[VIDEO] Hina Rabbani Khar v Shashi Tharoor debate

[PakLFC]

A good debate between on the current Pak-Bharat situation between Hina and Shashi. Both make valid points but in my opinion Hina did overall have the better off it. Shashi was unable to answer many accusations in particular the situation in IoK, terrorist Kulbushan and India always blaming Pak for everything.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I usually don't mind Shashi Tharoor but this interview was probably not his best. What Hina Rabbani said at the very end was spot on, that he chose to blame all of India's problems on Pakistan. I've seen many Indians do this, but expected better from someone of Tharoor's stature. It came across as pitiful.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Wow, I think I'm falling in love with Khar. She made Shashi, who is academically very bright with good oratory skills look quite silly.

I had a lot of respect for Tharoor but he lost some credibilty when he insinuatingly blamed Pakistan for communal violence against Muslims and Christians in India. Very silly statement. Just goes to show that even the brightest and best minds of India have to resort to disingenuous arguments and statements when interviewed with Pakistanis.

 

[Markhor]

Enjoyed that debate. I agree with the suggestion that there should be increased trading relations, people to people contact, revival of cultural and sporting ties to help bring about a more conciliatory environment from which peace talks can occur.

 

[shaz619]

Enjoyed that debate. I agree with the suggestion that there should be increased trading relations, people to people contact, revival of cultural and sporting ties to help bring about a more conciliatory environment from which peace talks can occur.

There's more chance of Adil Rashid pitching the ball on a good length 6 times in an over mate.

 

[Hornbill]

Was it really a debate ?. It was just a discussion. Hina's answer regarding the effort taken by pakistan civilian government to improve the bilateral relations whenever india were ready for peace talks wasn't even satisfactory. Bringing India's internal issues like beef lynching were neeedless. Tharoor didn't even bothered to mention atrocities committed against minorities in pakistan like weekly target killings, religious persecution of hindus which forces thousands to migrate to india every year to score points.

 

[Slog]

Tharoor looked a bit silly at times and didnt do his homework.

Impressed with Khar

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Yeah, he wasn't prepared, he's uttered the same lines before elsewhere but Khar showed him up a bit. It's sad to see.

 

[Hornbill]

Enjoyed that debate. I agree with the suggestion that there should be increased trading relations, people to people contact, revival of cultural and sporting ties to help bring about a more conciliatory environment from which peace talks can occur.

What's the purpose of these confidence building measures which are eventually going to destroyed by forces who are against it.

 

[PakLFC]

The Hina gal owned Shashi good and well. She only bought up the Muslim situation in India when Shashi blamed Pak for everything in IoK. Neither did she claim that Pak was a heaven for non Muslim's unlike most Indian people like Shashi who seem to think their country is for non Hindu's. I agree with the above poster that there is no point in talking with them.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

What's the purpose of these confidence building measures which are eventually going to destroyed by forces who are against it.

I think that's what she was referring to. She said Pakistan has made their mind up about encouraging violent struggle in Kashmir, it's not worked. That it's had its worst days with terrorism and militants and has effectively turned the corner. India, on the other hand....IT'S PAKISTAN'S FAULT!

 

[Hornbill]

I think that's what she was referring to. She said Pakistan has made their mind up about encouraging violent struggle in Kashmir, it's not worked. That it's had its worst days with terrorism and militants and has effectively turned the corner. India, on the other hand....IT'S PAKISTAN'S FAULT!

Still terror camps are active across the other side of the LOC. This is the major reason behind ceasefire violations happening there and not across international border. I don't think I need to tell you about details of Pakistani terrorists neutralised in Kashmir during past few months. Yesterday one of them were killed and after many years JK police asked Pakistan high commission to take his body.

 

[IAJ]

I started watching it yesterday but somehow didn't get time to complete it, will make another try today.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Still terror camps are active across the other side of the LOC. This is the major reason behind ceasefire violations happening there and not across international border. I don't think I need to tell you about details of Pakistani terrorists neutralised in Kashmir during past few months. Yesterday one of them were killed and after many years JK police asked Pakistan high commission to take his body.

I don't agree with your labelling of the Kashmiri resistance/insurgency as terrorism. Terrorism has many definitions and I've explained in a few threads why it's merely a politicised term to discredit opponents. Its use became widespread ever since Western MSM used it for their own government-sponsored narratives and many other nations have since used it to undermine their enemies' cause.

