[VIDEOS] "Asian cricketers do get judged quicker than others and people do write you off quicker" : Moeen Ali

[the Great Khan]

The first time I watched him bat, I thought he was going to be a gun player for England for many years to come. But he has never really fulfilled his potential with the bat, prone to having brain fa*t shots with the bat suddenly after looking comfortable for a long time.

At the end of the day, after playing 60 tests for England, he averages 28 with the bat and 36 with the ball. Don't think England has discriminated in any way against him, they actually have given him a long rope and I still don't think the ECB has given up on him completely in test cricket, although Dom Bess is challenging him for his spot. Will remember him as a wasted talent, alongside Shaun Marsh & Khawaja on whom I have similar feelings about (Marsh and Khawaja more so as they had a higher ceiling).

That's true and I'm not saying he has been discriminated against but he is treated differently. The benefit of doubt is lower. Also he has been played pretty much out of position for most of his career. Yet he has soldiered on stoically. He was somebody who could have been a great batsman for England but he managed to carve out a niche for himself which in itself has been a plus. I rate him very highly considering the system and the treatment that is meted out in English cricket to minorities.

By the way some names were bandied about above and people forget Owais Shah. I did an analysis of Owais and compared him to the way Collingwood was treated. Its on this forum somewhere in days past. It was very interesting to see how much support collingwood was given compared to Owais as they started around the same time..

 

[Mamoon]

That's true and I'm not saying he has been discriminated against but he is treated differently. The benefit of doubt is lower. Also he has been played pretty much out of position for most of his career. Yet he has soldiered on stoically. He was somebody who could have been a great batsman for England but he managed to carve out a niche for himself which in itself has been a plus. I rate him very highly considering the system and the treatment that is meted out in English cricket to minorities.

By the way some names were bandied about above and people forget Owais Shah. I did an analysis of Owais and compared him to the way Collingwood was treated. Its on this forum somewhere in days past. It was very interesting to see how much support collingwood was given compared to Owais as they started around the same time..

There will always be some discrimination against minorities. We do not live in a utopian world. However, you also have to lay the blame on these Asian cricketers who have not worked hard enough to keep their place in the team.

Owais Shah, like Bopara had bags of ability. You could see it from the shots that they played. However, both were lazy and didn’t seem to have that relentless attitude and appetite to be prolific.

There is no denying that Collingwood, in spite of his limited talent, showed more grit than both of them combined.

Adil Rashid is a true inspiration for British Asians and an example of the fact that if you perform while playing for England, you will not be dropped.

He has never played the victim card or complained about racism and discrimination. He has taken everything in his stride and performed, and this is why he is the undisputed first-choice LOI spinner for England and was playing in the World Cup final while Moeen was on the sidelines after nearly sabotaging England’s chances of winning the World Cup after his pathetic display in the tournament.

Compared to Rashid, Moeen comes across as more sensitive, insecure and easily distracted by off-field issues and controversies. He doesn’t seem to have the mental resilience that Rashid does.

 

[HitWicket]

By the way some names were bandied about above and people forget Owais Shah. I did an analysis of Owais and compared him to the way Collingwood was treated. Its on this forum somewhere in days past. It was very interesting to see how much support collingwood was given compared to Owais as they started around the same time..

Would be interested to see this comparison, struggling to see how each decision to drop Shah during his test carer wasn't completely justifiable.

 

[Robert]

Root on Moeen: "It was not about asking him if he wanted to stay. It was a decision he chose. He wants to get out the bubble and that is absolutely fair enough. We respect where he is at."

Very strange. Got wickets, top-scored in a losing cause.

Ah well, he has to do what is best for him. We have to do what we can to look after our mental health.

 

[Robert]

That's true and I'm not saying he has been discriminated against but he is treated differently. The benefit of doubt is lower. Also he has been played pretty much out of position for most of his career. Yet he has soldiered on stoically. He was somebody who could have been a great batsman for England but he managed to carve out a niche for himself which in itself has been a plus. I rate him very highly considering the system and the treatment that is meted out in English cricket to minorities.

By the way some names were bandied about above and people forget Owais Shah. I did an analysis of Owais and compared him to the way Collingwood was treated. Its on this forum somewhere in days past. It was very interesting to see how much support collingwood was given compared to Owais as they started around the same time..

I get the impression that Colly would knuckle down and do whatever was asked while Ace was a bit gobby, which didn’t go down well with the management of the time.

Also Ace was a batsman who couldn’t field well, while Colly was electric in the field, and could bowl useful medium pace.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I do think Owais Shah was slightly hard done by, perhaps the same for Ajmal Shazad. Ajmal didn't have the best overall FC record but deserved more than one chance in test match cricket.

Those days are definitely over though in English International Cricket. You can see how accommodating the dressing room is and they have fostered a great cultured of unity.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Moeen had a chance to cement his place in the test side, but he chose to go home so he could get a break before the ipl season.

He shouldnt be moaning and whinning to anyone he chose ipl over eng. He was definilty gonna play the rest of the series.

 

[Kroll]

Root on Moeen: "It was not about asking him if he wanted to stay. It was a decision he chose. He wants to get out the bubble and that is absolutely fair enough. We respect where he is at."

Moeen's a big softie. What rubbish is this? Moeen's not the only player or individual affected by covid. He's chosen to be a professional cricketer, he can see his family after the series. smh

 

[Mamoon]

Moeen has once again shown what a mental midget he really is. You finally get a chance in Test cricket, you fluke a half-decent performance and now you are running away again to let someone else take your spot and keep you out.

The day isn’t far off when ECB will communicate to him in clear terms that he is no longer an option for England.

 

[shaz619]

Moeen's a big softie. What rubbish is this? Moeen's not the only player or individual affected by covid. He's chosen to be a professional cricketer, he can see his family after the series. smh

His leave was pre-agreed, just as it was for the likes of Butler, Bairstow etc however it seems he is being demonised for it compared to the others, moreover England don’t value Moeen as a Test cricketer and haven’t given him a red ball contract either / is their 3rd spin option. Despite that, if England really all of a sudden saw value in him specifically because of his performance in this Test (ironic as some still consider him rubbish) , then they could have chosen to rest him for the LOI leg of the tour and asked him to play the remaining Tests.

