[VIDEOS] Justice for Sahibzada Farhan: what did he do wrong?

[khyberlion]

1. If he is struggling domestically, then those performing even less than him should be struggling even more no?
2. How do you know where you need to improve internationally unless you are thrown in the fire and get exposed? It’s the reality check they need.
3. All players have weaknesses. Babar’s struggle against spin, Rizwan is a leg side back and so on. You cannot single out someone let alone a debutant.

1. This is not how it works just because your performances is better than someone others doesn't mean you are better than them.
2. He should have improved by now against pace it is was very evident in domestics. You as a player regardless of what level you play at you your weaknesses.
3. Off course all players have weakness but when it's major like his one that's where the problem is. His an opening batsmen who can't play pace and no this is not his debut. He made his debut few years ago against Australia in UAE and even then he was poor against pace.

 

[khyberlion]

He's maybe more of a Test/ODI player but he should be persisted with

Abdullah, saim,imam,fakhar are all ahead of him in odis. In tests he's probably behind Saim, Abdullah, huraira and imam too.

 

[emranabbas]

1. This is not how it works just because your performances is better than someone others doesn't mean you are better than them.

This first part is to justify Rizwan and Babar's poor performance. how the hell a player can be good if he doesn't perform lol
what an Absurd logic.

2. He should have improved by now against pace it is was very evident in domestics. You as a player regardless of what level you play at you your weaknesses.

the guy just hit 2 100's in an FC game and has 3 50's all in his last 10 domestic games

3. Off course all players have weakness but when it's major like his one that's where the problem is. His an opening batsmen who can't play pace and no this is not his debut. He made his debut few years ago against Australia in UAE and even then he was poor against pace.

Rizwan on his debut series averaged 11 and was in less the 20's in his first year.

 

[Farabi]

1. This is not how it works just because your performances is better than someone others doesn't mean you are better than them.
2. He should have improved by now against pace it is was very evident in domestics. You as a player regardless of what level you play at you your weaknesses.
3. Off course all players have weakness but when it's major like his one that's where the problem is. His an opening batsmen who can't play pace and no this is not his debut. He made his debut few years ago against Australia in UAE and even then he was poor against pace.

1. If season upon season, one players is scoring more runs at a better average than another player on the same role, how are they not better? And somehow someone has a crystal ball where they can see that the lesser performer will somehow make the leap to international level better…. This is madness and textbook liking/disliking.
2. The lad has 4600 runs an averages of 45 as a FC opener. That says more about his technique against pace than any eye tests by Pakpassioners. Given enough time, his talent will show. Playing pace in Australia is not the same as playing pace in Asia. Night and day difference. Nearly all of Pakistani batters fail/failed in Aus. It tells you nothing.
3. Again, it’s not a weakness. Random T20s here and there is not how you induct players. Ideally he should be introduced in all formats and specially ODIs and Tests where his numbers are very impressive.

 

[Farabi]

This first part is to justify Rizwan and Babar's poor performance. how the hell a player can be good if he doesn't perform lol
what an Absurd logic.




the guy just hit 2 100's in an FC game and has 3 50's all in his last 10 domestic games




Rizwan on his debut series averaged 11 and was in less the 20's in his first year.

On your third point, there is this mad obsession to compare a debutant/newly inducted players with established players.
The first 5-10 games should be completely ignored.

 

[emranabbas]

On your third point, there is this mad obsession to compare a debutant/newly inducted players with established players.
The first 5-10 games should be completely ignored.

My point is that during Rizwan's first 8 games, he struggled, but the team persisted and gave him a proper run. In the same way, everyone deserves a fair opportunity, and it's unfair to dismiss someone after just one series.

 

[khyberlion]

This first part is to justify Rizwan and Babar's poor performance. how the hell a player can be good if he doesn't perform lol
what an Absurd logic.




the guy just hit 2 100's in an FC game and has 3 50's all in his last 10 domestic games




Rizwan on his debut series averaged 11 and was in less the 20's in his first year.

Babar and Rizwan should be dropped from t20s, again you are showing your obsession with those 2.

So who does he come in for tests? Abdullah hasn't had a good time and should be dropped but next in line is Huraira. If Farhan is given a go and he inevitably fails in SA. You will be using the same excuse.

Again Rizwan didn't struggle against pace like Farhan has even at domestic level.

 

[Farabi]

My point is that during Rizwan's first 8 games, he struggled, but the team persisted and gave him a proper run. In the same way, everyone deserves a fair opportunity, and it's unfair to dismiss someone after just one series.

Yes I know. I am building on that. Most established players struggled in their initial games. Players doing well on debut series is the exception.

