[VIDEO] Azeem Rafiq files a legal claim against Yorkshire County Cricket Club

[Mamoon]

Mamoon if you're going to ridicule him, at least get your story right. It was an Aussie cricketer who called him a terrorist and when he reported it to management they told him to leave it as that and not take it any further. This goes back to my point on how the problem goes well beyond county cricket as ECB were reluctant to back Moeen on this.

Well it is the same thing really. If he wasn’t getting humiliated on the pitch, and would have actually managed to respond with the bat or the ball, he wouldn’t have the need to moan about it later on.

 

[Abdullah719]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Give it a rest. If this was about a non-Muslim player for the Pakistan team, you would have been sympathising for them. A case in point was when Shoaib Akhtar claimed that Kaneria had been mistreated and on the thread corresponding to this discussion, you said:

“There is no doubt that his religion has contributed to the lack of respect and recognition from the Pakistani fans and players“. If I need to jog your memory, the thread is here:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?291080-Shoaib-Akhtar-opens-up-on-treatment-of-Danish-Kaneria-based-on-his-religion

This is in spite of the fact you don’t even find Mr Akhtar even close to being credible as per your views on him when you’ve repeatedly said “When Shoaib talks you don’t listen”. But it it took you no time to support his claim because it was a convenient opportunity to bring up your far left narrative.

Now contrast your words of sympathy for the match fixer Kaneria with the way you’re ridiculing Rafiq. As Hasan pointed out, we all know he wasn’t good enough but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t highlight the institutional racism that is clearly rampant in English cricket.

But you would never understand nor comprehend the ground realities because you’re not even based in the UK, which means you could never relate to these issues faced by British Asian cricketers especially as you’re from a privileged background in Pakistan.

Last year, you also foolishly decided to target Liverpool’s Salah, I say foolishly because you called him out for a diving in a PL game even though every pundit/analyst disputed this to have been the case. When you were being exposed for your ignorance you decided to bring up Salah’s religion as the reason for posters being “overly defensive” of him. Again to jog memory, see the relevant thread below:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?270793-Has-Mohamed-Salah-proved-that-he-is-a-world-class-player&p=10599787

You did yourself no favours by doing that because you just came across as someone who was picking on Salah for being Muslim. Perhaps it’s the reason why you have been ridiculing Moeen Ali for “playing the race card” and now Azeem Rafiq - and yes I agree Moeen Ali isn’t good enough to play for England.

Yes there are plenty of Pakistanis and Muslims who use their race/religion card to their advantage/garner sympathy but I guess it’s difficult for a far left wing nutcase like yourself to not paint a certain group of people with the same brush right?

Your hypocrisy and double standards is there for everyone to see and I will conclude by saying that your views epitomise why the far left are just as toxic (and in some cases more dangerous) as those who are far right.

Brutal.

 

[Khan12]

[/b]

There seems to be a strong correlation between how mediocre an Asian cricketer is and how much he whines about racism/discrimination/scapegoating.

If Moeen wasn’t get bullied on the pitch by the Australians and would have actually performed, he wouldn’t have complained about crowd behavior.

So let me get this right sterling is not good so it's fine to be racist towards him. Unbelievable.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Give it a rest. If this was about a non-Muslim player for the Pakistan team, you would have been sympathising for them. A case in point was when Shoaib Akhtar claimed that Kaneria had been mistreated and on the thread corresponding to this discussion, you said:

"There is no doubt that his religion has contributed to the lack of respect and recognition from the Pakistani fans and players". If I need to jog your memory, the thread is here:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?291080-Shoaib-Akhtar-opens-up-on-treatment-of-Danish-Kaneria-based-on-his-religion

This is in spite of the fact you don't even find Mr Akhtar even close to being credible as per your views on him when you've repeatedly said "When Shoaib talks you don't listen". But it it took you no time to support his claim because it was a convenient opportunity to bring up your far left narrative.

Now contrast your words of sympathy for the match fixer Kaneria with the way you're ridiculing Rafiq. As Hasan pointed out, we all know he wasn't good enough but that doesn't mean he shouldn't highlight the institutional racism that is clearly rampant in English cricket.

But you would never understand nor comprehend the ground realities because you're not even based in the UK, which means you could never relate to these issues faced by British Asian cricketers especially as you're from a privileged background in Pakistan.

Last year, you also foolishly decided to target Liverpool's Salah, I say foolishly because you called him out for a diving in a PL game even though every pundit/analyst disputed this to have been the case. When you were being exposed for your ignorance you decided to bring up Salah's religion as the reason for posters being "overly defensive" of him. Again to jog memory, see the relevant thread below:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?270793-Has-Mohamed-Salah-proved-that-he-is-a-world-class-player&p=10599787

You did yourself no favours by doing that because you just came across as someone who was picking on Salah for being Muslim. Perhaps it's the reason why you have been ridiculing Moeen Ali for "playing the race card" and now Azeem Rafiq - and yes I agree Moeen Ali isn't good enough to play for England.

Yes there are plenty of Pakistanis and Muslims who use their race/religion card to their advantage/garner sympathy but I guess it's difficult for a far left wing nutcase like yourself to not paint a certain group of people with the same brush right?

Your hypocrisy and double standards is there for everyone to see and I will conclude by saying that your views epitomise why the far left are just as toxic (and in some cases more dangerous) as those who are far right.

I have a lot of respect for the way Kaneria conducted himself while he was a Pakistan player. He never played the victim card and never moaned about mistreatment in spite of the fact that he was severely underrated by the fans and the media.

Moreover, you cannot really compare the treatment of minorities in UK with Pakistan. Hindus in Pakistan will not enjoy the same status and freedom as Muslims in the UK even in a thousand years.

Pakistan is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to treatment of minorities, and in spite of that, Kaneria never played the Hindu card while representing Pakistan, and for that he deserves massive respect.

And what’s the problem with calling Salah a diver? It is a fact. He goes down very easily and makes the most of little contact. He is no different to other divers like, Zaha, Sterling, Dele Alli, Daniel James etc.

But it is okay to criticize them but it is a problem to call Salah and Mane divers because that makes you a bigot.

Now that is exactly the problem with people who are always quick to play the race/religion card.

If an underperforming, white player gets dropped he has no card to play; if an underperforming, Asian player gets dropped, he can play the race card and he will immediately gather sympathy from gullible folks.

 

[Mamoon]

The bottom-line is that he would have been worthy of receiving some sympathy and attention if he did not have a documented history of bad behavior and blaming others for his shortcomings.

He should have been booted out for good after his tweet about ECB and the U-19 coach in 2010.

That should have been the end of Mr. Mediocre.

 

[tyron_woodley]

?? How do you know? Have you ever been to Pakistan?

When foreigners, especially from Europe, come to Pakistan, they are treated like kings and queens. I am not saying this is good, but it is the exact opposite of what you said, that if an English person played cricket in Pakistan, they would be racially abused. These things are much more complex than that.

That's your fault then isn't it? Don't need to act obsequiously towards English people. Why do people from your country still do it then? You guys are sycophants for doing so. India too.

You got to be proud of yourself. Proud of being a Pakistani. Put them in their place. desis in general need to understand the difference in culture and adapt accordingly. You can't act like suck ups in your own country. Just because they are white doesn't mean they are superior in any shape or form. The white worshipping mentality is yet to change. They have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Muhammad10]

It's ok, guys. Racism isn't bad unless the player being discriminated against is an elite player. #MamoonGems

 

[Muhammad10]

Interesting to note that the guy who is one of the harshest critics of Pakistani players and never misses an opportunity to trash our players (including the genuinely decent ones) finds Danish Kaneria of all people to be underrated. I wonder why that could be...

 

[tyron_woodley]

I agree tourists are treated well but not those who come to work in Pakistan. A good example is with Pakistan Coaches appointed from overseas. For e.g. Mickey Arthur was onced called an "incompetent gora" which is nothing short of being racist. Whenever an overseas coach is appointed, it's just rinse repeat with all the racist outbursts.

