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[VIDEOS] Umpires step in over England and Pakistan’s bounce throws

MenInG

MenInG

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From Eoin Morgan presser transcript as provided by ICC:

Q. There seemed to be a few conversations about the ball going out there when England were batting, and then when Jos was dismissed, he had a good look at it on his way back to the pavilion. Do you know what that was about?

EOIN MORGAN: The discussions were throughout the whole of the two innings. The umpires came to me after about -- I can't remember the exact over -- but it was mid-innings, and seemed to think that we were throwing the ball in on the bounce too much or it was being over-exaggerated and the other side said it would be the same for the both, so it was really back to stand that the conversations that were stopping the game where I thought Pakistan were doing the exact same thing, and Jos was just intrigued to see when the ball gets hit against LED boards, it does scuff it up quite a lot, and I'm sure he was interested to see if one side was rougher than the other or if it looked natural or unnatural.
 
England crying after a loss in a big game. What a surprise. Keep crying
 
Going by the history of English Media and Fans and specially ECB always have a theory to create chaos when they are done and dusted in their own backyard and with their own brand of cricket . It happened in ChampionsTrophy Semifinal against Pakistan and so does it will be repeated again today. The Talk of reverse swing by Pakistan using the bounce on the pitch is not new and one must be sure that England hates being on recieving end of trashing specially when they have on and off field dominance
 
There is a reason why I hate them... bunch of losers, don't care if they have the best batting of bowling but players like these are losers in my eyes:ishant
 
Haha. What's next/

England concerned about Pakistan rubbing the ball too hard.
 
Classic England. I am not even surprised. Sorest losers of all. Move along.
 
no matter whatever tactics they use , whether they try to control pitch standards for their matches or not ,if their playing 11 is not having a great day , their media will come up with some false hopes and explaining others they were done hard and needs justice.
 
Let them cry match is over now and we won. English are the worse when it comes to point fingers of ball tampering and scuffing the bowl. Let the poms cry 😢 they are not winning the WC. Keep dreaming. I hope India Will Beat them too.
 
they complained last time aswell when we beat them in the champions trophy.
 
No need for that Makes them sound like sore losers
 
lahoriyah1234 said:
Let them cry match is over now and we won. English are the worse when it comes to point fingers of ball tampering and scuffing the bowl. Let the poms cry �� they are not winning the WC. Keep dreaming. I hope India Will Beat them too.
Click to expand...

They will beaten by NZ Aus and may be Windies.. watch :)
 
Last time it was "dead pitch" this time it was bouncing the ball too much even though they were doing the exact same. Cry babies serial whiners.
 
They can't accept defeat like a gentleman.

Why was there no issue when Jason Roy was doing that?
 
haha ....i just love it.
Been hearing this since 1987, always the same 'ronia shaklan'...
As someone rightly pointed out...move along chaps.
 
Sorry but the use of 2 new balls and a crap quality ball is killing the game. So what if both sides are scuffing ball up, atleast reverse swing would help bowlers in a game which is to batsmen friendly.
 
So what Morgan says is both sides were throwing in on the bounce throughout the match to get reverse swing.
 
[MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] The transcript is pretty poor and even puts words in Morgans mouth that weren't said.

The most relevant bits of what he actually said:

"they (the umpires) emphasised that it would be the same for the both".

"It was relayed back to us that the conversations that were stopping the game (between the umpires and Pakistani players during the 2nd innings) were that Pakistan were doing the same thing".

There's no whining, he's quite simply stating the conversation between umpires and players about the ball being thrown in on the bounce took place for both teams. I also fail to see him mention his concern about the ball being thrown in too much so I don't quite see where the thread title comes from?
 
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You can complain about the ball all you want Morgan, but the fact is your batsmen succumbed to spin rather than pace. 4 of your top batsmen including you were out for a 100 runs. And you going on the backfoot against Hafeez that certainly wasn't pace bowling or reverse swing that undid you.
 
Lol so in the CT it was a pitch which favored Pakistan and now they are trying to ban throwing the ball one bounce to the keeper? What stopped them from throwing the ball one bounce to the keeper lol
 
I kinda don't follow that paragraph. Is he saying both sides were doing the same thing or that Pakistan might have been doing something more?
 
zulfiqar said:
I kinda don't follow that paragraph. Is he saying both sides were doing the same thing or that Pakistan might have been doing something more?
Click to expand...

He's saying the umpires had discussions with both teams about the ball being thrown in on the bounce.
 
You guys are utterly unbelievable.. I swear.

Based on the transcript alone, all he sakd was that the umpires were having those issues in both innings. Not once did he state that he had issues over pakistan bowlers illegally doing anything
 
Grunge101 said:
You guys are utterly unbelievable.. I swear.

