Dawah, Islamic Law, Punishments & Limits in Islam

[BouncerGuy]

I repeat. In empirical terms. Not theoretical.

To get you started here are some hints: healthy/fitter society, more scientists/doctors, cleaner environment, increased hygiene etc.

You need to quantify incremental benefit as before vs after metric.

How zakat is theoretical???

 

[Farhan The Man]

Once more.

What is the incremental benefit in quantifiable terms?

Let me help you again. Due to the creation of this islamic establishment, is there lesser poverty now? Less theft? Less crime? Safer populace?

Surely there must be some empirical benefit to pak society due to islam.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Or you dumb or acting like one, which Prophet are you talking about in case of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) he participated himself in 27 wars (Gazwas) and suffered serious wounds in battle of Uhad and faced severe attack in Battle of Hunain also

And on going to bed full, only a bigot with no knowledge of Islam could say this...he used to remain hungry for days in a week and that too regularly.

Check the following one Hadith among many
====
Ibn Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, would spend several nights in a row with an empty stomach, and his family would not find anything for dinner. Most of their bread was made from barley.

Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2360

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani

عَنْ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَبِيتُ اللَّيَالِي الْمُتَتَابِعَةَ طَاوِيًا وَأَهْلُهُ لَا يَجِدُونَ عَشَاءً وَكَانَ أَكْثَرُ خُبْزِهِمْ خُبْزَ الشَّعِيرِ

2360 سنن الترمذي كتاب الزهد باب ما جاء في معيشة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وأهله

125 المحدث الألباني خلاصة حكم المحدث صحيح في مختصر الشمائل

Why did you remove the bit of him tweaking decrees to consummate many times?

You reckoned that as an unjustifiable act and censored it.

Therein lies your demagogue. And the fallacy of your beliefs.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Why did you remove the bit of him tweaking decrees to consummate many times?

You reckoned that as an unjustifiable act and censored it.

Therein lies your demagogue. And the fallacy of your beliefs.

I can't allow your propaganda and the subsequent hiding. Distortions of fact. First answer questions in Dawah thread post #555

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Like always you just showed how little you know about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

Brief response
Zaynab bint Jahsh (RA) was the cousin but NOT daughter in law of Prophet.
You have no context, Prophet never threatened to divorce his pious wives, instead ALLAH (SWT) asked them to either chose the worldly comforts or blessings of an eternal life with Prophet (PBUH)
When Hazrat Aisha (RA) wed Prophet (PBUH), no one even objected to it even PAGANs of that time except some modern ones doing now and of lately

Detailed response

Don't worry I won't let you have any excuse.

And this great scholar is from India so you won't have Tariq Jameel red herring

This post

 

[Farhan The Man]

I can't allow your propaganda and the subsequent hiding. Distortions of fact. First answer questions in Dawah thread post #555

It’s an internet forum for god’s sakes. No one is hiding from you

Back to the unresolved premise: how is modi’s proclamation - as outrageous as it might seem - any different from any other prophet’s call of being the special one?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

You are in over your head in this. Calm down.

It’s an internet forum for god’s sakes. No one is hiding from you

Back to the unresolved premise: how is modi’s proclamation - as outrageous as it might seem - any different from any other prophet’s call of being the special one?

So Modi is your Prophet...I see

Make sense now why you get so upset defending him...

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Anyway did you see the YouTube video by an Indian Muslim scholars on WHY Prophet Muhammad PBUH married women known as Mothers of the Believers and what was the rationale behind it?

Plz have a look first before appearing prematurely to debate on said topic. @Farhan The Man.

Also the said video also mentions many restrictions which ONLY applied on Prophet Muhammad PBUH instead of all believers. Plz check
that too.

Videos on Post 555

 

[The Bald Eagle]

How zakat is theoretical???

A testimony of his lack of knowledge brother

 

[The Bald Eagle]

OK. Let's give this a go.

Name me one -- and I repeat one -- benefit islam brought about to pak society since rebrand from secular pakistan to IRP in 1971?

With empirical evidence please. No theology.

Sure

First for you information Pakistan ≠ Islam. So if Pakistan government is not implementing Islamic laws in its constitution in spirit then it's the flaw of government and state apparatus not Islam.

But still coming back to your "empirical evidence" as the term suggest you find some stats related to economy so check below not 1 but more "empirical evidences" in a nominal Islam following Pakistan:

Govt raises Rs3.4tr via sukuk, PIBs

Cumulative borrowing via PSX to reach Rs3.7tr by end of this year.

www.dawn.com

Rs1.15bn zakat fund goes to flood-hit areas

SWABI, Sept 5: Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Minister for Zakat and Ushr Zar Shaid Khan has said that the ministry has ...

www.dawn.com

Are Islamic Banks taking their customers for a ride?

Senate Committee grills SBP on Islamic banking practices amid soaring profits and record interest rates

profit.pakistantoday.com.pk

Have a nice day

 

[topspin]

So Modi is your Prophet...I see

Make sense now why you get so upset defending him...

I think this confirms what I suspected from the very beginning about this guy, an Indian non-Muslim who's used the name Farhan here but having read his posts, the guy doesn't know anything about Islam, so I don't think he's an ex-Muslim by any stretch.

He reminds me of a similar account, PakLFC, who was also an Indian, pretending to be a Pakistani.

 

[Farhan The Man]

So pakistan did not implement islam since 1971. Neither bhutto, nor zia, nor benazir, nor nawaz, nor immy.

So why did it go the extra mile to rebrand itself - in name only per your assertion- as islamic republic of pakistan?

Sure

First for you information Pakistan ≠ Islam. So if Pakistan government is not implementing Islamic laws in its constitution in spirit then it's the flaw of government and state apparatus not Islam.

