[VIDEO] Where does Wasim Akram rank as a fast bowler?

[Abdullah719]

Inzamam speaking about Wasim on his YouTube channel:

"I dont think Pakistan has ever produced a fast-bowler of this kind before, in fact all the cricketers I have met from anywhere in the world have said that he was the best ever left-arm fast-bowler"

"Once Steve Waugh was asked who he would like to be if he was given another life? he replied I would like to be Wasim Akram"

"There were many greats of the game playing when Wasim Akram was playing but one thing special about Wasim was that it appeared that he could get anyone out if he felt like it"

"We needed early wickets during the Chennai Test and on a wicket where fast-bowlers had no help at all, he was bowling unplayable deliveries"

"Wasim's quality was that his bowling was not effected by the slowness of the pitch"

"We were once playing a game against India in Sharjah and it was very hot those days, Sachin hit Wasim for a six with a pull shot; We reached the final of the tournament and the night before that game, Wasim told me that next day I will get Sachin because he hit me for a six; Next day he bowled such that Sachin (and others) could not come up on his front foot; Jadeja said to me - please tell Wasim that it Sachin who hit the six, why are you bowling bouncers to us?"

"I pray to ALLAH swt that more players like Wasim Akram emerge from Pakistan"

 

[Hyperion66]

Top 5 in test and perhaps the best ODI bowler ever. Even then I think he underachieved considering the skill sets he possessed. Ridiculously talented bowler.

 

[IMMY69]

I love watching Akram on Sky’s legends of Cricket but his moto of working hard...

Biggest load of rubbish if ever I’ve heard...

 

[Ozeirk]

I'd say Lindwall, Trueman, Marshall, Lillee, Hadlee, Imran, Ambrose, McGrath and Steyn are all ahead of him.

Then there are some other guys such as Miller, Davidson (stylistically very similar to Wasim), Roberts, Holding, Garner, Donald, Pollock and Waqar who were as good as Wasim.

So IMO he was a great of the game but not absolute top tier.

McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn all played in friendly bowling conditions while Wasim Akram played in Asian pitches and specially UAE where none of the the current Pacers are able to get any success.

Wasim Akram is highly underrated. He is definitely in top 3 bowlers of all time If not first. Also, don't forget Pakistans attrocius fielding.

 

[sindhiboy]

McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn all played in friendly bowling conditions while Wasim Akram played in Asian pitches and specially UAE where none of the the current Pacers are able to get any success.

Wasim Akram is highly underrated. He is definitely in top 3 bowlers of all time If not first. Also, don't forget Pakistans attrocius fielding.

Thing is wasim was statistically not phenomenal in sena(excluding nz) . Averaged 28 in england and mid twenties in aus. 39 in safrica

He performed better in Asia. Think Imran khan is also similar

I think both were more comfortable with reverse swing more than the conventional swing in sena conditions

 

[Manunited18]

Thing is wasim was statistically not phenomenal in sena(excluding nz) . Averaged 28 in england and mid twenties in aus. 39 in safrica

He performed better in Asia. Think Imran khan is also similar

I think both were more comfortable with reverse swing more than the conventional swing in sena conditions

Imran was definitely better than akram in tests, and for a period of time so was waqar, odi no question he's the best, in tests I agree with Rob he's below the elites like mgrath, lilee, Steyn, imran, Ambrose, Truman , hadlee in tests

 

[Sam99]

McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn all played in friendly bowling conditions while Wasim Akram played in Asian pitches and specially UAE where none of the the current Pacers are able to get any success.

Wasim Akram is highly underrated. He is definitely in top 3 bowlers of all time If not first. Also, don't forget Pakistans attrocius fielding.

mcgrath played on pretty flat wickets and wasim was no great overseas. Had great record in asia cause of reverse swing he got by tampering ball. Great bowler but underachieved overseas where he didn't get reverse swing.

