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[VIDEOS] Where does Nathan Lyon rank among the pantheon of Australian spinners?

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giri26

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Nathan Lyon recently went past Mitchell Johnson and Brett Lee to movie into fourth position in Australia’s all-time wicket takers list.

It is a fantastic achievement from Lyon who has been phenomenal for Australia over the last few years. When Australia were struggling to find a spinner after the retirement of legendary Shane Warne, Nathan Lyon took over the mantle admirably and has been one of the leading spinners in the world since his debut.

Lyon currently has 318 wickets in 80 Tests but where does he rank among some of the great spinners Australia have produced over the years?

Australia have produced some of the finest spinners world cricket has seen.

Shane Warne with 708 wickets in Tests is not only the best spinner Australia have produced but can also stake claim of being the greatest spinner in the history of the game.

Warne can be credited for making leg-spin fashionable again and was instrumental in Australia’s dominance for over a decade in all forms of the game.

An ODI world cup winner, Shane Warne was equally effective in limited overs formats as well. With more than 1000 international wickets Shane Warne is one of the greatest bowlers to have played cricket.

Richie Benaud and Clarrie Grimmett were great leggies as well in their own right.

Clarrie Grimmett was a fine leggie as well who played 37 Tests for Australia claiming 216 wickets at an average of 24.21. Grimmett was a fine bowler and averaged about 6 wickets a game in the 37 Tests he played.

Richie Benaud who played 63 Tests for Australia not only claimed 248 wickets at 27.03 but also made three Test centuries. He averaged 24.45 with the bat making him an effective bowling all-rounder for Australia.

The other leggie who probably would have played more Tests for Australia if he wasn’t born in the same era as the great Warne is Stuart MacGill.

MacGill was a brilliant spinner had a big leg break and a fantastic googly which distinguished him from the great Shane Warne. MacGill played 44 Tests for Australia claiming 208 wickets at 29.02.

Then there were Ashley Mallett (Ave 29.84) and Hugh Trumble (21.78) who were brilliant. Bill O'Rilley another leggie who played alongside Clarrie Grimmett was a brilliant bowler as well and averaged 22.59 in Tests.

Lyon, though an offie, has done extremely well and has evolved his bowling beautifully over the years.

Lyon’s performance on his tours to India and UAE recently prove how he has worked on his bowling and the lengths to become a more successful bowler in Asia.

Even though Lyon isn’t as glamorous as the above leggies, he still is one of the finest spinners Australia has produced. Where would you rank him as a spinner among the greats Australia have produced?
 
1. Warne
2. O'Reilly
3. Benaud
4. Grimmett
5. MacGill
6. Lyon

He is the best off-spinner ever produced by Australia, but he's below the 5 great wrist-spinners. Poor MacGill was born in the wrong era.
 
Australia Test bowler Nathan Lyon has joined Lancashire for the 2024 season.

The Off-spinner, who has taken 496 Test wickets, played for Worcestershire in 2017 and helped them win promotion from division two.
 
Lancashire Cricket is delighted to announce the overseas signing of experienced Australian international off spin bowler Nathan Lyon, for the 2024 season.

Lyon will be available for all competitions in 2024 after putting pen-to-paper on a contract for the duration of next summer.

A three-time Ashes winner and current ICC World Test champion, Lyon holds the record for the most Test wickets taken by an Australian finger spinner with 496 dismissals in 122 matches, at an average of 31, and has been named in the ICC Test Team of the Year on three occasions in 2018, ‘19 and ‘22.

He is also the fourth highest Test wicket taker ever as a spin bowler, and currently stands as the eighth highest Test wicket taker of all time.

In 202 career First-Class appearances to date, the New South Wales-born Lyon has claimed 733 wickets at an average of 33 and has taken a further 90 dismissals in List A cricket and 57 in T20 matches.

Lyon plays in the Sheffield Shield for his home state New South Wales and has also represented Adelaide Strikers, Sydney Sixers and most recently signed for Melbourne Renegades in Australia’s Big Bash League.

The off spinner had a brief taste of the County Championship with Worcestershire during the 2017 season, helping them to win the Division Two title.

