What's new

[VIDEO] How far China and Pakistan go in their support of each other

IAJ

T20I Star
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Runs
32,615
Post of the Week
1
Very interesting analysis by Imran.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mAfYr5Rg_-8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
He got corona too, along with two family members. May Allah grant them shiffa Ameen
 
He got corona too, along with two family members. May Allah grant them shiffa Ameen

Ameen.

Seems like a genuine journalist who has done some homework. The point he makes about how Pakistan and China together can achieve thir respective goals is very interesting.
 
whilst his points make sense theoretically, in reality you have to understand what motivation does China currently have to help pakistan liberate the valley or ladakh.

china needs a connection to pakistan, it has that, there is literally zero fundamental threat to GB or AK from India at the moment.

secondly China doesn't rely on the waterways that Pakistan does, so in this regards who controls those areas is not too important to China.

finally and most importantly, aggression is usually a sign of insecurity, india did it to pak most recently to divert attention from its own internal issues, China at the moment has no real insecurity from India, the only commonality between the countries is their population, its like the USA and Brazil.

China will only ever antagonise India to obtain political or economic gains, i don't think it wants any of indias land at the moment.

and after all this we come to the most important point, any action to destabilise india internally will not be cheap, war, either convential, guerilla or proxy is expensive, and when it comes to resources india will outlast Pakistan in any respect.

and as far as international arbitration goes, Pakistan is important, but no where near important enough to have unanimous global political pressure on india to let go of kashmir.

so whilst some of his points are theoretically on point, in reality its extremely unlikely any of it will work.
 
Speaking of realistic interpretations of the latest kerfuffle, I've been following Ejaz Haider. He has a keen interest in Kashmir, being from AJK himself and from a family that participated (and lost members) in the Poonch uprising that liberated AJK, and while his visceral hatred for the Humsaaya Mulk is commendable (mashaallah), he manages to remain unsentimental in his analysis.

His latest:

Eastern Ladakh and India’s Loss of Face

The standoff between the People’s Liberation Army and Indian Army troops in Eastern Ladakh is now out in the open. Let’s consider some facts before we move on from here.

First and foremost, the tension that began on May 5/6 and which went underreported for the first two weeks has now been acknowledged by the highest levels of Indian government. The Chinese government, while downplaying it, has also issued statements through its Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson.

Second, the recent episode began with skirmishes between soldiers on both sides in which several Indian troops, including some officers, were injured. Indians allege that their troops were assaulted by PLA soldiers with batons. Reports also suggest the PLA troops captured two Indian soldiers from a patrol party but were later released.

Third, the standoff involves five key nodes, moving south to north from Demchok to Pangong Tso (a high-altitude lake), Gogra Post, Galwan River basin and the northern-most point (quiet so far), Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), also known in Indian military maps as sub-sector north. DBO is about 8 km south of Karakoram Pass.

Four, since 2000, India has been constructing a road which connects Leh to Durbuk, Shyok and goes right up to DBO. However, in 2011 it was found that there was a problem with the alignment of the DSDBO Road and work had to be initiated to realign it. Most of it was completed in 2019. The Road runs fairly close to the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

Five, while the border between China and Indian occupied Ladakh is unmarked with both sides making claims on the basis of their own maps, there is a general understanding of the line. The problem lies in both sides also having their claim lines. While India’s claim line tries to push eastward, China’s claim line, predictably, tries to push westward. This is done through patrolling and there are times when patrols come across each other. There has been more frequent jostling since a 2017 episode.

Six, some WhatsApp analyses in Pakistan are weaving a tapestry, using the standoff, to argue that Chinese have done this because India was planning to invade Gilgit-Baltistan and cut off the CPEC route. These analyses assign to Gwadar a significance that has nothing to do with Gwadar’s capacity or that of the road link with China and lack understanding of the fact that the sea-lanes of communication are a much better and faster option for freight to western and southern China. They also lack military-operational understanding of the resources India would require to cut off the Karakoram Highway. The best way to deal with such analyses is to use the delete option.

Seven, reports suggest that PLA troops have pushed west of their claim line, using patrol boats in the Pangong Lake and troops in the area where the Galwan Valley mouth links up with Shyok River. This second node is important, because if the report about Chinese presence and consolidation is correct, then they can dominate the DSDBO Road through artillery fire. Reports also suggest the presence of Chinese armour and Infantry Fighting Vehicles as well as aerial activity by Chinese fighter jets. Reason: DBO has an air landing strip used by Indian Air Force for C-130 landings. This landing ground is crucial for the Indian Army for fast deployment of equipment and troops in the area. One of the reasons for the DSDBO Road is to access the landing ground as it is otherwise difficult to approach from the west. The DSDBO Road itself is strategically important for Indian Army deployments and reinforcements in the event of a conflict.

Eight, China has been observing the inauguration of an all-weather bridge at 15,000 feet by India. The bridge and the DSDBO Road cut travel time for troops from two days to six hours. Troops also no longer have to ford the river. The bridge can also take heavy equipment and vehicles.