 

[LeedsGreen]

this thread perfectly highlights people who simply look at stats and not actual performances.

moeen is and has been a very handy all rounder and brilliant positive role model who is highly thought of my the majority of england fans, with numerous noticable performances with the ball (specifically against india and south africa) - mediocre players do not take almost 200 test wickets at a strike rate similar to that of yasir shah yet in english conditions as opposed to UAE dustbowls and aside from a bad year witrh the ball in 2016 ( his best batting year btw) averaged around 30 with the ball. ye shes no atg but this thread screams out the usual bitterness and jealousy seen by pakistani fans in all walks of life finding ways to belittle and put down others achievements, up until the very recent emergence of leech he has been the best spinner in england and deserves more respect.

 

[LeedsGreen]

as for discrimation in english cricket against south asians, it is still extremely prevelant having witnessed it first hand for many years playing cricket in west yorkshire and in particular the bradford league- it is an embeeded systemic issue that goes all the way down to young childrens cricket and whilst the national team seems to be doing a good job at accomdating and respecting differences, the opposite is true at grass roots level and moeen is a rare example of a visible positive role model and yet he is attacked by members of his community instead of being celebrated for having a relatively successful career

 

[LeedsGreen]

Moeen's a big softie. What rubbish is this? Moeen's not the only player or individual affected by covid. He's chosen to be a professional cricketer, he can see his family after the series. smh

he is the only member of the squad to have actually test positive and id reccommend and ask people to refrain commenting on peoples mental strength with no understanding of the situation of that persons physical/ mental health... someone who has played for his country for as long as he has having been in and out of the team deserves more respect than to be called mental midgits by people who sit on internet forums trolling and name calling

 

[Forum363]

Moeen has once again shown what a mental midget he really is. You finally get a chance in Test cricket, you fluke a half-decent performance and now you are running away again to let someone else take your spot and keep you out.

The day isn’t far off when ECB will communicate to him in clear terms that he is no longer an option for England.

So Moeen requests to be let out of the bubble after spending a hellish period during which he literally contracted covid and was restricted to his room followed by being thrown into the demands of a test match... and he’s a mental midget...

Vs Archer who you fully support after he knowingly breaks the rules, drives home, keeps it a secret and puts hundreds of people + tens of millions of pounds at risk, then hardly shows remorse.

Shows your double standards there.

 

[LeedsGreen]

So Moeen requests to be let out of the bubble after spending a hellish period during which he literally contracted covid and was restricted to his room followed by being thrown into the demands of a test match... and he’s a mental midget...

Vs Archer who you fully support after he knowingly breaks the rules, drives home, keeps it a secret and puts hundreds of people + tens of millions of pounds at risk, then hardly shows remorse.

Shows your double standards there.

not to mention numerous other members of the squad including jos buttler mamoons hero also left the squad for the very same reasons... lets call a spade, a spade , its pretty clear to all.

 

[BigShak]

The decision for Moeen to take a break was taken beforehand however the reaction in the British media and certain suspects on here is typical. The likes of Buttler, Barstow and Archer can take leave but lo behold when Moeen takes it he’s called a coward and accused of running away.

 

[BigShak]

Whatever the resident Indians and Pakistanis here think. Moeen will always be a legend for British Pakistanis no matter how mediocre people might think. The haters on here can do one.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Moeen Ali is a mentally weak cricketer. He has proven so time and time again.

Despite being a fairly good all-rounder who has gives outstanding performances with both bat and ball from time to time he is not strong enough mentally. Just look at the way Lyon made him his bunny and completely shattered his confidence a few years ago to a point where ECB just told him to take some time off.

Here again, he gave a pretty good performance: took 8 wickets, got Kohli out twice and nearly smashed the fastest Test 50. Eventhough it was all in a losing cause this should have served as his entry back into the test side after 2 years. But instead he has just chosen to put his hands up and abandon the team when they needed him most.

And I did not get the impression that his leave was pre-arranged from Root's comments. Root said it was a personal decision by Moeen and that they respected it eventhough England wanted as many players available as possible.

 

[Bilal7]

It's no surprise at all that the usual suspects are out here criticizing a man who just took 8 wickets against India and put a phainty on their spinners on a minefield of a pitch. He has a better bowling average against India than any other English spinner. His two centuries in India is a dream for most English batsmen.

With inconsistent cricketers like him and Shahid Afridi, statistics don't tell you anything. At their worst, they're very mediocre but at their best, they win games on their own with bat and ball and Moeen has done that plenty of times in his career, across formats. He's far better than any other English player with South Asian descent, except for Adil Rashid, who partly credits Moeen for his success.

Additionally, it might be difficult to understand for those who have no families but at the end of the day, for most, good people, family is more important than work. Moeen's been struck by Covid, has been in isolation, suffered injuries and would have been away from his home for months. Anyone criticizing him for doing this is either a child or a terrible family man. This leave was pre-arranged, despite what some flat-earthers believe and so many others have also taken similar breaks. It's a non-issue.

He also does not have a central contract in test cricket. If England valued him so much, they should have given him a contract before their tours to Asia, instead of begging him to stay after he showed everyone that he's better than Leach and miles better than Bess. Like Joe Root said, Moeen is going to come back in test cricket. He's 33 and he's not done just yet.

 

[ahmedzee]

This is quite prevalent in the western society, unfortunately. It is not just about cricketers or sportsman, this is quite the norm in corporate world in the west. An asian has to prove his/her worth, while the white privileged kid can slack off and get away with it, infact at times is promoted by doing almost nothing.

This won't change until there are open laws on systematic racism. It will take decades.

 

[Bilal7]

This is quite prevalent in the western society, unfortunately. It is not just about cricketers or sportsman, this is quite the norm in corporate world in the west. An asian has to prove his/her worth, while the white privileged kid can slack off and get away with it, infact at times is promoted by doing almost nothing.

This won't change until there are open laws on systematic racism. It will take decades.

This is not the case in Canada, Alhamdulillah. However, I've heard that England still struggles on this front. It's getting better though. Despite this current debacle, the English team seems to be very accepting of its Muslim cricketers. The racism comes from some ignorant fans and foreign bigots. You can hardly blame the England team management for that.

 

[BigShak]

Moeen Ali is a mentally weak cricketer. He has proven so time and time again.