Lyon will arrive at Emirates Old Trafford next year ahead of the new season starting in April, after completing the Australian 2023-2024 summer of cricket.
 
Eager anticipation for his 500th Test wicket.
 
Most impactful off spinner in the history of Test cricket after murli.

Can he surpass 600 Test wickets?
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Most impactful off spinner in the history of Test cricket after murli.

Can he surpass 600 Test wickets?
Click to expand...

He has 501 Test wickets now.

He is 36 years old.

I think he may end up with around 550 Test wickets. Can't see him play for much longer.
 
I liked what Kerry O'Keefe said about him: "He gets scared when he shaves; he's a nervous wreck when he is padded up and waiting to bat, but when he has the ball in hand, he turns from Mr. Bean into Thor!"
 
Asad T said:
I liked what Kerry O'Keefe said about him: "He gets scared when he shaves; he's a nervous wreck when he is padded up and waiting to bat, but when he has the ball in hand, he turns from Mr. Bean into Thor!"
Click to expand...
Indeed a true magincian with a ball.

Thor "lord of Thunders"
Lyon "Lord of Wonders"
 
He was never the most extravagant spinner, not the sort to turn it a mile or have 1000 different variations.
But what he does have is nagging consistency and a great ability to get inside the batsmen's head and bowl exactly the kind of ball they weren't expecting. A fantastic spinner that any team would kill to have.
 
The best off spinner of this generation, much better than Ashwin. Has taken wickets, fifers and won matches all across the world.
 
Comprehensively the second-best spinner in Australian cricket's history.

Warne was of course on another level.
 
1. Warne
2. O'Reilly
3. Grimmett
4. Lyon
5. Benaud (as bowler only)
6. McGill
 
I have never really been scared to see him in a bowling line up, but he just managed to get 500 wickets. I have a feeling thats how some teams around the world used to see him as, as the weak link. He has taken advantage of that and used it in his favour.

Kudos to him, putting his name in the history books as the 2nd best Spinner for Australia. Amazing!
 
Australia captain Pat Cummins believes Nathan Lyon is more than capable of extending his career and catching legendary spinner Shane Warne to become the country's leading Test wicket-taker.

Lyon collected his 500th Test scalp when he trapped Pakistan all-rounder Faheem Ashraf lbw on the fourth day of Australia's dominant ICC World Test Championship victory in Perth and the off-spinner now has Warne (708 wickets) and Glenn McGrath (563) within his sights as he enters the twilight of his career.

While Lyon refused to be drawn into discussions about whether he could surpass McGrath and then Warne and become Australia's highest ever wicket-taker, Cummins threw out a challenge to the 36-year-old just moments after he picked up his milestone on Sunday.

"Still got another four or five years at least, with 10 games a year," Cummins hinted as Lyon watched on.

"I still think you've got 40 or 50 Test matches, that's four or five years with 10 (matches) a year.

"Averaging four or five a game, so a couple of hundred (wickets) – that's 700."

Lyon showed his importance to Australia with a total of five wickets over the two innings as the reigning World Test Championship winners got their campaign back on track with a dominant 360-run victory over Pakistan in Perth.

The veteran off-spinner will fancy his chances of adding to his already imposing total of 501 Test scalps over the next six weeks when Australia play their remaining two Test matches against Pakistan and then host the West Indies in a two-game series in Adelaide and Brisbane all before the end of January.

Australia then travel to New Zealand at the end of February for a two-match series against their trans-Tasman rival, with a five-match battle against India for the Border-Gavaskar Trophy at the beginning of next summer likely to be pivotal in their bid to feature in a second consecutive World Test Championship final.

"I don't think it's any secret that he (Lyon) is probably the most important cog in our bowling line-up," Cummins said of the durable spinner.

"This game is probably a little bit different. But most games where he's bowling 30 overs a day, basically just put him down one end and he's not going to go for many runs. He's going to take a few wickets and then us quick bowlers can just rotate through the other end.

