US elevates India’s trade status to NATO-level ally

[TheLastGreatMan]

We have granted to India Strategic Trade Authorization status STA-1 that’s (a) very important status under our export control regime and acknowledges US-India security and economic relationship,” said US secretary of commerce Wilbur Ross at the Indo-Pacific Business Forum.

The move, which will reduce the number of licences needed for US exports to India, means India can get easy access to the latest defence technologies.

It could also mean a leg-up for the foundational COMCASA agreement which the US is keen to get India to sign, analysts say.

The Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement is one of the three agreements that the US has with its closest military allies, and will allow the installation of high-security US communication equipment on defence equipment being sold to India, thereby , the US argument goes, facilitating interoperability. India has concerns on giving the US access to sensitive military communication if it signs the agreement.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...efence-tech/story-0gv9Uu6hYe8gE4ASzImm4M.html

 

[Varun]

A major non-NATO ally huh?

Have a look at how that has worked out for Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

A major non-NATO ally huh?

Have a look at how that has worked out for Pakistan.

Exactly lol, no one wants to be a USA base, luckily we have somewhat socialist opposition so it should be ok.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Long for the era when india was aligned with Russia and was anti USA.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Long for the era when india was aligned with Russia and was anti USA.

Russia is not same,they have gone down economically in last decade,except for few their weapons/aircraft are not that good.

 

[Yossarian]

..... and will allow the installation of high-security US communication equipment on defence equipment being sold to India,.....

In other words, the US controls what, where, when, how and whom it's used against, but with the purchaser paying for the purchase, maintenance, storage and running costs!

 

[cricketjoshila]

In other words, the US controls what, where, when, how and whom it's used against, but with the purchaser paying for the purchase, maintenance, storage and running costs!

It could also mean a leg-up for the foundational COMCASA agreement which the US is keen to get India to sign,

US is keen to sign we are not. Thats why we havent signed the COMCASA or BECA.

 

[Yossarian]

US is keen to sign we are not. Thats why we havent signed the COMCASA or BECA.

To be fair, it's likely 99.9% certain that the US already builds in backdoors to any fighter jets, missiles, and other sophisticated military hardware that the US sells to other countries. The backdoors which the US is then able to use to monitor and control the hardware to stop it from being used against the USA or any of it's allies it wishes to protect.

For example, if any of the fighter jets that the US sells to the Gulf States tried to fire upon, say, a U.S. jet or warship, the pilot will probably will find the jet having a 'malfunction' of some sort.

 

[InziRules]

To be fair, it's likely 99.9% certain that the US already builds in backdoors to any fighter jets, missiles, and other sophisticated military hardware that the US sells to other countries. The backdoors which the US is then able to use to monitor and control the hardware to stop it from being used against the USA or any of it's allies it wishes to protect.

For example, if any of the fighter jets that the US sells to the Gulf States tried to fire upon, say, a U.S. jet or warship, the pilot will probably will find the jet having a 'malfunction' of some sort.

Lol, and how would that work? If AI was that advanced, drones wouldn't need a human operator overseeing it.

 

[BlackShadow]

Lol, and how would that work? If AI was that advanced, drones wouldn't need a human operator overseeing it.

Things like self driving cars or drones is harder to achieve. What he suggests is perfectly possible and would it need AI?

 

[InziRules]

Things like self driving cars or drones is harder to achieve. What he suggests is perfectly possible and would it need AI?

No, it's not. How will the system know what you've aimed at? How exactly does the US ensure that no country that buys it ever finds out that something like that is here?

More importantly, it's not the US government that makes these things, it's US companies chasing cash. The idea that they're patriotic enough to do this is a bit baffling.

 

[BlackShadow]

No, it's not. How will the system know what you've aimed at? How exactly does the US ensure that no country that buys it ever finds out that something like that is here?

More importantly, it's not the US government that makes these things, it's US companies chasing cash. The idea that they're patriotic enough to do this is a bit baffling.

The planes have American radars, information relayed by radars is used to lock and track the target, and that step relies on software that can easily be rigged and be told to abort given certain parameters. I am just saying that all this seems doable to me, whether they do it or not is a different matter.

