Dawah, Islamic Law, Punishments & Limits in Islam

[Farhan The Man]

[5:51] O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allāh guides not the wrongdoing people.

Ditto.

You have allegiance to a christian king. Voluntarily aligned to judeo-christian way of life. And funding the very existence of a jewish homeland. It's a drip addiction you can't cut yourself off from lest you lose worldly privilege.

You are the "evildoer" that islamic god refuses to guide, hence astray from righteousness.

 

[Vikram1989]

[5:51] O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allāh guides not the wrongdoing people.

What if a Muslim marries Christian /Zionist /hindu.should the Muslim kill their spouse or they should be too killed? I know quite a few examples of marriage.

What if a Muslim attends a concert of christian and that christian helps Israel?.

What if Israel invests in Muslim company stocks and use that for killing Muslims or Christians or Hindus? Which killing is correct as per u?

U have previously thrown ur toys and not dared to answer the below question.

Can a person convert dead people into Islam?.Tipu ordered a royal decree to convert the dead people in the war.attached tipu Sultans decree

@Farhan The Man

 

[LordJames]

What if a Muslim marries Christian /Zionist /hindu.should the Muslim kill their spouse or they should be too killed? I know quite a few examples of marriage.

What if a Muslim attends a concert of christian and that christian helps Israel?.

What if Israel invests in Muslim company stocks and use that for killing Muslims or Christians or Hindus? Which killing is correct as per u?

U have previously thrown ur toys and not dared to answer the below question.

Can a person convert dead people into Islam?.Tipu ordered a royal decree to convert the dead people in the war.attached tipu Sultans decree

@Farhan The Man

Nobody should be killed by individuals at all! Killing a person unjustly is like killing the whole of humanity and saving a life is like saving humanity.

[5:32] That is why We ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity. ˹Although˺ Our messengers already came to them with clear proofs, many of them still transgressed afterwards through the land.

Nobody has the right to kill anyone (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic etc) and if an (individual) Muslim does it then they should be charged, tried under the law and punished appropriately. In Islamic law, they should be tried and given the death penalty for taking the law in their hands. If Muslims in Pakistan (or elsewhere) are killing or harming anyone (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic etc) based on religion, creed or ideology then it is against Islam.

Nobody can convert anyone dead or alive, anyone who converts to Islam does so from there own free will therefore necessities the person being alive.

[2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood. So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

The screenshot is FAKE and Tipu Sultan never issued any such order and any conversion to Islam against someone's will by anyone (at anytime in history) is invalid based on principles in the Qu'raan. If you are able to produce some evidence of forced conversion which is accurate then any such edict would be against Islam and Islamically invalid and the person issuing any such edict would be sinful, no matter whoever issued it or acted upon it.
Not here to defend any unIslamic actions of Tipu Sultan or Aurangzeb or anyone, please bring factual issues to light and whatever their mistakes were, will be happy to call them out but Tipu Sultan or Aurangzeb never force converted anyone because they knew that it is invalid, unIslamic and sinful.

Our job is only to speak the truth and be honest and present the facts. We are unable to can't cure dishonesty, lying, deception and hatred.
Once again, bring mistakes forward which are contradictory to Islam and will be happy to call them out, not here to defend every single Muslim unjutsly and wrongly, if my son does something wrong then he does something wrong.

[4:135] O believers! Stand firm for justice as witnesses for Allah even if it is against yourselves, your parents, or close relatives. Be they rich or poor, Allah is best to ensure their interests. So do not let your desires cause you to deviate ˹from justice˺. If you distort the testimony or refuse to give it, then ˹know that˺ Allah is certainly All-Aware of what you do

 

[Vikram1989]

Nobody can convert anyone dead or alive, anyone who converts to Islam does so from there own free will therefore necessities the person being alive.



The screenshot is FAKE and Tipu Sultan never issued any such order and any conversion to Islam against someone's will by anyone (at anytime in history) is invalid based on principles in the Qu'raan. If you are able to produce some evidence of forced conversion which is accurate then any such edict would be against Islam and Islamically invalid and the person issuing any such edict would be sinful, no matter whoever issued it or acted upon it.
Not here to defend any unIslamic actions of Tipu Sultan or Aurangzeb or anyone, please bring factual issues to light and whatever their mistakes were, will be happy to call them out but Tipu Sultan or Aurangzeb never force converted anyone because they knew that it is invalid, unIslamic and sinful.

