to empathy, it was given because it was expected he would create wealth. You are confusing refugees and asylum seekers with wealth creators like Satya Nadella who took Microsoft’s market value from $0.2 trillion to $2 trillion. A strange error for someone who has worked at startups to make.

napa, c'mon, were all 900 employees deemed as sackable - no, sack the people who need to be

 

[Napa]

napa, c'mon, were all 900 employees deemed as sackable - no, sack the people who need to be

I totally think his behavior is condemnable. If you look at his history, there is more unpleasant and possibly unethical behavior but it is not uncommon for a founder of a successful startup to behave that way.

I was commenting on whether the US government let him into the US as an act of empathy, or for the possible contribution to the economy. I believe that the US government knows very well that visas given to engineering students and professionals benefits the US economy massively.

 

[ElRaja]

the cash infusion was probably pre requisite on trimming the work force, no boss sacks work force if doesn't make business sense. most likely he over expanded which required external investment.

no way to lead a company though, the rest of his workforce are unlikely to be motivated in this event. most likely one of those managers who are good at business strategies but bad at people management. should delegate staffing to another director.

overall its a pretty crap thing to do, but theres nothing illegal in it given its in america. employment rights are weak, but no country can compete with their businesses so they must be doing something right.

 

[gazza619]

Credit to the boss for taking out the time to speak to the staff who are getting paid 3 month wage for free!!!

Some people can be so thankless.

 

[cric_man]

Generally founder/CEOs of successful companies have sharp elbows, for example Zuckerberg. Compared to how Zuckerberg became successful, Garg is probably angelic.

I don't know about him being angelic. Guess it is all relative.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidj...ts-bettercom-ceo-vishal-garg/?sh=657c47f710f4

 

[James]

This seems very alien to someone like me who works for a UK-based corporation, one which rigidly observes the employment laws & ACAS guidelines & arguably goes further on top of that. All makes it quite challenging for managers to terminate contracts to be honest.

Unless through redundancy/early retirement for health reasons, then the dismissal process for an employee in the UK can take a very long time based on absence / performance / conduct etc (unless they are a complete and utter train wreck, or in a probationary period, in which case it can be fast tracked…)

 

[Robert]

Terrible behaviour, would be illegal in Europe. No wonder so many Yanks get so paranoid.

 

[Technics 1210]

Terrible behaviour, would be illegal in Europe. No wonder so many Yanks get so paranoid.

My fam would visit the UK from Amreeka on holidays but would all have their work laptop with them. It was more of a working holiday. When asked why, they simply said they could be fired (pink-slipped) while on holiday. That’s the law of the land and the free. So the paranoia is real.

 

[Technics 1210]

This seems very alien to someone like me who works for a UK-based corporation, one which rigidly observes the employment laws & ACAS guidelines & arguably goes further on top of that. All makes it quite challenging for managers to terminate contracts to be honest.

Unless through redundancy/early retirement for health reasons, then the dismissal process for an employee in the UK can take a very long time based on absence / performance / conduct etc (unless they are a complete and utter train wreck, or in a probationary period, in which case it can be fast tracked…)

The reality is that is that Amreekan employment law works on fear, but in this case it’s the method, mass-cull via video conference. The truth is, in a post Covid 19 world, video conferencing is an efficient method.

The CEO is getting gunned for showing lack of empathy and professionalism rather than using Zoom.

 

[Savak]

North America is a very ruthless place. No guarantee of permanent employment, its all about the bottom line, performance, productivity, likes and dislikes e.t.c.

 

[Kroll]

Boss says sorry for 'blundered' Zoom firing of 900 staff

The boss of a US mortgage company, who fired hundreds of his staff in a Zoom meeting has said he is "deeply sorry" for the way the lay-offs were handled.

The sackings were necessary said Vishal Garg, but he accepted he had "blundered the execution" and "embarrassed" them.

"I failed to show the appropriate amount of respect and appreciation for the individuals who were affected," he said in a letter on the firm's website.

Mr Garg was heavily criticised after he sacked 900 staff in an online meeting.

