Hamas started the war kidnapping and killing innocent hostages. And they still have them. And Israel is reacting. Thats why starting wars is so dangerous. Can escalate very quickly with unintended consequences. So, if you start a war, you got to be prepared for the consequences. Have always believed wars must be the last option. Such a criminal waste of precious human life. Tough as it seems - talks are still he best way out. But if Hamas is insistent on wiping Israel off the map , no place for Israelis, entire land is ours nonsense - then they can expect a furious backlash by Israel.
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[VIDEOS] Hezbollah, resistance force from Lebanon: A decades-long conflict with Israel
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Nikhil_cric
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This. They may be a brutal oppressor state .But we need to maintain ties with them while being neutral with the Palestinians .
We have been providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinians and we should continue that.
JaDed
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Gold Apollo says it did not make pagers used in Lebanon explosions
NEW TAIPEI, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Taiwan's Gold Apollo did not make the pagers that were used in the detonations in Lebanon on Tuesday, the company's founder Hsu Ching-Kuang told reporters on Wednesday.
At least nine people were killed and nearly 3,000 wounded when pagers used by Hezbollah members detonated simultaneously across Lebanon on Tuesday.
Images of destroyed pagers analysed by Reuters showed a format and stickers on the back that were consistent with pagers made by Gold Apollo. A senior Lebanese security source told Reuters that Hezbollah had ordered 5,000 pagers from the Taiwan-based Gold Apollo.
Hsu said the pagers used in the explosion were made by a company in Europe that had the right to use the Taiwanese firm's brand.
"The product was not ours. It was only that it had our brand on it,' he said.
Hsu did not name the company which he said manufactured the pagers, adding Gold Apollo was also a victim of the incident.
"We are a responsible company. This is very embarrassing," he said.
Hezbollah fighters began using pagers in the belief they would be able to evade Israeli tracking of their locations, two sources familiar with the group's operations told Reuters this year.
JaDed
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Europe is involved in this debacle as per above report, wonder which country that is.
Cpt. Rishwat
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It has implications for countries that don't have friendly relations with israel. Industries based in hostile countries can be manipulated by mossad it would seem, so if you are living in Syria or Kuwait, you may now be wary of buying products sourced from Taiwan manufacturers.
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What we know about the Hezbollah pager explosions
Thousands of people have been injured in Lebanon, after pagers used by the armed group Hezbollah to communicate dramatically exploded almost simultaneously across the country on Tuesday.
At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured, many of them seriously.
It is unclear how the attack - which looks to have been highly sophisticated - occurred, though Hezbollah has blamed its adversary Israel. Israeli officials have so far declined to comment.
Here is what we know so far.
When and where did it happen?
The blasts began in Lebanon's capital Beirut and several other areas of the country at about 15:45 local time (13:45 BST) on Tuesday.
Witnesses reported seeing smoke coming from people's pockets, before seeing small explosions that sounded like fireworks and gunshots.
In one clip, CCTV footage appeared to show an explosion in a man’s trouser pocket as he stood at a shop till.
Explosions continued for around an hour after the initial blasts, the Reuters news agency reported.
Soon after, scores of people began arriving at hospitals across Lebanon, with witnesses reporting scenes of mass confusion.
How did the pagers explode?
Analysts have been quick to express shock at the scale of Tuesday's attack - saying Hezbollah prides itself on its security measures.
Some suggested a hack may have caused the pager batteries to overheat, causing the devices to explode. Such an act would be unprecedented.
But many experts say that is unlikely, with footage of the explosions inconsistent with the batteries overheating.
Some analysts say instead that some sort of supply chain attack, which involved the pagers being tampered with during their manufacture or in transit, was more likely.
Supply chain attacks are a growing concern in the cyber security world with many high-profile incidents recently caused by hackers gaining access to products whilst they are in development.
But these attacks are normally contained to software. Hardware supply chain attacks are far rarer as they involve getting hands on to the device.
If this was indeed a supply chain attack it would have involved a huge operation to secretly tamper with the pagers in some way.
A former British Army munitions expert, who asked not to be named, told the BBC the devices could have been packed with between 10 to 20 grams each of military-grade high explosive, hidden inside a fake electronic component.
This, said the expert, would have been armed by a signal, something called an alphanumeric text message.
What is known about the victims?
A source close to Hezbollah told AFP that two of those killed were the sons of two Hezbollah MPs. They also said the daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
Among the injured was Iran's ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani. Reports in Iranian media said his injuries were minor.
Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah was not hurt in the explosions, Reuters reported quoting a source.
Lebanese Public Health Minister Firass Abiad said damage to the hands and face made up the majority of injuries.
Speaking to the BBC's Newshour programme, he said: "Most of the injuries appear to be to the face and especially to the eyes and also the hand with some amputations, whether it's in the hands or the fingers, and some of them have injuries to their flank."
He added: "The vast majority of the people who are presenting to the emergency rooms are in civilian clothes, so it's very difficult to discern whether they belong to a certain entity like Hezbollah or others...
"But we are seeing among them people who are old or people who are very young, like the child who unfortunately died... and there are some of them who are healthcare workers," the minister said.
Outside of Lebanon, 14 people were injured in similar blasts in neighbouring Syria, according to UK-based campaign group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Who is responsible?
So far, nobody has claimed responsibility - though Lebanon's prime minister and Hezbollah have blamed Israel.
Prime Minister Najib Mikati said the explosions represented a “serious violation of Lebanese sovereignty and a crime by all standards”.
In its statement accusing Israel of being behind the attacks, Hezbollah said it held the country "fully responsible for this criminal aggression that also targeted civilians".
"This treacherous and criminal enemy will certainly receive its just punishment for this sinful aggression, whether it expects it or not," it added.
Israeli officials have not commented on the allegations, but most analysts agree that it seems likely it is behind the attack.
Prof Simon Mabon, chair in International Relations at Lancaster University, told the BBC: "We know that Israel has a precedent of using technology to track its target" - but he called the scale of this attack "unprecedented".
Lina Khatib, from the UK-based Chatham House, said the attack suggested that Israel has "deeply" infiltrated Hezbollah's "communications network".
Why does Hezbollah use pagers?
Hezbollah has relied heavily on pagers as a low-tech means of communications to try to evade location-tracking by Israel.
A pager is a wireless telecommunications device that receives and displays alphanumeric or voice messages.
Mobile phones have long since been abandoned as simply too vulnerable, as Israel’s assassination of the Hamas bomb-maker Yahya Ayyash demonstrated as long ago as 1996, when his phone exploded in his hand.
But one Hezbollah operative told the AP news agency that the pagers were a new brand that the group had not used before.
Emily Harding, an ex-analyst with the CIA, said the security breach was deeply embarrassing to Hezbollah.
"A breach of this magnitude is not only physically harmful, but will also make them question their entire security apparatus," she told the BBC.
"I would expect to see them conduct an intensive internal investigation that will distract them from a potential fight with Israel."
Will the Hezbollah-Israel conflict escalate?
Hezbollah is allied with Israel's arch-nemesis in the region, Iran. The group is part of Tehran's Axis of Resistance and has been engaged in a low-level war with Israel for months, frequently exchanging rocket and missile fire across Israel's northern border. Entire communities have been displaced from both sides.
The blasts came just hours after Israel's security cabinet made the safe return of residents to the north of the country an official war goal.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a visiting US official that Israel would "do what is necessary to ensure its security".
Earlier on Monday, Israel's domestic security agency said it had thwarted a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate a former official.
Despite the ongoing tensions, observers say that until now both sides have aimed to contain hostilities without crossing the line into full-scale war. But there are fears that the situation could spiral out of control, with Hezbollah already threatening to respond to Tuesday's explosions.
BBC
Thousands of people have been injured in Lebanon, after pagers used by the armed group Hezbollah to communicate dramatically exploded almost simultaneously across the country on Tuesday.
At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured, many of them seriously.
It is unclear how the attack - which looks to have been highly sophisticated - occurred, though Hezbollah has blamed its adversary Israel. Israeli officials have so far declined to comment.
Here is what we know so far.
When and where did it happen?
The blasts began in Lebanon's capital Beirut and several other areas of the country at about 15:45 local time (13:45 BST) on Tuesday.
Witnesses reported seeing smoke coming from people's pockets, before seeing small explosions that sounded like fireworks and gunshots.
In one clip, CCTV footage appeared to show an explosion in a man’s trouser pocket as he stood at a shop till.
Explosions continued for around an hour after the initial blasts, the Reuters news agency reported.
Soon after, scores of people began arriving at hospitals across Lebanon, with witnesses reporting scenes of mass confusion.
How did the pagers explode?
Analysts have been quick to express shock at the scale of Tuesday's attack - saying Hezbollah prides itself on its security measures.