Ninth, India has been trying to improve infrastructure because its defences along the LAC, unlike at the Line of Control, do not physically dominate the line. The approaches are covered by forward Indo-Tibetan Border Police posts and also through patrolling. The patrolling points are also a matter of dispute.

But all this is geography and tactics. This activity has been going on for long. There have also been skirmishes, as happened in 2017 at one of the fingers area along Pangong Tso when PLA troops clashed with ITBP troops. Why have the Chinese decided to push westward of their claim line now.

One possible reason is India’s annexation of Ladakh as Union Territory. This changes the nature of the dispute. Second, the present Indian government has undertaken several infrastructure projects along the LAC both in the western and eastern sectors. This activity is an essential part of India’s decision to raise a mountain strike corps, XVII Corps, dedicated against China. The corps was raised on 1st January 2014. As per Indian reports, it is supposed to have integral air assets (attack and transport helicopters, UAVs), an armoured regiment, an artillery regiment with light, transportable howitzers and a component of Special Forces. India already has three strike corps, 1, 2, 21, which are operationally configured against Pakistan. Third, China is closely observing US-India relations and India’s strategic partnership with the US.

Fourth, and possibly most importantly — this links up with India’s annexation of Ladakh — China is deeply concerned about India’s issuance of new maps. This would in fact be in line with what happened in the run-up to the month-long conflict in 1962. This is what Iftikhar Gilani, an eminent Kashmiri journalist, wrote for Anadolu Agency on May 29:

“India believes that it all [the 1962 conflict] began with the Chinese onslaught on their forward posts. But over time, new material made public [has] suggested that it was India’s flirtation with maps and claiming territory, which even British had not marked, [which] led to the war and tension in the region. It [is] precisely [for] these reasons that even after five decades, India has not released [the] Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report [which] documented the factors that led to the war…Wajahat Habibullah, the only civilian… who has seen this report [told this scribe that] contradictory maps presented by India in the 1950s and 1960-61 had led to the war.”

Habibullah also told Gilani that “I still believe the report should not be declassified. From 1962, the deployment of our armed forces has not substantially changed in these areas. So, declassifying [it] will lead to supplying the Chinese with defence information. Moreover, the report on the role of the Indian army is so scathing that it would have a demoralising effect on the forces even now.”

Fifth, given the overall tenor of relations and India’s general belligerence, China seems to have undertaken this push as a signalling exercise. Contrary to what the aforementioned WhatsApp analyses argue, this is a minor move on the broader Chinese chessboard. Nonetheless, its significance lies in how India will react to it. Will India fight it out or lump it? Both options are risky for New Delhi. In other words, China wants to test India through this tactical *****.

India’s response so far has been to (a) initially remain mute and play it down; and, (b) invoke the mechanism for working out the LAC disputes. There has already been a military-to-military meeting on June 2 and another is scheduled for June 6 (tomorrow). The first did not succeed in breaking the impasse. The issue has also gone to the diplomatic level. The third and the highest level is contact between Narendra Modi and Xi Jinping.

For now, the PLA troops are consolidating positions in the Galwan sector (where they have secured the heights), in Pangong Tso where they have secured the area between Finger 4 and 8 and in Gogra where the Indian post is surrounded. PLA troops are also linking up with their logistics infrastructure in the rear. India, if it opts to fight, will have to bring in troops. That activity will be monitored by China. The Indian defence minister, Rajnath Singh, while telling the media that the army is prepared to defend Indian territory has, nevertheless, been keen to point out that “the alignment of the LAC, and therefore the ownership of territory, is unclear in this area.”

It will be interesting to watch how the situation unfolds. It will also be interesting to see what kind of quid pro quo Beijing might demand if it decides to pull the PLA troops back to its claim line.

https://www.thefridaytimes.com/eastern-ladakh-and-indias-loss-of-face/
 
More from EH:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Indian Army's lifeline, the DSDBO Road, is now vulnerable from those positions. the PLA can interdict any supplies/reinforcements from Daulat Beg Oldie to different IA positions down south. THAT is the real point. the rest is feint for bargaining.></p>— EH (@ejazhaider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1269328201131732999?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">IA's dilemma is to either fight it out or lump it. if it takes the latter course, its strategic road remains vulnerable. at the higher level that means PLA (China) has successfully tested IA & found them wanting. if, however, IA goes for a fight, it will be interesting to watch!</p>— EH (@ejazhaider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1269329404712439808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
It is important to understand that the relationship between China and Pakistan is not give and take. They are our masters and we dance to their tunes.

However, the problem is that we have more than one master and our multiple masters do not like each other, so we spend a lot of effort in ensuring that we keep them happy at the same which we often achieving by tricking them.

Not that they don’t know that we are tricking them, but they also need us for their designs so they let it slide.

This is a life that we choose for us when we decided that we would be mercenaries.
 
interesting article in the Times today where the author made the case that China's menacing stance towards India was as a warning for India not to join in USA's attempts to rally the world against China. America sees China as a threat to it's world domination, and is seeking allies to bring them down.

