Dawah, Islamic Law, Punishments & Limits in Islam

[rpant_gabba]

How do you sleep at night with this much hatred?

like a baby

Know that your hatred has no affect on Islam and Muslims. You are only causing harm to yourself (hatred affects health negatively).

pot, ketlle and all that

May God guide you.

Which one? mithra, Zoraster, Zeus, Thor?

 

[Stewie]

like a baby

pot, ketlle and all that

Which one? mithra, Zoraster, Zeus, Thor?

The AllFather of Atheism Mathias Knutzen

 

[rpant_gabba]

The AllFather of Atheism Mathias Knutzen

nah. to me he is just another human. who I happen to agree with on one topic

Of course that be might a concept foreign to you

 

[Stewie]

nah. to me he is just another human. who I happen to agree with on one topic

Of course that be might a concept foreign to you

No.. I believe what you say. Trust me. I respect your views.


Like some other idiots around here who refuse to believe others, I’ll actually extend you that courtesy without asking for proof or written affidavit and such.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No personal remarks here guys

 

[Stewie]

Its curse of the scientific profession. If someone makes a real world claim, we have this habit of asking them to prove it.

It pisses off, not just religious people, even athiests who make stuff up.

now you are back to special pleading.

I grew up in the rationalist culture in south india where mocking deities was routine and live in a land where I have legal right to.

funny that a religious person who wants to restrict others rights accuses other of entitlement

I’m going to take a leaf out of your book and prove to me how and when did I ever or my belief ever want to restrict others rights?

And what you consider pleading is human decency which you as an atheist seem to consider is beyond you. I belong in the scientific profession as well and I am sure based on my age .. for a lot longer than you.

Do you go around knocking on church doors making similar demands?
The alleged rationalist culture should also have taught you to keep your beliefs to yourself and respect others, if it didn’t well I feel sorry for such a culture. Just like I feel sorry for radical extremists belonging to each religion. You are then no different than they are, are you?

 

[rpant_gabba]

I’m going to take a leaf out of your book and prove to me how and when did I ever or my belief ever want to restrict others rights?

You would never do that. there are idiots constantly making the case that gods and prophets should not be mocked. I was referring to them.

And what you consider pleading is human decency which you as an atheist seem to consider is beyond you.

It is exactly special pleading when someone asks others to limit their freedom of expression WRT fictional characters

Do you go around knocking on church doors making similar demands?

Yup.

Actually collected signatures at church doors to bring back slavery according to exodus 21, to outlaw divorce (had sign which said "till do us apart, you ain't dead yet"

This was during Prop 8 campaign in in 2008

fun times.

The alleged rationalist culture should also have taught you to keep your beliefs to yourself and respect others, if it didn’t well I feel sorry for such a culture. Just like I feel sorry for radical extremists belonging to each religion. You are then no different than they are, are you?

Nah. I don't go around asking people not to mock my favorite movie characters or commit murders when that happens

 

[HalBass9]

Agree.

the problem starts up when you start demanding don't eat my favorite/sacred animal, make exception for my favorite fairytale/myth/scripture in you freedom of expression, provide tax breaks for our religious party halls

Keep for what it is. your personal belief. just like your favorite football or hockey team

However, you seem to be doing the same, asking others to adopt your belief that there is no God and becoming upset when they do not agree.

I fully support the notion of providing tax breaks for atheistic beliefs, provided they do not endorse genocide or support governments that harbor former Prime Ministers accused of crimes against their own citizens.

I also believe that atheists should refrain from imposing their beliefs on others, just as they expect individuals of other religions to do.

 

[rpant_gabba]

However, you seem to be doing the same, asking others to adopt your belief that there is no God and becoming upset when they do not agree.

nope. I'm not asking anyone to adopt anything.

I fully support the notion of providing tax breaks for atheistic beliefs,

Interesting phrase. Their is not such thing as athiestic belief. I don't want to go off topic here. lets start another thread if you prefer.

I also believe that atheists should refrain from imposing their beliefs on others, just as they expect individuals of other religions to do.

Such as?

Personally, I've seen the light and I'm a pastafarian can you convince to join the Church of Venganza

 

[Stewie]

You would never do that. there are idiots constantly making the case that gods and prophets should not be mocked. I was referring to them.

It is exactly special pleading when someone asks others to limit their freedom of expression WRT fictional characters


Yup.

