[VIDEOS] Shan Masood's average watch - when will he improve his stats?

[MenInG]

1000 runs for Shan as well - now needs to get a big hundred. Get him the confidence he needs to succeed.

 

[GreenKhan]

Averaged 38 and 39 in SA and Aus respectively with high score of 68 on both tours combined. That is not good enough for test cricket.

As I said earlier it’s decent and it’s not reasonable to drop someone on the basis of that . We would be chopping and changing every series if we began dropping Batman for averaging nearly 40 each series .

I’m not a Shan fan , I do like Sami Aslam but I don’t see the logic in dropping him yet.

 

[QalandarFan]

As I said earlier it’s decent and it’s not reasonable to drop someone on the basis of that . We would be chopping and changing every series if we began dropping Batman for averaging nearly 40 each series .

I’m not a Shan fan , I do like Sami Aslam but I don’t see the logic in dropping him yet.

Not saying he needs to be dropped just yet but if that continues he obviously needs to be dropped you can't make a career out of averaging in the mid-high 30s and making the occasional 50, in Test Cricket.

 

[Boi]

Like it or not he’s better than the other sorry alternative, Imam. They’ve both got the same deficiencies against the moving ball but atleast Shan is better against the shorter ball and we don’t have to bear any overacting from him in the field.

In an ideal world the likes of Imran, Sami, Zeeshan should be getting chances but we’re far far away from that right now.

 

[Abdullah]

Never said Shafiq is good either. Been calling for him to be dropped for years. Shafiq is like the Afridi of our test squad has played years and continues to play because of that one innings he produces every series or every other series. It's pathetic how he's still in the squad.

Shan is averaging 40 on his return to the side. Given conditions played in , I don't see how that is not good enough for a Pakistani opener.

No Pakistani opener is going to average a hundred every 3 4 games that I can see right now. ( Not even Abid Ali!)

 

[Square Drive]

Like it or not he’s better than the other sorry alternative, Imam. They’ve both got the same deficiencies against the moving ball but atleast Shan is better against the shorter ball and we don’t have to bear any overacting from him in the field.

In an ideal world the likes of Imran, Sami, Zeeshan should be getting chances but we’re far far away from that right now.

Completely agree.

Plus I'm still hopeful that he can be our interim captain until Babar is ready. 30 is a pretty good age to take over the reigns.

Obviously, he would have to have some performances to show for in order for that to happen.

 

[Square Drive]

That Rawalpindi failure means zero. That had no impact and he had nothing to play for.

Got a beauty in the 1st innings of this Test too. Obviously, you can only make excuses for so long and have to produce at some point. But this innings gives me hope that his returns in the SA and AUS tour can continue but with greater consistency and conversion.

 

[Abdullah]

Test batting average of 27 in 17 matches (34 innings) in modern era and still he has to keep playing ?

Why do people do this. He is a different player to Shan mark 1. So only look at it since his comeback.
People did that unnecessarily to Hafeez as well and always held what he did upto 2010 against him even upto 2015!!

He's averaging 39 coming into this game in Aus and SA and sees the new ball out 9 times out of 10. ( Since his comeback)
That for a Pak opener is very good and deserves some perseverance -a few more tests at least. ( Not just 2 innings)

 

[MenInG]

Well done to Shan Masood on his 2nd hundred!

 

[MenInG]

 

[Junaids]

Comparative records since Shan Masood’s comeback:

Shan Masood
7 Tests, 1 hundred, 3 fifties, 493 runs
AVERAGE 41.08

Azhar Ali
7 Tests, 0 hundreds, 0 fifties, 157 runs
AVERAGE 13.08

Any comments? [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] perhaps?

 

[Hawkeye]

Comparative records since Shan Masood’s comeback:

Shan Masood
7 Tests, 1 hundred, 3 fifties, 493 runs
AVERAGE 41.08

Azhar Ali
7 Tests, 0 hundreds, 0 fifties, 157 runs
AVERAGE 13.08

Any comments? [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] perhaps?

Why do you keep comparing him to Azhar who is at his worst right now? Everyone knows he's not scoring.

 

[angrypathan]

Why do you keep comparing him to Azhar who is at his worst right now? Everyone knows he's not scoring.

Have a look through your posting history. You've been harping on about how poor Shan Masood is and trying to deflect and redirect criticism from Azhar to Shan.

 

[saeed5646]

Comparative records since Shan Masood’s comeback:

Shan Masood
7 Tests, 1 hundred, 3 fifties, 493 runs
AVERAGE 41.08

Azhar Ali
7 Tests, 0 hundreds, 0 fifties, 157 runs
AVERAGE 13.08

Any comments? [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] perhaps?

Considering shan had to play 2 tougher tour of sa and aus this is not bad record

 

[ar2020]

Abba's connections might get you into the team, but it won't help you score runs. Another parchee player, another failure. When will Pakistan learn that a merit selection will always outperform a parchee.

It's time to call it a day on him. He's already 30 and won't go on a Brandmanisque run hence it's time to bring in Sami Aslam and give him a long run.

I am surprised to seee he has so many fans here...One fluke series in africa and he is the bradman. This is why Pakistan is racing to bottom. Masood like batsman won't find place in PNG team on merit.

Having an influential father is enough to merit a place in playing 11. His name was under consideration to be Test Captain.

Im gonna say it again. Better to play Imam over him. Horse is better than Donkey.

Yet we discover another opener just like Hafeez who apparently seems technically correct but is good for only scores of 20s, 30s and occasional 50s
His FC average is below 35 so expecting him to score daddy hundreds is unreasonable

When will the torture end?

We need to rope in Sami Aslam in our test team who definitely has the ability to play long innings.