"No doubt he was missed over there in England (during this year’s Ashes series) for sure. As a captain, it makes it a lot easier knowing that bloke who has played 100-odd Test matches that knows his craft and can bowl pretty much in any conditions, you just let him get to work so it's great having him back. Yeah, another 500 to go."

www.icc-cricket.com

Cummins issues Warne challenge to Lyon following 500-wicket milestone

Australia captain Pat Cummins believes Nathan Lyon is more than capable of extending his career and catching legendary spinner Shane Warne to become the country's leading Test wicket-taker.
www.icc-cricket.com www.icc-cricket.com
 
Last Monetarist said:
1. Warne
2. O'Reilly
3. Benaud
4. Grimmett
5. MacGill
6. Lyon

He is the best off-spinner ever produced by Australia, but he's below the 5 great wrist-spinners. Poor MacGill was born in the wrong era.
Click to expand...
I tjinnge should be 4 tbh. He is damn good. But imagine Warne in drs era lol. 1000 wickets probably.
 
Australia has proven to be a formidable challenge for spin bowlers since Nathan Lyon entered the scene, with only one nation ranking ahead in terms of difficulty. Notably, Lyon's performance on home conditions stands out, boasting an average that is significantly lower than that of his counterparts in other spin-friendly conditions.


20231218_153736.jpg
 
Nathan Lyon has the most Test wickets in India, this is surprising as the Asian spin wizard Muralitharan is behind him.

6jJfTyY.jpg
 
Top 5 spinner for Aus, just based on his consistent performance for such a long time.
 
After a magnificent bowling display in the first inning against New Zealand, Nathan Lyon (4/43) came up with a brilliant batting performance scored a quickfire 41 off 46 deliveries and putting his team in a commanding position.

1709339970904.jpeg
 
9 Number of countries where Nathan Lyon has bagged a five-wicket haul in Test cricket: Sri Lanka, West Indies, India, Australia, South Africa, Bangladesh, England, Pakistan and New Zealand. Muthiah Muralidaran and Shane Warne are the only other players with a five-for in Test cricket in nine host countries.

1709506397131.png
 
Cricket Warrior said:
9 Number of countries where Nathan Lyon has bagged a five-wicket haul in Test cricket: Sri Lanka, West Indies, India, Australia, South Africa, Bangladesh, England, Pakistan and New Zealand. Muthiah Muralidaran and Shane Warne are the only other players with a five-for in Test cricket in nine host countries.

View attachment 142514
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I think Lyon can now be considered as an Aussie ATG.
 
Australian spinning legend Nathan Lyon has voiced his discontent with Cricket Australia over their decision to limit his County Championship stint in England this season. While speaking with local English media, he says:

"That’s the nature of the beast. It’s a business now and Cricket Australia have come over the top and said they want to manage me and hopefully extend my playing career for the next three to four years, whatever it may be."

"It’s disappointing because I signed here wanting to play all games and even play some T20 cricket and was thoroughly looking forward to that, But it is what it is and my hands are tied."
 
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A very good offspinner. Nothing more, nothing less. Maintained his skillset for a very long time and thrived also on minimal competition for long part of his career and Aus's extremely strong pace attack.

In his own era (2010s) probably the 5th best spinner behind Ashwin, Jadeja, Herath and Swann. If chucking is given a pass then 6th best behind Ajmal as well.

In his country's history he is well behind all 5 of the renowned Aussie legspinners in terms of skillset and legacy. He might be considered on par with Ashley Mallett.

While he has been now a 13 yr stalwart, I honestly believe Lyon was more lucky to be in the Aus team of his era than they are to have him. The likes of a Tim May would only have had a marginally lesser career if he was debuting for Aus in the same era and given the same backing and opportunities.
 
Australia’s Nathan Lyon has said that the chance to be on the same side as longstanding Ashes rival James Anderson was a 'big part' of his decision to sign up for a stint with the English county side Lancashire. Lyon mentioned this while speaking on a local English radio channel:

“That would be pretty amazing. I’d be lying if I said that opportunity coming around wasn’t a big part of the reason I signed."