But still coming back to your "empirical evidence" as the term suggest you find some stats related to economy so check below not 1 but more "empirical evidences" in a nominal Islam following Pakistan:

Govt raises Rs3.4tr via sukuk, PIBs

Cumulative borrowing via PSX to reach Rs3.7tr by end of this year.

www.dawn.com

Rs1.15bn zakat fund goes to flood-hit areas

SWABI, Sept 5: Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Minister for Zakat and Ushr Zar Shaid Khan has said that the ministry has ...

www.dawn.com

Are Islamic Banks taking their customers for a ride?

Senate Committee grills SBP on Islamic banking practices amid soaring profits and record interest rates

profit.pakistantoday.com.pk

Have a nice day

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So pakistan did not implement islam since 1971. Neither bhutto, nor zia, nor benazir, nor nawaz, nor immy.

So why did it go the extra mile to rebrand itself - in name only per your assertion- as islamic republic of pakistan?

Yeah that a pity that the governments in Pakistan never showed sincerity in implementing Islamic rules in it's true spirit. And naming it a Islamic republic was the least that they could do especially knowing that Pakistan was founded on the premise to implement Islamic principles

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I think this confirms what I suspected from the very beginning about this guy, an Indian non-Muslim who's used the name Farhan here but having read his posts, the guy doesn't know anything about Islam, so I don't think he's an ex-Muslim by any stretch.

He reminds me of a similar account, PakLFC, who was also an Indian, pretending to be a Pakistani.

We know everybody's true identity even of "Namoona" poster too but sometimes we don't disclose it before time

 

[Farhan The Man]

Yeah that a pity that the governments in Pakistan never showed sincerity in implementing Islamic rules in it's true spirit. And naming it a Islamic republic was the least that they could do especially knowing that Pakistan was founded on the premise to implement Islamic principles

Yea pity indeed.

If rebranding itself as islamic destroyed a nation as a failed economy that cannot secure its own people, shudder to think how much worse it could be by implementing islam.

In any case, thanks for confirming pakistan as a pretend country. Your words not mine.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Yea pity indeed.

If rebranding itself as islamic destroyed a nation as a failed economy that cannot secure its own people, shudder to think how much worse it could be by implementing islam.

In any case, thanks for confirming pakistan as a pretend country. Your words not mine.

Atleast we try and rather than claiming ourselves as "Secularists" with bigots and extremists at helm of affairs.

And if Islamic principles had been Pakistan's guiding source, then Pakistan would have been far ahead then regional oligarch dominated economies.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Atleast we try and rather than claiming ourselves as "Secularists" with bigots and extremists at helm of affairs.

And if Islamic principles had been Pakistan's guiding source, then Pakistan would have been far ahead then regional oligarch dominated economies.

Well you got terrorists and zealots as your spearheads.

Nevertheless, we are not munafiqs. We don’t pretend-play. Like your mazhab ke thekedar kind.

Again your words, not mine.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Well you got terrorists and zealots as your spearheads.

Nevertheless, we are not munafiqs. We don’t pretend-play. Like your mazhab ke thekedar kind.

Again your words, not mine.

You mean those terrorists who couldn't travel to EU and US before...yep shame he is still PM of some country infact he claims himself a prophet according to you. Your words, not mine

 

[Farhan The Man]

You mean those terrorists who couldn't travel to EU and US before...yep shame he is still PM of some country infact he claims himself a prophet according to you. Your words, not mine

I never said prophet. He said godsend.

Calm down.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I never said prophet. He said godsend.

Calm down.

prophet did occupy political head of table, and indeed set rules matching his benefit.

He neither went to bed hungry nor he participated in any wars himself.

In worldly terms, his rise was phenomenal from an shepherd to the one in charge of a doctrine. Similar from chaiwala to pm modi.

I ask again, what is the difference for either purported "godsend"?

Yes you never called him similar to Prophet

 

[Farhan The Man]

Yes you never called him similar to Prophet

i don’t believe claiming to be a godsend is legit. Either then or now.

Why do you believe one; and not the other?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

i don’t believe claiming to be a godsend is legit. Either then or now.

Why do you believe one; and not the other?

Futile to debate this with an atheist

 

[Farhan The Man]

Futile to debate this with an atheist

Name calling is 3rd grade.

Remember you volunteered to answer questions.

You can’t fold this quickly.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Name calling is 3rd grade.

Remember you volunteered to answer questions.

You can’t fold this quickly.

Aren't you an atheist who is a in actual a Hindutva fan boy who can't disclose it?

Ok If you are not one... although I know exactly what you are . Then plz enlighten us all about your religious standing so could answer you as per your religious beliefs or dogmas

 

[Farhan The Man]

Aren't you an atheist who is a in actual a Hindutva fan boy who can't disclose it?

Ok If you are not one... although I know exactly what you are . Then plz enlighten us all about your religious standing so could answer you as per your religious beliefs or dogmas

You are throwing monkey wrenches, hoping some stick.

You fear my identity because it destroys your illusion. I am almost like you. Clocked 11 years in madrassah education witnessing firsthand the hypocrisy.

Your foundation is flaky. Like loose sand.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

You are throwing monkey wrenches, hoping some stick.

You fear my identity because it destroys your illusion. I am almost like you. Clocked 11 years in madrassah education witnessing firsthand the hypocrisy.

Your foundation is flaky. Like loose sand.

Make someone else fool...I am student of deedat...like him know how to hook swaggarts and you are too naive to understand it.

 

[topspin]

We know everybody's true identity even of "Namoona" poster too but sometimes we don't disclose it before time

Yes I was wondering where Namoona was all this time but I guess it was only a matter of time before identity would be exposed.

