Hamas started the war kidnapping and killing innocent hostages. And they still have them. And Israel is reacting. Thats why starting wars is so dangerous. Can escalate very quickly with unintended consequences. So, if you start a war, you got to be prepared for the consequences. Have always believed wars must be the last option. Such a criminal waste of precious human life. Tough as it seems - talks are still he best way out. But if Hamas is insistent on wiping Israel off the map , no place for Israelis, entire land is ours nonsense - then they can expect a furious backlash by Israel.
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[VIDEOS] Hezbollah, resistance force from Lebanon: A decades-long conflict with Israel
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Nikhil_cric
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This. They may be a brutal oppressor state .But we need to maintain ties with them while being neutral with the Palestinians .
We have been providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinians and we should continue that.
JaDed
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Gold Apollo says it did not make pagers used in Lebanon explosions
NEW TAIPEI, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Taiwan's Gold Apollo did not make the pagers that were used in the detonations in Lebanon on Tuesday, the company's founder Hsu Ching-Kuang told reporters on Wednesday.
At least nine people were killed and nearly 3,000 wounded when pagers used by Hezbollah members detonated simultaneously across Lebanon on Tuesday.
Images of destroyed pagers analysed by Reuters showed a format and stickers on the back that were consistent with pagers made by Gold Apollo. A senior Lebanese security source told Reuters that Hezbollah had ordered 5,000 pagers from the Taiwan-based Gold Apollo.
Hsu said the pagers used in the explosion were made by a company in Europe that had the right to use the Taiwanese firm's brand.
"The product was not ours. It was only that it had our brand on it,' he said.
Hsu did not name the company which he said manufactured the pagers, adding Gold Apollo was also a victim of the incident.
"We are a responsible company. This is very embarrassing," he said.
Hezbollah fighters began using pagers in the belief they would be able to evade Israeli tracking of their locations, two sources familiar with the group's operations told Reuters this year.
JaDed
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Europe is involved in this debacle as per above report, wonder which country that is.
Cpt. Rishwat
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It has implications for countries that don't have friendly relations with israel. Industries based in hostile countries can be manipulated by mossad it would seem, so if you are living in Syria or Kuwait, you may now be wary of buying products sourced from Taiwan manufacturers.
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What we know about the Hezbollah pager explosions
Thousands of people have been injured in Lebanon, after pagers used by the armed group Hezbollah to communicate dramatically exploded almost simultaneously across the country on Tuesday.
At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured, many of them seriously.
It is unclear how the attack - which looks to have been highly sophisticated - occurred, though Hezbollah has blamed its adversary Israel. Israeli officials have so far declined to comment.
Here is what we know so far.
When and where did it happen?
The blasts began in Lebanon's capital Beirut and several other areas of the country at about 15:45 local time (13:45 BST) on Tuesday.
Witnesses reported seeing smoke coming from people's pockets, before seeing small explosions that sounded like fireworks and gunshots.
In one clip, CCTV footage appeared to show an explosion in a man’s trouser pocket as he stood at a shop till.
Explosions continued for around an hour after the initial blasts, the Reuters news agency reported.
Soon after, scores of people began arriving at hospitals across Lebanon, with witnesses reporting scenes of mass confusion.
How did the pagers explode?
Analysts have been quick to express shock at the scale of Tuesday's attack - saying Hezbollah prides itself on its security measures.
Some suggested a hack may have caused the pager batteries to overheat, causing the devices to explode. Such an act would be unprecedented.
But many experts say that is unlikely, with footage of the explosions inconsistent with the batteries overheating.
Some analysts say instead that some sort of supply chain attack, which involved the pagers being tampered with during their manufacture or in transit, was more likely.
Supply chain attacks are a growing concern in the cyber security world with many high-profile incidents recently caused by hackers gaining access to products whilst they are in development.
But these attacks are normally contained to software. Hardware supply chain attacks are far rarer as they involve getting hands on to the device.
If this was indeed a supply chain attack it would have involved a huge operation to secretly tamper with the pagers in some way.
A former British Army munitions expert, who asked not to be named, told the BBC the devices could have been packed with between 10 to 20 grams each of military-grade high explosive, hidden inside a fake electronic component.
