What's new

[VIDEO] ‘No shouting two’: Desperate India accused of dodgy tactics by veteran umpire

Player gets abused by the crowed...
does he

A. Swear at the crowed and make silly gestures. Squeel on the pitch like a spoilt child and end up looking like a complete loser on TV or;

B. Walk up to the umpires and tell them that the abuse is unacceptable and that they should take action against the perpetrators?
 
This is how running works: if the ball is in front of the wicket, the striker makes the call. If the ball is behind the wicket, the non-striker makes the call. If the ball is in a position where both batsmen can view the ball, it comes down to mutual understanding.

Either way, the calls of the fielder should not dupe the batsmen. If they trust the fielders’ calls and take a risky run, they deserve to be run out.

I am not blaming the NZ batsmen for anything because I don’t think they have complained. That is why I mentioning the umpire here. He provided unnecessary protection to the NZ batsmen.

Thank you for reiterating basically what I said. So unlike what you said before, it is not always the batsmen’s job to look at the ball. Often, one of the batsmen calls and the other follows. So now, in a noisy ground, when the fielders are shouting ‘TWO, THREE, NO,’ etc there is a chance some confusion will be created at some point. Not every ball but eventually there would be some hesitation because it’s in the back of their mind. Which is a stupid way to play cricket.

Look, you are a good knowledgeable poster who always backs up your point, which is admirable. However it is obvious you are being completely biased here and picking this side because of India.

Let me put it another way, if the ball was hit straight into the air and the batsmen ran past the fielder about to take the catch and shouted ‘MINE’, there would be no issue with that?
 
Yes, we're #1 and it has nothing to do with a fielder shouting the word 'two'. Unnecessary overreaction from the usual bunch here.
 
Thank you for reiterating basically what I said. So unlike what you said before, it is not always the batsmen’s job to look at the ball. Often, one of the batsmen calls and the other follows. So now, in a noisy ground, when the fielders are shouting ‘TWO, THREE, NO,’ etc there is a chance some confusion will be created at some point. Not every ball but eventually there would be some hesitation because it’s in the back of their mind. Which is a stupid way to play cricket.

Look, you are a good knowledgeable poster who always backs up your point, which is admirable. However it is obvious you are being completely biased here and picking this side because of India.

Let me put it another way, if the ball was hit straight into the air and the batsmen ran past the fielder about to take the catch and shouted ‘MINE’, there would be no issue with that?

So you are saying that the batsmen cannot distinguish between his partner calling “two” from only a few feet away and the fielders calling “two” in the outfield?

If that is so, then I will still say that they deserve to get run out if they get conned in such fashion.
 
There was one similar tactics where the fielder chasing the ball in the outfield would make an action to fake throw it so that the batsman gets confused which was later told by MCC to not do it as it's against the fair play and spirit of the game, this incident looks something similar where the umpire straight away said not to do it,but it's suprising that they didn't fine the player who did it, I guess gave just a warning
 
So you are saying that the batsmen cannot distinguish between his partner calling “two” from only a few feet away and the fielders calling “two” in the outfield?

If that is so, then I will still say that they deserve to get run out if they get conned in such fashion.

The call wasn’t from the outfield, I believe it was from a fielder close ish to the stumps.

And secondly, yes it does become hard to discern who is calling when you have a helmet on and are sprinting for a run. Secondly, what about players who may have a slight hearing deficiency or their hearing isn’t as sharp? They deserve to be run out? Perhaps they should be playing disability cricket because the fielders should be able to fake call.
 
That would be a disaster. Kohli is simply too big a figure to play under another captain as long as he is still in his prime years.

He is the face of cricket today and captain or not, the spotlight will be on him when he is on the field.

Asking Kohli to play under Rohit is like asking Imran to play under Wasim. It is not going to work.

People will say that Kohli took over from Dhoni without a problem, but Kohli had already surpassed Dhoni in stature by then.

Maybe Kohli can play under Shaw or Gill in the future at the age of 37-38, but certainly not in 2020 under Rohit.

BCCI has enough sense to not shoot itself in the foot. Besides, Kohli has earned the right to lead this Indian team in transition period, and overtake G. Smith as the most prolific Test captain (by wins) in history.

I am not sure how big a figure Kohli is in Indian cricket hierarchy, but I'll take my chance here - he is NOWHERE NEAR what Sachin Tendulkar was in 1990s. And, that little man was sacked within few months of Captaincy - OK, not sacked, BCCI knows better than PCB how to respect their icons, so Tendulkar was allowed to step down with grace. I am telling the same here - for his own good, Kohli should step down to make it easy for everyone. If it wasn't Kohli, for any other player in that Indian team - I would have used the word "SACK".