Despite being a fairly good all-rounder who has gives outstanding performances with both bat and ball from time to time he is not strong enough mentally. Just look at the way Lyon made him his bunny and completely shattered his confidence a few years ago to a point where ECB just told him to take some time off.

Here again, he gave a pretty good performance: took 8 wickets, got Kohli out twice and nearly smashed the fastest Test 50. Eventhough it was all in a losing cause this should have served as his entry back into the test side after 2 years. But instead he has just chosen to put his hands up and abandon the team when they needed him most.

And I did not get the impression that his leave was pre-arranged from Root's comments. Root said it was a personal decision by Moeen and that they respected it eventhough England wanted as many players available as possible.

Root has apologised to Moeen for his comments and making it seem like Moeen made this decision out of the blue. But yeah you man carry on calling the guy a coward and mentally weak for wanting to go back to his family after having to isolate in a room with Covid for 2 weeks.

 

[MenInG]

So Moeen requests to be let out of the bubble after spending a hellish period during which he literally contracted covid and was restricted to his room followed by being thrown into the demands of a test match... and he’s a mental midget...

Vs Archer who you fully support after he knowingly breaks the rules, drives home, keeps it a secret and puts hundreds of people + tens of millions of pounds at risk, then hardly shows remorse.

Shows your double standards there.

Think the issue isnt Moeen - its his ethnic background that some dont like - Lord only knows!

 

[Forum363]

Think the issue isnt Moeen - its his ethnic background that some dont like - Lord only knows!

Imagine contracting a disease which has killed millions while in a strange country, having to isolate in a hotel room while your family suffers back home, then coming out of the isolation to make a comeback where you take 8 wickets against the best batting lineup at home without any match practise, not to mention the attacking innings - to then go home as per the prearranged discussion, only for the British media and biased fans to attack you for being mentally weak.

If this isn't racism, what is.

The same people were even defending Stokes after his violent altercation outside the bar.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=139758]pillionrider[/MENTION] Nasser's dad is Indian Kashmiri and his Mum is White English . Nasser was a trendsetter in one sense but Nasser was never really seen as an Asian in the same way Moeen or Rashid or Ravi Bopara is. Cos Nasser was brought up in a very white british environment and hes not a religious guy hes very anglicised guy who would be involved in the alcohol n drinking culture dominant in cricket at that time. Someone like moeen from an inner city ethnic minority area is more of a breakthrough in that regard. Nasser is more of an outlier

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] moeen was always scheduled to leave after the 2nd test. He isnt even on a red ball contract with england he is seen as a white ball specialist now. They wanted him to stay for longer after the 2nd test n he said no . Does that make him a mental midget ? When he's doing what all the other guys are doing who play all 3 formats.

 

[Adil_94]

Moeen does seem to be get scapegoated very quickly by the english cricketing media

 

[HitWicket]

Imagine contracting a disease which has killed millions while in a strange country, having to isolate in a hotel room while your family suffers back home, then coming out of the isolation to make a comeback where you take 8 wickets against the best batting lineup at home without any match practise, not to mention the attacking innings - to then go home as per the prearranged discussion, only for the British media and biased fans to attack you for being mentally weak.

If this isn't racism, what is.

The same people were even defending Stokes after his violent altercation outside the bar.

Can I ask where you're seeing the media calling him mentally week for going home?

 

[LeedsGreen]

This is not the case in Canada, Alhamdulillah. However, I've heard that England still struggles on this front. It's getting better though. Despite this current debacle, the English team seems to be very accepting of its Muslim cricketers. The racism comes from some ignorant fans and foreign bigots. You can hardly blame the England team management for that.

whilst the prejudice is still felt from the bigot, an added layer in the uk is the 'mamoon' types from the british pakistani community that will do nothing but belittle the achievements of british pak athletes and sportsman - you see similar sorta garbage about amir khan, who despite being a clown and in need of a better PR team and the polar opposite of moeen in terms of public appearance , is the best british pakistani combat athlete ever and yet faces similar sorts of belittlement from his own community despite having been a world champion - we love to criticise and put down and find faults and excuses to make others achievements seem lesser

 

[Kroll]

His leave was pre-agreed, just as it was for the likes of Butler, Bairstow etc however it seems he is being demonised for it compared to the others, moreover England don’t value Moeen as a Test cricketer and haven’t given him a red ball contract either / is their 3rd spin option. Despite that, if England really all of a sudden saw value in him specifically because of his performance in this Test (ironic as some still consider him rubbish) , then they could have chosen to rest him for the LOI leg of the tour and asked him to play the remaining Tests.

Okay, but what I read from Joe Roots comments was that he chose to leave whereby he still could have stayed and played as I understand it:

All-rounder Moeen Ali has chosen to miss England's final two Tests of the tour of India.

He returned match figures of 8-226 in the 317-run defeat in the second Test in Chennai, his first Test since August 2019.

The 33-year-old contracted coronavirus on the tour of Sri Lanka in January and spent 14 days in isolation.

"Moeen has chosen to go home. It's come to a point where he wants to get out of the bubble," said captain Joe Root.

"This tour has been really difficult for him, dealing with Covid and being in his room for such a long period of time.

"We said at the start if players feel like they need to get out of the bubble that would be an option, and it's important we stand by that."

England have implemented a rotation policy to help manage players' workload in a busy year that includes a possible 17 Tests and a Twenty20 World Cup.

They are also mindful of the wellbeing of the players with so much time spent in bio-secure 'bubbles' since the outbreak of coronavirus.

Moeen was recalled for the second Test at the expense of off-spinner Dom Bess, one of four changes to the side that won by 227 runs in Chennai last week.

England's all-time leading wicket-taker James Anderson was rested, wicketkeeper Jos Buttler returned home after the first Test and pace bowler Jofra Archer missed out with an elbow injury.

Archer and Ben Stokes sat out both Tests in Sri Lanka, while Jonny Bairstow, Sam Curran and Mark Wood missed the first two Tests in India.

'He wants to be at home with his family'

Moeen took a break from Test cricket in 2019 and struggled to regain his place before being recalled for the 2-0 series win in Sri Lanka.

He took 4-128 and 4-98 in the second Test against India, and his tally of 49 runs - including 43 off 18 balls as England's defeat was confirmed on the fourth afternoon - was more than any other England player.

"It wasn't about us asking Moeen if he wanted to stay. It was a decision that he chose," said Root.