"I am deeply sorry and am committed to learning from this situation and doing more to be the leader that you expect me to be," he said.

Mr Garg said he had realised "the way I communicated this news made a difficult situation worse".

The firm, Better.com, a start-up offering mortgages, is based in New York.

"If you're on this call you're part of the unlucky group being laid off," Mr Garg told staff in the call last week. "Your employment here is terminated. Effective immediately."

A recording of the call was shared on social media, prompting comments that sacking people this way was "cold", "harsh" and "a horrible move", especially in the run up to Christmas.

Better.com, which aims to use technology to make the housebuying process "faster and more efficient", confirmed earlier this year that it plans to float the company on the stock market. A deal is likely to value the business - which Mr Garg founded in 2015 - at between $6.9bn (£5.2bn) and $7.7bn.

How Vishal Garg told people they were fired

"Hi everyone, thank you for joining. I come to you with not great news. The market has changed, as you know, and we have to move with it in order to survive so that hopefully we can continue to thrive and deliver on our mission.

"This isn't news that you're going to want to hear but ultimately it was my decision and I wanted you to hear it from me. It's been a really, really challenging decision to make. This is the second time in my career that I'm doing this and I do not want to do this. The last time I did it I cried. This time I hope to be stronger. But we are laying off about 15% of the company for [a number of] reasons: the market, efficiency and performances and productivity.

"If you're on this call you are part of the unlucky group that is being laid off. Your employment here is terminated. Effective immediately."

Mr Garg told staff he was grateful for their contribution.

"I believe in you, I believe in Better, and I believe that working together we can make homeownership better together," he wrote.

A right way to fire staff?

"Organisations do have to make job cuts sometimes, it is a hard reality," says Rachel Suff, senior policy adviser on employee relations at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development.

"But how they go about it and the humanity they approach it with can have a fundamental impact on how people deal with that shocking news."

Ms Suff points out that the situation facing Better.com's staff in the US would not happen in the UK. Legally, UK employers have to enter a consultation period with workers of at least 30 days, or 45 days if more than 100 people are being made redundant.

During that period "people should be given the right phrasing, eased into it, given warning, prepared for the news and explained the reasons why", she says.

UK employers also have to look for alternative roles for workers. "An employer really needs to tell people that they've exhausted every possible alternative, it is the last thing they wanted to do - it is about being able to leave with your dignity and respect intact."

Ms Suff adds that while a lot of focus regarding Better.com has been about Mr Garg using Zoom to fire staff, the approach is incredibly important.

"If you notice as well [Mr Garg] talks about the impact on himself. He says: 'I cried the last time'. But who's losing their job here? It was very rich, talking about the impact on himself - what about them?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59573146

 

[finalfantasy7]

I totally think his behavior is condemnable. If you look at his history, there is more unpleasant and possibly unethical behavior but it is not uncommon for a founder of a successful startup to behave that way.

I was commenting on whether the US government let him into the US as an act of empathy, or for the possible contribution to the economy. I believe that the US government knows very well that visas given to engineering students and professionals benefits the US economy massively.

gob smacked on how you believe all 900 employees were deemed as sackable

 

[Napa]

gob smacked on how you believe all 900 employees were deemed as sackable

It depends upon the total headcount of the firm. Many firms fire 20%+ of their employees when they want to cut costs. Of course they are much better at managing the PR of the firings compared to Garg.

Jan 28, 2015
Last Thursday, a technology blogger for Forbes magazine reported that IBM was planning to cut 26 percent of its total workforce — or some 112,000 jobs — in a "bloodbath" of layoffs that would begin this week. Headlines buzzed that this would amount to the biggest corporate layoff in history, and the stock appeared to rise on the news.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...biggest-mass-layoffs-of-the-past-two-decades/

 

[Lego20]

People are turning very soft these days. Have survived several layoffs in last 19 years. This is just part of the game.