Shan deserves to be dropped, imam is just as rubbish and shouldnt be in squad either. Pakistan need to look else where for an opening partner for Abid.

He needs to be dropped

He should blame himself for this, couldn't convert those starts into something useful since SA tour.

Gotta be the dumbest post of the week. This guy has been playing since 2013. He is a TTF simple as that.

So when other teams drop non performers they are playing musical chairs. Look at how much rotation Aus and Eng have done in their test openers because they dont accept mediocrity and they rarely give any batsman averaging 25 after 10 matches an extended run let alone playing 19 matches with an average of 25.

If Shan scores a century in the 3nd innings good enough otherwise he needs to go and play domestic while other deserving guy is given a chance in the hope that atleast he averages 35+ after 10-15 matches as anything less than that by an opener is an extra burden which Pak team cant afford to carry on and on.

A big piece of egg clobbered over y'all faces.

 

[ar2020]

Good batsman. You don't just keep dropping players lol. These posters are useless. We are not playing musical chairs. Keep playing Masood. Give him an extended run till end of 2020 or 2021.

I'll say it again. Thank goodness y'all ain't the selector. Sami crap turtle Aslam? Gotta be kidding me.

 

[Abdullah719]

This year in 6 first innings, he has made 97 runs @ 16.
In 5 second innings (including current), he has 228 runs @ 57 including 2 fifties.

Update: 343 runs in 5 second innings @ 68.6.

 

[Abid Z]

Some comments on here are really cringe worthy. Ranging from “he’s a safarish player” “drop him now”” useless player etc etc.

Players need time to develop. Appreciate the fact that test cricket is hard and a player needs a few innings to tweak their technique. You just can’t keep dropping players after a few low scores otherwise you’ll have a revolving door scenario. Shan is doing ok for now. I know it’s become an easy pitch and Sri Lanka are bowling some pies but nevertheless a century is a century. Looks like our bench is getting deeper which is heartening.

 

[Junaids]

With this dismissal, Shan Masood’s record in the 12 months and 7 Tests since his comeback last year to an average of 40.30.

Azhar Ali needs to score 367 in this current innings to catch up with Shan Masood’s record over this last year.

 

[Junaids]

Shan Masood year by year averages:

2019: 40.00
2018: 42.00
2017: 22.16
2016: 17.75
2015: 32.66
2014: 17.25
2013: 24.00

 

[Globama]

He did get a ton but people need to calm down. He is playing at home against a really weak bowling attack on a pitch that is only getting easier to bat on. Not a big achievement. Wouldn't get a spot in any major Test side in the world.

 

[world cup captain]

A big piece of egg clobbered over y'all faces.

How about you read my other 20 posts on Masood? I've thoroughly backed him but do not wish to waste too much time with players over 30. I'm happy that he's performed and goes on to get many more.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Good innings by him today under pressure , ulbeit under good batting conditions and against not so good attack.

 

[Titan24]

A big piece of egg clobbered over y'all faces.

Due to his 2nd century in 19th test match as an opener? He averaged 25 of 18 tests and 1 innings of his, so He saved his own career here. If you read the last paragraph of the post of mine you have quoted you would have known the emphasis I put in on his performance in the second innings here, he needed this for his test career to continue and this came just at the right time for him. I still hold the opinion though that he got more oppurtunities than many openers in history of Pak cricket.

Happy for him and I hope Pak wins the match from here.

 

[GreenKhan]

How about you read my other 20 posts on Masood? I've thoroughly backed him but do not wish to waste too much time with players over 30. I'm happy that he's performed and goes on to get many more.

Is 30 the new 40? What’s this obsession with age . If one is 30 they have 6/7 years left in them if they continue performing.

If teams stopped giving people chances just because they are 30 then their will be very few players who would ever have have “careers” who have turned out to be good or greats of the cane .

Tunnel vision thinking

 

[Mainul]

Another Asad. When about to get dropped due to strings of poor performances, score some runs and remains in the team.

 

[Titan24]

Some comments on here are really cringe worthy. Ranging from “he’s a safarish player” “drop him now”” useless player etc etc.

Players need time to develop. Appreciate the fact that test cricket is hard and a player needs a few innings to tweak their technique. You just can’t keep dropping players after a few low scores otherwise you’ll have a revolving door scenario. Shan is doing ok for now. I know it’s become an easy pitch and Sri Lanka are bowling some pies but nevertheless a century is a century. Looks like our bench is getting deeper which is heartening.

Agreed that players need time to develop but there is a fine line between persisting with failiures and developing a player. One can argue that why wasnt Sami Aslam developed as he averaged more than Shan in tests when he was dropped and still does, why wasnt Fawad Alam given 19 matches in tests when he scored century in Srl on his debut and that too as an opener and averaged 41 when his test career was paused for almost a decade. What about Umer Akmal who averaged 35 at the age or 21 in tests and was dropped?

I dont like to target players as parchi etc. but Masood did get much more oppurtunities in tests than the players we have dropped in the last 2 decades.

 

[Titan24]

Masood has a List A average of around 50, he needs to bring in bit more shots after settling in the longer format as well. Its difficult to survive for a lot of balls regularly and score a century which he has done once unless you have an extraordinary technique which Shan doesnt. He has a decent technique but he will be better of targeting to make most out of his stay at the crease. As clearly his regular approach in test cricket havent worked from him in 18 out of 19 matches.

So played a bit more shots this time around after getting set and scored 135 in 198 balls. Something for him to note that once set he needs to be a bit more proactive.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Much needed 100, looked very scratchy but in end it will boost his confidence and the teams.

 

[topspin]

A big piece of egg clobbered over y'all faces.