 

[Ozeirk]

Thing is wasim was statistically not phenomenal in sena(excluding nz) . Averaged 28 in england and mid twenties in aus. 39 in safrica

He performed better in Asia. Think Imran khan is also similar

I think both were more comfortable with reverse swing more than the conventional swing in sena conditions

When players like McGrath play in Australia or steyn in South Africa they play against all types of teams strong or weak. When Pakistan goto these countries they play the home teams and all the sena have been strong test teams which skews the numbers when comparing with other greats.

 

[tyron_woodley]

one of the best ever.
in odi easy top 3/top5. can't choose. too hard to pick man.

in tests I initially had in at top 5 but having looked at his record I was mildly surprised. top 10 definitely but a bit surprised considering his ability.
maybe Pakistan's fielding let him down.

imran is defintiely top 3. so I guess wasim has to be like 7th then.

 

[shah_1]

Thing is wasim was statistically not phenomenal in sena(excluding nz) . Averaged 28 in england and mid twenties in aus. 39 in safrica

He performed better in Asia. Think Imran khan is also similar

I think both were more comfortable with reverse swing more than the conventional swing in sena conditions

He has played only two matches in SA. Based on that he is bad? Mcgrath has an average of 30 in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Wasim averages 24.05 in Australia to be exact, very close to his overall average.


Why not take WI in consideration. I know there has poor batting level during Styen times but were a decent team during Akram era

He played 41 matches in 5 countries with an average of 24.65.

 

[shah_1]

mcgrath played on pretty flat wickets and wasim was no great overseas. Had great record in asia cause of reverse swing he got by tampering ball. Great bowler but underachieved overseas where he didn't get reverse swing.

24.65 in WI, SA, Eng, Aus and NZ is an underachievement?

Mcgrath averaged 31 in Pakistan and 29 in Sri Lanka

 

[tyron_woodley]

24.65 in WI, SA, Eng, Aus and NZ is an underachievement?

Mcgrath averaged 31 in Pakistan and 29 in Sri Lanka

ohh interesting. maybe mcgrath not as great as I thought. Because he averaged like 21 in india? don't know how but ok.

so wasim> mcgrath? well judging by the stats vs top teams away now I presume so.

 

[tyron_woodley]

thats why only steyn and imran are definite top 3. others have all had bad games in certain countries. Well most of them.

wasim now looks like he may be top 5 after all.

 

[Sam99]

24.65 in WI, SA, Eng, Aus and NZ is an underachievement?

Mcgrath averaged 31 in Pakistan and 29 in Sri Lanka

still averaged 23 in asia and had great record against best batting side of asia on (2001 & 2004 tour to india)

 

[shah_1]

ohh interesting. maybe mcgrath not as great as I thought. Because he averaged like 21 in india? don't know how but ok.

so wasim> mcgrath? well judging by the stats vs top teams away now I presume so.

He does average 21 in India but not every bowler record is perfect

Styen has an average of 28 in Aus, 31.65 in Eng, 26.55 in NZ, 32.78 in UAE, 30.34 in Sri Lanka

 

[tyron_woodley]

He does average 21 in India but not every bowler record is perfect

Styen has an average of 28 in Aus, 31.65 in Eng, 26.55 in NZ, 32.78 in UAE, 30.34 in Sri Lanka

hmm. ok now this really changes things. I don't even care anymore. They are all good.

guess imran is the clear winner with the best stats.

 

[sindhiboy]

He has played only two matches in SA. Based on that he is bad? Mcgrath has an average of 30 in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Wasim averages 24.05 in Australia to be exact, very close to his overall average.


Why not take WI in consideration. I know there has poor batting level during Styen times but were a decent team during Akram era

He played 41 matches in 5 countries with an average of 24.65.

Good point. I never said he is bad, just not as phenomenal according to stats.

But my main point was Imran and wasim found it easier to utilize reverse swing in Asia than conventional swing. And that is the story of many Asian seamers

That puts things in a different perspective.

Asian fast bowlers like umesh Yadav bowl better in india than away.

Vass bowled better in Sri lanka(I think)

Abbas has bowled better in UAE than in the swing friendly conditions of England

 

[therealAB]

Marshall and McGrath have significantly better rounded records than Imran. Imran doesn't average less than 24.5 in any overseas country.