I'm afraid to say this is a reflection of Pakistani society.

exactly this. Tourists is what these posters are referring to. I don't care about tourists. I am talking about an English born player plying his trade in pakistam. I am certain he will be segregated in the first class cricket system. He will have to bear the racial taunts. Its expected.

 

[tyron_woodley]

How would India treat him under the mohdis clan

we would segregate him too. We are all racists or bigots is what I am trying to say. So stop playing the victim card. Life isn't fair. We have to make people respect us. Earn the respect by performing.

I am not even from india.Born and raised in australia. indian origin. My parents were born in australia too.

 

[Muhammad10]

we would segregate him too. We are all racists or bigots is what I am trying to say. So stop playing the victim card. Life isn't fair. We have to make people respect us. Earn the respect by performing.

I am not even from india.Born and raised in australia. indian origin. My parents were born in australia too.

Ah. So racism is actually the victim's fault because he isn't an exceptional performer. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I have a lot of respect for the way Kaneria conducted himself while he was a Pakistan player. He never played the victim card and never moaned about mistreatment in spite of the fact that he was severely underrated by the fans and the media.

Moreover, you cannot really compare the treatment of minorities in UK with Pakistan. Hindus in Pakistan will not enjoy the same status and freedom as Muslims in the UK even in a thousand years.

Pakistan is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to treatment of minorities, and in spite of that, Kaneria never played the Hindu card while representing Pakistan, and for that he deserves massive respect.

And what’s the problem with calling Salah a diver? It is a fact. He goes down very easily and makes the most of little contact. He is no different to other divers like, Zaha, Sterling, Dele Alli, Daniel James etc.

But it is okay to criticize them but it is a problem to call Salah and Mane divers because that makes you a bigot.

Now that is exactly the problem with people who are always quick to play the race/religion card.

If an underperforming, white player gets dropped he has no card to play; if an underperforming, Asian player gets dropped, he can play the race card and he will immediately gather sympathy from gullible folks.

mamoon is spot on here. Pakistanis are just as racist. Infact there is favoritism, bigotry and racism present in every sport.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Ah. So racism is actually the victim's fault because he isn't an exceptional performer. Thanks for clearing that up.

his own country people are racists though? so why make a scene?

I am not saying he should be treated that way but there is nothing we can do apart from educating people regarding racism.

He cries racism only because he isn't good enough to get picked.

 

[Muhammad10]

his own country people are racists though? so why make a scene?

I am not saying he should be treated that way but there is nothing we can do apart from educating people regarding racism.

He cries racism only because he isn't good enough to get picked.

Ah ok. So basically everyone should be held responsible for the racism of their fellow countrymen. I assume then that no one from any country should ever complain about racism because there is no nation that is free of racism.
Basically, you seem to be in favour of a free-for-all approach with zero accountability.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Hi Tyron, so on your other points:

‘Racism exists everywhere’ - Yes, this is broadly right. But all racism or prejudice has context. So, in Pakistan there is discrimination on sectarian; gender; religious; socio-economic grounds and i am sure many others. But that can’t mean that we should just accept racism? After all, crimes happen everywhere in the world, and criminal activity is also a part of human nature, does that mean we should be ok with crime because ‘crime exists everywhere’?

‘Most ethnic groups will stick to their own communities’ - Also true. But the divisions between communities are not just because the minorities ‘haven’t learnt the language’, the reasons for these divisions can be widespread, including structural racism, the socio-economic background of the specific migrants (Chinese and Indian migrants are generally from more affluent backgrounds and so do better and often integrate more - people like Rishi Sunak, Priti Patel - are now integrated into the elite stratas of British society, which is predominantly white. So I would say economics more than a person’s laziness about learning a language is more the reason for those divisions. The reason I bring this up is because I don’t want you to think that people don’t want to integrate, or feel part of your community (who wouldn’t want that?) and that’s why there are divisions. I also wouldn’t want you to think you cannot have a deep friendship or connection with someone from a different ethnic group.

So, the thing I picked up earlier, about your false equivalency ‘English born player in Pakistan...’ Like I said, they would be treated like gods. So if we think about why that is, we will see that structural racism in this context is the context of white supremacy. That may be main reason (apart from general curiosity and friendliness of Pakistani people) why European people are treated so well if they go to Pakistan (people won’t let you pay for stuff; they will want to talk to you; thank you for visiting; be hospitable; invite you for dinner; put you on tv). So, in England as well, especially in cricket, when they call people ‘p***’ or when the grandfather of someone on your team shouts that from the crowd, or a captain of a county cricket team is ‘openly racist’, that also reflects a culture of white supremacy.

I agree that people need to adapt to the culture in which they live generally, but, in terms of the cricket community, South Asians constitute a huge chunk of revenue from the amateur game. I think they make up about 25% of the amateur cricket playing population. But a very, very, very disproportionately small percentage of those players make it into the professional game. So this is the structural racism problem that English cricket faces. The ECB is very aware of this and is working on it. You can see the benefits of it in your current English cricket team. Unfortunately looks like Yorkshire have not been.

You said it yourself. Stop treating them like gods in your country. Why are you guys acting so hospitable to please the white supremacists? did they reciprocate the favour when you moved to their country?

Seems silly to me. If your own people look down upon themselves due to an inferiority complex then why can't the so called white supremacists? fix that issue and we will see more radical changes within the cricketing system.

 

[Wreck_It_Rauf]

We can't comment and speculate on this until more information had been released and thorough investigations conducted. Discussing his ability as a player or professionalism is absurd.

These are serious allegations and the manner in which some of you are side-stepping that by saying it happens in Pakistan as well is inexcusable. You can't downplay the seriousness by saying it's the norm. You people have the wrong attitude. No matter if you're a mediocre player, being racially abused and being given your notice via email shortly after your child was delivered still-born is inexcusable, if true.

We all harbour different opinions as we've grown up in different environments and cultures but I agree with the person who mentioned 'white worshipping'. It's still very much prevalent in asian circles and needs to change.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Ah ok. So basically everyone should be held responsible for the racism of their fellow countrymen. I assume then that no one from any country should ever complain about racism because there is no nation that is free of racism.
Basically, you seem to be in favour of a free-for-all approach with zero accountability.

it's funny how he cries racism only when he realized that he isn't good enough though. isn't it? There are always a going to be a few idiots out there who will utter expletives wirh racial undertones in every country.
It's up to us to grow a thick skin and fight back.

Just like how almost every woman in the world has experienced sexual harassment at some point. There are just too many idiots in the world. Can't stop them all. Its a work in progress. England have relied upon imports to Win the world cup anyway so we clearly see some progress. Infact without imported players they are a very mediocre side.

Pure English players lack the genetics and the physical attributes to perform in cricket or most sports for the matter. If anything they shouldn't be racist at all if they want to dominate in cricket.

 

[Rana]

I guess it’s not racism then is it [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] ?

Let’s hear it

 

[tyron_woodley]

We can't comment and speculate on this until more information had been released and thorough investigations conducted. Discussing his ability as a player or professionalism is absurd.

These are serious allegations and the manner in which some of you are side-stepping that by saying it happens in Pakistan as well is inexcusable. You can't downplay the seriousness by saying it's the norm. You people have the wrong attitude. No matter if you're a mediocre player, being racially abused and being given your notice via email shortly after your child was delivered still-born is inexcusable, if true.

We all harbour different opinions as we've grown up in different environments and cultures but I agree with the person who mentioned 'white worshipping'. It's still very much prevalent in asian circles and needs to change.

yes that was me. They need to top that if you want to see some radical changes. Respect yourself. Carry yourself with pride. Be proud of being a Pakistani.

You guys have played a lot less cricket than englund and yet you have managed to win more world titles and produce more ATGs post amateur cricket era.

You have given the world wasim, anwar, miandad, inzi, younis, shoaib etc. Way better quality players than England can ever dream of producing.

Can you imagine shoaib sucking up to a white guy? I don't think so.

 

[Muhammad10]

it's funny how he cries racism only when he realized that he isn't good enough though. isn't it? There are always a going to be a few idiots out there who will utter expletives wirh racial undertones in every country.
It's up to us to grow a thick skin and fight back.