This, said the expert, would have been armed by a signal, something called an alphanumeric text message.
What is known about the victims?
A source close to Hezbollah told AFP that two of those killed were the sons of two Hezbollah MPs. They also said the daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
Among the injured was Iran's ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani. Reports in Iranian media said his injuries were minor.
Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah was not hurt in the explosions, Reuters reported quoting a source.
Lebanese Public Health Minister Firass Abiad said damage to the hands and face made up the majority of injuries.
Speaking to the BBC's Newshour programme, he said: "Most of the injuries appear to be to the face and especially to the eyes and also the hand with some amputations, whether it's in the hands or the fingers, and some of them have injuries to their flank."
He added: "The vast majority of the people who are presenting to the emergency rooms are in civilian clothes, so it's very difficult to discern whether they belong to a certain entity like Hezbollah or others...
"But we are seeing among them people who are old or people who are very young, like the child who unfortunately died... and there are some of them who are healthcare workers," the minister said.
Outside of Lebanon, 14 people were injured in similar blasts in neighbouring Syria, according to UK-based campaign group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Who is responsible?
So far, nobody has claimed responsibility - though Lebanon's prime minister and Hezbollah have blamed Israel.
Prime Minister Najib Mikati said the explosions represented a “serious violation of Lebanese sovereignty and a crime by all standards”.
In its statement accusing Israel of being behind the attacks, Hezbollah said it held the country "fully responsible for this criminal aggression that also targeted civilians".
"This treacherous and criminal enemy will certainly receive its just punishment for this sinful aggression, whether it expects it or not," it added.
Israeli officials have not commented on the allegations, but most analysts agree that it seems likely it is behind the attack.
Prof Simon Mabon, chair in International Relations at Lancaster University, told the BBC: "We know that Israel has a precedent of using technology to track its target" - but he called the scale of this attack "unprecedented".
Lina Khatib, from the UK-based Chatham House, said the attack suggested that Israel has "deeply" infiltrated Hezbollah's "communications network".
Why does Hezbollah use pagers?
Hezbollah has relied heavily on pagers as a low-tech means of communications to try to evade location-tracking by Israel.
A pager is a wireless telecommunications device that receives and displays alphanumeric or voice messages.
Mobile phones have long since been abandoned as simply too vulnerable, as Israel’s assassination of the Hamas bomb-maker Yahya Ayyash demonstrated as long ago as 1996, when his phone exploded in his hand.
But one Hezbollah operative told the AP news agency that the pagers were a new brand that the group had not used before.
Emily Harding, an ex-analyst with the CIA, said the security breach was deeply embarrassing to Hezbollah.
"A breach of this magnitude is not only physically harmful, but will also make them question their entire security apparatus," she told the BBC.
"I would expect to see them conduct an intensive internal investigation that will distract them from a potential fight with Israel."
Will the Hezbollah-Israel conflict escalate?
Hezbollah is allied with Israel's arch-nemesis in the region, Iran. The group is part of Tehran's Axis of Resistance and has been engaged in a low-level war with Israel for months, frequently exchanging rocket and missile fire across Israel's northern border. Entire communities have been displaced from both sides.
The blasts came just hours after Israel's security cabinet made the safe return of residents to the north of the country an official war goal.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a visiting US official that Israel would "do what is necessary to ensure its security".
Earlier on Monday, Israel's domestic security agency said it had thwarted a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate a former official.
Despite the ongoing tensions, observers say that until now both sides have aimed to contain hostilities without crossing the line into full-scale war. But there are fears that the situation could spiral out of control, with Hezbollah already threatening to respond to Tuesday's explosions.
BBC
Thousands of people have been injured in Lebanon, after pagers used by the armed group Hezbollah to communicate dramatically exploded almost simultaneously across the country on Tuesday.
At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured, many of them seriously.
It is unclear how the attack - which looks to have been highly sophisticated - occurred, though Hezbollah has blamed its adversary Israel. Israeli officials have so far declined to comment.
Here is what we know so far.
When and where did it happen?
The blasts began in Lebanon's capital Beirut and several other areas of the country at about 15:45 local time (13:45 BST) on Tuesday.
Witnesses reported seeing smoke coming from people's pockets, before seeing small explosions that sounded like fireworks and gunshots.