 

[therealAB]

Small sample size in SL. Not great in Pak but toured only before 1999, when he first became a great player. Still averages 18.3 away vs Pak due to excellent UAE averages.

 

[Zaz]

Akram is one of those bowlers that is above stats

The beauty in his bowling wasnt the number of people he got out but how he got them out

The things he could do with a ball left arm over or round the wicket remain unprecedented

To this day a left arm bowler of his class has still not appeared He is to left arm bowling what shane warne is to legspin

 

[therealAB]

Averages 21 in India, 19 in England, 21 in WI (generally strong batting lineups including Sarwan, Richardson, Chanderpaul and Lara of course). 24 in SA isn't as great, but still better than Imran's best away country.

Wasim averaged 24 in Australia (good but no better than McGrath's best figures), 29 in England, 28 in India, 39 in SA, 27 in WI. How exactly is that a better away record than McGrath

 

[therealAB]

Akram however was significantly worse than than those greats on a country by country basis, both in SENA and Asia. Your argument has no basis in fact

 

[Robert]

Averages 21 in India, 19 in England, 21 in WI (generally strong batting lineups including Sarwan, Richardson, Chanderpaul and Lara of course). 24 in SA isn't as great, but still better than Imran's best away country.

Wasim averaged 24 in Australia (good but no better than McGrath's best figures), 29 in England, 28 in India, 39 in SA, 27 in WI. How exactly is that a better away record than McGrath

Magical thinking. You hear things about “talent” with regard to Wasim when less “talented” bowlers are more successful.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Akram however was significantly worse than than those greats on a country by country basis, both in SENA and Asia. Your argument has no basis in fact

yes so mcgrath is better clearly. That's what I thought initially anyway until someone showed the stats. It makes sense now anyway.

mcgrath steyn and imran probably in top 5.

wasim in top 10.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Imagine thinking Steyn is better than Akram just how stupid does one have to be.

 

[Hitman]

Imagine thinking Steyn is better than Akram just how stupid does one have to be.

Not stupid at all. In fact, Steyn is indeed better than Akram in Test cricket. Just compare Steyn's SR of 42.3 compared to Akram's SR of 54.6

Add to that Steyn's average of 22.95 compared to Akram's average of 23.62

Now let's check out the number of wickets they both took. Steyn has 439 wickets compared to Akram's 414 wickets.

In plain words, Steyn took more wickets than Akram, at a better average and a way better SR than him.

P.S. Akram is among my 5 favorite fast bowlers ever, while Steyn isn't.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Not stupid at all. In fact, Steyn is indeed better than Akram in Test cricket. Just compare Steyn's SR of 42.3 compared to Akram's SR of 54.6

Add to that Steyn's average of 22.95 compared to Akram's average of 23.62

Now let's check out the number of wickets they both took. Steyn has 439 wickets compared to Akram's 414 wickets.

In plain words, Steyn took more wickets than Akram, at a better average and a way better SR than him.

P.S. Akram is among my 5 favorite fast bowlers ever, while Steyn isn't.

Don’t care about these numbers plus even if it’s close in tests. In ODIs there is absolutely no comparison

 

[Hitman]

Don’t care about these numbers plus even if it’s close in tests. In ODIs there is absolutely no comparison

You don't have to care, the rest of the cricketing world does care. Why? Because those are not opinions, those are facts. In ODI's, Wasim is the greatest fast bowler, McGrath is his competitor.

 

[Ab Fan]

As I said in past, I will continue to say, Wasim is the greatest fast bowler Asia has ever produced. No cricketer has ever received peer reputation as such as Wasim did.

 

[Hitman]

As I said in past, I will continue to say, Wasim is the greatest fast bowler Asia has ever produced. No cricketer has ever received peer reputation as such as Wasim did.

Sachin Tendulkar has, which is the reason he makes it to top 5/10 in a every one of the list of greatest cricketers, while Wasim Akram makes it to below 20/30.

 

[zulfiqar]

My favorite cricketer of all time and most favorite sports personality of all time. Not even going into his achievements and stats, he was an absolute treat to watch both with new ball and the old ball. in ODIs his bowling at the death was magical as well with batsmen trying their best to get after him but usually failing.