Just like how almost every woman in the world has experienced sexual harassment at some point. There are just too many idiots in the world. Can't stop them all. Its a work in progress. England have relied upon imports to Win the world cup anyway so we clearly see some progress. Infact without imported players they are a very mediocre side.

Pure English players lack the genetics and the physical attributes to perform in cricket or most sports for the matter. If anything they shouldn't be racist at all if they want to dominate in cricket.

From what I've read, it's more to do with him having moved on from cricket for the most part, so he doesn't have to worry too much about the potential consequences of speaking out since he is not reliant on cricket now.

 

[sabre1486]

Azeem Rafiq's 'bad behaviour' notwithstanding, his cricketing ability notwithstanding, no one should be told there are 'too many of you lot'....no one should have to bury their child and then be released from their job in that way.....andrew gale, ex-yorkshire captain and current coach should be pulled up - he's got history with some very poor on-field behaviour.

Its ridiculous that people are conflating a work environment and a person's capabilities. No matter how bad you are at your job, you wont be expected to put up with a discriminatory environment.

 

[Wreck_It_Rauf]

Agree with Sabre wholeheartedly. The comments on this thread are the equivalent of me making an error in the office, being racially abused and then people only looking at the fact that I made an error, thus overlooking the elephant in the room.

 

[Rana]

Azeem Rafiq's 'bad behaviour' notwithstanding, his cricketing ability notwithstanding, no one should be told there are 'too many of you lot'....no one should have to bury their child and then be released from their job in that way.....andrew gale, ex-yorkshire captain and current coach should be pulled up - he's got history with some very poor on-field behaviour.

Its ridiculous that people are conflating a work environment and a person's capabilities. No matter how bad you are at your job, you wont be expected to put up with a discriminatory environment.

This.

Excellent post

 

[Saj]

I had a chat with Ajmal Shehzad today about Azeem's claims.

Ajmal was a team-mate of Azeem's at Yorkshire and he said he never had any such issues during his time at Yorkshire and never had any problems while he was there.

 

[FreePalestine]

You said it yourself. Stop treating them like gods in your country. Why are you guys acting so hospitable to please the white supremacists? did they reciprocate the favour when you moved to their country?

Seems silly to me. If your own people look down upon themselves due to an inferiority complex then why can't the so called white supremacists? fix that issue and we will see more radical changes within the cricketing system.

What I was trying to explain was that it is a system of white supremacy, which has to do with the history of colonialism that ties our two countries.

But it just seems like you want to look down on brown people and for that to be ok, if I understand you correctly?

 

[FreePalestine]

You said it yourself. Stop treating them like gods in your country. Why are you guys acting so hospitable to please the white supremacists? did they reciprocate the favour when you moved to their country?

Seems silly to me. If your own people look down upon themselves due to an inferiority complex then why can't the so called white supremacists? fix that issue and we will see more radical changes within the cricketing system.

Or are you trying to say it is Azeem’s fault if someone calls him a ‘p***’ because he didn’t integrate?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Damn that's rough. Hope he is ok.
Unfortunately most people have to develop thick skin to survive overseas hey.

People are racist everywhere to be honest. If not racist it's usually bigotry. India are no exception and pakistan is no different. You guys look down upon Afghanis for example or people in general who have different religious beliefs.

You are telling me an English kid who plays in pakistan won't be racially abused? It's all the same.

When you are a minority, you will get picked on. It's up to you to fight back and stand up for yourself.

Why are you justifying and generalizing racism?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The bottom-line is that he would have been worthy of receiving some sympathy and attention if he did not have a documented history of bad behavior and blaming others for his shortcomings.

He should have been booted out for good after his tweet about ECB and the U-19 coach in 2010.

That should have been the end of Mr. Mediocre.

Lol everything is a grand conspiracy theory to you. I guess its impossible for someone to just tell the truth sometimes

 

[Markhor]

Why are you justifying and generalizing racism?

It's remarkable some of the biggest defenders of racists in the west are our Indian friends. They'd sooner cast aspersions on the character of the accuser than condemn the perpetrator.

Trust me guys, the EDL types don't distinguish between Pakistanis and Indians, Sri Lankans or Bangladeshis. They're all the same to them.

 

[MenInG]

Seems the experience of all players is not the same

This is what Saqib Mahmood said to Saj:

Recent events in the United States and the new-found emphasis on race relations seem to have had a knock-on effect in sports but in Saqib’s experience, cricket has not been hit by the scourge of racism.

“I’ve seen some of the comments that others have made about being targets of racism, but I have never had any such problems,” he said. “Whether I have been the only Bame player in the squad or whether there have been other Bame players in the squad with me, I have never felt any different from the other players. I believe that the more people learn about your culture and your religion, the more they understand you and the more they know how to behave towards you and your beliefs.”

Moeen Ali, Adil Rashid, Jordan and Archer are examples of Bame players who have risen to the top to represent England with the ECB’s support. Saqib is clearly satisfied with the role of the ECB in this regard and feels that if the current policies continue, more players from Bame communities will climb the ladder.

“The best players will get to the very top irrespective of their race,” Saqib said. “The ECB is putting some plans into place to tap into the cricketing talent in both the Asian and Black communities in the UK and the ECB to their credit has noted the drop-off levels within the Bame communities of cricketers where they are not making it to the top level. They are looking at fixing these issues and by doing that we might get more Bame cricketers coming through to the highest level.”

https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/s...jnBCRXokmNiuVgses28uHahKGRbxOyBKNfI6P3_nJjEvc

 

[topspin]

I have a lot of respect for the way Kaneria conducted himself while he was a Pakistan player. He never played the victim card and never moaned about mistreatment in spite of the fact that he was severely underrated by the fans and the media.

Moreover, you cannot really compare the treatment of minorities in UK with Pakistan. Hindus in Pakistan will not enjoy the same status and freedom as Muslims in the UK even in a thousand years.

Pakistan is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to treatment of minorities, and in spite of that, Kaneria never played the Hindu card while representing Pakistan, and for that he deserves massive respect.

And what’s the problem with calling Salah a diver? It is a fact. He goes down very easily and makes the most of little contact. He is no different to other divers like, Zaha, Sterling, Dele Alli, Daniel James etc.

But it is okay to criticize them but it is a problem to call Salah and Mane divers because that makes you a bigot.

Now that is exactly the problem with people who are always quick to play the race/religion card.

If an underperforming, white player gets dropped he has no card to play; if an underperforming, Asian player gets dropped, he can play the race card and he will immediately gather sympathy from gullible folks.

Mamoon, the reason why you're deflecting is because you've been exposed for your double standards and hypocrisy. We're talking about the treatment of aspiring and professional Pakistanis/Desi/Muslim and non-Muslim cricketers in England and Pakistan (respectively), so I wonder why you're bringing up the issues of minorities in the general population. But how can I forget it's another convenient opportunity for you to come up with your far left rhetoric.

As for your first sentence, this is something I'd expect from a troll. That respect was no longer warranted when he decided to go into match fixing. I like how you're sympathetic towards Kaneria whereas with Rafiq, your double standard/hypocrisy comes out once again when you said in an earlier post:

"ECB actually let him off easily by fining him for £500 and banning him for a month. He should have been booted out for good because this type of behavior and attitude are not acceptable".

If you're going to talk about someone's behaviour, at least spell the word correctly.

I have no problem with you calling Salah a diver because he's been guilty of this on numerous occasions. I even mentioned this myself on that thread corresponding to the topic. The problem here is again you're deflecting from the point I made in my previous post. You called that particular incident a dive when it 100% wasn't. Instead of being the bigger man and accepting your error of judgement, you decided to turn on every Muslim (who were correcting you) by saying "the truth is that people are over-defensive of Salah because of “some” obvious reasons". If you can't accept or comprehend a simple footballing decision, just don't bring religion or someone's beliefs as an escape route.

"if an underperforming, Asian player gets dropped, he can play the race card and he will immediately gather sympathy from gullible folks .