Based on the transcript alone, all he sakd was that the umpires were having those issues in both innings. Not once did he state that he had issues over pakistan bowlers illegally doing anything
Click to expand...

You should read BBC news Headline then

"England Batsmen Unhappy with state of ball
In Pakistan Defeat"

"When the ball gets hit into the LED advertising boards, it does scuff it up quite a lot. I'm sure Jos was interested to see if one side was rougher than the other, if it looked natural or unnatural," said Morgan.

"If I go into it I will say something that will get me into trouble," said Root. "I'm just going to leave it."

Im sure your intelligent enough to conclude what the above is referring to
 
Savak said:
Lol so in the CT it was a pitch which favored Pakistan and now they are trying to ban throwing the ball one bounce to the keeper? What stopped them from throwing the ball one bounce to the keeper lol
Click to expand...

LOL they themselves were doing it too and umpire warned them as well, but they have a problem with Pakistan doing it.

:djb
 
Zaz said:
You should read BBC news Headline then

"England Batsmen Unhappy with state of ball
In Pakistan Defeat"

"When the ball gets hit into the LED advertising boards, it does scuff it up quite a lot. I'm sure Jos was interested to see if one side was rougher than the other, if it looked natural or unnatural," said Morgan.

"If I go into it I will say something that will get me into trouble," said Root. "I'm just going to leave it."

Im sure your intelligent enough to conclude what the above is referring to
Click to expand...

Where in there has it said they were unhappy with the state of the ball other than the headline which isn't a quote? Root knows people are going to whine and complain whatever he says about it. Just look at this very thread where everyone's whining because Morgan stated the fact that both teams were asked by the umpires to stop throwing the ball in on the bounce.
 
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Unnecessary fake creation of drama in this thread.

Root said no such thing
 
HitWicket said:
Where in there has it said they were unhappy with the state of the ball other than the headline which isn't a quote? Root knows people are going to whine and complain whatever he says about it. Just look at this very thread where everyone's whining because Morgan stated the fact that both teams were asked by the umpires to stop throwing the ball in on the bounce.
Click to expand...

Why do you think jos picked up the ball to inspect it when he was dismissed? Would you do that if you was happy with the state of the ball?
 
Grunge101 said:
You guys are utterly unbelievable.. I swear.

Based on the transcript alone, all he sakd was that the umpires were having those issues in both innings. Not once did he state that he had issues over pakistan bowlers illegally doing anything
Click to expand...

Correct.

Everyone losing their mind WITHOUT READING.
 
Zaz said:
Why do you think jos picked up the ball to inspect it when he was dismissed? Would you do that if you was happy with the state of the ball?
Click to expand...

To have a look at it (and then pass it back to the umpire). The umpires inspect the ball after each boundary/over, that doesn't automatically mean they're unhappy with the state of it. How would I know the state of the ball to be happy/unhappy without looking at it?

Are you really suggesting someone is a "crybaby", "sore loser" and "whiner" (just picking out a few from this thread) because they looked at the ball?
 
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HitWicket said:
To have a look at it (and then pass it back to the umpire). The umpires inspect the ball after each boundary/over, that doesn't automatically mean they're unhappy with the state of it. How would I know the state of the ball to be happy/unhappy without looking at it?

Are you really suggesting someone is a "crybaby", "sore loser" and "whiner" (just picking out a few from this thread) because they looked at the ball?
Click to expand...

Passions are high. We got 4-0d by the same people. Maybe a little too much overreaction. Good game though
 
HitWicket said:
Where in there has it said they were unhappy with the state of the ball other than the headline which isn't a quote? Root knows people are going to whine and complain whatever he says about it. Just look at this very thread where everyone's whining because Morgan stated the fact that both teams were asked by the umpires to stop throwing the ball in on the bounce.
Click to expand...

HitWicket said:
To have a look at it (and then pass it back to the umpire). The umpires inspect the ball after each boundary/over, that doesn't automatically mean they're unhappy with the state of it.

Are you really suggesting someone is a "Crybaby", "Sore loser", "Whiner" (just picking out a few from this thread) because they looked at the ball?
Click to expand...

Im not suggesting Im stating it buttler thought theres an issue there hence why the ball was looked at before he passed it back

Morgan even said so that buttler was interested to see if one side was rougher than the other if it looked natural or unnatural!! What does that mean Obv he suspected underhand tactics
 
I am waiting till they report that Hafeez was chucking in both batting and bowling
 
Slog said:
Unnecessary fake creation of drama in this thread.

