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[VIDEO] Why Western Women Are Converting To Islam

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Poseidon

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this is great but small documentary , it includes mostly white western women .

 
About 75 % of the Muslim converts in the West are women. So much for Islam oppressing women.
 
szrana007 said:
About 75 % of the Muslim converts in the West are women. So much for Islam oppressing women.
Click to expand...

We have to be fair, some are converting for marriage.

But yes there is a growing rate of western women converting to Islam.

Islam gives women more rights and also the huge respect a mother is given. A lot of women are sick of having to conform to modern society, ie must look pretty, make up, lip filler and other forms of surgery. Women are also expected to work and earn their own money.
 
Subhanallah.

Great to see.

I also heard Islam is spreading fast among Latin Americans.
 
szrana007 said:
About 75 % of the Muslim converts in the West are women. So much for Islam oppressing women.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Intelligent women do not think Islam is oppressive. Women who think Islam is oppressive are the bimbos and radical liberals.
 
One of the ladies on Hajj with us was a Revert to Islam. I think the desi communities don't know how to support such people and they become quite lonely as they lose their previous family/ friendship networks and don't gain any new ones to replace them.
 
This should be a topic of discussion because Westerners/Liberals/Seculars often claim religion especially Islam oppresses Women so why would so many women from Western Society convert to Islam ?
 
boomboomcheema said:
This should be a topic of discussion because Westerners/Liberals/Seculars often claim religion especially Islam oppresses Women so why would so many women from Western Society convert to Islam ?
Click to expand...

Good question.

It is because secularism/liberalism is pretentious and phony. It has no real structure; it encourages an "anything goes" mindset.

Secularism/Liberalism is like a boat with no radar. It is filled with confusion. It is perhaps why many seculars/liberals have to resort to drugs, alcohol etc. to cope.

Islam, on the other hand, has templates for everything. It is a complete way of life. Good and bad are clearly defined in Islam.
 
Last edited:
boomboomcheema said:
This should be a topic of discussion because Westerners/Liberals/Seculars often claim religion especially Islam oppresses Women so why would so many women from Western Society convert to Islam ?
Click to expand...

A patriarchal system oppresses women by definition. For instance Protestantism banned women from speaking in church until recently, and Catholicism still does.

I don’t know, maybe these Western women feel confused and scared by society, and feel safer in Islam?
 
White women are liberated ones and they convert to every religion out there. They do not get shunned or persecuted for that. From what I see, most are into Buddhism. They may not officially change their name to an Indian sounding one or wear a Buddhist attire, but all of their practices are Buddhist. Mostly the vegan types.
 
The main reasons for Islam’s growth ultimately involve simple demographics. To begin with, Muslims have more children than members of the seven other major religious groups analyzed in the study. Muslim women have an average of 2.9 children, significantly above the next-highest group (Christians at 2.6) and the average of all non-Muslims (2.2). In all major regions where there is a sizable Muslim population, Muslim fertility exceeds non-Muslim fertility.

The growth of the Muslim population also is helped by the fact that Muslims have the youngest median age (24 in 2015) of all major religious groups, more than seven years younger than the median age of non-Muslims (32).
 
Champ_Pal said:
White women are liberated ones and they convert to every religion out there. They do not get shunned or persecuted for that. From what I see, most are into Buddhism. They may not officially change their name to an Indian sounding one or wear a Buddhist attire, but all of their practices are Buddhist. Mostly the vegan types.
Click to expand...

There are literally hundreds of thousands of western converts to Islam and most of them are women.

 
SalimBhai said:
The main reasons for Islam’s growth ultimately involve simple demographics. To begin with, Muslims have more children than members of the seven other major religious groups analyzed in the study. Muslim women have an average of 2.9 children, significantly above the next-highest group (Christians at 2.6) and the average of all non-Muslims (2.2). In all major regions where there is a sizable Muslim population, Muslim fertility exceeds non-Muslim fertility.

The growth of the Muslim population also is helped by the fact that Muslims have the youngest median age (24 in 2015) of all major religious groups, more than seven years younger than the median age of non-Muslims (32).
Click to expand...

All religions grow due to birth rates, but Islam also grows due to conversion. There are more than hundred thousand Muslim converts in the UK alone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...UK-White-women-keen-embrace-Muslim-faith.html
 
Robert said:
I don’t know, maybe these Western women feel confused and scared by society, and feel safer in Islam?
Click to expand...

These women like the protection and the structure, Islam offers them, so the answer to your question is yes.
 
szrana007 said:
All religions grow due to birth rates, but Islam also grows due to conversion. There are more than hundred thousand Muslim converts in the UK alone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...UK-White-women-keen-embrace-Muslim-faith.html
Click to expand...

In USA according to the pew report 24 percent people are leaving islam, the same number are joining..According to the UN report 27 percent are leaving islam and slightly less are joining. As discussed before I predict more people are leaving than 24 to 27 percent because of the stigma with leaving ones religion, community, angering parents and worst case death.
 
https://religionnews.com/2021/07/07/exmna-the-cost-of-leaving-islam-for-american-muslims/Why are young Muslims leaving Islam
A new generation of educated Muslims is starting to question the fundamentals of their faith
Islam is facing a wave of desertion by young Muslims suffering from a crisis of faith

Hasan Suroor | Published 11.09.19, 11:41 AM
And it is not just an American or Western phenomenon. Even deeply conservative countries with strict anti-apostasy regimes like Pakistan, Iran and Sudan have been hit by desertions. The Saudis were taken aback when the American journal, The New Republic, revealed the scale of Muslim conversion to atheism in their country, and more widely in the Muslim world. The numbers were eye-popping, ranging from hundreds to thousands in some countries. The Editor-in-chief of FreeArabs.com says:

When I recently searched Facebook in both Arabic and English, combining the word ‘atheist’ with names of different Arab countries I turned up over 250 pages or groups, with memberships ranging from a few individuals to more than 11,000. And these numbers only pertain to Arab atheists (or Arabs concerned with the topic of atheism) who are committed enough to leave a trace online,’


(Invisible Atheists, Ahmed Benchemsi, The New Republic, 24 April 2015)

The journal cited a 2012, WIN/Gallup International poll which found that 5 per cent of Saudi citizens—more than a million people—self-identified as ‘convinced atheists,’ the same percentage as in the United States. ‘19 per cent of Saudis—almost six million people—think of themselves as “not a religious person.” In Italy, the figure is 15 per cent. These numbers are even more striking considering that many Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Sudan and Yemen, uphold the Sharia rule punishing apostasy with death,’ it pointed out.