The Israelis also tried to conflate terrorism against civilians in the West and elsewhere with their own occupation. Neither are the Palestinians or Kashmiris terrorist. Although there may be a few small incidents involving Palestinians that can be classified as terrorism but that is a small sample and if not justified, then understandable. It's a very subjective term. The Afghan resistance against the Soviets were termed 'Mujahedeen' and later became terrorists. Mandela was first a terrorist then later a freedom fighter. You're free to use it as you wish but don't expect to be taken seriously.

I think Khar and others have taken a major step in saying that encouraging violent resistance in Kashmir is not the way forward and saying policy has changed. She also said the effects of the policy will be realised "later". I now know what she meant by this:

Abu Dujana is the guy you were referring to who is allegedly from Pakistan. Reports mention around 250 "terrorists" in the valley and only one or two names have been mentioned as being from Pakistan. This Dujana has been there for many years as had Lone according to Indian sources. So it's still consistent with Khar's comments.

Ceasefire violations on LOC are different from resistance fighters operating in Kashmir. It's also very hard to tell why those LOC violations occur because both Indian and Pakistan accuse the other of initiating the attacks.

All in all Khar is saying you'll come to realise the effect of government policy down the line.

 

[Hornbill]

Security forces released the list of the most wanted 12 terrorists, two of them are from Pakistan, at least 3 or 4 pakistan based terrorists were eliminated in this year so far. According to a recent verification report on the presence of foreign terrorists in North Kashmir, 102 are with Lashkar: 12 in Bandipore, 6 in Baramulla, 9 in Sopore, 37 in Kupwara and 38 in Handwara. Similarly, Jaish has 16 foreigners: one in Bandipore, three in Baramulla, 7 in Sopore and 5 in Kupwara.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-militants-witness-to-deadly-strikes-4680146/

If both Indian and Pakistan armies can maintain peace along International border it's not difficult for them to do it on LOC. It's clear that there are forces which don't like it happening and they are focused on disrupting peaceful relation between both countries.

 

[Hornbill]

From the above source
According to J&K Police records, the number of militants active in South Kashmir is 112, of whom 99 are local. The number of militants active across North Kashmir is 141 — 118 are foreign and 23 local.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Security forces released the list of the most wanted 12 terrorists, two of them are from Pakistan, at least 3 or 4 pakistan based terrorists were eliminated in this year so far. According to a recent verification report on the presence of foreign terrorists in North Kashmir, 102 are with Lashkar: 12 in Bandipore, 6 in Baramulla, 9 in Sopore, 37 in Kupwara and 38 in Handwara. Similarly, Jaish has 16 foreigners: one in Bandipore, three in Baramulla, 7 in Sopore and 5 in Kupwara.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-militants-witness-to-deadly-strikes-4680146/

If both Indian and Pakistan armies can maintain peace along International border it's not difficult for them to do it on LOC. It's clear that there are forces which don't like it happening and they are focused on disrupting peaceful relation between both countries.

You can call them terrorists all you want. It'd help if you read the article, it refers to them as militants, the aritlce obviously wants to uphold its integrity. The LOC is on disputed territory and human rights groups have recorded more abuses(including rapes and extra-judicial killings by BSF) in that region compared with the international border. We don't know who instigates these attacks but blaming them all on Pakistan is puerile, naive and downright stupid. Even moreso when you realise when, how and why the resistance became violent.

Going by the article, whose numbers seem exaggerated, it's still a very small number of militants operating. The militancy began in the late 80s due to the entering of Indian armed forces in the region. There's been a disproportionate response not only through civilian loss of life and rape allegations against the Indian army but the increased military presence too. Something doesn't add up, and when the maths isn't right, it's easy to blame Pakistan

 

[Hornbill]

Nobody even claims the bodies of terrorists who gets killed when trying to cross loc, In this year itself numbers reached above 40. Don't know how many managed to cross loc successfully.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Nobody even claims the bodies of terrorists who gets killed when trying to cross loc, In this year itself numbers reached above 40. Don't know how many managed to cross loc successfully.