Why it's fake source.i posted the source in the footnotes of above screenshot.it's from a letter written by tipu to his deputy. its from 1811 book source The original letter is there in Bombay Asiatic society. .I am posting one more source from islamic culture volume 14 , page no 148 .( written by mahmud bari) Author mentioned tipu converted 10 lakhs and built 2227 mosques.do u think 10 lakhs were converted on their own will. i have attached one more screenshot of the inscription on the fort wall to kill all the infidels and make the region pure.

 

[LordJames]

Why it's fake source.i posted the source in the footnotes of above screenshot.it's from a letter written by tipu to his deputy. its from 1811 book source The original letter is there in Bombay Asiatic society. .I am posting one more source from islamic culture volume 14 , page no 148 .( written by mahmud bari) Author mentioned tipu converted 10 lakhs and built 2227 mosques.do u think 10 lakhs were converted on their own will. i have attached one more screenshot of the inscription on the fort wall to kill all the infidels and make the region pure.

Please write properly so you can be understood, don't let your emotions get the better of you. All of your questions are already answered but let me repeat.

1. These letters are fake and documented here in the book available in Amazon. I will put a screenshot of the book which answers why these are FAKE in detail.
2. According to conservative estimates, 20,000 people convert to Islam in America and Instead of arguing with the numbers (lets say 10K instead of 20K), these people convert without force so large numbers do convert without being forced.
3. EVEN if Tipu Sultan (or anyone else did force convert people which they didn't), it is against Islamic principles and a sin.

Nobody can convert anyone dead or alive, anyone who converts to Islam does so from there own free will therefore necessities the person being alive.

2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood. So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

Please read, understand, investigate, pick apart and keep the conversation on the topic. Ask a 1000 questions but read.

 

[Vikram1989]

Please write properly so you can be understood, don't let your emotions get the better of you. All of your questions are already answered but let me repeat.

1. These letters are fake and documented here in the book available in Amazon. I will put a screenshot of the book which answers why these are FAKE in detail.
2. According to conservative estimates, 20,000 people convert to Islam in America and Instead of arguing with the numbers (lets say 10K instead of 20K), these people convert without force so large numbers do convert without being forced.
3. EVEN if Tipu Sultan (or anyone else did force convert people which they didn't), it is against Islamic principles and a sin.

Nobody can convert anyone dead or alive, anyone who converts to Islam does so from there own free will therefore necessities the person being alive.

Please read, understand, investigate, pick apart and keep the conversation on the topic. Ask a 1000 questions but read.

So fort wall inscription written on his command and his own handwritten letter in farsi are not trusted sources.

 

[LordJames]

So fort wall inscription written on his command and his own handwritten letter in farsi are not trusted sources.

Forgeries.

EVEN if Tipu Sultan (or anyone else did force convert people which they didn't), it is against Islamic principles and a sin. So even if you and I disagree over a historical Account you are pointing out an error of a human being and humans being mistakes.

Let me make it even simpler for you.

If someone is driving while drunk then the person is guilty because he is breaking the law.​

So if Tipu Sultan or Aurangzeb did something then they are at fault for breaking the commandments of Islam, they are not Prophets of Islam or definitions of Islam.

When a Hindu rapes someone, is it the Hindu or Hinduism to blame?

 

[Vikram1989]

Forgeries.

Anything negative is forgery .

 

[sweep_shot]

Sanghis are still salty about Mughals. Hilarious.

Give it a rest. This is 2025.

While countries like China and Japan are focusing on present and future, sanghis are focusing on Mughals.

 

[LordJames]

So fort wall inscription written on his command and his own handwritten letter in farsi are not trusted sources.

I can't reply to your last post so replying here.

No, everything related to Mughuls is not forgery, drop the hate and read what is being written. Ask a 1000 questions but read and then respond to what is being written.

• Tipu Sultan is not Mughul but doesn't matter for your argument.
• IF you present something from any Mughuls (Aurangzeb) or even Tipu Sultan or any Muslim then that action contradicts the principles of Islam and the person is a sinner and violated Islam.

Let me ask you again:

If a Hindu commits rape, is it the fault of Hindu or Hinduism?

 

[Vikram1989]

I can't reply to your last post so replying here.

No, everything related to Mughuls is not forgery, drop the hate and read what is being written. Ask a 1000 questions but read and then respond to what is being written.

• Tipu Sultan is not Mughul but doesn't matter for your argument.
• IF you present something from any Mughuls (Aurangzeb) or even Tipu Sultan or any Muslim then that action contradicts the principles of Islam and the person is a sinner and violated Islam.

Let me ask you again:

If a Hindu commits rape, is it the fault of Hindu or Hinduism?