 

[TM Riddle]

I miss having Russians as Bros.
Can't trust the Amriki heretics after the treatment they meted out to our peaceful neighbors.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

I miss having Russians as Bros.
Can't trust the Amriki heretics after the treatment they meted out to our peaceful neighbors.

Those days are long gone.Putin is not sentimental type neiether are we.Now it’s purely transactional.

 

[Yossarian]

The planes have American radars, information relayed by radars is used to lock and track the target, and that step relies on software that can easily be rigged and be told to abort given certain parameters. I am just saying that all this seems doable to me, whether they do it or not is a different matter.

No, it's not. How will the system know what you've aimed at? How exactly does the US ensure that no country that buys it ever finds out that something like that is here?

More importantly, it's not the US government that makes these things, it's US companies chasing cash. The idea that they're patriotic enough to do this is a bit baffling.

Advanced jet fighters already have "friend or foe" recognition hardware/software built into them. E.g. To ensure that, say, a U.S. jet fighter doesn't deliberately or accidentally fire upon another U.S. jet fighter.

Furthermore, any fighters sold by the U.S. to foreign forces will need to communicate with their own ground control. It doesn't require much thinking to realise how easily the U.S. could build in backdoors so that it can also monitor this communication if it so wished.

As for your

More importantly, it's not the US government that makes these things, it's US companies chasing cash. The idea that they're patriotic enough to do this is a bit baffling.

, You do realise that anything and everything sold to foreign governments by these companies producing military hardware has to be approved by the U.S. authorities?

 

[InziRules]

Advanced jet fighters already have "friend or foe" recognition hardware/software built into them. E.g. To ensure that, say, a U.S. jet fighter doesn't deliberately or accidentally fire upon another U.S. jet fighter.

Furthermore, any fighters sold by the U.S. to foreign forces will need to communicate with their own ground control. It doesn't require much thinking to realise how easily the U.S. could build in backdoors so that it can also monitor this communication if it so wished.

As for your , You do realise that anything and everything sold to foreign governments by these companies producing military hardware has to be approved by the U.S. authorities?

Anything sold by anyone to a foreign country is approved by U.S Authorities.

As for the rest, it can recognise friends, but it can not positively recognise hostiles, thus even the system has a override. Meaning, the sort of system he's implying, where it malfunctions on seeing a US jet is not likely.

 

[Yossarian]

Anything sold by anyone to a foreign country is approved by U.S Authorities.

As for the rest, it can recognise friends, but it can not positively recognise hostiles, thus even the system has a override. Meaning, the sort of system he's implying, where it malfunctions on seeing a US jet is not likely.

Look at it from a political point of view. What would be the political repercussions if a (modern) U.S. made jet, that had been sold to a foreign country which was now in conflict with the USA, fired upon a U.S. jet or U.S. warship and caused American casualties? Especially if the U.S. manufacturer of the jet had the ability to build-in hardware/software safeguards to prevent the jet from being used against U.S. forces.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Look at it from a political point of view. What would be the political repercussions if a (modern) U.S. made jet, that had been sold to a foreign country which was now in conflict with the USA, fired upon a U.S. jet or U.S. warship and caused American casualties? Especially if the U.S. manufacturer of the jet had the ability to build-in hardware/software safeguards to prevent the jet from being used against U.S. forces.

Can you tell me how will this safeguard work? How will US take control of the software or hardware that is not within their physical reach or connected to their network?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Friends today... Foe tomorrow!!

The US has gone a bit schizophrenic in dealing with the challenge from rising powers.

 

[Yossarian]

Can you tell me how will this safeguard work? How will US take control of the software or hardware that is not within their physical reach or connected to their network?

Same way that jets (for decades, never mind with the latest advances in military technology) have been able to distinguish between "Friend or Foe".

