I would say rizwan is a better player on leg side compared to off. He can't play off side at all is somewhat an exaggeration by you. I liked fakhar in his early days but now i call him a hack beacuse nowadays his focus is either block or else muscle the ball on mid wicket, though he has the ability to play all around which he has shown during the start of his career.
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[VIDEOS] How long is the rope for Mohammad Rizwan in ODIs?
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He's been a disaster thus far in ODI's. Just can't seem to crack this format.
People need to wake up.
Having a WK batter who can bat in the top 5 in odis is gold dust to team balance.
We have hardly played odis since the Rizwan beast mode got turned on 18 months ago.
Also, remember the world cup is in India so somebody who can manouevre spin and use the sweep shots is priceless in the middle overs, and can turn 1s into 2s.
He needs to be backed fully. It shouldn't even be coming into question. He gets the world cup.
Why do PPers lover knee jerk reactions- most people here would be changing the eleven every series
Having a WK batter who can bat in the top 5 in odis is gold dust to team balance.
We have hardly played odis since the Rizwan beast mode got turned on 18 months ago.
Also, remember the world cup is in India so somebody who can manouevre spin and use the sweep shots is priceless in the middle overs, and can turn 1s into 2s.
He needs to be backed fully. It shouldn't even be coming into question. He gets the world cup.
Why do PPers lover knee jerk reactions- most people here would be changing the eleven every series
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Rana
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The amount of pressure Fakhar and Imam are under to not get injured and perform is insurmountable knowing how the PCB are looking for a reason to demote them
Bewal Express
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Whenever he walks out to bat, i feel at ease and as long as that ease stays, Riz plays the way he wants. Today he didn't finish the job but I am sure he will finish many games
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12 from 24 so far in the 1st ODI vs WI, with the RRR at 7.75.
Still doesn't seem to have found his feet in the ODI format.
Still doesn't seem to have found his feet in the ODI format.
RedwoodOriginal
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I love Rizwan but how long before he finally finds his feet in ODIs?
He badly needs to make this innings to mean something. Because he's played 30 balls and there is no excuse to get out now that he is set.
He badly needs to make this innings to mean something. Because he's played 30 balls and there is no excuse to get out now that he is set.
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Out for 59 (61) at a crucial time.
Amjid Javed
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pathetic inns, people can look at final strike rate all they want, fact is hes let chasing Run rate spiral out of control.
RedwoodOriginal
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It was a pretty good innings from someone who has been struggling badly in this format. Despite the lethargic start he was able to make up for it increased that strike-rate significantly. Without the partnership between him and Babar the stage would not have been set for Khushdil to come in and finish the game off.
What I would like to see from Rizwan though is consistency. There is no reason why he shouldn't be averaging 40+ in this format.
What I would like to see from Rizwan though is consistency. There is no reason why he shouldn't be averaging 40+ in this format.
Amjid Javed
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i take it you were asleep during todays game.
I find it hilarious that you always find issues with pakistan cricket team. You look at this team as if they are top level team facing minnows, always complaining.
Every other run chases we will have either in odi or t20 are gonna be like this.
Rizwan and babar have their role in the middle and they will keep on doing that no matter how much you complain. As long as either player is crossing 50 runs, they will inshallah not get dropped.
The likes of asif, khushdil, nawaz, and iftikhar are given that charge to finish
People dont realize the roles of players. They think a top order batter should also be finishing games.. but for that you need that type of players.
Iftikhar is someone that can play that dual role but not every other player.
You need to know a player's capaibility before going on to critisize.
Fed up with the arm chair critics going after babar and rizwan.
This lot deserves umar akmal
Exactly some people don't know about certain roles in a team.
Kroll
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Rizwan’s stock scoring shot is the pull sweep off the hip to leg. Aside from this, he doesn’t have many other shots in his arsenal.
We need a proper batsman playing at 4 which is arguably the most crucial spot,
Rizwan can get away with things in hit n giggle cricket like T20 but he’s more exposed in ODI cricket.
I guess we’ll have to put up with it as there is a lack of options in the middle order.