I'd pick him in ODIs at #1. In Tests there are quite a few fast bowlers who are probably objectively than him (read: due to statistics and achievements) - but at just a pure skill level I'd still take him over most of them. Top 10 in tests still for me.

 

[Robert]

As I said in past, I will continue to say, Wasim is the greatest fast bowler Asia has ever produced.

Imran.

 

[shah_1]

Not stupid at all. In fact, Steyn is indeed better than Akram in Test cricket. Just compare Steyn's SR of 42.3 compared to Akram's SR of 54.6

Add to that Steyn's average of 22.95 compared to Akram's average of 23.62

Now let's check out the number of wickets they both took. Steyn has 439 wickets compared to Akram's 414 wickets.

In plain words, Steyn took more wickets than Akram, at a better average and a way better SR than him.

P.S. Akram is among my 5 favorite fast bowlers ever, while Steyn isn't.

He played 16 matches against likes of WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Imagine Wasim Akram getting 16 matches against such weak batting line up, even Pakistan was no better during Styen Era.

During Wasim Era there was no minnow test batting teams. 90s had simply better batting test teams

 

[Ab Fan]

Imran.

Sir Viv Richards, Brian Lara, Ricky Ponting, Jacques Kallis, Kumar Sangakkara, VVS Laxman and many others might disagree.

 

[sshakir411]

Indians have produced less than 5 true fast bowlers in their damn history. Please don’t talk about something you have no damn clue about.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Don’t care about these numbers plus even if it’s close in tests. In ODIs there is absolutely no comparison

No one cares about odi. tests cricket makes legends. steyn is better than akram in tests. Steyn is far more lethal, faster, has more variations and can run through attacks even in sub continent.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Indians have produced less than 5 true fast bowlers in their damn history. Please don’t talk about something you have no damn clue about.

what does that have to do with assessing a bowlers quality. India have produced plenty of great batsmen who have given their opinion about the greatest bowlers and most of them would say steyn is better than wasim. Ask laxman.

 

[therealAB]

Imran is better than Wasim for me, as he was selected young and played very old, having one of the best peaks by any fast bowler ever, which raised him in my opinion. His away records are also, despite not being great, good rather than average in Wasim's case.

 

[sshakir411]

what does that have to do with assessing a bowlers quality. India have produced plenty of great batsmen who have given their opinion about the greatest bowlers and most of them would say steyn is better than wasim. Ask laxman.

Laxman is only an Indian great and not even in the world top 15 batsmen. Please. Stop embarrassing yourself. The same Laxman who could not handle an inswinger from the like of Akram or Mohammad Asif. The same Laxman that lost his stumps to a full toss from a fast medium bowler like Umar Gul.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Laxman is only an Indian great and not even in the world top 15 batsmen. Please. Stop embarrassing yourself. The same Laxman who could not handle an inswinger from the like of Akram or Mohammad Asif. The same Laxman that lost his stumps to a full toss from a fast medium bowler like Umar Gul.

laxman helped india draw a series away in australia and had several match winning/saving performances vs Aussies away from home. this was an all time great aussie team btw. something even your great Pakistani team couldn't achieve. laxman is an all time great. compare steyn's average in india to wasim lol. that will tell you the difference.

when was the last time pakistam won a match in australia?

 

[ManFan]

laxman helped india draw a series away in australia and had several match winning/saving performances vs Aussies away from home. this was an all time great aussie team btw. something even your great Pakistani team couldn't achieve. laxman is an all time great. compare steyn's average in india to wasim lol. that will tell you the difference.

when was the last time pakistam won a match in australia? .

Laxman’s performances were hot and cold.

He was beyond doubt an Indian legend but not an ATG on the international stage.