Actually collected signatures at church doors to bring back slavery according to exodus 21, to outlaw divorce (had sign which said "till do us apart, you ain't dead yet"

This was during Prop 8 campaign in in 2008

fun times.

Nah. I don't go around asking people not to mock my favorite movie characters or commit murders when that happens

So let me get this straight. The same rights that you want to claim for yourself, you want to deny others unless they provide you with a proof of the existence of God? Did I get this right? And how much sense does that make?

Like I said as a Muslim I am totally alright with you being you, but why is it that me being me is such a problem for you?

As a man of science and logic I hope you see the folly in your ways. I believe you live in the states. In due time hopefully you will assimilate and understand the philosophy of this country of right to religion.

 

[Stewie]

However, you seem to be doing the same, asking others to adopt your belief that there is no God and becoming upset when they do not agree.

I fully support the notion of providing tax breaks for atheistic beliefs, provided they do not endorse genocide or support governments that harbor former Prime Ministers accused of crimes against their own citizens.

I also believe that atheists should refrain from imposing their beliefs on others, just as they expect individuals of other religions to do.

That’s exactly what he is doing.

He is adamant that somehow us being Muslims is encroaching on his beliefs and ideas. With absolutely zero proof and justification.

 

[Stewie]

This is why personally I align more with agnosticism because to enshrines the true right to belief of humanity rather than using the excuse of science to tell others not to believe in any philosophy because for one reason or another it doesn’t align with the scientific theories.

 

[HalBass9]

nope. I'm not asking anyone to adopt anything.

Interesting phrase. Their is not such thing as athiestic belief. I don't want to go off topic here. lets start another thread if you prefer.

Such as?

Personally, I've seen the light and I'm a pastafarian can you convince to join the Church of Venganza

You claim not to be asking anyone to adopt your beliefs, yet your tone suggests frustration with those who hold different views. By attempting to mock other belief systems and seeking tax breaks for your own, it appears you are asserting the superiority of atheism, a belief in the non-existence of a deity.

Indeed, extremists exist within every belief system. Just as you have and other Indians have dehumanized Bangladeshis simply because they are Muslim and resist electing an India backed candidate.

Perhaps it's time to practice the very tolerance you advocate for.

 

[rpant_gabba]

So let me get this straight. The same rights that you want to claim for yourself, you want to deny others unless they provide you with a proof of the existence of God? Did I get this right? And how much sense does that make?

did you understand what I posted? or what I was trying to do? Do you know what Prop 8 in california was?

Like I said as a Muslim I am totally alright with you being you, but why is it that me being me is such a problem for you?

Absolutely no problem. don't ask me to give up my constitutional right. We'll get along just fine. Same thing I say to my xtians of all denominations, hindus, buddhists etc etc.

Did the South Indian school you went to teach you at all about hypocrisy?

Actually the south india rationalists were all about hypocrisy. They were all for mocking only one religion. I chose to mock all religions.

As a man of science and logic I hope you see the folly in your ways. I believe you live in the states. In due time hopefully you will assimilate and understand the philosophy of this country of right to religion.

it also provides relief from religion.

practice your religion. don't let it interfere with my life and rights

 

[rpant_gabba]

You claim not to be asking anyone to adopt your beliefs, yet your tone suggests frustration with those who hold different views.

nope. its your imagination or your apologetic training.

By attempting to mock other belief systems

yes, if they make laws based on fairly tales, I'll mock them and fight them.

and seeking tax breaks for your own,

Once again, nope. I'm asking for removal of tax breaks. not sure why it is confusing to you.

it appears you are asserting the superiority of atheism, a belief in the non-existence of a deity.

standard apologetic tactic. . As I said before, create a separate thread on this topic.

Indeed, extremists exist within every belief system. Just as you have and other Indians have dehumanized Bangladeshis simply because they are Muslim and resist electing an India backed candidate.

My contempt for east pakistanis started long before if it helps fell any better.

Perhaps it's time to practice the very tolerance you advocate for.

I'm very tolerant. as long you don't start encrouching my space with eintilement.

 

[rpant_gabba]

This is why personally I align more with agnosticism because to enshrines the true right to belief of humanity rather than using the excuse of science to tell others not to believe in any philosophy because for one reason or another it doesn’t align with the scientific theories.