Has hindu raped someone in the name of religion or desire?.all Ur mentioned names sid heinous acts in the name of religion and they firmly believed it for the betterment of the religion .drop ur blind defence. U dont want to accept any other book or narrative other than a green tinted lens.whats botheringg you to accept hand written farsi letter by the tipu ? Is it difficult for u to accept?

 

[bk19xsa]

Forced conversions would rarely work or didn't happened as much as people biased against the conversions say.

Belief is a choice—something personal, not just a product of where you’re born or what’s shoved down your throat.

Belief is a Choice, Not a Birthright

Belief isn’t something you automatically inherit like eye color. Even if you grow up in a religion or ideology, you still have to *choose* to buy into it. How many people born into something ditch it later? Tons.

Worldwide, you’ve got:

- Kids raised Christian who turn atheist because they see through the contradictions.

- Muslims who bounce because the rules don’t vibe with their emotions.

- Hindus, Buddhists, whatever—same deal. People walk away all the time.

That alone tells us something: being born into a system doesn’t lock you in. You have to believe it for it to stick, and plenty don’t.

If forced conversions were this unstoppable machine, you’d see way fewer people bailing on their birth religion. But they do, in droves. So yeah, belief’s personal—force can’t seal the deal.

Forced Conversions: Overblown and Shaky

Forced conversions either didn’t happen that much or weren’t effective, and the historical evidence backs this up.

History’s got examples of people being strong-armed into religions, sure, but did it work long-term? Not really.

Check -

- Spanish Inquisition: Jews and Muslims got forced into Christianity or faced death. Some converted on paper but kept their old faiths on the down-low—crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims. Over time, some descendants bought into Christianity, but others didn’t or just ditched religion entirely. Force got the ball rolling, but it didn’t guarantee genuine belief.


- Islam in India: Some conversions were by the sword, but a lot were voluntary or just practical—better taxes, social perks, whatever. Islam’s still there today not because of force but because people integrated it into their lives and chose it.

And here’s the kicker: when force *is* the main play, people push back. History’s littered with revolts:

- Medieval peasants flipping out against feudal lords.

- Colonized folks fighting European overlords.

- Civil rights crews tearing down oppressive status quos.

If forced conversions were super effective, you wouldn’t see all that resistance. People don’t just sit there and take it—they rebel when ****’s forced on them.

So yeah, the idea that force built these big religions? Overblown.

What really worked was the religion and its rulers making it *appealing*—stability, community, a sense of purpose. That’s what gets people to like it and stick with it, not some dude with a sword.

Nazism: Proof Force Isn’t Everything

After WWII, Nazism got crushed—outlawed, leaders prosecuted, death penalties handed out. If force was what kept ideologies alive, that should’ve been the end of it. But nope, plenty of people stayed Nazi in their heads, and neo-Nazism’s still a thing today. Why?

Because:

- Some genuinely believed the garbage—force didn’t make them; they vibed with it.

- Underground groups and later online echo chambers kept it breathing.

- It tapped into fears and anger that don’t die easy.

That shows you: ideologies don’t need force to survive—they need believers who *want* it. If forced conversions were the magic bullet, Nazism would’ve vanished when the Third Reich did. Instead, it’s still lurking because people chose it, not because they were made to.

The Real Deal: Buy-In Beats Force

Forced conversions? They’re a messy, overhyped tactic that don’t work like people think. Sure, they might kickstart something—scare a few folks into line—but they don’t lock in belief.

What spreads a religion or ideology is when people see value in it:

- Social perks (community, identity).

- Pragmatic wins (safety, prosperity).

- Spiritual hooks (hope, meaning).

If kids grow up in a religion without being force-fed resentment or some “truth” about their past, and they end up digging it, that’s not force—that’s them choosing it.

You can’t have it both ways: either it’s coerced, or it’s real.

The fact that so many ditch their birth religion proves force ain’t the glue. Ideologies stick when people buy in, not when they’re beaten into it.

History’s full of people saying “nah” to forced systems.

The religions and ideas that last? They’re the ones people actually liked, not the ones rammed down their throats.

 

[LordJames]

Forced conversions would rarely work or didn't happened as much as people biased against the conversions say.

Belief is a choice—something personal, not just a product of where you’re born or what’s shoved down your throat.

Belief is a Choice, Not a Birthright

Belief isn’t something you automatically inherit like eye color. Even if you grow up in a religion or ideology, you still have to *choose* to buy into it. How many people born into something ditch it later? Tons.

Worldwide, you’ve got:

- Kids raised Christian who turn atheist because they see through the contradictions.