New thing I have heard is lower math standards so that its equitable - what we are doing is condoning and fostering mediocrity in the name of equity and fixing discrimination:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Q: Is Math Racist? Why do “students of color struggle with the subject”?<br><br>A: Congratulations to our first place US Math Olympiad team members Vincent Huang, Colin Tang, Edward Wan, Brandon Wang, Luke Robitaille, and Daniel Zhu. Pictured. <a href="https://t.co/Y5UwABU0Xu">pic.twitter.com/Y5UwABU0Xu</a></p>— Eric Weinstein (@EricRWeinstein) <a href="https://twitter.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1468507164608135168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Savak]

Being laid off, fired, culled is a reality. It's not easy to handle and it's okay to feel sorry for yourself, confused, shocked for a few days but then move on and think positively

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

napa, c'mon, were all 900 employees deemed as sackable - no, sack the people who need to be

This sacking is not due to peoples performance, it is due to the companies bottom line not able to sustain the cost of their salaries.
Welcome to Capitalism my friend. It is pretty common for companies to sack 20-30% of their workforce when situation is dire. They are getting severance packages, but such if life in private sector.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

For all who may not know, in USA the notice period is only 15 days. So they can just sack you one day and the labor laws are massively in favor of corporations. This is pretty much same in Australia as well.
Not sure about NZ/Canada.
Europe is very regulated and if the CEO pulls up any stuff like this, the company is in for a massive fine.

The Yanks consider it a Freedom of Choice, and if you try to explain them about better labor laws in UK/Europe they label you commies.

But, come to think of it, this is what allows the Companies in USA to Scale/Shrink much faster and grow to generate revenues and become successful. Very less regulation.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

'Blundered the execution': Better.com CEO's apology for firing 900 staffers over Zoom call

Vishal Garg, the CEO of online mortgage company Better.com, has tendered an apology after he was criticised for firing 900 employees over a Zoom call

he handled the recent mass layoff at the US-based online mortgage firm. Garg had received severe flak after a video of him firing 900 people via a Zoom call went viral on social media last week.

Garg was severely criticised after the SoftBank-backed company fired the 900 employees, which comprised nearly 9% of its workforce through the video call. He said he had "blundered the execution" of communicating the layoffs.

"I realize that the way I communicated this news made a difficult situation worse," Garg said in a letter dated December 7. While firing the employees, Garg had cited the market, staff performance and productivity as reasons behind the decision. The laid off employees were from the United States and India.

Better.com had said in May that it would go public through a merger with blank-check firm Aurora Acquisition Corp (AURC.O), in a deal that valued it at $7.7 billion.

The terms of the deal were amended earlier this month to provide Better.com with half of the $1.5 billion committed by SoftBank immediately, instead of waiting till the deal's closure.

Better.com, which was founded in 2016 and is headquartered in New York, offers mortgage and insurance products to homeowners through its online platform.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...oyees-fired-over-zoom-call-1885754-2021-12-09

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pretty sure Mr. Garg is a fan of dramatic Indian reality shows. Now he is apologising for how he executed this firing process. Total blunder.

 

[Mamoon]

It is cruel but it is normal business for American companies. In fact, it happens in American companies that have outsourced jobs in Pakistan.

I am not well-versed in Pakistani employee laws but it appears that they don’t apply to American companies that have outsourced jobs in Pakistan.

A neighbor of mine worked for an an American call centre based in Pakistan. He was fired without prior notice during the first wave of the pandemic.

He finished work on Friday and everything was normal, routine. When he tried to log into the system on Monday, he was locked out and he was emailed the termination letter and was asked to return his laptop and other equipment in X number of days.

It was heartbreaking to see the psychological damage it caused. It took him months before he could pick himself up and apply for other jobs.

It is a seriously cutthroat environment and it stems from the belief that anyone is replaceable and there will always be enough people who would be willing to work for your company.

These practices can only be inhibited if there are mass protests by the employees and everyone refusing to work and standing for others, but at the end of the day, it is easier said than done because we are all selfish and have to worry about our own jobs. No one can stand for others in times like these. It is not worth it in the long run.

