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[VIDEOS] Why is Nathan Lyon not as respected as his figures warrant?

He bowled ok, Paine & the others missed a few chances off his bowling which meant he never really got rolling in a couple of games.

We needed a bit more output from Lyon, but realistically an off spinner was not expected to bowl us to victory in a home series vs India. Lyon's job was to chip in the odd wicket & maintain pressure for the quicks to do the demolition. Both parties were short of the mark.
 
wrongun said:
He bowled ok, Paine & the others missed a few chances off his bowling which meant he never really got rolling in a couple of games.

We needed a bit more output from Lyon, but realistically an off spinner was not expected to bowl us to victory in a home series vs India. Lyon's job was to chip in the odd wicket & maintain pressure for the quicks to do the demolition. Both parties were short of the mark.
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Is he over the hill do you think?

I heard Warne was yelling at him for not having close catchers up. Was Paine not attacking enough on the last day?
 
MP2011 said:
Lyon is yet to bowl a single no-ball in his 100 tests till date. Wow! Is this true?

Don't think there is any other bowler in history who is yet to bowl a single no-ball despite playing these many tests.
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Not 100 tests, but Ashwin is yet to bowl a no-ball after 74 tests and he definitely bowls more overs per innings than Lyon. Remember this being talked about by commentators in the Ind-NZ series last year.

As per this link (https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/542044-most-balls-bowled-in-test-matches-without-bowling-a-no-ball) even Swann never bowled a no-ball in his test career.

In ODIs and T20s I think every bowler in history must have bowled multiple no-balls.
 
Robert said:
Is he over the hill do you think?

I heard Warne was yelling at him for not having close catchers up. Was Paine not attacking enough on the last day?
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No not over the hill. Physically Lyon should be good as gold for at least a few more seasons. Having a traditional action means there's no unusual stress on shoulder/wrist/elbow & he was a slightly late starter to full time cricket so his body is pretty good & he seems motivated as ever.

All bowlers have an off series here or there. I'm more worried Paine is over the hill as a keeper. Lyons dip in form correlates pretty directly with Paine missing 3-4 chances off him this series just that I saw. Let's say an in form keeper grabs 2 of those & they get Lyon on a roll & at tail/fresh batsman & then he gets another 1 or 2 then all of a sudden it's quite a decent series for him.

Paine missed as many chances in that series as perhaps the previous 2 years. He's 36. About the same age when Gilchrist's keeping took a sharp decline so he retired. And Ian Healy was 35 when the same happened to him. It's the age when you maybe don't suddenly wind back to your best form after a dip...

The captaincy... I don't know. It wasn't stellar this series. He had a pretty serious set of weapons at his disposal and India got just as much output from their makeshift attack (Siraj looks a good find. Nice outswing bowler might be handy in the UK/NZ too). I wouldn't put too much stock in where he had one fielder here or there unless it was really glaring and I assume by 100 Tests Lyon is getting the field he bloody wants thanks skipper.

I was more annoyed at the length they bowled- they forgot there was a set of stumps there to aim at. I love a bouncer barrage, absolutely a valid tactic or choice for one bowler or one batsman who hates it. But not everyone for an entire session almost.

Green didn't seem to know what he was supposed to do. Looked like he'd just been told to ease himself in & leave it all up to the big boys but he needed to be ripping in trying to influence the game.
 
Indian team have a nice tribute to Gazza, well deserved. Champion bowler of our generation.
 
After 100 Tests he averages 32 and is a Genuine Number 10 Batsman.

It’s only the lack of any alternatives which have given him such a long career.

Lyon’s career was extended by what happened in Durban in 2018. Mitch Marsh scored 96, Lyon bowled well in the First Innings, and Australia won comfortably.

But Fanie De Villiers detected that the ball was being doctored, and he ordered the SuperSport cameramen to follow it everywhere it went. Two Tests later they caught Cameron Bancroft sandpapering it.