Some suggested a hack may have caused the pager batteries to overheat, causing the devices to explode. Such an act would be unprecedented.
But many experts say that is unlikely, with footage of the explosions inconsistent with the batteries overheating.
Some analysts say instead that some sort of supply chain attack, which involved the pagers being tampered with during their manufacture or in transit, was more likely.
Supply chain attacks are a growing concern in the cyber security world with many high-profile incidents recently caused by hackers gaining access to products whilst they are in development.
But these attacks are normally contained to software. Hardware supply chain attacks are far rarer as they involve getting hands on to the device.
If this was indeed a supply chain attack it would have involved a huge operation to secretly tamper with the pagers in some way.
A former British Army munitions expert, who asked not to be named, told the BBC the devices could have been packed with between 10 to 20 grams each of military-grade high explosive, hidden inside a fake electronic component.
This, said the expert, would have been armed by a signal, something called an alphanumeric text message.
What is known about the victims?
A source close to Hezbollah told AFP that two of those killed were the sons of two Hezbollah MPs. They also said the daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
Among the injured was Iran's ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani. Reports in Iranian media said his injuries were minor.
Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah was not hurt in the explosions, Reuters reported quoting a source.
Lebanese Public Health Minister Firass Abiad said damage to the hands and face made up the majority of injuries.
Speaking to the BBC's Newshour programme, he said: "Most of the injuries appear to be to the face and especially to the eyes and also the hand with some amputations, whether it's in the hands or the fingers, and some of them have injuries to their flank."
He added: "The vast majority of the people who are presenting to the emergency rooms are in civilian clothes, so it's very difficult to discern whether they belong to a certain entity like Hezbollah or others...
"But we are seeing among them people who are old or people who are very young, like the child who unfortunately died... and there are some of them who are healthcare workers," the minister said.
Outside of Lebanon, 14 people were injured in similar blasts in neighbouring Syria, according to UK-based campaign group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Who is responsible?
So far, nobody has claimed responsibility - though Lebanon's prime minister and Hezbollah have blamed Israel.
Prime Minister Najib Mikati said the explosions represented a “serious violation of Lebanese sovereignty and a crime by all standards”.
In its statement accusing Israel of being behind the attacks, Hezbollah said it held the country "fully responsible for this criminal aggression that also targeted civilians".
"This treacherous and criminal enemy will certainly receive its just punishment for this sinful aggression, whether it expects it or not," it added.
Israeli officials have not commented on the allegations, but most analysts agree that it seems likely it is behind the attack.
Prof Simon Mabon, chair in International Relations at Lancaster University, told the BBC: "We know that Israel has a precedent of using technology to track its target" - but he called the scale of this attack "unprecedented".
Lina Khatib, from the UK-based Chatham House, said the attack suggested that Israel has "deeply" infiltrated Hezbollah's "communications network".
Why does Hezbollah use pagers?
Hezbollah has relied heavily on pagers as a low-tech means of communications to try to evade location-tracking by Israel.
A pager is a wireless telecommunications device that receives and displays alphanumeric or voice messages.
Mobile phones have long since been abandoned as simply too vulnerable, as Israel’s assassination of the Hamas bomb-maker Yahya Ayyash demonstrated as long ago as 1996, when his phone exploded in his hand.
But one Hezbollah operative told the AP news agency that the pagers were a new brand that the group had not used before.
Emily Harding, an ex-analyst with the CIA, said the security breach was deeply embarrassing to Hezbollah.
"A breach of this magnitude is not only physically harmful, but will also make them question their entire security apparatus," she told the BBC.
"I would expect to see them conduct an intensive internal investigation that will distract them from a potential fight with Israel."
Will the Hezbollah-Israel conflict escalate?
Hezbollah is allied with Israel's arch-nemesis in the region, Iran. The group is part of Tehran's Axis of Resistance and has been engaged in a low-level war with Israel for months, frequently exchanging rocket and missile fire across Israel's northern border. Entire communities have been displaced from both sides.
The blasts came just hours after Israel's security cabinet made the safe return of residents to the north of the country an official war goal.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a visiting US official that Israel would "do what is necessary to ensure its security".
Earlier on Monday, Israel's domestic security agency said it had thwarted a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate a former official.
Despite the ongoing tensions, observers say that until now both sides have aimed to contain hostilities without crossing the line into full-scale war. But there are fears that the situation could spiral out of control, with Hezbollah already threatening to respond to Tuesday's explosions.
BBC
Bhaijaan
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A huge opportunity for Bharatiya manufacturing industry
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Hezbollah exploding pager trail runs from Taiwan to Hungary
The detonation of thousands of pagers targeting Hezbollah in Lebanon has left a mysterious trail from Taiwan to Hungary, while raising the prospect of another full-scale war in the Middle East between the Iran-backed group and arch-foe Israel.
Israel's Mossad spy agency, which has a long history of pulling off sophisticated attacks on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations that killed nine people, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told Reuters.
The operation was an unprecedented Hezbollah security breach that saw thousands of pagers explode across Lebanon, wounding nearly 3,000 people, including many of the group's fighters and Iran's envoy to Beirut.
The Lebanese security source said the pagers were from Taiwan-based Gold Apollo, but the company said in a statement it did not manufacture the devices. It said they were made by a company called BAC - based in the Hungarian capital - which has a licence to use its brand.
Iran-backed Hezbollah has vowed to retaliate against Israel, whose military declined to comment on the blasts. The two sides have been engaged in cross-border warfare since the Gaza conflict erupted last October.
While the war in Gaza has been Israel's main focus since the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas-led gunmen, fighting along Israel's northern border with Lebanon has fueled fears of a regional conflict that could drag in the United States and Iran.
"Hezbollah wants to avoid an all-out war. It still wants to avoid one. But given the scale, the impact on families, on civilians, there will be pressure for a stronger response," said Mohanad Hage Ali of the Carnegie Middle East Center.
Hezbollah said in a statement on Wednesday that "the resistance will continue today, like any other day, its operations to support Gaza, its people and its resistance which is a separate path from the harsh punishment that the criminal enemy (Israel) should await in response to Tuesday's massacre".
The plot appears to have been many months in the making, several sources told Reuters. It followed a series of assassinations of Hezbollah and Hamas commanders and leaders blamed on Israel since the start of the Gaza war.
The senior Lebanese security source said the group had ordered 5,000 pagers from Gold Apollo, which several sources say were brought into the country earlier this year.
Gold Apollo founder Hsu Ching-Kuang said the pagers used in the explosion were made by a company in Europe that Gold Apollo named in a statement as BAC.
"The product was not ours. It was only that it had our brand on it," Hsu told reporters at the company's offices in the northern Taiwanese city of New Taipei on Wednesday.
The stated address for BAC Consulting in Hungary's capital Budapest was a peach building on a mostly residential street in an outer suburb. The company name was posted on the glass door on an A4 sheet.
A person at the building who asked not to be named said BAC Consulting was registered at the address but did not have a physical presence there. The CEO of BAC Consulting, Cristiana Barsony-Arcidiacono says on her LinkedIn profile that she has worked as an adviser for various organisations including UNESCO. She did not respond to emails from Reuters.
BAC's registered activities are wide ranging, from computer game publishing to IT consulting to crude oil extraction.
The senior Lebanese security source identified a photograph of the model of the pager, an AR-924. Hezbollah fighters have been using pagers as a low-tech means of communication in an attempt to evade Israeli location-tracking.
The senior Lebanese source said the devices had been modified by Israel's spy service "at the production level."
"The Mossad injected a board inside of the device that has explosive material that receives a code. It's very hard to detect it through any means," the source said.
The source said about 3,000 of the pagers exploded when a coded message was sent to them, simultaneously activating the explosives.
Another security source told Reuters that up to three grams of explosives were hidden in the new pagers and had gone "undetected" by Hezbollah for months.
Israel's Mossad has gained notoriety for its complex operations stretching back to the daring 1960 abduction of high-ranking Nazi Adolf Eichmann. More recently, the spy agency has been blamed for cyber attacks and the assassination of a top Iranian scientist in 2020 with a remote-controlled machinegun.
Hezbollah was reeling from the attack, which left fighters and others bloodied, hospitalised or dead. One Hezbollah official said the detonation was the group's "biggest security breach" in its history.
In a televised speech on Feb. 13, the group's Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah sternly warned supporters that their phones were more dangerous than Israeli spies, saying they should break, bury or lock them in an iron box.
Instead, Hezbollah opted to distribute pagers to its members across the group's various branches - from fighters to medics working in its relief services.
The explosions maimed many Hezbollah members, according to footage from hospitals reviewed by Reuters. Wounded men had injuries of varying degrees to the face, missing fingers and gaping wounds at the hip where the pagers were likely worn.