 

[sshakir411]

laxman helped india draw a series away in australia and had several match winning/saving performances vs Aussies away from home. this was an all time great aussie team btw. something even your great Pakistani team couldn't achieve. laxman is an all time great. compare steyn's average in india to wasim lol. that will tell you the difference.

when was the last time pakistam won a match in australia? so you should shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

here you go...all verified. S

“Over my 15 or 16 years of playing international cricket in Tests and one-day internationals, Wasim Akram is definitely the most outstanding bowler I’ve ever faced.” – Brian Lara

“The one player who really stood out for me was Wasim Akram. It was in that tournament that we realised just what a special talent he was and how much trouble he was going to give us and the rest of the world in the years to come.” – Ian Botham

“The most complete fast bowler I’ve seen” - Allan Donald

“Wasim Akram is the best seam bowler of all times.” - Kapil Dev

“In my opinion Wasim Akram of Pakistan was the best pace bowler that I ever faced. Being able to swing the ball both ways with pace made him the most dangerous bowler “ – Jacques Kallis

“Wasim Akram was a handful when I came in. In my teens, I was a bunny against him.” - Mahela Jayawardene

“Wasim and Waqar were amazing bowlers. I would put them right up there with the best in the world.” - Sachin Tendulkar

“Wasim could do ‘unimaginable’ things with the ball. He is one of my all-time favourites.” - Curtly Ambrose

“Wasim Akram was the toughest bowler i have faced, he has lot of variations.” - V.V.S Laxman

“If I ever get a chance to be reborn as a cricketer, I would want to be Wasim Akram.” - Allan Border

”Wasim can raise 100 bowlers like me from the dust of his shoes. That’s his class!” - Shoaib Akhtar

“Skill-wise I don’t think there has been a better fast bowler. What could he not do with the ball? He swung it both ways, bowled the leg-cutter and the off-cutter.”- Glenn McGrath

“I think I only faced a few overs of Wasim Akram in my career but that was pretty tough.”- Kumar Sangakarra

“Wasim is one of the greats of the past 20 years, we had lots of chats about the game, and i can appreciate the effort he put into reaching the standard that made him one of the best in the business.” - Shane Warne

 

[Manunited18]

what does that have to do with assessing a bowlers quality. India have produced plenty of great batsmen who have given their opinion about the greatest bowlers and most of them would say steyn is better than wasim. Ask laxman.

As far as test cricket goes I agree Steyn is better than wasim no doubt it, Steyn, marshall imran, mgrath, Truman, Ambrose were a class above akram in tests

 

[Robert]

Sir Viv Richards, Brian Lara, Ricky Ponting, Jacques Kallis, Kumar Sangakkara, VVS Laxman and many others might disagree.

Only one of them faced Imran.

 

[tyron_woodley]

here you go...all verified. S

“Over my 15 or 16 years of playing international cricket in Tests and one-day internationals, Wasim Akram is definitely the most outstanding bowler I’ve ever faced.” – Brian Lara

“The one player who really stood out for me was Wasim Akram. It was in that tournament that we realised just what a special talent he was and how much trouble he was going to give us and the rest of the world in the years to come.” – Ian Botham

“The most complete fast bowler I’ve seen” - Allan Donald

“Wasim Akram is the best seam bowler of all times.” - Kapil Dev

“In my opinion Wasim Akram of Pakistan was the best pace bowler that I ever faced. Being able to swing the ball both ways with pace made him the most dangerous bowler “ – Jacques Kallis

“Wasim Akram was a handful when I came in. In my teens, I was a bunny against him.” - Mahela Jayawardene

“Wasim and Waqar were amazing bowlers. I would put them right up there with the best in the world.” - Sachin Tendulkar

“Wasim could do ‘unimaginable’ things with the ball. He is one of my all-time favourites.” - Curtly Ambrose

“Wasim Akram was the toughest bowler i have faced, he has lot of variations.” - V.V.S Laxman

“If I ever get a chance to be reborn as a cricketer, I would want to be Wasim Akram.” - Allan Border

”Wasim can raise 100 bowlers like me from the dust of his shoes. That’s his class!” - Shoaib Akhtar

“Skill-wise I don’t think there has been a better fast bowler. What could he not do with the ball? He swung it both ways, bowled the leg-cutter and the off-cutter.”- Glenn McGrath

“I think I only faced a few overs of Wasim Akram in my career but that was pretty tough.”- Kumar Sangakarra

“Wasim is one of the greats of the past 20 years, we had lots of chats about the game, and i can appreciate the effort he put into reaching the standard that made him one of the best in the business.” - Shane Warne

this was all pre steyn era. as In before players faced prime steyn ( 2008-2012) so my point still stands. steyn> wasim.

you could say imran > or = to steyn but not wasim.