We need a proper batsman playing at 4 which is arguably the most crucial spot,
Rizwan can get away with things in hit n giggle cricket like T20 but he’s more exposed in ODI cricket.
I guess we’ll have to put up with it as there is a lack of options in the middle order.
RedwoodOriginal
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10 years ago a target of 300 usually meant the game was done and dusted before Pakistan's runchase even began. So you'd think that fans would be a little more grateful that we finally have a batting order capable of gunning down 300+ totals and batters who are world-class in every sense of the word. But I guess people find negativity in just about everything.
Rana
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Rana
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Is this thread only active if Rizwan is doing well?
Mamoon
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I started liking Rizwan less after I watched the 2nd ODI between Pakistan and Australia in the Lahore stadium. The only match I watched in a stadium since 2006.
He was late on every single ball and didn’t look like an international grade batsman at all. The gulf between him and Babar/Imam was huge.
Having said that, he is a good player for our pathetic standards and he deserves to open in ODIs. I would drop Fakhar to 4 ask him to bat aggressively in the middle-order.
Our ODI batting unit immediately looks better If Rizwan can average 40 at a SR of 95 as an opener and Fakhar can average 35 at a SR of 100+ at 4.
He was late on every single ball and didn’t look like an international grade batsman at all. The gulf between him and Babar/Imam was huge.
Having said that, he is a good player for our pathetic standards and he deserves to open in ODIs. I would drop Fakhar to 4 ask him to bat aggressively in the middle-order.
Our ODI batting unit immediately looks better If Rizwan can average 40 at a SR of 95 as an opener and Fakhar can average 35 at a SR of 100+ at 4.
Eye test is probably not the ideal way to judge talent. Same Rizwan also dominated stronger Aussie bowling in semi finals T20s.
Fakhar already averages 45+ at SR of 95ish so would be to pompous to fix what ain’t broken.
Rizwan has done well enough in T20s/tests to deserve a long rope at 4. He’s doing ok and will only get better.
Pak’s problem is no5.
Mohd Haris should get 15 more games. Ultimately, what’s worse is rotating talent preventing anyone from developing
Rizwan has to open he doesn't have the game to come in the middle order or late order he needs to start upfront same way he does in t20s and build his innings and get going , fakhar would be better coming down the order as a pinch hitter slogger type role he fits that tulla baaz role better
Titan24
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He seems to be the best WK option currently for ODIs if we take into account other options. The only other middle order WK batsmen who has impressed in recent times in List A cricket is Mohammad Haris who is still developing. Rohail has been struggling to create impact and is not in best of the forms since a season or two. Sarfaraz is 35, yes he plays spin well and next WC is in India but is he the answer? Something to think about if Riz is not able to make impact in ODIs before the WC. Azam Khan's fitness needs improvement and needs to play some big knocks as he has decent game against spin which is important for middle order position of no 4-5 but, currently not an option. Zeehsan Ashraf, Bismillah and Mohammad Akhlaq prefer top order positions while Haseebullah is still very young and is also a top order batsman.
Rizwan has been outstanding in the other two formats so deserves an extended run. However, I believe he needs to improve his game (SR) against spin by increasing the range of strokes he has to tackle spin. I think this has been the key difference for Rizwan while batting at no 4 in ODIs vs opening in T20Is, he is not that comfortable starting against spin (Its different when you are facing spin with new ball that mainly skids).
Rizwan has been outstanding in the other two formats so deserves an extended run. However, I believe he needs to improve his game (SR) against spin by increasing the range of strokes he has to tackle spin. I think this has been the key difference for Rizwan while batting at no 4 in ODIs vs opening in T20Is, he is not that comfortable starting against spin (Its different when you are facing spin with new ball that mainly skids).
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Rana
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Forget spin, he isn’t comfortable playing anything outside the line of the stumps. His top scoring shots don’t result in 4s when he bats in the middle, so his 10 to 15 ball starts cost the side the momentum far worse in the middle order than they do at the top.