If a $50 dollar phone's sofware can do facial recognition, and a few thousand dollar car be driverless, meaning it can recognise it's surrounding, identify people and animals, distinguish between stationary and moving objects ...etc, I'm sure a jet fighter costing tens of $billions to develop, and sold for $ hundreds of millions each, would be capable of identifying 'Friend or Foe'. And that would be an integral part of the hardware/software of the jets. If anything, the radar/avionics are the most advanced components of a modern jetfighter

As for how the US would take control, do you not think that in an age where hackers can hack into some of the most secure government and corporate computer systems, the US government and military would be incapable of hacking into hardware/software designed and programmed by the US itself before being sold to a foreign government?

You may, or may not be aware that a modern jetfighter has numerous active and passive listening and communication devices, including radars, telecoms systems to communicate with ground control, targeting systems, controlling/directing missiles ...etc. Each and everyone of them is capable of being 'hacked'.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Same way that jets (for decades, never mind with the latest advances in military technology) have been able to distinguish between "Friend or Foe".

If a $50 dollar phone's sofware can do facial recognition, and a few thousand dollar car be driverless, meaning it can recognise it's surrounding, identify people and animals, distinguish between stationary and moving objects ...etc, I'm sure a jet fighter costing tens of $billions to develop, and sold for $ hundreds of millions each, would be capable of identifying 'Friend or Foe'. And that would be an integral part of the hardware/software of the jets. If anything, the radar/avionics are the most advanced components of a modern jetfighter

As for how the US would take control, do you not think that in an age where hackers can hack into some of the most secure government and corporate computer systems, the US government and military would be incapable of hacking into hardware/software designed and programmed by the US itself before being sold to a foreign government?

You may, or may not be aware that a modern jetfighter has numerous active and passive listening and communication devices, including radars, telecoms systems to communicate with ground control, targeting systems, controlling/directing missiles ...etc. Each and everyone of them is capable of being 'hacked'.

What stops buyers from installing jammers?

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Friends today... Foe tomorrow!!

The US has gone a bit schizophrenic in dealing with the challenge from rising powers.

When they are trying to protect internal jobs they also need others to buy the products.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Same way that jets (for decades, never mind with the latest advances in military technology) have been able to distinguish between "Friend or Foe".

If a $50 dollar phone's sofware can do facial recognition, and a few thousand dollar car be driverless, meaning it can recognise it's surrounding, identify people and animals, distinguish between stationary and moving objects ...etc, I'm sure a jet fighter costing tens of $billions to develop, and sold for $ hundreds of millions each, would be capable of identifying 'Friend or Foe'. And that would be an integral part of the hardware/software of the jets. If anything, the radar/avionics are the most advanced components of a modern jetfighter

As for how the US would take control, do you not think that in an age where hackers can hack into some of the most secure government and corporate computer systems, the US government and military would be incapable of hacking into hardware/software designed and programmed by the US itself before being sold to a foreign government?

You may, or may not be aware that a modern jetfighter has numerous active and passive listening and communication devices, including radars, telecoms systems to communicate with ground control, targeting systems, controlling/directing missiles ...etc. Each and everyone of them is capable of being 'hacked'.

Stuxnet virus was written in language that only very few people were aware of... it was used against Iranian nuclear facilities..

I would be surprised if US didn't have these backdoors!

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Stuxnet virus was written in language that only very few people were aware of... it was used against Iranian nuclear facilities..

I would be surprised if US didn't have these backdoors!

But it was fed through USB sticks to Iranian Nuclear system as systems were offline.

Back doors will definitely there(even Chines do that) but buyer can also use some technology to avoid this.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

When they are trying to protect internal jobs they also need others to buy the products.

When others get too powerful and don't need your product.... then what?

One day when say India no longer needs American products... it produces quality of its own.

You know how Hong Kong came about.... the British were forcing their product (opium) onto the Chinese and Chinese Were not powerful enough to say no.

That situation has now changed, you can't force china, they will bomb you back into oblivion.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

When others get too powerful and don't need your product.... then what?

One day when say India no longer needs American products... it produces quality of its own.

You know how Hong Kong came about.... the British were forcing their product (opium) onto the Chinese and Chinese Were not powerful enough to say no.

That situation has now changed, you can't force china, they will bomb you back into oblivion.