"We want as many of the players to be available for as long as possible, but we also want them to be comfortable here.

"He feels he wants to be at home with his family and we completely respect that."

While England have rotated players for Tests, their squad for the five-match Twenty20 series in India that starts on 12 March is full strength as Eoin Morgan's side prepare for the T20 World Cup in India in October.

Moeen is in that squad and will also be part of this week's auction for the Indian Premier League, which runs from April to June.

Michael Vaughan, who captained England in 51 of his 82 Tests, told the Test Match Special podcast: "This year is about winning the Ashes. I know there's a T20 World Cup but for English cricket it's about getting those Ashes back.

"Surely the Test team takes preference over the T20 team. They should be getting all their eggs into the basket to make sure by the time they get to Australia they're a team that has played a lot of cricket together."

The third Test of England's four-match series in India starts on 24 February in Ahmedabad.

Analysis

BBC cricket correspondent Jonathan Agnew

Moeen has not had a great time. But he got himself back in the side and scored some runs, hit the ball sweetly at the end, and took some wickets. Now he is going home.

Joe Root and the management made it clear at the start of the tour that if a player wanted to go home, he will go home. That has always been a part of the deal. So they cannot turn round to Moeen and say 'you are not going home'.

It is just a really difficult situation. Moeen had 10 days or so stuck in a room in Sri Lanka after testing positive so he clearly has not had an easy time. It will have been a difficult decision for him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56082356

 

[Buffet]

Mental health is more important. Ali was already scheduled to leave. It is not different than others getting a break in the Eng team.

 

[Kroll]

Is Joe Root trying to throw Moeen Ali under the bus here? Is there more to it than meets the eye?

 

[LeedsGreen]

Is Joe Root trying to throw Moeen Ali under the bus here? Is there more to it than meets the eye?

id be very surprised by it, having met him on a few occaisions root seems like a genuinely good guy and i dont see why he would be out to 'get' moeen, think its simply a case of a mountain out of a molehill from sections of the media, as nasser hussain said it is the same as the buttler, bairstow situations

 

[James]

Joe Root was a bit foggy and tired out after a poor and stressful Test match for the team, I think he just misspoke. Joe isn’t the type to cut his teammates throats.

 

[Ashmal]

Moeen had a chance to cement his place in the test side, but he chose to go home so he could get a break before the ipl season.

He shouldnt be moaning and whinning to anyone he chose ipl over eng. He was definilty gonna play the rest of the series.

It was agreed pre-series that he will go home after 2 tests....but Eng selectors changed their minds at last minute and asked him to stay and he refused which is well within his right.

Many others like Butler, Archer, Wood, Stokes, Bairstow have also been rotated and they all will play IPL.

Moeen is being targeted unfairly

 

[Kroll]

It was agreed pre-series that he will go home after 2 tests....but Eng selectors changed their minds at last minute and asked him to stay and he refused which is well within his right.

Many others like Butler, Archer, Wood, Stokes, Bairstow have also been rotated and they all will play IPL.

Moeen is being targeted unfairly

Doesn't seem that way from Joe Root's comments. The agreement appears to be that if a player "chose" to go home he could which Moeen has availed.

 

[Abdullah719]

Joe Root acknowledges mistake in saying Moeen Ali ‘chose’ to go home

Joe Root has spoken to Moeen Ali privately and acknowledged his mistake after leaving the all-rounder open to criticism from supporters by calling his pre-agreed exit from India something he had “chosen” to do.

As a multi-format player, Moeen is the latest to take time out of the three-month subcontinental tour as part of England’s rest and rotation policy that has led Ben Stokes, Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow, Mark Wood and Sam Curran to miss Test matches in order to stave of so-called “bubble fatigue”.

England had hoped Moeen might forgo his 10-day break at home following eight wickets his first Test in 18 months. But having spent 20 days of the tour in isolation – he contracted Covid-19 before England landed in Sri Lanka and also had to quarantine in India – Moeen has stuck to the original plan.

================

The comments differed from previous explanations of the rotation policy in which the England management looked to publicly own the decisions and take any resulting criticism. It prompted the former England captain Nasser Hussain to tell Sky Sports that Moeen “had been hung out to dry” in comparison to others.

Root is understood to have since spoken to Moeen back at the team hotel to apologise for implying this was a unilateral decision and reassure him of his value to the setup before he returns home to his family.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ecover-from-india-mauling-cricket-second-test

 

[Bilal7]

Doesn't seem that way from Joe Root's comments. The agreement appears to be that if a player "chose" to go home he could which Moeen has availed.

You're wrong. Moeen is being rotated just like any of the other players. Ironically, there wouldn't be any problems here if Moeen hadn't shown that he's still the best English spinner in test cricket.

whilst the prejudice is still felt from the bigot, an added layer in the uk is the 'mamoon' types from the british pakistani community that will do nothing but belittle the achievements of british pak athletes and sportsman - you see similar sorta garbage about amir khan, who despite being a clown and in need of a better PR team and the polar opposite of moeen in terms of public appearance , is the best british pakistani combat athlete ever and yet faces similar sorts of belittlement from his own community despite having been a world champion - we love to criticise and put down and find faults and excuses to make others achievements seem lesser

As far as I'm aware, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is not a British Pakistani and even if he is, he does not represent them in any way. It's some British Indians that go after guys like Moeen, Rashid and that new English fast bowler. Just unwilling to let go of the hatred they were fed since they were born. You can see some of that in this thread as well. These are the people I was referring to as foreign bigots that have no stake in English cricket.

 

[ahmedzee]

This is not the case in Canada, Alhamdulillah. However, I've heard that England still struggles on this front. It's getting better though. Despite this current debacle, the English team seems to be very accepting of its Muslim cricketers. The racism comes from some ignorant fans and foreign bigots. You can hardly blame the England team management for that.

My friend, where do you think I am stating my experiences from? Canada! (Ontario, Quebec, AB, BC, SK). And I am specifically referring to corporate culture here, not a random terrorist attack (like we had in QC mosque). It is just unfortunate! Makes me truly sad.

 

[Forum363]

Some more facts to provide context:

- England use a rotation policy to manage their heavy schedule for all format players. Stokes and Archer rested in Sri Lanka. Wood and Bairstow rested for first two test matches. Butler rested after the first Test. Moeen was told he will return to England after the first two tests.