 

[Manunited18]

It's all about opinions, my dad who massive cricket fan and spicificly fast bowling thought imran marshall Trueman were the best 3 he ever saw

 

[sharmaji]

I never saw the old fast bowlers mentioned here play. Even Wasim I saw only a few matches when he was close to retirement, so I probably missed out on watching him at his best. And I don't even remember his bowling to be frank, but I know that all the old people around me highly respect Wasim and call him the greatest bowler there ever was.

 

[Hitman]

Only one of them faced Imran.

And he rates Akram better.

 

[tyron_woodley]

It's all about opinions, my dad who massive cricket fan and spicificly fast bowling thought imran marshall Trueman were the best 3 he ever saw

agreed.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Wasim's the greatest ever in ODIs and pretty close in Tests. As an Indian and when our team was all about Tendulkar, just loved watching him bowl.

 

[Hitman]

At the end of the day these type of argument leads nowhere. I have always believed that truly great players should never be compared because each one of them brings a unique flavor to the game. Wasim Akram showed us what swing bowling at it's highest form is like. Let's just say he is one of the best ever and be done with it.

 

[tyron_woodley]

well I asked my dad, he reckons imran khan was the best of the past era.
for some reason he rates Alan donald as the best post 90s. He puts Alan above mcgrath, steyn.

Don't get me wrong Alan is without a doubt a ATG but he dint play long enough to be the best ever.

 

[Ab Fan]

Only one of them faced Imran.

Add Ian Botham and Mahela Jayawardene to list.

Nobody from 90s or ahead rate Imran as the toughest. In reality, it should have been the opposite as Imran is a generation before Wasim and senior to him. So, he had that advantage yet Wasim well ahead in peer reputation.

 

[dhawan]

For me, he is the best ever pace bowler.

 

[Robert]

And he rates Akram better.

Did Sir Viv say that? It's curious given that Imran got him out more times.

 

[Robert]

Add Ian Botham and Mahela Jayawardene to list.

Nobody from 90s or ahead rate Imran as the toughest. In reality, it should have been the opposite as Imran is a generation before Wasim and senior to him. So, he had that advantage yet Wasim well ahead in peer reputation.

This is peculiar - Sir Ian said the most difficult bowlers he faced were Roberts and Lillee.

 

[Hitman]

Did Sir Viv say that? It's curious given that Imran got him out more times.

"I’ve always rated Wasim [Akram] as the best bowler I have ever faced,” he said.

“I saw him at the back end of my career and I have no regret in saying this but I'm glad that was in the retirement lane at that time because I think he was very special.

“It just wasn’t about swing or accuracy, it was about the aggression that he brought as well. He was quick as any on a given day and I just felt he had a lot offer. Like I said, I’m just glad that he came at a time that I was ready to go.”

Link: https://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/...-says-richards-1.1566605#.Vc7SnSYtjDE.twitter

 

[Ab Fan]

This is peculiar - Sir Ian said the most difficult bowlers he faced were Roberts and Lillee.

Irrespective of everything, what it certainly proves that Wasim has attained more peer reputation than any other fast bowler the game has ever seen. He is rated as the most difficult or greatest by pretty much all the top bat from his era(his peers) and a couple of blokes who didn't played in his era as well. That's enough to make conclusion.

 

[Ozeirk]

Not a fair comparison between McGrath and Wasim as average doesn't tell you the whole story. Most times when Wasim played he was the one trying to get the team out of trouble while McGrath was playing in one of the greatest teams of all time with batsmen like Gilchrist, Langer, Waugh and ponting and bowlers like Shane Warne giving him a solid platform to work off.

There's a difference when you're defending subpar scores compared to defending above par scores.