A missile barrage by Hezbollah the day after Oct. 7 opened the latest phase of conflict and since then there have been daily exchanges of rockets, artillery fire and missiles, with Israeli jets striking deep into Lebanese territory.
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant told U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Monday that the window was closing for a diplomatic solution to the standoff with Hezbollah.
DeadlyVenom
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You have described the Israeli stance very well here regarding the wiping off the map etc. They have openly said this.
Do you think the Israelis should expect a furious backlash?
JaDed
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One of the manufacturing company I consult for has high Taiwanese presence including the CEO, in all honesty entire world’s chip manufacturing involves Taiwan in some capacity, it’s near impossible not to.
This is the very reason this case has me bothered as to where did this occur, because many US companies with Taiwanese presence and Ceos always have a European manufacturing location including the one I consult for, and their parts are used in a majority of electronics around the world.
Making an electronic device is not one stop shop for any manufacturer materials chips are sourced from across, what happened here is a big issue.
JaDed
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There is not a single nationality that can replace Taiwanese people’s capability in manufacturing semiconductors/chips, in terms of cost.
Thats the fact and not Israeli stance. Hamas Iran and Hezbollah have openly said that. Hamas charter had it as well. So you start a war- then be prepared for the consequences. Why do nb you run around and ask for ceasefires? Thats the danger of wars- Unknown consequences. Naive of you to pretend otherwise. If you start a war- you are the aggressor. So expect retaliation and don't go crying for ceasefires to the US.. Instead of imparting education to kids- hamas is arming them with weapons and making them into terrorists.
And as far as Israel is concerned- yes they are expecting further backlash. Its a struggle for their existence literally and figuratively. So yes they will retaliate with all their might.
Bhaijaan
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Never underestimate Bharatiyas.
Look at what we did with space rocket technology and made it affordable for college students to launch their own payload.
sweep_shot
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What if Israel does this in other countries too?
Israel is becoming more and more rogue. Complete disregard for international norms.
Israel is becoming more and more rogue. Complete disregard for international norms.
Cpt. Rishwat
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You are right, once the state of israel was established and Palestine was wiped off the map, from that point on it was always going to be a struggle for israeli existence. It won't end with wiping out Palestine though, because it seems Muslims in general don't accept it. This might be a reason the zionist state is so keen for other Muslim countries to give it official recognition.
Deny history conveniently. Arab nations and Palestine attacked Israel in 1948 and "lost " the war. They were the aggressors. And lost. Did the same in 1967 and lost again. So you " start" the war - you are the " aggressor " and then lose the wars and then claim all land as yours. What irony!! Palestine rejected the british 2 state option and went to wars in 48 and 67 and are the victims. Yeah got it..
Cpt. Rishwat
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1948 was after Palestine was wiped off the map and replaced with Israel. If you are going to dispute history at least address the same time period.
JaDed
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Chinese are better than us in Space technology and even they aren’t able to compete with Taiwanese.
JaDed
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The biggest issue here is Hungary, every manufacturing company has plants over europe esp Hungary for cheap labor.
Irrespective more security means more jobs on Quality Assurance, IT , networks, good for Indians I suppose.
The death of the little girl though is brutal and whoever had the pager her is also responsible for this esp if he was in Hezbollah.
Irrespective more security means more jobs on Quality Assurance, IT , networks, good for Indians I suppose.
The death of the little girl though is brutal and whoever had the pager her is also responsible for this esp if he was in Hezbollah.
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Walkie Talkies Explode In Hezbollah Strongholds Day After Pager Blasts
A day after pagers exploded across Lebanon, killing nine people and injuring more than 2,800 others, sources close to Lebanese militant outfit Hezbollah said walkie-talkies have blown up at strongholds across Beirut.
How many walkie-talkies blew up are not know yet, but casualties are feared.
Iran-backed Hezbollah said today that it attacked Israeli artillery positions with rockets in the first strike at its arch-rival since pager blasts wounded thousands of its members in Lebanon and raised the prospect of a wider Middle East war.
Israel's spy agency Mossad, which has a long history of sophisticated operations on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told news agency Reuters.
Last evening, Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad confirmed that nine people were killed and around 2,800 wounded in the incident.
The minister, in a televised press conference, said the blasts "killed nine people, including a girl", adding that "About 2,800 people were injured and more than 200 of them critically". The injuries were mostly on the face, hands and stomach, he had said.
Iran's state media had reported that its Ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was also wounded in yesterday's pager incident.
Source: NDTV
A day after pagers exploded across Lebanon, killing nine people and injuring more than 2,800 others, sources close to Lebanese militant outfit Hezbollah said walkie-talkies have blown up at strongholds across Beirut.
How many walkie-talkies blew up are not know yet, but casualties are feared.
Iran-backed Hezbollah said today that it attacked Israeli artillery positions with rockets in the first strike at its arch-rival since pager blasts wounded thousands of its members in Lebanon and raised the prospect of a wider Middle East war.
Israel's spy agency Mossad, which has a long history of sophisticated operations on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told news agency Reuters.
Last evening, Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad confirmed that nine people were killed and around 2,800 wounded in the incident.
The minister, in a televised press conference, said the blasts "killed nine people, including a girl", adding that "About 2,800 people were injured and more than 200 of them critically". The injuries were mostly on the face, hands and stomach, he had said.
Iran's state media had reported that its Ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was also wounded in yesterday's pager incident.
Source: NDTV
JaDed
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Explosions witnessed at Beirut funeral for Hezbollah members and a child killed in pager attack
Explosions witnessed at Beirut funeral for Hezbollah members and a child killed in pager attack
Multiple explosions occurred at the site of a funeral for three Hezbollah members and a child killed by exploding pagers the day before, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
apnews.com
Lebanese are Idiots clearly
JaDed
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This is what Iran has come to, it’s telling Israel’s allies to feel shame over Pager attacks, they have literally flattened Gaza and look at these guys.
Iran should just shut up and sit at home.
shortbread
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They selectively target nations that are insignificant enough to evade significant international condemnation, revealing a stark truth: there is minimal concern for the Lebanese, even less so than for the Palestinians.
Exactly these iranians have done a massive deservice to the palestinian cause through it's proxy hamas.
They are an absolute embarrassment they even failed to protect ismail haniyeh under their own nose something even qatar managed , qatar even managed to protect the taliban delegations
The Arab states didn't attack Israel in 1967. Israel conducted a pre-emptive strike.
You may be thinking of 1973. Egypt and Syria were seeking to reclaim their lost territories from 1967 - and Egypt eventually took back the Sinai via talks.
JaDed
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Egypt knew what it was doing in 1967.. it expelled UNEF that could had kept Sinhai safe.
The consequences of 1967 are to this day felt across the middle east, and yes 1948 too but 1967 positioned only one as a winner.
rpant_gabba
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What do international norms say about kidnapping civilians and holding them as hostages? or is this your usual islamist hypocrisy?
Check history. Arabs * Palestinians rejected British 2 state plan in 1948. And then "went" to war for all or nothing. They were the aggressors. Then they "lost" the war. If you go to war that you start and then lose - you want all the land back ? How ridiculous is it ? They should have worked on the 2 state plan at the time peacefully. Again did the same in 1967. They "started" the war and again "lost" . So you keep losing wars you start and then cry victim. Wheres the logic here ?
Repeating. Check history. Arabs * Palestinians rejected British 2 state plan in 1948. And then "went" to war for all or nothing. They were the aggressors. Then they "lost" the war. If you go to war that you start and then lose - you want all the land back ? How ridiculous is it ? They should have worked on the 2 state plan at the time peacefully.
Again did the same in 1967. They "started" the war and again "lost" . They went to war to "reclaim lost territories" as u yourself say. They lost those in a war they initiated . So its not something that was taken by Israel. You start a war and you lose every time and say I am a victim ??
Wheres the logic here ?
Iran is all talk and no action. Have said that here repeatedly. And posterd would be like Iran is taking its time as its planning something big and major lol !
This.
War was fought for land and Arabs lost badly both in 1948 as well as 1967. It was not just the war they lost. They also lost land to Israel. This is the what happens when wars are fought over land. The winner gets the spoils.
But we hear even the west slogans like Israelis are occupying forces and from river to the sea, Palestine will be free etc. The reality is, Palestinian land was gone the moment they lost the war.
It was only due to the goodwill of Israel that Arabs even got Gaza and West Bank.