- Muslims who bounce because the rules don’t vibe with their emotions.

- Hindus, Buddhists, whatever—same deal. People walk away all the time.

That alone tells us something: being born into a system doesn’t lock you in. You have to believe it for it to stick, and plenty don’t.

If forced conversions were this unstoppable machine, you’d see way fewer people bailing on their birth religion. But they do, in droves. So yeah, belief’s personal—force can’t seal the deal.

Forced Conversions: Overblown and Shaky

Forced conversions either didn’t happen that much or weren’t effective, and the historical evidence backs this up.

History’s got examples of people being strong-armed into religions, sure, but did it work long-term? Not really.

Check -

- Spanish Inquisition: Jews and Muslims got forced into Christianity or faced death. Some converted on paper but kept their old faiths on the down-low—crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims. Over time, some descendants bought into Christianity, but others didn’t or just ditched religion entirely. Force got the ball rolling, but it didn’t guarantee genuine belief.


- Islam in India: Some conversions were by the sword, but a lot were voluntary or just practical—better taxes, social perks, whatever. Islam’s still there today not because of force but because people integrated it into their lives and chose it.

And here’s the kicker: when force *is* the main play, people push back. History’s littered with revolts:

- Medieval peasants flipping out against feudal lords.

- Colonized folks fighting European overlords.

- Civil rights crews tearing down oppressive status quos.

If forced conversions were super effective, you wouldn’t see all that resistance. People don’t just sit there and take it—they rebel when ****’s forced on them.

So yeah, the idea that force built these big religions? Overblown.

What really worked was the religion and its rulers making it *appealing*—stability, community, a sense of purpose. That’s what gets people to like it and stick with it, not some dude with a sword.

Nazism: Proof Force Isn’t Everything

After WWII, Nazism got crushed—outlawed, leaders prosecuted, death penalties handed out. If force was what kept ideologies alive, that should’ve been the end of it. But nope, plenty of people stayed Nazi in their heads, and neo-Nazism’s still a thing today. Why?

Because:

- Some genuinely believed the garbage—force didn’t make them; they vibed with it.

- Underground groups and later online echo chambers kept it breathing.

- It tapped into fears and anger that don’t die easy.

That shows you: ideologies don’t need force to survive—they need believers who *want* it. If forced conversions were the magic bullet, Nazism would’ve vanished when the Third Reich did. Instead, it’s still lurking because people chose it, not because they were made to.

The Real Deal: Buy-In Beats Force

Forced conversions? They’re a messy, overhyped tactic that don’t work like people think. Sure, they might kickstart something—scare a few folks into line—but they don’t lock in belief.

What spreads a religion or ideology is when people see value in it:

- Social perks (community, identity).

- Pragmatic wins (safety, prosperity).

- Spiritual hooks (hope, meaning).

If kids grow up in a religion without being force-fed resentment or some “truth” about their past, and they end up digging it, that’s not force—that’s them choosing it.

You can’t have it both ways: either it’s coerced, or it’s real.

The fact that so many ditch their birth religion proves force ain’t the glue. Ideologies stick when people buy in, not when they’re beaten into it.

History’s full of people saying “nah” to forced systems.

The religions and ideas that last? They’re the ones people actually liked, not the ones rammed down their throats.

I understand the urge to engage in hypothetical arguments but on the specific case being quoted...

There is no evidence of General Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary on the orders of Tipu Sultan forcing Coorgis to convert by force to Islam because he didn't even win so couldn't have converted anyone in that battle

The whole argument of "converting by force" is ridiculous because in this scenario Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary has no force to convert because he never won

1. Colonel William KilkPatrick translated a forgery but to be honest (at least included a note to indicate his doubt) about the letter
2. Hindutva took the letter, skipped the note and skipped the research and submitted to White Colonial Masters.

Forced conversions are not valid in Islam so there is no hypothetical discussions, see last line in this response.

Has hindu raped someone in the name of religion or desire?.all Ur mentioned names sid heinous acts in the name of religion and they firmly believed it for the betterment of the religion .drop ur blind defence. U dont want to accept any other book or narrative other than a green tinted lens.whats botheringg you to accept hand written farsi letter by the tipu ? Is it difficult for u to accept?

Hindutva lying and deception on Tipu Sultan

There is no authentic handwritten letter of Tipu Sultan.