“He’s one of the greatest, if not the greatest, fast bowler to have played the game,”

“I’ve had some incredible battles against him. I admire his skill, there’s nothing but respect from my end for what he’s been able to do for English cricket but also world cricket inspiring young boys and girls to play the game. If the opportunity comes around that I get to bowl in tandem with him and share a changing room with him it will be pretty special, so I’m looking forward to that,”
 
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'I thought they hated me' - Lyon on Ashes, Lancashire and Bazball​


Nathan Lyon was heartbroken, but wishes he had allowed himself the time to take it all in.

Ten months ago, the Australia off-spinner was limping down the Lord's pavilion steps and into Ashes folklore, his calf shredded and his series over.

At that moment, the home crowd stood in spine-tingling applause in a show of respect towards one of England's most formidable opponents.

"My wife, her parents and a good family friend were all in the crowd in tears," Lyon tells BBC Sport. "I probably didn't understand the level of respect that was shown there and then.

"That's something that I'm grateful to be able to look back on and reflect. I always thought the majority of England hates me."

Two days earlier, Lyon had collapsed to the turf, injured in innocuous fashion when retrieving the ball in the deep. He needed wife Emma to help him into the shower and to get dressed, but it never crossed his mind to not bat in Australia’s second innings.

"I was always batting," he says. "People have different jobs and they go to work when they are sick or unwell. There was no decision not to bat. It was always 'no matter how bad I am, I’m going to go'."

When Lyon flew home, Australia were 2-0 up and on the verge of a first Ashes series win in England since 2001.

As he watched through the night down under, the 36-year-old saw his team pegged back to 2-2, probably only saved from a 3-2 defeat by the Manchester rain.

While the impact of Australia losing the skills of one of the greatest finger spinners of all time was obvious, less tangible but equally important was losing Lyon's combative and competitive character.

"I do believe if I was here it would have been 4-0 to Australia," he says, almost proving the point.

Lyon is sitting at his adopted home of Old Trafford, now a county cricketer with Lancashire. Not quite a fox in English cricket's hen house, but certainly a double-agent.

For Lyon, a stint with the Red Rose is part of the plan to get him on the Ashes tour of 2027, when he will be 39. In return, county cricketers can learn from playing with and against one of the best in the world.

A particular spotlight fell on the Lyon-Lancs deal after left-arm spinner Tom Hartley's England breakthrough on the tour of India. These Aussies, coming over here, bowling our overs and taking our jobs.

But holding back Hartley is not Lyon's ambition.

"I'm not here to take Tom's spot," says Lyon. "I'm here to bowl with Tom in a partnership.

"Hopefully I'll be able to pass on a bit of knowledge here and there, but I'm learning from him as well."

There's a lot to unpack with Lyon. As a cricketer, he is a throwback, a classical finger spinner whose orthodox methods could be dropped into any era of the game. With 530 wickets, he is seventh on the all-time list of Test wicket-takers and a run to the 2027 Ashes would push him much higher.

Lyon is the former groundsman who became an Australian legend, a man who will be "mates for life" with Joe Root after the time they spent playing Adelaide club cricket together.

Well known to be a nervous player, Lyon is always assured in front of a microphone. He talks of being "humble" as a result of a country upbringing in rural New South Wales and the values instilled in him by his parents.

But he also famously said he wanted to "end the careers" of England players before the 2017-18 Ashes and believes the bowling quartet he forms with pacers Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood is the "best in the world".

With David Warner gone, Lyon is most likely to be Australia's attack dog in the media and, in November, he aimed a foul-mouthed attack at England's divisive 'Bazball' approach.

Even now, Lyon is dismissing the England camp's claims that they don't like the term that defines their tactical set-up in the Brendon McCullum era.

"Yeah they do," he says.

"I don't mind hearing about it. It's their type of cricket. I just feel like we've been playing entertaining cricket for a number of years now, we just don't need to call it a name to justify it.

"I've seen David Warner score centuries in a session well and truly before Bazball was invented.

"It's up to them to keep doing it now. They've literally got to go at six runs an over otherwise they're not playing Bazball. If you're going to talk about it, you've got to do it."