If you're aiming this at me, let me remind you once again that you will never be able to relate to these issues nor come to understanding the ground realities, simply because you come from a privileged background in Pakistan. For your information, I was once coached by Aftab Habib, in case you don't know who he is, he played 2 test matches for England. Also, one of my best friends was signed up by Middlessex but chose Medicine over cricket. As you can imagine, I'm relatively well versed with what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to English cricket, so with the greatest of respect stick to your specialities because racism in English cricket isn't one of them!

 

[Varun]

He may not be the only one that faced this. I remember Tendulkar not having a good time with the club. That was some 25 years ago. Perhaps for the same reasons?

Any stories around this? In his autobiography, all he mentioned was the county gave him a car. He was hauled for speeding once but let go when the cop found out from the logo on the car that he was the first overseas Yorkshire player. That tale is the opposite of racism.

Going to wait until the proper investigation before I say anything. There's a history of minority players in sports lying about hate incidents.

Surely you can't deny the fact that he was let go days after the failed delivery of his stillborn child? At best, Yorkshire come across as insensitive and inhumane.

 

[Varun]

Check this out:

It is extraordinary to recall now that Rafiq's debut for Yorkshire in 2008 cost them a Twenty20 Cup quarter-final after his appearance in a group stage win over Nottinghamshire. Then an academy player, he was selected in good faith but questions over his eligibility led to Yorkshire's quarterfinal against Durham being postponed moments before it was due to begin to the disenchantment of the crowd and ultimately their effective disqualification after the result at Trent Bridge was reversed. It subsequently emerged that he was not properly registered and furthermore that he did not have a British passport and so, under ECB regulations, was ineligible to play for the county. It was a poor oversight from Yorkshire, who had long been aware of his talents. Yorkshire said, in their defence, that they had only taken him along for the ride, but had been presented with a worn Trent Bridge pitch and had to throw him into the match without a second thought.

This club needs to be disbanded. Or at least needs an HR department.

And then we wonder why England are the definition of cricketing mediocrity, despite inventing the game.

 

[Varun]

The most celebrated Asian player in recent times, Moeen Ali, is also on his last legs and seems to be finished at the highest level at 32-33.

What happened to Haseeb Hameed, and why was he unceremoniously dropped?

 

[HitWicket]

What happened to Haseeb Hameed, and why was he unceremoniously dropped?

He went back to Lancashire and completely lost his form to the point where he couldn't even get in the county first team.

 

[aloo paratha]

Surely you can't deny the fact that he was let go days after the failed delivery of his stillborn child? At best, Yorkshire come across as insensitive and inhumane.

Insensitive and inhumane is not racism.

 

[Rana]

Mamoon, the reason why you're deflecting is because you've been exposed for your double standards and hypocrisy. We're talking about the treatment of aspiring and professional Pakistanis/Desi/Muslim and non-Muslim cricketers in England and Pakistan (respectively), so I wonder why you're bringing up the issues of minorities in the general population. But how can I forget it's another convenient opportunity for you to come up with your far left rhetoric.

As for your first sentence, this is something I'd expect from a troll. That respect was no longer warranted when he decided to go into match fixing. I like how you're sympathetic towards Kaneria whereas with Rafiq, your double standard/hypocrisy comes out once again when you said in an earlier post:

"ECB actually let him off easily by fining him for £500 and banning him for a month. He should have been booted out for good because this type of behavior and attitude are not acceptable".

If you're going to talk about someone's behaviour, at least spell the word correctly.

I have no problem with you calling Salah a diver because he's been guilty of this on numerous occasions. I even mentioned this myself on that thread corresponding to the topic. The problem here is again you're deflecting from the point I made in my previous post. You called that particular incident a dive when it 100% wasn't. Instead of being the bigger man and accepting your error of judgement, you decided to turn on every Muslim (who were correcting you) by saying "the truth is that people are over-defensive of Salah because of “some” obvious reasons". If you can't accept or comprehend a simple footballing decision, just don't bring religion or someone's beliefs as an escape route.

"if an underperforming, Asian player gets dropped, he can play the race card and he will immediately gather sympathy from gullible folks .

If you're aiming this at me, let me remind you once again that you will never be able to relate to these issues nor come to understanding the ground realities, simply because you come from a privileged background in Pakistan. For your information, I was once coached by Aftab Habib, in case you don't know who he is, he played 2 test matches for England. Also, one of my best friends was signed up by Middlessex but chose Medicine over cricket. As you can imagine, I'm relatively well versed with what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to English cricket, so with the greatest of respect stick to your specialities because racism in English cricket isn't one of them!

Wait for his response, in which he will relate to everything in his version of England.

 

[Rajdeep]

It's remarkable some of the biggest defenders of racists in the west are our Indian friends. They'd sooner cast aspersions on the character of the accuser than condemn the perpetrator.

Trust me guys, the EDL types don't distinguish between Pakistanis and Indians, Sri Lankans or Bangladeshis. They're all the same to them.

This is not true though. EDL/Britain First type organizations are primarily far right islamophobic groups and not necessarily against all brown people. They have no issues with Hindus or Sikhs. During last independence day when Indian embassy in Aldwych London was attacked for Article 370 protest, likes of Tommie Robinson and Katie Hopkins took on twitter supporting India and Indians in UK.

Not that I am supporting people like Tommy but its a wrong notion that for organizations like EDL all brown guys are same. It is clearly not.

 

[observer1]

Firstly, The reason why BLM grew exponentially was because systemic racism was widespread and the elephant in the room. Any critics of BLM didn't have a leg to stand on.

Anybody living in the UK will know how supporters of Right Wing groups like EDL and Britain First get a free pass in racism, xenophobia and prejudice. The flames of which is fanned by a very toxic media.

"Comment sections" on Websites may seem dubious - But it's impossible to ignore the casual and general hatred so many Little Englander's have towards Blacks, Pakistanis and Muslims etc.

Secondly, I find it revolting that people would shoot down Azeem's claims over past isolated comments he made when he was younger - Especially when there hasn't been any investigation yet or otherwise.

Lastly, Some of the users here need to look up the term "Useful idiot". There is racism in the UK. It is widespread. That's all some people see when they see minorities. It is a real battle. So users talking about "Yeah but Asians can be racist too" need to understand that is irrelevant and you are simply shutting down dialogue.

This event should be used as an opportunity to tackle the casual racism that minorities face in the UK.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Give it a rest. If this was about a non-Muslim player for the Pakistan team, you would have been sympathising for them. A case in point was when Shoaib Akhtar claimed that Kaneria had been mistreated and on the thread corresponding to this discussion, you said:

"There is no doubt that his religion has contributed to the lack of respect and recognition from the Pakistani fans and players". If I need to jog your memory, the thread is here:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?291080-Shoaib-Akhtar-opens-up-on-treatment-of-Danish-Kaneria-based-on-his-religion

This is in spite of the fact you don't even find Mr Akhtar even close to being credible as per your views on him when you've repeatedly said "When Shoaib talks you don't listen". But it it took you no time to support his claim because it was a convenient opportunity to bring up your far left narrative.

Now contrast your words of sympathy for the match fixer Kaneria with the way you're ridiculing Rafiq. As Hasan pointed out, we all know he wasn't good enough but that doesn't mean he shouldn't highlight the institutional racism that is clearly rampant in English cricket.

But you would never understand nor comprehend the ground realities because you're not even based in the UK, which means you could never relate to these issues faced by British Asian cricketers especially as you're from a privileged background in Pakistan.

Last year, you also foolishly decided to target Liverpool's Salah, I say foolishly because you called him out for a diving in a PL game even though every pundit/analyst disputed this to have been the case. When you were being exposed for your ignorance you decided to bring up Salah's religion as the reason for posters being "overly defensive" of him. Again to jog memory, see the relevant thread below:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?270793-Has-Mohamed-Salah-proved-that-he-is-a-world-class-player&p=10599787

You did yourself no favours by doing that because you just came across as someone who was picking on Salah for being Muslim. Perhaps it's the reason why you have been ridiculing Moeen Ali for "playing the race card" and now Azeem Rafiq - and yes I agree Moeen Ali isn't good enough to play for England.