I'll say it again. Thank goodness y'all ain't the selector. Sami crap turtle Aslam? Gotta be kidding me.

Kudos to you, [MENTION=5495]Boi[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] for backing him resolutely like I was when the knives were out for him by some of our expert armchair critics.

 

[topspin]

Shan Masood year by year averages:

2019: 40.00
2018: 42.00
2017: 22.16
2016: 17.75
2015: 32.66
2014: 17.25
2013: 24.00

This is exactly why I’ve always maintained that his distant past performances (2013-2017) have no relevance to current affairs.

 

[topspin]

Just woken up to see Shan Masood score his second ton of his test career. I can’t say I’m surprised because I knew he was due a big one.

Whilst I appreciate there are about dozen of his critics who called for him to be dropped, [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] [MENTION=142432]Titan24[/MENTION] [MENTION=148759]HappyWarsFan[/MENTION] are the ones in particular who deserve this humiliation as they were the most vocal in their opposition of his selection in the test side and not to forget according to Hawkeye, Shan Masood isn’t even good enough to make the Afghanistan team

 

[Titan24]

Just woken up to see Shan Masood score his second ton of his test career. I can’t say I’m surprised because I knew he was due a big one.

Whilst I appreciate there are about dozen of his critics who called for him to be dropped, [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] [MENTION=142432]Titan24[/MENTION] [MENTION=148759]HappyWarsFan[/MENTION] are the ones in particular who deserve this humiliation as they were the most vocal in their opposition of his selection in the test side and not to forget according to Hawkeye, Shan Masood isn’t even good enough to make the Afghanistan team

For calling out an opener with 1 century in 18 tests with average in mid 20s? It has saved his career as otherwise he wouldnt have been in the next test squad probably. By the way whatabout Misbah being the coach and Pak not loosing? You didnt give Misbah even 19 tests as coach so are you gonna be humiliated if Pak doesnt loose and we are playing that childish game?

 

[A-1]

I have seen this guy bat live several times, he looks completely lost even when he is set. There is no confidence whatsoever and he always looks out of his comfort zone. You almost feel he will get out any time now. Only if he can overcome his fears and bat with authority, you almost feel for this guy because he is genuinely a hardworker.

 

[pratiktc]

Give the devil his due he has earned selectorial rope for a couple of home series atleast after decent away performance and today's century

 

[world cup captain]

Is 30 the new 40? What’s this obsession with age . If one is 30 they have 6/7 years left in them if they continue performing.

If teams stopped giving people chances just because they are 30 then their will be very few players who would ever have have “careers” who have turned out to be good or greats of the cane .

Tunnel vision thinking

With the older generation of Pakistani players, you can safely add another 2-3 years to their official age. Just have a look at Azhar, the man turned 33 and completely lost his game or Yasir who is in the same boat.

I'm not opposed to having older players, but they need to be performing for the team to invest any time into them. It's not worth investing in a plyer for only a season or two unless it's for a WC.

 

[Manager101]

Why do people do this. He is a different player to Shan mark 1. So only look at it since his comeback.
People did that unnecessarily to Hafeez as well and always held what he did upto 2010 against him even upto 2015!!

He's averaging 39 coming into this game in Aus and SA and sees the new ball out 9 times out of 10. ( Since his comeback)
That for a Pak opener is very good and deserves some perseverance -a few more tests at least. ( Not just 2 innings)

Only problem is the long rope given to him unlike many equally skilled batsmen before him who got few tests and were dropped without testing further. I hope he keeps his form up and doesn't become another Asad Shafiq.

 

[topspin]

With the older generation of Pakistani players, you can safely add another 2-3 years to their official age. Just have a look at Azhar, the man turned 33 and completely lost his game or Yasir who is in the same boat.

I'm not opposed to having older players, but they need to be performing for the team to invest any time into them. It's not worth investing in a plyer for only a season or two unless it's for a WC.

The difference with Shan Masood is he was born and raised in Kuwait. He was also schooled there as well, which suggests his age on his Birth Certificate is probably genuine.

 

[Slog]

With the older generation of Pakistani players, you can safely add another 2-3 years to their official age. Just have a look at Azhar, the man turned 33 and completely lost his game or Yasir who is in the same boat.

I'm not opposed to having older players, but they need to be performing for the team to invest any time into them. It's not worth investing in a plyer for only a season or two unless it's for a WC.

Shan is genuinely 30 though.

Was few years older to me in high school (different school).

 

[Saj]

Extended his international career today for the time being.

 

[coy0607]

His 2nd century in 37 innings - well played today.

The problem remains consistency, most mediocre batsmen can rustle up a century every 10-15 innings, Shan has got to be more consistent

 

[topspin]

For calling out an opener with 1 century in 18 tests with average in mid 20s? It has saved his career as otherwise he wouldnt have been in the next test squad probably. By the way whatabout Misbah being the coach and Pak not loosing? You didnt give Misbah even 19 tests as coach so are you gonna be humiliated if Pak doesnt loose and we are playing that childish game?

I tell you the issue I have with you calling out Shan's average and lack of tons. Earlier this week you rated Hafeez for finishing his test career with 10 x tons and an average of 37-38. Let me ask you, do you know what Hafeez was averaging in tests before he became a regular for the national side? If you know the answer you'll find this figure corresponds to around 25-30, when he was deprived of easy runs in the UAE. Shan Masood on the other hand has come back and proved he can maintain a 38+ average in each of the following since his come back to the test side: South Africa, Australia and now Pakistan. Early days, but that is more commendable than what the UAE bully has accomplished, as he has performed on different playing surfaces/conditions.

I still maintain that if Pakistan win this test (which they most likely will), it will be a curse in disguise for the fans because the PCB will somehow think Misbah is a superior coach to Mickey, so as a result he will get an extended run to cause more harm to Pakistan cricket.