Modi's dealings with China are analysed as a fail, economically and politically. His attempts to woo China were driven by fear of a two pronged war where China would be allied with Pakistan, but China has continued it's military build up regardless of Modi's efforts. Seems the Chinese also regard words coming from the Indian PM as 'muuh pe ram ram'.
 
The journalist in the OP may have his sources regarding the Chinese suggestion in 1962 for us to attack the Humsaaya Mulk positions when the Chinese did so, but I’m not sure if any evidence about such an approach exists.

There is mention in Qudratullah Shahab’s autobiography that when he was Ayub Khan’s Principal Private Secretary, he was awoken one night by a senior staffer from the Chinese embassy who wanted him to relay this suggestion to Ayub. Shahab claims he drove to the Preisdency, roused Ayub from his slumber, and passed on the message, only for it to be roundly dismissed.

The trouble is, Shahab’s book is notorious for stretching the truth, so this claim too should be taken with a grain of salt. That said, if true, it would be another case of us never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
 
Petroleum minister seeks to strengthen energy partnerships with Chinese companies

Minister for Petroleum Dr Musadik Malik on Saturday led a delegation of Pakistani energy companies to the eighth Silk Route Expo in China, aiming to strengthen energy partnerships with Chinese counterparts and foster collaboration in the sector.

According to a statement from the petroleum ministry, Dr Malik laid down Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif’s vision during the discussion forum, assuring Chinese companies of full support in partnering with Pakistani firms for joint ventures, whether individually or through consortiums.

According to reports, Pakistan’s current domestic oil and gas production stood at 70,998 barrels and 3,131 million standard cubic feet per day (MMSCFD), respectively.

While PM Shehbaz had emphasised exploring new oil and gas reserves as a “top priority”, highlighting that during the next three years, around 240 potential reserve sites would be excavated with an investment of $5bn to explore petroleum and gas.

During the meeting, key areas of partnership including oil and gas exploration, refinery upgrades, coal conversion, and regasification were discussed.

Furthermore, the minister stated that Pakistan had one of the largest coal reserves and the government was committed to creating value from its natural resources “while protecting the environment”.

He also highlighted the country’s focus on producing fertilisers using coal-based energy.

“Moreover, the production of green and blue hydrogen, as well as ammonia, is under consideration. We will become technology partners and joint venture partners,” Dr Musadik Malik remarked.

Chinese companies also engaged in business-to-business meetings with their Pakistani counterparts, exchanging opportunities and plans for collaboration.

During a series of roundtable meetings, the minister met with representatives from leading Chinese companies, such as the Shaanxi Energy Bureau, Yanchang Petroleum Group, Hua Lu Engineering and Technology Group, Shanghai Electric, and Shaanxi Blower Group.

Pakistani companies, including Oil and Gas Development Company (OGDCL), Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL), Mari Petroleum Company Limited (MPCL), Fauji Fertilizer Company Limited (FFC), and the Thar Coal Energy Board, showcased investment opportunities at the Expo.

DAWN NEWS
 
In Chinese New Year greetings, president and PM reaffirm iron ties with China

President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif on Wednesday reaffirmed Pakistan’s “iron ties” with China in their greetings to the Chinese people on Chinese New Year.

The Chinese New Year falls on the second new moon after the winter solstice on December 21. Each year the new year in China falls on a different date than on the Gregorian calendar. The dates usually range sometime between January 21 and February 20. This year is the year of the snake.

Pakistan has a strong bilateral relationship with China, which has supported it through many investments and development projects such as the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor project, described by Pakistani officials as a “lifeline” for the economy.

President Zardari, in a letter to his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping, “reaffirmed his commitment to strengthening the ironclad friendship between the two countries, saying that he is looking forward to meeting President Xi Jinping in Beijing to exchange views on further strengthening bilateral cooperation and advancing the bonds of friendship”, Radio Pakistan reported.

The president said Pakistan would continue to remain firmly committed to the One China policy, emphasising that “this is the cornerstone of our foreign policy”.

In a prerecorded speech to felicitate the president and the Chinese people, PM Shehbaz said, “This iron brotherhood continues to be a cornerstone of Pakistan’s foreign policy, reflecting the deep respect and admiration our nations hold for each other.”

“For us in Pakistan, China’s success story serves as a beacon of inspiration and confidence,” the prime minister continued.

He added: “Pakistan and China share an enduring bond of friendship, a relationship that has been nurtured from generation to generation, a relationship that has been nurtured from generation to generation, our gross friendly ties, rooted in mutual trust and shared aspirations, have now transformed into a comprehensive strategic partnership.”

Prime Minister Shehbaz said the Chinese New Year “signifies renewal, transformation and the promise of new beginnings”. He noted that families and friends gather to share traditional meals, exchange gifts and invite blessings for the year.

“The year of the snake, a symbol of wisdom and vitality, reminds us of the importance of resilience and collective strength as we take on the challenges and strive for a brighter future,” he said.

The premier concluded by saying: “May this year bring good fortune and continued success to our two great nations and further strengthen the unbreakable bonds between our two peoples, Pakistan and China together for a shared future.”

DAWN NEWS
 
Back
Top