Aren't we all agnostics with respect to god? if gnotic thiest, then you have knowledge that you can demonstrate for existence of god.

of course you have to define god first

 

[HalBass9]

nope. its your imagination or your apologetic training.

yes, if they make laws based on fairly tales, I'll mock them and fight them.

Once again, nope. I'm asking for removal of tax breaks. not sure why it is confusing to you.

standard apologetic tactic. . As I said before, create a separate thread on this topic.

My contempt for east pakistanis started long before if it helps fell any better.

I'm very tolerant. as long you don't start encrouching my space with eintilement.

You aren't tolerant.

 

[rpant_gabba]

You aren't tolerant.

unproven assertion. just like god claims

What is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.: Hitchens Razor.

 

[Stewie]

Aren't we all agnostics with respect to god? if gnotic thiest, then you have knowledge that you can demonstrate for existence of god.

of course you have to define god first

So what is your contention here? Did you read the original post? Let’s get back to the topic. I think the OP did an excellent write up.

What is your bone to pick with here if you keep agreeing with us? And I know this issue is not directly related to this thread but why do we keep getting asked by “proof” to justify our belief by atheists?

Because this is how it has gone so far on the board as far as I can tell. Your countrymen come here and allege stuff. We post our defense and next thing we know you guys start asking us to prove it.

We post threads to clarify any ambiguity and denounce the extremists and yet again we get asked for proof. In the spirit of discussion we continue to engage but it is starting to feel awfully like a whole lot of you guys are simply extremist Hindus pretending to be atheists here to stir crap.

That’s just me. I have already put quite a few on ignore. And I also hope that in the spirit of proper and civil discussions the board moderators watch for such posts and such bad elements and ban them, whether they are trolls, extremist Hindus or Muslims, who keep going around in circles just cuz they don’t have anything better to do.

 

[Stewie]

unproven assertion. just like god claims

What is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.: Hitchens Razor.

Read the original post and tell us what you think about it.

 

[Stewie]

You aren't tolerant.

Well let him respond to some of me thoughts. I am willing to give him benefit of the doubt. He could just be confused

 

[HalBass9]

unproven assertion. just like god claims

What is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.: Hitchens Razor.

You are not a deity either.

Your beliefs are yours to hold, and I do not seek to challenge or disprove your atheism. I have no objections to what you choose to believe. However, do not take issue with anyone practicing of their beliefs in a secular society that upholds the freedom of religion for all.

So you have absolute right to be selectively bigot against Muslims but do not get upset when you get called out for that as it is anyone’s right to call a bigot a bigot.

Let’s not try to pretend that you aren’t one. You have made your views quiet clear.

 

[Stewie]

You are not a deity either.

Your beliefs are yours to hold, and I do not seek to challenge or disprove your atheism. I have no objections to what you choose to believe. However, do not take issue with anyone practicing of their beliefs in a secular society that upholds the freedom of religion for all.

So you have absolute right to be selectively bigot against Muslims but do not get upset when you get called out for that as it is anyone’s right to call a bigot a bigot.

Let’s not try to pretend that you aren’t one. You have made your views quiet clear.

He lives in the states but the baggage he carries he has brought all the way from back home, it seems.

 

[Justcrazy]

From the top of my head, I can think of one thing. But it is from Hadith.

Sun prostrates under the throne of Allah after it sets and waits for his permission to rise again. How do you explain that?

What exactly is your concern here ? The term prostration of sun?

 

[Justcrazy]

I have found that many Indians appear to hide behind the flexibility and lackadaisical approach of some Hindu denominations to pretend they are atheist with the sole aim of taking aim at Islam.

It is natural , if they accept that there are hindus , they will be eaten alive in any debate , trust me this is no exaggeration , because Hindu scriptures are full of stuff which will make corpse turn in grave laughing.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Stay on topic. No personal remarks and no mocking of religions here or else pleaseleave this thread.

 

[RexRex]

Answered all of them, are you following the thread? Please read and let me know which one has not been answered specifically?

All of them, haven't got an answer.

 

[Champ_Pal]

It is natural , if they accept that there are hindus , they will be eaten alive in any debate , trust me this is no exaggeration , because Hindu scriptures are full of stuff which will make corpse turn in grave laughing.

Hindu scriptures are considered Mythology. I hope you know what Mythology means.