I don't need to give Misbah 19 tests because if we think logically he is a failed tactician, as evident during his playing days as captain of the national side. Waqar was also a failed tactician and no one can deny he was beyond awful during his two stints as Head Coach, which is why I'm also not happy with his presence in the team either, even though he's just a specialist coach in the bowling department.

 

[Titan24]

Shan has scored his 2nd 100 in 37 innings and some posters are tagging others like he has broken world record of centuries. Our fans are too early to make someone into a hero and make them into a villain as fast unless there is ego involved which some of the posters clearly have here.

Shan played well and I am happy for him but he was playing on much extended chance than many get. Which can be proven by the fact that many 30+ average players couldnt get 19 tests let alone Shan who was averaging in mid 20s. Sami Aslam, Umar Akmal, Fawad Alam etc were discarded with better averages much earlier.

Shan has to much more than what he has done to justify extended run he has got. Needs to carry on from here consistently.

 

[Titan24]

I tell you the issue I have with you calling out Shan's average and lack of tons. Earlier this week you rated Hafeez for finishing his test career with 10 x tons and an average of 37-38. Let me ask you, do you know what Hafeez was averaging in tests before he became a regular for the national side? If you know the answer you'll find this figure corresponds to around 25-30, when he was deprived of easy runs in the UAE. Shan Masood on the other hand has come back and proved he can maintain a 38+ average in each of the following since his come back to the test side: South Africa, Australia and now Pakistan. Early days, but that is more commendable than what the UAE bully has accomplished, as he has performed on different playing surfaces/conditions.

I still maintain that if Pakistan win this test (which they most likely will), it will be a curse in disguise for the fans because the PCB will somehow think Misbah is a superior coach to Mickey, so as a result he will get an extended run to cause more harm to Pakistan cricket.

I don't need to give Misbah 19 tests because if we think logically he is a failed tactician, as evident during his playing days as captain of the national side. Waqar was also a failed tactician and no one can deny he was beyond awful during his two stints as Head Coach, which is why I'm also not happy with his presence in the team either, even though he's just a specialist coach in the bowling department.

Factually incorrect and contradicting on number of grounds.

Firstly Hafeez was averaging around 45 in his first 7 tests with 2 100s and 3 50s and not to forget he provided a decent bowling option too and none of these matches were in UAE.

Secondly you are implying that UAE is a batting heaven when Shan averages 20 in 8 matches there.

Further you are saying Misbah is a proven failure as a tactician, ok fair enough. But, what exactly Shan has done in his career which makes him a success and not a failiure as of now. You said that he improved, so is he the only person who can improve while everyone else whether as captain or coach is constant. Shan was luckier than most to have as many chances, still happy that he did well for Pak and hope that he can improve his range and consistency.

 

[Junaids]

Shan has scored his 2nd 100 in 37 innings and some posters are tagging others like he has broken world record of centuries. Our fans are too early to make someone into a hero and make them into a villain as fast unless there is ego involved which some of the posters clearly have here.

Shan played well and I am happy for him but he was playing on much extended chance than many get. Which can be proven by the fact that many 30+ average players couldnt get 19 tests let alone Shan who was averaging in mid 20s. Sami Aslam, Umar Akmal, Fawad Alam etc were discarded with better averages much earlier.

Shan has to much more than what he has done to justify extended run he has got. Needs to carry on from here consistently.

I’m no Shan Masood fan: I recognise that hard work has raised him to the level of “an average Test opener”.

The problem is this. Azhar Ali isn’t a good enough player any more to be in the team, and Babar Azam has no leadership qualities - like Tendulkar he is a really good batsman with a fairly small brain.

Shaheen Shah Afridi’s two scandals really show that you need at least the captain to be house-trained and fluent in English. Inzamam’s and Sarfraz’s pathetic diplomatic disasters as skipper reinforce this.

Unfortunately, I don’t think you can be an international captain unless you can do the PR side of the job with both the global public and media and with the opposition.

So unless you can conduct interviews in English, you’re not fit to be an international captain.

I don’t like that, but it’s a fact. Cricket is a game of two teams, with a global viewership.

And I see no current alternative to Shan Masood for the captaincy.

 

[KingKhan12]

Really happy for Shan. He has improved over past yeae or so but was always getting out after a start so he needed to get a big score to quite his critics. He needs to learn once in he should play his natural shots when the ball is in the zone for him instead of going too defensive.
Hope he kicks on now.

 

[Titan24]

I’m no Shan Masood fan: I recognise that hard work has raised him to the level of “an average Test opener”.

The problem is this. Azhar Ali isn’t a good enough player any more to be in the team, and Babar Azam has no leadership qualities - like Tendulkar he is a really good batsman with a fairly small brain.

Shaheen Shah Afridi’s two scandals really show that you need at least the captain to be house-trained and fluent in English. Inzamam’s and Sarfraz’s pathetic diplomatic disasters as skipper reinforce this.

Unfortunately, I don’t think you can be an international captain unless you can do the PR side of the job with both the global public and media and with the opposition.

So unless you can conduct interviews in English, you’re not fit to be an international captain.

I don’t like that, but it’s a fact. Cricket is a game of two teams, with a global viewership.

And I see no current alternative to Shan Masood for the captaincy.

I completely agree with the most of the things you have said. At the same time I think we need to give bit of time for Babar to show his leadership side (If he has any), Kohli and Smith developed their leadership side with time so you never know. Azhar has definitely been struggling and if Pak would have lost this match he should have been dropped and stripped of the captaincy as well but I think Pak has done well and Azhar is trying too at the crease.