That exposure meant that the practice had to end. And suddenly Mitch Marsh no longer had the tools to bowl 15 overs per day.

Which meant that Australia no longer had a viable four seamer attack. And suddenly they needed Lyon to bowl 30 overs per day so that the three main quicks only had to bowl 20 each.

That’s why Lyon has lasted 100 Tests. On Days 1-4 he can bowl 30 gentle overs for 60 runs, and permit a 3 pacer attack.

I remain unconvinced. I’d rather have Mitchell Marsh in the Faheem Ashraf role bowling 15 of those 30 overs and a decent all-rounder bowling 15 overs of spin.

I’d take a Washington Sundar or Ravi Jadeja over Lyon in SENA every time: even though their bowling average would be 36 instead of 32 their batting average would be 33 instead of 12.
 
Lyon has been a great servant for Aussies.
But he has choked a bit on 5th day wickets, where he is supposed to be a force and take the game away.
Not sure, but he is still the second best spinner in the world for me after Ashwin.
He will play for 2-3 more years and other options in Shield are really rubbish.
Some news article in Australia was saying Swepson.. lol.. he is rubbish and was trashed by India in the tour match.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Not 100 tests, but Ashwin is yet to bowl a no-ball after 74 tests and he definitely bowls more overs per innings than Lyon. Remember this being talked about by commentators in the Ind-NZ series last year.

As per this link (https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/542044-most-balls-bowled-in-test-matches-without-bowling-a-no-ball) even Swann never bowled a no-ball in his test career.

In ODIs and T20s I think every bowler in history must have bowled multiple no-balls.
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Didn't know this. Good to see Ashwin in that list. Hope it remains that way. There is no excuse for any spinner to bowl a no-ball in tests.
 
Junaids said:
After 100 Tests he averages 32 and is a Genuine Number 10 Batsman.

It’s only the lack of any alternatives which have given him such a long career.

Lyon’s career was extended by what happened in Durban in 2018. Mitch Marsh scored 96, Lyon bowled well in the First Innings, and Australia won comfortably.

But Fanie De Villiers detected that the ball was being doctored, and he ordered the SuperSport cameramen to follow it everywhere it went. Two Tests later they caught Cameron Bancroft sandpapering it.

That exposure meant that the practice had to end. And suddenly Mitch Marsh no longer had the tools to bowl 15 overs per day.

Which meant that Australia no longer had a viable four seamer attack. And suddenly they needed Lyon to bowl 30 overs per day so that the three main quicks only had to bowl 20 each.

That’s why Lyon has lasted 100 Tests. On Days 1-4 he can bowl 30 gentle overs for 60 runs, and permit a 3 pacer attack.

I remain unconvinced. I’d rather have Mitchell Marsh in the Faheem Ashraf role bowling 15 of those 30 overs and a decent all-rounder bowling 15 overs of spin.

I’d take a Washington Sundar or Ravi Jadeja over Lyon in SENA every time: even though their bowling average would be 36 instead of 32 their batting average would be 33 instead of 12.
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Yeah that sounds great mate until you examine that Lyon averages just the same after Durban as he did before & bowls just as many overs after Durban as he did before & there are no sudden jumps in his output except in years with more Asian tours...

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/272279.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling
 
He is decent quality, nothing great about him. He stands out because of the garbage test spinners around the world, except India
 
shah_1 said:
He is decent quality, nothing great about him. He stands out because of the garbage test spinners around the world, except India
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He stands out because SENA has so few spinners of any variety to boast about- let alone finger spinners.

England: precisely 1 good spinner in the last 2 or 3 decades. I'll allow Tuffnell as a "decent" spinner but he wasn't "good" overall. Swann was a nice classical offspinner & a decent all round cricketer- a bit in the Jadeja mould with slightly better bowl & slightly worse bat. Monty? Decent, not good.

NZ: precisely 1 good spinner in the last 2 or 3 decades- Vettori. Even he is borderline for "good". became a decent allrounder toward the end.