If Islamic scriptures are considered mythology too, then no one will question anything.

 

[Stewie]

Hindu scriptures are considered Mythology. I hope you know what Mythology means.

If Islamic scriptures are considered mythology too, then no one will question anything.

There is questioning something in a sensible manner and then there is questioning something in a nonsensical fashion. There is a marked difference between the two. So far your method of questioning leaves a lot to be desired, as do your motives.

 

[RexRex]

Quran predicted in 613 that Romans would defeat the Persians straight after the crushing defeat of Romans at hand of Persians (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antioch_(613) and in 622 this prediction came true (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius'_campaign_of_622). Can anyone even predict such a turn around today?

Why does the Quran say sperm originates from between the backbone and the ribcage ?

 

[rpant_gabba]

There is questioning something in a sensible manner and then there is questioning something in a nonsensical fashion. There is a marked difference between the two. So far your method of questioning leaves a lot to be desired, as do your motives.

non sensical claims will be questioned in a non sensical way

 

[Stewie]

non sensical claims will be questioned in a non sensical way

.. and the logical questions will be dodged conveniently as is evidenced by your participation in this thread. When facing with a legit question, you truck your tail and run.

 

[Champ_Pal]

There is questioning something in a sensible manner and then there is questioning something in a nonsensical fashion. There is a marked difference between the two. So far your method of questioning leaves a lot to be desired, as do your motives.

I never questioned nonsensically. I questioned with proper proofs from Islamic scriptures.

When there is something wrong mentioned, you have to accept it. Progress cannot be made if you don’t accept mistakes in the scriptures.

 

[Stewie]

I never questioned nonsensically. I questioned with proper proofs from Islamic scriptures.

When there is something wrong mentioned, you have to accept it. Progress cannot be made if you don’t accept mistakes in the scriptures.

So far most of your questions have been answered. But you keep coming back and keep making ridiculous claims such as the one about the Sun not having an orbit or stupid stuff like why does Quran say the orbits of sun, moon or earth cannot cross. it is scientifically proven that orbits of celestial bodies can cross and Quran simply states that in our solar system that would not happen and it is actually observed that they do not cross each other. This is just one example.

Then you ask for proof of the existence of God. You ask for silly nonsense such as why haven't we found any buried evidence since time immemorial that might give us an indication that God buried it there.
These are simply some of the actual questions, lies, scientifically proven inaccuracies you have mentioned in this thread.

And none of your debate points actually have any direct reference to the original post of this discussion which summarizes the main points of our standing on the topics of dawah, law and punishment. Instead of discussing those topics, topics this thread is intended for, you have dragged your own insecurities and bias about our faith and tried to hijack the thread with tall claims and scientific inaccuracies while pretending to be an atheist and when exposed, you run away for days only to come back and do the rinse and repeat cycle again.

So what makes you think you have any credibility left here that will convince us to engage you?

 

[Justcrazy]

Hindu scriptures are considered Mythology. I hope you know what Mythology means.

If Islamic scriptures are considered mythology too, then no one will question anything.

If Hindus considered everything as Mythology , then there would be no religion . But what we see is contrary. The whole life style of hindus are based upon the religion they are following.

 

[Champ_Pal]

If Hindus considered everything as Mythology , then there would be no religion . But what we see is contrary. The whole life style of hindus are based upon the religion they are following.

Most of the stories are mythology. Ramayana and Mahabharata could be considered partially in the same category too. Its just over exaggeration of real events.

Sanatana is a philosophy. This is just my opinion. Hindus were forced to adopt the philosophy as a religion to counter the Islamic onslaught. It was a loosely organized faith until a South Indian Shankara established Shakti Peethas all across India around 750 AD. He tried to bring a semblance of organization in the culture. Our Mythology has become the religion slowly over the past thousand years.

Even in Islam, many stories are myths. You just have to read them. You guys don't agree that it is mythology.

 

[Justcrazy]

Most of the stories are mythology. Ramayana and Mahabharata could be considered partially in the same category too. Its just over exaggeration of real events.

Sanatana is a philosophy. This is just my opinion. Hindus were forced to adopt the philosophy as a religion to counter the Islamic onslaught. It was a loosely organized faith until a South Indian Shankara established Shakti Peethas all across India around 750 AD. He tried to bring a semblance of organization in the culture. Our Mythology has become the religion slowly over the past thousand years.