Why not !! How dare you suggest anything otherwise to the "Chosen qaum" by no less authority than God himself!!. I dare you to refute that.
you need to understand that "logic" is defined very very very differently with Muslims. If you ask me to pseudo-code this it would be something like this:
if ( Muslim == true )
{
All_Is_well()
}
else
{
Call Convert()
Call Kill()
}
This worked for nearly 14 centuries. But when it comes to Modern day Israel they are into the else condition and they dont know what to do when the opposition is suddenly using their own Kill() routine against them !
rpant_gabba
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IF only there was a plan that would have worked out well for both parties
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
In case anyone is confused, arabs attacked jews well before Israel was close being a reality
Izz ad-Din al-Qassam - Wikipedia
Hamas still has a faction on Al Qassam’s name.IF only there was a plan that would have worked out well for both parties
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In case anyone is confused, arabs attacked jews well before Israel was close being a reality
Izz ad-Din al-Qassam - Wikipedia
rpant_gabba
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surprised the heavyweights are staying away from this thread. I recall celebration in the first couple of days of this conflict
where is it going now @KingKhanWC ?
where is it going now @KingKhanWC ?
Cpt. Rishwat
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IF only there was a plan that would have worked out well for both parties
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
In case anyone is confused, arabs attacked jews well before Israel was close being a reality
Izz ad-Din al-Qassam - Wikipedia
That article clarifies that the British were already on their way to helping the zionists implement their plan for israel and he was an opponent.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I agree I don't see any point in crying victim. If there is no peaceful solution then it has to be war.
Again I reiterate - Israel conducted a pre-emptive war in 1967. The Arab states did not attack Israel first in 1967. That's not my opinion but historical fact which can be easily checked.
That war is the root of the problems today.
As for 1948 - look it's easy to say the Palestinians should've accepted the UN Partition Plan with the benefit of 75+ years hindsight. Had they foreseen the next 75 years of occupation and displacement they surely would've reached a different conclusion. I don't contest that their leadership has often been inept and short-sighted.
However their argument at the time was the best agricultural farmland would be transferred to Israeli territory, and that Israel was granted a disproportionately higher share of the land given its population.
As for your argument that winners take the spoils - it's actually Israel who established the precedent of land for peace. They withdrew from the Sinai for peace with Egypt after the Camp David Accords. That remains the only solution to their conflict with the Palestinians who without any political horizon will continue their armed resistance.
The Arabs do not have Gaza and the West Bank. I'm amazed at some of the history lessons being given here !
The Palestinians have limited authority over 40% of the West Bank. Israel still conducts military raids at will. The PA have been powerless to stop the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. Even Western news outlets refer to the West Bank as Occupied West Bank in their bulletins.
Even before October 7, Israel controlled Gaza's airspace and territorial waters. It severely rationed food into Gaza meaning 64% of its residents in 2022 were classed as food insecure. The same article also show restrictions meant 97% of Gaza's water was labelled unfit for human consumption in 2019. Former UK PM David Cameron described Gaza as an "open air prison" in 2010. I guess he must be an undercover Hamas operative ?
So let's stop this pearl clutching about Hamas old charter (have you seen Likud's Charter ?) or silly chanting at protests and focus on the bigger picture. Israel created the conditions for October 7 through its actions, and are currently sowing the seeds for future October 7s. Only diplomacy and compromise will end the violence - something Netanyahu and his far-right goons adamantly refuse to do.
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Israel bombs southern Lebanon after radio blasts
Israel bombed southern Lebanon on Thursday and said it had thwarted an Iranian-led assassination plot, a day after explosions of Hezbollah radios that came on the heels of blasts in booby trapped pagers, setting the foes hurtling towards war.
The sophisticated attacks on armed group Hezbollah’s communications equipment, which killed 37 people and wounded around 3,000 over two days, sowed disarray in Lebanon, with panicked residents abandoning their mobile phones.
“This isn’t a small matter, it’s war. Who can even secure their phone now? When I heard about what happened yesterday, I left my phone on my motorcycle and walked away,” said Mustafa Sibal on a street near central Beirut.
A distant roar in the skies could be heard in Beirut from what Lebanese state media said was Israeli jets breaking the sound barrier - a sound that has grown increasingly common in recent months.
Israel said its warplanes struck villages in southern Lebanon overnight, and a security source and Hezbollah’s al-Manar TV reported airstrikes near the border resumed on Thursday just after midday.
Hand-held radios used by Hezbollah detonated on Wednesday across Lebanon’s south.
The Lebanese health minister raised the death toll, saying 25 people had been killed and 608 injured in the country’s deadliest day since cross-border fighting erupted between the militants and Israel in parallel with the Gaza war last year.
The previous day, hundreds of pagers - used by Hezbollah to evade mobile phone surveillance - exploded at once, killing 12 people including two children, and injuring more than 2,300.
In a post on X, Lebanese Prime Minister Najib Mikati called on the United Nations Security Council to take a firm stand to stop Israel’s “aggression” and “technological war” against his country.
Israel has not commented directly on the booby-trapped walkie-talkies and pagers, but multiple security sources have said the attacks were carried out by its spy agency Mossad.
Israel says its conflict with Hezbollah, like its war in Gaza against Palestinian militant group Hamas, is part of a wider regional confrontation with Iran, which sponsors both groups as well as armed movements in Syria, Yemen and Iraq.
On Thursday Israeli security forces announced that an Israeli businessman had been arrested last month after attending at least two meetings in Iran, where he discussed assassinating Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the defense minister or the head of the Shin Bet spy agency.
Last week, Shin Bet uncovered what it said was a plot by Hezbollah to assassinate former Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon.
Israel has been accused of assassinations including a blast in Tehran that killed the leader of Hamas and another in a Beirut suburb that killed a senior Hezbollah commander within hours of each other in July.
Despite the events of the past few days, a spokesperson for the UN peacekeeping mission in southern Lebanon said the situation along the frontier had “not changed much in terms of exchanges of fire between the parties.”
“There was an intensification last week. This week it is more or less the same. There are still exchanges of fire. It is still worrying, still concerning, and the rhetoric is high,” the spokesperson, Andrea Tenenti, told Reuters.
Israel and Hezbollah have been exchanging fire across the Israeli-Lebanon border in parallel with the war Israel has waged in Gaza against Hamas, the Palestinian militant group whose fighters attacked Israel on Oct. 7.
Tens of thousands of people have had to flee the Israel-Lebanon border area on both sides. Netanyahu vowed on Wednesday to return the evacuated Israelis “securely to their homes.”
Shifting focus
The Israeli military said its overnight air strikes hit Hezbollah targets in Chihine, Tayibe, Blida, Meiss El Jabal, Aitaroun and Kfarkela in southern Lebanon, as well as a Hezbollah weapons storage facility in the area of Khiam.
Israeli media reported that a number of Israeli civilians had been wounded by anti-tank missile fire from Lebanon, but there was no official confirmation.
On Wednesday, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said the war was moving into a new phase, with more resources and military units now being shifted to the northern border.
According to Israeli officials, the forces being deployed there include the 98th Division, an elite formation including commando and paratroop elements that has been fighting in Gaza.
Hezbollah launched missile barrages on Israel on the day after the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas, and since then there has been a constant exchange of fire that neither side has allowed to escalate into a full-scale war.
However, tens of thousands have been evacuated on both sides of the border, and there has been mounting pressure in Israel for the government to get the evacuees back home.
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Israel says 100 Hezbollah rocket launchers hit in Lebanon
Israel has carried out extensive air strikes on southern Lebanon, saying its warplanes have hit more than 100 Hezbollah rocket launchers and other "terrorist sites" including a weapons storage facility.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said the launchers were ready to be fired against Israel. It was not immediately clear if there were any casualties.
Lebanon's state-run National News Agency said Israel carried out at least 52 strikes in the south of the country on Thursday evening, and that Lebanon had also launched strikes on military sites in northern Israel.
Earlier, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said deadly explosions earlier in the week "crossed all red lines", accusing Israel of what he said represented a declaration of war.
Israel has not said it was behind the attacks - which saw pagers and walkie-talkies explode simultaneously across the country - on Tuesday and Wednesday, and which Lebanese authorities said killed 37 people and wounded 3,000.
But Defence Minister Yoav Gallant has said Israel is embarking on a "new phase of the war", concentrating more of its efforts on the north.
The previously sporadic cross-border fighting escalated on 8 October 2023 - the day after the unprecedented attack on Israel by Hamas gunmen from Gaza - when Hezbollah fired at Israeli positions, in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Since then hundreds of people, most of them Hezbollah fighters, have been killed in the cross-border fighting, and tens of thousands have also been displaced on both sides of the border.
Hezbollah has said it is acting in support of the Palestinian armed group Hamas. Both are backed by Iran and proscribed as terrorist organisations by Israel, the UK and other countries.
In a statement late on Thursday, the IDF said its warplanes "struck approximately 100 launchers and additional terrorist infrastructure sites, consisting of approximately 1,000 barrels that were ready to be used in the immediate future to fire toward Israeli territory".