In one clip, CCTV footage appeared to show an explosion in a man’s trouser pocket as he stood at a shop till.
Explosions continued for around an hour after the initial blasts, the Reuters news agency reported.
Soon after, scores of people began arriving at hospitals across Lebanon, with witnesses reporting scenes of mass confusion.
How did the pagers explode?
Analysts have been quick to express shock at the scale of Tuesday's attack - saying Hezbollah prides itself on its security measures.
Some suggested a hack may have caused the pager batteries to overheat, causing the devices to explode. Such an act would be unprecedented.
But many experts say that is unlikely, with footage of the explosions inconsistent with the batteries overheating.
Some analysts say instead that some sort of supply chain attack, which involved the pagers being tampered with during their manufacture or in transit, was more likely.
Supply chain attacks are a growing concern in the cyber security world with many high-profile incidents recently caused by hackers gaining access to products whilst they are in development.
But these attacks are normally contained to software. Hardware supply chain attacks are far rarer as they involve getting hands on to the device.
If this was indeed a supply chain attack it would have involved a huge operation to secretly tamper with the pagers in some way.
A former British Army munitions expert, who asked not to be named, told the BBC the devices could have been packed with between 10 to 20 grams each of military-grade high explosive, hidden inside a fake electronic component.
This, said the expert, would have been armed by a signal, something called an alphanumeric text message.
What is known about the victims?
A source close to Hezbollah told AFP that two of those killed were the sons of two Hezbollah MPs. They also said the daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
Among the injured was Iran's ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani. Reports in Iranian media said his injuries were minor.
Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah was not hurt in the explosions, Reuters reported quoting a source.
Lebanese Public Health Minister Firass Abiad said damage to the hands and face made up the majority of injuries.
Speaking to the BBC's Newshour programme, he said: "Most of the injuries appear to be to the face and especially to the eyes and also the hand with some amputations, whether it's in the hands or the fingers, and some of them have injuries to their flank."
He added: "The vast majority of the people who are presenting to the emergency rooms are in civilian clothes, so it's very difficult to discern whether they belong to a certain entity like Hezbollah or others...
"But we are seeing among them people who are old or people who are very young, like the child who unfortunately died... and there are some of them who are healthcare workers," the minister said.
Outside of Lebanon, 14 people were injured in similar blasts in neighbouring Syria, according to UK-based campaign group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Who is responsible?
So far, nobody has claimed responsibility - though Lebanon's prime minister and Hezbollah have blamed Israel.
Prime Minister Najib Mikati said the explosions represented a “serious violation of Lebanese sovereignty and a crime by all standards”.
In its statement accusing Israel of being behind the attacks, Hezbollah said it held the country "fully responsible for this criminal aggression that also targeted civilians".
"This treacherous and criminal enemy will certainly receive its just punishment for this sinful aggression, whether it expects it or not," it added.
Israeli officials have not commented on the allegations, but most analysts agree that it seems likely it is behind the attack.
Prof Simon Mabon, chair in International Relations at Lancaster University, told the BBC: "We know that Israel has a precedent of using technology to track its target" - but he called the scale of this attack "unprecedented".
Lina Khatib, from the UK-based Chatham House, said the attack suggested that Israel has "deeply" infiltrated Hezbollah's "communications network".
Why does Hezbollah use pagers?
Hezbollah has relied heavily on pagers as a low-tech means of communications to try to evade location-tracking by Israel.
A pager is a wireless telecommunications device that receives and displays alphanumeric or voice messages.
Mobile phones have long since been abandoned as simply too vulnerable, as Israel’s assassination of the Hamas bomb-maker Yahya Ayyash demonstrated as long ago as 1996, when his phone exploded in his hand.
But one Hezbollah operative told the AP news agency that the pagers were a new brand that the group had not used before.
Emily Harding, an ex-analyst with the CIA, said the security breach was deeply embarrassing to Hezbollah.
"A breach of this magnitude is not only physically harmful, but will also make them question their entire security apparatus," she told the BBC.
"I would expect to see them conduct an intensive internal investigation that will distract them from a potential fight with Israel."
Will the Hezbollah-Israel conflict escalate?