Hope you don't mind me asking is this Farhan guy an alt account?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What do you mean cannot be negated ? The Quran says the Moon was split by the prophet. This is just not true at all. Never happened. Science tells you that.

Oh so you believe in science I see. Just read and enjoy this post then

First there are eye witnesses to it which reigns supreme over scientific evidence. As you love only hindu fellows so instead of naming a plethora of Muslim and Arab names. This former hindu king witnessed it himself and later embraced Islam just because of this miracle.

King Cheraman Perumal from Kerala

Thajuddin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Besides they were people from some other areas and civilization too that you could see from this very neutral slide share project presenting both sides arguments and facts

Did Prophet Muhammad Split the Moon?!

Did Prophet Muhammad Split the Moon?! - Download as a PDF or view online for free

www.slideshare.net

But since you have recently became a "Science man", check out the following and (many likewise available on Google) pics of cracks on moon

And fun fact scientists have four different theories on how they crack may have emerged ie they don't even have a consensus on this issue at all. And still to this date NO CONCLUSIVE evidence has been made by scientists to reject the moon splitting as mentioned in Holy Quran

And now they are claiming that moon might be shrinking.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna38773914

Anyways you can find many pics and corroborative evidence in above shared slides too which suggest that Islamic claim can be true.

Anyway most importantly, how come you guys claim yourself to be a science guy when in your own religion you Worship such gods who have the bodies of human but head of animals. Anyway unlike you guys I don't want to criticize and troll any religion. But when people keep digressing debate to deflect criticism of their non biological PM and instead chose to target Holy Prophet PBUH then sometimes it warrants to show them mirror.

 

[uppercut]

Oh so you believe in science I see. Just read and enjoy this post then

First there are eye witnesses to it which reigns supreme over scientific evidence. As you love only hindu fellows so instead of naming a plethora of Muslim and Arab names. This former hindu king witnessed it himself and later embraced Islam just because of this miracle.

King Cheraman Perumal from Kerala

Thajuddin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Besides they were people from some other areas and civilization too that you could see from this very neutral slide share project presenting both sides arguments and facts

Did Prophet Muhammad Split the Moon?!

Did Prophet Muhammad Split the Moon?! - Download as a PDF or view online for free

www.slideshare.net

But since you have recently became a "Science man", check out the following and (many likewise available on Google) pics of cracks on moon

And fun fact scientists have four different theories on how they crack may have emerged ie they don't even have a consensus on this issue at all. And still to this date NO CONCLUSIVE evidence has been made by scientists to reject the moon splitting as mentioned in Holy Quran

And now they are claiming that moon might be shrinking.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna38773914

Anyways you can find many pics and corroborative evidence in above shared slides too which suggest that Islamic claim can be true.

(I am going to only address the science aspect.)

A tidbit from your own "evidence" :

New research indicates cracks in the moon's crust that have formed as the interior has cooled and shrunk over the last billion years or so. That means the surface has shrunk, too, though not so anyone would notice just from gazing at it.


Find me a scientific article that says the cracks were a result of the Moon splitting into two parts ( as opposed to the moon shrinking over billions of years ).

Conversely just do some research on what would be the consequences to Earth if the moon were to break into two parts. Modern science has answers to that.

Anyway most importantly, how come you guys claim yourself to be a science guy when in your own religion you Worship such gods who have the bodies of human but head of animals. Anyway unlike you guys I don't want to criticize and troll any religion. But when people keep digressing debate to deflect criticism of their non biological PM and instead chose to target Holy Prophet PBUH then sometimes it warrants to show them mirror.

The difference is nobody tries to justify these Hindu beliefs using science like you are doing. There is a reason why they are categorized as religious beliefs and not scientific facts.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The difference is nobody tries to justify these Hindu beliefs using science like you are doing. There is a reason why they are categorized as religious beliefs and not scientific facts.

Yep that is the reason that you guys hesitate greatly to defend your religion because unfortunately you can't defend it. Conversely every physical phenomenon ideally should be defended and only Islam does it.

And of religious ideas that can't be left on science relates to metaphysical realm. But everybody could see the question I asked you above pertained to metaphysical or non metaphysical realm.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

(I am going to only address the science aspect.)

A tidbit from your own "evidence" :

New research indicates cracks in the moon's crust that have formed as the interior has cooled and shrunk over the last billion years or so. That means the surface has shrunk, too, though not so anyone would notice just from gazing at it.


Find me a scientific article that says the cracks were a result of the Moon splitting into two parts ( as opposed to the moon shrinking over billions of years ).

Conversely just do some research on what would be the consequences to Earth if the moon were to break into two parts. Modern science has answers to that.





The difference is nobody tries to justify these Hindu beliefs using science like you are doing. There is a reason why they are categorized as religious beliefs and not scientific facts.

Below is my post which you seemed to have not read in full ( This time even highlighted bits for you) and if you observe I had already answered your query but still there is an evidence from a source.

=====
The formation of cracks on the Moon's surface is primarily attributed to asteroid impacts and tectonic activity.
Asteroid Impacts: High-speed collisions with asteroids have fragmented the lunar crust, creating deep cracks that can extend up to 12 miles deep and laterally for hundreds of kilometers.

Tectonic Activity: As the Moon loses heat over billions of years, its interior shrinks, causing the surface to crinkle and form features like wrinkle ridges and lobate scarps.

These processes contribute to the Moon's complex geological history and ongoing changes.