"The IDF will continue to operate to degrade the Hezbollah terrorist organisation’s infrastructure and capabilities in order to defend the state of Israel".
Lebanese security sources cited by Reuters news agency and the New York Times said the Israeli strikes were one of the most intense since the war in Gaza began in October last year.
The IDF also urged residents in northern Israel close to the Lebanese border to avoid large gatherings, guard their neighbourhoods and stay close to bomb shelters.
On Thursday morning, Hezbollah fighters in southern Lebanon fired two anti-tank missiles across the border, followed by drones.
The IDF said two Israeli soldiers were killed and a third seriously wounded.
In his televised address on Thursday, Hassan Nasrallah said of Tuesday and Wednesday's attacks: “The enemy crossed all rules, laws and red lines. It didn't care about anything at all, not morally, not humanely, not legally."
“This is massacre, a major aggression against Lebanon, its people, its resistance, its sovereignty, and its security. It can be called war crimes or a declaration of war - whatever you choose to name it, it is deserving and fits the description. This was the enemy's intention,” he added.
As Nasrallah spoke, Israeli warplanes caused sonic booms over Beirut, scaring an already-exhausted population, and others struck targets in southern Lebanon.
The Hezbollah leader acknowledged that this was a massive and unprecedented blow for his group, but he insisted that its ability to command and communicate remained intact.
Nasrallah’s tone was defiant and he vowed a harsh punishment. But, again, he indicated that Hezbollah was not interested in an escalation of its current conflict with Israel.
The group’s cross-border attacks, he said, were going to continue unless there was a ceasefire in Gaza, and that no killings or assassinations would return residents to northern Israel.
The IDF said on Thursday that its chief of staff, Lt Gen Herzi Halevi, had “recently completed approval of plans for the northern arena”.
Gallant later said that "in the new phase of the war there are significant opportunities but also significant risks”.
“Hezbollah feels that it is being persecuted and the sequence of military actions will continue,” he added.
“Our goal is to ensure the safe return of Israel’s northern communities to their homes. As time goes by, Hezbollah will pay an increasing price.”
It is not clear how Israel intends to achieve this goal. But reports earlier this week suggested that the general in charge of the IDF’s Northern Command favoured the creation of an Israeli-controlled buffer zone inside southern Lebanon.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken called for restraint on all sides.
"We don't want to see any escalatory actions by any party" that would make the goal of achieving a ceasefire in Gaza more difficult, he said as he joined European foreign ministers in Paris to discuss the widening crisis.
UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy, who was also at the talks in Paris, called for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah.
"We are all very, very clear that we want to see a negotiated political settlement so that Israelis can return to their homes in northern Israel and indeed Lebanese to return to their homes," he said.
BBC
Israel has carried out extensive air strikes on southern Lebanon, saying its warplanes have hit more than 100 Hezbollah rocket launchers and other "terrorist sites" including a weapons storage facility.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said the launchers were ready to be fired against Israel. It was not immediately clear if there were any casualties.
Lebanon's state-run National News Agency said Israel carried out at least 52 strikes in the south of the country on Thursday evening, and that Lebanon had also launched strikes on military sites in northern Israel.
Earlier, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said deadly explosions earlier in the week "crossed all red lines", accusing Israel of what he said represented a declaration of war.
Israel has not said it was behind the attacks - which saw pagers and walkie-talkies explode simultaneously across the country - on Tuesday and Wednesday, and which Lebanese authorities said killed 37 people and wounded 3,000.
But Defence Minister Yoav Gallant has said Israel is embarking on a "new phase of the war", concentrating more of its efforts on the north.
The previously sporadic cross-border fighting escalated on 8 October 2023 - the day after the unprecedented attack on Israel by Hamas gunmen from Gaza - when Hezbollah fired at Israeli positions, in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Since then hundreds of people, most of them Hezbollah fighters, have been killed in the cross-border fighting, and tens of thousands have also been displaced on both sides of the border.
Hezbollah has said it is acting in support of the Palestinian armed group Hamas. Both are backed by Iran and proscribed as terrorist organisations by Israel, the UK and other countries.
In a statement late on Thursday, the IDF said its warplanes "struck approximately 100 launchers and additional terrorist infrastructure sites, consisting of approximately 1,000 barrels that were ready to be used in the immediate future to fire toward Israeli territory".
"The IDF will continue to operate to degrade the Hezbollah terrorist organisation’s infrastructure and capabilities in order to defend the state of Israel".
Lebanese security sources cited by Reuters news agency and the New York Times said the Israeli strikes were one of the most intense since the war in Gaza began in October last year.
The IDF also urged residents in northern Israel close to the Lebanese border to avoid large gatherings, guard their neighbourhoods and stay close to bomb shelters.
On Thursday morning, Hezbollah fighters in southern Lebanon fired two anti-tank missiles across the border, followed by drones.
The IDF said two Israeli soldiers were killed and a third seriously wounded.
In his televised address on Thursday, Hassan Nasrallah said of Tuesday and Wednesday's attacks: “The enemy crossed all rules, laws and red lines. It didn't care about anything at all, not morally, not humanely, not legally."
“This is massacre, a major aggression against Lebanon, its people, its resistance, its sovereignty, and its security. It can be called war crimes or a declaration of war - whatever you choose to name it, it is deserving and fits the description. This was the enemy's intention,” he added.
As Nasrallah spoke, Israeli warplanes caused sonic booms over Beirut, scaring an already-exhausted population, and others struck targets in southern Lebanon.
The Hezbollah leader acknowledged that this was a massive and unprecedented blow for his group, but he insisted that its ability to command and communicate remained intact.
Nasrallah’s tone was defiant and he vowed a harsh punishment. But, again, he indicated that Hezbollah was not interested in an escalation of its current conflict with Israel.
The group’s cross-border attacks, he said, were going to continue unless there was a ceasefire in Gaza, and that no killings or assassinations would return residents to northern Israel.
The IDF said on Thursday that its chief of staff, Lt Gen Herzi Halevi, had “recently completed approval of plans for the northern arena”.
Gallant later said that "in the new phase of the war there are significant opportunities but also significant risks”.
“Hezbollah feels that it is being persecuted and the sequence of military actions will continue,” he added.
“Our goal is to ensure the safe return of Israel’s northern communities to their homes. As time goes by, Hezbollah will pay an increasing price.”
It is not clear how Israel intends to achieve this goal. But reports earlier this week suggested that the general in charge of the IDF’s Northern Command favoured the creation of an Israeli-controlled buffer zone inside southern Lebanon.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken called for restraint on all sides.
"We don't want to see any escalatory actions by any party" that would make the goal of achieving a ceasefire in Gaza more difficult, he said as he joined European foreign ministers in Paris to discuss the widening crisis.
UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy, who was also at the talks in Paris, called for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah.
"We are all very, very clear that we want to see a negotiated political settlement so that Israelis can return to their homes in northern Israel and indeed Lebanese to return to their homes," he said.
BBC
Here's info on the origins of the 1967 war -
Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia
And its not just 1948. Palestine has repeatedly refused to talk on the 2 state options. They sabotaged quite a few talk or atleast backtracked. Not once or twice but multiple times. And hamas has a stated goal of wiping out israel and they want the entire land. One thing is for sure. There is no way Palestine is getting the entire land back. Those are delusional thoughts. On the contrart they lose more and more land when hamas does its transgressions.
And regarding their argument in 1948 was for sure discussion worthy. But the moment you reject it and go for all out war for an all or nothing risk - you have to be ok with the consequences as well. They lost and lost badly. And now wnt the while land after rejecting the initial offer and then losing all in war that they started. The irony...
And yes land for peace was done in good faith by Israel hoping to end hamas terrorism. But if you and hamas think thats the way to get more land- you are seriously mistaken. If anything Israel will strike back even harder which is what they are doin
g. And not sire what Palestinians are getting- a horrible quality of life when children are given assault rifles and trained in terrorism. An entire generations future lost to terrorism
Sure if thats the option that hamas decides then be prepared for the consequences. Why cry and request ceasefires? Why cry and claim Israel is the aggressor? Go ahead . But the fact is they will lose again badly. Amd every time they lose they lose more land and lose.more righte. So yeah go ahead. Cowardly hamas hide in schools and hospitals and arm young children with guns and convert them to terrorists instead of giving them education and sending them to schools
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Israeli army says about 60 rockets fired from Lebanon into Israel
The Israeli military said dozens of rockets were fired into Israeli territory from Lebanon on Friday, as Hezbollah said it targeted Israeli military bases.
“Some 140 rockets were fired from Lebanon within an hour starting at 1:02 pm (1002 GMT),” a military spokeswoman told AFP.