That's why trade wars are started.Even China is not immune to trade wars.Recent article from a Chinese guy says many Chinese companies will go bankrupt if trade war becomes worse.

For all the faults of US, China got lot of benefits from trade with US.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

That's why trade wars are started.Even China is not immune to trade wars.Recent article from a Chinese guy says many Chinese companies will go bankrupt if trade war becomes worse.

For all the faults of US, China got lot of benefits from trade with US.

They have taken them for a ride and so has the EU. Trump is right in that respect.

EU is a massive protectionist block, designed to keep everyone out and so is China. They have bled the western IP system unashamedly. There was a time when Europeans would throw white women at the Asians and get whatever done when force couldn't be applied. China has mastered that tactic and applied that successfully back at the westerners

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

They have taken them for a ride and so has the EU. Trump is right in that respect.

EU is a massive protectionist block, designed to keep everyone out and so is China. They have bled the western IP system unashamedly. There was a time when Europeans would throw white women at the Asians and get whatever done when force couldn't be applied. China has mastered that tactic and applied that successfully back at the westerners

About EU even though they are protectionists they doesn't have any technology giants unlike US.Looks like US made sure that Europe depends on US always in this.

I guess China got bit lucky by getting all the benefits from US/Europe especially from manufacturing point of view.I don't think any other country will be able to replicate this in future due to protectionism and increased Technological advancement.

 

[InziRules]

Same way that jets (for decades, never mind with the latest advances in military technology) have been able to distinguish between "Friend or Foe".

If a $50 dollar phone's sofware can do facial recognition, and a few thousand dollar car be driverless, meaning it can recognise it's surrounding, identify people and animals, distinguish between stationary and moving objects ...etc, I'm sure a jet fighter costing tens of $billions to develop, and sold for $ hundreds of millions each, would be capable of identifying 'Friend or Foe'. And that would be an integral part of the hardware/software of the jets. If anything, the radar/avionics are the most advanced components of a modern jetfighter

As for how the US would take control, do you not think that in an age where hackers can hack into some of the most secure government and corporate computer systems, the US government and military would be incapable of hacking into hardware/software designed and programmed by the US itself before being sold to a foreign government?

You may, or may not be aware that a modern jetfighter has numerous active and passive listening and communication devices, including radars, telecoms systems to communicate with ground control, targeting systems, controlling/directing missiles ...etc. Each and everyone of them is capable of being 'hacked'.

This is all assumption. As I said before, Friend or Foe detection is done via firing Radar signals. That is, CONSCIOUSLY

 

[KingKhanWC]

The US only cares about selling more arms to India as it did with Pakistan. It doesn't care about brown people whose culture is very different thousands of miles away. When India and Pakistan keep spending money on US weapons, the US wont want peace to prevail in the region.

It's a shame both nations cant see this.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

The US only cares about selling more arms to India as it did with Pakistan. It doesn't care about brown people whose culture is very different thousands of miles away. When India and Pakistan keep spending money on US weapons, the US wont want peace to prevail in the region.

It's a shame both nations cant see this.

If both countries accept LOC as border and move on i don't think we need to worry too much about buying weapons.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If both countries accept LOC as border and move on i don't think we need to worry too much about buying weapons.

There will still be skirmishes, nothing much will change.

Just give all of Kashmir independence and both sides should agree to work together in security terms and to help the new state flourish. Imagine the tourism alone will boost the economy and less weapon buys will help the people.

I hate to say it but both nations armies may not want any peace as their budget and influence will drop.

 

[Yossarian]

This is all assumption. As I said before, Friend or Foe detection is done via firing Radar signals. That is, CONSCIOUSLY

Does that mean a $50 phone's facial recognition software is able to recognise and tell the difference between two people because it uses radar signals? )

 

[InziRules]

Does that mean a $50 phone's facial recognition software is able to recognise and tell the difference between two people because it uses radar signals? )

What distance is facial recognition at, and what distance are fighter jets at?

Besides, if it was that easy to fool Tech, all we need to do is paint all our jets with the Indian flag. Job done

 

[Yossarian]

What stops buyers from installing jammers?