 

[finalfantasy7]

This sacking is not due to peoples performance, it is due to the companies bottom line not able to sustain the cost of their salaries.
Welcome to Capitalism my friend. It is pretty common for companies to sack 20-30% of their workforce when situation is dire. They are getting severance packages, but such if life in private sector.

i live in a capitalistic country = UK, this never occurs here, as we have better laws

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

i live in a capitalistic country = UK, this never occurs here, as we have better laws

Please read my post above about weak labor laws in Amreeka.
And no UK still has some socialist labor laws, which majority of Americans completely abhor.
I am not justifying the manner in which it was done, but it’s pretty common,
But even in America you have to pay for leaves and severance by law.

 

[Savak]

It is cruel but it is normal business for American companies. In fact, it happens in American companies that have outsourced jobs in Pakistan.

I am not well-versed in Pakistani employee laws but it appears that they don’t apply to American companies that have outsourced jobs in Pakistan.

A neighbor of mine worked for an an American call centre based in Pakistan. He was fired without prior notice during the first wave of the pandemic.

He finished work on Friday and everything was normal, routine. When he tried to log into the system on Monday, he was locked out and he was emailed the termination letter and was asked to return his laptop and other equipment in X number of days.

It was heartbreaking to see the psychological damage it caused. It took him months before he could pick himself up and apply for other jobs.

It is a seriously cutthroat environment and it stems from the belief that anyone is replaceable and there will always be enough people who would be willing to work for your company.

These practices can only be inhibited if there are mass protests by the employees and everyone refusing to work and standing for others, but at the end of the day, it is easier said than done because we are all selfish and have to worry about our own jobs. No one can stand for others in times like these. It is not worth it in the long run.

Good Professional companies even if they let go off an employee, they try to sugar coat it or do it in the nicest way possible. When i was let go in my last firm, they gave me 3 months notice and politely explained why they had to make this business decision and told me not to consider it a permanent thing and that if i ever wanted to apply again 5-10 years down the line the doors of the firm would be open for me.

Contrast this with being terminated in this manner, i.e. turning up to work, being ordered to stop right where i am by the receptionist, she tells me to wait where i am and that my boss wanted to speak to me before i could enter the premises, she goes to collect him, he comes out of his room, i say hi, he doesn't even respond or acknowledge me, he just orders me to follow him to a boardroom, i see a lady in the boardroom, i was under the impression perhaps she is a new client of the firm and he wants to introduce me to her, i enter the boardroom and he politely tells me to have a seat with her across the table and him in the middle, after i sit down, he then utters in the most hateful tone "Your employment is now being terminated effective immediately, She is going to explain all the details to you, Thank you for your service". He then gets up, storms off pushing the door hard and then slams his office door shut very loudly. I was stunned for a good 1-2 minutes and even the lady sympathized with me and was like "OMG, you really look shocked". It took me a good 5 minutes to gather myself and begin talking calmly to her and then i realized she was his lawyer and she presented me with his termination letter, an offer for severance pay for one months salary, in exchange for not contesting the dismissal and i had one week to accept his offer.

There was nothing wrong with my skills or abilities but the manner in which this was done shattered me psychologically, i lost all interest in applying to another accounting firm again and was living a very aimless life for the next 7-8 months before i could develop the confidence to start applying to other firms again.

My experience with the other firms since then has been thoroughly professional, pleasant and my message to people in all urnestness is never to let a very bad experience with an employer hold you down, not all employers, people and companies are the same and to develop the strength to pick yourself up quickly from these set backs.

I went for Hajj during that break which is an opportunity no one gets easily and was able to spend quality time in Pakistan at home with family, friends after being away for 5 years but i wasted 5 months unnecessarily which i will never get back.

 

[James]

i live in a capitalistic country = UK, this never occurs here, as we have better laws

Agreed, the employment legislation overall is better in the UK than in most other countries.

Some would argue it is a little bit too much in the favour of the worker though, if that’s possible. As I posted above, it is extremely difficult to terminate, even with pretty rubbish employees.

 

[finalfantasy7]

Agreed, the employment legislation overall is better in the UK than in most other countries.