1. Tertiary Source: You are quoting from "Tipu As he Really Was" by Gajanan Bhaskar Mehendale and he does two things:
   1. Secondary Source: Gajanan never quotes the primary source but relies on "Bombay: Asiatic Society" 1811 prints
   2. Note Skipped: Gajanan deceptively never quotes the original (primary) source and therefore he doesn't mention the note, see next
2. Prime Source: "Select Letters of Tippo Sultan" The letter which quote is CXVII (page 150) and the observations of the author is on the next page (151)

Why is this letter a forgery?

I am going to simplify this for you from different soirces, read, undcerstand and then ask question on the topic. Drop the hatred for 10 minutes and engage in an Academic discussion.

1. Tipu Sultan (after repeated rebellion of the Coorgis) appointed General Janulabdin (Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary or Zain-ul-Abedin Shustri) to be the Faujdar
2. Colonel William KilkPatrick (Author) himself does not know which "Zain-ul-Abidin" this letter is referred to (see notes in primary source link, page 151) before explaining the Persian in the notes. Gajanan deceptively skips all of this!

Then there are further problems with your "forged letter" and source is Tipu Sultan and let me point you to page 86.

1. Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary faced only 4,000 to 5,000 Coorgis
2. Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary failed to subdue the rebellion

Summary in simple two lines:

1. Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary did not win
2. Therefore Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary could not possibly convert anyone because he never won!

Colonel William KilkPatrick (White Colonial Master of Hindutva) has inserted a forgery into his book which makes no sense!

Gajanan Bhaskar Mehendale (the rabid Hindutva) has fooled Hindutva and they are low-IQ to not be able to spend 5-10 minutes of research themselves to identify a forgery!

Saar, but Saar, the White man has translated persian Saar so you see you must believe us.

What is Authentic?
The Masjid-a-Ala (grand Mosque) is still mainatained by Indian Government and there are inscription authenticated and mainatained by Indian Government on the south wall of the Mosque in Arabic and Persian and is says nothing about the conversion:

Arabic:

Khaulahu Ta'ala :—va anzalallazina zaharuhum min ahhlkitabi min syasihim va khazafa fi khulu-bihimurroba farikhan takhtaliin va tusiruna farikhan va avarasakum arzahum va diyarahum va amvalahum va arzan lam tatavha va kanallahu 'ala kuUi shayin khadira.

Persian:

B'adaz fararl kuffar hukm shud ki baharbi Bani Khuraiza ravand ki 'ahad shikasta madadgariahzab namudand : lashkari Islani ishanra panzda shaban roz mahasaru kardand va kar bar ishan tang shud va bar hukrai S'ad-bin-M'aaz farod amadand. Va Sad hukra kavd ki mardani ishanra bakushand va zanan va kodakani ishanrA Itarda girand va amvali ishanra bar Musalmanan khismat kuuand. Hazrat risalat, salairahii 'alailii va sallani, farmiid ki ai S'acl M'aaz hukm karJi ki KhiiclaiT'aala bar balai haft asman hukm karda biid: va Hakh Subhanahu azin vakh'aa khabar midehad: va farmud farod avard Khuda ananra ki yiiri dadand ahzabra va ham pushti ishan gashtand az ahl Tavarait y'ani Yahud kharizara farod avard az kharahai ishan va afgand dar dilhai ishan tars az paighambar va lashkari u giirohera ki kushidande noh-sad tan bekushtand ya haft-sad tan va barda migired gurohera y'ani farzandan va zauani ishanra va miras dad shumara zamini ishan y'ani mazar'ay va hadaikh va sarahai ishan y'ani liusun va khaVa va malhai ishan az nak'aud va amt'aa va niav'ashi va arazi va bashaina dLid zamin ra ki berafta aid daian ya maUki an buded murad Khaiber ast ya dayaro Piiun ya mumahki Faris: va gufta and har zaminke bahavze Islam darayed ta khiyamat dariu dakhil ast: va hast Khuda bar har chiz khadir va tuvana.

Having said all that about the incident. There is no forced conversion in Islam and here is a research paper on the topic.

 

[LordJames]

[4:135] O believers! Stand firm for justice as witnesses for Allah even if it is against yourselves, your parents, or close relatives. Be they rich or poor, Allah is best to ensure their interests. So do not let your desires cause you to deviate ˹from justice˺. If you distort the testimony or refuse to give it, then ˹know that˺ Allah is certainly All-Aware of what you do

This thread is about Islam — not just the Mughals. I'm not an expert on Islam, the Mughals, or anything else, but I see this as a valuable opportunity to research, reflect, and learn. I truly appreciate everyone who shares their knowledge and perspectives here — thank you for helping me grow.

Thank You.