Root said no such thing
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/48506522

England batsman Joe Root refused to comment on conversations with the umpires about the ball after the World Cup defeat by Pakistan at Trent Bridge.

The umpires spoke to both teams to warn them not to throw the ball into the turf unnecessarily.

After he was dismissed, England batsman Jos Buttler took a close look at the ball on his way back to the pavilion.

"If I go into it I will say something that will get me into trouble," said Root. "I'm just going to leave it."

---------------

Doubt BBC made it up. Of course, his comments are open to interpretation.
 
HitWicket said:
He's saying the umpires had discussions with both teams about the ball being thrown in on the bounce.
Click to expand...

Well then there's nothing wrong with that at all is there? I guess that last bit where he said that Jos was trying to get a look at the ball to see if it was "unnatural" was a bit weird and again I guess he's trying to say something more but from that unclear statement alone I can't really make anything of it.

On another note, did you guys notice that Sarfaraz again mentioned the 10:30 am start? I hope we never hear "10:30" from him again!
 
Joe Root has opted to bite his tongue over the mid-innings conversations he and Jos Buttler had with the umpires during England’s shock loss to Pakistan at the World Cup.

Both teams were spoken to by the umpires about their treatment of the ball, with match officials unhappy with the amount of bounce returns sent in by fielders. Fielders often throw the ball in from the deep on the bounce to encourage reverse swing, and it is up to the umpire to deem what is and is not appropriate.

Having bowled first and been reprimanded by officials, England’s batsmen were seemingly unhappy that more was not being done to monitor Pakistan’s efforts. Buttler most notably inspected the ball after being dismissed for 103.

“If I go into it I will say something that will get me into trouble,” Root said after play. “I’m just going to leave it.”

England captain Eoin Morgan shed more light on the issue, claiming Root and Buttler were looking to ensure umpires were being consistent in their vigilance of the ball.

“There were discussions throughout the whole of the two innings,” he said. “The umpires came to me, mid-innings, and seemed to think that we were throwing the ball in on the bounce too much, or it was being over-exaggerated.

“They emphasised it would be the same for both. It was really about us then... the conversations that were stopping the game were that Pakistan were doing the same thing.

“Jos was just intrigued to see the ball. When the ball is hit against the LED advertising boards it does scuff it up quite a lot so he was just interested to see if one side was rougher than the other, natural or unnatural.”

Pakistan’s Mohammad Hafeez revealed after the match they had been warned if their throws came in on two bounces penalties would be issued.

“It’s their job and they were doing their job,” Hafeez said of the umpires’ intervention.

“A couple of incidents for both sides where the throw didn’t come in one bounce, but on two or three bounces. We got a warning after 20 overs that if we threw in on two bounces, we would get a penalty, so I made a point of running in to hand them the ball. You don’t want to have to do it but they were just doing their job and they did it right.”

Former England captain Michael Vaughan said neither team had any reason to complain in a match where bat still comfortably dominated ball.

“There was nothing untoward, just a little bit of gamesmanship,” Vaughan told BBC Radio 5 Live.

“It is a trick of the trade — you get the ball and you fling it one-bounce into the keeper. There were a few occasions today where the teams were throwing the ball in on the bounce from 10, 15 yards and that’s where the umpires step in.

“England did the same so when the chase is on and the pressure is on, you can’t start pointing the finger.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricke...s/news-story/c15f5aa66f0a236f4d652ade95619c9d
 
Zaz said:
Why do you think jos picked up the ball to inspect it when he was dismissed? Would you do that if you was happy with the state of the ball?
Click to expand...

He was just curious - like you are in an international game!
 
didn't england actually tamper the ball against pakistan in one of the recent jamodis?
 
Eng be like
What they teach in class (junaid faheem hasnain shaheen imad yasir shah
Vs
What they give in exam (amir wahab shadab hasan
 
This is the most ridiculous complaint! Throwing the ball on one bounce is what most commentators and coaches suggest to fielders for quicker & accurate throws/release! If that spoils the ball so be it! The game is already heavily batsmen friendly! Posting 300+ runs should have been a rarity as in 90s, but due to sick batting friendly rules we are seeing this today with 300+ runs posted easily and most teams fail to chase those or teams fall around 100 runs in the event of posting 300+ which makes it easier for the chasing team!

Proper ODIs were when around 250 was the par score and teams fought to defend/chase those! 300 was scored when the team utterly dominated or the opposition utterly failed! (Similarly below 200 scores was when teams played brilliantly/poorly... Not because of today's psychological pressures, it was proper competition of skills...)