And fun fact scientists have four different theories on how they crack may have emerged ie they don't even have a consensus on this issue at all. And still to this date NO CONCLUSIVE evidence has been made by scientists to reject the moon splitting as mentioned in Holy Quran

And now they are claiming that moon might be shrinking.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna38773914

Anyways you can find many pics and corroborative evidence in above shared slides too which suggest that Islamic claim can be true.

If you could access this research thesis then you could directly get answer to your question otherwise relevant information in abstract of the thesis too

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342232743_The_Evidence_of_the_Split_of_the_Moon

 

[uppercut]

Below is my post which you seemed to have not read in full ( This time even highlighted bits for you) and if you observe I had already answered your query but still there is an evidence from a source.

=====
The formation of cracks on the Moon's surface is primarily attributed to asteroid impacts and tectonic activity.
Asteroid Impacts: High-speed collisions with asteroids have fragmented the lunar crust, creating deep cracks that can extend up to 12 miles deep and laterally for hundreds of kilometers.

Tectonic Activity: As the Moon loses heat over billions of years, its interior shrinks, causing the surface to crinkle and form features like wrinkle ridges and lobate scarps.

These processes contribute to the Moon's complex geological history and ongoing changes.

If you could access this research thesis then you could directly get answer to your question otherwise relevant information in abstract of the thesis too

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342232743_The_Evidence_of_the_Split_of_the_Moon

Yes I read that article in its entirety. Show me where it says that a single event that happened about 1400 years ago was the cause for that crack.

If anything the timescale referred to in that article ( that you claim supports your belief ) is in the order of Billions of years.

Also did you research scientific explanation on what would be the impact to earth if the moon were to be split into two parts ?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Freedom of religion is enshrined in the Holy Quran itself. “Let there be no compulsion in religion”


With regards to Pakistanis treatment of minorities - its horrible at times and its rooted in false accusations of blasphemy. This is the root cause of all issues. You can compare it to the mob lynchings in India based on cow meat.

No one however would strip someone naked for wearing a santa claus costume. Because all saints of Christanity are our saints. Christmas if seen with the angle of celebration of Christ birth is our celebration as well.


Christians however are free to practise their religion. You probably are not aware but Muslims can even pray in a church. There are a lot of catholic schools. I myself was in a catholic school till 6th grade.

The problems with India and Pakistan are not the same thats why Indians need to stop equating with Pakistan in everything.

This will open a can of worms.

If everyone can choose and follow their own religion, why were the apostasy wars fought by Caliph Abu Bakr? Why didn't he leave people alone and say that to each his own? Why is conversion from Islam banned in so many Islamic nations?

You are lying when you say Muslims believe in Christian saints? You mean, Islam believes in Saint Paul and other saints and their miracles? If so, you become Catholics.

Musims can pray in Catholic churches. But can Christians pray in a Mosque? Let me know.

Indians will stop equating with Pakistan when the criticism comes from Pakistanis. You cannot sit on a high horse and preach others while your own nation is doing even poorer.

 

[Farhan The Man]

quran says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion”

hadees says: "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." — Sahih al-Bukhari, 917

Another contradiction. Small wonder chaos reigns supreme in islamic populace. What to do, more importantly what not to do.

 

[Justcrazy]

quran says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion”

hadees says: "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." — Sahih al-Bukhari, 917

Another contradiction. Small wonder chaos reigns supreme in islamic populace. What to do, more importantly what not to do.

I think the reference is wrong , Bukhari 917 is

Sahih al-Bukhari 917 - Friday Prayer - كتاب الجمعة - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

 

[Farhan The Man]

I think the reference is wrong , Bukhari 917 is

Sure thing. Defend this call for murder of innocents.

Sahih al-Bukhari 6878 - Blood Money (Ad-Diyat) - كتاب الديات - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

 

[The Bald Eagle]

View attachment 146171

Lol...just was revisiting the thread and realized its relevant eternally

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The punishment for Apostasy in an Islamic Caliphate is death.

The aversion, rolling eyes etc are mostly answered here, before making a counter argument spend 22 minutes and actually listen.

@Farhan The Man. Your questions have been answered already before in this thread. So plz come with something new

 

[Farhan The Man]

@Farhan The Man. Your questions have been answered already before in this thread. So plz come with something new

Mine is an indictment of an islamic decree to murder innocents.

Not a question requiring an answer. With a video posting.

Do attempt to comprehend the gravity of my brutal, inhumane belief system.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Once more.

What is the incremental benefit in quantifiable terms?

Let me help you again. Due to the creation of this islamic establishment, is there lesser poverty now? Less theft? Less crime? Safer populace?

Surely there must be some empirical benefit to pak society due to islam.

So no observed benefit to pak society since islam rebrand in 1971.

Still no takers? Calling all islamists here.

@MenInG @the Great Khan @Cpt. Rishwat @DeadlyVenom @aboveandbeyond @sweep_shot @BouncerGuy @The Bald Eagle @Justcrazy @topspin

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So no observed benefit to pak society since islam rebrand in 1971.

Still no takers? Calling all islamists here.

@MenInG @the Great Khan @Cpt. Rishwat @DeadlyVenom @aboveandbeyond @sweep_shot @BouncerGuy @The Bald Eagle @Justcrazy @topspin

I am not an Islamist so not sure my input would be of any use here. Not even a practicising Muslim actually.

 

[Justcrazy]

Sure thing. Defend this call for murder of innocents.

Sahih al-Bukhari 6878 - Blood Money (Ad-Diyat) - كتاب الديات - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

You just gave me the hadeeth , mention what is your objection to this?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Alhumdulilah, what a great and blessed exercise
====



In a remarkable acknowledgment of Islamic practices, Harvard University has declared that the posture of Sujood—the act of prostration performed in Muslim prayers—is the most effective natural remedy for back pain.