The incoming fire came after the Israeli military said it struck dozens of rocket launchers overnight that were ready for use against Israel.
Hezbollah said it fired barrages of rockets at Israeli military bases in retaliation for strikes on south Lebanon, as tensions soared following deadly sabotage attacks on its communications devices.
The group said it launched “salvos of Katyusha rockets” against at least six Israeli “army headquarters” and bases, including a “main air defense base.”
Israel has not commented on the blasts that rocked Lebanon this week.
For nearly a year, Israel’s firepower has been focused on Palestinian militant group Hamas in Gaza, but its troops have also been engaged in near-daily exchanges with Hezbollah militants.
The cross-border exchanges of fire have killed hundreds in Lebanon, most of them fighters, and dozens in Israel, including soldiers. Tens of thousands of people on both sides of the border have been forced to flee their homes.
HalBass9
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I believe you do not understand why Israel is aggressor, and we all know why, it has to do with your religion and country of origin.
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Israeli strike in Lebanon capital Beirut targets senior Hezbollah figure, sources say
An Israeli strike targeted a senior Hezbollah figure, two security sources told Reuters on Friday.
The sources could not immediately say who was targeted or if they had been killed.
Earlier, the Israeli military said it had carried out a targeted strike in Beirut on Friday which security sources in Lebanon said had hit near key Hezbollah facilities in the southern suburbs of the city, marking a sharp escalation of the conflict between the sides.
Witnesses heard a blast in Beirut’s Hezbollah-controlled southern suburbs and smoke was seen rising over the area.
Hezbollah’s al-Manar TV said the southern suburbs known as the Dahiyeh had been subjected to an act of aggression. Reuters witnesses heard jet noise over the city around the time of the attack.
Ignited by the Gaza war, the conflict has intensified significantly this week, with Hezbollah suffering an unprecedented attack in which pagers and walkie talkies used by its members exploded, killing 37 people and wounding thousands.
I like to deal with actual facts . And it is so naive of you to assume its bcos of religion and country origin. Religion doesnt dictate my day to day life unlike a few posters here. And maybe religion and your country of origin is clouding u to the actual ground facts. Hamas should try to get a better life for its people. Come to the table, stop the terrorism, have talks but no. They want to pursue a violent path riddled with terrorism and spoiling young future generations while its top brass enjoys the luxuries in life in away countries with all worldly pleasures. The hypocrisy and the irony..
HalBass9
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With that statement you have just proved my point. Thank You!
Yeah as always, when confronted with facts when you dont even know my religion - want to ignore the facts and reality and try to veer off topic as you have no basis . Yeah got it..
JaDed
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Israel is the aggressor but that will never change because they are so paranoid and they have reasons for it, they are surrounded by countries that wants to destroy them, it’s in eternal war like situation and how history has treated Jews I don’t see them changing this approach in my lifetime.
HalBass9
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You haven't made any point other than proving my point. If you had made a point then I would have addressed it. So, since you have proven the point that I made then I have nothing more to add to it.Yeah as always, when confronted with facts when you dont even know my religion - want to ignore the facts and reality and try to veer off topic as you have no basis . Yeah got it..
HalBass9
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2 state solution.
More word gymnastics. But the fact remains that Palestinians started both wars rejected the 2 state option and lost both. They took the risk and lost and they want Israel wiped out - never gonna happen. They started the Oct 7th saga - so they will have to deal with the consequences. And Hamas gave Israel a blank slate to pretty much go after them as they wish. And the Palestinians will be confined to even more misery. Nothing more to add as well.
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Israeli strike kills senior Hezbollah commander Ibrahim Aqil: Hezbollah source
A source close to Hezbollah told AFP that an Israeli airstrike on Friday killed the group’s elite Radwan unit chief, while the Israeli military said it conducted “a targeted strike” on the Lebanese capital.
“The Israeli airstrike killed Radwan Force commander Ibrahim Aqil, its armed force’s second-in-command after Fuad Shukr,” who an Israeli strike killed in July, also in Hezbollah’s southern Beirut stronghold, said the source who requested anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
Aqil was one of the principal members of Hezbollah’s Islamic Jihad Organization, which was behind the 1983 US Embassy in Beirut bombing and the US Marine Barracks bombing later that year.
Friday’s strike was the third blamed on or claimed by Israel to hit the southern suburbs of Beirut since October, when Hezbollah began cross-border clashes with Israel in support of Palestinian militants Hamas over the Gaza war.
The US said it was unaware of any prior notification from Israel and had nothing to do with the operation.
The latest strike came days after deadly sabotage attacks on Hezbollah’s communications devices sent tensions soaring.
“Israel conducted an airstrike on the Beirut southern suburbs near al-Qaem mosque,” a Lebanese security source told AFP, requesting anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
The Israeli military said it carried out a “targeted strike” in Beirut.
Lebanon’s health ministry said at least eight people were killed and 59 wounded in the strike.
Hezbollah’s al-Manar television broadcast live footage from the scene of the attack that showed ambulances rushing to the area and transporting injured people on stretchers.
Lebanon’s state-run National News Agency reported “an enemy raid targeting an apartment in a residential building in the al-Jamous area of the southern suburb” of Beirut.
The previous strikes on south Beirut killed Shukr on July 30 and Hamas deputy leader Saleh al-Arouri on January 2.
HalBass9
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No word gymnastic, I explained to you that you are keep proving my initial point as you have done it again in your last post.
You aren’t able to see it because of your back ground, your religion, your county of origin.
When the fact of the matter is - you are blindly supporting Hamas /Palestine bcos of your Muslim faith and cant see anything else to the contrary.
HalBass9
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I’m blindly opposing genocide, ethnic cleansing just as any morally inclined human being would. Also, I’m not blindly ignoring the occupation which under international law allow anyone to resist with whatever they can.
You are intentionally supporting genocide and ethnic cleansing due to your background and have justified various methods to support it.
You are selectively supporting based on people's faith. How about condemning the ghastly hamaa attack on oct 7th and killing of hostages. Just because they are jews? For me- any human civilian life lost is one loss too many. And if you dont want to be retaliated against- don't " start" a war..
RexRex
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Palestine rejected in several times.
RexRex
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^ Such an ill-informed post this.
The Peel plan of 1937 gave a lot more territory to the Arabs compared to the Jews and they still rejected it. Because the Arabs wanted the whole of British mandated Palestine. The UN partition plan came much later .. in 1947 I think.
1) Your own link confirms Israel conducted a pre-emptive strike in 1967 and the Arab states didn't attack Israel first as originally claimed. Look one can always find various provocations to justify these things, see Iraq 2003 and Ukraine 2022. However let's clarify the facts as several issues are being conflated:Here's info on the origins of the 1967 war -
Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
a) The Palestinians took no part in the fighting of 1967. It was a war between Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Israel. However the collapse of the Arab armies meant Israel conquered the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza kickstarting a 57+ year occupation of Palestinian populations.
b) All sides were guilty of escalatory actions. Yes Egypt expelled UN peacekeepers from Sinai and blockaded Israeli vessels since 1948. Israel however regularly raided its neighbours, and invaded Egypt alongside Britain and France in 1956 so the history is more nuanced than Arabs attack, Israel defends.
2) There have been no talks between Israel and the Palestinians since 2014 chiefly due to the intransigence of Benjamin Netanyahu and his hard rightwing governments. Do you seriously believe Netanyahu, who opposed the Oslo Accords and 2005 Gaza disengagement forget Palestinian statehood, is a partner for peace ? How many times must he reject 2 states before it sinks into peoples' heads ?
Israeli newspapers infact confirmed Netanyahu for years allowed the funnelling of Qatari money to Hamas to weaken Fatah and divide the Palestinians so you guys should grill him instead.
For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com
Instead of a partner for peace, he's an partner of genocide with his Cabinet including two far-right ministers, Ben Gvir (a convicted terrorist) and Smotrich, who openly talk of wiping out the Palestinians. Is their rhetoric any better than Hamas ?
3) If you're referring to Israel's "withdrawal" from Gaza in 2005: While settlements were removed Israel retained control of most border crossings, and all airspace and territorial waters. It heavily restricts the flow of civilian goods including medicine, energy supplies and food rendering the Strip virtually uninhabitable. 97% of its water is undrinkable. Israel even controls the population registry. Hence the ICJ still deems Gaza occupied territory. Is it any wonder many Gazans turn to armed resistance ?
I've provided hyperlinks so you can read it yourself and see these aren't my opinions but facts. A proper withdrawal was after the 1978 Camp David Accords when Israel evacuated Sinai. Has there been a war between Israel and Egypt since ?