Yes there are plenty of Pakistanis and Muslims who use their race/religion card to their advantage/garner sympathy but I guess it's difficult for a far left wing nutcase like yourself to not paint a certain group of people with the same brush right?

Your hypocrisy and double standards is there for everyone to see and I will conclude by saying that your views epitomise why the far left are just as toxic (and in some cases more dangerous) as those who are far right.

Very good response.

Imo Rafiq's career nosedived because of the racism he felt. You cannot play sport when you are watching your back every moment.

My advice to all British Asians, if you play sport for any club, be the boss in the changining room. Racists are bulllies and cowards, they only attack the weak, quiet ones.

 

[tyron_woodley]

What I was trying to explain was that it is a system of white supremacy, which has to do with the history of colonialism that ties our two countries.

But it just seems like you want to look down on brown people and for that to be ok, if I understand you correctly?

no I am telling you guys to treat them the same way you treat your own people. There is no need for special treatment. They are no better than you in any shape or form. Chnage that mentality of being sycophants to English people and things will change for the better for Pakistan.

 

[albinogonk]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Give it a rest. If this was about a non-Muslim player for the Pakistan team, you would have been sympathising for them. A case in point was when Shoaib Akhtar claimed that Kaneria had been mistreated and on the thread corresponding to this discussion, you said:

"There is no doubt that his religion has contributed to the lack of respect and recognition from the Pakistani fans and players". If I need to jog your memory, the thread is here:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?291080-Shoaib-Akhtar-opens-up-on-treatment-of-Danish-Kaneria-based-on-his-religion

This is in spite of the fact you don't even find Mr Akhtar even close to being credible as per your views on him when you've repeatedly said "When Shoaib talks you don't listen". But it it took you no time to support his claim because it was a convenient opportunity to bring up your far left narrative.

Now contrast your words of sympathy for the match fixer Kaneria with the way you're ridiculing Rafiq. As Hasan pointed out, we all know he wasn't good enough but that doesn't mean he shouldn't highlight the institutional racism that is clearly rampant in English cricket.

But you would never understand nor comprehend the ground realities because you're not even based in the UK, which means you could never relate to these issues faced by British Asian cricketers especially as you're from a privileged background in Pakistan.

Last year, you also foolishly decided to target Liverpool's Salah, I say foolishly because you called him out for a diving in a PL game even though every pundit/analyst disputed this to have been the case. When you were being exposed for your ignorance you decided to bring up Salah's religion as the reason for posters being "overly defensive" of him. Again to jog memory, see the relevant thread below:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?270793-Has-Mohamed-Salah-proved-that-he-is-a-world-class-player&p=10599787

You did yourself no favours by doing that because you just came across as someone who was picking on Salah for being Muslim. Perhaps it's the reason why you have been ridiculing Moeen Ali for "playing the race card" and now Azeem Rafiq - and yes I agree Moeen Ali isn't good enough to play for England.

Yes there are plenty of Pakistanis and Muslims who use their race/religion card to their advantage/garner sympathy but I guess it's difficult for a far left wing nutcase like yourself to not paint a certain group of people with the same brush right?

Your hypocrisy and double standards is there for everyone to see and I will conclude by saying that your views epitomise why the far left are just as toxic (and in some cases more dangerous) as those who are far right.

Great post and a good analysis of a poster who screams 'self hate' everytime he posts. It's sad what a colonised mentality and an inferiority complex can do to someone, I genuinely feel sorry for people of his ilk. They hate themselves and their own backgrounds.

 

[TrentDevil]

Scares the hell outta me to even think what he must be going through.

 

[Mamoon]

Mamoon, the reason why you're deflecting is because you've been exposed for your double standards and hypocrisy. We're talking about the treatment of aspiring and professional Pakistanis/Desi/Muslim and non-Muslim cricketers in England and Pakistan (respectively), so I wonder why you're bringing up the issues of minorities in the general population. But how can I forget it's another convenient opportunity for you to come up with your far left rhetoric.

Look, if you want to call it double standards and hypocrisy, feel free to do so. My only job is to explain my position and not to force you to change your perspective of my views.

Sports is a reflection of society. What goes on in cricket circles is not independent of what goes on in the country in general. If Muslims were getting discriminated and attacked all over the UK, it would have been greatly prevalent in cricket as well.

Does racism and discrimination exist in the UK? Yes it does in every country. However, in spite of that, the UK is amongst the most tolerant and open-minded countries in the world. Other countries, including Pakistan, are far more racist. If you don’t want me to drag Pakistan into this, then we can take example of Eastern European countries who are far more racist than the UK.

You are also a British Pakistani, there are hundreds of British Pakistanis on this forum and vast majority of my cousins are British Pakistanis as well.

There is a reason why all of you people are happily settled in England and will make a million excuses if I ask you to come back to Pakistan. The reason is that it is a wonderful place to live and you are not getting discriminated and attacked to the point where you will be forced to think about leaving the country. You are getting your rights and you are also getting working opportunities.

That is true for English cricket as well because as I said, it is nothing but a reflection of the English society. Asian cricketers who have proved that they are good enough have had their opportunities in both County cricket and international cricket.

They have even been given prominence in terms of leadership roles. However, whenever an Asian player is treated unfairly, we immediately play the racism card. That is the prime issue with this matter.

Think about it yourself - does it make any sense for Yorkshire CCC to give him the opportunity to become the youngest ever T20 captain in their history while discriminating against him at the same time?

As for your first sentence, this is something I'd expect from a troll. That respect was no longer warranted when he decided to go into match fixing. I like how you're sympathetic towards Kaneria whereas with Rafiq, your double standard/hypocrisy comes out once again when you said in an earlier post:

"ECB actually let him off easily by fining him for £500 and banning him for a month. He should have been booted out for good because this type of behavior and attitude are not acceptable".

If you're going to talk about someone's behaviour, at least spell the word correctly.

That is why I said “I have a lot of respect for the way Kaneria conducted himself while he was a Pakistan player.”

I obviously don’t respect him now, but during his time as a Pakistan player, he was a model professional.

As far as Rafiq is concerned, he called ECB incompetent and the U-19 coach a “useless w*nker” because he was dropped due to poor performances.

That sums up the type of character he is. Always looking to blame others and finding excuses for his own failures. People like him are always quick to cry about racism because it presents yet another opportunity to blame others for their failures.

Behaviour is how you spell it in British English.

Behavior is how you spell it in American English.

I spelt the word correctly - the problem is with your lack of command on the English language in spite of growing up in England.

I have no problem with you calling Salah a diver because he's been guilty of this on numerous occasions. I even mentioned this myself on that thread corresponding to the topic. The problem here is again you're deflecting from the point I made in my previous post. You called that particular incident a dive when it 100% wasn't. Instead of being the bigger man and accepting your error of judgement, you decided to turn on every Muslim (who were correcting you) by saying "the truth is that people are over-defensive of Salah because of “some” obvious reasons". If you can't accept or comprehend a simple footballing decision, just don't bring religion or someone's beliefs as an escape route.

It was a dive from what I saw. And besides, considering his history, my first inclination is and will be that Salah has dived every time he goes down easily without clear contact, simply because he is a diver and that cannot be denied.

But the problem is that I have the same inclination for the likes of Neymar, Dele Alli, Sterling, Vardy, Zaha, Leroy Sane etc. who are also divers. However, as usual, if I criticize these players for diving then it is not a problem, but as soon as I highlight Salah or Mane, then it becomes an issue of bigotry and bias.

"if an underperforming, Asian player gets dropped, he can play the race card and he will immediately gather sympathy from gullible folks .

If you're aiming this at me, let me remind you once again that you will never be able to relate to these issues nor come to understanding the ground realities, simply because you come from a privileged background in Pakistan. For your information, I was once coached by Aftab Habib, in case you don't know who he is, he played 2 test matches for England. Also, one of my best friends was signed up by Middlessex but chose Medicine over cricket. As you can imagine, I'm relatively well versed with what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to English cricket, so with the greatest of respect stick to your specialities because racism in English cricket isn't one of them!