Not sure either if Kohli is the face of world cricket. If so, I have to say the face is quite filthy - no disrespect to Kohli, but to be the face of a generation, you need something more than your playing ability - Kohli isn't Roger Federar or Leo Messi or Labron James in his sports.

Going back to the topic again, I am not sure about the respective status of Indian players in your list, but I saw Kapil Dev playing under Srikkant, then Azhar.... followed by Tendulkar playing under like half of the squad - Azhar, Ganguly, Kumble, Dravid, MS .... even Sehwag, and these guys were his contemporary, apart from MS (& Sehwag for few games). It wasn't embarrassing for Tendulkar though; will it be really that much insult thereafter for Kohli to play under Rohit Sharma?

Imarn/Akram example is a bit hilarious in this context for few reasons and that's not how great players they were - Wasim was cool 14 years younger than Imran and he was not even vice Captain when Imran retired. Biggest issue is, Imran had personality, presence and he was the standalone leader of the generation, while Wasim didn't even led his FC side by the time Imran retired. This guy Kohli is only the better batsman, but in any other scale, Sharma can teach him few tricks, including on field behavior. AND NO, MS Dhoni retired from Test cricket on his own and when Kohli took over from MS, he wasn't a bigger star than MS, by any stress of imagination - it's not even a bigger deal to replace Kohli with Rohit as Captain, than say MS replacing Dravid.

I know, you have some allergy with Imran, but let me tell you one more story - why that guy is respected all over the world, had his own unique image and why he is PM of PAK now. 38 years back Imran was the Captain, and the best player of the then world, Javed was his deputy - Imran got injured, left cricket for two years and in the mean time Javed was made Captain till end of 1985. Upon return, sometimes in early 1985 (before NZ tour), Gen. Ghulam Safdar Butt (Then PCB Chairman) asked Imran to take over the charge from Javed - which Imran declined. He allowed Miandad to complete his tenure, played under him for full year, and took charge of the team after Javed's assigned tenure was over.

I hope, BCCI does have enough sense, otherwise clock is running on a ticking bomb - and we don't know how many minutes left there.
 
Must be embarrassing for Indians to have to support this guy. Not a very likeable personality at all!
 
I am not sure how big a figure Kohli is in Indian cricket hierarchy, but I'll take my chance here - he is NOWHERE NEAR what Sachin Tendulkar was in 1990s. And, that little man was sacked within few months of Captaincy - OK, not sacked, BCCI knows better than PCB how to respect their icons, so Tendulkar was allowed to step down with grace. I am telling the same here - for his own good, Kohli should step down to make it easy for everyone. If it wasn't Kohli, for any other player in that Indian team - I would have used the word "SACK".

Not sure either if Kohli is the face of world cricket. If so, I have to say the face is quite filthy - no disrespect to Kohli, but to be the face of a generation, you need something more than your playing ability - Kohli isn't Roger Federar or Leo Messi or Labron James in his sports.

Going back to the topic again, I am not sure about the respective status of Indian players in your list, but I saw Kapil Dev playing under Srikkant, then Azhar.... followed by Tendulkar playing under like half of the squad - Azhar, Ganguly, Kumble, Dravid, MS .... even Sehwag, and these guys were his contemporary, apart from MS (& Sehwag for few games). It wasn't embarrassing for Tendulkar though; will it be really that much insult thereafter for Kohli to play under Rohit Sharma?

Imarn/Akram example is a bit hilarious in this context for few reasons and that's not how great players they were - Wasim was cool 14 years younger than Imran and he was not even vice Captain when Imran retired. Biggest issue is, Imran had personality, presence and he was the standalone leader of the generation, while Wasim didn't even led his FC side by the time Imran retired. This guy Kohli is only the better batsman, but in any other scale, Sharma can teach him few tricks, including on field behavior. AND NO, MS Dhoni retired from Test cricket on his own and when Kohli took over from MS, he wasn't a bigger star than MS, by any stress of imagination - it's not even a bigger deal to replace Kohli with Rohit as Captain, than say MS replacing Dravid.

I know, you have some allergy with Imran, but let me tell you one more story - why that guy is respected all over the world, had his own unique image and why he is PM of PAK now. 38 years back Imran was the Captain, and the best player of the then world, Javed was his deputy - Imran got injured, left cricket for two years and in the mean time Javed was made Captain till end of 1985. Upon return, sometimes in early 1985 (before NZ tour), Gen. Ghulam Safdar Butt (Then PCB Chairman) asked Imran to take over the charge from Javed - which Imran declined. He allowed Miandad to complete his tenure, played under him for full year, and took charge of the team after Javed's assigned tenure was over.