What do you even mean by that? That number is still minute amongst the presence of over half a million Indian soldiers. According to government figures of militants since the 90s out of 24000 only 3000 were foreign. Pakistan's involvement in the violence has beeen minimal compared to India's.

And it'd help if you quote or mention me when responding, that way I can respond to your Indian-sourced articles much quicker.

 

[PakLFC]

Problem is that deep inside their conscience many if not most Indian people think they own the entire subcontinent by default. Until they let go of tthis attitude respecting that Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh even Nepal have a right to exist there will be no peace in the sub continent. This "akhand Bharat" crap by many of them is evidence of this where they believe that all the aforementioned countries must become part of India.

 

[English August]

Those commenting here, did they watch the same video clip that I did? In the one I watched, Khar was either openly lying (on the topic of trade between India and Pak, facts is that India gave MFN status to Pak decades ago; Pak hasn't returned the courtesy even now -- so much for moving on on trade!) or was being disingenuous when she suggested that Pak openly supporting terrorist activity is thing of the past. The last time I checked, Hafeez Saeed was still out and about, openly protected by ISI and close to getting nominated for Nobel peace prize by Pak (and their lords and masters China).

I'm not fan of Tharoor (he's a Congressman after all, and tends to act like Sonia's little poodle), but he was urbane, polished, articulate and well-informed. Khar was ill-informed and lying.

 

[PakLFC]

Those commenting here, did they watch the same video clip that I did? In the one I watched, Khar was either openly lying (on the topic of trade between India and Pak, facts is that India gave MFN status to Pak decades ago; Pak hasn't returned the courtesy even now -- so much for moving on on trade!) or was being disingenuous when she suggested that Pak openly supporting terrorist activity is thing of the past. The last time I checked, Hafeez Saeed was still out and about, openly protected by ISI and close to getting nominated for Nobel peace prize by Pak (and their lords and masters China).

I'm not fan of Tharoor (he's a Congressman after all, and tends to act like Sonia's little poodle), but he was urbane, polished, articulate and well-informed. Khar was ill-informed and lying.

Well informed? That is why Hina left him speechless in the end, Shashi was also unable to refute or say anything about terrorist Kulbushan as he had no leg to stand on. Well Pak will do what is best for it not India. We allow your movies in Pak where as you do not reciprocate by showing any Pak channels in India so who is the hypocrite? What have you done about the Samjhauta Express carnage where so many innocent Pakistanis were killed? We have told you before then Hafiz was found innocent in a Pak court, we will not punish him to please you!

 

[English August]

Well informed? That is why Hina left him speechless in the end, Shashi was also unable to refute or say anything about terrorist Kulbushan as he had no leg to stand on. Well Pak will do what is best for it not India. We allow your movies in Pak where as you do not reciprocate by showing any Pak channels in India so who is the hypocrite? What have you done about the Samjhauta Express carnage where so many innocent Pakistanis were killed? We have told you before then Hafiz was found innocent in a Pak court, we will not punish him to please you!

Trade: Thank you for completely ignoring my point on MFN status. Khar was caught lying in the interview and even you're unable to defend her.

Movies: why should I care? Perhaps Pak movies are terrible, so no one in India wants to watch them? I can't help it if the whole of Pak wants to watch Bollywood stuff all day long (heck they do it even when Pak govt bans them via illegal prints!). Indian stuff is superior, so it sells. Now even your lords and masters, the Chinese, are developing a taste for Indian movies. I hear Dangal was a runaway hit over there and made millions.

Samjhauta Express: What about it? You expect sympathy in India when Pak-trained terrorists are killing innocent civilians in J&K everyday? Your lot even went to the extent of defending the killings of innocent pilgrims. And you (and Khar) really want the world to believe that you've moved on from using terrorism as an instrument of state policy?

Hafiz Saeed: thank you for proving my point! So you're now defending this guy? Good. And totally expected from those who treated OBL like an honored state guest and are seen defending Azhar Masood, Salahuddin and Dawood Ibrahim. Well done defending your brand and your national heroes.

This thread was about the TV debate between Khar and Tharoor. Khar was caught lying in her terrible accent (and you defending her) and Tharoor came across as reasonable and articulate.

 

[Romali_rotti]

It was a good interview, Khar showed maturity, was hospitable however a little biased towards her point of view which was understandable. I felt Tharoor was a little too attacking, could have been more accommodating, however the guy is right, I mean Pakistan housed/houses Bin Laden, Hafiz Saeed and company etc so the terrorism angle was accurate...