Once again, racism in sport is a reflection of racism in that country in general. The degree of racism in cricket in particular is unlikely to be much higher than racism in the UK in general.

So if you are living comfortably in the UK and have no intention of coming back of Pakistan because you are getting due rights and work opportunities in the UK, then it clearly shows that life for Asian cricketers in England is unlikely to be much different.

Of course there will be some incidents of isolated racism (like in all countries) but there is a difference between isolated racism and systematic racism.

Rafiq was given all the opportunities when he was a good player and he wasn’t held back because Yorkshire CCC/ECB was racist towards him.

He was England U-19 captain and also the youngest Yorkshire CCC captain. That shouldn’t happen in a racist structure.

The bottom-line is that if an Asian cricket is good enough and performs consistently, he will get opportunities. Nothing will hold him back.

And the successful players rarely whine about racism anyway. Adil Rashid is the most successful Asian player in recent times who also spent 15 years at Yorkshire CCC, but you won’t really see him attack ECB or his club for racism. Why? Because he does not need it. His performance is good enough for him to bypass all the white spinners and cement himself as England’s main spinner in white ball cricket.

 

[Saj]

What happened to Haseeb Hameed, and why was he unceremoniously dropped?

He's at Nottinghamshire now.

 

[Mamoon]

What happened to Haseeb Hameed, and why was he unceremoniously dropped?

He completely lost form in a bizarre way. He basically went from England’s great hope to a tail-ender in a week’s time.

Wait for 10 years after which he will give an interview to the Guardian about how he was on the receiving end of racism and discrimination, and then gullible folks will do bhangra and claim that he lost form because of the prevalent discrimination in English cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

Scares the hell outta me to even think what he must be going through.

What scares the hell out of me is having a player in my system who publicly calls the coach a “useless w*nker” after getting dropped due to poor performances.

ECB was very kind. If I was ECB Chief, this loser wouldn’t have played a single professional game of cricket in England after that.

 

[Saj]

The chairman of the ECB Yorkshire South Premier has called former Yorkshire off-spinner Azeem Rafiq, a very difficult” person in a blog post on the league’s website.

In his blog post, Pugh, a retired civil servant and former league umpire, wrote: “Yesterday, I read that Azeem Rafiq had made allegations of ‘institutional racism’ at Yorkshire CCC. Of course, I am not in a position to comment on these allegations, but that they should come from him does not surprise me.

“I have had contact with Azeem both as an umpire and an administrator, and found him very difficult to deal with – being both discourteous and disrespectful. Indeed, over the five years in which we have been in existence, he is the only person in our league that I have had any issues with. Several of our umpires and one of our clubs also had problems with him in 2016, when he was back with YCCC, and I wrote to the club to draw attention to his behaviour – a step not taken lightly. I am not a religious man, but a biblical quote seems to me apt here. It is, ‘as ye sow, so shall ye reap.’”

 

[Saj]

As The Yorkshire County Cricket Club have previously indicated, it takes the matters aired by Azeem Rafiq very seriously. YCCC have asked the independent law firm, Squire Patton Boggs (Squire) to lead an investigation and review of these matters. Squire has extensive expertise and has begun the work to ensure a thorough investigation and review is conducted.

 

[FreePalestine]

no I am telling you guys to treat them the same way you treat your own people. There is no need for special treatment. They are no better than you in any shape or form. Chnage that mentality of being sycophants to English people and things will change for the better for Pakistan.

I think we have gotten off topic here... unless your argument is that white british people are racist towards brown people because they do not respect themselves and thus deserve it?

It is largely irrelevant because we are talking about Azeem’s case in the UK. South Asians living in the UK do not have the same complexes (yet racism against them still exists, even though they don’t regard themselves as ‘inferior’ in your words?)

It is really simple. Just don’t try to defend racist behaviour.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I think we have gotten off topic here... unless your argument is that white british people are racist towards brown people because they do not respect themselves and thus deserve it?

It is largely irrelevant because we are talking about Azeem’s case in the UK. South Asians living in the UK do not have the same complexes (yet racism against them still exists, even though they don’t regard themselves as ‘inferior’ in your words?)

It is really simple. Just don’t try to defend racist behaviour.

That's not what I meant.

 

[gazza619]

I am not a big fan of my job for very different reasons, it is hard to just leave. People have their reasons like I do.

I know its very hard to leave, but its even harder to continue accepting the abuse for so many years.

I am pretty sure you can find another job if you had the desire and the ambition to.

 

[Major]

I had a chat with Ajmal Shehzad today about Azeem's claims.

Ajmal was a team-mate of Azeem's at Yorkshire and he said he never had any such issues during his time at Yorkshire and never had any problems while he was there.

wow this is interesting than. At first i was with Azeem but after going by the response of other English Pakistani players aswel as the officials of Yorkshire, it seems [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right.

It could be that the race card is being used as The chairman of the ECB Yorkshire South Premie has revealed that Azeem has been a problem before.

This is really pathetic from Azeem if it comes out true

 

[MenInG]

I had a chat with Ajmal Shehzad today about Azeem's claims.

Ajmal was a team-mate of Azeem's at Yorkshire and he said he never had any such issues during his time at Yorkshire and never had any problems while he was there.

So is Azeem Rafique making this bit up?

"In one of my first few games, we were going onto the field and there was me, Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shahzad and Rana Naved and one of the senior players said, 'There's too many of you lot, it's something we need to have a word about.;"

 

[Mamoon]

wow this is interesting than. At first i was with Azeem but after going by the response of other English Pakistani players aswel as the officials of Yorkshire, it seems [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right.

It could be that the race card is being used as The chairman of the ECB Yorkshire South Premie has revealed that Azeem has been a problem before.

This is really pathetic from Azeem if it comes out true

It is always easy to fool gullible people with the race card. Since racism is a reality, people are naturally primed to side with the accuser rather than the accused.

Having said that, Ajmal Shahzad is MCC’s head coach, so he could be looking after his own interests as well by trying to stay clear of this controversy.

Nevertheless, Azeem Rafiq has a documented history of poor behavior and blaming others for his own failures. These type of people are quick to give it but don’t have the heart to take it.

 

[Varun]

In his blog post, Pugh, a retired civil servant and former league umpire, wrote: “Yesterday, I read that Azeem Rafiq had made allegations of ‘institutional racism’ at Yorkshire CCC. Of course, I am not in a position to comment on these allegations, but that they should come from him does not surprise me.

“I have had contact with Azeem both as an umpire and an administrator, and found him very difficult to deal with – being both discourteous and disrespectful. Indeed, over the five years in which we have been in existence, he is the only person in our league that I have had any issues with. Several of our umpires and one of our clubs also had problems with him in 2016, when he was back with YCCC, and I wrote to the club to draw attention to his behaviour – a step not taken lightly. I am not a religious man, but a biblical quote seems to me apt here. It is, ‘as ye sow, so shall ye reap.’”

What's going on?

The story is starting to do a 180 on Azeem.

 

[Markhor]

The chairman of the ECB Yorkshire South Premier has called former Yorkshire off-spinner Azeem Rafiq, a very difficult” person in a blog post on the league’s website.

In his blog post, Pugh, a retired civil servant and former league umpire, wrote: “Yesterday, I read that Azeem Rafiq had made allegations of ‘institutional racism’ at Yorkshire CCC. Of course, I am not in a position to comment on these allegations, but that they should come from him does not surprise me.

“I have had contact with Azeem both as an umpire and an administrator, and found him very difficult to deal with – being both discourteous and disrespectful. Indeed, over the five years in which we have been in existence, he is the only person in our league that I have had any issues with. Several of our umpires and one of our clubs also had problems with him in 2016, when he was back with YCCC, and I wrote to the club to draw attention to his behaviour – a step not taken lightly. I am not a religious man, but a biblical quote seems to me apt here. It is, ‘as ye sow, so shall ye reap.’”

Wow some serious allegations being thrown back and forth. Time for an independent investigation. This official needs to come forward with details re: Rafiq's behaviour and publish this 2016 letter.