- Mooen comfortably outbowls the best spin bowlers who have had ample opportunity to cement their place in the team. 8 wickets against this Indian line-up at home is no mean feat.

- After the match Root claims Moeen 'chose' to return home. A word not used for any other player despite the management agreeing Moeen's rotation policy before the series.

- The selector Smith asks Moeen to stay back. A request not made to any other player. Essentially putting Moeen in a position of choosing between the team or his family who have suffered at home while he had covid.

- Moeen is not a centrally contracted Test player so Smith has not shown commitment to him. (interestingly Smith dropped Moeen from a full contract shortly after he was the world's highest wicket taker).

- Moeen gets a grand total of ONE WEEK at home before he returns for the t20s. With the IPL coming up, its likely he won't be home for another 3 month. So its not just a case of staying on for another match, its not being able to see your family for 5 months. He has two young kids.

- Root eventually realised his mistake and double standards and apologised to Moeen for the way he portrayed it, however the damage has already been done.

 

[Zaz]

Ecb double standards are on full show again


Moeen has chosen to go home whereas the likes of buttler and co have been rested Ones made a scapegoat for the media leaving a team in the lurch the others go home smelling of roses

Its been agreed before the series he was to go home after the first two tests just like archer buttler bairstow n co but they way theyve singled him out smacks of differential treatment

One rule for one a different one for him Then people say there isnt discrimination or it isnt harder for asians to make it in england

 

[HitWicket]

- Mooen comfortably outbowls the best spin bowlers who have had ample opportunity to cement their place in the team. 8 wickets against this Indian line-up at home is no mean feat.

You're kidding right? No one who watched the match could genuinely make the claim that he comfortably outbowled Leach.

- The selector Smith asks Moeen to stay back. A request not made to any other player. Essentially putting Moeen in a position of choosing between the team or his family who have suffered at home while he had covid.

- Moeen gets a grand total of ONE WEEK at home before he returns for the t20s. With the IPL coming up, its likely he won't be home for another 3 month. So its not just a case of staying on for another match, its not being able to see your family for 5 months. He has two young kids.

The reports have suggested that Moeen was given the choice of staying around for an extra test and missing out on the T20I series instead, not just sticking out there for the entire tour and IPL.

 

[Zaz]

You're kidding right? No one who watched the match could genuinely make the claim that he comfortably outbowled Leach.



The reports have suggested that Moeen was given the choice of staying around for an extra test and missing out on the T20I series instead, not just sticking out there for the entire tour and IPL.

So you think hes been fairly treated n not scapegoated?

 

[Forum363]

You're kidding right? No one who watched the match could genuinely make a claim like that.



The reports have suggested that Moeen was given the choice of staying around for an extra test and missing out on the T20I series instead, not just sticking out there for the entire tour and IPL.

Just to clarify as that may have been misleading - he comfortably out bowled Leach and Bess who have been given ample time to cement their place in England's test side during Moeen's hiatus. Not referring to the likes of Ashwin who is a class apart. If you understood that and disagree that Moeen was much better than Leach and Bess, then I guess we have different view points.

As to your second point - so he was (reportedly) given the option of extending an already long period in the bubble during which he has contracted covid, and play in a format which is gruelling, and he has not been given a contract for, as opposed to going home immediately to see his kids, get a much needed rest as planned and return for a format where he can build up his form for the IPL and world t20, two highest opportunities for a limited overs cricketer... Honestly speaking which option would you pick?

And when he selects the option that makes complete sense and has already been agreed he is openly bashed for 'choosing' to miss the tests.

Question is, why was he even asked this. Was Archer asked if he wanted to play a match in Sri Lanka to improve his terrible overseas bowling record and build up some form? Was butler asked if he could continue to play in the Tests as he could easily miss the t20's with the amount of firepower England have in their lineup?

 

[Kroll]

Some more facts to provide context:

- England use a rotation policy to manage their heavy schedule for all format players. Stokes and Archer rested in Sri Lanka. Wood and Bairstow rested for first two test matches. Butler rested after the first Test. Moeen was told he will return to England after the first two tests.

- Mooen comfortably outbowls the best spin bowlers who have had ample opportunity to cement their place in the team. 8 wickets against this Indian line-up at home is no mean feat.

- After the match Root claims Moeen 'chose' to return home. A word not used for any other player despite the management agreeing Moeen's rotation policy before the series.

- The selector Smith asks Moeen to stay back. A request not made to any other player. Essentially putting Moeen in a position of choosing between the team or his family who have suffered at home while he had covid.

- Moeen is not a centrally contracted Test player so Smith has not shown commitment to him. (interestingly Smith dropped Moeen from a full contract shortly after he was the world's highest wicket taker).

- Moeen gets a grand total of ONE WEEK at home before he returns for the t20s. With the IPL coming up, its likely he won't be home for another 3 month. So its not just a case of staying on for another match, its not being able to see your family for 5 months. He has two young kids.

- Root eventually realised his mistake and double standards and apologised to Moeen for the way he portrayed it, however the damage has already been done.

Good post about the turn of events, so looks like he got played. Although, I'm not too fussed about him being away from home.

He chose this career and knows the sacrifices that need to be made as an international cricketer. If he's going to the IPL, then that would be beneficial for his family in earning all that moolah.

 

[Forum363]

Good post about the turn of events, so looks like he got played. Although, I'm not too fussed about him being away from home.

He chose this career and knows the sacrifices that need to be made as an international cricketer. If he's going to the IPL, then that would be beneficial for his family in earning all that moolah.

Every single England player chose this career. During an unprecedented global pandemic, the management decided a rotation policy to manage the wellbeing of the players. When Archer breached the rules, hid this and put everyone in jeopardy, everyone jumped to his defence about how difficult it must be for him to isolate in his hotel room. They backed and scheduled other players to take breaks and clearly stated in the media this was their policy.

Moeen contracted covid and was stuck in a room for a much longer time. He was also scheduled to go home. But when the time came, he was 'given an option to stay' unlike any other player and thrown under the bus by his captain instead of the management taking ownership.

These are not the sacrifices required by an international cricketer - its the racist treatment of asian cricketers within the English set up.