According to the study, the unique position of Sujood, where the forehead touches the ground, helps in improving spinal alignment, enhancing blood circulation, and relieving pressure on the lower back.

Researchers emphasized that the repetitive movement involved in daily prayers offers therapeutic benefits, making it a holistic exercise for physical and mental well-being

 

[uppercut]

Alhumdulilah, what a great and blessed exercise
====

In a remarkable acknowledgment of Islamic practices, Harvard University has declared that the posture of Sujood—the act of prostration performed in Muslim prayers—is the most effective natural remedy for back pain.

According to the study, the unique position of Sujood, where the forehead touches the ground, helps in improving spinal alignment, enhancing blood circulation, and relieving pressure on the lower back.

Researchers emphasized that the repetitive movement involved in daily prayers offers therapeutic benefits, making it a holistic exercise for physical and mental well-being

How is that posture different from a Yoga exercise posture ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

How is that posture different from a Yoga exercise posture ?

Oh...I didn't knew...does prostration is part of the Yoga exercise too?

 

[uppercut]

You just gave me the hadeeth , mention what is your objection to this?

so you don't see anything wrong with this verse? : https://quran.com/5/45-45


here is the translation as per that site:

"We ordained for them in the Torah, “A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth—and for wounds equal retaliation.” But whoever waives it charitably, it will be atonement for them. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the wrongdoers"

 

[sweep_shot]

Alhumdulilah, what a great and blessed exercise
====
View attachment 150136


In a remarkable acknowledgment of Islamic practices, Harvard University has declared that the posture of Sujood—the act of prostration performed in Muslim prayers—is the most effective natural remedy for back pain.

According to the study, the unique position of Sujood, where the forehead touches the ground, helps in improving spinal alignment, enhancing blood circulation, and relieving pressure on the lower back.

Researchers emphasized that the repetitive movement involved in daily prayers offers therapeutic benefits, making it a holistic exercise for physical and mental well-being

Subhan Allah.

I always feel great mentally and physically whenever I make a sujood.

 

[Justcrazy]

so you don't see anything wrong with this verse? : https://quran.com/5/45-45


here is the translation as per that site:

"We ordained for them in the Torah, “A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth—and for wounds equal retaliation.” But whoever waives it charitably, it will be atonement for them. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the wrongdoers"

What is the point in this verse?

 

[uppercut]

What is the point in this verse?

You should know that very well ( and also the problematic parts ). Lets see if you can spot it.

 

[Justcrazy]

You should know that very well ( and also the problematic parts ). Lets see if you can spot it.

Look the comment I made earlier was regarding a certain hadeeth.

Then you respond that with a verse. Here we come to discuss something , not play riddles.

If you have a question about that verse , just tell that. If I can answer I will , I will move on.

The amount of questions Muslims have answered , not one 10 % of that others answer.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Look the comment I made earlier was regarding a certain hadeeth.

Then you respond that with a verse. Here we come to discuss something , not play riddles.

If you have a question about that verse , just tell that. If I can answer I will , I will move on.

The amount of questions Muslims have answered , not one 10 % of that others answer.

Your ignorance -- and avoidance -- of violent scriptures calling for murder is obvious.

Sheep only lead themselves to the slaughterhouse by a violent dog. Keep at it.

Ending matches lifestyle.

 

[uppercut]

Look the comment I made earlier was regarding a certain hadeeth.

Then you respond that with a verse. Here we come to discuss something , not play riddles.

If you have a question about that verse , just tell that. If I can answer I will , I will move on.

The amount of questions Muslims have answered , not one 10 % of that others answer.

It was from the exact same link that you were responding to in post# 602 .... so stop the passive aggressive gymnastics and answer the question I posed in post# 606 ... I have even provided the English translation in that post.

And the question is very simple do you see anything wrong with that verse 5-45 or not ?

here it is again:

"We ordained for them in the Torah, “A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth—and for wounds equal retaliation.” But whoever waives it charitably, it will be atonement for them. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the wrongdoers"​

 

[LordJames]

You are so smart man. The first man was made from clay and the first female was made from his rib.

Unfortunately science called it bogus more than a century ago. We have moved on since then.

Make a thread of your claim that "Humans evolved from apes" as you claimed and lets discuss. If you are certain of your position then there shouldn't be a problem proving it.

Many forums have a way to report irrelevant posts so they can be deleted to prevent people from derailing thread and running their mouths unnecessarily.

What I believe in or don't believe in can be discussed in the your thread.

Lets go.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Make a thread of your claim that "Humans evolved from apes" as you claimed and lets discuss. If you are certain of your position then there shouldn't be a problem proving it.

Many forums have a way to report irrelevant posts so they can be deleted to prevent people from derailing thread and running their mouths unnecessarily.

What I believe in or don't believe in can be discussed in the your thread.

Lets go.

You make a thread. Why will I make?

You made a claim that God made Adam and Eve. Basically a stamp of approval for creation story. I said it is bogus. So you create a thread and I will discuss with you.
I will always call out anyone who posts fairytale stories as truth.

 

[LordJames]

You make a thread. Why will I make?

You made a claim that God made Adam and Eve. Basically a stamp of approval for creation story. I said it is bogus. So you create a thread and I will discuss with you.
I will always call out anyone who posts fairytale stories as truth.

The sign of a good human being is honesty, sticking to the truth and standing by your convictions.

The claim which you made here is "Humans evolved from Apes"

That is your claim, please have the courage to own your claim with science and try to defend it instead of trying to derail the conversation in multiple threads.

I will not answer anything else from you until you discuss your claim.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Prophet Abraham (Peace be upon Him) was a Muslim.