 

[sshakir411]

McGrath being a better test bowler than Akram is still a debate you can have. But Steyn? Please keep these teenagers away from serious discussions.

 

[tyron_woodley]

McGrath being a better test bowler than Akram is still a debate you can have. But Steyn? Please keep these teenagers away from serious discussions.

you are wrong here. I would agree with imran. Not wasim. steyn solo has destroyed top teams with ease. Single handedly run through the entire top order. wasim gets tail out like starc often.

 

[Manunited18]

McGrath being a better test bowler than Akram is still a debate you can have. But Steyn? Please keep these teenagers away from serious discussions.

Steyn was a absolute champion, I'd definitely put him ahead of akram in tests

 

[Mamoon]

Steyn is terribly overrated on this forum.

 

[Buffet]

Steyn is terribly overrated on this forum.

Between Steyn and Wasim in tests?? It's other way around in this forum.

Taking 3 wicket upfront is a lot more valuable than taking the last 3 wickets. Steyn took wickets upfront to change the match, Wasim took more tails in era when tails were mostly walking wickets.

It's not reflected in bowling averages, but reflected in long term rating trend . Ratings took account of how high batsmen were rated when they were dismissed by a bowler.




Steyn is comparable to McGrath in test and shouldn't be compared with Wasim. Wasim was a far better bowler in ODI format than test format.

 

[Hasan]

11th best bowler of all time!

 

[Robert]

Steyn is terribly overrated on this forum.

Wow, completely disagree. Look at that strike rate. Better than Trueman’s, better than Marshall’s.

 

[Ab Fan]

Steyn is terribly overrated on this forum.

Is there any Saffer (who played for South Africa) and is considered a great you don't find overrated?

 

[Robert]

Irrespective of everything, what it certainly proves that Wasim has attained more peer reputation than any other fast bowler the game has ever seen. He is rated as the most difficult or greatest by pretty much all the top bat from his era(his peers) and a couple of blokes who didn't played in his era as well. That's enough to make conclusion.

It “proves” nothing of the kind. No, it means he has more peer reputation than other bowlers from the 1990s only. The players of the 1970s would say the same about Lillee. And Imran said Lillee was the best fast bowler he ever saw - not Marshall, not Ambrose, not Wasim.

 

[Ab Fan]

It “proves” nothing of the kind. No, <B>it means he has more peer reputation than other bowlers from the 1990s only.</B> The players of the 1970s would say the same about Lillee. And Imran said Lillee was the best fast bowler he ever saw - not Marshall, not Ambrose, not Wasim.

And there were plenty great bowlers and batsmen in 90s and early 00s. See, the fact that most of Wasim's peer have rated him highly tell us more about genuinity of their opinions. Of course, Lillee was a revolutionary of fast bowling, so there will be opinions favouring him as well.

But when the likes of Lara, Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara all of them rate Wasim as the best ahead of McGrath,Ambrose, Donald, Waqar, Pollock, Walsh, Bishop etc it tells us a lot that we have to know.

Moreover, he was pivotal in making England wait long enough for their first WC victory which came after 27 years from when it could have been.

 

[Robert]

And there were plenty great bowlers and batsmen in 90s and early 00s. See, the fact that most of Wasim's peer have rated him highly tell us more about genuinity of their opinions. Of course, Lillee was a revolutionary of fast bowling, so there will be opinions favouring him as well.

But when the likes of Lara, Ponting, Kallis and Sangakkara all of them rate Wasim as the best ahead of McGrath,Ambrose, Donald, Waqar, Pollock, Walsh, Bishop etc it tells us a lot that we have to know.

Moreover, he was pivotal in making England wait long enough for their first WC victory which came after 27 years from when it could have been.

Mushtaq got three wickets too, does that make him better than Shane Warne? Pringle had better figures tham Wasim in that match, does that mean he is better than Wasim? Garner made England wait 40 years, not just 27. Garner must be 1.5 x as good as Wasim.

 

[Hitman]

Mushtaq got three wickets too, does that make him better than Shane Warne? Pringle had better figures tham Wasim in that match, does that mean he is better than Wasim? Garner made England wait 40 years, not just 27. Garner must be 1.5 x as good as Wasim.