 

[Farhan The Man]

anyone else did force convert people which they didn't, it is against Islamic principles and a sin.

No it's not. A sin.

You are encouraged to fight disbelievers until they submit.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled - 9:29​

https://quran.com/at-tawbah/29​

 

[Vikram1989]

I understand the urge to engage in hypothetical arguments but on the specific case being quoted...

There is no evidence of General Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary on the orders of Tipu Sultan forcing Coorgis to convert by force to Islam because he didn't even win so couldn't have converted anyone in that battle

The whole argument of "converting by force" is ridiculous because in this scenario Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary has no force to convert because he never won

1. Colonel William KilkPatrick translated a forgery but to be honest (at least included a note to indicate his doubt) about the letter
2. Hindutva took the letter, skipped the note and skipped the research and submitted to White Colonial Masters.

Forced conversions are not valid in Islam so there is no hypothetical discussions, see last line in this response.



Hindutva lying and deception on Tipu Sultan

There is no authentic handwritten letter of Tipu Sultan.

1. Tertiary Source: You are quoting from "Tipu As he Really Was" by Gajanan Bhaskar Mehendale and he does two things:
   1. Secondary Source: Gajanan never quotes the primary source but relies on "Bombay: Asiatic Society" 1811 prints
   2. Note Skipped: Gajanan deceptively never quotes the original (primary) source and therefore he doesn't mention the note, see next
2. Prime Source: "Select Letters of Tippo Sultan" The letter which quote is CXVII (page 150) and the observations of the author is on the next page (151)

Why is this letter a forgery?



What is Authentic?
The Masjid-a-Ala (grand Mosque) is still mainatained by Indian Government and there are inscription authenticated and mainatained by Indian Government on the south wall of the Mosque in Arabic and Persian and is says nothing about the conversion:

Arabic:



Persian:

Ur summary is wrong saar as much u try to mock me.

Intent is different than output.tipu wanted the dead also to be converted but the Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary never won.its like saying i gave money to kill my enemy but as my right hand got caught red handed am innocent. Colonel may not know who that guy but everyone later know who it is and content was not in question. As far as forgery, there is tipu Sultans own hand written book , multiple letters to Ottoman, maratha, nizam , british , nawab of arcot etc rule out any forgery. Graphology experts, historians are not as dumb to believe any crap letter as original. Mumbai Asiatic society was built in 1804 , so how do u tell it does not have any papers ? Do u have membership there to visit personally on weekdays and check the stuff out?.As per forced conversions of coorgs, even after zynab failed badly tipu again sent army again and got the conversion job done.dont try to hide the result. As per the forced conversion failed rebuttal attempt, there is a detailed conversion of Canara Christians by multiple French, British soldiers and pastors accounts .local church mentioned each and every person abducted and converted by tipu.only religion allows a jijiya tax to segregate others. Even now in pak , if Ahmedis are not allowed to pray publicly we can understand what happened in medieval years.

I know ur usual style of mocking before throwing the toys.

 

[LordJames]

Ur summary is wrong saar as much u try to mock me.

Intent is different than output.tipu wanted the dead also to be converted but the Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary never won.its like saying i gave money to kill my enemy but as my right hand got caught red handed am innocent. Colonel may not know who that guy but everyone later know who it is and content was not in question. As far as forgery, there is tipu Sultans own hand written book , multiple letters to Ottoman, maratha, nizam , british , nawab of arcot etc rule out any forgery. Graphology experts, historians are not as dumb to believe any crap letter as original. Mumbai Asiatic society was built in 1804 , so how do u tell it does not have any papers ? Do u have membership there to visit personally on weekdays and check the stuff out?.As per forced conversions of coorgs, even after zynab failed badly tipu again sent army again and got the conversion job done.dont try to hide the result. As per the forced conversion failed rebuttal attempt, there is a detailed conversion of Canara Christians by multiple French, British soldiers and pastors accounts .local church mentioned each and every person abducted and converted by tipu.only religion allows a jijiya tax to segregate others. Even now in pak , if Ahmedis are not allowed to pray publicly we can understand what happened in medieval years.

I know ur usual style of mocking before throwing the toys.

You quoted excerpts from a book quoting Tipu Sultan's letter to Zain-ul-Abidin, the events in the letter could not have happened!

Summary in simple two lines:

1. Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary did not win
2. Therefore Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary could not possibly convert anyone because he never won!

If you want to quote another incident with evidence, post your evidence because the letter which you quotes is a forgery. If you are now admitting that Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary failed and Tipu Sultan sent a second Army then why would Tipu Sultan write to a failed General who is no longer in command to make other convert? Surely, he will write to whoever is now in a command (according to you) position and not the General (who failed) that makes no sense!