In the context of violence, educate about Arjuna from Hindu sources.

Go Ahead.

Abraham was your typical insuter of statues. The original idol breaker.

Imagine someone demolishes a mosque to prove that your God is not real. . He will be called Islamophobe, genocidal maniac and what not. I guess the rules do not apply for Abraham since you guys consider him a prophet.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Abraham was your typical insuter of statues. The original idol breaker.

Imagine someone demolishes a mosque to prove that your God is not real. . He will be called Islamophobe, genocidal maniac and what not. I guess the rules do not apply for Abraham since you guys consider him a prophet.

Yes @Champ_Pal everyone doing such act must be ready to be thrown in the fire like Prophet Abraham (PBUH). Agree

Although if someone doesn't consider himself a prophet then that is another case and must be dealt with law.

 

[Farhan The Man]

This one I want to do as well.
Astaghfirullah
La Hawla Wala Quwata iLllah Billah
And Salawat on Rasullulah SAW.
Daily.

Actions matter.

Not repeating verses. In a foreign language. Persistently.

Nowhere in quran does it mention that.

 

[Farhan The Man]

yes it does

View attachment 152849

Exact translation: "Allah and His angels bless the Prophet. Believers, invoke blessings and peace on him."

It doesn't say repeat verbally. Nor any specific text in arabic.

Who made up all these arabic texts for pakistanis to repeat? And not act on.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Thanks for the mentions, boyz.

Remember parroting arabic words ain't sufficient. It's not our language anyways.

Actioning upon is best. Albeit harder to accomplish.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Atleast we can understand the Arabic a bit instead of being an imposter.

Understanding "a bit" of your religion actually makes you the imposter.

I clocked in 11 years of madrassah education.

Safe to say you -- and your neighborhood mullah -- can't fool me with arabic anecdotes. I am well aware of the inherent fallacies of islam.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Don’t worry I’ve fallen a bit as well. Need to be more consistent regarding prayer times.

Your ritualistic act is unsustainable.

It's not just you. Look around. No one else can keep up with rituals either. Human psyche simply gets bored. And body shuns it.

In a language you understand, prophet also said: “He whose two days are equal, is a loser.” [Daiylami]

 

[Farhan The Man]

Arabic is not our language, but apparently English is your language

Never called english my language.

But judging by your signature, you have arabic propensity owing to deity reverence. But lack of arabic comprehension fails you. Hence you can't be one of them.

We are conversing in non-arabic here for a reason. There's no need for intermediaries. Both of us can't be deceived with messaging.

 

[Farhan The Man]

If you understood Islam correctly, you wouldn't have been anti-Islam.

Only those who don't understand Islam end up being apostates.

Anyway, Islam continues to grow despite the Islamophobes. Fastest growing religion in the world.

Reminds me of this Quranic verse:

"They want to extinguish the light of Allāh with their mouths, but Allāh will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it." (Surah As-saf: verse 8)

Your inclination to mislabel others as disbelievers, and yourself as a believer, reminds of this verse instead:

"Whether you speak secretly or openly—He surely knows best what is ˹hidden˺ in the heart." - Quran 67:13​

You are on loose footing here. In no position to judge.

 

[LordJames]

Understanding "a bit" of your religion actually makes you the imposter.

I clocked in 11 years of madrassah education.

Safe to say you -- and your neighborhood mullah -- can't fool me with arabic anecdotes. I am well aware of the inherent fallacies of islam.

Did you sleep through 11 years of Madrasah education that you don't understand basic and fundamental Arabic Grammar and you also don't know basic Tafseer of the Qur'aan 101?

yes it does

View attachment 152849

Command to recite any verse of the Quran:

وَرَتِّلِ القُرآنَ تَرتيلًا​

[73:4] and recite the Quran ˹properly˺ in a measured way.

Grammatical Analysis

The root verb (Past/Present Imperfect) tense رتَّلَ يُرتِّل which clearly is linked to reciting and is actually command verb رَتِّلِ

Which means...O Believers you are commanded (ORDERED) to recite verses of the Quran while beautifying your recitation and your tone and delivery


Command to send Salutations upon Prophet Muhammad ﷺ

إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَمَلائِكَتَهُ يُصَلّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ ۚ يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنوا صَلّوا عَلَيهِ وَسَلِّموا تَسليمًا​

[33:56] Indeed, Allah showers His blessings upon the Prophet, and His angels pray for him. O believers! Invoke Allah’s blessings upon him, and salute him with worthy greetings of peace.

Grammatical Analysis

The root verb (Past/Present Imperfect) tense صلَّى يُصلِّي which clearly is linked to sending salutations and is actually command verb صَلّوا

Which means...O Believers you are commanded (ORDERED) to send Blessings & Salutations upon Prophet Muhammad ﷺ

Is it an obligation ALL-THE-TIME or Once (in lifetime)?
Based on this command verb صَلّوا, the scholars have differed if the command is ALL-THE-TIME or once in a lifetime?