There was a time when Australian cricketers would pop over to the UK every four years and hand out an Ashes walloping without breaking sweat.

Lyon, along with the likes of Warner, Cummins, Starc, Steve Smith, Michael Clarke, Brad Haddin and Shane Watson are now among a generation of highly successful Aussies that have never outright won the urn in the UK.

For Lyon, the calf injury of 2023 came after a 2019 when his fumbled run-out of Jack Leach probably cost his side a series win.

"I have been part of two teams that retained the Ashes here, let's not forget about that," he points out. "But, yeah, 100% the bucket-list dreams for me are to win Test series here and in India."

In Australia, it's a different story. In three series, Lyon is 13-0 up on England, who travel down under at the end of 2025 for what is likely to be the finale of the Ben Stokes and McCullum regime.

"I haven't really thought about that Ashes series," says Lyon. "We've got India at home this year and that is one of the biggest series you can be involved in.

"Then again, 18 months doesn't seem that far away. It's going to be special."

The last time they saw him, he was a wounded animal. Next time, England will be in the Lyon's den.

www.bbc.com

Nathan Lyon: Australia spinner on Ashes, Bazball, Lord's and Lancashire

Nathan Lyon hopes to make a big impression for Lancashire, but the Australia great has unfinished Ashes business too.
www.bbc.com
 
Australia’s Nathan Lyon achieved a rare Test cricket milestone on Saturday during the first Test against Sri Lanka in Galle. On Day 4, Lyon dismissed Dinesh Chandimal twice in the same session. At 10:13 AM local time, he trapped Chandimal LBW, and following Australia's decision to enforce the follow-on, Lyon removed him again at 12:03 PM. In response to Australia’s 654/6 declared, Sri Lanka was bowled out for 165, with Chandimal top-scoring for the hosts with 72 runs. Australia went on to win by an innings and 242 runs.

Lyon becomes just the sixth bowler in history to dismiss a batter twice in a single session. Previous bowlers to achieve this feat include Alec Bedser (Wazir Mohammad, 1954), Keith Boyce (Alan Knott, 1973), Irfan Pathan (Mohammad Rafique, 2006), Graeme Swann (Salman Butt, 2010), and Prabath Jayasuriya (Lorcan Tucker, 2023).

Additionally, Lyon has now become the highest overseas wicket-taker in Sri Lanka, surpassing India’s Ravichandran Ashwin, who had previously taken 38 wickets on the island.
 
Most Test wickets by non-Asian bowlers in Asia:

150 - Nathan Lyon
127 - Shane Warne
98 - Daniel Vettori
92 - James Anderson
92 - Dale Steyn
 
sweep_shot said:
Yeah. Definitely.
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Wrong as usual. Like always.
Delusional lmao.

He is not even better than jadeja let alone ashwin.

He is vastly overrated. His record in India and in very spin friendly condition shows his lack of quality.

He is also a cheater. Drops the ball abds chest and throws the ball at sundars head. He is not a patch in prime ashwin. Not to mention ashwin being a level about in batting. And that’s with a physique of an uncle.

Lyon is just lucky he plays with 2 really good fast bowlers and one that’s wayward but leaves marks for him to exploit. He is a one dimensional bowler. That he excels at I agree.
 
Second World Test Championship Final victory on Lyon's agenda

The Australian veteran has no plans on retirement just yet and wants to help the team win another WTC Final.

Australia spinner Nathan Lyon is keen to keep playing and help his side win a second ICC World Test Championship title.

Lyon played a major role in Australia's first victory in the World Test Championship Final against India in 2023 and was part of the side that fell to South Africa in the decider at Lord's last month.

While the final of the next edition of the World Test Championship is still two years away, Lyon has no thoughts of retiring just yet despite the fact he recently handed over the task of leading Australia’s victory song to keeper Alex Carey.

The 37-year-old still has plenty he wants to achieve, with away series victories in India and England and another World Test Championship title right at the top of his list.

"I've always said I want to win away in India. I want to win away in England," Lyon said.

"We've got that opportunity in a couple of years' time, but we've also got to take it Test by Test and make sure that we're doing everything here in West Indies right.