SA: apart from Paul Adams who was a bit of a novelty, absolutely nothing until Tahir in LOI formats so he doesn't really count for Tests.

Oz: the exception as we had a strong leg spinning tradition. 1 ATG & 2 good spinners (Lyon & McGill) in 2 or 3 decades. Tim May was "decent".

When you consider Pakistan alone went from Mushtaq, to Saqlain, to Ajmal, to Yasir (who was "good" until a couple of years)
India Kumble, Harbajan, Jadeja, Ashwin (with a brief period where they only had a Venkatapat Raju perhaps for a year or two).
Sri Lanka had an ATG Murali & then a good spinner in Herath.
Even Bangers produced Shakib who is better than Vettori.

Spin had a golden age with Kumble, Warne, Murali & then what seemed to be a "mystery spin" brief era of Ajmal, Mendis & co.

He gets a lot of respect in Oz because I grew up honestly thinking that finger spinners were just a waste of time to be belted in Australia & could never succeed here. That was honestly the thinking of most cricketers here- off spin was a bit of a weak joke. He changed that at least.
 
Lyon still waiting for that elusive 400th test wicket, but England have generally treated him with respect during this test:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/q3ka03" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Last Monetarist said:
Lyon still waiting for that elusive 400th test wicket, but England have generally treated him with respect during this test:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/q3ka03" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
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Are there any stats for the overs between his 399th wicket and now?
 
He’s a top bowler but he is not “fashionable” or “exotic” and he does not have any flashy mystery deliveries. Hence he is not hyped as a spinner. But he’s a great guy to have in the side and he adds a lot. Perhaps not in his best form at the moment but he will turn it around.
 
Used to be good few years ago but now he is not even poor man's ashwin.
 
street cricketer said:
Are there any stats for the overs between his 399th wicket and now?
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Nathan Lyon now has spent 1200 deliveries in the 390s.
Nathan Lyon took his 390th Test wicket three weeks before the WHO declared Covid-19 a Public Health Emergency of International Concern.
 
Seems like the 400 mark is pulling him back. Hasn't been in good enough form since last year.

Reminds me how Steyn was chasing that 422 mark. It took him around 2 years or more before finally getting there. Would get injured too often.
 
He will probably take 5 wickets against England now. Thanks for the multiple jinx chaps. LOL
 
Spinners are not magicians especially on tracks that don't suit them very well. YEa there was turn. But just a regular turn that you can negotiate easily. Not spitting turns. They have to bowl a lot of overs to set up a batsman on unhelpful pitches.
 
Congrats to Nathan Lyon. At the start of his career not even Lyon himself could have imagined that he would go on to to take 400 wickets and be number 3 behind Warne and Mcgrath in the Aussie all time wicket takers list.

That is esteemed company to be in and not bad at all from a former groundsman!
 
Great work Lyon. Have always been his fan, very difficult to get away, more so in Australia.
 
TeymurBlake said:
He's not in form, surprised not another spinner was considered.
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Pretty hard to throw away a guy with 400 test wickets on temporary form. You'd want to be sure it's permanent decline.

The other spinner in the squad - Swepson the leggy- has matured as a bowler now but is untried at Test level and the way the domestic season has been, just hasn't had much of a chance to push his claims in the last month or so either.

In those circumstances, no way at all Lyon would be dropped before Test 1 of an Ashes series. He'd need to play very poorly for 2-3 matches to get dropped at all. I doubt we'll even see Swepson in Sydney, although Cam Green does raise his chances somewhat (being a seam allrounder).
 
More on why Mitchell Starc is mostly there to create rough for Lyon in the fourth innings:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/br04au" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Veteran Australian bowler Nathan Lyon finally claimed his 400th Test wicket as the classical off-spinner joined the special '400 club' in the longest format on Day 4 of the ongoing Ashes series opener between Joe Root-led England and hosts Australia at The Gabba. Sparking a turnaround for the Baggy Greens on Saturday, Australian spinner Lyon finally bagged his long-awaited 400th Test wicket by dismissing England's Dawid Malan in his second over at Brisbane.