 

[Farabi]

Babar and Rizwan should be dropped from t20s, again you are showing your obsession with those 2.

So who does he come in for tests? Abdullah hasn't had a good time and should be dropped but next in line is Huraira. If Farhan is given a go and he inevitably fails in SA. You will be using the same excuse.

Again Rizwan didn't struggle against pace like Farhan has even at domestic level.

What is Farhan’s average and strike rate vs pace in List A and FC? What is the benchmark? What is Hurraira’s? How did you reach this conclusion?

How was Hurraira dismissed thrice in a row in champions trophy.

 

[khyberlion]

1. If season upon season, one players is scoring more runs at a better average than another player on the same role, how are they not better? And somehow someone has a crystal ball where they can see that the lesser performer will somehow make the leap to international level better…. This is madness and textbook liking/disliking.
2. The lad has 4600 runs an averages of 45 as a FC opener. That says more about his technique against pace than any eye tests by Pakpassioners. Given enough time, his talent will show. Playing pace in Australia is not the same as playing pace in Asia. Night and day difference. Nearly all of Pakistani batters fail/failed in Aus. It tells you nothing.
3. Again, it’s not a weakness. Random T20s here and there is not how you induct players. Ideally he should be introduced in all formats and specially ODIs and Tests where his numbers are very impressive.

There is something called domestic bullies which he has proven to be whenever given a chance. I am by no mens against him having a go. I am just pointing out his flaws which he clearly hasn't worked on since coming on to the domestic circuit and will continue to struggle. Age is also not of his side for him to go back and work on.

Why are you ignoring the fact he has struggled against pace at domestic level same is the case with Kamran Ghulam? Maybe you haven't seen him as much but I have seen quite a bit of him. Playing pace at international level is different than playing our domestic bowlers where musa Khan is taking truck loads of wickets.

 

[khyberlion]

My point is that during Rizwan's first 8 games, he struggled, but the team persisted and gave him a proper run. In the same way, everyone deserves a fair opportunity, and it's unfair to dismiss someone after just one series.

Rizwan was dropped after struggling initially. He only came back when we eventually got rid of dead weight sarfraz.

 

[emranabbas]

Yes I know. I am building on that. Most established players struggled in their initial games. Players doing well on debut series is the exception.

honestly think any new debutant should be given a decent run over a few series before being written off. It takes time to adjust and show what they’re capable of. I’m not one of those people who backs a player just to say, “Hey, I spotted this talent.” For me, as long as the player is performing well and helping Pakistan win games, that’s all that really matters. It’s not about proving a point; it’s about giving players the chance to succeed and benefit the team.

 

[khyberlion]

What is Farhan’s average and strike rate vs pace in List A and FC? What is the benchmark? What is Hurraira’s? How did you reach this conclusion?
How was Hurraira dismissed thrice in a row in champions trophy.

I don't have those stats and I am not sure if they are even available. Coming to Huraira I have pointed out his struggles against pace and already stated he will struggle at international level of he opens. He clearly next in line based on being selected as a backup opener.

 

[Farabi]

There is something called domestic bullies which he has proven to be whenever given a chance. I am by no mens against him having a go. I am just pointing out his flaws which he clearly hasn't worked on since coming on to the domestic circuit and will continue to struggle. Age is also not of his side for him to go back and work on.

Why are you ignoring the fact he has struggled against pace at domestic level same is the case with Kamran Ghulam? Maybe you haven't seen him as much but I have seen quite a bit of him. Playing pace at international level is different than playing our domestic bowlers where musa Khan is taking truck loads of wickets.

Let me quantify this so maybe it’s easier to understand.

4 out of 10 domestic bullies will success internationally.

2 out of 10 pure eye tests will succeed internationally.

Most will fail internationally, but domestic Bullies have at least twice as much chance to succeed.

I am not ignoring anything. I’d need to see data.

 

[Farabi]

I don't have those stats and I am not sure if they are even available. Coming to Huraira I have pointed out his struggles against pace and already stated he will struggle at international level of he opens. He clearly next in line based on being selected as a backup opener.

Yes, so without data, it’s impossible to reach such a sweeping conclusion.
A FC opener with 4600 runs at an average of 45. These are very good stats for an opener in 4-day and last I checked it’s pacers who usually open the attack.

 

[khyberlion]

Let me quantify this so maybe it’s easier to understand.

4 out of 10 domestic bullies will success internationally.

2 out of 10 pure eye tests will succeed internationally.

Most will fail internationally, but domestic Bullies have at least twice as much chance to succeed.

I am not ignoring anything. I’d need to see data.