He is the kind of player that is only successful if the team revolves around his style of play.
Titan24
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Rizwan vs spin in ODIs (Last two years as well as whole career). Something that needs improvement to be consistent in the middle order and be able to create more impact. As mentioned in previous post, he needs to expand his range against spin and he will be far more effective.
Rana
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If I had a choice between Rizwan and Fakhar for who bats at 4, it would be Rizwan all day long
Titan24
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Yes he has surely been struggling in the format but, the only thing that can be done is to hope he comes good as there are very limited options.
In 2021 it was the pacers and medium pacers who got him out 5 times in 6 innings and in 2022 he has been out 4 times to spin in 5 innings. His lack of comfort against spin though is the bigger issue I believe as his SR goes down against spin considerably even in T20Is as well which is the format he has done extremely well in. He has the strokes on offside but, premeditation towards leg sometimes makes him miss some scoring opportunities on the offside when the ball is just outside the off stump as you mentioned however, this is something which can be sorted with the mental side of the things. That spin issue would need some work with practice and then application during the match.
The choice shouldn't even be between these 2.
Fakhar should always open in odis. Rizwan should come as the last batter ie. the regular wk position.
Pakistan has to find new batter at 4. Either Haris Sohail comes back or Haider ali, Iftikhar or Kamran Ghulam.
Rana
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You get my point
Rizwan fanatics are producing some kind of dumb theory that Fakhar is better suited to middle order because he can launch against the spinners lol. This confused version of Fakhar needs more deliveries to get going than Rizwan does. Even Imam is more likely to get going with his innings than Fakhar Zaman is
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Continues to drop in ODIs
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shah_1
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Continues to drop...
Sarfraz>>> Rizwan in ODIs
Rana
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More like,
How long is the rope for Fakhar and Imam as openers?
Both need to keep scoring otherwise serial middle order failure Rizwan will be given a chance to score a 50 off 55 balls against some c team attack and cement his place as the ODI opener for the next 2 decades!!
How long is the rope for Fakhar and Imam as openers?
Both need to keep scoring otherwise serial middle order failure Rizwan will be given a chance to score a 50 off 55 balls against some c team attack and cement his place as the ODI opener for the next 2 decades!!
Rana
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The amount of favouritism this guy has benefited from since Mickey Arthur was sacked is unbelievable!
I have never seen a Pakistani player being backed as much as he has!
I have never seen a Pakistani player being backed as much as he has!
Rana
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There was nothing wrong with Sarfaraz the ODI player
Rizwan is just a beneficiary of favouritism!
Rizwan won't do any worse (he will do better) if he plays at the position Sarfaraz did.
Maliq_Mudasir
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Rizwan has been awful in Test and ODI format, that doesn't mean we should call back Sarfaraz.
High time to groom talents like Mohammad Haris and Rohail Nazir.
Titan24
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Sarfaraz was a decent ODI keeper without a doubt however, Rizwan got into the team based upon his Pak A and domestic performances when Sarfaraz was struggling with form alongside being taken the captaincy away from him.
Sarfaraz is now 35 and no point in going back to him in my opinion.
If Rizwan continues to struggle in ODIs then Haris deserves a full series or two.
Titan24
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Rizwan in test cricket has been fine. Issue is we are expecting too much off him as we saw him batting at no 4 vs Srl while keeping for 100+ overs. He should bat at max at 6 in test cricket.
Rohail has not been improving or developing currently and nothing much to show in domestic cricket in recent times. So he isnt in the radar currently I believe. Yes Haris can be given a go if Riz continues the struggles.
Rana
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I’m talking about the pointless, baseless sacking of Sarfaraz for an inferior keeper/batsman in the middle order.
The only way this man can play cricket is if it’s all handed to him on a plate!
Sarfraz was averaging around 20 when dropped so stop with your agenda. Sarfraz was awful. Drop rizwan for haris not for sarfaraz. Who even at his prime was average.
Kroll
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It's been clear for a while that he's not suited at 4 or good enough, yet still persist with it only to change it later. I'm not sure why they keep dragging these things on and on like flaying into a dead horse.