Some would argue it is a little bit too much in the favour of the worker though, if that’s possible. As I posted above, it is extremely difficult to terminate, even with pretty rubbish employees.

i disagree, had a fellow colleague who got sacked yesterday due to he raised not shouted but raised his voice at a team leader- they tried to put him into a meeting - while he asked he should have been given notice for this meeting - TL said no - he asked for a fellow colleague to sit into the meeting - they declined, he just raised his voice and asked why are you declining my request whilst the TL ran to her seat - within 1 hr he was served a suspension letter by the TL who contacted the admin team, they summoned him into a meeting yesterday - and the contact centre manager who wasnt in the day occurred - sacked his for being aggressive - against company rules.

I was present in the room when it occurred and the meeting and i was shocking to see him sacked for the above reason + declining to listen to the TL

 

[finalfantasy7]

Please read my post above about weak labor laws in Amreeka.
And no UK still has some socialist labor laws, which majority of Americans completely abhor.
I am not justifying the manner in which it was done, but it’s pretty common,
But even in America you have to pay for leaves and severance by law.

i did read ur post, just dont agree with you

thought by now America would have introduced better labour laws than currently

just thinking how this company will survive - as hes sacked 900 people in one go ? how how that will massively affect his current position - i.e his current projects contracts will take a big step back = this meaning making a lesser profit = yet he was only thinking about 1 thing-profit

 

[Technics 1210]

The CEO of digital mortgage firm Better.com, who gained sudden notoriety for group-firing 900 employees weeks before the holidays, is “taking time off effective immediately” while the company rethinks its leadership and culture.

Vishal Garg attained nationwide infamy for firing the employees over Zoom, accusing them of “stealing from the company” by not working hard enough.

A letter sent to employees from the company’s board of directors on Friday promised that Better.com would be bringing in an outside firm to “do a leadership and cultural assessment.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/542929-better-ceo-leaves-mass-firing/

Looks like the CEO will be heading back to 'incredible' India!

 

[Napa]

“Amreekan” government didn’t grant him a visa due to empathy, it was given because it was expected he would create wealth. You are confusing refugees and asylum seekers with wealth creators like Satya Nadella who took Microsoft’s market value from $0.2 trillion to $2 trillion. A strange error for someone who has worked at startups to make.

Looks like the CEO will be heading back to 'incredible' India!

He went to Stuyvesant for high school. Probably a second generation Indian American.

 

[Itachi]

The CEO of digital mortgage firm Better.com, who gained sudden notoriety for group-firing 900 employees weeks before the holidays, is “taking time off effective immediately” while the company rethinks its leadership and culture.

Vishal Garg attained nationwide infamy for firing the employees over Zoom, accusing them of “stealing from the company” by not working hard enough.

A letter sent to employees from the company’s board of directors on Friday promised that Better.com would be bringing in an outside firm to “do a leadership and cultural assessment.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/542929-better-ceo-leaves-mass-firing/

Looks like the CEO will be heading back to 'incredible' India!

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Good Professional companies even if they let go off an employee, they try to sugar coat it or do it in the nicest way possible. When i was let go in my last firm, they gave me 3 months notice and politely explained why they had to make this business decision and told me not to consider it a permanent thing and that if i ever wanted to apply again 5-10 years down the line the doors of the firm would be open for me.

Contrast this with being terminated in this manner, i.e. turning up to work, being ordered to stop right where i am by the receptionist, she tells me to wait where i am and that my boss wanted to speak to me before i could enter the premises, she goes to collect him, he comes out of his room, i say hi, he doesn't even respond or acknowledge me, he just orders me to follow him to a boardroom, i see a lady in the boardroom, i was under the impression perhaps she is a new client of the firm and he wants to introduce me to her, i enter the boardroom and he politely tells me to have a seat with her across the table and him in the middle, after i sit down, he then utters in the most hateful tone "Your employment is now being terminated effective immediately, She is going to explain all the details to you, Thank you for your service". He then gets up, storms off pushing the door hard and then slams his office door shut very loudly. I was stunned for a good 1-2 minutes and even the lady sympathized with me and was like "OMG, you really look shocked". It took me a good 5 minutes to gather myself and begin talking calmly to her and then i realized she was his lawyer and she presented me with his termination letter, an offer for severance pay for one months salary, in exchange for not contesting the dismissal and i had one week to accept his offer.