 

[Romali_rotti]

I liked how Tharoor counteracted Khar with the 150,000 Kashmiri Pundits being driven out of their native land was the reason why the Indian Army to be brought to Kashmir which not many Pakistan or separatist will ever mention..

 

[Thomaskutty]

As is the case with most of Tharoor's debate opponents , Hina was left speechless and all at sea by the end of the interview.
Btw it was amusing how the chyron popped up midway through the segment and stated that the interview was recorded just before Nawaz's resignation. Everything Shashi was describing about civil-military relations in Pak was basically happening in real time !

 

[PakLFC]

Trade: Thank you for completely ignoring my point on MFN status. Khar was caught lying in the interview and even you're unable to defend her.

Movies: why should I care? Perhaps Pak movies are terrible, so no one in India wants to watch them? I can't help it if the whole of Pak wants to watch Bollywood stuff all day long (heck they do it even when Pak govt bans them via illegal prints!). Indian stuff is superior, so it sells. Now even your lords and masters, the Chinese, are developing a taste for Indian movies. I hear Dangal was a runaway hit over there and made millions.

Samjhauta Express: What about it? You expect sympathy in India when Pak-trained terrorists are killing innocent civilians in J&K everyday? Your lot even went to the extent of defending the killings of innocent pilgrims. And you (and Khar) really want the world to believe that you've moved on from using terrorism as an instrument of state policy?

Hafiz Saeed: thank you for proving my point! So you're now defending this guy? Good. And totally expected from those who treated OBL like an honored state guest and are seen defending Azhar Masood, Salahuddin and Dawood Ibrahim. Well done defending your brand and your national heroes.

This thread was about the TV debate between Khar and Tharoor. Khar was caught lying in her terrible accent (and you defending her) and Tharoor came across as reasonable and articulate.

There is no need for us to give you MFN status with so many outstanding issues between us. No need to behave like hypocrites at all. Unlike us if you don't allow Pak movies in India then why should we reciprocate giving you MFN status? Please!!! Now you are surely having a laugh thinking the Chinese have become Bollywood fans after possibly watching one movie I can tell you that in the 1970's there was a Pak movie called "Aaina" which was a massive success in China. So what? Big deal!

So if Pak is responsible for the happenings in IoK then you are no angel's either responsible for killing so many in Baluchistan, FATA and sending terrorists like Yadav and Sarbjit who has rightfully been taken care off. You will soon be making another movies on Yadav when he is hanged as well. Insha Allah.

Your obsession with Hafiz will not get you anywhere other then making flops like "Phantom". I said he is not a terrorist and we will not punish him just to please you, is that clear enough for you? You see terrorists everywhere other then your own who cause trouble in other countries as admitted by many of your own generals. Well that is the way it is so deal with it! Similarly don't expect crocodile tears from people like me when you kill Pakistanis then are paid back with the same coin. I guess now China is also wrong in also telling you to mind your own business? They are our allies not masters like Israel is yours.

What do you mean "Khar was caught lying in her terrible accent"? . Shashi got owned good and well especially with Hina's parting comment. Next time send Shashi Kapoor instead who would do a better job then Tharoor!

 

[PakLFC]

Tharoor had no answer when confronted with difficult questions. He ignored when challenged with Chuck Hagel's comments of Indian terrorism in Pakistan. With a very irritating smile on his face at all times he needs proper education on who the terrorists are, his own country. They have been sitting in Afghanistan causing terrorism in Pakistan for almost 20 years. Keeping this in mind we should also use the current China-India-Bhutan tension to our advantage. Pakistan needs to get involved in this as well.

 

[Varun]

There is no need for us to give you MFN status with so many outstanding issues between us. No need to behave like hypocrites at all. Unlike us if you don't allow Pak movies in India then why should we reciprocate giving you MFN status? Please!!!

Without being drawn into this 1947-era slugfest, I'd just like to point out that Pakistan should attempt to give India MFN status because India has done the same, and not on the basis of some unknown Pakistani movies being available or unavailable to the Indian market.