For Shan I think PCB is and was also thinking on the terms you are suggesting and that is why he was persisted with for so long and might have been the captain if he would have produced 2-3 performances he has produced now early in the year.

So overall its just a waiting game at the moment who is gonna get that captaincy role or Azhar will continue. It will be dependent upon how Azhar does and Pak does in tests, Babar progresses as leader in T20s and Shan’s progress as a player in tests.

I know Shan can do a good job but he needs to prove himself as player first.

 

[topspin]

Factually incorrect and contradicting on number of grounds.

Firstly Hafeez was averaging around 45 in his first 7 tests with 2 100s and 3 50s and not to forget he provided a decent bowling option too and none of these matches were in UAE.

Secondly you are implying that UAE is a batting heaven when Shan averages 20 in 8 matches there.

Further you are saying Misbah is a proven failure as a tactician, ok fair enough. But, what exactly Shan has done in his career which makes him a success and not a failiure as of now. You said that he improved, so is he the only person who can improve while everyone else whether as captain or coach is constant. Shan was luckier than most to have as many chances, still happy that he did well for Pak and hope that he can improve his range and consistency.

You obviously didn't do your due diligence properly. Before Hafeez debuted in the UAE (in 2011) he was averaging between 30 and 31. If you don't believe me, you can either do the calculations yourself or I can happily provide the proof here. So unless you can prove my numbers are incorrect, I've just exposed your double standards.

Also his average of c.45 in his first 7 tests was inflated by cheap runs against a very poor Bangladesh side in his first three tests. That bowling attack he faced was far worse than the current bowlers of the Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan sides. Before his first series in the UAE, he also scored easy runs against Zimbabwe. Unlike Hafeez, Shan Masood has yet to play against a minnow test side like Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan. If he had the opportunities that Hafeez had against that calibre of opposition, he probably would have been averaging 30-35 by now.

As for your point about Shan's average in the UAE and being luckier to have more chances than others. I have already addressed this and acknowledged that he got more test caps than he deserved between 2013 - 2017 in the Azhar Ali thread. So please lets not keep regurgitating this over and over again.

 

[world cup captain]

The difference with Shan Masood is he was born and raised in Kuwait. He was also schooled there as well, which suggests his age on his Birth Certificate is probably genuine.

Shan is genuinely 30 though.

Was few years older to me in high school (different school).

I understand that which is why I'm a bit more lenient on him. Unless you perform like Bradman, it's not worth investing in a +30-year-old.

 

[Titan24]

You obviously didn't do your due diligence properly. Before Hafeez debuted in the UAE (in 2011) he was averaging between 30 and 31. If you don't believe me, you can either do the calculations yourself or I can happily provide the proof here. So unless you can prove my numbers are incorrect, I've just exposed your double standards.

Also his average of c.45 in his first 7 tests was inflated by cheap runs against a very poor Bangladesh side in his first three tests. That bowling attack he faced was far worse than the current bowlers of the Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan sides. Before his first series in the UAE, he also scored easy runs against Zimbabwe. Unlike Hafeez, Shan Masood has yet to play against a minnow test side like Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan. If he had the opportunities that Hafeez had against that calibre of opposition, he probably would have been averaging 30-35 by now.

As for your point about Shan's average in the UAE and being luckier to have more chances than others. I have already addressed this and acknowledged that he got more test caps than he deserved between 2013 - 2017 in the Azhar Ali thread. So please lets not keep regurgitating this over and over again.

I thought we were talking about initial matches of Hafeez test career. If my calculations are correct Hafeez averaged around 34 in tests before UAE and ended his career with an average around 38 so its not only him favouring UAE but he became a much improved player around 2010 as his ODI record will show as well during that time. I showed the first 7 matches of Hafeez as reference which also had 100 against WI and 95 against Eng and he still wasnt kept in the team as expectations were higher.

Anyways I hope Shan progresses and fulfills the expectations of Pak team, PCB and management. Looks like he was and is still considered a candidate for test captaincy and that is why he was given a long run if I am not wrong. Dont mind if its the direction but would want Shan to produce atleast a few more performances like today.

 

[Abdullah]

The one thing you can bet your bottom dollar on is this won't get to shaans head. That is essential for a sportsman, vital for a Pakistani sportsman.
2nd thing is amazing work ethic.

Guys like him u back for a tad longer

 

[Abdullah]

Only problem is the long rope given to him unlike many equally skilled batsmen before him who got few tests and were dropped without testing further. I hope he keeps his form up and doesn't become another Asad Shafiq.

Read my post above
Hopefully he goes on to bigger and better

 

[Bullet Drive]

Can he succeed in England, that is the question?

 

[Boi]

Can he succeed in England, that is the question?

He’ll be nicking off early to Anderson or Woakes over the wicket or Broad and Archer from around the wicket. Take your pick.

 

[muqarrab]

Well said.

I would take the runs today though, no matter how ugly and full of chances, as they helped the team.

I would take the runs if they come frequent enough.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Shan is not good enough to survive in England.We need another opener.

 

[The Viper]

Much needed ton for him.

He needs to convert more starts into big scores.

 

[emranabbas]

I wouldn't really look to much into this innings it's a batting friendly pitch

Even hafeez, Ahmed shehzad Etc.. will get a 100 on this pitch on day 3

For Shan to prove himself he needs to score consistently in all different environments, or else we will end up with another Asad shafiq.

 

[moghul]

I wouldn't really look to much into this innings it's a batting friendly pitch

Even hafeez, Ahmed shehzad Etc.. will get a 100 on this pitch on day 3

For Shan to prove himself he needs to score consistently in all different environments, or else we will end up with another Asad shafiq.