It is claimed that the atheist-scientist Richard Dawkin’s God Delusion is the most downloaded book in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia. It is now being translated into Arabic and there are plans to offer it free to Arab readers. The trend is catching on despite the fact that in many Islamic countries, apostasy is punishable by death. Most Islamic countries oppose the universal declaration of human rights and have refused to sign it because it provides for the ‘freedom to change religion or belief.’

The exact figure of former Muslims may never be known as most remain in the shadows to avoid detection. Those who have ‘outed’ themselves say they live in permanent fear for their own lives and safety of their families. In Pakistan, preachers have called for the houses of apostates to be burned down. They communicate through anonymous online forums claiming tens of thousands of followers, and loose global networks under the umbrella nomenclature, ‘Ex-Muslims’ and ‘Muslim-ish.’ A Twitter campaign in Britain in 2015, had thousands of ex-Muslims from across the world tweeting their reasons for choosing to abandon their faith. These ranged from intolerance and inferior status of women to absence of freedom of thought and the idea of immutability of a seventh century doctrine. One -@Lib Muslim wrote: #ExMuslimBecause Misogyny, homophobia, stoning people to death, and killing apostates don’t suddenly become “respectable” when put in a holy book. (Ali A. Rizvi, Huffington Post, 23 November, 2015)

Oxford University academic Faisal Devji has argued that by retaining ‘Muslim’ in their name, ‘ex-Muslims are recognizing the theological character of their renunciation.’

The Muslims among whom I was raised in East Africa included many who refused to pray or fast and were openly critical of religion. It would never occur to them to renounce Islam and proclaim atheism as a new identity or mission, which would have catapulted them back into a theological narrative.

(Conversions from Islam in Europe and Beyond, Faisal Devji, The New York Times, 15 April, 2017)

The Economist narrated the story of an American Muslim boy of Somali descent, Mahad Olad, whose immigrant parents tricked him into going on a holiday with them to Kenya where they had made arrangements for him to go to a seminary to ‘restore’ his failing faith in Islam. He had no idea about his parents’ plans until he landed in Kenya.

As soon as he stepped off the plane on a family holiday to Kenya, Mahad Olad knew something was wrong. His mother, a ‘very devout, very conservative, very Wahhabi’ woman, was acting strangely—furtively taking phone calls when she thought he was out of earshot. His suspicions would soon be proved correct. Mr Olad’s family, Somali immigrants to America and devout Muslims, had discovered that he had not only renounced Islam but was also gay. The holiday was a ruse, an intervention to save his soul.

(The Economist, 15 March, 2018)

When he got wise of their plan to hand him over to the care of Muslim clerics who would ‘restore’ his faith, he got so frightened that he managed to escape. ‘In the dead of night he sneaked into his mother’s room, stole his passport and was whisked away by taxi to the embassy, which eventually returned him safely to America. He has not spoken to his family since,’ according to the above report.

Behind Olad’s story hangs a tale we don’t usually hear about: how Islam is facing a wave of desertion by young Muslims suffering from a crisis of faith. The story we normally hear is of an Islam growing from strength to strength, and how for all the phobia that exists around it, it remains the fastest growing religion with 1.6 billion followers across the world and acquiring new converts on an almost daily basis. What we don’t hear is that it is also being abandoned by moderate Muslims, mostly young men and women, ill at ease with growing extremism in their communities. The ranks of ex-Muslims is reported to be swelling. ‘As the number of American Muslims has increased by almost 50 per cent in the past decade, so too has the number of ex-Muslims,’ The Economist report said, citing a Pew Research Centre survey according to which 23 per cent of Americans raised as Muslims no longer identify with the faith. Most are young second-generation immigrants, but there are also older Muslims ‘married to devout Muslim spouses and driving children to the mosque to study the Koran, at weekends to cover up their apostasy.’

Simon Cottee, a British academic, has documented stories of many former Muslims in The Apostate: When Muslims Leave Islam. In each case, reasons for their decision differ, varying from religious bigotry and oppression, to violence in the name of Islam. Sometimes, as The Economist wrote in the 15 March, 2018 report, it could be a reaction to certain Quranic verses or the Hadith—the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad. ‘Often the verses that trigger this are controversial ones about slavery or gender that family members and imams cannot explain satisfactorily. Coming across the writings of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens sometimes has the same effect. Some chafe at sexism or homophobia,’ it reported.

According to Faisal Devji,

Whether the converts are repulsed by the violent forms Islam has taken in places like Syria and Afghanistan or are backing up their claims for asylum, the conversions occur quietly and rarely as a result of proselytism. Nor do they tend to be accompanied by any transformation in the appearance, behavior or language of the convert. Analyzing the news reports suggests that these conversions are characterized by multiple quotidian and ambiguous motives. (The New York Times, 15 August, 2017)

Brian Whitaker, a noted Middle East correspondent and the author of Arabs Without God, debunks the explanation that the phenomenon is a reaction to the violent acts being perpetrated in the name of Islam.

While researching my book…I spent a lot of time trying to find out why some Arabs turn to atheism and none of those I spoke to mentioned terrorism or jihadism as a major factor… That is not particularly surprising, because atheism is a rejection of all forms of religion, not just the more outlandish variants of it.