Yorkshire CCC were facing losses of up to £2m due to COVID, and now another storm strikes.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Thanks for taking your precious time out to get involved Whether thats by choice or you have been put up to it .. Also thanks for proving a lot of this.. would be very interested to go through your blogs and see if any other individual has had similar things written about them &#55358;&#56596; <a href="https://t.co/78Uw527Jjr">https://t.co/78Uw527Jjr</a></p>— Azeem Rafiq (@AzeemRafiq30) <a href="https://twitter.com/AzeemRafiq30/status/1302158828016984064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Saj]

What's going on?

The story is starting to do a 180 on Azeem.

Or it could be that the other Asian players who were at Yorkshire with Azeem are reluctant to talk, scared to talk, or don't want to upset their current employers or ECB.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Racism exists in Uk and thats not something which is new , 'p**i' has been a derogatory term there for ages now. The slogans of ' go back to your C**try arent new either.

 

[topspin]

Look, if you want to call it double standards and hypocrisy, feel free to do so. My only job is to explain my position and not to force you to change your perspective of my views.

Sports is a reflection of society. What goes on in cricket circles is not independent of what goes on in the country in general. If Muslims were getting discriminated and attacked all over the UK, it would have been greatly prevalent in cricket as well.

Does racism and discrimination exist in the UK? Yes it does in every country. However, in spite of that, the UK is amongst the most tolerant and open-minded countries in the world. Other countries, including Pakistan, are far more racist. If you don’t want me to drag Pakistan into this, then we can take example of Eastern European countries who are far more racist than the UK.

You are also a British Pakistani, there are hundreds of British Pakistanis on this forum and vast majority of my cousins are British Pakistanis as well.

There is a reason why all of you people are happily settled in England and will make a million excuses if I ask you to come back to Pakistan. The reason is that it is a wonderful place to live and you are not getting discriminated and attacked to the point where you will be forced to think about leaving the country. You are getting your rights and you are also getting working opportunities.

That is true for English cricket as well because as I said, it is nothing but a reflection of the English society. Asian cricketers who have proved that they are good enough have had their opportunities in both County cricket and international cricket.

They have even been given prominence in terms of leadership roles. However, whenever an Asian player is treated unfairly, we immediately play the racism card. That is the prime issue with this matter.

Think about it yourself - does it make any sense for Yorkshire CCC to give him the opportunity to become the youngest ever T20 captain in their history while discriminating against him at the same time?



That is why I said “I have a lot of respect for the way Kaneria conducted himself while he was a Pakistan player.”

I obviously don’t respect him now, but during his time as a Pakistan player, he was a model professional.

As far as Rafiq is concerned, he called ECB incompetent and the U-19 coach a “useless w*nker” because he was dropped due to poor performances.

That sums up the type of character he is. Always looking to blame others and finding excuses for his own failures. People like him are always quick to cry about racism because it presents yet another opportunity to blame others for their failures.

Behaviour is how you spell it in British English.

Behavior is how you spell it in American English.

I spelt the word correctly - the problem is with your lack of command on the English language in spite of growing up in England.



It was a dive from what I saw. And besides, considering his history, my first inclination is and will be that Salah has dived every time he goes down easily without clear contact, simply because he is a diver and that cannot be denied.

But the problem is that I have the same inclination for the likes of Neymar, Dele Alli, Sterling, Vardy, Zaha, Leroy Sane etc. who are also divers. However, as usual, if I criticize these players for diving then it is not a problem, but as soon as I highlight Salah or Mane, then it becomes an issue of bigotry and bias.



Once again, racism in sport is a reflection of racism in that country in general. The degree of racism in cricket in particular is unlikely to be much higher than racism in the UK in general.

So if you are living comfortably in the UK and have no intention of coming back of Pakistan because you are getting due rights and work opportunities in the UK, then it clearly shows that life for Asian cricketers in England is unlikely to be much different.

Of course there will be some incidents of isolated racism (like in all countries) but there is a difference between isolated racism and systematic racism.

Rafiq was given all the opportunities when he was a good player and he wasn’t held back because Yorkshire CCC/ECB was racist towards him.

He was England U-19 captain and also the youngest Yorkshire CCC captain. That shouldn’t happen in a racist structure.

The bottom-line is that if an Asian cricket is good enough and performs consistently, he will get opportunities. Nothing will hold him back.

And the successful players rarely whine about racism anyway. Adil Rashid is the most successful Asian player in recent times who also spent 15 years at Yorkshire CCC, but you won’t really see him attack ECB or his club for racism. Why? Because he does not need it. His performance is good enough for him to bypass all the white spinners and cement himself as England’s main spinner in white ball cricket.

You can continue to digress and spin this the way you like but it is blindingly obvious that you have a soft spot and are being extra lenient towards Kaneria, despite the fact he had brought up religious discrimination for a life ban that he actually deserved.

Therefore, it would actually be an understatement for me to call you a hypocrite with double standards because Rafiq’s case in comparison doesn’t even scratch the surface.

Kaneria cited his religion as the reason for not getting the support he needed from the PCB in getting his life ban overturned, even though he had committed the worst transgression connected to the game.

Rafiq on the other hand has clearly mentioned that “My only motivation now is to prevent anyone else feeling the same pain.” You can make of that what you like, but even if this was an unacceptable excuse for losing his Yorkshire contract, you simply don’t have a leg to stand on.


“There is a reason why all of you people are happily settled in England and will make a million excuses if I ask you to come back to Pakistan”.

Again what relevance does this have to the discussion? This is like me asking you: “would you come to England if you’re prepared to give up your illicit wealth behind?”.

If you think Salah went down easily then I would suggest taking a trip to the opticians because the defender had both arms around him. It was a clear-cut penalty. Whilst you might think posters were being “overly defensive”, the reality is you were posting nonsense about a respectable Muslim footballer, who I imagine you dislike for “reasons we all know” (as you would say).

I tell you what I found the most disturbing about your views. Lets cast our minds back to the Afghanistan World Cup game last year. Unfortunately, I’m unable to bring up what you had said because your comments had to be removed by the mods (and rightly so). You didn’t just condone but actually justified the violence that committed towards Pakistan fans from the Afghan fans in line with your far left views. That was indefensible to say the least.

I don’t think I need to add anything else to prove that you have a clear track record of your intolerance towards Muslims, particular those who happen to be Pakistani. I hope a man of your intelligence and knowledge can reflect on this and become a better person.

 

[Zaz]

The chairman of the ECB Yorkshire South Premier has called former Yorkshire off-spinner Azeem Rafiq, a very difficult” person in a blog post on the league’s website.

In his blog post, Pugh, a retired civil servant and former league umpire, wrote: “Yesterday, I read that Azeem Rafiq had made allegations of ‘institutional racism’ at Yorkshire CCC. Of course, I am not in a position to comment on these allegations, but that they should come from him does not surprise me.

“I have had contact with Azeem both as an umpire and an administrator, and found him very difficult to deal with – being both discourteous and disrespectful. Indeed, over the five years in which we have been in existence, he is the only person in our league that I have had any issues with. Several of our umpires and one of our clubs also had problems with him in 2016, when he was back with YCCC, and I wrote to the club to draw attention to his behaviour – a step not taken lightly. I am not a religious man, but a biblical quote seems to me apt here. It is, ‘as ye sow, so shall ye reap.’”

This is a classic way to rubbish claims by throwing dirt at the credibility of the person

Even if its true so what if he was difficult and people had problems with him?

As ye sow so shall ye reap

Does that mean its ok for him to be racially discriminated?

This accusation should be investigated not his character assasinated to rubbish the claims

 

[Robert]

Really disappointed by some of the responses here.

Under the Health and Safety at Work Act, YCCC has a responsibility to do what is reasonably practicable to protect the health of Azeem, including his mental health.

 

[Ami]

Just a request...unless you guys live in UK or have spent some time here...stop trying to sound as though you know how people are affected by racism here.
I dont care if you're a well respected poster here or the new coming of Rudyard Kipling, stop trying to hogwash people's experiences of racism here.
Thank You.