Probably you missed his performance in SA and Australia where your other favorites did not score in double digits, or you juts don't like Shan anyway.

 

[moghul]

One more good performance and Shan should be made test captain, he's getting there.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] its good work from Masood but it still is not enough, he will have to consistently shoe these performances. Also did you actually watch the innings? He was getting beaten a lot and scored off lots of edges, it was a somewhat scratchy and lucky innings.

And why is all the praise directed to Masood? Abids innings was better. BuT sHan SpEaKs gOoD eNgLiSh!!!!

 

[moghul]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] its good work from Masood but it still is not enough, he will have to consistently shoe these performances. Also did you actually watch the innings? He was getting beaten a lot and scored off lots of edges, it was a somewhat scratchy and lucky innings.

And why is all the praise directed to Masood? Abids innings was better. BuT sHan SpEaKs gOoD eNgLiSh!!!!

Agree, Shan just not score hundred and fifties in Australia , SA and Pakistan, he has be as consistent and prolific as of Azhar Ali, Harris Sohail, Shafiq, Imam, and Fakhar , or should be kicked out of the team. There are so many Gavaskars, Gooch and Greenidges in our domestic cricket waiting for their chance.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Agree, Shan just not score hundred and fifties in Australia , SA and Pakistan, he has be as consistent and prolific as of Azhar Ali, Harris Sohail, Shafiq, Imam, and Fakhar , or should be kicked out of the team. There are so many Gavaskars, Gooch and Greenidges in our domestic cricket waiting for their chance.

All of the people you listed are joker's too and should be kicked out. We should reward whoever performs.in domestics and A tours. Fawad Alam, Saud, Usman all need to get chances.
And maybe Saad Ali too,.but maybe I'm biased because he has the same name as me

 

[rollingstoned]

You’re missing the point.

Shan Masood is deeply average. I fully accept that

But the good version of Azhar Ali is gone forever. Shan Masood is already 6 runs per innings better than Azhar, and 30+ runs better outside Asia.

And every day older that Azhar gets, he falls further and further behind Shan Masood.

It’s as if Wasim Akram (aged 53) and Wahab Riaz (aged 33) were both in Pakistan’s team at Rawalpindi.

Yes, Wasim Akram had a more illustrious past. But for the Karachi Test in 2019 you are more likely to get a performance out of Wahab Riaz.

The Number One, Two and Three Priority is to get rid of Azhar Ali from the Test team. He’s finished, and the most dangerous thing of all would be if he scored some runs at home against a weak attack and you ended up stuck with him for longer.

There should rightly be question marks beside the names of Haris Sohail and Shan Masood. But they should both be in the team until Azhar has been retired.

if i remember correctly leading upto the 2016 england tour you actively campaigned against taking Shan masood to england because despite his attitude he would be a sitting duck against Broad and Anderson with the new ball. What has changed now that you are getting behind him 3 years AFTER that? By your own logic batsmen don't get better beyond a certain age.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You are a fighter Shani... Very well played... Big congratulations &#55357;&#56495; <a href="https://twitter.com/shani_official?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@shani_official</a> Many more to come!! <a href="https://t.co/8IVJUlag5k">pic.twitter.com/8IVJUlag5k</a></p>— Waqar Younis (@waqyounis99) <a href="https://twitter.com/waqyounis99/status/1208431215461781505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[emranabbas]

Probably you missed his performance in SA and Australia where your other favorites did not score in double digits, or you juts don't like Shan anyway.

I don't have favourites but if I have to choose one then Shan masood isn't fit enough To tie shoe laces of my favourite. My favourite out performed Shan in Australia and South africa.

Cricket isn't played on Cricinfo, wake up and smell the coffee

It was a very very flat pitch any hint of swing or spin shan would have not lasted That long.

Half decent performance once a blue moon and Shan has become Bradman loool

 

[Abid Z]

Agreed that players need time to develop but there is a fine line between persisting with failiures and developing a player. One can argue that why wasnt Sami Aslam developed as he averaged more than Shan in tests when he was dropped and still does, why wasnt Fawad Alam given 19 matches in tests when he scored century in Srl on his debut and that too as an opener and averaged 41 when his test career was paused for almost a decade. What about Umer Akmal who averaged 35 at the age or 21 in tests and was dropped?

I dont like to target players as parchi etc. but Masood did get much more oppurtunities in tests than the players we have dropped in the last 2 decades.

You have to stop this method of debate “if Shan is in the team XYZ is more deserving over him” I can’t possibly add to it or engage with it as there are too many factors on why somebody is selected over somebody else.

What we can say though is that there is a process of player development that one must bear in mind before discarding a player or deeming them to be a TTF. It’s really disingenuous to pick a player and drop them as soon as they have a lean start AT that point they are neither tried or really tested. What we can say is that Shan scores runs in difficult situations. The chase in Sri Lanka where he made his first hundred was obdurate stuff and against South Africa last year he made some good 50’s against one of the best attacks in the world in one of the hardest places for a Pakistani batsman. He played the short ball well and wasn’t afraid to take the attack to the opposition displayed a range of stroke play. I think it’s fair to say we should respect the fact that he is trying to expand and develop his game. If he succeeds pak cricket will be better for it and if he fails then hopefully those warming the bench will be bench ready. It’s good to have depth in the squad.

 

[Junaids]

if i remember correctly leading upto the 2016 england tour you actively campaigned against taking Shan masood to england because despite his attitude he would be a sitting duck against Broad and Anderson with the new ball. What has changed now that you are getting behind him 3 years AFTER that? By your own logic batsmen don't get better beyond a certain age.

Yes I did, you’re quite right.

At 28 and 29, Shan Masood paid his own money to get intensive coaching from Garry Palmer, Alastair Cook’s batting coach.