Hezbollah is allied with Israel's arch-nemesis in the region, Iran. The group is part of Tehran's Axis of Resistance and has been engaged in a low-level war with Israel for months, frequently exchanging rocket and missile fire across Israel's northern border. Entire communities have been displaced from both sides.
The blasts came just hours after Israel's security cabinet made the safe return of residents to the north of the country an official war goal.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a visiting US official that Israel would "do what is necessary to ensure its security".
Earlier on Monday, Israel's domestic security agency said it had thwarted a Hezbollah attempt to assassinate a former official.
Despite the ongoing tensions, observers say that until now both sides have aimed to contain hostilities without crossing the line into full-scale war. But there are fears that the situation could spiral out of control, with Hezbollah already threatening to respond to Tuesday's explosions.
BBC
Bhaijaan
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A huge opportunity for Bharatiya manufacturing industry
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Hezbollah exploding pager trail runs from Taiwan to Hungary
The detonation of thousands of pagers targeting Hezbollah in Lebanon has left a mysterious trail from Taiwan to Hungary, while raising the prospect of another full-scale war in the Middle East between the Iran-backed group and arch-foe Israel.
Israel's Mossad spy agency, which has a long history of pulling off sophisticated attacks on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations that killed nine people, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told Reuters.
The operation was an unprecedented Hezbollah security breach that saw thousands of pagers explode across Lebanon, wounding nearly 3,000 people, including many of the group's fighters and Iran's envoy to Beirut.
The Lebanese security source said the pagers were from Taiwan-based Gold Apollo, but the company said in a statement it did not manufacture the devices. It said they were made by a company called BAC - based in the Hungarian capital - which has a licence to use its brand.
Iran-backed Hezbollah has vowed to retaliate against Israel, whose military declined to comment on the blasts. The two sides have been engaged in cross-border warfare since the Gaza conflict erupted last October.
While the war in Gaza has been Israel's main focus since the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas-led gunmen, fighting along Israel's northern border with Lebanon has fueled fears of a regional conflict that could drag in the United States and Iran.
"Hezbollah wants to avoid an all-out war. It still wants to avoid one. But given the scale, the impact on families, on civilians, there will be pressure for a stronger response," said Mohanad Hage Ali of the Carnegie Middle East Center.
Hezbollah said in a statement on Wednesday that "the resistance will continue today, like any other day, its operations to support Gaza, its people and its resistance which is a separate path from the harsh punishment that the criminal enemy (Israel) should await in response to Tuesday's massacre".
The plot appears to have been many months in the making, several sources told Reuters. It followed a series of assassinations of Hezbollah and Hamas commanders and leaders blamed on Israel since the start of the Gaza war.
The senior Lebanese security source said the group had ordered 5,000 pagers from Gold Apollo, which several sources say were brought into the country earlier this year.
Gold Apollo founder Hsu Ching-Kuang said the pagers used in the explosion were made by a company in Europe that Gold Apollo named in a statement as BAC.
"The product was not ours. It was only that it had our brand on it," Hsu told reporters at the company's offices in the northern Taiwanese city of New Taipei on Wednesday.
The stated address for BAC Consulting in Hungary's capital Budapest was a peach building on a mostly residential street in an outer suburb. The company name was posted on the glass door on an A4 sheet.
A person at the building who asked not to be named said BAC Consulting was registered at the address but did not have a physical presence there. The CEO of BAC Consulting, Cristiana Barsony-Arcidiacono says on her LinkedIn profile that she has worked as an adviser for various organisations including UNESCO. She did not respond to emails from Reuters.
BAC's registered activities are wide ranging, from computer game publishing to IT consulting to crude oil extraction.
The senior Lebanese security source identified a photograph of the model of the pager, an AR-924. Hezbollah fighters have been using pagers as a low-tech means of communication in an attempt to evade Israeli location-tracking.
The senior Lebanese source said the devices had been modified by Israel's spy service "at the production level."
"The Mossad injected a board inside of the device that has explosive material that receives a code. It's very hard to detect it through any means," the source said.
The source said about 3,000 of the pagers exploded when a coded message was sent to them, simultaneously activating the explosives.
Another security source told Reuters that up to three grams of explosives were hidden in the new pagers and had gone "undetected" by Hezbollah for months.