There was nothing wrong with my skills or abilities but the manner in which this was done shattered me psychologically, i lost all interest in applying to another accounting firm again and was living a very aimless life for the next 7-8 months before i could develop the confidence to start applying to other firms again.

My experience with the other firms since then has been thoroughly professional, pleasant and my message to people in all urnestness is never to let a very bad experience with an employer hold you down, not all employers, people and companies are the same and to develop the strength to pick yourself up quickly from these set backs.

I went for Hajj during that break which is an opportunity no one gets easily and was able to spend quality time in Pakistan at home with family, friends after being away for 5 years but i wasted 5 months unnecessarily which i will never get back.

That sounds terrible. Good to know you’re in a better spot now.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He went to Stuyvesant for high school. Probably a second generation Indian American.

Why even use the term second generation? Is he American or not?

 

[James]

i disagree, had a fellow colleague who got sacked yesterday due to he raised not shouted but raised his voice at a team leader- they tried to put him into a meeting - while he asked he should have been given notice for this meeting - TL said no - he asked for a fellow colleague to sit into the meeting - they declined, he just raised his voice and asked why are you declining my request whilst the TL ran to her seat - within 1 hr he was served a suspension letter by the TL who contacted the admin team, they summoned him into a meeting yesterday - and the contact centre manager who wasnt in the day occurred - sacked his for being aggressive - against company rules.

I was present in the room when it occurred and the meeting and i was shocking to see him sacked for the above reason + declining to listen to the TL

That does sound very bad and harsh, I do think it would be rare/exceptional though.

 

[Napa]

Why even use the term second generation? Is he American or not?

You can read the following article for the meaning of the phrase "second generation American".

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Good Professional companies even if they let go off an employee, they try to sugar coat it or do it in the nicest way possible. When i was let go in my last firm, they gave me 3 months notice and politely explained why they had to make this business decision and told me not to consider it a permanent thing and that if i ever wanted to apply again 5-10 years down the line the doors of the firm would be open for me.

Exactly. Their is a proper, "politically correct", way to do this.

You need to pretend to at least feel sorry for the employees and not go on to trash them to the remaining employees who were not fired.

 

[Kroll]

i disagree, had a fellow colleague who got sacked yesterday due to he raised not shouted but raised his voice at a team leader- they tried to put him into a meeting - while he asked he should have been given notice for this meeting - TL said no - he asked for a fellow colleague to sit into the meeting - they declined, he just raised his voice and asked why are you declining my request whilst the TL ran to her seat - within 1 hr he was served a suspension letter by the TL who contacted the admin team, they summoned him into a meeting yesterday - and the contact centre manager who wasnt in the day occurred - sacked his for being aggressive - against company rules.

I was present in the room when it occurred and the meeting and i was shocking to see him sacked for the above reason + declining to listen to the TL

What [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] is alluding to is that outwith the probationary period, the company would need to consider very carefully whether to fire an employee.

From your anecdote, this particular employee seems to have strong case of unfair dismissal as it doesn't seem like a gross misconduct allegation which can lead to an immediate termination of contract.

Companies do not wish to get mired into company vs employee court cases, amongst other things, it can harm their reputation as a trustworthy and ethical employer.

 

[James]

What [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] is alluding to is that outwith the probationary period, the company would need to consider very carefully whether to fire an employee.

From your anecdote, this particular employee seems to have strong case of unfair dismissal as it doesn't seem like a gross misconduct allegation which can lead to an immediate termination of contract.

Companies do not wish to get mired into company vs employee court cases, amongst other things, it can harm their reputation as a trustworthy and ethical employer.