And he improved himself from “rubbish” to “average”.

But the irreversible decline of Azhar Ali leaves Abid Ali, Sami Aslam and Shan Masood as Pakistan’s obvious Top Three.

Pakistan needs a captain who speaks good English, and it shouldn’t be Azhar after averaging 30 in 2018 and 21 in 2019 (while Shan averaged 42 and 40).

So yes, I’ve changed my mind.

 

[MenInG]

Misbah all praise for Shan today and worried that if Bangladesh Test series doesnt happen, Shan will suffer:

"Even Shan Masood who has scored a hundred needs to play Test cricket continuously after this"

 

[Abdullah719]

Shan's 2nd hundred vs SL.

<iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/o2xeg/gqedua" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[topspin]

I thought we were talking about initial matches of Hafeez test career. If my calculations are correct Hafeez averaged around 34 in tests before UAE and ended his career with an average around 38 so its not only him favouring UAE but he became a much improved player around 2010 as his ODI record will show as well during that time. I showed the first 7 matches of Hafeez as reference which also had 100 against WI and 95 against Eng and he still wasnt kept in the team as expectations were higher.

Anyways I hope Shan progresses and fulfills the expectations of Pak team, PCB and management. Looks like he was and is still considered a candidate for test captaincy and that is why he was given a long run if I am not wrong. Dont mind if its the direction but would want Shan to produce atleast a few more performances like today.

Hafeez became a regular from 2010 onwards. In the 2000s he wasn't a regular.

Sorry I got my pre-UAE test debut average wrong because I thought he had made his first test appearance in the Middle East back in 2011, but turns out it was in 2010, so yes you're right, as he averaged 33.85 (to be precise) before playing test cricket in the UAE.

However, having said that my point still stands about your double standards here. If you take away Hafeez's baby soft runs against Bangladesh (all in 2003), he would have been averaging 30.87 prior to this UAE test debut (in 2010). Shan Masood currently averages 29.43, which is of negligible difference but it is pertinent to note has yet to pad up his stats against the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan, who are all significantly superior to 2003 Bangladesh in red ball cricket.

Hafeez's average of 45 in 22 of his 55 test caps shows he benefited immensely from the bowling graveyard wickets of the UAE. Other than Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, he doesn't average 40+ anywhere else.

But despite all of the above in your eyes he's "pretty good", as per your post on page 3 of this thread. Your analysis couldn't reek possibly any more of the double standards you've shown here.

 

[Titan24]

Hafeez became a regular from 2010 onwards. In the 2000s he wasn't a regular.

Sorry I got my pre-UAE test debut average wrong because I thought he had made his first test appearance in the Middle East back in 2011, but turns out it was in 2010, so yes you're right, as he averaged 33.85 (to be precise) before playing test cricket in the UAE.

However, having said that my point still stands about your double standards here. If you take away Hafeez's baby soft runs against Bangladesh (all in 2003), he would have been averaging 30.87 prior to this UAE test debut (in 2010). Shan Masood currently averages 29.43, which is of negligible difference but it is pertinent to note has yet to pad up his stats against the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan, who are all significantly superior to 2003 Bangladesh in red ball cricket.

Hafeez's average of 45 in 22 of his 55 test caps shows he benefited immensely from the bowling graveyard wickets of the UAE. Other than Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, he doesn't average 40+ anywhere else.

But despite all of the above in your eyes he's "pretty good", as per your post on page 3 of this thread. Your analysis couldn't reek possibly any more of the double standards you've shown here.

To be honest I dont get exactly what double standards you are talking about. Hafeez ended with an average of 38 with 10 100s as discussed earlier and on top of that he provided a pretty good fifth bowling option. Yes his technique was mediocre but if you look at the historical openers for Pak Hafeez is right up there amongst the top ones in terms of stats. However, its not a hidden fact that his technique was poor and rarely performed in overseas tests.

Shan has just 2 centuries at the moment and is 30 years of age with an average of 29. So what exactly is your point here? Lol! When I highlight Shan's average on pitches you call graveyard than you say I have already addressed it etc. I am not exactly sure who is showing double standards. Shan averages 20 in UAE, you have no justification and when Hafeez scores at a higher average than those wickets are called graveyards by you. Yes Hafeez was technically poor but you cant take away the his centuries and performances irrespective of the conditions.

I hope Shan scores 10 100s and ends with an average close to 40 as well. However excuses like he played against good teams and on minefields etc are pretty poor.

 

[topspin]

To be honest I dont get exactly what double standards you are talking about. Hafeez ended with an average of 38 with 10 100s as discussed earlier and on top of that he provided a pretty good fifth bowling option. Yes his technique was mediocre but if you look at the historical openers for Pak Hafeez is right up there amongst the top ones in terms of stats. However, its not a hidden fact that his technique was poor and rarely performed in overseas tests.

Shan has just 2 centuries at the moment and is 30 years of age with an average of 29. So what exactly is your point here? Lol! When I highlight Shan's average on pitches you call graveyard than you say I have already addressed it etc. I am not exactly sure who is showing double standards. Shan averages 20 in UAE, you have no justification and when Hafeez scores at a higher average than those wickets are called graveyards by you. Yes Hafeez was technically poor but you cant take away the his centuries and performances irrespective of the conditions.

I hope Shan scores 10 100s and ends with an average close to 40 as well. However excuses like he played against good teams and on minefields etc are pretty poor.

I'll explain again. Hafeez was also struggling to prove himself with a low average which was inflated by cheap runs scored against Bangladesh in 2003, before he cemented his place in the side (from 2010 onwards). Shan Masood currently averages 29.43 but all you do is knock him for his performances over the 2013-2017 period, even though he has yet to play minnows, so therefore I have exposed your double standards.