Benchemsi in his Invisible Atheists, New Republic article mentioned earlier, pointed out:

For the vast majority of Arab atheists, the road to disbelief begins…with personal doubts. They start to question the illogicalities found in the holy texts. Why are non-Muslims destined to hell, even though many of them are nice, decent people? Since God knows the future and controls everything, why would he put some people on the wrong path, then punish them as if he had nothing to do with their choices? Why is wine forbidden, yet virtuous Muslims are promised rivers of it in heaven?



It is a significant common thread running through most of the accounts of ex-Muslims I’ve read: that it was NOT an easy decision to make. Some mulled for years before they were able to make up their minds as they struggled to reconcile what they saw as the contradictions between all the nice things they were taught about Islam and how it was actually practised. Before jumping ship, most apostates claim they made sincere efforts to clarify their doubts and overcome their scepticism— some learned Arabic and went back to original texts to make sure for themselves that they hadn’t got it wrong. It was only when—on the basis of their own independent reading of the scriptures—they concluded that they could not honestly continue to cling on to their faith, that they reluctantly took the plunge.

Many are said to suffer intense emotional and psychological trauma afterwards in a sign of how strongly Muslims feel about their religious identity, and Islam’s dominant presence in their lives, as I have already discussed. The loss of that identity leaves them in a social and moral limbo. There is at least one documented case of suicide—a young British Muslim, Irtaza Hussain, felt so disorientated and depressed that he went to seed and ultimately took his own life.

The trend has been described as a ‘ticking bomb’ with a new generation of educated Muslims starting to question the fundamentals of their faith.
 
SalimBhai said:
https://religionnews.com/2021/07/07/exmna-the-cost-of-leaving-islam-for-american-muslims/Why are young Muslims leaving Islam
A new generation of educated Muslims is starting to question the fundamentals of their faith
Islam is facing a wave of desertion by young Muslims suffering from a crisis of faith

Hasan Suroor | Published 11.09.19, 11:41 AM
And it is not just an American or Western phenomenon. Even deeply conservative countries with strict anti-apostasy regimes like Pakistan, Iran and Sudan have been hit by desertions. The Saudis were taken aback when the American journal, The New Republic, revealed the scale of Muslim conversion to atheism in their country, and more widely in the Muslim world. The numbers were eye-popping, ranging from hundreds to thousands in some countries. The Editor-in-chief of FreeArabs.com says:

When I recently searched Facebook in both Arabic and English, combining the word ‘atheist’ with names of different Arab countries I turned up over 250 pages or groups, with memberships ranging from a few individuals to more than 11,000. And these numbers only pertain to Arab atheists (or Arabs concerned with the topic of atheism) who are committed enough to leave a trace online,’


(Invisible Atheists, Ahmed Benchemsi, The New Republic, 24 April 2015)

The journal cited a 2012, WIN/Gallup International poll which found that 5 per cent of Saudi citizens—more than a million people—self-identified as ‘convinced atheists,’ the same percentage as in the United States. ‘19 per cent of Saudis—almost six million people—think of themselves as “not a religious person.” In Italy, the figure is 15 per cent. These numbers are even more striking considering that many Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Sudan and Yemen, uphold the Sharia rule punishing apostasy with death,’ it pointed out.

It is claimed that the atheist-scientist Richard Dawkin’s God Delusion is the most downloaded book in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia. It is now being translated into Arabic and there are plans to offer it free to Arab readers. The trend is catching on despite the fact that in many Islamic countries, apostasy is punishable by death. Most Islamic countries oppose the universal declaration of human rights and have refused to sign it because it provides for the ‘freedom to change religion or belief.’

The exact figure of former Muslims may never be known as most remain in the shadows to avoid detection. Those who have ‘outed’ themselves say they live in permanent fear for their own lives and safety of their families. In Pakistan, preachers have called for the houses of apostates to be burned down. They communicate through anonymous online forums claiming tens of thousands of followers, and loose global networks under the umbrella nomenclature, ‘Ex-Muslims’ and ‘Muslim-ish.’ A Twitter campaign in Britain in 2015, had thousands of ex-Muslims from across the world tweeting their reasons for choosing to abandon their faith. These ranged from intolerance and inferior status of women to absence of freedom of thought and the idea of immutability of a seventh century doctrine. One -@Lib Muslim wrote: #ExMuslimBecause Misogyny, homophobia, stoning people to death, and killing apostates don’t suddenly become “respectable” when put in a holy book. (Ali A. Rizvi, Huffington Post, 23 November, 2015)

Oxford University academic Faisal Devji has argued that by retaining ‘Muslim’ in their name, ‘ex-Muslims are recognizing the theological character of their renunciation.’

The Muslims among whom I was raised in East Africa included many who refused to pray or fast and were openly critical of religion. It would never occur to them to renounce Islam and proclaim atheism as a new identity or mission, which would have catapulted them back into a theological narrative.

(Conversions from Islam in Europe and Beyond, Faisal Devji, The New York Times, 15 April, 2017)

The Economist narrated the story of an American Muslim boy of Somali descent, Mahad Olad, whose immigrant parents tricked him into going on a holiday with them to Kenya where they had made arrangements for him to go to a seminary to ‘restore’ his failing faith in Islam. He had no idea about his parents’ plans until he landed in Kenya.

As soon as he stepped off the plane on a family holiday to Kenya, Mahad Olad knew something was wrong. His mother, a ‘very devout, very conservative, very Wahhabi’ woman, was acting strangely—furtively taking phone calls when she thought he was out of earshot. His suspicions would soon be proved correct. Mr Olad’s family, Somali immigrants to America and devout Muslims, had discovered that he had not only renounced Islam but was also gay. The holiday was a ruse, an intervention to save his soul.