Agreed, if this one goes to an Employment Tribunal then the employee would have a strong case.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

i did read ur post, just dont agree with you

thought by now America would have introduced better labour laws than currently



just thinking how this company will survive - as hes sacked 900 people in one go ? how how that will massively affect his current position - i.e his current projects contracts will take a big step back = this meaning making a lesser profit = yet he was only thinking about 1 thing-profit

a)Well clearly they would not. USA is country ran by corporations. Its not new.
b)from what i read is that 900 was 15-20% of his headcount. Companies do that all the time throughout history everywhere. Sometimes whole divisions of 10,000 - 25,000 have been fired, even in Microsoft due to strategic alignments and change of prioties.
All I am saying, it is pretty common. And he did not break any law. The employees will get severance pay as per US labor laws.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Agreed, if this one goes to an Employment Tribunal then the employee would have a strong case.

What would happen in UK if the company/division has reported massive losses and they have to reduce staff? What does UK Labor law says about that? Just want to understand how it would be different from this specific case.

 

[James]

What would happen in UK if the company/division has reported massive losses and they have to reduce staff? What does UK Labor law says about that? Just want to understand how it would be different from this specific case.

<b>https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights</b>

As long as the employee is on a formal contract and not casual/probationary, in this case through the redundancy legislation the UK employee is legally entitled to a minimum of a 1 weeks’ notice period for a new starter and up to 12 weeks’ notice if they are a long serving employee, and the employer is also statutorily required to give a fair and proportionate severance payment to the employee.

The above is the bare minimum required by law. Many UK employers have their own policies on redundancy/lay off which are far more generous.

If my own job was ever culled, I would get 6 months’ notice to find another job and also a massive payout approaching six figures.

<u>A couple more:</u>
The first £30k of any severance payment is delivered tax-free.
The layoff decision is open to appeal internally first, and it can then be externally appealed again through an no-fee Employment Tribunal (in certain cases).

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

<b>https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights</b>

As long as the employee is on a formal contract and not casual/probationary, in this case through the redundancy legislation the UK employee is legally entitled to a minimum of a 1 weeks’ notice period for a new starter and up to 12 weeks’ notice if they are a long serving employee, and the employer is also statutorily required to give a fair and proportionate severance payment to the employee.

The above is the bare minimum required by law. Many UK employers have their own policies on redundancy/lay off which are far more generous.

If my own job was ever culled, I would get 6 months’ notice to find another job and also a massive payout approaching six figures.

<u>A couple more:</u>
The first £30k of any severance payment is delivered tax-free.
The layoff decision is open to appeal internally first, and it can then be externally appealed again through an no-fee Employment Tribunal (in certain cases).

Okay. Something similar in Australia also and most of the European countries. I believe not the case in USA and Canada. I mean the length of notice period is very small, just 15 days in many organisations.
So, legally nothing wrong was done in this specific case.
Americans wanted freedom and zero regulation, well this is a price for them to pay.

 

[James]

Okay. Something similar in Australia also and most of the European countries. I believe not the case in USA and Canada. I mean the length of notice period is very small, just 15 days in many organisations.
So, legally nothing wrong was done in this specific case.
Americans wanted freedom and zero regulation, well this is a price for them to pay.

Yes. Everything has its price.

Equally, dismissal is far more difficult to achieve cleanly in the UK than the US — this is a good thing for each individual employee, because we have a lot of legal armour; but then many of these same employees have line management responsibility and will find it extremely challenging to box off the dismissing of rubbish workers in their own roles.

One could also argue from a holistic point of view that a set of more ruthless and limited labour laws will force employees to work harder, whereas relaxed labour laws lead to more slacking, higher absenteeism and lower productivity.

 

[finalfantasy7]

What [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] is alluding to is that outwith the probationary period, the company would need to consider very carefully whether to fire an employee.

From your anecdote, this particular employee seems to have strong case of unfair dismissal as it doesn't seem like a gross misconduct allegation which can lead to an immediate termination of contract.