Even in Islam, many stories are myths. You just have to read them. You guys don't agree that it is mythology.

Islam has chain of narration , it has biographies of narrators. Thus we can filter out unauthentic things , hinduism has no such mechanism.

Also , what ever you say , the bottamline is that Hindus do follow Hinduism as religion. They believe all those stuff written in the different scriptures.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Islam has chain of narration , it has biographies of narrators. Thus we can filter out unauthentic things , hinduism has no such mechanism.

Also , what ever you say , the bottamline is that Hindus do follow Hinduism as religion. They believe all those stuff written in the different scriptures.

Prophet flying on a winged animal, Adam being the first human and eve made out of his rib, Adam being 90 feet tall, stories of Prophet Al Khader who turns every barren land green, Story of Noah, Story of Yajooj-Majooj, Story of a rock stealing the clothes of Prophet Moses and running away.... etc. I can go on an on.

The above stories may be real events for believers. For a man reading from neutral perspective, they are just make believe stories.

Hinduism is a religion. I do not club Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma together. Hinduism like Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism are part of Sanataan Dharma. Not the other way around. The stories written in Hindu scriptures were written on real life characters who obviously were over exaggerated. This is why unnatural things must be questioned.

 

[Justcrazy]

Prophet flying on a winged animal, Adam being the first human and eve made out of his rib, Adam being 90 feet tall, stories of Prophet Al Khader who turns every barren land green, Story of Noah, Story of Yajooj-Majooj, Story of a rock stealing the clothes of Prophet Moses and running away.... etc. I can go on an on.

The above stories may be real events for believers. For a man reading from neutral perspective, they are just make believe stories.

Hinduism is a religion. I do not club Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma together. Hinduism like Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism are part of Sanataan Dharma. Not the other way around. The stories written in Hindu scriptures were written on real life characters who obviously were over exaggerated. This is why unnatural things must be questioned.

Brother the point I made was about finding authentic text according to principles of that religion. Islam has chain of narrations , with biographies of narrators , we know exactly who narrators are. Do Hindus know about there narrators of there scriptures ?

First agree to this point , then we will move on to your next point.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Brother the point I made was about finding authentic text according to principles of that religion. Islam has chain of narrations , with biographies of narrators , we know exactly who narrators are. Do Hindus know about there narrators of there scriptures ?

First agree to this point , then we will move on to your next point.

So if there is a proper chain of narration, should everyone agree that the first human was 90 feet tall or there are millions of weird creates that are imprisoned behind an iron wall or a rock stole Moses’s clothes and ran away?
How can any of the above be real even if there is a proper chain of narration?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So if there is a proper chain of narration, should everyone agree that the first human was 90 feet tall or there are millions of weird creates that are imprisoned behind an iron wall or a rock stole Moses’s clothes and ran away?
How can any of the above be real even if there is a proper chain of narration?

Brother champ pal, how is it difficult for you to comprehend bearing in mind you believe in a religion that says man came out from monkeys, Guerillas as part of evolution

 

[Champ_Pal]

Brother champ pal, how is it difficult for you to comprehend bearing in mind you believe in a religion that says man came out from monkeys as part of evolution

So evolution is a religion?

Evolution does not say man came out of a monkey. We had a common ape ancestor.

Evolution convinces through fossil evidence. Not by praying in a temple or mosque.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So evolution is a religion?

Evolution does not say man came out of a monkey. We had a common ape ancestor.

Evolution convinces through fossil evidence. Not by praying in a temple or mosque.

Brother champ pal plz elaborate what exactly does it mean to have Apes as common ancestor? Doesn't this mean that humans were once Apes also?

 

[Justcrazy]

So if there is a proper chain of narration, should everyone agree that the first human was 90 feet tall or there are millions of weird creates that are imprisoned behind an iron wall or a rock stole Moses’s clothes and ran away?
How can any of the above be real even if there is a proper chain of narration?

You not getting the point. I am speaking about the method of narration. Once you agree to that , we can move to next that is the text.

In Hinduism there is absolutely NO chain of narration. We do not know who spoke them. When we judge something first we see who is speaking , after that we can discuss what has been spoken. First the source from which the information is coming, then the information.

So , now you agree ?