(The Economist, 15 March, 2018)

When he got wise of their plan to hand him over to the care of Muslim clerics who would ‘restore’ his faith, he got so frightened that he managed to escape. ‘In the dead of night he sneaked into his mother’s room, stole his passport and was whisked away by taxi to the embassy, which eventually returned him safely to America. He has not spoken to his family since,’ according to the above report.

Behind Olad’s story hangs a tale we don’t usually hear about: how Islam is facing a wave of desertion by young Muslims suffering from a crisis of faith. The story we normally hear is of an Islam growing from strength to strength, and how for all the phobia that exists around it, it remains the fastest growing religion with 1.6 billion followers across the world and acquiring new converts on an almost daily basis. What we don’t hear is that it is also being abandoned by moderate Muslims, mostly young men and women, ill at ease with growing extremism in their communities. The ranks of ex-Muslims is reported to be swelling. ‘As the number of American Muslims has increased by almost 50 per cent in the past decade, so too has the number of ex-Muslims,’ The Economist report said, citing a Pew Research Centre survey according to which 23 per cent of Americans raised as Muslims no longer identify with the faith. Most are young second-generation immigrants, but there are also older Muslims ‘married to devout Muslim spouses and driving children to the mosque to study the Koran, at weekends to cover up their apostasy.’

Simon Cottee, a British academic, has documented stories of many former Muslims in The Apostate: When Muslims Leave Islam. In each case, reasons for their decision differ, varying from religious bigotry and oppression, to violence in the name of Islam. Sometimes, as The Economist wrote in the 15 March, 2018 report, it could be a reaction to certain Quranic verses or the Hadith—the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad. ‘Often the verses that trigger this are controversial ones about slavery or gender that family members and imams cannot explain satisfactorily. Coming across the writings of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens sometimes has the same effect. Some chafe at sexism or homophobia,’ it reported.

According to Faisal Devji,

Whether the converts are repulsed by the violent forms Islam has taken in places like Syria and Afghanistan or are backing up their claims for asylum, the conversions occur quietly and rarely as a result of proselytism. Nor do they tend to be accompanied by any transformation in the appearance, behavior or language of the convert. Analyzing the news reports suggests that these conversions are characterized by multiple quotidian and ambiguous motives. (The New York Times, 15 August, 2017)

Brian Whitaker, a noted Middle East correspondent and the author of Arabs Without God, debunks the explanation that the phenomenon is a reaction to the violent acts being perpetrated in the name of Islam.

While researching my book…I spent a lot of time trying to find out why some Arabs turn to atheism and none of those I spoke to mentioned terrorism or jihadism as a major factor… That is not particularly surprising, because atheism is a rejection of all forms of religion, not just the more outlandish variants of it.

Benchemsi in his Invisible Atheists, New Republic article mentioned earlier, pointed out:

For the vast majority of Arab atheists, the road to disbelief begins…with personal doubts. They start to question the illogicalities found in the holy texts. Why are non-Muslims destined to hell, even though many of them are nice, decent people? Since God knows the future and controls everything, why would he put some people on the wrong path, then punish them as if he had nothing to do with their choices? Why is wine forbidden, yet virtuous Muslims are promised rivers of it in heaven?



It is a significant common thread running through most of the accounts of ex-Muslims I’ve read: that it was NOT an easy decision to make. Some mulled for years before they were able to make up their minds as they struggled to reconcile what they saw as the contradictions between all the nice things they were taught about Islam and how it was actually practised. Before jumping ship, most apostates claim they made sincere efforts to clarify their doubts and overcome their scepticism— some learned Arabic and went back to original texts to make sure for themselves that they hadn’t got it wrong. It was only when—on the basis of their own independent reading of the scriptures—they concluded that they could not honestly continue to cling on to their faith, that they reluctantly took the plunge.

Many are said to suffer intense emotional and psychological trauma afterwards in a sign of how strongly Muslims feel about their religious identity, and Islam’s dominant presence in their lives, as I have already discussed. The loss of that identity leaves them in a social and moral limbo. There is at least one documented case of suicide—a young British Muslim, Irtaza Hussain, felt so disorientated and depressed that he went to seed and ultimately took his own life.

The trend has been described as a ‘ticking bomb’ with a new generation of educated Muslims starting to question the fundamentals of their faith.
Click to expand...

Your propaganda article is unlikely to fool anyone.

Just because a bunch of naive people left Islam doesn't mean Islam is declining. As a matter of fact, it is growing at a very healthy rate.
 
SalimBhai said:
In USA according to the pew report 24 percent people are leaving islam, the same number are joining..According to the UN report 27 percent are leaving islam and slightly less are joining. As discussed before I predict more people are leaving than 24 to 27 percent because of the stigma with leaving ones religion, community, angering parents and worst case death.
Click to expand...

You keep posting the same nonsense again, I know about the USA numbers, yet Islam is the fastest growing religion in the West with hundred thousands of converts.
 
sweep_shot said:
Your propaganda article is unlikely to fool anyone.

Just because a bunch of naive people left Islam doesn't mean Islam is declining. As a matter of fact, it is growing at a very healthy rate.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what he doesn't realize is that more people convert to Islam rather than leaving it, hence it continues to grow globally.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Interesting, the article you shared is mentions that there are estimated 1000000 converts in the UK in 2011. The number of converts should be much higher now considering we are currently in the year 2023.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the total number of Muslim converts in the UK should be alot higher now, thats my guess too.
 
szrana007 said:
Yeah, what he doesn't realize is that more people convert to Islam rather than leaving it, hence it continues to grow globally.
Click to expand...

I wonder if he is trying to justify his apostasy by posting misleading and inaccurate articles.

If SalimBhai's posts were true, we would've seen decline of Islam. But, that's not the case.

Math has to add up.
 
sweep_shot said:
I wonder if he is trying to justify his apostasy by posting misleading and inaccurate articles.

If SalimBhai's posts were true, we would've seen decline of Islam. But, that's not the case.

Math has to add up.
Click to expand...