Companies do not wish to get mired into company vs employee court cases, amongst other things, it can harm their reputation as a trustworthy and ethical employer.

guy who got sacked wasnt bothered, he's happy with the outcome, he has a few interviews already

 

[Kroll]

guy who got sacked wasnt bothered, he's happy with the outcome, he has a few interviews already

Good to hear, it's a buyers market in UK right now.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You can read the following article for the meaning of the phrase "second generation American".

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/

I was asking for your opinion, not a link to some article. This is a discussion forum, do you have an opinion or not?

 

[Napa]

I was asking for your opinion, not a link to some article. This is a discussion forum, do you have an opinion or not?

My opinion is that he is probably a 2nd generation Indian-American and therefore there is no question of him heading back to India as [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION] keeps suggesting he will/should.

 

[MenInG]

When Better.com Chief Executive Officer Vishal Garg fired 900 staffers on Zoom late last year, the cuts essentially moved a larger portion of its workforce offshore.

The online mortgage lender had been aggressively hiring in both India and the U.S. for most of 2021 to try and keep pace with a wave of refinancing. But a recent regulatory filing shows that Garg's infamous Zoom cuts -- which followed the U.S. Federal Reserve's sudden switch on interest rates -- fell much harder stateside than in lower-wage India.

The geographic shift, which effectively added 1,000 employees in India, could help Better.com stave off a downturn that's left the company with declining revenue and higher expenses as it prepares to go public. Better.com, in the same U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing, disclosed that its fourth-quarter net loss may reach $182 million and that revenue fell as much as 22% from the previous quarter.

Factors including the workforce reduction and negative media coverage "detrimentally affected Better's productivity and financial results," the company said, as did rising interest rates and increased competition among lenders.

Garg has apologized for how the firings were handled and took a short hiatus from the company.

Garg didn't immediately respond to a request for comment left on his cellphone and at his office. A spokeswoman for the New York-based firm didn't immediately return a telephone call and email seeking comment.

Before the job cuts, Better.com was on a hiring spree as it sought to capitalize on a wave of home mortgage refinancings driven by record-low interest rates. Its workforce roughly doubled during the year to more than 10,000 by November, according to the filing.

By year-end, after Garg's staff reduction, the company said it had 9,300 staffers. While that was lower than in November, it was still higher than the 8,100 workers it employed as of June 30, SEC documents show.

What mainly changed was the geographic mix. As of June 30, the company had 5,000 employees in the U.S. and 3,100 in India. At year-end, it had about 5,200 in the U.S. and about 4,100 in India, according to the filing. The proportion working in India had increased to 44% at Dec. 31 from 38% at June 30.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bet...s-in-india-2769014#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

 

[MenInG]

A former Better.com employee is suing the company and its chief executive, Vishal Garg, alleging they provided misleading statements to investors about the digital mortgage firm's financial prospects and performance.

Sarah Pierce, a former executive vice-president for sales and operations at the SoftBank-backed company, claimed in her lawsuit that Mr Garg misrepresented Better.com's statements to ensure investors go through with a SPAC merger instead of withdrawing due to its financial condition.

A Better.com lawyer said the claims were "without merit".

SoftBank did not immediately reply to a Reuters request for comment.

Better.com's plan to go public through a merger with a special-purpose acquisition company (SPAC) Aurora Acquisition Corp, in a deal that valued it at $7.7 billion, was agreed to last year and has yet to close.

SPAC deals were among the hottest investment trends during the pandemic as early-stage companies looked to go public.

Pierce said in the lawsuit - filed on Tuesday in a US district court, southern district of New York - that she was pushed out of her role in February in retaliation for raising concerns about the deal. She is seeking financial compensation.

"We have reviewed the claims in the complaint and strongly believe them to be without merit," a lawyer for Better.com said in an emailed statement to Reuters. "The company is confident in our financial and accounting practices, and we will vigorously defend this lawsuit," the lawyer added.

Founded in 2016 and headquartered in New York, Better.com offers mortgage and insurance products to homeowners through its online platform.

Last year, Mr Garg had to apologize for his manner of handling layoffs after a video of him firing 900 employees over a Zoom call went viral on social media.

NDTV