Second reason why I cite "double standards" is because you called Hafeez "pretty good". If you want to lower your standards for him then be my guest, but I would strongly advise you read the OP in the following thread:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...a-(once-Younis-Khan-and-Misbah-ul-Haq-retire)

"However excuses like he played against good teams and on minefields etc are pretty poor"

Wow this really is absurd. So are you telling me that runs scored against the top 5 test sides are of similar value against the likes of Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe?

Your biased tendencies were also apparent when you mentioned the following the other day:

".... team and team management obviously did something right which previous management couldn't".

I'm not surprised you came up with this because after all you specifically vouched for a tea sipping Mohsin Khan to replace Mickey Arthur at the start of the year.

As much I detest Misbah, even I wouldn't pick Mohsin over him.

Normally I would argue/prove as to why you're wrong, as I have done numerous times, but on this occasion the post yields a fitting response to this substandard post.

 

[whyamir]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You are a fighter Shani... Very well played... Big congratulations �� <a href="https://twitter.com/shani_official?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@shani_official</a> Many more to come!! <a href="https://t.co/8IVJUlag5k">pic.twitter.com/8IVJUlag5k</a></p>— Waqar Younis (@waqyounis99) <a href="https://twitter.com/waqyounis99/status/1208431215461781505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

****.

That probably means this pathetic excuse for a batsman will stick around a while longer, as other deserving "Abid Alis" are rotting away in domestic...

 

[Titan24]

I'll explain again. Hafeez was also struggling to prove himself with a low average which was inflated by cheap runs scored against Bangladesh in 2003, before he cemented his place in the side (from 2010 onwards). Shan Masood currently averages 29.43 but all you do is knock him for his performances over the 2013-2017 period, even though he has yet to play minnows, so therefore I have exposed your double standards.

Second reason why I cite "double standards" is because you called Hafeez "pretty good". If you want to lower your standards for him then be my guest, but I would strongly advise you read the OP in the following thread:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...a-(once-Younis-Khan-and-Misbah-ul-Haq-retire)

"However excuses like he played against good teams and on minefields etc are pretty poor"

Wow this really is absurd. So are you telling me that runs scored against the top 5 test sides are of similar value against the likes of Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe?

Your biased tendencies were also apparent when you mentioned the following the other day:

".... team and team management obviously did something right which previous management couldn't".

I'm not surprised you came up with this because after all you specifically vouched for a tea sipping Mohsin Khan to replace Mickey Arthur at the start of the year.

As much I detest Misbah, even I wouldn't pick Mohsin over him.

Normally I would argue/prove as to why you're wrong, as I have done numerous times, but on this occasion the post yields a fitting response to this substandard post.

I said Hafeez to be good based upon overall test statistics and that he is based upon Pak standards.

You are swinging your imaginary sword like no tmw. Firstly you were calling me having double standards because I said Hafeez stats were good and now with team management doing something right. They have won a series in the 2nd test series they were in charge of and its clearly better than winning one in two years.

I think you might not exactly be sure of what double standards mean I am afraid. I am putting forward the facts and stats for everything I am saying. Yet to get the answer of your double standards about Hafeez piling up runs in graveyard of UAE while for Shan who averages 20 their you dont have much to say.

You keep on bringing in Mohsin again and again too. Lol! As said earlier and I still stick by my words he would have been better in tests than Mickey and I can again prove it statistically as he won more test series as head coach in few months than Mickey in 2 years. Stats, results speak louder than emotions and personal likings and disliking.

Anyways I think we both have nothing much else to say, so its time to let it go. Again just to be clear I have no issues with Shan Masood, the only issue was his lack of performances as reflected in his overall stats. If he can better that than nobody has any problem.

 

[topspin]

I said Hafeez to be good based upon overall test statistics and that he is based upon Pak standards.

You are swinging your imaginary sword like no tmw. Firstly you were calling me having double standards because I said Hafeez stats were good and now with team management doing something right. They have won a series in the 2nd test series they were in charge of and its clearly better than winning one in two years.

I think you might not exactly be sure of what double standards mean I am afraid. I am putting forward the facts and stats for everything I am saying. Yet to get the answer of your double standards about Hafeez piling up runs in graveyard of UAE while for Shan who averages 20 their you dont have much to say.

You keep on bringing in Mohsin again and again too. Lol! As said earlier and I still stick by my words he would have been better in tests than Mickey and I can again prove it statistically as he won more test series as head coach in few months than Mickey in 2 years. Stats, results speak louder than emotions and personal likings and disliking.

Anyways I think we both have nothing much else to say, so its time to let it go. Again just to be clear I have no issues with Shan Masood, the only issue was his lack of performances as reflected in his overall stats. If he can better that than nobody has any problem.

You should be the last man on Earth to lecture me on defining double standards since you're so full of it.

I posted that link to that thread showing his awful average outside Asia to expose the level of absurdity in your view of Hafeez being "pretty good" as a test opener.

The way you came to this conclusion (based on his overall average) is the same reason why you think Mohsin Khan is a superior coach to Mickey Arthur. It can be summed up in two words, Lazy Analysis.

Look you've been exposed for your misguided views surrounding Shan Masood, Hafeez and Mohsin Khan, so on that note I agree there's nothing else to add to this discussion.

 

[Abdullah719]

Seems to be enjoying facing the Bangladesh pace attack so far.

 

[Abid Z]

Happy for him. Has many flaws but good to see him score runs.

 

[adzzy786]

Again someone cashing in against weak bowling attacks. In England he won’t pass 25 runs

 

[minamino]

I think if Imam was playing this and previous series, he would have scored a 100 too