I hope, BCCI does have enough sense, otherwise clock is running on a ticking bomb - and we don't know how many minutes left there.

Tendulkar was a completely different character to Kohli. He was a quiet figure with no personality. Apart from his genius with the bat, he had nothing going for him.

Tendulkar capitalized in an era where Indian cricket was not commercialized and he was the only superstar batsman in Indian cricket for over a decade when they were struggling to compete with Pakistan outside World Cups.

Had he played under Kohli, he would not be a god and he would barely get an endorsement deals with his height, voice, hair and physique.

Having Tendulkar play as captain under someone else is completely different to having Kohli play under someone else.

Kohli may not be everyone’s cup of tea and this is Kohli bashing season with different people releasing their frustration for different reasons as you rightly pointed out in another thread, but in spite of having a filthy face, it is beyond any debate that he is indeed the face of cricket today.

In terms of popularity, stature, star power, fan following etc. this guy is standing all alone today. No one is anywhere near him. He is definitely the Messi, Federe, LeBron type figure in his sport.

He is the Tendulkar of this generation when it comes to those aspects, but the difference between him and Tendulkar is that his personality is polar opposite. He cannot be a quiet figure on the field who is only concerned with his runs.

That is why it is simply unfair for any captain to be given the impossible task of captaining him. To captain Kohli you have to be a bigger star and a bigger personality, and there is no one in the world today let alone the Indian team.

He is not Tendulkar who could play under Ganguly, Dravid and Dhoni.

As far as Dhoni is concerned, Kohli was starting to overtake him by 2013-14 in terms of popularity, and he only replaced him in Test cricket when Dhoni retired.

Kohli replaced him in ODIs and T20Is in Jan 2017 when he was a far bigger star and player.
By 2015-16, half of Indian fans were begging Dhoni to leave.

Dravid was basically a superior version of Pujara of his time. A quiet gentleman who did not have a love-hate relationship with anyone, and would go about his business with or without captaincy.

Ganguly has enough sense not to replace the most successful Indian Test captain and the biggest star in the cricket world today with Rohit Sharma, who has contributed as much to India’s Test success in the last 5 years as Ganguly himself.
 
Tendulkar was a completely different character to Kohli. He was a quiet figure with no personality. Apart from his genius with the bat, he had nothing going for him.

Tendulkar capitalized in an era where Indian cricket was not commercialized and he was the only superstar batsman in Indian cricket for over a decade when they were struggling to compete with Pakistan outside World Cups.

Had he played under Kohli, he would not be a god and he would barely get an endorsement deals with his height, voice, hair and physique.

Having Tendulkar play as captain under someone else is completely different to having Kohli play under someone else.

Kohli may not be everyone’s cup of tea and this is Kohli bashing season with different people releasing their frustration for different reasons as you rightly pointed out in another thread, but in spite of having a filthy face, it is beyond any debate that he is indeed the face of cricket today.

In terms of popularity, stature, star power, fan following etc. this guy is standing all alone today. No one is anywhere near him. He is definitely the Messi, Federe, LeBron type figure in his sport.

He is the Tendulkar of this generation when it comes to those aspects, but the difference between him and Tendulkar is that his personality is polar opposite. He cannot be a quiet figure on the field who is only concerned with his runs.

That is why it is simply unfair for any captain to be given the impossible task of captaining him. To captain Kohli you have to be a bigger star and a bigger personality, and there is no one in the world today let alone the Indian team.

He is not Tendulkar who could play under Ganguly, Dravid and Dhoni.

As far as Dhoni is concerned, Kohli was starting to overtake him by 2013-14 in terms of popularity, and he only replaced him in Test cricket when Dhoni retired.

Kohli replaced him in ODIs and T20Is in Jan 2017 when he was a far bigger star and player.
By 2015-16, half of Indian fans were begging Dhoni to leave.

Dravid was basically a superior version of Pujara of his time. A quiet gentleman who did not have a love-hate relationship with anyone, and would go about his business with or without captaincy.

Ganguly has enough sense not to replace the most successful Indian Test captain and the biggest star in the cricket world today with Rohit Sharma, who has contributed as much to India’s Test success in the last 5 years as Ganguly himself.

Long post, but I got scared with your first line - Tendulkar didn't have any personality, but Kohli has, for his shouting & middle fingers to spectators .....

Please leave me here, I have accepted your every point, even without reading it.
 
Long post, but I got scared with your first line - Tendulkar didn't have any personality, but Kohli has, for his shouting & middle fingers to spectators .....