قال ابن القيم رحمه الله
" اخْتلف فِي وُجُوب الصَّلَاة عَلَيْهِ صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم كلما ذكر اسْمه صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم : فَقَالَ أَبُو جَعْفَر الطَّحَاوِيّ وَأَبُو عبد الله الْحَلِيمِيّ : تجب الصَّلَاة عَلَيْهِ صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم كلما ذكر اسْمه .
وَقَالَ غَيرهمَا : إِن ذَلِك مُسْتَحبّ وَلَيْسَ بِفَرْض يَأْثَم تَاركه .
ثمَّ اخْتلفُوا : فَقَالَت فرقة تجب الصَّلَاة عَلَيْهِ فِي الْعُمر مرّة وَاحِدَة ، لِأَن الْأَمر الْمُطلق لَا يَقْتَضِي تَكْرَارا ، والماهية تحصل بِمرَّة، وهذا محكي عَن أبي حنيفَة وَمَالك وَالثَّوْري وَالْأَوْزَاعِيّ ، قَالَ عِيَاض وَابْن عبد الْبر : وَهُوَ قَول جُمْهُور الْأمة .
وَقَالَت فرقة : بل تجب فِي كل صَلَاة في تشهدها الْأَخير ، وَهُوَ قَول الشَّافِعِي وَأحمد فِي آخر الرِّوَايَتَيْنِ عَنهُ وَغَيرهمَا .
وَقَالَت طَائِفَة الْأَمر بِالصَّلَاةِ أَمر اسْتِحْبَاب لَا أَمر إِيجَاب

​

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

There is a difference of opinion as to whether it is obligatory to send blessings upon him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) every time his name (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is mentioned. Abu Ja‘far at-Tahhaawi and Abu ‘Abdullah al-Haleemi said: It is obligatory to send blessings upon him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) every time his name is mentioned.

Others said that this is mustahabb but it is not obligatory in the sense that the one who does not do it is sinning.

Then they differed further. Some said that it is obligatory to send blessings upon him (at least) once in a lifetime, because the command in general terms does not imply that it is to be done repeatedly, and it may be attained by doing it once. This is narrated from Abu Haneefah, Maalik, ath-Thawri and al-Awzaa‘i. ‘Iyaad and Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said: It is the view of the majority of the ummah.

Others said: rather it is obligatory to do that in every prayer, in the final tashahhud. This is the view of ash-Shaafa‘i, of Ahmad in the latter of the two reports narrated from him, and of others.

Yet others said that the command to send blessings upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is a command in the sense of it being recommended, not in the sense of it being obligatory.
​

 

[Farhan The Man]

Others said that this is mustahabb but it is not obligatory....

Then they differed further.

Others said: rather it is obligatory to do that in every prayer

Yet others said that the command to send blessings upon the Prophet is a command in the sense of it being recommended, not in the sense of it being obligatory.​

Therein lies your conundrum.

Others versus others' commandments.

These "others" are sinful men. Self-anointed. Not divine.

 

[ElRaja]

I had an interesting expereince the other day, i am not religious and i dont hide it, but having learnt from uni experiences, i realised talking about religion is a fool's errand because the risk reward ratio is way too skewed, so I never debate religion, i have no interest in other peoples beliefs.

However an acquaintance came up to me the other day and started questioning why I'm not religious, I gave the usual spiel, trying to avoid a conversation I had no interest in having. At that point, he said that he didn't care how I felt, grabbed me by the wrist, pulled me real close and said it was his job to make me a religious and good Muslim.

i was like ok sure dude, thx. i dont even know how to communicate with someone who believes something that strongly. but just as a note to someone who thinks doing this is how you preach religion, its not.

 

[LordJames]

Therein lies your conundrum.

Others versus others' commandments.

These "others" are sinful men. Self-anointed. Not divine.

I had an interesting expereince the other day, i am not religious and i dont hide it, but having learnt from uni experiences, i realised talking about religion is a fool's errand because the risk reward ratio is way too skewed, so I never debate religion, i have no interest in other peoples beliefs.

However an acquaintance came up to me the other day and started questioning why I'm not religious, I gave the usual spiel, trying to avoid a conversation I had no interest in having. At that point, he said that he didn't care how I felt, grabbed me by the wrist, pulled me real close and said it was his job to make me a religious and good Muslim.

i was like ok sure dude, thx. i dont even know how to communicate with someone who believes something that strongly. but just as a note to someone who thinks doing this is how you preach religion, its not.

Everyone is free to make their own choices in life. It’s natural for family and loved ones to have preferences for us and sometimes even insist on choosing for us. That’s just how life works.

But let’s be real—most Muslims couldn’t care less about apostates or those who no longer practice. What gets tiring is when they constantly feel the need to announce, “I used to practice…” or “I come from an extremely religious family…” in every conversation. Honestly, nobody asked.

And let’s not pretend that many of them aren’t exaggerating (or outright lying) about their past. You see it all the time—someone claims to have studied Islam deeply, yet can’t answer basic questions about Fiqh, Tafseer, or even Arabic after supposedly spending years in Madrasah. Meanwhile, practicing Muslims openly admit that even praying 5 Rakaat Maghrib after a long day can feel heavy, and these so-called former scholars don’t bat an eye. Suspicious, right?

The same applies to atheists and agnostics who talk a big game about science and logic but struggle to put together three coherent arguments to support their own beliefs. It’s not about what people believe or don’t believe—it’s about the need to insert themselves into every discussion and make grand claims they can’t back up.

At the end of the day, people have the right to believe whatever they want. As a kid, I put my milk teeth under my pillow, thinking the tooth fairy would take them. Then I grew up. If some people still hold onto scientifically absurd belief systems (or lack thereof) as adults, that’s their choice.

Just don’t try to shove it down a Muslim’s throat. Islam is one of the few religions that constantly invites believers to think, ponder, and reflect on creation. We don’t need lectures from people who barely understand their own worldview.

 

[Farhan The Man]

But let’s be real

OK then. Let's go.

Let's start with islam's incremental benefit with empirical evidence. To recent society. Not 1400 years ago in arabistan. But now.

No long-winded narrative. Only corroborated with fact.

 

[uppercut]

I had an interesting expereince the other day, i am not religious and i dont hide it, but having learnt from uni experiences, i realised talking about religion is a fool's errand because the risk reward ratio is way too skewed, so I never debate religion, i have no interest in other peoples beliefs.