I think the problem a lot of posters have with you is that you seem to suggest with your posts that Wasim Akram is an overrated bowler, and there are plenty of bowlers better than him. That is not the case. He is one of the best ever. What's true however is that there are bowlers as good as him.

But then again you have also suggested in the past that Sachin Tendulkar is an overrated batsman despite him making it to almost 99% of all All Time XI including WISDEN's.

 

[Ab Fan]

Mushtaq got three wickets too, does that make him better than Shane Warne? Pringle had better figures tham Wasim in that match, does that mean he is better than Wasim? Garner made England wait 40 years, not just 27. Garner must be 1.5 x as good as Wasim.

For me, it depends on the combination of all the factors, it's never one big day but it's the combination. As an example, if Pringle becomes the player of match in WC finals, it won't make him a great of the game. But if between two players of relatively equal stature Wasim and Waqar, if Wasim wins his team a World Cup final and Waqar doesnt, he will certainly be declared better than Waqar.

Pringle may have better figures than Wasim (even then, Wasim was MOM in that game) but overall as a cricketer, he is nowhere close to the league of those ATG fast bowlers. Pringle got figures of 22-3(10) in WC final while Botham got 1-42(7) and a score of 0 getting ripped by Wasim on the big day, yet Botham remains England's greatest because there is a huge gulf between the two as a cricketer.

Stokes and Root are two players of similar stature but Stokes winning his team a World Cup certainly enhances his legacy as a cricketer more than Joe Root. Basically that's what I am trying to conclude.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

What's with the recent comparison between Steyn and Akram?

Steyn got owned by Babar in SA even though he only just found his feet in Test cricket.

Even Steyn would be mad with some of you guys at this comparison.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Sometimes stats alone don't do justice. By that means some dibbly dobbly pre world war 2 era bowlers would be considered GOATS . Wasim is undoubtedly a GOAT top 3 Pacers to have ever graced the game. A true bowling magician..

 

[shaz619]

The other factors people forget is the politics/corruption and also serious health issues he had to deal with at his peak. He had to show immense mental fortitude to overcome so much and yet he still managed to have one hell of a career, I think if he played for England he would have at least minimum 850 wickets in Tests and 600 in ODI's.

 

[Bigboii]

Mushtaq got three wickets too, does that make him better than Shane Warne? Pringle had better figures tham Wasim in that match, does that mean he is better than Wasim? Garner made England wait 40 years, not just 27. Garner must be 1.5 x as good as Wasim.

You are nitpicking from his overall argument

 

[Manunited18]

What's with the recent comparison between Steyn and Akram?

Steyn got owned by Babar in SA even though he only just found his feet in Test cricket.

Even Steyn would be mad with some of you guys at this comparison.

Ok, in what ways is akram better than Steyn in tests

 

[Robert]

You are nitpicking from his overall argument

I'm making fun of one specific point.

I have already countered the rest of it.

 

[Robert]

I think the problem a lot of posters have with you is that you seem to suggest with your posts that Wasim Akram is an overrated bowler, and there are plenty of bowlers better than him. That is not the case. He is one of the best ever. What's true however is that there are bowlers as good as him.

But then again you have also suggested in the past that Sachin Tendulkar is an overrated batsman despite him making it to almost 99% of all All Time XI including WISDEN's.

I don't care if they have a problem with me - Wasim is overrated on this board. The arguments are based on something akin to mythology, or refer to something unquantifiable called "talent" which is why they are proof against reason. There are plenty of better bowlers - Imran, Marshall, Garner, Hadlee, Amrose, Steyn, McGrath. Just look at the numbers. Not much better. But better.

The only time I recall saying that Tendulkar was overrated was when someone said he was the best ever, which would mean he was better than Bradman. I don't think he was better than some contemporaries such as Miandad, Lara, Ponting and Kallis.

 

[Robert]

Ok, in what ways is akram better than Steyn in tests

"Talent". This makes his strike rate of 53 better than Steyn's strike rate of 40. Magical thinking.