 

[Champ_Pal]

You not getting the point. I am speaking about the method of narration. Once you agree to that , we can move to next that is the text.

In Hinduism there is absolutely NO chain of narration. We do not know who spoke them. When we judge something first we see who is speaking , after that we can discuss what has been spoken. First the source from which the information is coming, then the information.

So , now you agree ?

Chain of narration means nothing for illogical assertions.

Vedic texts, puranas etc were also transmitted orally and millions memorized it at all times. Does it mean the stories in them are real?

 

[Justcrazy]

Chain of narration means nothing for illogical assertions.

Vedic texts, puranas etc were also transmitted orally and millions memorized it at all times. Does it mean the stories in them are real?

I can for example tell a certain hadeeth of bukhari has its chain to prophet. I know the people involved. Can you tell me names through which you got Vedas or Puranas etc ?

 

[Champ_Pal]

I can for example tell a certain hadeeth of bukhari has its chain to prophet. I know the people involved. Can you tell me names through which you got Vedas or Puranas etc ?

We do not have who said what.

Now please go ahead with your argument.

 

[Justcrazy]

We do not have who said what.

Now please go ahead with your argument.

"WE" , so you acknowledge that you are sanatani , so why hide behind atheism?

 

[Champ_Pal]

"WE" , so you acknowledge that you are sanatani , so why hide behind atheism?

Carvak is part of Sanatan. You can give a read about it.

Anyways. Present your arguments.

 

[Justcrazy]

Carvak is part of Sanatan. You can give a read about it.

Anyways. Present your arguments.

What is Carvak ?

 

[IndoorCricket]

What is Carvak ?

Charvaka - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Charvaka (Sanskrit: चार्वाक; IAST: Cārvāka), also known as Lokāyata, is an ancient school of Indian materialism. It is considered as one example of the atheistic schools in the Ancient Indian philosophies.Charvaka holds direct perception, empiricism, and conditional inference as proper sources of knowledge, embraces philosophical skepticism and rejects ritualism. It was a well-attested belief system in ancient India.

 

[Justcrazy]

Charvaka - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is a philoshophy not a religion , am I right ?

 

[Champ_Pal]

What is Carvak ?

Indian version of atheism. Cultural Hindus. Don’t believe in divinity or divine and sacred scriptures like Vedas and upanishads. No Divine Brahman(God) or Atman(soul).

Basically what you see is what you get.

 

[Champ_Pal]

This is a philoshophy not a religion , am I right ?

Everything was a philosophy in ancient India. You choose the philosophy that best suits you. They were all schools of thoughts or paths and debates over philosophies was quite common.
In modern times they became religions.

 

[Justcrazy]

Indian version of atheism. Cultural Hindus. Don’t believe in divinity or divine and sacred scriptures like Vedas and upanishads. No Divine Brahman(God) or Atman(soul).

Basically what you see is what you get.

If they believe in nothing , then how they are hindus?

Secondly , If tomorrow a Russian atheist comes to India , will he be treated as Charvaka?

 

[Justcrazy]

Everything was a philosophy in ancient India. You choose the philosophy that best suits you. They were all schools of thoughts or paths and debates over philosophies was quite common.
In modern times they became religions.

Philosophy and Religion are two different things , in ancient India as well as Modern India. They were not same thing.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Philosophy and Religion are two different things , in ancient India as well as Modern India. They were not same thing.

They were called Marg or Panth.

Budh Marg(Buddha's way), Jain Marg (Jain's path or way), Shiva's way etc. All the preachers had their own twist on the way to attain Nirvana, Moksha etc. You choose what suits you the best. In the past 1200 years we had Shankara's way(Advaita Vedanta), Madhava's way(Dvaita Vedanta). They all had their differences and arguments. All different schools of thoughts.

In modern times, they have all become rigid religions like Islam or Christianity. Sanatana Dharma is just a common face for all those schools of thought.

May be for Islam, this is an alien concept. You have one God, one book and even then you have disagreements on various aspects of God.

 

[Stewie]

They were called Marg or Panth.

Budh Marg(Buddha's way), Jain Marg (Jain's path or way), Shiva's way etc. All the preachers had their own twist on the way to attain Nirvana, Moksha etc. You choose what suits you the best. In the past 1200 years we had Shankara's way(Advaita Vedanta), Madhava's way(Dvaita Vedanta). They all had their differences and arguments. All different schools of thoughts.