You have provided zero authentic evidence of Tipu Sultan converting anyone! You have posted a single forged Account, discuss from evidence.

As I said, drop the random outbursts and provide authentic evidence and discuss the matter and most importantly read.

No it's not. A sin.

You are encouraged to fight disbelievers until they submit.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled - 9:29​

https://quran.com/at-tawbah/29​

1. Lie Number 1 (about beings "friends with Jews and Christians): Debunked here and here
2. Lie Number 2 (about Tipu Sultan writing to Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary to convert dead people): Debunked here

Lie Number 3:

[9:29]

1. Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,
2. until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

This verse isn't about grabbing a random disbeliever and making them submit. It is in a battle! Any nation in a battle will fight until the other side submits!

These verses were revealed at the battle (likely battle of Hunayn) and absolutely the Quraan commands to fight the disbelievers in a battle scenario until they submit.

There is nothing wrong with this verse when viewed in its context and once again and absolutely the Quraan commands to fight in a battle! Here is a full analysis of the verse which you posted

There is nothing to defend or be ashamed of, here in this verse. India and Pakistan just fought tooth and nail a few weeks ago.

You claim to have studied for 11 years in a Madrasa, so you should already know the answer — but we both know you’ll dodge it yet again. You've built a reputation not on knowledge or honesty, but on deflection, distortion, and intellectual cowardice. Every time you're confronted, you either misquote the Qur'an, butcher the translation, or selectively slice verses to serve your narrative — and then flee the moment real scrutiny begins. Your pattern is predictable: lie, derail, and pretend you’ve won something. It’s not scholarship; it’s shameless evasion.

Challenge: Since you claim to have studied 11 years in a Madrasah, let’s put that to the test. I challenge you to engage in a serious, source-based academic discussion on Qur'an 9:29 — using Islamic texts, classical tafsir, and the proper context. Prove, if you can, that this verse was revealed randomly and outside the context of battle. No diversions, no half-translations — just a straightforward, in-depth analysis. Let’s go

 

[Suleiman]

You quoted excerpts from a book quoting Tipu Sultan's letter to Zain-ul-Abidin, the events in the letter could not have happened!

Summary in simple two lines:

1. Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary did not win
2. Therefore Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary could not possibly convert anyone because he never won!

If you want to quote another incident with evidence, post your evidence because the letter which you quotes is a forgery. If you are now admitting that Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary failed and Tipu Sultan sent a second Army then why would Tipu Sultan write to a failed General who is no longer in command to make other convert? Surely, he will write to whoever is now in a command (according to you) position and not the General (who failed) that makes no sense!

You have provided zero authentic evidence of Tipu Sultan converting anyone! You have posted a single forged Account, discuss from evidence.

As I said, drop the random outbursts and provide authentic evidence and discuss the matter and most importantly read.

1. Lie Number 1 (about beings "friends with Jews and Christians): Debunked here and here
2. Lie Number 2 (about Tipu Sultan writing to Zain-ul-Abidin Shushtary to convert dead people): Debunked here

Lie Number 3:

[9:29]

1. Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,
2. until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

This verse isn't about grabbing a random disbeliever and making them submit. It is in a battle! Any nation in a battle will fight until the other side submits!

These verses were revealed at the battle (likely battle of Hunayn) and absolutely the Quraan commands to fight the disbelievers in a battle scenario until they submit.

There is nothing wrong with this verse when viewed in its context and once again and absolutely the Quraan commands to fight in a battle! Here is a full analysis of the verse which you posted

There is nothing to defend or be ashamed of, here in this verse. India and Pakistan just fought tooth and nail a few weeks ago.

You claim to have studied for 11 years in a Madrasa, so you should already know the answer — but we both know you’ll dodge it yet again. You've built a reputation not on knowledge or honesty, but on deflection, distortion, and intellectual cowardice. Every time you're confronted, you either misquote the Qur'an, butcher the translation, or selectively slice verses to serve your narrative — and then flee the moment real scrutiny begins. Your pattern is predictable: lie, derail, and pretend you’ve won something. It’s not scholarship; it’s shameless evasion.