There are two main reasons for this change of rules 1) Advent of T20s and hence high-scoring suddenly became too cool with 150 to 200 being scored in 20 overs why not 300 to 500 in 50 overs? 2) The white balls (thanks to day/night matches) getting discolored soon so they couldn't use the ball for full 50 overs and they had to replace a semi-new ball around 35th over! This was giving advantage to either batting or bowling teams and there was conspiracy around it! (The problem was with how the umpires used to decide the ball became unplayable/discolored/lost shape and which ball they replaced for it!)

Actually ODI cricket was very good with 1 red ball and pure day matches! White ball & day/night is suited for only T20s... A full innings in night gives different advantage/disadvantage to the teams! (But Day/Night matches are needed for financial reasons!) That's why Sachin Tendulkar came up with an ODI idea of two innings of 20 or 25 overs each (like tests) to balance things up (in terms of ball, pitch, light, etc) Its also true that the old ODIs were also not perfect with teams batting second always struggled because of dried up pitch in the afternoon, bowling team going aggressive with reverse swing, etc. Chasing was almost impossible and hence toss became crucial...! Today at least this is sorted out... But using 2 balls at different ends is actually tedious. Instead they can use a ball till 15 overs, introduce a second new ball in 16th over take it back in 40th over and bring back the 1st ball in 41st over! This can solve the issue considerably!
 
I think the BBC are to blame here, They made it into an unnecessary dramatised headline saying "England unhappy with condition of the ball", Morgan clearly said that BOTH teams were doing so. So Pakistan were unhappy with what England did to you can argue.
 
Lol, seems like no-one has actually read what Morgan has said.

But they have cried so much in past that people are not taking them seriously maybe?
 
Clickbait from BBC. Shame that many people fall so comprehensively for these tricks. Just read the bladdy article. This is close to a non-story.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There used to be a time when umpires inspected the ball, nowadays it seems some players think it's their job to keep checking the condition of the ball <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvPAK</a> <a href="https://t.co/PVywmE6skD">pic.twitter.com/PVywmE6skD</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1135875526890053633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 4, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
IAJ said:
Lol, seems like no-one has actually read what Morgan has said.

But they have cried so much in past that people are not taking them seriously maybe?
Click to expand...

Also seems people did not note that Jos Buttler and Bairstow had things to say to umpires about the ball etc - odd this happens when England start to lose.
 
MenInG said:
Also seems people did not note that Jos Buttler and Bairstow had things to say to umpires about the ball etc - odd this happens when England start to lose.
Click to expand...

When did this happen? Got some footage?
 
MenInG said:
I saw Bairstow in conversation with Pak players for sure, Job Buttler one is mentioned by Morgan.
Click to expand...

Bairstow opened his mouth therefore he must've been talking about the state of the ball? I fail to see Morgan saying Buttler talked to the umpires about the ball, you appear to be putting words in his mouth again?
 
HitWicket said:
Bairstow opened his mouth therefore he must've been talking about the state of the ball? I fail to see Morgan saying Buttler talked to the umpires about the ball, you appear to be putting words in his mouth again?
Click to expand...

Morgan stated that buttler wanted to see the condition of the ball after his dismissal so he must have had a conversation with someone.

The Bairstow bit I do not know.

Bottim line is that both sides were throwing the ball in although for England it seemed to be a concerted effort of which Morgan looked pro. Sarfraz in the other hand was telling at his players not to do it.
 
HitWicket said:
Bairstow opened his mouth therefore he must've been talking about the state of the ball? I fail to see Morgan saying Buttler talked to the umpires about the ball, you appear to be putting words in his mouth again?
Click to expand...

I note that you have some special affiliation with anything anti-Pakistani

Seems to bring you on these threads immediately - I will ignore your jibe above for the moment but my patience has limits.

As for Buttler, the recording is above in Saj's tweet - listen to it.
 
barah_admi said:
Morgan stated that buttler wanted to see the condition of the ball after his dismissal so he must have had a conversation with someone.

The Bairstow bit I do not know.

Bottim line is that both sides were throwing the ball in although for England it seemed to be a concerted effort of which Morgan looked pro. Sarfraz in the other hand was telling at his players not to do it.
Click to expand...

Buttler walked past the ball as he walking off. He picked it up, looked at it, and threw it on to the umpire. Why must he have had a conversation with the umpire?

Sarfraz was telling his players not to do it because they'd done it so much the umpires had threatened them with penalty runs if it continued (whether the same was said to England in the end we don't know).
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There used to be a time when umpires inspected the ball, nowadays it seems some players think it's their job to keep checking the condition of the ball <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvPAK</a> <a href="https://t.co/PVywmE6skD">pic.twitter.com/PVywmE6skD</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1135875526890053633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 4, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

See this tweet if not sure about events.