Put a proper batsman in! Very frustrating and utterly shambolic stuff.
Put a proper batsman in! Very frustrating and utterly shambolic stuff.
Rana
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BunnyRabbit
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He should score more and consistently. No.4 demands consistency regardless of who bats at that place. Otherwise he should be relegated to no.5 or no.6. Some competition might push him.
But as a keeper who are the options in domestic seriously? Sarfraz been washed up since 2018 plus has no hitting prowess. Has just one way of playing which is rotating the strike.
Haris is new and has barely played any top level cricket. PSL is not going to make him ready for ODI cricket. Has a decent LA record but needs a lot more furnishing.
Akhlaq is a top order batter and lacks consistency or firepower
Zeeshan Ashraf has decent LA experience but then again another top order batter mainly opener
Azam is there but he seriously needs to get his priorities right and start treating cricket professionally rather than a hobby
Rohail Nazir has the best stats in LA cricket.Is consistent and has good experience of batting in the middle order. He should definitely be the understudy as far as ODI cricket is concerned IMO instead of Haris.
But as a keeper who are the options in domestic seriously? Sarfraz been washed up since 2018 plus has no hitting prowess. Has just one way of playing which is rotating the strike.
Haris is new and has barely played any top level cricket. PSL is not going to make him ready for ODI cricket. Has a decent LA record but needs a lot more furnishing.
Akhlaq is a top order batter and lacks consistency or firepower
Zeeshan Ashraf has decent LA experience but then again another top order batter mainly opener
Azam is there but he seriously needs to get his priorities right and start treating cricket professionally rather than a hobby
Rohail Nazir has the best stats in LA cricket.Is consistent and has good experience of batting in the middle order. He should definitely be the understudy as far as ODI cricket is concerned IMO instead of Haris.
Amjid Javed
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Rizwan is lucky to still be in ODI side at moment as hes been awful.
Sarfaraz would be a backwards step and other fringe replacements are not ready yet for international cricket.
Sarfaraz would be a backwards step and other fringe replacements are not ready yet for international cricket.
Rana
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Isn’t that where he bats for KPK and averages 45 in list A? People are desperate for him to replicate that form in ODI cricket as well.
You can’t blame them considering the other option is rubbish Sarfraz who you never questioned after he failed non stop.
What Rizwan has achieved in tests and t20s Sarfraz can’t even think of it in his wildest dreams. Try again. Rizwan outperforms Sarfraz in pretty much every country in tests and by a big margin too. Let’s not even talk about t20s where Sarfraz used to bat below Hasan Ali lol at times.
Rana
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Sarfaraz has done just fine in Tests with the bat and he’s been a superb leader in T20i
ads101
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Sarfraz paid the price for not pushing himself up the order in LOI. I don't think he'd be as good as Rizwan but if you look at his opening stats in LOI they are very good. He was unsuited down the order, he's not a great hitter. He also should have maintained his fitness, he used to be known for his ability to take the quick single, it was a foundation of his game. Became too much of a specialist captain, when as a captain it's better to lead from the front not down at 7. In some ways its unselfish, but I don't think it was right for the team or himself.
I think he learnt it too late seeing he regained fitness and pushed himself up the order in PSL. He should have been dropped from tests and allowed to just focus on LOI, he overstayed his test place with years of poor form there. Maybe that would have given him the jolt to improve things then instead of being dumped out of all 3 formats at once. But overall I think Sarfraz has been a good player for us.
They're quite similar players in all honesty, though Rizwan is fitter, 5 years younger and a better keeper. So it's an easy choice between them now. I think Rizwan could open in ODIs fairly successfully too like he does in T20s if given the chance though I know you don't agree.
Sarfraz won't make the odi team now and thiers only Haris who can play in the middle order as a keeper.
Rizwan averages 41 in tests Dhoni used to average 38.
The opener who played in the under t20s looked like a good player in tests as a back keeper.
Exactly people are deluded
That’s not the point is it? Why is the response to any criticism of Rizwan a comparison with Sarfraz. Who’s asking for Sarfraz to come back?