Israel's Mossad has gained notoriety for its complex operations stretching back to the daring 1960 abduction of high-ranking Nazi Adolf Eichmann. More recently, the spy agency has been blamed for cyber attacks and the assassination of a top Iranian scientist in 2020 with a remote-controlled machinegun.
Hezbollah was reeling from the attack, which left fighters and others bloodied, hospitalised or dead. One Hezbollah official said the detonation was the group's "biggest security breach" in its history.
In a televised speech on Feb. 13, the group's Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah sternly warned supporters that their phones were more dangerous than Israeli spies, saying they should break, bury or lock them in an iron box.
Instead, Hezbollah opted to distribute pagers to its members across the group's various branches - from fighters to medics working in its relief services.
The explosions maimed many Hezbollah members, according to footage from hospitals reviewed by Reuters. Wounded men had injuries of varying degrees to the face, missing fingers and gaping wounds at the hip where the pagers were likely worn.
A missile barrage by Hezbollah the day after Oct. 7 opened the latest phase of conflict and since then there have been daily exchanges of rockets, artillery fire and missiles, with Israeli jets striking deep into Lebanese territory.
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant told U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Monday that the window was closing for a diplomatic solution to the standoff with Hezbollah.
DeadlyVenom
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You have described the Israeli stance very well here regarding the wiping off the map etc. They have openly said this.
Do you think the Israelis should expect a furious backlash?
JaDed
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One of the manufacturing company I consult for has high Taiwanese presence including the CEO, in all honesty entire world’s chip manufacturing involves Taiwan in some capacity, it’s near impossible not to.
This is the very reason this case has me bothered as to where did this occur, because many US companies with Taiwanese presence and Ceos always have a European manufacturing location including the one I consult for, and their parts are used in a majority of electronics around the world.
Making an electronic device is not one stop shop for any manufacturer materials chips are sourced from across, what happened here is a big issue.
JaDed
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There is not a single nationality that can replace Taiwanese people’s capability in manufacturing semiconductors/chips, in terms of cost.
Thats the fact and not Israeli stance. Hamas Iran and Hezbollah have openly said that. Hamas charter had it as well. So you start a war- then be prepared for the consequences. Why do nb you run around and ask for ceasefires? Thats the danger of wars- Unknown consequences. Naive of you to pretend otherwise. If you start a war- you are the aggressor. So expect retaliation and don't go crying for ceasefires to the US.. Instead of imparting education to kids- hamas is arming them with weapons and making them into terrorists.
And as far as Israel is concerned- yes they are expecting further backlash. Its a struggle for their existence literally and figuratively. So yes they will retaliate with all their might.
Bhaijaan
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Never underestimate Bharatiyas.
Look at what we did with space rocket technology and made it affordable for college students to launch their own payload.
sweep_shot
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What if Israel does this in other countries too?
Israel is becoming more and more rogue. Complete disregard for international norms.
Israel is becoming more and more rogue. Complete disregard for international norms.
Cpt. Rishwat
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You are right, once the state of israel was established and Palestine was wiped off the map, from that point on it was always going to be a struggle for israeli existence. It won't end with wiping out Palestine though, because it seems Muslims in general don't accept it. This might be a reason the zionist state is so keen for other Muslim countries to give it official recognition.
Deny history conveniently. Arab nations and Palestine attacked Israel in 1948 and "lost " the war. They were the aggressors. And lost. Did the same in 1967 and lost again. So you " start" the war - you are the " aggressor " and then lose the wars and then claim all land as yours. What irony!! Palestine rejected the british 2 state option and went to wars in 48 and 67 and are the victims. Yeah got it..
Cpt. Rishwat
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1948 was after Palestine was wiped off the map and replaced with Israel. If you are going to dispute history at least address the same time period.
JaDed
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Chinese are better than us in Space technology and even they aren’t able to compete with Taiwanese.
JaDed
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The biggest issue here is Hungary, every manufacturing company has plants over europe esp Hungary for cheap labor.
Irrespective more security means more jobs on Quality Assurance, IT , networks, good for Indians I suppose.
The death of the little girl though is brutal and whoever had the pager her is also responsible for this esp if he was in Hezbollah.
Irrespective more security means more jobs on Quality Assurance, IT , networks, good for Indians I suppose.