I don't have the data and I don't think we have one for domestic tbh. His struggles against pace is what I have seen and it's been clearly evident so far in his short career. You also don't have data for your claim of the domestic bullies and pure eye test.

 

[khyberlion]

Yes, so without data, it’s impossible to reach such a sweeping conclusion.
A FC opener with 4600 runs at an average of 45. These are very good stats for an opener in 4-day and last I checked it’s pacers who usually open the attack.

Huraira has even better stats and he struggles against pace which you acknowledged. So why are you having hard time with Farhan? Maybe you should ask why did Pakistan select the like of Imran butt, saim Ayub, Abdullah shafique, Shan massood, imam abid Ali with far worse stats than farhan?

 

[emranabbas]

honestly think any new debutant should be given a decent run over a few series before being written off. It takes time to adjust and show what they’re capable of. I’m not one of those people who backs a player just to say, “Hey, I spotted this talent.” For me, as long as the player is performing well and helping Pakistan win games, that’s all that really matters. It’s not about proving a point; it’s about giving players the chance to succeed and benefit the team.

@Farabi

I also want to emphasize that our domestic circuit is already in a poor state, which makes it even more important not to write off players too quickly. If we keep saying, "We have Rizwan and Babar," and don’t focus on building bench strength or developing new talent for the future, Pakistan cricket will be at serious risk. We can't rely on just a few players forever. Developing a strong pipeline of cricketers is essential for the long-term success of the team. Without that, we won't have the depth needed to stay competitive, and the future of Pakistan cricket could be in jeopardy.

 

[Farabi]

I don't have the data and I don't think we have one for domestic tbh. His struggles against pace is what I have seen and it's been clearly evident so far in his short career. You also don't have data for your claim of the domestic bullies and pure eye test.

I challenge you. Go and look at 10 legends of cricket and look for:

1. What was their performance in domestic before their debut.
2. What was their perf in first 30-40 games.
3. What was their perf after that.

You will see clear patterns.
If you’re lazy to do that, just click on any 10 players you love, and compare their ODIs and List A performance, if they’ve played at least 30 ODIs. See what you find.

 

[Farabi]

Huraira has even better stats and he struggles against pace which you acknowledged. So why are you having hard time with Farhan? Maybe you should ask why did Pakistan select the like of Imran butt, saim Ayub, Abdullah shafique, Shan massood, imam abid Ali with far worse stats than farhan?

1. Hurraira has impressive stats but Farhan has bigger and more well rounded body of work.
2. This is exactly why I am against liking and disliking. Imran Butt, Ayub, Abdullah, Shan, and Imam were someone’s liking as well right? This is exactly why I am against liking disliking. Abid Ali was a domestic stalwart and won’t group him here.

 

[khyberlion]

I challenge you. Go and look at 10 legends of cricket and look for:

1. What was their performance in domestic before their debut.
2. What was their perf in first 30-40 games.
3. What was their perf after that.

You will see clear patterns.
If you’re lazy to do that, just click on any 10 players you love, and compare their ODIs and List A performance, if they’ve played at least 30 ODIs. See what you find.

You are completely missing the point. I am talking about his struggles against pace and you are talking about legends. I can challenge you too on finding 10 legends who couldn't play pace above waist height.

 

[khyberlion]

1. Hurraira has impressive stats but Farhan has bigger and more well rounded body of work.
2. This is exactly why I am against liking and disliking. Imran Butt, Ayub, Abdullah, Shan, and Imam were someone’s liking as well right? This is exactly why I am against liking disliking. Abid Ali was a domestic stalwart and won’t group him here.

You are not answering the question. Question wasn't who has impressive stats. It's about playing pace which you agreed for huraira but you are not answering for Farhan.

 

[Farabi]

@Farabi

I also want to emphasize that our domestic circuit is already in a poor state, which makes it even more important not to write off players too quickly. If we keep saying, "We have Rizwan and Babar," and don’t focus on building bench strength or developing new talent for the future, Pakistan cricket will be at serious risk. We can't rely on just a few players forever. Developing a strong pipeline of cricketers is essential for the long-term success of the team. Without that, we won't have the depth needed to stay competitive, and the future of Pakistan cricket could be in jeopardy.

Yup. 100%. Pakistani domestic system is OK. It’s not as bad as many people make it sound like. We just don’t respect domestic performers.
That Pakistani domestic system is of lower standard than international, but as are county and Sheffield shield. Not all of their players succeed internationally nor do their systems prepare their batters for spinning conditions (as evident in recent series against England).
This “domestic is not reliable so we can’t use data” is used as a weapon and excuse to select their personal favorites. That’s our biggest undoing.