Also Michael Vaughan quotes available on social media.
 
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MenInG said:
See this tweet if not sure about events.

Also Michael Vaughan quotes available on social media.
Click to expand...

As I said I have already seen this footage. Personally I don't care a lot for what Vaughan has to say. What I am still curious to see however is where Morgan claimed Buttler talked to the umpires about the state of the ball. Could you give me a timestamp from the press conference or outline the part of the transcript?
 
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HitWicket said:
As I said I have already seen this footage. Personally I don't care a lot for what Vaughan has to say. What I am still curious to see however is where Morgan claimed Buttler talked to the umpires about the state of the ball. Could you give me a timestamp from the press conference or outline the part of the transcript?
Click to expand...

I dont have footage but its a good guess that when a batsman examines a ball for damage/scruffing etc during an international game, it is meant to signal something to the umpire. So there may not have been a 'conversation' but you and I know well what Buttler was doing and the Root statement on BBC is also a good indicator of the general sentiment.

Lets not beat round the bush.
 
HitWicket said:
Buttler walked past the ball as he walking off. He picked it up, looked at it, and threw it on to the umpire. Why must he have had a conversation with the umpire?

Sarfraz was telling his players not to do it because they'd done it so much the umpires had threatened them with penalty runs if it continued (whether the same was said to England in the end we don't know).
Click to expand...

I'm just explaining what you asked. Also, a player once given out, should not be inspecting the ball, especially from a team more recently done for ball tampering than the opposition :)
 
English Media at their best here trying to spin a non story to deflect the defeat. Michael Vaughan said himself on the radio, even if both teams tampered with the ball the conditions were such that it would not have made a difference. Sour grapes?
 
Umpires not being bothered about Bangladesh throwing ball around. Was that rule only for Pakistan?

So, has anyone else noticed that?

Bangladesh have thrown the ball around multiple times and got away each time. Umpires didn't make an issue out of it. Which is strange since against Pakistan, they were quite a lot bothered about it.

Now, I am not a conspiracy theorist and I hate conspiracies. But this got me wondering. This clearly speaks a different attitude towards other teams? Does anyone else think the same?
 
The umpires had a word with BOTH Pakistani players and English players, so they didn’t go out of their way to target Pakistani players specifically.
 
Mamoon said:
The umpires had a word with BOTH Pakistani players and English players, so they didn’t go out of their way to target Pakistani players specifically.
Click to expand...

But how come they are not bothered about it anymore in this match England vs bangladesh?
 
adil79 said:
But how come they are not bothered about it anymore in this match England vs bangladesh?
Click to expand...

Because it is not a black and white issue. There are no official rules on the number of times the fielders are allowed to throw the ball before the umpires have a word with them.

Hence, these discussions are taken at the discretion of the umpires. When you have a different set of umpires officiating different games, you can’t expect uniformity and consistency.
 
Mamoon said:
Because it is not a black and white issue. There are no official rules on the number of times the fielders are allowed to throw the ball before the umpires have a word with them.

Hence, these discussions are taken at the discretion of the umpires. When you have a different set of umpires officiating different games, you can’t expect uniformity and consistency.
Click to expand...

I understand that. But there has been no notice of such by the current umpires.

Also, how come umpire enforce something if it's not in the rules? Marias Erasmus is obviously the cooler one of ICC current lot. So, not sure if it was coming from Umpire or someone higher up ICC.
 
Umpires are too dodgy in this wrld cup ball throwing incident they warned eng for the sake of it cus eng bowlers are useless at reverse swing, gayle incident, ystrdays dodgy rain inspections.

Seems like theres 1 rule fr windies/pak another rule for the rest!
 
AAli98 said:
Umpires are too dodgy in this wrld cup ball throwing incident they warned eng for the sake of it cus eng bowlers are useless at reverse swing, gayle incident, ystrdays dodgy rain inspections.

Seems like theres 1 rule fr windies/pak another rule for the rest!
Click to expand...

Exactly. England are pretty bad at reverse swing, except the the curran guy, or willie. But they both weren't playing. So, they had to set a precedent by asking england to not do that, so that it wont raise eye brows when they do that to Pakistan. I agreed with that.
 
adil79 said:
I understand that. But there has been no notice of such by the current umpires.

Also, how come umpire enforce something if it's not in the rules? Marias Erasmus is obviously the cooler one of ICC current lot. So, not sure if it was coming from Umpire or someone higher up ICC.
Click to expand...

The umpires have the authority to have a word with the players if they have a problem with something. Looks the umpires are okay with it today, but it is fine. These inconsistencies when it comes to officiating happens in every sport.
 
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