It's hilarious , I am picking ups facts and figures from the article you guys provided. Hilarious.....
 
heres a clip from different media sources, but mind you its very old, the actual figure could be doubled by now .

 
SalimBhai said:
https://religionnews.com/2021/07/07/exmna-the-cost-of-leaving-islam-for-american-muslims/Why are young Muslims leaving Islam
A new generation of educated Muslims is starting to question the fundamentals of their faith
Islam is facing a wave of desertion by young Muslims suffering from a crisis of faith

Hasan Suroor | Published 11.09.19, 11:41 AM
And it is not just an American or Western phenomenon. Even deeply conservative countries with strict anti-apostasy regimes like Pakistan, Iran and Sudan have been hit by desertions. The Saudis were taken aback when the American journal, The New Republic, revealed the scale of Muslim conversion to atheism in their country, and more widely in the Muslim world. The numbers were eye-popping, ranging from hundreds to thousands in some countries. The Editor-in-chief of FreeArabs.com says:

When I recently searched Facebook in both Arabic and English, combining the word ‘atheist’ with names of different Arab countries I turned up over 250 pages or groups, with memberships ranging from a few individuals to more than 11,000. And these numbers only pertain to Arab atheists (or Arabs concerned with the topic of atheism) who are committed enough to leave a trace online,’


(Invisible Atheists, Ahmed Benchemsi, The New Republic, 24 April 2015)

The journal cited a 2012, WIN/Gallup International poll which found that 5 per cent of Saudi citizens—more than a million people—self-identified as ‘convinced atheists,’ the same percentage as in the United States. ‘19 per cent of Saudis—almost six million people—think of themselves as “not a religious person.” In Italy, the figure is 15 per cent. These numbers are even more striking considering that many Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Sudan and Yemen, uphold the Sharia rule punishing apostasy with death,’ it pointed out.

It is claimed that the atheist-scientist Richard Dawkin’s God Delusion is the most downloaded book in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia. It is now being translated into Arabic and there are plans to offer it free to Arab readers. The trend is catching on despite the fact that in many Islamic countries, apostasy is punishable by death. Most Islamic countries oppose the universal declaration of human rights and have refused to sign it because it provides for the ‘freedom to change religion or belief.’

The exact figure of former Muslims may never be known as most remain in the shadows to avoid detection. Those who have ‘outed’ themselves say they live in permanent fear for their own lives and safety of their families. In Pakistan, preachers have called for the houses of apostates to be burned down. They communicate through anonymous online forums claiming tens of thousands of followers, and loose global networks under the umbrella nomenclature, ‘Ex-Muslims’ and ‘Muslim-ish.’ A Twitter campaign in Britain in 2015, had thousands of ex-Muslims from across the world tweeting their reasons for choosing to abandon their faith. These ranged from intolerance and inferior status of women to absence of freedom of thought and the idea of immutability of a seventh century doctrine. One -@Lib Muslim wrote: #ExMuslimBecause Misogyny, homophobia, stoning people to death, and killing apostates don’t suddenly become “respectable” when put in a holy book. (Ali A. Rizvi, Huffington Post, 23 November, 2015)

Oxford University academic Faisal Devji has argued that by retaining ‘Muslim’ in their name, ‘ex-Muslims are recognizing the theological character of their renunciation.’

The Muslims among whom I was raised in East Africa included many who refused to pray or fast and were openly critical of religion. It would never occur to them to renounce Islam and proclaim atheism as a new identity or mission, which would have catapulted them back into a theological narrative.

(Conversions from Islam in Europe and Beyond, Faisal Devji, The New York Times, 15 April, 2017)

The Economist narrated the story of an American Muslim boy of Somali descent, Mahad Olad, whose immigrant parents tricked him into going on a holiday with them to Kenya where they had made arrangements for him to go to a seminary to ‘restore’ his failing faith in Islam. He had no idea about his parents’ plans until he landed in Kenya.

As soon as he stepped off the plane on a family holiday to Kenya, Mahad Olad knew something was wrong. His mother, a ‘very devout, very conservative, very Wahhabi’ woman, was acting strangely—furtively taking phone calls when she thought he was out of earshot. His suspicions would soon be proved correct. Mr Olad’s family, Somali immigrants to America and devout Muslims, had discovered that he had not only renounced Islam but was also gay. The holiday was a ruse, an intervention to save his soul.

(The Economist, 15 March, 2018)

When he got wise of their plan to hand him over to the care of Muslim clerics who would ‘restore’ his faith, he got so frightened that he managed to escape. ‘In the dead of night he sneaked into his mother’s room, stole his passport and was whisked away by taxi to the embassy, which eventually returned him safely to America. He has not spoken to his family since,’ according to the above report.

Behind Olad’s story hangs a tale we don’t usually hear about: how Islam is facing a wave of desertion by young Muslims suffering from a crisis of faith. The story we normally hear is of an Islam growing from strength to strength, and how for all the phobia that exists around it, it remains the fastest growing religion with 1.6 billion followers across the world and acquiring new converts on an almost daily basis. What we don’t hear is that it is also being abandoned by moderate Muslims, mostly young men and women, ill at ease with growing extremism in their communities. The ranks of ex-Muslims is reported to be swelling. ‘As the number of American Muslims has increased by almost 50 per cent in the past decade, so too has the number of ex-Muslims,’ The Economist report said, citing a Pew Research Centre survey according to which 23 per cent of Americans raised as Muslims no longer identify with the faith. Most are young second-generation immigrants, but there are also older Muslims ‘married to devout Muslim spouses and driving children to the mosque to study the Koran, at weekends to cover up their apostasy.’