In modern times, they have all become rigid religions like Islam or Christianity. Sanatana Dharma is just a common face for all those schools of thought.

May be for Islam, this is an alien concept. You have one God, one book and even then you have disagreements on various aspects of God.

So which one of them did you learn your astronomy from?

 

[Farhan The Man]

Not true though.

God revealed 4 wives as law. Prophet's action was 13 wives.

One law for thee. Another for me.

Consequently followers are confused.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Not true though.

God revealed 4 wives as law. Prophet's action was 13 wives.

One law for thee. Another for me.

Consequently followers are confused.

Have a watch.

 

[Justcrazy]

Not true though.

God revealed 4 wives as law. Prophet's action was 13 wives.

One law for thee. Another for me.

Consequently followers are confused.

If I am not mistaken I think you are an atheist . Correct me if I am wrong.

My request is that , if you have questions about Islam , please do some research , because most of your objections are very old , they have been answered several times over and over again. If you bring something new up after some research , it will be interesting to try and find answers.

I have seen ( not specifically this forum ) but in several other places around 15 - 20 objections that keep on repeating.

 

[BouncerGuy]

WHat are you talking about brother??

 

[Farhan The Man]

Brother?

Well that's another coping mechanism in our culture to placate disagreements.

Let's stick to substance, shall we.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Brother?

Well that's another coping mechanism in our culture to placate disagreements.

Let's stick to substance, shall we.

Shoot what you wanna know and talk about topic.

 

[Stewie]

Brother?

Well that's another coping mechanism in our culture to placate disagreements.

Let's stick to substance, shall we.

In “our” culture? Are you Pakistani or Indian? I want to make sure I understand your background before I respond to any of your posts.

 

[Farhan The Man]

I grew up in karachi, had to bear enough of your kind of simple minded fools. Lakeer da fakeers.


This transgression in action proves otherwise. Move on.

 

[Justcrazy]

I grew up in karachi, had to bear enough of your kind of simple minded fools. Lakeer da fakeers.


This transgression in action proves otherwise. Move on.

what is your question that I did not answer ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Food for thought

Some posters here couldn't predict the US presidential election results merely 6 hours before the results. Calling it a "tight race", "hopefully" suggesting one would win while living in the same country and then there is guys like me who weren't in US and still termed Trump the winner. So how odd it seems when the same guy says that Quran rightly predicting a triumph of Romans over Sassanids not a big deal. Although the prediction was made right after Sassanids decimation of Romans.

So I urge our friends to ponder over their own criterion.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@uppercut, instead of derailing other threads I think this might be appropriate for you to raise your objections against Muslims and Islam and get it answered

Will be more than willing to answer your queries if you are up for a healthy debate...best wishes

And one thing tbh, I have found one thing. Your conception about Muslims and Islam is too negative which infact isn't true. Let us all ponder openly and revisit our dogmas

 

[uppercut]

@uppercut, instead of derailing other threads I think this might be appropriate for you to raise your objections against Muslims and Islam and get it answered

Will be more than willing to answer your queries if you are up for a healthy debate...best wishes

And one thing tbh, I have found one thing. Your conception about Muslims and Islam is too negative which infact isn't true. Let us all ponder openly and revisit our dogmas

Sure please Move this to an appropriate thread and unlike others I will give you very direct answers backed by facts.

 

[sweep_shot]

@uppercut, instead of derailing other threads I think this might be appropriate for you to raise your objections against Muslims and Islam and get it answered

Will be more than willing to answer your queries if you are up for a healthy debate...best wishes

And one thing tbh, I have found one thing. Your conception about Muslims and Islam is too negative which infact isn't true. Let us all ponder openly and revisit our dogmas

I honestly do not understand @uppercut's objective sometimes.

 

[uppercut]

I honestly do not understand @uppercut's objective sometimes.

I have told you why. it is necessary to show you the proverbial mirror and give you a proper reality check.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@Farhan The Man, I know your name sounds like Muslim but you are not one. And your posting just shows grave misconception regarding Islam so brother Farhan, I would like to extend you support from me and many other knowledgeable posters on clarification and explanation regarding any issue pertaining to Islam.

Plz share your objections and queries regarding Islamic issues here and although none of us is a qualified scholar but we will try our best to enlighten you regarding the issue. Best wishes

 

[Champ_Pal]

Have a watch.