Jam what? Their own communications with ground control? Their own radar signals receptors? Their own weapons targeting systems?
I recall reading an article some time back which stated that it was theoretically possible to hack into sophisticated radar systems (as they rely upon digital hardware/software to interpret the bounced-off-target incoming signals) to introduce virus/malware into the system. How true this is I cannot say. But considering the advances in telecoms, computing etc, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Jam what? Their own communications with ground control? Their own radar signals receptors? Their own weapons targeting systems?
I recall reading an article some time back which stated that it was theoretically possible to hack into sophisticated radar systems (as they rely upon digital hardware/software to interpret the bounced-off-target incoming signals) to introduce virus/malware into the system. How true this is I cannot say. But considering the advances in telecoms, computing etc, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

When technology is so much improved why cant we have jammers which allows selected communication passage?.Also you are talking only about Jet there are other weapons like Missiles/Guns/Tanks US manufacture and some cases like Afghanistan/Syria same used against US forces. Backdoors will help only certain extent.US is not that dumb to believe back doors alone will save them from a reverse attack.

 

[Yossarian]

When technology is so much improved why cant we have jammers which allows selected communication passage?.Also you are talking only about Jet there are other weapons like Missiles/Guns/Tanks US manufacture and some cases like Afghanistan/Syria same used against US forces. Backdoors will help only certain extent.US is not that dumb to believe back doors alone will save them from a reverse attack.

Lets get back to the point I made earlier. Do you seriously believe that the US would risk the political fallout if the use of a highly sophisticated military hardware that was sold to a foreign country, which later had a conflict with the USA, resulted in US casualties?

For example.
If the current regime in Saudi Arabia was overthrown and it's replacement was hostile towards the USA, and ended up in a conflict with the USA. Do you seriously believe that the Saudi Forces would, in that scenario, be able to use the U.S. supplied jets and missiles against U.S. jets and warships? Of course not. I'm betting that, as both sides know this, there would be a mutual understanding regarding this as part of the purchase negotiations.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Lets get back to the point I made earlier. Do you seriously believe that the US would risk the political fallout if the use of a highly sophisticated military hardware that was sold to a foreign country, which later had a conflict with the USA, resulted in US casualties?

For example.
If the current regime in Saudi Arabia was overthrown and it's replacement was hostile towards the USA, and ended up in a conflict with the USA. Do you seriously believe that the Saudi Forces would, in that scenario, be able to use the U.S. supplied jets and missiles against U.S. jets and warships? Of course not. I'm betting that, as both sides know this, there would be a mutual understanding regarding this as part of the purchase negotiations.

I am not denying what you say,US is not dumb,but buyer can also have enough technology to counter US strategy.As i already mentioned enough US weapons used against them by Taliban/ISIS etc...

 

[Yossarian]

I am not denying what you say,US is not dumb,but buyer can also have enough technology to counter US strategy.As i already mentioned enough US weapons used against them by Taliban/ISIS etc...

Oh dear oh dear. You seriously think small armaments used by run-of-the-mill soldiers, which have occasionally fallen into the hands of those you mention, can be compared with the technology used in modern jet fighters and the like costing tens of $million, even $100+ million each?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Oh dear oh dear. You seriously think small armaments used by run-of-the-mill soldiers, which have occasionally fallen into the hands of those you mention, can be compared with the technology used in modern jet fighters and the like costing tens of $million, even $100+ million each?

Not his fault. That's what happens when you watch Race 3 and Singham on the same day. Where you can fire from the wrong side of Bazooka or whatever it is.

 

[TheLastGreatMan]

Oh dear oh dear. You seriously think small armaments used by run-of-the-mill soldiers, which have occasionally fallen into the hands of those you mention, can be compared with the technology used in modern jet fighters and the like costing tens of $million, even $100+ million each?

You are still not answering what stops buyer to use technology to counter US backdoor. Any way your small armaments killed 1000s of US soldiers and allies.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The stature of India and Indians continues to rise. The country known as the mother of civilization and which gave the concept of universal peace and non violence to the world, is finally getting its due. We should align with all like minded nations who stand for democracy and world peace.