Lyon got the better of Malan as the England batter departed after a gritty 82 on the penultimate day of the Ashes Test at Brisbane. Playing his 101st Test match for the Aussies, spin wizard Lyon became the 16th bowler to claim 400 wickets in the longest and oldest format of the game. Interestingly, Australia's Lyon has also joined veteran spinners Muttiah Muralitharan and Ravichandran Ashwin in an elite.

Lyon, who made his Test debut for Australia against Sri Lanka at Galle in 2011, is the fourth off-spinner to take 400 wickets in Test cricket's history. Lyon is only behind Muralidharan (800 wickets in 133 matches), Ashwin (427 in 81), Harbhajan Singh (417 in 103) in the special list of off-spinners with 400 Test wickets.

Lyon is also the third Australian bowler to take 400 Test wickets after icons Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath. After joining the 400 club, the 34-year-old had set his sights on surpassing West Indian great Curtley Ambrose in the all-time Test wicket-takers list. The former Windies bowler had scalped 405 wickets in the longest format.

Legendary spinner Muralitharan leads the all-time Test wicket-takers chart with 800 scalps to his name. The Sri Lankan icon is followed by former Australian spinner Warne who bagged 708 wickets in the iconic Test career. England's James Anderson is third on the list with 632 wickets. Anderson is followed by Stuart Broad who is sixth on the list with 524 wickets. Lyon's bowling heroics on Day 4 of the 1st Test had paved the way for Australia to clinch the Ashes opener at Brisbane.

https://www.timesnownews.com/sports...an-shane-warne-and-ravichandran-ashwin/839571
 
Fabulous achievement, he should be massively proud of what he has achieved, considering he played most of his tests in Australia where even the greatest of off spinners including murali have struggled big time.
 
<b>Passing 400 Test wickets yesterday, Nathan Lyon has truly filled the void left by Australian spin royalty.</b>

At 9:45am local time yesterday, Nathan Lyon became the fourth right-arm off-spinner, and the third Australian after Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath, to reach the milestone.

“It hasn’t really hit me yet, to be honest,” Lyon confessed after Australia took a 1-0 series lead.

“It’s something that I’m very proud of, there’s no doubt about that.”

Already waiting 325 days between wickets 399 and 400, Lyon, perhaps undeservedly, went one more night short of the magic number, unknowingly dismissed Dawid Malan caught and bowled on day three. Unaware Malan gloved the ball back to him following through, Lyon and Australia chose not to refer decision. Malan at the end of day’s play admitted he may have been let off the hook.

Despite the missed opportunity, Lyon broke through early on day four in a twist of fate almost poetic in its script, removing Malan in another close-in opportunity, with the left-hander hitting a catch to Marnus Labuschagne for the milestone.

Few could have predicted Lyon’s career trajectory, not only when handed his Test cap in Galle ten years ago, but further back during his days of toil for South Australia. Averaging 45 with the ball in first-class cricket when called up, Lyon was famously on the books as a groundsman at the Adelaide Oval.

Spinners representing Australia at Test level at the time struggled to hold down a spot in the XI. After Shane Warne and Stuart MacGill, a host of bowlers tried their luck to no avail. From Brad Hogg, Beau Casson and Cameron White, to the likes of Jason Krejza, Nathan Hauritz, Bryce McGain, Xavier Doherty and Michael Beer. In 2010, a young Steve Smith debuted as a bowler, listed at No.8 in the batting order.

No spinner truly nailed the audition, and Australia looked to Sri Lanka, fearful of further spin failure. Krejza struggled on an Australia A tour of Zimbabwe, forcing the selectors’ hand to take Beer and Lyon, neither of whom had Cricket Australia contracts at the time.