However an acquaintance came up to me the other day and started questioning why I'm not religious, I gave the usual spiel, trying to avoid a conversation I had no interest in having. At that point, he said that he didn't care how I felt, grabbed me by the wrist, pulled me real close and said it was his job to make me a religious and good Muslim.

i was like ok sure dude, thx. i dont even know how to communicate with someone who believes something that strongly. but just as a note to someone who thinks doing this is how you preach religion, its not.

And this happened in Pakistan or a Western country ?

 

[LordJames]

OK then. Let's go.

Let's start with islam's incremental benefit with empirical evidence. To recent society. Not 1400 years ago in arabistan. But now.

No long-winded narrative. Only corroborated with fact.

No such thing as "Arabistan" except that it is an ancient name for Khuzestan province in Iran and Islam didn't originate from there. And the name itself is non-Arabic and nothing to do with origins of Islam.

Please consider getting a refund on your "11 year Madrasah education" as I suggested earlier.

 

[Farhan The Man]

I gave you an easy long hop. For you to hit out of the park.

But you still failed to name one -- just one -- incremental of islamic practices to present day civilization.

There are absolutely no veritable empirical. Yet you insist to follow an ideology to a tee lacking societal benefits.

 

[ElRaja]

Everyone is free to make their own choices in life. It’s natural for family and loved ones to have preferences for us and sometimes even insist on choosing for us. That’s just how life works.

But let’s be real—most Muslims couldn’t care less about apostates or those who no longer practice. What gets tiring is when they constantly feel the need to announce, “I used to practice…” or “I come from an extremely religious family…” in every conversation. Honestly, nobody asked.

And let’s not pretend that many of them aren’t exaggerating (or outright lying) about their past. You see it all the time—someone claims to have studied Islam deeply, yet can’t answer basic questions about Fiqh, Tafseer, or even Arabic after supposedly spending years in Madrasah. Meanwhile, practicing Muslims openly admit that even praying 5 Rakaat Maghrib after a long day can feel heavy, and these so-called former scholars don’t bat an eye. Suspicious, right?

The same applies to atheists and agnostics who talk a big game about science and logic but struggle to put together three coherent arguments to support their own beliefs. It’s not about what people believe or don’t believe—it’s about the need to insert themselves into every discussion and make grand claims they can’t back up.

At the end of the day, people have the right to believe whatever they want. As a kid, I put my milk teeth under my pillow, thinking the tooth fairy would take them. Then I grew up. If some people still hold onto scientifically absurd belief systems (or lack thereof) as adults, that’s their choice.

Just don’t try to shove it down a Muslim’s throat. Islam is one of the few religions that constantly invites believers to think, ponder, and reflect on creation. We don’t need lectures from people who barely understand their own worldview.

i dont talk about religion at all, people make comments about it all the time and i just nod and agree, my own belief are a result of my life experiences, and theres no way im gonna start talking about those experiences with someone who i know only as a professional acquaintance. i talk about religion to my close friends only, some of whom are fully practising Muslims, others are atheists. i honestly am happy for someone if they are a practising religiousand it brings them psychological peace and an anchor to live their life by.

 

[ElRaja]

And this happened in Pakistan or a Western country ?

UK

 

[sweep_shot]

Alhumdulilah, what a great and blessed exercise
====
View attachment 150136


In a remarkable acknowledgment of Islamic practices, Harvard University has declared that the posture of Sujood—the act of prostration performed in Muslim prayers—is the most effective natural remedy for back pain.

According to the study, the unique position of Sujood, where the forehead touches the ground, helps in improving spinal alignment, enhancing blood circulation, and relieving pressure on the lower back.

Researchers emphasized that the repetitive movement involved in daily prayers offers therapeutic benefits, making it a holistic exercise for physical and mental well-being

SubhanAllah. Amazing.

As Muslims, we are expected to do 34 sujoods minimum (5 daily prayers = 17 rakats = 34 sujoods).

 

[LordJames]

I gave you an easy long hop. For you to hit out of the park.

But you still failed to name one -- just one -- incremental of islamic practices to present day civilization.

There are absolutely no veritable empirical. Yet you insist to follow an ideology to a tee lacking societal benefits.

"One Incremental of Islamic practices"???

"No veritable empirical"???

Please try writing in English so I at least understand what you are trying to say. Not only 11 years of Madrasah eduction but probably similar lengths of secular education has failed you as long.

Here is an easy long hop for you.

Copy/Paste the gibberish you are writing in ChatGpt and ask it to translate into English and then paste it for others to at least understand what you are trying to say...

Better, save others (particularly me) from your outburst.

Get a refund for your "Madrasah" and Secular education! In fact, do everyone a favour and name the Institutions so others can save their children from not only inadequate education but also from the life long trauma of being "Academically inadequate"...

 

[Farhan The Man]

Better, save others (particularly me) from your outburst.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Easy there cowboy.

 

[Farhan The Man]

OK then. Let's go.

Let's start with islam's incremental benefit with empirical evidence. To recent society. Not 1400 years ago in arabistan. But now.

No long-winded narrative. Only corroborated with fact.

Two days thus far. And still no takers.

Surely islam must bring incremental benefit. To present day society. Rooted in empirical.

Giving a helping hand here: security, hygiene, population control, infrastructure, health, unity. Something. One thing.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Are islamic practices holding muslims back?

Case in point: Labeling of printing presses as haraam by turkish mullahs led to muslims falling behind by couple of centuries.

Hygiene, or lack thereof, is another drawback. There is severe lack of cleanliness. Filth rules roost.