 

[Forum363]

Moeen's a big softie. What rubbish is this? Moeen's not the only player or individual affected by covid. He's chosen to be a professional cricketer, he can see his family after the series. smh

A classic example of someone who rushes to comment without knowing the facts.

 

[Forum363]

Moeen had a chance to cement his place in the test side, but he chose to go home so he could get a break before the ipl season.

He shouldnt be moaning and whinning to anyone he chose ipl over eng. He was definilty gonna play the rest of the series.

What about Butler, Curran, Wood? Did you say the same about them?

 

[Adil_94]

Moeen was always scheduled to leave after the 2nd test to take a 10 day break and then return for the T20i leg of the tour.

What happened was that after Moeen's good performance in the 2nd test and England losing confidence in Dom Bess. Ed Smith the national selector last minute asked Moeen whether he could stay on for the rest of the Test series. Moeen declined and stuck to the original plan.

The same Ed Smith who didnt give Moeen a red ball contract. And has previously criticised Moeen in media interviews for performances and his mentality. So the relationship is hardly a good one.

Root has apologised for the slip of the tongue. Hope all the Moeen haters eat some humble pie now.

 

[HitWicket]

So you think hes been fairly treated n not scapegoated?

No, I think Root misspoke and was probably a bit too truthful. Moeen himself conceded at the start of the series that he and the management weren't 100% sure when he was going to take his rest yet. Evidently the management and Moeen have now decided that he'll definitely take the break now but by all accounts these aren't discussions that Root was part of.

Just to clarify as that may have been misleading - he comfortably out bowled Leach and Bess who have been given ample time to cement their place in England's test side during Moeen's hiatus. Not referring to the likes of Ashwin who is a class apart. If you understood that and disagree that Moeen was much better than Leach and Bess, then I guess we have different view points.

As to your second point - so he was (reportedly) given the option of extending an already long period in the bubble during which he has contracted covid, and play in a format which is gruelling, and he has not been given a contract for, as opposed to going home immediately to see his kids, get a much needed rest as planned and return for a format where he can build up his form for the IPL and world t20, two highest opportunities for a limited overs cricketer... Honestly speaking which option would you pick?

And when he selects the option that makes complete sense and has already been agreed he is openly bashed for 'choosing' to miss the tests.

Question is, why was he even asked this. Was Archer asked if he wanted to play a match in Sri Lanka to improve his terrible overseas bowling record and build up some form? Was butler asked if he could continue to play in the Tests as he could easily miss the t20's with the amount of firepower England have in their lineup?

I'm not sure you'd find many that watched the match that would agree that Moeen 'comfortably outbowled' Leach.

If I was Moeen I'd have gone with the decision that he has, he's unlikely to cement a spot as the first choice spinner in the next test but he could quite easily lose his place in the T20 squad for good if he wasn't part of the squad for the India series. From a supporters point of view I'd have preferred to see him stick around for the extra test given that's the format where I think he can add the most to the team.

On a similar point I'd expect Archer wasn't given the choice Moeen was. Archer's a sure starter in our T20 team where we're clearly trying to go full strength with the WT20 coming up. Moeen's a fringe member of the T20 team, quite arguably should've been out of the limited overs squads a while back and like I says offers more to the test squad.

 

[Kroll]

A classic example of someone who rushes to comment without knowing the facts.

What do you mean? I acknowledged the subsequent points you made and previously, I went with the "facts" presented at the time which were from authoritative sources.

Plus this little story isn't over yet. I think there's more to come out of this.

 

[street cricketer]

[MENTION=139758]pillionrider[/MENTION] Nasser's dad is Indian Kashmiri and his Mum is White English . Nasser was a trendsetter in one sense but Nasser was never really seen as an Asian in the same way Moeen or Rashid or Ravi Bopara is. Cos Nasser was brought up in a very white british environment and hes not a religious guy hes very anglicised guy who would be involved in the alcohol n drinking culture dominant in cricket at that time. Someone like moeen from an inner city ethnic minority area is more of a breakthrough in that regard. Nasser is more of an outlier

Nasser's father is Kashmiri? I always thought he was from the urdu speaking muslim community of Tamil Nadu.

His father talks about supporting India earlier. Kinda odd for a Kashmiri to support India in cricket.

 

[pillionrider]

[MENTION=139758]pillionrider[/MENTION] Nasser's dad is Indian Kashmiri and his Mum is White English . Nasser was a trendsetter in one sense but Nasser was never really seen as an Asian in the same way Moeen or Rashid or Ravi Bopara is. Cos Nasser was brought up in a very white british environment and hes not a religious guy hes very anglicised guy who would be involved in the alcohol n drinking culture dominant in cricket at that time. Someone like moeen from an inner city ethnic minority area is more of a breakthrough in that regard. Nasser is more of an outlier

Thanks. Think Nasser's dad was from Chennai though. He was born there as far as I know. Also, there's some royalty lineage thing on his father's side.

So it would have been private schools and the like with Nasser, though I find him more grounded and not snobbish compared to someone like David Lloyd who tries to sell himself as the people's man.

@the_Great_Khan Was going to bring up Owais Shah. Have seen a smattering of him in England colours but a lot during his IPL days. Seemed ridiculously gifted. Always wondered what went wrong with him for England and put it down to attitude conflicts - he had that look about him

I don't know if Collingwood is the appropriate comparison. Seems like someone as dedicated and dependable like Collingwood would always have a place in the England team. Owais would probably have had to fit in, in place of someone else. But that's just a casual watcher's view.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Root has apologised to Moeen for his comments and making it seem like Moeen made this decision out of the blue. But yeah you man carry on calling the guy a coward and mentally weak for wanting to go back to his family after having to isolate in a room with Covid for 2 weeks.

Root can apologize all he wants. Doesn't change the fact that this is England's most important series since the Ashes, on which their World Test Championship final hopes lie. And Moeen as arguably their best spinner and a batsman who has proven he can bat in India was one of their most important players.

Pakistani players contracted COVID last year and had to isolate aswell. Did not hear any of them wanting to go home. Its a difficult time for everyone, you deal with it without making excuses. Root and the other players have been on the road just as much as Moeen. Don't hear them making any excuses.

Moeen is mentally weak, and this s not the first time he has proven himself to be mentally weak.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Moeen Ali is well within his rights to take a break and poor choice of words from Root.
Its easy to say bio bubble and living in hotels is a small sacrifice for the privilege.. but as sportsman they are tuned to outdoor life. Cricketers or any sports people should be able to take a break whenever required without any judgement whatsoever.