 

[English August]

Without being drawn into this 1947-era slugfest, I'd just like to point out that Pakistan should attempt to give India MFN status because India has done the same, and not on the basis of some unknown Pakistani movies being available or unavailable to the Indian market.

Well, there are two points this guy PakLFC refuses to understand.

One, as you pointed out, there is no connection between movies and MFN status. Pakistani people love Indian movies, Indians don't like Pak stuff. What can anyone do about it?! Indian economy is 8-9 times bigger than Pak's and India doesn't *need* MFN status from Pak. It's only symbolic, but speaks volume about intentions. Basically Pak is scared about the Indian traders running amok in the Pakistani mandis.

Secondly, Ms. Khar is openly lying about the above in her interview. She said trade issues have been sorted out between India and Pak. But they haven't. Just one of the many lies / falsehoods she peddled during this interview.

 

[English August]

There is no need for us to give you MFN status with so many outstanding issues between us. No need to behave like hypocrites at all. Unlike us if you don't allow Pak movies in India then why should we reciprocate giving you MFN status? Please!!! Now you are surely having a laugh thinking the Chinese have become Bollywood fans after possibly watching one movie I can tell you that in the 1970's there was a Pak movie called "Aaina" which was a massive success in China. So what? Big deal!

So if Pak is responsible for the happenings in IoK then you are no angel's either responsible for killing so many in Baluchistan, FATA and sending terrorists like Yadav and Sarbjit who has rightfully been taken care off. You will soon be making another movies on Yadav when he is hanged as well. Insha Allah.

Your obsession with Hafiz will not get you anywhere other then making flops like "Phantom". I said he is not a terrorist and we will not punish him just to please you, is that clear enough for you? You see terrorists everywhere other then your own who cause trouble in other countries as admitted by many of your own generals. Well that is the way it is so deal with it! Similarly don't expect crocodile tears from people like me when you kill Pakistanis then are paid back with the same coin. I guess now China is also wrong in also telling you to mind your own business? They are our allies not masters like Israel is yours.

What do you mean "Khar was caught lying in her terrible accent"? . Shashi got owned good and well especially with Hina's parting comment. Next time send Shashi Kapoor instead who would do a better job then Tharoor!

Classic diversion. You brought up movies, I didn't. Now you're crying when I am pointing out how Bollywood dominates Lollywood and is making an impression even with your lords and masters.

And thank you for acknowledging that Saeed (along with his cohorts like OBL, Azhar Masood et. al.) are your national heroes. Ms. Khar said in the interview that Pak has moved past the strategy of using terrorism as an instrument of state policy. You are acknowledging that you haven't, and that you still hero-worship Saeed and his ilk. So Ms. Khar was caught lying again.

 

[PakLFC]

Classic diversion. You brought up movies, I didn't. Now you're crying when I am pointing out how Bollywood dominates Lollywood and is making an impression even with your lords and masters.

And thank you for acknowledging that Saeed (along with his cohorts like OBL, Azhar Masood et. al.) are your national heroes. Ms. Khar said in the interview that Pak has moved past the strategy of using terrorism as an instrument of state policy. You are acknowledging that you haven't, and that you still hero-worship Saeed and his ilk. So Ms. Khar was caught lying again.

So what if I bought up movies, up to me! Did I say Lollywood is dominating Bollywood in any previous mail? It you who is begging and crying for MFN status. Acknowledging what? That Hafiz is innocent, yeah you areright here boy! Why are you and Shashi silent on Indian terrorism in Pak and on Kulbushan, Samjhauta Express and your terrorism in Baluchistan and FATA that has been well exposed?? Even many of your own Indian general's have admitted it as to has Ajit Doval. Well if Pak pays you back then that is exactly what you deserve, hard luck! What you fail to accept is that you are not our "most favoured nation" at all so why should we give you that privilege? We did not ask you to give is that status if you have done, okay? You are free to take it back if you have given it to us. Now we know you are up sweating over CPEC and crying all about it every day on your channels, well it's gonna happen so try stopping it. If your products are selling in Pak then I blame Nawaz Sharif and his government for that more then your third rate and crap products. Now what are you gonna do about Indian terrorism in Pakistan that is what I want to know? If nothing then don't cry when we hit you back with the same.

 

[Abdullah719]

Keep the discussion limited to the issues rather than pointless rubbish about accents and looks. Thanks.