4) I oppose attacks on civilians as you imply. Turn your fire towards the state who's created ripe conditions for Palestinian militancy. They refused to negotiate with even the moderate Abu Mazen who's cracked down viciously on Hamas in the West Bank. When political solutions are denied - human history shows armed struggle is inevitable.
And that's the crux of the issue. Thry reject all options- want the whole land only for muslims then decide to go to war - lose war badly- then cry victim- resort to terrorism - and the cycle continues.
HalBass9
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LOL, why would anyone would have give up on any territory to illegal settlers? No country would have accepted that then and no country would now.
RexRex
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They weren't illegal settlers, Jews purchased land from absentee arab and turk landlords and settled there.
Firstly, you claim that's an ill informed post yet a poster claiming Gaza and the West Bank are in Arab hands has apparently missed your hyper-analytical gaze. It's amazing how biases push people to pick up on some things but not others.
Secondly, the poster said the Arabs rejected the 1947-48 Partition so I explained the reasons given at the time which wasn't a personal endorsement of the Arab position. My view isn't as important as the facts and contemporary opinion.
Now if you want to discuss the Peel Plan in a cordial way I'm happy to do so !
a) Which Arabs do you speak of ? The Arab Higher Commission led by the inept mufti or the pro-negotiation Nashashibi faction ? The Arabs then as now were bitterly divided which partly explains their pathetic performance in the 1948 war.
b) Peel proposed an Arab state encompassing the mountains and the Negev desert plus Jaffa existing in a bizarre enclave if you look at the map here. Britain would retain control of Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and even a corridor to the Sea. And according to the late Ian Black's Enemies and Neighbours, possibly the definitive book on the conflict from a neutral POV, the Peel Plan would've involved the forced transfer of at least 225,000 Arabs. It was a ridiculous proposal.
c) Another British panel called the Woodhead Commission followed and concluded Peel was totally unworkable. Unfortunately his various proposals were rejected by both Jews and Arabs.
d) Was there a large segment of Arabs who rejected partition under any circumstances ? Of course. If they foresaw the next 75 years of misery you'd think they'd reach a different conclusion. However they felt a foreign population had arrived to gradually colonise their lands and expel them from their homes with partition a staging post. You can't deny that's true when that was the intention of many Zionists including Theodore Herzl who wrote in 1895 of "spiriting the penniless population across the border."
To blame the conflict solely on Palestinian rejectionism is wilful ignorance. It's now Israel who never fail to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. They're no longer facing a sea of Arab hostility as in 1948 with most Sunni Arab states viewing Iran as the biggest foe. Israel rebuffed the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative which promised normalisation in return for end of occupation. The 2020 Abraham Accords were signed without any guarantees of Palestinian statehood.
And please don't say Abu Mazen isn't a credible partner for peace when the guy has destroyed his popularity amongst his people for stubbornly pursuing negotiation in face of Israeli aggression and apartheid. He smacked down on Hamas in the West Bank and was very close to sealing a deal with Ehud Olmert in 2008 before Olmert was removed from office. What was to stop Netanyahu from pursuing the Olmert negotiations ? Israeli rejectionism is the cause of the current chaos.
RexRex
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Well I support the Israeli narrative on the conflict, so obviously I'm more inclined to comment and debate on posts that are of the opposing view. Yours is one such post.
I was referring to the Arab Higher Committee, they were the primary representatives.
It's not the fault of Israel that the Arabs can't present a united front. The latter should've got their act together.
Both the Arab Higher committee and Nashashibi faction ultimately rejected the Peel plan not because it was ridiculous/unworkable but because they did not want to give Jews even the tiniest bit of land. It was out of the question. Palestinian intellectual Edward Said later said in regret that Arabs should've presented their own partition plan.
I'm not a fan of Netanyahu so I won't defend his reign. Arafat did have a great chance at peace in 2000 with the Camp David summit but he rejected the 2 state plan of Clinton/EhudBarak yet again, prseumably because he was in fear of being killed by the extremists in his own party and region.
Thanks for the reply and appreciate you focusing on the substance instead of the Jews good/evil, Muslims good/terrorist binary rubbish that we often see in these threads.
The one thing I agree with the Indian posters on is the stupidity of the Arab leadership. It's astonishing how in an existential battle for survival, the Palestinians could not get their act together. They didn't even have a battle plan in 1948 much less a strategy for negotiations. And they had their pants pulled down even worse in 1967.
That said whether the Arabs agreed to Peel or not is secondary, rightly or wrongly in my opinion, precisely because of its unviability and would've surely produced conflict anyway. Hypothetically say the Peel borders are agreed - who governs Jerusalem and Bethlehem post-WW2 when the British Empire collapses ? The religious symbolism of that conflict requires no explanation and would also echo for generations.
Besides the British had no right to remain in Palestine. Would you guys accept a plan where Mountbatten announces British withdrawal from India in 1947 except Mumbai and Kolkata, oh and give us a land corridor to the Bay of Bengal ?
I knew you'd bring up Camp David 2000 ! Few things on that.
- Arafat didn't want to go. He felt Israel weren't implementing Oslo let alone seriously planning a 2 state solution. Clinton pushed him as he desperately wanted a legacy making deal, and promised he wouldn't blame him if the talks failed (he did).
- Ehud Barak lost his Knesset majority during the summit. What was his negotiating authority ?
- Where's the formal written Israeli proposal and map presented at Camp David ? There are interpretations of what the maps looked like floating around on the internet but none official. Ehud Barak never presented a formal written proposal. It was a verbal offer. Arafat didn't trust him.
- True Arafat feared assassination which in fairness after Rabin wasn't an illogical fear. Maybe you'd argue martyrdom is a fair price for a Palestinian homeland.
The best account of Camp David is from one of the negotiators, Aaron David Miller, probably one of the few US mediators I respect as he's long called for the US to get tougher on Israel. It seemed doomed to fail.
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Israel says top Hezbollah commander killed in Beirut strike
Israel says senior Hezbollah figures, including a top military commander, were killed in an air strike on the Lebanese capital Beirut on Friday, in a major escalation that has added to fears of an all-out war.
At least 14 people were killed and dozens injured, Lebanese officials said, in the strike that hit the densely populated Dahieh area, a stronghold of the Iran-backed group in the city’s southern suburbs.
There were chaotic scenes as emergency teams rushed to the site of the attack, rescuing the wounded and searching for people believed to be trapped under the rubble. At least one residential building collapsed and others were heavily damaged.
Streets were closed by Hezbollah members, some looking incredulous as the attack represented another humiliating blow in a week which saw pagers and walkie-talkies belonging to the group explode.
Dozens were killed and thousands wounded in those attacks, widely believed to be orchestrated by Israel.
Friday's strike was the first to hit Beirut since July, when Hezbollah’s military chief Fuad Shukr was killed.
www.bbc.com
Israel says senior Hezbollah figures, including a top military commander, were killed in an air strike on the Lebanese capital Beirut on Friday, in a major escalation that has added to fears of an all-out war.
At least 14 people were killed and dozens injured, Lebanese officials said, in the strike that hit the densely populated Dahieh area, a stronghold of the Iran-backed group in the city’s southern suburbs.
There were chaotic scenes as emergency teams rushed to the site of the attack, rescuing the wounded and searching for people believed to be trapped under the rubble. At least one residential building collapsed and others were heavily damaged.
Streets were closed by Hezbollah members, some looking incredulous as the attack represented another humiliating blow in a week which saw pagers and walkie-talkies belonging to the group explode.
Dozens were killed and thousands wounded in those attacks, widely believed to be orchestrated by Israel.
Friday's strike was the first to hit Beirut since July, when Hezbollah’s military chief Fuad Shukr was killed.
Beirut strike: Top Hezbollah commander killed in Israeli strike
The strike in Lebanon's capital, which killed at least 14 people, adds to fears of an all-out war.
www.bbc.com
More like heads will roll literally Hezbollah style lol !
hoshiarpurexpress
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Most probably that persons all already on fire and blown up. So mission achieved?
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Bhaijaan
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Chances are he’s likely already been neutralised and is buying cosmetics somewhere as we speak for his new life.
hoshiarpurexpress
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Hezbollah a resistance force lol.. has to be a joke right. It's a terror organisation.
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31 people killed, including three children, in Israeli attack on Beirut
The Lebanese health ministry says the number of people killed in an Israeli attack on Beirut on Friday has risen to 31, including three children.
BBC
The Lebanese health ministry says the number of people killed in an Israeli attack on Beirut on Friday has risen to 31, including three children.
BBC
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Hezbollah says Ahmed Wahbi killed
This morning, Hezbollah says another of its senior commanders was killed in the Israeli attack on a Beirut suburb yesterday.