"Then we've got a massive summer at home with the Ashes.

"But another World Test Championship Final would be on my cards for sure."

A key figure in Australia's mace-winning 2023 World Test Championship campaign, Nathan Lyon explains the competition's significance to him.

Lyon currently has a total of 556 Test wickets to his name, which is third on the list for Australian bowlers behind fellow spinner Shane Warne (708) and former quick Glenn McGrath (563).

With two Tests remaining in the West Indies this month and the visit from England later this year still to come for the Aussies in 2025, there's every chance Lyon overtakes McGrath quickly and closes in on Warne's magical mark in the coming months.

But Lyon is not focused on potentially becoming Australia's greatest wicket taker and wants to focus on winning games of Test cricket for his side.

"Warney's a long way away," Lyon said.

"And in my eyes, he's the greatest to ever play the game. I'm just lucky to be part of a pretty special cricket team at the moment. We're on our way to becoming a great cricket team, we not there (yet) as I always say. But to be part of this bowling attack and play my role is special. That's the reason why I keep playing."

ICC
 
Hyder said:
Not ashwin
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How? He literally put performs him in virtually every sena conditon except England? Infact bcci doesnt even trust ashwin in sone conditions?

He played 1 match in NZ which was a massacre? Sa and Australia was a massacre. England was the only conditon he did well in?

Lyon's record is hindered by Pakistan and iae only which is deeply unfair considering Pakistan was preparing roads where everyone was avg 70 to 100 with Brooks Bradman avg 150?

And UAE isnt fair, all Pakistani batters were literally designed to counter spin? Not taking anything away from Pakistan as they were a fortress team and every other side fell to spin but that side is an atg vs spin? Ashwin would have gotten mauled?

I dont take ashwin's performance in India or Sri Lanka seriously, who would? He has had one golden run in England and thats it.
 
mominsaigol said:
How? He literally put performs him in virtually every sena conditon except England? Infact bcci doesnt even trust ashwin in sone conditions?

He played 1 match in NZ which was a massacre? Sa and Australia was a massacre. England was the only conditon he did well in?

Lyon's record is hindered by Pakistan and iae only which is deeply unfair considering Pakistan was preparing roads where everyone was avg 70 to 100 with Brooks Bradman avg 150?

And UAE isnt fair, all Pakistani batters were literally designed to counter spin? Not taking anything away from Pakistan as they were a fortress team and every other side fell to spin but that side is an atg vs spin? Ashwin would have gotten mauled?

I dont take ashwin's performance in India or Sri Lanka seriously, who would? He has had one golden run in England and thats it.
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With this analogy you can prove anything you want brother. Ashwin performed but it was just eng
Lyon underperformed but u vant say that because pitch was bad and other time the batsman were very good.
Lyon looked as useless as ashwin ever looked in sena when he played wtc final. He had a patch and he failed aus. He failed them in bgt.
 
Bewal Express said:
On dust bowls, otherwise probably better. Ashwin and Jadeja are solid bowlers with inflated statistics due to dust bowls.
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Wrong.
Ashwin averages 30, away from home Nathan Lyon averages 29.5, so not much difference.

When both of them played together in a match, Ashwin averages 29.2 to Lyons 32.89.

Moreover, when both of them played together in a match in Australia, Ashwin averaged 42.42 to Lyons 42.59, thus beating Lyon both home and away when both got the same pitch.

So basically, Ashwin has better overall average, similar away average (despite India being away for lyon), better averages when both played together plus better average when both played together in Aus.

Ashwin is the clear winner here which makes him the greatest spinner of those generation.
 
Bewal Express said:
On dust bowls, otherwise probably better. Ashwin and Jadeja are solid bowlers with inflated statistics due to dust bowls.
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Incorrect. Ashwin outperformed Lyon in Australia when they played against each other. Of course Lyon’s overall home record will be better because he can cash in against weaker nations. But Ashwin has dominated some of the top batters in those 2018 and 2020 tours. They both have similar away record but Ashwin’s overall impact is simply unbeatable.