The death of the little girl though is brutal and whoever had the pager her is also responsible for this esp if he was in Hezbollah.
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Walkie Talkies Explode In Hezbollah Strongholds Day After Pager Blasts
A day after pagers exploded across Lebanon, killing nine people and injuring more than 2,800 others, sources close to Lebanese militant outfit Hezbollah said walkie-talkies have blown up at strongholds across Beirut.
How many walkie-talkies blew up are not know yet, but casualties are feared.
Iran-backed Hezbollah said today that it attacked Israeli artillery positions with rockets in the first strike at its arch-rival since pager blasts wounded thousands of its members in Lebanon and raised the prospect of a wider Middle East war.
Israel's spy agency Mossad, which has a long history of sophisticated operations on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told news agency Reuters.
Last evening, Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad confirmed that nine people were killed and around 2,800 wounded in the incident.
The minister, in a televised press conference, said the blasts "killed nine people, including a girl", adding that "About 2,800 people were injured and more than 200 of them critically". The injuries were mostly on the face, hands and stomach, he had said.
Iran's state media had reported that its Ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was also wounded in yesterday's pager incident.
Source: NDTV
A day after pagers exploded across Lebanon, killing nine people and injuring more than 2,800 others, sources close to Lebanese militant outfit Hezbollah said walkie-talkies have blown up at strongholds across Beirut.
How many walkie-talkies blew up are not know yet, but casualties are feared.
Iran-backed Hezbollah said today that it attacked Israeli artillery positions with rockets in the first strike at its arch-rival since pager blasts wounded thousands of its members in Lebanon and raised the prospect of a wider Middle East war.
Israel's spy agency Mossad, which has a long history of sophisticated operations on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told news agency Reuters.
Last evening, Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad confirmed that nine people were killed and around 2,800 wounded in the incident.
The minister, in a televised press conference, said the blasts "killed nine people, including a girl", adding that "About 2,800 people were injured and more than 200 of them critically". The injuries were mostly on the face, hands and stomach, he had said.
Iran's state media had reported that its Ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was also wounded in yesterday's pager incident.
Source: NDTV
JaDed
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Explosions witnessed at Beirut funeral for Hezbollah members and a child killed in pager attack
Explosions witnessed at Beirut funeral for Hezbollah members and a child killed in pager attack
Multiple explosions occurred at the site of a funeral for three Hezbollah members and a child killed by exploding pagers the day before, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
apnews.com
Lebanese are Idiots clearly
JaDed
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This is what Iran has come to, it’s telling Israel’s allies to feel shame over Pager attacks, they have literally flattened Gaza and look at these guys.
Iran should just shut up and sit at home.
shortbread
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They selectively target nations that are insignificant enough to evade significant international condemnation, revealing a stark truth: there is minimal concern for the Lebanese, even less so than for the Palestinians.
Exactly these iranians have done a massive deservice to the palestinian cause through it's proxy hamas.
They are an absolute embarrassment they even failed to protect ismail haniyeh under their own nose something even qatar managed , qatar even managed to protect the taliban delegations
The Arab states didn't attack Israel in 1967. Israel conducted a pre-emptive strike.
You may be thinking of 1973. Egypt and Syria were seeking to reclaim their lost territories from 1967 - and Egypt eventually took back the Sinai via talks.
JaDed
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Egypt knew what it was doing in 1967.. it expelled UNEF that could had kept Sinhai safe.
The consequences of 1967 are to this day felt across the middle east, and yes 1948 too but 1967 positioned only one as a winner.
rpant_gabba
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What do international norms say about kidnapping civilians and holding them as hostages? or is this your usual islamist hypocrisy?
Check history. Arabs * Palestinians rejected British 2 state plan in 1948. And then "went" to war for all or nothing. They were the aggressors. Then they "lost" the war. If you go to war that you start and then lose - you want all the land back ? How ridiculous is it ? They should have worked on the 2 state plan at the time peacefully. Again did the same in 1967. They "started" the war and again "lost" . So you keep losing wars you start and then cry victim. Wheres the logic here ?
Repeating. Check history. Arabs * Palestinians rejected British 2 state plan in 1948. And then "went" to war for all or nothing. They were the aggressors. Then they "lost" the war. If you go to war that you start and then lose - you want all the land back ? How ridiculous is it ? They should have worked on the 2 state plan at the time peacefully.