Reuters news agency reports that Ahmed Wahbi oversaw the military operations of Hezbollah's Radwan forces for a period until early 2024.
BBC
This morning, Hezbollah says another of its senior commanders was killed in the Israeli attack on a Beirut suburb yesterday.
Reuters news agency reports that Ahmed Wahbi oversaw the military operations of Hezbollah's Radwan forces for a period until early 2024.
BBC
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Dozens of rockets fired into Israel from Lebanon, IDF says
A "barrage" of rockets has been fired into northern Israel from Lebanon overnight, according to the Israeli army, as Hezbollah targeted industrial and military sites.
Most of the 105 rockets were intercepted, though some homes were hit. Air raid sirens sounded throughout the night, the Israel Defense Forces said.
Hezbollah said it had fired dozens of rockets towards targets in northern Israel in retaliation for last week's pager and walkie-talkie attacks.
Israel has also continued attacking targets in Lebanon following Friday's air strike in Beirut which the IDF said killed a dozen senior Hezbollah commanders. Lebanon said 37 people - including three children - were killed.
Video posted online overnight, so far unverified by the BBC, appears to show a fire in a residential area near Haifa after it was hit by a Hezbollah rocket.
On Saturday, dozens of fighter jets started "extensively" striking southern Lebanon "following detection of Hezbollah preparing to fire toward Israeli territory", Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman Rear Adm Daniel Hagari said.
Before the evening Israeli strikes began, the IDF said earlier it had destroyed "about 180 sites and thousands of [rocket] launcher barrels" with strikes
Earlier this week, 39 people were killed and thousands wounded after pagers and walkie-talkies used by Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed militia and political group, exploded on two days across Lebanon.
On Thursday, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah blamed Israel for the attacks, saying it had crossed "all red lines" and vowed "just punishment".
Israel has not claimed responsibility.
UN human rights chief Volker Türk said the pager and walkie-talkie explosions violated international humanitarian law.
On Sunday morning, the IDF announced an expansion of new restrictions on communities in northern Israel and parts of the southern Golan Heights that had come into effect at 20:30 local time (17:30 GMT) the night before.
The IDF's Home Front Command limited gatherings to 10 participants in an open area and 100 participants in a closed space. Educational activities can continue and arrival to work is permitted as long as there are protected spaces available.
The restrictions apply to the Haifa area and northward.
As fears increase that the conflict may break out into a full-scale war, the US State Department issued new travel advice for citizens currently in Lebanon.
The US Embassy in Beirut has urged people to "depart Lebanon while commercial options still remain available", noting they were already running at "reduced capacity".
The embassy added it "may not be able to assist US citizens who choose to remain".
Neighbouring Jordan's foreign ministry issued similar advice to its citizens, urging those in Lebanon to leave as soon as possible.
Cross-border fighting between Israel and Hezbollah escalated on 8 October 2023 - the day after the attack on Israel by Hamas gunmen from Gaza - when Hezbollah fired at Israeli positions in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Israel recently added the return of people displaced from the north of the country due to the cross-border fighting to its list of war goals.
Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said on Thursday that Israel was entering a "new phase of the war" concentrating more of its efforts in the north.
BBC
A "barrage" of rockets has been fired into northern Israel from Lebanon overnight, according to the Israeli army, as Hezbollah targeted industrial and military sites.
Most of the 105 rockets were intercepted, though some homes were hit. Air raid sirens sounded throughout the night, the Israel Defense Forces said.
Hezbollah said it had fired dozens of rockets towards targets in northern Israel in retaliation for last week's pager and walkie-talkie attacks.
Israel has also continued attacking targets in Lebanon following Friday's air strike in Beirut which the IDF said killed a dozen senior Hezbollah commanders. Lebanon said 37 people - including three children - were killed.
Video posted online overnight, so far unverified by the BBC, appears to show a fire in a residential area near Haifa after it was hit by a Hezbollah rocket.
On Saturday, dozens of fighter jets started "extensively" striking southern Lebanon "following detection of Hezbollah preparing to fire toward Israeli territory", Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman Rear Adm Daniel Hagari said.
Before the evening Israeli strikes began, the IDF said earlier it had destroyed "about 180 sites and thousands of [rocket] launcher barrels" with strikes
Earlier this week, 39 people were killed and thousands wounded after pagers and walkie-talkies used by Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed militia and political group, exploded on two days across Lebanon.
On Thursday, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah blamed Israel for the attacks, saying it had crossed "all red lines" and vowed "just punishment".
Israel has not claimed responsibility.
UN human rights chief Volker Türk said the pager and walkie-talkie explosions violated international humanitarian law.
On Sunday morning, the IDF announced an expansion of new restrictions on communities in northern Israel and parts of the southern Golan Heights that had come into effect at 20:30 local time (17:30 GMT) the night before.
The IDF's Home Front Command limited gatherings to 10 participants in an open area and 100 participants in a closed space. Educational activities can continue and arrival to work is permitted as long as there are protected spaces available.
The restrictions apply to the Haifa area and northward.
As fears increase that the conflict may break out into a full-scale war, the US State Department issued new travel advice for citizens currently in Lebanon.
The US Embassy in Beirut has urged people to "depart Lebanon while commercial options still remain available", noting they were already running at "reduced capacity".
The embassy added it "may not be able to assist US citizens who choose to remain".
Neighbouring Jordan's foreign ministry issued similar advice to its citizens, urging those in Lebanon to leave as soon as possible.
Cross-border fighting between Israel and Hezbollah escalated on 8 October 2023 - the day after the attack on Israel by Hamas gunmen from Gaza - when Hezbollah fired at Israeli positions in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Israel recently added the return of people displaced from the north of the country due to the cross-border fighting to its list of war goals.
Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said on Thursday that Israel was entering a "new phase of the war" concentrating more of its efforts in the north.
BBC
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Netanyahu says Israel has hit Hezbollah in ways it could not imagine
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has issued a statement form his office. In it, he said Israel has in recent days dealt Hezbollah “a series of blows it could not have imagined”.
“If Hezbollah has not understood the message, I promise you, it will understand the message,” Netanyahu said, as he promised the return of northern residents who were evacuated due to attacks by Hezbollah in Lebanon.
“No country can tolerate firing on its citizens, on its cities, and us – the State of Israel – will not tolerate it. We will do everything necessary to restore security,” Netanyahu was quoted as saying.
Source: The Guardian
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has issued a statement form his office. In it, he said Israel has in recent days dealt Hezbollah “a series of blows it could not have imagined”.
“If Hezbollah has not understood the message, I promise you, it will understand the message,” Netanyahu said, as he promised the return of northern residents who were evacuated due to attacks by Hezbollah in Lebanon.
“No country can tolerate firing on its citizens, on its cities, and us – the State of Israel – will not tolerate it. We will do everything necessary to restore security,” Netanyahu was quoted as saying.
Source: The Guardian
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Israeli strikes on southern Lebanon to continue until residents in north safe to return, Gallant says
The Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant has said Israeli strikes on Lebanon would continue until it was safe for evacuated people in the north of Israel to return.
“Hezbollah has begun to feel some of the capabilities of the Israel Defense Forces … and we are seeing the results,” Gallant said during a tour of the Israeli Air Force’s command and control room.
“These moves will continue until we reach a situation where we safely return the residents of the north to their homes. This is the goal, this is the mission, and we will do everything necessary to meet it,” he added, in comments reporting by the Times of Israel.
Hezbollah has vowed to fight on until a ceasefire in the war in Gaza, setting the stage for a long conflict.
Source: The Guardian
The Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant has said Israeli strikes on Lebanon would continue until it was safe for evacuated people in the north of Israel to return.
“Hezbollah has begun to feel some of the capabilities of the Israel Defense Forces … and we are seeing the results,” Gallant said during a tour of the Israeli Air Force’s command and control room.
“These moves will continue until we reach a situation where we safely return the residents of the north to their homes. This is the goal, this is the mission, and we will do everything necessary to meet it,” he added, in comments reporting by the Times of Israel.
Hezbollah has vowed to fight on until a ceasefire in the war in Gaza, setting the stage for a long conflict.
Source: The Guardian
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Hezbollah says confrontation with Israel now 'open-ended battle of reckoning'
Hezbollah deputy secretary-general Naim Qassem has said that the group had entered a new phase of its battle with Israel, which he described as an "open-ended battle of reckoning".The comments were made during a funeral for a top commander killed in an Israeli strike on Beirut's southern suburb.
Hezbollah has vowed to retaliate against Israel for a wave of explosions that hit pagers and walkie-talkies belonging to Hezbollah members on Tuesday and Wednesday, killing at least 37 people - including two children - and wounding about 3,000.
The attacks were widely blamed on Israel, which has not confirmed or denied responsibility.
Sky News
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