 

[Farabi]

You are not answering the question. Question wasn't who has impressive stats. It's about playing pace which you agreed for huraira but you are not answering for Farhan.

I didn’t deliberately ignored your question. I wasn’t clear that’s what you’re wanting to know.
My view is that Pakistani domestic system, on average, produces batters who are average against pace and slightly better against spin. This applies to almost all the Pakistani batters with some rare exceptions. Rizwan is also OK against pace. His game on the offside against pace is non existent.
The best Pakistani batter against express pace is Fakhar, and against medium pace is Babar. Other than that all I can see is mediocrity. But that shouldn’t make us lose hope and not allow batters to develop and learn. There are many players like Hafeez, Azhar Ali, who were terrible against pace but improved their game over time. What we want to see is work ethic and best signal of work ethic is CONSISTENT domestic performance

 

[khyberlion]

I didn’t deliberately ignored your question. I wasn’t clear that’s what you’re wanting to know.
My view is that Pakistani domestic system, on average, produces batters who are average against pace and slightly better against spin. This applies to almost all the Pakistani batters with some rare exceptions. Rizwan is also OK against pace. His game on the offside against pace is non existent.
The best Pakistani batter against express pace is Fakhar, and against medium pace is Babar. Other than that all I can see is mediocrity. But that shouldn’t make us lose hope and not allow batters to develop and learn. There are many players like Hafeez, Azhar Ali, who were terrible against pace but improved their game over time. What we want to see is work ethic and best
signal of work ethic is CONSISTENT domestic performance

The players who you have highlighted are and were far better against pace than farhan is and even technically they are and were better than farhan.

 

[Farabi]

The players who you have highlighted are and were far better against pace than farhan is and even technically they are and were better than farhan.

That’s based on your subjective assessment right?

I am not sure if you were around but the same was said about Hafeez, Younus Khan, and Azhar Ali. That their technique is bad against pace but they had good/great careers anyway.

Imran Khan dropped Saeed Anwar after his debut series because “his technique wasn’t cut for international cricket”.

I think what I am saying is that there is no perfect way to judge “technique”. Steve Smith became the most prolific batter with what many initially thought was a tailender technique.

The only reliable way to signal technique is consistent domestic performance. The rest is fluff.

 

[khyberlion]

That’s based on your subjective assessment right?

I am not sure if you were around but the same was said about Hafeez, Younus Khan, and Azhar Ali. That their technique is bad against pace but they had good/great careers anyway.

Imran Khan dropped Saeed Anwar after his debut series because “his technique wasn’t cut for international cricket”.

I think what I am saying is that there is no perfect way to judge “technique”. Steve Smith became the most prolific batter with what many initially thought was a tailender technique.

The only reliable way to signal technique is consistent domestic performance. The rest is fluff.

I have watched all those guys bat bar saeed anwar and those guys were not as bad against pace as Farhan. This is the point I am making.

 

[Farabi]

I have watched all those guys bat bar saeed anwar and those guys were not as bad against pace as Farhan. This is the point I am making.

Your perception of those players is influenced by their peak and overall career achievements.
When they were starting out, similar critiques were made about their technique, but as their careers progressed, those concerns proved unfounded.

 

[khyberlion]

Your perception of those players is influenced by their peak and overall career achievements.
When they were starting out, similar critiques were made about their technique, but as their careers progressed, those concerns proved unfounded.

And you based this on what? You are just assuming things. Those guys were pretty much established player at the age of 29 Farhan is yet to be selected for tests let alone make his debut.

 

[Farabi]

Pakistanis have made a business out of critiquing techniques. Most of these critics haven’t held a bat professionally.
What looks pleasing to the eye isnt necessarily better.
I remember Imran Nazir whose technique was seen as great by fans and experts alike. Phenomenal player of pace and bounce no doubt. Yet an abject failure overall and didn’t amount to anything.
Younus Khan, the domestic stalwart was often the target of such critiques that his technique is bad, yet has gone down as a legend.

 

[Farabi]

And you based this on what? You are just assuming things. Those guys were pretty much established player at the age of 29 Farhan is yet to be selected for tests let alone make his debut.

Were you watching cricket closely when these players debuted?

 

[sweep_shot]

Farhan should get a few more games at least. Chopping and changing too frequently is not a good strategy.

 

[Kianig89]

Justice for Sahibzada! entered the villain Salman Butt and new plot in the drama

 

[BouncerGuy]

Farhan is not an international material. He might do an ok job in Pakistan only but his away tours are gonna be horrible.

let's just keep him for home series only.