Again did the same in 1967. They "started" the war and again "lost" . They went to war to "reclaim lost territories" as u yourself say. They lost those in a war they initiated . So its not something that was taken by Israel. You start a war and you lose every time and say I am a victim ??
Wheres the logic here ?
Iran is all talk and no action. Have said that here repeatedly. And posterd would be like Iran is taking its time as its planning something big and major lol !
This.
War was fought for land and Arabs lost badly both in 1948 as well as 1967. It was not just the war they lost. They also lost land to Israel. This is the what happens when wars are fought over land. The winner gets the spoils.
But we hear even the west slogans like Israelis are occupying forces and from river to the sea, Palestine will be free etc. The reality is, Palestinian land was gone the moment they lost the war.
It was only due to the goodwill of Israel that Arabs even got Gaza and West Bank.
Why not !! How dare you suggest anything otherwise to the "Chosen qaum" by no less authority than God himself!!. I dare you to refute that.
you need to understand that "logic" is defined very very very differently with Muslims. If you ask me to pseudo-code this it would be something like this:
if ( Muslim == true )
{
All_Is_well()
}
else
{
Call Convert()
Call Kill()
}
This worked for nearly 14 centuries. But when it comes to Modern day Israel they are into the else condition and they dont know what to do when the opposition is suddenly using their own Kill() routine against them !
rpant_gabba
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IF only there was a plan that would have worked out well for both parties
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
In case anyone is confused, arabs attacked jews well before Israel was close being a reality
Izz ad-Din al-Qassam - Wikipedia
Hamas still has a faction on Al Qassam’s name.IF only there was a plan that would have worked out well for both parties
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In case anyone is confused, arabs attacked jews well before Israel was close being a reality
Izz ad-Din al-Qassam - Wikipedia
rpant_gabba
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surprised the heavyweights are staying away from this thread. I recall celebration in the first couple of days of this conflict
where is it going now @KingKhanWC ?
where is it going now @KingKhanWC ?
Cpt. Rishwat
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IF only there was a plan that would have worked out well for both parties
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
In case anyone is confused, arabs attacked jews well before Israel was close being a reality
Izz ad-Din al-Qassam - Wikipedia
That article clarifies that the British were already on their way to helping the zionists implement their plan for israel and he was an opponent.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I agree I don't see any point in crying victim. If there is no peaceful solution then it has to be war.
Again I reiterate - Israel conducted a pre-emptive war in 1967. The Arab states did not attack Israel first in 1967. That's not my opinion but historical fact which can be easily checked.
That war is the root of the problems today.
As for 1948 - look it's easy to say the Palestinians should've accepted the UN Partition Plan with the benefit of 75+ years hindsight. Had they foreseen the next 75 years of occupation and displacement they surely would've reached a different conclusion. I don't contest that their leadership has often been inept and short-sighted.
However their argument at the time was the best agricultural farmland would be transferred to Israeli territory, and that Israel was granted a disproportionately higher share of the land given its population.
As for your argument that winners take the spoils - it's actually Israel who established the precedent of land for peace. They withdrew from the Sinai for peace with Egypt after the Camp David Accords. That remains the only solution to their conflict with the Palestinians who without any political horizon will continue their armed resistance.
The Arabs do not have Gaza and the West Bank. I'm amazed at some of the history lessons being given here !
The Palestinians have limited authority over 40% of the West Bank. Israel still conducts military raids at will. The PA have been powerless to stop the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. Even Western news outlets refer to the West Bank as Occupied West Bank in their bulletins.
Even before October 7, Israel controlled Gaza's airspace and territorial waters. It severely rationed food into Gaza meaning 64% of its residents in 2022 were classed as food insecure. The same article also show restrictions meant 97% of Gaza's water was labelled unfit for human consumption in 2019. Former UK PM David Cameron described Gaza as an "open air prison" in 2010. I guess he must be an undercover Hamas operative ?
So let's stop this pearl clutching about Hamas old charter (have you seen Likud's Charter ?) or silly chanting at protests and focus on the bigger picture. Israel created the conditions for October 7 through its actions, and are currently sowing the seeds for future October 7s. Only diplomacy and compromise will end the violence - something Netanyahu and his far-right goons adamantly refuse to do.