Simon Cottee, a British academic, has documented stories of many former Muslims in The Apostate: When Muslims Leave Islam. In each case, reasons for their decision differ, varying from religious bigotry and oppression, to violence in the name of Islam. Sometimes, as The Economist wrote in the 15 March, 2018 report, it could be a reaction to certain Quranic verses or the Hadith—the sayings of the Prophet Mohammad. ‘Often the verses that trigger this are controversial ones about slavery or gender that family members and imams cannot explain satisfactorily. Coming across the writings of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens sometimes has the same effect. Some chafe at sexism or homophobia,’ it reported.

According to Faisal Devji,

Whether the converts are repulsed by the violent forms Islam has taken in places like Syria and Afghanistan or are backing up their claims for asylum, the conversions occur quietly and rarely as a result of proselytism. Nor do they tend to be accompanied by any transformation in the appearance, behavior or language of the convert. Analyzing the news reports suggests that these conversions are characterized by multiple quotidian and ambiguous motives. (The New York Times, 15 August, 2017)

Brian Whitaker, a noted Middle East correspondent and the author of Arabs Without God, debunks the explanation that the phenomenon is a reaction to the violent acts being perpetrated in the name of Islam.

While researching my book…I spent a lot of time trying to find out why some Arabs turn to atheism and none of those I spoke to mentioned terrorism or jihadism as a major factor… That is not particularly surprising, because atheism is a rejection of all forms of religion, not just the more outlandish variants of it.

Benchemsi in his Invisible Atheists, New Republic article mentioned earlier, pointed out:

For the vast majority of Arab atheists, the road to disbelief begins…with personal doubts. They start to question the illogicalities found in the holy texts. Why are non-Muslims destined to hell, even though many of them are nice, decent people? Since God knows the future and controls everything, why would he put some people on the wrong path, then punish them as if he had nothing to do with their choices? Why is wine forbidden, yet virtuous Muslims are promised rivers of it in heaven?



It is a significant common thread running through most of the accounts of ex-Muslims I’ve read: that it was NOT an easy decision to make. Some mulled for years before they were able to make up their minds as they struggled to reconcile what they saw as the contradictions between all the nice things they were taught about Islam and how it was actually practised. Before jumping ship, most apostates claim they made sincere efforts to clarify their doubts and overcome their scepticism— some learned Arabic and went back to original texts to make sure for themselves that they hadn’t got it wrong. It was only when—on the basis of their own independent reading of the scriptures—they concluded that they could not honestly continue to cling on to their faith, that they reluctantly took the plunge.

Many are said to suffer intense emotional and psychological trauma afterwards in a sign of how strongly Muslims feel about their religious identity, and Islam’s dominant presence in their lives, as I have already discussed. The loss of that identity leaves them in a social and moral limbo. There is at least one documented case of suicide—a young British Muslim, Irtaza Hussain, felt so disorientated and depressed that he went to seed and ultimately took his own life.

The trend has been described as a ‘ticking bomb’ with a new generation of educated Muslims starting to question the fundamentals of their faith.
Click to expand...

I thought you were a protector of real news. :))

You think this rubbish you posted is credible?

Why dont you tell us in detail why you left the faith?
 
plenty of articles talking about the same issues. search for yourself............ However I seriously doubt you are capable of doing seeing you will believe anything.
 
Champ_Pal said:
White women are liberated ones and they convert to every religion out there. They do not get shunned or persecuted for that. From what I see, most are into Buddhism. They may not officially change their name to an Indian sounding one or wear a Buddhist attire, but all of their practices are Buddhist. Mostly the vegan types.
Click to expand...

I’ve only met a few Western Buddhists (men and women). It’s more a philosophy than religion here. Jibes well with quantum theory.

I like Buddhism, though I don’t practice it.
 
Robert said:
I’ve only met a few Western Buddhists (men and women). It’s more a philosophy than religion here. Jibes well with quantum theory.

I like Buddhism, though I don’t practice it.
Click to expand...

Eastern religions offer Westerners a new flavor of meditation and the concept of looking for God within oneself. There are various ways to do that and various schools have evolved with their own teachings. It gives the freedom to Westerners to explore without being judged. A very attractive concept for all newcomers.
 
Poseidon said:
heres a clip from different media sources, but mind you its very old, the actual figure could be doubled by now .

Click to expand...

A few points.
-> It is the fastest growing religion in the world and in the west because Muslims have a lot more babies than nonmuslims.
-> If you watch the video, they are saying, every year, 5000 or 10,000 people convert to Islam in various countries. Women convert more than men by 4 times. I can bet it on it, it is through marriage. Women have to convert through marriage. I know here 2 couples (Muslim-white) and the women converted for marriage.

There needs to be a stat displaying how many converted by their own research vs how many converted through marriage.

It would be nice to see how many are leaving Islam too, though many would remain silent over it.
 
Champ_Pal said:
A few points.
-> It is the fastest growing religion in the world and in the west because Muslims have a lot more babies than nonmuslims.
-> If you watch the video, they are saying, every year, 5000 or 10,000 people convert to Islam in various countries. Women convert more than men by 4 times. I can bet it on it, it is through marriage. Women have to convert through marriage. I know here 2 couples (Muslim-white) and the women converted for marriage.

There needs to be a stat displaying how many converted by their own research vs how many converted through marriage.

It would be nice to see how many are leaving Islam too, though many would remain silent over it.
Click to expand...

A few points.

Islam is the most practicsed single religion on the planet. Your confusing more Muslims with fastest growing religion, ie meaning more are converting. More people are converting to Islam than they are to any other faith.

Some are because of marriage but even so they often practice the faith. Others are because they believe its true.

Im always fascinated why people believing in Islam ticks of certain people from a certain nation and supporters of a certain ideology. Dont worry Muslims wont be taking over India again.
 
KingKhanWC said:
A few points.

Islam is the most practicsed single religion on the planet. Your confusing more Muslims with fastest growing religion, ie meaning more are converting. More people are converting to Islam than they are to any other faith.

Some are because of marriage but even so they often practice the faith. Others are because they believe its true.