As spinners - 1. Ashwin, 2. Lyon, 3. Jadeja

As test cricketers -1.Jadeja, 2. Ashwin, 3. Lyon

:inti
 
@Bewal Express ,

The key difference is that Ashwin has a larger repertoire: carrom ball, slider, leg-cutter, under-cutter, reverse drift, etc. He constantly innovates, adjusts angles and bowling pace for different batters (e.g., how he sets up left-handers vs. right-handers differently)

On other hand, Lyon relies mostly on bounce and overspin, with less variation.
 
Hyder said:
With this analogy you can prove anything you want brother. Ashwin performed but it was just eng
Lyon underperformed but u vant say that because pitch was bad and other time the batsman were very good.
Lyon looked as useless as ashwin ever looked in sena when he played wtc final. He had a patch and he failed aus. He failed them in bgt.
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That is not what I'm stating. Lyon is on his last legs in the same way ashwin is on his last legs and retired in test.

If you look at their careers, Lyon has outperformed ashwin in all conditons excluding England where ashwin has been better.

Sure ashwin has outperformed Ashwin in some conditions like Sri Lanka but thats due to playing their more while lyon didnt play their much.

Ashwin has outperformed him in India but we all that story.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Wrong.
Ashwin averages 30, away from home Nathan Lyon averages 29.5, so not much difference.

When both of them played together in a match, Ashwin averages 29.2 to Lyons 32.89.

Moreover, when both of them played together in a match in Australia, Ashwin averaged 42.42 to Lyons 42.59, thus beating Lyon both home and away when both got the same pitch.

So basically, Ashwin has better overall average, similar away average (despite India being away for lyon), better averages when both played together plus better average when both played together in Aus.

Ashwin is the clear winner here which makes him the greatest spinner of those generation.
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Ab Fan said:
Incorrect. Ashwin outperformed Lyon in Australia when they played against each other. Of course Lyon’s overall home record will be better because he can cash in against weaker nations. But Ashwin has dominated some of the top batters in those 2018 and 2020 tours. They both have similar away record but Ashwin’s overall impact is simply unbeatable.

As spinners - 1. Ashwin, 2. Lyon, 3. Jadeja

As test cricketers -1.Jadeja, 2. Ashwin, 3. Lyon

:inti
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Sometimes I wonder if you simply have 4 tabs open.

One tab for cricinfo, one tab for alt account, one tab for PP and one tab for ashwin and jadeja fan art.
 
Nathan Lyon will always be remembered as the second best spinner of this generation behind the ATG Ashwin, who not only was better with the ball but also thrice the batsman.

Lyon will always be the Scottie Pippen to Ashwins Jordan.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Nathan Lyon will always be remembered as the second best spinner of this generation behind the ATG Ashwin, who not only was better with the ball but also thrice the batsman.

Lyon will always be the Scottie Pippen to Ashwins Jordan.
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But where is Ashwin atm. Retired after the butchering received at the hands of Travis Head :vk2 .

We need a Travis Head meme tbh. I'm getting sick of using Kohli memes.
 
mominsaigol said:
That is not what I'm stating. Lyon is on his last legs in the same way ashwin is on his last legs and retired in test.

If you look at their careers, Lyon has outperformed ashwin in all conditons excluding England where ashwin has been better.

Sure ashwin has outperformed Ashwin in some conditions like Sri Lanka but thats due to playing their more while lyon didnt play their much.

Ashwin has outperformed him in India but we all that story.
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What story? Ashwin has outbowled everyone on indian pitches. Lyon played why didnt he have same impact? Now u will say india play spin better as u said for 50 plus avg of lyon in uae. Batsman doesnt matter then when u are so bad where other spinners have dominated.

Looking at major sides: england pakistan(uae) india sa nz aus
Lyon avg more than 30 in 5 of these seven places and he avg 40 or more in 3 of these.

Sorry but you cant have lyon over Ashwin if u wanted a modern test xi. Ashwin gets picked at 8.
 