Challenge: Since you claim to have studied 11 years in a Madrasah, let’s put that to the test. I challenge you to engage in a serious, source-based academic discussion on Qur'an 9:29 — using Islamic texts, classical tafsir, and the proper context. Prove, if you can, that this verse was revealed randomly and outside the context of battle. No diversions, no half-translations — just a straightforward, in-depth analysis. Let’s go

No matter what you tell him he is blinded by his own hatred that’s why he’s on an alternate account and is posting from UAE pretending to be Pakistani. You’d think for his hatred for Islam he’d be elsewhere. The 5x Azan daily and Eid takbeerat today must’ve made him depressed

We’ll gladly start a go fund me page for his mental wellbeing, but arguing with him is abusing a mental patient at this point.

At least the non-Muslims in this thread are up front and not hiding behind alter egos and made up pasts.

 

[Farhan The Man]

This verse isn't about grabbing a random disbeliever and making them submit. It is in a battle.

Tampering of qurani verses. Again. By you.

It doesn't say battle anywhere. Your "personal" likely scenarios don't apply to explicit "godly" injunctions. The murderous trigger is simply alternate beliefs of theirs vs yours.

But you aligned with christian king against palistini. munifiqat rules roost. By you.

 

[LordJames]

Tampering of qurani verses. Again. By you.

It doesn't say battle anywhere. Your "personal" likely scenarios don't apply to explicit "godly" injunctions. The murderous trigger is simply alternate beliefs of theirs vs yours.

But you aligned with christian king against palistini. munifiqat rules roost. By you.

Challenge: Since you claim to have studied 11 years in a Madrasah, let’s put that to the test. I challenge you to engage in a serious, source-based academic discussion on Qur'an 9:29 — using Islamic texts, classical tafsir, and the proper context. Prove, if you can, that this verse was revealed randomly and outside the context of battle. No diversions, no half-translations — just a straightforward, in-depth analysis. Let’s go

 

[Farhan The Man]

It's your assertion of wartime conditionality. Not mine.

Nevertheless, the only empirical matters is you voluntarily sided with a christian country and pledged allegiance to a christian king against palistini.

Consequently, god doesn't guide you for championing judeo-christian causes. Hence this appropriate qurani label for you as "wrongdoer".

 

[LordJames]

It's your assertion of wartime conditionality. Not mine.

Nevertheless, the only empirical matters is you voluntarily sided with a christian country and pledged allegiance to a christian king against palistini.

Consequently, god doesn't guide you for championing judeo-christian causes. Hence this appropriate qurani label for you as "wrongdoer".

I won’t entertain your childish whining after this. Say something meaningful and pertinent to the topic.

1. Write in English and clearly.
2. Respond to the actual issue.
3. Spare us the BS!

Challenge: Since you claim to have studied 11 years in a Madrasah, let’s put that to the test. I challenge you to engage in a serious, source-based academic discussion on Qur'an 9:29 — using Islamic texts, classical tafsir, and the proper context. Prove, if you can, that this verse was revealed randomly and outside the context of battle. No diversions, no half-translations — just a straightforward, in-depth analysis. Let’s go

​

 

[Farhan The Man]

I won’t entertain your childish whining after this.

You asked for a godly directive for religion-based discrimination. I quoted it. From quran.

You asked for godly directive for faith-based murder. I quoted it. From quran.

You self-labelled yourself as an evildoer. I agreed to it. From quran.

Apparently you are not happy with these outcomes.

 

[LordJames]

Challenge: Since you claim to have studied 11 years in a Madrasah, let’s put that to the test. I challenge you to engage in a serious, source-based academic discussion on Qur'an 9:29 — using Islamic texts, classical tafsir, and the proper context. Prove, if you can, that this verse was revealed randomly and outside the context of battle. No diversions, no half-translations — just a straightforward, in-depth analysis. Let’s go

What nonsense are you rambling on about, man???

You asked for a godly directive for religion-based discrimination. I quoted it. From quran.

You asked for godly directive for faith-based murder. I quoted it. From quran.

You self-labelled yourself as an evildoer. I agreed to it. From quran.

Apparently you are not happy with these outcomes.

Tampering of qurani verses. Again. By you.

It doesn't say battle anywhere. Your "personal" likely scenarios don't apply to explicit "godly" injunctions. The murderous trigger is simply alternate beliefs of theirs vs yours.

But you aligned with christian king against palistini. munifiqat rules roost. By you.

It's your assertion of wartime conditionality. Not mine.

Nevertheless, the only empirical matters is you voluntarily sided with a christian country and pledged allegiance to a christian king against palistini.

Consequently, god doesn't guide you for championing judeo-christian causes. Hence this appropriate qurani label for you as "wrongdoer".

 

[Farhan The Man]

this verse was revealed randomly and outside the context of battle.

Unlike you. I don't intend to tamper with quran.

You don't like what it says. Tough luck.