Im always fascinated why people believing in Islam ticks of certain people from a certain nation and supporters of a certain ideology. Dont worry Muslims wont be taking over India again.
Click to expand...

Look at my post about conversion in USA. Islam is gaining as many converts as it is losing there. Net balance is Zero. So not only India, but USA is also in no danger of becoming Muslim majority.

Why do you think 22% of Muslims who leave Islam are becoming Christians?
 
Champ_Pal said:
Look at my post about conversion in USA. Islam is gaining as many converts as it is losing there. Net balance is Zero. So not only India, but USA is also in no danger of becoming Muslim majority.

Why do you think 22% of Muslims who leave Islam are becoming Christians?
Click to expand...

The Pew report is about American Muslims.

I think its fine in the US, its a modern materialistic nation whose main emphasis is for people to live in this world with as much wealth. Of course many succumb to this.
 
There is an impressive sense of community about Islam. With violence against women in the West at the moment seemingly being worse than ever, it’s no wonder that women want to feel secure, as well as exploring the spiritual side of religion.
 
Not at all aware about Islamic guidance on women so it's unfair to pass a judgement. But regardless what the book says, in my experience Muslim women are largely restricted in terms of education and professional life. Also they have much less independence and decision making power in general in middle class and lower middle class segment when compared to other religious communities. Upper middle class or rich families however are very much the same cutting across all religions.

So overall in reality Muslim women are not that well off when compared to their counterparts in others religions or cultures. This does not mean that Islamic teachings prescribe this kind of treatment but likely because Muslim men may have much more to do adhere to those guidelines.
 
James said:
There is an impressive sense of community about Islam. With violence against women in the West at the moment seemingly being worse than ever, it’s no wonder that women want to feel secure, as well as exploring the spiritual side of religion.
Click to expand...

The sheer level of on-line misogyny is terrifying. So many men hate women. And now this incel phenomenon. And this man Tate has been corrosive of a generation of boys. I fear for my girl-children.
 
Champ_Pal said:
Eastern religions offer Westerners a new flavor of meditation and the concept of looking for God within oneself. There are various ways to do that and various schools have evolved with their own teachings. It gives the freedom to Westerners to explore without being judged. A very attractive concept for all newcomers.
Click to expand...

Sure. Buddhism presents a positive morality where one is responsible for one’s own salvation, and it isn’t necessary to believe in God. There is an end to the psychological suffering that materialism brings, through meditation.

It’s also interesting that a growing number of Britons say their religion is Shamanism. That isn’t a religion, more a set of techniques. I have explored it to an extent. It goes way back into the history of the human species. Far older than the Abrahamic faiths and with a deep respect for nature.
 
Champ_Pal said:
A few points.
-> It is the fastest growing religion in the world and in the west because Muslims have a lot more babies than nonmuslims.
-> If you watch the video, they are saying, every year, 5000 or 10,000 people convert to Islam in various countries. Women convert more than men by 4 times. I can bet it on it, it is through marriage. Women have to convert through marriage. I know here 2 couples (Muslim-white) and the women converted for marriage.

There needs to be a stat displaying how many converted by their own research vs how many converted through marriage.

It would be nice to see how many are leaving Islam too, though many would remain silent over it.
Click to expand...

Islam is also growing through conversion, the religion gains more converts than it loses globally. Look at the religious switching section of the following Pew sesearch report

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
 
The advantage in the west is people can seek their own spiritual path that helps their growth without repercussions. If someone is interested in Hinduism, Islam, Christianity etc they can dabble in it for a while if it doesn’t fit what they are looking for then they can go back to whatever else. Doesn’t work the same way in our part of the world, someone converts or reconverts even more so when it comes to Islam in subcontinent, heads will roll (pun intended)

I have seen people finding Islam to kick habits like drugs, alcohol or regular crime in the west especially and that’s something you have to appreciate.
 
szrana007 said:
Islam is also growing through conversion, the religion gains more converts than it loses globally. Look at the religious switching section of the following Pew sesearch report

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
Click to expand...

Could you point to where it says that? I read the report . The main theme is Islam is growing due to high birth rate. They also discuss that these patterns can change as Muslims countries get more educated women will have less children. Also when they get educated there is a chance they will move away from religion . They only place I see conversions is

All told, the unaffiliated are expected to add 97 million people and lose 36 million via switching, for a net gain of 61 million by 2050. Modest net gains through switching also are expected for Muslims (3 million), adherents of folk religions (3 million) and members of other religions (2 million). Jews are expected to experience a net loss of about 300,000 people due to switching, while Buddhists are expected to lose nearly 3 million.
 
Islam gives women more rights than anything. In a world when women rights are being take away, thanks to woke Trans agenda, Islam protects women from such evil.

In west, women are supposed to meet certain beauty standards, eg. having a certain type of body, hair, lips, etc. In Islam, women aren’t under any pressure to meet the society’s beauty expectations and standards.

So no wonder, so many western women convert to Islam.

Islam is the only solution to combat corrupt woke liberal western lifestyle.
 
The_KING said:
Islam is the only solution to combat corrupt woke liberal western lifestyle.
Click to expand...

Why is that not a huge factor in fighting against Taliban for Pakistan or most Islamic countries?

Banning women’s employment and education using the name of Islam should be a bigger blasphemy than some idiot being offensive.

Anyways no problem in someone choosing a spiritual part that works for them.
 
It was a snow and my School was closed so I went to Juma and saw 2 young white kids learning to read Namaz for the 1st time. Only time will tell if they will hang around because as I said before the support networks don't exist and these guys feel lost. May Allah guide them
 
szrana007 said:
Islam is also growing through conversion, the religion gains more converts than it loses globally. Look at the religious switching section of the following Pew sesearch report

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
Click to expand...

Not because of converts. Islam grows mostly through having multiple kids. Growth by conversion is very minimum. If 5000 people convert every year and 3000 people leave every year, the net gain is only 2000. An insignificant amount when you consider the overall population of Islam runs in Billions.
 