Please leave me here, I have accepted your every point, even without reading it.

Okay, but if you think Tendulkar had the same amount of charisma and personality as Kohli, then there is no point in further discussion.
 
For his own good, Kohli should step down from Captaincy and try to regain his batting form. He has taken team to No. 1 in Test and has one bite to every ICC LO event. Or may be stick to Test Captaincy till Test Championship Final but step down for LO immediately. There is a readymade (better) replacement available for LO cricket.

He was never a good boy, now when the team & individually he is struggling, it’s becoming vulgar by day.

Who would replace Kohli as captain across three formats? Rohit sharma looks ideal choice in white ball cricket but what about red ball cricket again rohit or any other better choice than kohli,

Rohit always captains Indian white ball side when kohli is not playing, if i am not wrong Rahana is the test vice captain,looking at Rahana"s test form it looks highly unlikely that he would become Indian test captain then would you again prefer Rohit sharma as test captain?
 
Okay, but if you think Tendulkar had the same amount of charisma and personality as Kohli, then there is no point in further discussion.

I actually think other way - Tendulkar had bigger, not equal charisma than Kohli, because I have seen the guy walking into stadium carrying the hope of a billion, for a very average team. I put it other way - I have seen fanatic Indian fans leaving ground with the dismissal of Tendulkar regardless of match condition; which you'll never see for any player.

Regarding personality, I don't think Kohli has a personality more mature than Harbhajan Singh let alone Tendulkar. Tendulkar had his own presence in front of Sir Gary, Sir Don, Sunil Gavaskar......Kohli has his one in front of Ravi Shastri. Screaming, shouting, swearing, body gesture might show his aggression and competitiveness, not personality. Otherwise, I have to say kids should follow Connor McGregor for personality tips.
 
Who would replace Kohli as captain across three formats? Rohit sharma looks ideal choice in white ball cricket but what about red ball cricket again rohit or any other better choice than kohli,

Rohit always captains Indian white ball side when kohli is not playing, if i am not wrong Rahana is the test vice captain,looking at Rahana"s test form it looks highly unlikely that he would become Indian test captain then would you again prefer Rohit sharma as test captain?

You entered late bro - never even think that I am taking my pun at Kohli, when the guy is on mat. My suggestion (I am not entitled, so you can read as a view) was to make Sharma as LO Captain immediately, so that half the pressure on Kohli's shoulder is off, which should relax him a lot as well. And, what I have seen, Sharma definitely is a better Captain of the two, capable enough player as well to lead from the front.

For Test, ideal candidate should have been Ashwin - cool, calm, composed and educated guy; a brilliant match winner as well in his comfort zone, never a liability outside that either, and now a Test specialist - a perfect candidate for Test Captaincy. But, he wasn't trusted in past and now he is over aged, struggling to keep his spot in all-condition.

For that, VK can carry on Test Captaincy without the baggage of LO Captaincy till ICC Test Championship - that's June 2021 (Or March 2021, if IND fails to make the Final). IND's following home season starts from winter of 2021, a cool 18/19 months from now and BCCI has enough time to groom a deputy to take over from there on. You can make Hardik Pandeya or Shardul Thakur Test Captain, yet I don't think it'll make much of a difference in home condition. Otherwise, by 2023/4, when next cycle of SENA tour starts, almost 35 years old Kohli might start to act like 12 years boy by then, and that question will ever remain - who'll take over, because as a player, someone like Kohli comes once in every 2-3 decades.
 
You entered late bro - never even think that I am taking my pun at Kohli, when the guy is on mat. My suggestion (I am not entitled, so you can read as a view) was to make Sharma as LO Captain immediately, so that half the pressure on Kohli's shoulder is off, which should relax him a lot as well. And, what I have seen, Sharma definitely is a better Captain of the two, capable enough player as well to lead from the front.

For Test, ideal candidate should have been Ashwin - cool, calm, composed and educated guy; a brilliant match winner as well in his comfort zone, never a liability outside that either, and now a Test specialist - a perfect candidate for Test Captaincy. But, he wasn't trusted in past and now he is over aged, struggling to keep his spot in all-condition.