 

[Robert]

Moeen for me will always be an inspirational figure. To come from where he did that is inspirational for any young asian in the UK.

the way he gets treated by management is simply the way successful asians get treated in british institutions.

He has done incredibly to carve out a decent career and has won his fair share. Its a pity he couldnt become a regular batsman as I feel he had more potential there. Overall i would say he has been Englands most successful Asian cricketer.

Inshallah I'll visit his fish and chip shop in birmingham. (he said he would love to open one when his career ends)

Nasser for me. Inherited a shambolic team rated bottom in the world, won in Pakistan and SL, and beat WI.

 

[Manunited18]

Nasser for me. Inherited a shambolic team rated bottom in the world, won in Pakistan and SL, and beat WI.

Moeen will retire from Test cricket after this, met the guy during 2018 test series in England, the guy is a absolute gentleman as you can get and deserves respect , Roots comments were unnecessary knowing the vulture media we have here.

 

[Robert]

Moeen will retire from Test cricket after this, met the guy during 2018 test series in England, the guy is a absolute gentleman as you can get and deserves respect , Roots comments were unnecessary knowing the vulture media we have here.

I’m sure he is.

Root said “It's come to a point where he [Moeen] wants to get out of the bubble. This tour has been really difficult for him, dealing with Covid and being in his room for such a long period of time. We said at the start if players feel like they need to get out of the bubble that would be an option, and it's important we stand by that."

That reads as supportive to me. ECB has a duty of care to the players’ mental health. Can’t have been easy, being stuck in a hotel room for a fortnight.

 

[Varun]

Sorry - he loses all credibility if he is going to come back for the IPL.

Making himself look like another gold digger.

 

[Zaz]

Nasser for me. Inherited a shambolic team rated bottom in the world, won in Pakistan and SL, and beat WI.

Most asians would say moeen because they can relate to him He comes from the inner city from a working class family someone whos been brought up in a typical asian ethnic household

Not taking anything away from nasser whos a great bloke but hes seen to be more white than asian

 

[Manunited18]

I’m sure he is.

Root said “It's come to a point where he [Moeen] wants to get out of the bubble. This tour has been really difficult for him, dealing with Covid and being in his room for such a long period of time. We said at the start if players feel like they need to get out of the bubble that would be an option, and it's important we stand by that."

That reads as supportive to me. ECB has a duty of care to the players’ mental health. Can’t have been easy, being stuck in a hotel room for a fortnight.

Root aknowledges his mistake and apologises to Moeen what is being billed as a slip of the tongue. The problem is the press made it out to be a clear blame game on Moeen and I'm sure the player will think this is all unnecessary.

 

[Manunited18]

Sorry - he loses all credibility if he is going to come back for the IPL.

Making himself look like another gold digger.

Big bucks, even though I have very little fascination of the IPL.

 

[Zaz]

Sorry - he loses all credibility if he is going to come back for the IPL.

Making himself look like another gold digger.

They all are then buttler archer stokes Why single moeen out?

 

[the Great Khan]

I get the impression that Colly would knuckle down and do whatever was asked while Ace was a bit gobby, which didn’t go down well with the management of the time.

Also Ace was a batsman who couldn’t field well, while Colly was electric in the field, and could bowl useful medium pace.

Im sure me you and james had a discussion about this issue years ago on this forum. My issue with the Owais comparison was the intolerance for the type of lads owais and ajmal and others were. Confident adian lads with a point to prove. And your right, the management of the time probably didnt like the "gobby" asian lad who's getting to big for his boots, hence he got dropped and yoyoed through the team.

I guess Collingwood came across as the working class northern lad who got on with it.

 

[Sir-fraz]

What about Butler, Curran, Wood? Did you say the same about them?

I dont see them moaning and playing religious politics.

Moeen had a chance to stay but declined. Butler, curran and wood dont olay the same role as moeen and everyone already knows they are not test players.

 

[the Great Khan]

They all are then buttler archer stokes Why single moeen out?

trying to figure out whats the difference between moeen and those guys..mnnh..just cant figure it out..

 

[Manunited18]

I dont see them moaning and playing religious politics.

Moeen had a chance to stay but declined. Butler, curran and wood dont olay the same role as moeen and everyone already knows they are not test players.

Regarding moeen comingback home it was pre planned, lol buttler, wood, Curran are Test players.

 

[Manunited18]

trying to figure out whats the difference between moeen and those guys..mnnh..just cant figure it out..

Unfortunately I reckon Moeen will call time on his test career after this.

 

[HitWicket]

Im sure me you and james had a discussion about this issue years ago on this forum. My issue with the Owais comparison was the intolerance for the type of lads owais and ajmal and others were. Confident adian lads with a point to prove. And your right, the management of the time probably didnt like the "gobby" asian lad who's getting to big for his boots, hence he got dropped and yoyoed through the team.

I guess Collingwood came across as the working class northern lad who got on with it.

Shah was yoyoed through the team because whenever injuries occured and spaces opened up he could never outperform his competition for the spot. On the other hand Collingwood did. Like I said, none of his droppings were unjustifiable.

 

[Robert]

Root aknowledges his mistake and apologises to Moeen what is being billed as a slip of the tongue. The problem is the press made it out to be a clear blame game on Moeen and I'm sure the player will think this is all unnecessary.

I don’t understand why this was construed as a mistake.

 

[silentkiller187]

Sorry - he loses all credibility if he is going to come back for the IPL.

Making himself look like another gold digger.

why? this break was pre planned he was asked to stay on the 4th day by then he decided he wanted to return home, if he stays for the rest of the tour and IPL that means he would be on road for around 5/6 months which can be hard on anyone, these are the kind of comments that justify this thread and OP comments

 

[the Great Khan]

Unfortunately I reckon Moeen will call time on his test career after this.

He doesnt have a central contract so can pretty much decide to do that if he wants. He can easily play Leagues and he is a regular in the ODI setup. That chip shop is looking a good possibility in the next five to seven years.

I hope he gets into coaching young Asians and does something for the community which I think he will.