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Israel bombs southern Lebanon after radio blasts
Israel bombed southern Lebanon on Thursday and said it had thwarted an Iranian-led assassination plot, a day after explosions of Hezbollah radios that came on the heels of blasts in booby trapped pagers, setting the foes hurtling towards war.
The sophisticated attacks on armed group Hezbollah’s communications equipment, which killed 37 people and wounded around 3,000 over two days, sowed disarray in Lebanon, with panicked residents abandoning their mobile phones.
“This isn’t a small matter, it’s war. Who can even secure their phone now? When I heard about what happened yesterday, I left my phone on my motorcycle and walked away,” said Mustafa Sibal on a street near central Beirut.
A distant roar in the skies could be heard in Beirut from what Lebanese state media said was Israeli jets breaking the sound barrier - a sound that has grown increasingly common in recent months.
Israel said its warplanes struck villages in southern Lebanon overnight, and a security source and Hezbollah’s al-Manar TV reported airstrikes near the border resumed on Thursday just after midday.
Hand-held radios used by Hezbollah detonated on Wednesday across Lebanon’s south.
The Lebanese health minister raised the death toll, saying 25 people had been killed and 608 injured in the country’s deadliest day since cross-border fighting erupted between the militants and Israel in parallel with the Gaza war last year.
The previous day, hundreds of pagers - used by Hezbollah to evade mobile phone surveillance - exploded at once, killing 12 people including two children, and injuring more than 2,300.
In a post on X, Lebanese Prime Minister Najib Mikati called on the United Nations Security Council to take a firm stand to stop Israel’s “aggression” and “technological war” against his country.
Israel has not commented directly on the booby-trapped walkie-talkies and pagers, but multiple security sources have said the attacks were carried out by its spy agency Mossad.
Israel says its conflict with Hezbollah, like its war in Gaza against Palestinian militant group Hamas, is part of a wider regional confrontation with Iran, which sponsors both groups as well as armed movements in Syria, Yemen and Iraq.
On Thursday Israeli security forces announced that an Israeli businessman had been arrested last month after attending at least two meetings in Iran, where he discussed assassinating Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the defense minister or the head of the Shin Bet spy agency.
Last week, Shin Bet uncovered what it said was a plot by Hezbollah to assassinate former Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon.
Israel has been accused of assassinations including a blast in Tehran that killed the leader of Hamas and another in a Beirut suburb that killed a senior Hezbollah commander within hours of each other in July.
Despite the events of the past few days, a spokesperson for the UN peacekeeping mission in southern Lebanon said the situation along the frontier had “not changed much in terms of exchanges of fire between the parties.”
“There was an intensification last week. This week it is more or less the same. There are still exchanges of fire. It is still worrying, still concerning, and the rhetoric is high,” the spokesperson, Andrea Tenenti, told Reuters.
Israel and Hezbollah have been exchanging fire across the Israeli-Lebanon border in parallel with the war Israel has waged in Gaza against Hamas, the Palestinian militant group whose fighters attacked Israel on Oct. 7.
Tens of thousands of people have had to flee the Israel-Lebanon border area on both sides. Netanyahu vowed on Wednesday to return the evacuated Israelis “securely to their homes.”
Shifting focus
The Israeli military said its overnight air strikes hit Hezbollah targets in Chihine, Tayibe, Blida, Meiss El Jabal, Aitaroun and Kfarkela in southern Lebanon, as well as a Hezbollah weapons storage facility in the area of Khiam.
Israeli media reported that a number of Israeli civilians had been wounded by anti-tank missile fire from Lebanon, but there was no official confirmation.
On Wednesday, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said the war was moving into a new phase, with more resources and military units now being shifted to the northern border.
According to Israeli officials, the forces being deployed there include the 98th Division, an elite formation including commando and paratroop elements that has been fighting in Gaza.
Hezbollah launched missile barrages on Israel on the day after the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas, and since then there has been a constant exchange of fire that neither side has allowed to escalate into a full-scale war.
However, tens of thousands have been evacuated on both sides of the border, and there has been mounting pressure in Israel for the government to get the evacuees back home.
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