For that, VK can carry on Test Captaincy without the baggage of LO Captaincy till ICC Test Championship - that's June 2021 (Or March 2021, if IND fails to make the Final). IND's following home season starts from winter of 2021, a cool 18/19 months from now and BCCI has enough time to groom a deputy to take over from there on. You can make Hardik Pandeya or Shardul Thakur Test Captain, yet I don't think it'll make much of a difference in home condition. Otherwise, by 2023/4, when next cycle of SENA tour starts, almost 35 years old Kohli might start to act like 12 years boy by then, and that question will ever remain - who'll take over, because as a player, someone like Kohli comes once in every 2-3 decades.

i just wanted your views on who would you have preferred as Indian test captain because you never really wrote about next possible Indian test captain all through your discussions, just that

I am not debating that he is the best ever Indian test captain, I agree Kohli is not the best tactical captains like Dhoni or Micheal Clarke of this modern era. He is just a lead from the front kind of captain who performs exceptional as a player but very average as captain with these many number of matches as captain and was groomed under Dhoni whose captain skills I rate highly.

But his captain skills are pretty average which was seen him making blunders in selecting final 11 in that 2018 RSA and UK test tour and of course the bowling first in CT2017 final and sending Dhoni at number 7 in WC2019 semi-final.

As you have hinted for now till test championship, stay with kohli but India definitely needs to groom a test captain now because no one looks a clear candidate in tests. Maybe Prithvi Shaw if he could develop his game in near future.
 
Last edited:
Kohli was really bad this Test.

Swore and gestured at the crowd and his celebrations were way over the top. Came off like a massive idiot.

You can get away with it when you let your bat do the taking but incredibly annoying when the only performances are with the mouth.

Kohli has always acted like this. This is just one of the rare instances where him and his team performance has been well below mediocre.
 
Okay, but if you think Tendulkar had the same amount of charisma and personality as Kohli, then there is no point in further discussion.
Does Kohli's PR team pay you to defend him?

I'm reading social media to see the reaction to this series loss and most Indians do not look to Kohli very favorably, a lot of name calling and abuse directed to him. Most seem to want him gone.
 
Thank you for reiterating basically what I said. So unlike what you said before, it is not always the batsmen’s job to look at the ball. Often, one of the batsmen calls and the other follows. So now, in a noisy ground, when the fielders are shouting ‘TWO, THREE, NO,’ etc there is a chance some confusion will be created at some point. Not every ball but eventually there would be some hesitation because it’s in the back of their mind. Which is a stupid way to play cricket.

Look, you are a good knowledgeable poster who always backs up your point, which is admirable. However it is obvious you are being completely biased here and picking this side because of India.

Let me put it another way, if the ball was hit straight into the air and the batsmen ran past the fielder about to take the catch and shouted ‘MINE’, there would be no issue with that?

How many times in the history of cricket batsman has fallen to this kind of call ?
 
Its laughable to suggest that Tendulkar didn't have a personality. And that he just knew how to bat....

If thats what one thinks, he didn't see Tendulkar much. Just because he didn't act like a clown on and off the field doesn't mean, he had no persona.

I like Kohli, the batsman immensely, one of my all time favorite bats. However, I can't say the same about him as a person. Always found him fake, whether he is exchanging pleasantries or abuses with someone. Just a wannabe in every possible way as a person...
 
I like Kohli, the batsman immensely, one of my all time favorite bats. However, I can't say the same about him as a person. Always found him fake, whether he is exchanging pleasantries or abuses with someone. Just a wannabe in every possible way as a person...

Agree. His statements after the match, his behaviour on the field, come across as fake and forced. It's gotten annoying now, especially with all the excuses he comes up with when they're not doing well.
 
Agree. His statements after the match, his behaviour on the field, come across as fake and forced. It's gotten annoying now, especially with all the excuses he comes up with when they're not doing well.
On the basis of his 5 years tenure as India's test captain, I can safely say he just can't be diplomatic. Not that its a personality flaw essentially, some people aren't meant to be diplomatic or nice which is perfectly fine in my opinion. However, when they try to act like one then it becomes an issue, really ugly one.
 
Like for instance, likes of Dravid, Amla & Tendulkar were and are really nice guys, on and off the field. Even if they try to abuse someone, it won't suit them. They don't have to force themselves to be nice to the people all the time, being nice is their personality trait something which comes naturally to them.

Complete opposite of them would be the likes of Ganguly & McGrath, at least during their playing days. Even if they try to be nice, it won't look good on them.

However now have a look at them especially McGrath, you won't believe yourself especially if you've seen his behaviour as a player.
 
I'd Inzi too to that list of really nice guys, except for that 'Aloo' episode in Toronto where he really lost his composure.
 
Really pathetic from the Indians. Then again I’m not surprised.
 
On the basis of his 5 years tenure as India's test captain, I can safely say he just can't be diplomatic. Not that its a personality flaw essentially, some people aren't meant to be diplomatic or nice which is perfectly fine in my opinion. However, when they try to act like one then it becomes an issue, really ugly one.
The thing is his aggressive behaviour on the field seems fake and forced too.
 
Back
Top