 

[the Great Khan]

Shah was yoyoed through the team because whenever injuries occured and spaces opened up he could never outperform his competition for the spot. On the other hand Collingwood did. Like I said, none of his droppings were unjustifiable.

thats what i thought, then I did an analysis on their initial careers and I found that he was dropped more immediatley if he failed as compared to collingwood who had very similar stats and actually worse at one point than him. Its the initial sponsorship that our Asian players dont get. you either come in strong and do something big or you are forever a yoyo..

Thats why Moeen is so different. He came and made a big impact but got some support from management who were a bit more progressive at the time. Also Eoin Morgan was a more tolerant pragmatic leader. Probably coz he wasnt English.

 

[Robert]

Im sure me you and james had a discussion about this issue years ago on this forum. My issue with the Owais comparison was the intolerance for the type of lads owais and ajmal and others were. Confident adian lads with a point to prove. And your right, the management of the time probably didnt like the "gobby" asian lad who's getting to big for his boots, hence he got dropped and yoyoed through the team.

I guess Collingwood came across as the working class northern lad who got on with it.

Previous discussion does ring a bell.

I met Ace briefly. I had a chat with his father at a Sunday League match. He was very proud of this son, who as I recall was hitting Somerset to all parts.

Ace seemed popular with the Middx boys, but I think Fletcher the England coach didn’t like him.

 

[Adil_94]

It was a pre arranged decision he was always going home after the 2nd test. ECB Chairman tried to ask him last minute to stay for the rest of the tests and Moeen declined. Hes just doing what archer buttler stokes bairstow etc have done . ECB did Moeen dirty by making it look like he left earlier than expected. Root has apologised to Moeen now anyway [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]

 

[the Great Khan]

Previous discussion does ring a bell.

I met Ace briefly. I had a chat with his father at a Sunday League match. He was very proud of this son, who as I recall was hitting Somerset to all parts.

Ace seemed popular with the Middx boys, but I think Fletcher the England coach didn’t like him.

Yeah I wouldnt be surprised. It was a different england then. If Owais was around now i think he would have gotten more opportunities.

 

[HitWicket]

thats what i thought, then I did an analysis on their initial careers and I found that he was dropped more immediatley if he failed as compared to collingwood who had very similar stats and actually worse at one point than him. Its the initial sponsorship that our Asian players dont get. you either come in strong and do something big or you are forever a yoyo..

Thats why Moeen is so different. He came and made a big impact but got some support from management who were a bit more progressive at the time. Also Eoin Morgan was a more tolerant pragmatic leader. Probably coz he wasnt English.

Shah got his debut on the 2006 India tour because of Cook (averaging 61 on his debut series so far) coming down with illness, Trescothick returning home and Vaughan missing the tour with injury. He had a pretty good debut but it would be extremely hard to justify not dropping him in favour of Cook and Trescothick come the first test of the next summer, especially given he didn't score any runs in the early county season prior to the squad being selected.

He had a pretty average county season and returned to the team at the start of the next summer thanks to injuries to Vaughan and Flintoff. He didn't score anything notable and Vaughan was fit and ready to return to captaining in the next game. Again, hard to justify him keeping his place over the captain or anyone else at the time.

His final chance then came in 2009 where he got 4 tests (1 of which was abandoned due to a dodgy outfield) coming in for the dropped Ian Bell in which he averaged 23.8. Due to Flintoff's fitness Ravi Bopara also got a chance later in the same series and scored a hundred in his only innings. When it came to picking the side for the series after that Bopara was preferred as a batting option over Shah resulting in him getting dropped from the test team for the final time. Like I said, I don't think any of these droppings can be argued to be unjustifiable.

After 6 tests across 3 stints he averaged 26.90. Comparatively after Collingwood's first 6 tests which occurred across 2 stints he averaged 46.50, along with being a more valuable part time bowling option and far superior fielder.

 

[Forum363]

I dont see them moaning and playing religious politics.

Moeen had a chance to stay but declined. Butler, curran and wood dont olay the same role as moeen and everyone already knows they are not test players.

Well that’s because they were ‘asked by the management’ to take a rest, and this happened as per schedule. Moeen was also asked, then they suddenly gave him the option of taking this back and spending 5 consecutive months in the bubble and not seeing his kids. He chose to stick with the original plan and was thrown under the bus unlike the other players who were backed by the management.

And sorry what? Butler, Curran and Wood have played fairly consistently for England over the recent past while Mooen has been out of the team. What do you mean they are not test players?

 

[Forum363]

What do you mean? I acknowledged the subsequent points you made and previously, I went with the "facts" presented at the time which were from authoritative sources.

Plus this little story isn't over yet. I think there's more to come out of this.

Well then you would have known that after this series he has to play the T20s and almost certainly the IPL. So no he can’t return after the series. He’ll be stuck in the bubble for months and not able to see his family.

He’s not the only player affected but he has clearly been treated differently to the others. Why? Because he’s Asian and this is English cricket.

 

[Forum363]

No, I think Root misspoke and was probably a bit too truthful. Moeen himself conceded at the start of the series that he and the management weren't 100% sure when he was going to take his rest yet. Evidently the management and Moeen have now decided that he'll definitely take the break now but by all accounts these aren't discussions that Root was part of.



I'm not sure you'd find many that watched the match that would agree that Moeen 'comfortably outbowled' Leach.

If I was Moeen I'd have gone with the decision that he has, he's unlikely to cement a spot as the first choice spinner in the next test but he could quite easily lose his place in the T20 squad for good if he wasn't part of the squad for the India series. From a supporters point of view I'd have preferred to see him stick around for the extra test given that's the format where I think he can add the most to the team.

On a similar point I'd expect Archer wasn't given the choice Moeen was. Archer's a sure starter in our T20 team where we're clearly trying to go full strength with the WT20 coming up. Moeen's a fringe member of the T20 team, quite arguably should've been out of the limited overs squads a while back and like I says offers more to the test squad.

Well it doesn’t matter what the supporters want, the man contracted covid and was stuck away from his family and hasn’t seen them in months. This is a serious situation and he deserves to go home. The supporters also would have wanted Stokes, Butler, Archer, Curran, Wood not to be rested.

With the World Cup in India, I highly doubt Moeen is as dispensable to the T20 squad given he’s the second best limited over spinner and an explosive batsman especially on these pitches. Remember England have given him a limited overs central contract but not a Test one so that’s the way they see him too.