The point is why is Rizwan playing at no4? He’s not good enough as a batsman alone to be no4 never mind a keeper/batsman at no4. Only the likes of Sangakarra have batted at no4 and he didn’t keep in every game too. Let’s face it, Rizwan may be one of the better keeper/batsmen for Pakistan but he is certainly not in the league of a sangakarra.
Play rizwan at the normal keeper position of 6 or 7.
We need to get Batsmen in the team. Enough of these makeshift middle order.
Titan24
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Saud is a solid player but, he doesnt have that 5th gear (Based upon what I have seen) in whiteball cricket. That is why he is rarely a sort after commodity in T20s as well. Something that he should work on.
Iftikhar is fine but, I would want someone who is not only can take attack to the opposition when required but, is technically solid as well if he comes in at a time of pressure and tough conditions. I wont mind him but, would prefer someone more solid.
Kamran Ghulam has added an extra impetus to his batting in last year or so and I believe if give a decent run can prove to be a useful player for Pakistan across the formats alongside being ODI no 4.
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Saud Shakeel's job is to hold the innings together in case there is a collapse.
You always need 1-2 players in that mold. Someone who will score a 70-80 off 100 balls and hold up one end while the others score at a higher strike rate.
Infact that has been the problem. In Inzamam and Misbah era, we didnt have any good openers. We relied heavily on Younis, Yousuf, Inzi and Misbah...
Now the situation has flipped, with more top order heavy batsmen.
I don't think rizwan is a # 4 batsman. He is probably well suited for 6 or 7 and good to finish out the games.
Iftikhar and Saud are pure batsmen and have done well in domestic circuit. They should be included on the basis of merit.
Iftikhar definitely - he is very sincere and hardworking guy and has been dominating domestic. He needs to be given a long run. You cannot build a team by chopping and changing. They have a settled top 3 plus rizwan and shaheen and shadab and possibly haris rauf as the core. There needs to be another solid middle order batsman in the mix.
I do think Rizwan will still turn it around in ODI's. Domestically, he has done really well there. He has done well in Tests & superb in T20's. There is no reason to think he can't perform in ODI's.
However, he is miscast as a #4 batsmen. Probably better suited to be #5 where he may not have to worry as much playing a long innings and can try to take some risks instead like in T20's. I think Iftikhar is someone that could make sense as at that position considering his domestic results and having that extra gear to really slog if needed. But Pakistan have pretty limited options there at the moment.
However, he is miscast as a #4 batsmen. Probably better suited to be #5 where he may not have to worry as much playing a long innings and can try to take some risks instead like in T20's. I think Iftikhar is someone that could make sense as at that position considering his domestic results and having that extra gear to really slog if needed. But Pakistan have pretty limited options there at the moment.
Rana
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This right here is the issue I keep referring to.
Guys like Imam who average 51 and have 9 ODI hundreds in 53 innings (phenomenal record) will have to make way for a serial failure like Rizwan because that’s what his fans want!
I keep reiterating. Rizwan fans are never thinking about the best interests of Pakistan rather they care about the best interests of Rizwan only!
Kroll
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Pakistan needs to start thinking like a proper cricket playing nation, not this midget mentality of patchworking players into unnatural positions which clearly this Rizwan experiment is.
How can you drop Imaam based upon what he has done in odis?
We already have Imaam and to some extend Babar we do not require about slow player batting at 4.Iftikhar can bat at 4 as he can attack and has the power game.
I personally would not drop Imaam so that Rizwan opens.
It’s been a long time since that happened for over a decade the team has been mediocre in tests and ODIs with no real good performance in T20 world cups where it matters aswell.
The opinion of the selectors coaches and captains in regards to player selection and strategy has been wrong consistently on occasions players who have the potential to be the best in any format haven’t even been selected.
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Good innings by Rizwan although on the slower side 69* (82) - bit of a struggle?
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msb314
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Need to play Saud or Abdullah at 4 - Rizwan should play at 5
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