Hyder said:
What story? Ashwin has outbowled everyone on indian pitches. Lyon played why didnt he have same impact? Now u will say india play spin better as u said for 50 plus avg of lyon in uae. Batsman doesnt matter then when u are so bad where other spinners have dominated.

Looking at major sides: england pakistan(uae) india sa nz aus
Lyon avg more than 30 in 5 of these seven places and he avg 40 or more in 3 of these.

Sorry but you cant have lyon over Ashwin if u wanted a modern test xi. Ashwin gets picked at 8.
Click to expand...
Ofcourse he will outbowl everyone in India? He has played the most? Has the most experience on this pitch and its his home den? What sort of logic is that?

By this logic Travis Head and Warner are greater then 90% of test batters in history because they always outperform others in home den but otherwise they aren't that great.

The likes of sehwag are clearly > even if Warner would outbat Sehwag in aus?
 
mominsaigol said:
Ofcourse he will outbowl everyone in India? He has played the most? Has the most experience on this pitch and its his home den? What sort of logic is that?

By this logic Travis Head and Warner are greater then 90% of test batters in history because they always outperform others in home den but otherwise they aren't that great.

The likes of sehwag are clearly > even if Warner would outbat Sehwag in aus?
Click to expand...
When ashwin and lyon played together in aus. Did lyon outbowl ashwin the same way? Or was he even better than him?
 
Hyder said:
When ashwin and lyon played together in aus. Did lyon outbowl ashwin the same way? Or was he even better than him?
Click to expand...
In aus Lyon throughout his career has been better with Ashwin being better then India. That is usually the norm unless certain exceptions apply.

We can agree to disagree. I will agree on thing though, Ashwin is overall a better cricketer as hes contributed with the bat and provided more memorable moments to his team then Lyon has
 
Lyon has reached 558 Test wickets.

Just 6 wickets away from surpassing McGrath.
 
mominsaigol said:
In aus Lyon throughout his career has been better with Ashwin being better then India. That is usually the norm unless certain exceptions apply.

We can agree to disagree. I will agree on thing though, Ashwin is overall a better cricketer as hes contributed with the bat and provided more memorable moments to his team then Lyon has
Click to expand...

As I already posted Ashwin averages better than Lyon when both played in a match in Aus.

Ashwin has actually helped India win two series in Aus too. Nathan Lyon had absolutely zero role in winning BGT 25.

@Hyder your question is legit and the answer is no, even though Lyon played more in Aus he still got outbowled by Ashwin in his own backyard when both played together. Ashwin ended up helping us win two series while Lyon has had absolutely zero impact in BGT 24-25.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jeeteshssaxena said:
As I already posted Ashwin averages better than Lyon when both played in a match in Aus.

Ashwin has actually helped India win two series in Aus too. Nathan Lyon had absolutely zero role in winning BGT 25.

@Hyder your question is legit and the answer is no, even though Lyon played more in Aus he still got outbowled by Ashwin in his own backyard when both played together. Ashwin ended up helping us win two series while Lyon has had absolutely zero impact in BGT 24-25.
Click to expand...
I already told you I don't care about your cricinfo hooligan behaviour.

Get 2 POTW's and then we talk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
LOL at people comparing Ashwin to Lyon.

Lyon is obviously a level above. :inti

Ashwin had the luxury to play a lot on turning Indian pitches. Lyon didn't have that luxury.
 
Lyon played on SENA tracks more... So his wicket-taking talent becomes more difficult to rise but he still took more than 550 test wickets.. That is skill...
 
Hyder said:
What story? Ashwin has outbowled everyone on indian pitches. Lyon played why didnt he have same impact? Now u will say india play spin better as u said for 50 plus avg of lyon in uae. Batsman doesnt matter then when u are so bad where other spinners have dominated.

Looking at major sides: england pakistan(uae) india sa nz aus
Lyon avg more than 30 in 5 of these seven places and he avg 40 or more in 3 of these.

Sorry but you cant have lyon over Ashwin if u wanted a modern test xi. Ashwin gets picked at 8.
Click to expand...
You are arguing with a genz who watches his games on statsguru. No point talking sense to him, he only started watching cricket 2-3 years ago. :inti
 
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