Lets delve slightly deep into this.

He married his cousin Zainab who was his daughter-in-law and also his cousin. Tariq Jameel says it is not for Jism Ayyashi. But the Hadeeth clearly says that
No point in talking about Hazrat Aisha.
He married Safia who was already married to Kaab-ibn-Ashraf a Jewish man. Kaab was brutally killed and Safia was taken captive from her family. We have Hadeeth evidence for that.
Hazrat Sauda traded her day with Prophet with Aisha as Hazrat Aisha was Prophet's favorite.

Among all these, Prophet threatened his wives of divorce for not being submissive to their husband. Even Allah SWT had to send down a verse for it.

Finally, this is the same Maulana Tariq Jameel that said stupid things about Allah. His bayans on how heaven would be and what Muslims will do and get served is available for everyone to see on youtube. Jameel got blasted for his blasphemy. So we have to take this Jameel's Khutba seriously.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Lets delve slightly deep into this.

He married his cousin Zainab who was his daughter-in-law and also his cousin. Tariq Jameel says it is not for Jism Ayyashi. But the Hadeeth clearly says that
No point in talking about Hazrat Aisha.
He married Safia who was already married to Kaab-ibn-Ashraf a Jewish man. Kaab was brutally killed and Safia was taken captive from her family. We have Hadeeth evidence for that.
Hazrat Sauda traded her day with Prophet with Aisha as Hazrat Aisha was Prophet's favorite.

Among all these, Prophet threatened his wives of divorce for not being submissive to their husband. Even Allah SWT had to send down a verse for it.

Finally, this is the same Maulana Tariq Jameel that said stupid things about Allah. His bayans on how heaven would be and what Muslims will do and get served is available for everyone to see on youtube. Jameel got blasted for his blasphemy. So we have to take this Jameel's Khutba seriously.

Like always you just showed how little you know about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

Brief response
Zaynab bint Jahsh (RA) was the cousin but NOT daughter in law of Prophet.
You have no context, Prophet never threatened to divorce his pious wives, instead ALLAH (SWT) asked them to either chose the worldly comforts or blessings of an eternal life with Prophet (PBUH)
When Hazrat Aisha (RA) wed Prophet (PBUH), no one even objected to it even PAGANs of that time except some modern ones doing now and of lately

Detailed response

Don't worry I won't let you have any excuse.

And this great scholar is from India so you won't have Tariq Jameel red herring

 

[Champ_Pal]

Alright. Hazrat Zainab was D-I-L of Prophet until adoption was banned in Islam.
You can tell stories to people who do not understand Islamic theology. Not to people who actually read Quran Pak and Hadees.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Alright. Hazrat Zainab was D-I-L of Prophet until adoption was banned in Islam.
You can tell stories to people who do not understand Islamic theology. Not to people who actually read Quran Pak and Hadees.

Nice escape

Lol...for that one need to read Quran and Hadiths first

 

[Farhan The Man]

@Farhan The Man, I know your name sounds like Muslim but you are not one. And your posting just shows grave misconception regarding Islam so brother Farhan, I would like to extend you support from me and many other knowledgeable posters on clarification and explanation regarding any issue pertaining to Islam.

Plz share your objections and queries regarding Islamic issues here and although none of us is a qualified scholar but we will try our best to enlighten you regarding the issue. Best wishes

OK. Let's give this a go.

Name me one -- and I repeat one -- benefit islam brought about to pak society since rebrand from secular pakistan to IRP in 1971?

With empirical evidence please. No theology.

 

[BouncerGuy]

OK. Let's give this a go.

Name me one -- and I repeat one -- benefit islam brought about to pak society since rebrand from secular pakistan to IRP in 1971?

With empirical evidence please. No theology.

establishment of a formal Zakat and Ushr system for the poor and needy people of Pakistan, after the adoption of the 1973 constitution and subsequent policies.

 

[Farhan The Man]

establishment of a formal Zakat and Ushr system for the poor and needy people of Pakistan, after the adoption of the 1973 constitution and subsequent policies.

I repeat. In empirical terms. Not theoretical.

To get you started here are some hints: healthy/fitter society, more scientists/doctors, cleaner environment, increased hygiene etc.

You need to quantify incremental benefit as before vs after metric.