Technics 1210 said:
So in a nutshell, Christians, Athiests, Hindus, are not having enough children.

Got it.
Click to expand...

Correct.

In general, the more prosperous and literate a country becomes, the lesser children it has. That has been the trend of humanity. In India, the most educated state (Kerala) has the least fertility levels .. compared with North India.
 
RexRex said:
Correct.

In general, the more prosperous and literate a country becomes, the lesser children it has. That has been the trend of humanity. In India, the most educated state (Kerala) has the least fertility levels .. compared with North India.
Click to expand...

If you say so.

So according to you, Islamic nations are illiterate, and India is literate despite the trend and culture in female babies are aborted/murdered in India, but you are free to believe what you want to believe I guess.
 
Technics 1210 said:
If you say so.

So according to you, Islamic nations are illiterate, and India is literate despite the trend and culture in female babies are aborted/murdered in India, but you are free to believe what you want to believe I guess.
Click to expand...

I think kerala which the poster stated has a very high literacy rate ..
 
Interestingly, Atheism should be dominating the world, with all the literacy, education, science and all, but still Atheism is playing catch up with Theism - since the dawn of mankind.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Interestingly, Atheism should be dominating the world, with all the literacy, education, science and all, but still Atheism is playing catch up with Theism - since the dawn of mankind.
Click to expand...

They do dominate in science. So you are welcome
 
Technics 1210 said:
If you say so.

So according to you, Islamic nations are illiterate, and India is literate despite the trend and culture in female babies are aborted/murdered in India, but you are free to believe what you want to believe I guess.
Click to expand...

Its not just literacy. Its the number of women in the work force. That percentage matters. Stay at home wives tend to have more kids. Cooking and cleaning for husband and having kids with him is her sole responsibility.

In India, most prosperous families have less kids. The illiterate conservative families have tons of them. I am sure it is the same in the rest of the Asian and African countries too.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Interestingly, Atheism should be dominating the world, with all the literacy, education, science and all, but still Atheism is playing catch up with Theism - since the dawn of mankind.
Click to expand...

It will soon overtake believers by the end of the century. It has picked up quite drastically in the past few decades.

Look at Western nations. They have pushed church to the corner and they are still doing pretty good.
 
Champ_Pal said:
Look at Western nations. They have pushed church to the corner and they are still doing pretty good.
Click to expand...

LOL @ doing good.

Crimes are increasing. Societies are going degenerate. Debts are rising. Economies are tanking. Everything is falling apart.
 
Technics 1210 said:
If you say so.

So according to you, Islamic nations are illiterate, and India is literate despite the trend and culture in female babies are aborted/murdered in India, but you are free to believe what you want to believe I guess.
Click to expand...


I didn't say that. I was just pointing out a link between literacy and fertility. You can decide if it's relevant here or not. The truth is perhaps more complicated.
 
Last edited:
Champ_Pal said:
It will soon overtake believers by the end of the century. It has picked up quite drastically in the past few decades.

Look at Western nations. They have pushed church to the corner and they are still doing pretty good.
Click to expand...

Not just doing good. Doing better than before . These people know that deep down. Hence living in a secular society .
 
sweep_shot said:
LOL @ doing good.

Crimes are increasing. Societies are going degenerate. Debts are rising. Economies are tanking. Everything is falling apart.
Click to expand...

Crime is way down from a century ago. So is hunger, education is up . Racism is down. Wonderful time to be alive.
 
Champ_Pal said:
It will soon overtake believers by the end of the century. It has picked up quite drastically in the past few decades.

Look at Western nations. They have pushed church to the corner and they are still doing pretty good.
Click to expand...

I don’t need to look at the West, I live in the West.

The world is not just the West, and if you think the West is doing well, then you have low standards.

Atheism will never catch up or overtake Theism, they thought they had a magic bullet with Darwin’s evolution nonsense, and it made no difference, in fact, it ended up reinforcing the belief in God.
 
sweep_shot said:
LOL @ doing good.

Crimes are increasing. Societies are going degenerate. Debts are rising. Economies are tanking. Everything is falling apart.
Click to expand...

Still a billion times better than Bangladesh.

So if west is so bad, what are you doing in Canada?
 
Technics 1210 said:
I don’t need to look at the West, I live in the West.

The world is not just the West, and if you think the West is doing well, then you have low standards.

Atheism will never catch up or overtake Theism, they thought they had a magic bullet with Darwin’s evolution nonsense, and it made no difference, in fact, it ended up reinforcing the belief in God.
Click to expand...

West is still the best out there. It offers the best quality of life and the freedom to explore your interests. People do not get judged based on their religion or race or sexual orientation. Now show me a land where all these things are better? The only nation I can think of is Japan.

The so called nations that uphold overbearing modesty in Asia and Africa are not enticing enough for the moral brigade to migrate to.
 
Champ_Pal said:
West is still the best out there. It offers the best quality of life and the freedom to explore your interests. People do not get judged based on their religion or race or sexual orientation. Now show me a land where all these things are better? The only nation I can think of is Japan.

The so called nations that uphold overbearing modesty in Asia and Africa are not enticing enough for the moral brigade to migrate to.
Click to expand...

All subjective, and once again, The West does not equal the entire world.

Why are Indians flocking to UAE instead of Amreeka/UK?
 
RexRex said:
I didn't say that. I was just pointing out a link between literacy and fertility. You can decide if it's relevant here or not. The truth is perhaps more complicated.
Click to expand...

No you were not.

I have decided, its relevant, since the topic is about the growth of Islam, and some have claimed this is due to the number of Children Muslims are having, you agreed with my tongue in cheek comment on how Christianity, Hinduism, and Atheism are not having enough children and your explanation is the higher the literacy the lower the fertility.

You are claiming the Islamic world is illiterate, by your own logic, just not brave enough to actually say it.
 
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