 

[FreePalestine]

That's not what I meant.

I think what I was saying is that phenomenon in Pakistan is a symptom of a culture of white supremacy which is fundamentally unjust and a part of the structural form of racism that links our countries. The racism Azeem alleges he faced may also be a symptom of it. THe pressure that made Moeen Ali not want to play international cricket. The stuff with Panesar and Carberry. The comments from Alex Gale. It all tells you there is something wrong with the system, and it is not the victim’s fault.

 

[FreePalestine]

Don’t really know the truth with Azeem, I am sure it will be twisted this way and that by the media, but it is a problem with English cricket, because English cricket is, by nature, so diverse. Like I said, 25% of amateur game is made up of South Asians. So, you know, it is their culture too! That should be reflected more in the professional game. [MENTION=150610]tyron_woodley[/MENTION]

 

[FreePalestine]

Don’t really know the truth with Azeem, I am sure it will be twisted this way and that by the media, but it is a problem with English cricket, because English cricket is, by nature, so diverse. Like I said, 25% of amateur game is made up of South Asians. So, you know, it is their culture too! That should be reflected more in the professional game. [MENTION=150610]tyron_woodley[/MENTION]

Correction: South Asians make up a 1/3 of the amateur game. So 33%. Also learnt that they contributed 40% of ticket sales to the champions trophy. So they are a big part of the community, and shouldn’t really be treated as outsiders who need to learn how to fit in.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I think what I was saying is that phenomenon in Pakistan is a symptom of a culture of white supremacy which is fundamentally unjust and a part of the structural form of racism that links our countries. The racism Azeem alleges he faced may also be a symptom of it. THe pressure that made Moeen Ali not want to play international cricket. The stuff with Panesar and Carberry. The comments from Alex Gale. It all tells you there is something wrong with the system, and it is not the victim’s fault.

It stems from white supremacy yes but if you actually stop worshipping them and instead treat them like you treat your own people, it would be for the better cause.
Shouldn't have to feel inferior. Lot of people even in india still believe white skin is equated to be beautiful. It's sad but that's the truth. Until they get rid of that mentality they will be ostracized and verbally abused overseas for displaying their inferiority complex.

What I am saying is Pakistanis have no reason to feel infeiror in cricket. Look at the calibre of cricketers pakistan has produced in such a short period of time. As good if not better than English players who actually invested the game.

 

[Shaka81]

Just a request...unless you guys live in UK or have spent some time here...stop trying to sound as though you know how people are affected by racism here.
I dont care if you're a well respected poster here or the new coming of Rudyard Kipling, stop trying to hogwash people's experiences of racism here.
Thank You.

Thank you for this and I completely agree.

It annoys me no end when people who have never lived in the UK start talking about things they've never experienced and even worse when they start mentioning "race cards"!

 

[FreePalestine]

It stems from white supremacy yes but if you actually stop worshipping them and instead treat them like you treat your own people, it would be for the better cause.
Shouldn't have to feel inferior. Lot of people even in india still believe white skin is equated to be beautiful. It's sad but that's the truth. Until they get rid of that mentality they will be ostracized and verbally abused overseas for displaying their inferiority complex.

What I am saying is Pakistanis have no reason to feel infeiror in cricket. Look at the calibre of cricketers pakistan has produced in such a short period of time. As good if not better than English players who actually invested the game.

This sounds very condescending from you, Tyron. It is also a conflation. Like I said, British Asians like Azeem won’t have the same complexes as the poor people in Pakistan.

E.g. I don’t feel inferior to white people, doesn’t mean that I have never experienced racism. Racism doesn’t hapen because one group feels inferior, it usually happens because one group feels superior. So why are you trying to blame the victims?

 

[Varun]

Most Asian cricketers fail big time.

This is quite true. English players are nothing great, but the Asian guys are yet more dismal:

Ravi Bopara
Samit Patel
Kabir Ali
Sajid Mahmood
Moeen Ali
Ajmal Shahzad
Monty Panesar
Vikram Solanki

None of this lot would make the Indian/Pakistani team ever.

Compare that to the South African guys:

Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott
Matthew Prior
Andrew Strauss
Allan Lamb
Robin Smith
Nick Compton

 

[FreePalestine]

we would segregate him too. We are all racists or bigots is what I am trying to say. So stop playing the victim card. Life isn't fair. We have to make people respect us. Earn the respect by performing.

I am not even from india.Born and raised in australia. indian origin. My parents were born in australia too.

Ah so you actually know nothing about England or Pakistan! To be fair, those Aussies make sure they keep their minorities in check, so good of them to have convinced you that it is the Indian-immigrant’s fault if an Aussie is racist to them. They should get over their inferiority complex!

 

[IAJ]

This is quite true. English players are nothing great, but the Asian guys are yet more dismal:

Ravi Bopara
Samit Patel
Kabir Ali
Sajid Mahmood
Moeen Ali
Ajmal Shahzad
Monty Panesar
Vikram Solanki

None of this lot would make the Indian/Pakistani team ever.

Compare that to the South African guys:

Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott
Matthew Prior
Andrew Strauss
Allan Lamb
Robin Smith
Nick Compton

Well some of the SA players were already very good at young age playing in SA. Imagine if Sachin Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni, Saeed Anwar, Wasim Akram etc moved to England during their youth and decided to play for England? Things are not that one-sided as you try to claim.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Ah so you actually know nothing about England or Pakistan! To be fair, those Aussies make sure they keep their minorities in check, so good of them to have convinced you that it is the Indian-immigrant’s fault if an Aussie is racist to them. They should get over their inferiority complex!

I have had no personal issues from my experience they seem fine. I don't have an iota of inferiority complex in my vein especially not towards a convict of all people or a sum from Britain rofl.

 

[MenInG]

The chairman of the ECB Yorkshire South Premier has called former Yorkshire off-spinner Azeem Rafiq, a very difficult” person in a blog post on the league’s website.

In his blog post, Pugh, a retired civil servant and former league umpire, wrote: “Yesterday, I read that Azeem Rafiq had made allegations of ‘institutional racism’ at Yorkshire CCC. Of course, I am not in a position to comment on these allegations, but that they should come from him does not surprise me.

“I have had contact with Azeem both as an umpire and an administrator, and found him very difficult to deal with – being both discourteous and disrespectful. Indeed, over the five years in which we have been in existence, he is the only person in our league that I have had any issues with. Several of our umpires and one of our clubs also had problems with him in 2016, when he was back with YCCC, and I wrote to the club to draw attention to his behaviour – a step not taken lightly. I am not a religious man, but a biblical quote seems to me apt here. It is, ‘as ye sow, so shall ye reap.’”

So it seems that Roger Pugh's paragraph on Azeem Rafiq has now been removed from his published blog.

Looks like a lot happening behind the scenes.

 

[FreePalestine]

I have had no personal issues from my experience they seem fine. I don't have an iota of inferiority complex in my vein especially not towards a convict of all people or a sum from Britain rofl.

Actually, it was a joke presenting the fallacy in your argument that people are racist towards others because that other has an inferiority complex!

 

[Zaz]

So it seems that Roger Pugh's paragraph on Azeem Rafiq has now been removed from his published blog.

Looks like a lot happening behind the scenes.

As expected He was implying that rafiqs allegations are due to his poor behaviour and that he deserved it

An awful comment considering the situation and further puts yorkshire cc in bad light

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

his own country people are racists though? so why make a scene?

I am not saying he should be treated that way but there is nothing we can do apart from educating people regarding racism.

He cries racism only because he isn't good enough to get picked.

Back in my day we didn't have the option of crying racism, the only way to shut a racist up was to delivery a hefty smack to the jaw. That usually did the job.

 

[sharmaji]

Sad stuff, if true. No one should be subjected to racist abuse. They should investigate this thoroughly and support Rafiq (financially, at least) if his allegations were found to be true.

 

[the Great Khan]

I know exactly what he is going through.I work in a very prestigious company. I can relate to what he is saying. I am going through something similar right at this very minute.