Lyon, at that stage 23, won the battle in the nets by impressing Ricky Ponting. Transfixed by his release, natural bounce and the revolutions imparted on the ball, the Australian batting legend hailed Lyon’s wrist angle, comparing it to Harbhajan, a man that had the wood over Ponting in their battles over the years.

Ponting’s word carried weight even after giving the captaincy to Michael Clarke, and his endorsement was the deciding factor in his selection.

Fifteen overs into Sri Lanka’s first innings in Galle, Lyon was thrown the ball, though not even Ponting could have seen what would happen next. At the other end stood Kumar Sangakkara, already with close to 8,500 Test runs under his belt by that point, and at an average of 55 to boot.

Landing his first just inside the footmarks outside the off-stump from around the wicket, Lyon’s off-break brought a prodding Sangakkara forward, edging to Clarke, taking a one-handed catch at first slip. Lyon finished with 5/34 in the innings, and hasn’t looked back since.

Of his 403 Test wickets, Lyon has claimed 204 at 32.87 at home, and 199 wickets outside of Australia at 31.26. Lyon’s consistency is only further accentuated when his haul is broken down by match innings. Making the most of the drier state of 4th innings wickets, Lyon averages 30.40 with the ball, though the figures only moves up to 32.81 in the first innings of matches, even on harder, fresh surfaces.

Lyon’s record at home, in comparison to other spinners in Australian conditions, sets him apart. In comparison to that home average of 32.87, other spinners playing in the matches average 63.

Lyon’s success has not been down to variations, but rather a metronomic consistency. Ashwin’s carrom ball and Murali’s doosra have bewildered some of the game’s best, though Lyon, in a similar vein to Harbhajan, has made his mark through subtleties in bounce of his conventional off-spin delivery. Even some of the world’s best have failed to answer Lyon’s questions. Cheteshwar Pujara has fallen to the off-spinner ten times, with Alastair Cook falling to Lyon on eight occasions. Joe Root and Virat Kohli have fallen victim seven times each.

The man from Young in rural New South Wales has not escaped criticism, most notably after a quiet Border-Gavaskar series last summer. Lyon claimed just nine wickets across the series, at an average of 55.11, a far cry from his best.

While hitting back strongly with four key second innings wickets against England, and a glittering career record next to his name, Lyon feels he still has a point to prove, cognizant of the challenges that he’ll continue to face as Australia's frontline spinner.

“The next wicket is always the hardest one to get.”

“That’s my mindset, and that’s not going to change.”

For Pat Cummins though, Lyon’s class remains permanent. First as a foil for his spells of fast-bowling, he is now a dependable option for the recently-appointed captain.

“He’s just about our most important bowler. (He’s a) wicket-taking option, but also for the amount of overs he bowls.”

“I think he bowled without luck (on day three) especially to the left-handers, and came out (on day four) and showed why he’s one of the greatest of all time.”
 
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td] Nathan Lyon [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Bowl Av [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]overall [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]403 [/td][td]32.07 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Australia [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]204 [/td][td]32.87 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Bangladesh [/td][td]2017-2017 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]14.31 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in England [/td][td]2013-2019 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]31.62 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in India [/td][td]2013-2017 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]30.58 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in New Zealand [/td][td]2016-2016 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]22.6 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in South Africa [/td][td]2011-2018 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]28 [/td][td]39.75 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Sri Lanka [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]33.58 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in U.A.E. [/td][td]2014-2018 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]53.8 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in West Indies [/td][td]2012-2015 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]23.38 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]204 [/td][td]32.87 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away [/td][td]2011-2019 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]184 [/td][td]29.42 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]neutral [/td][td]2014-2018 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]53.8 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]won match [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]228 [/td][td]26.62 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]lost match [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]34.74 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]drawn match [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]47 [/td][td]51.29 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Test spinners with 200+ wickets

[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) [/td][td]1992-2010 [/td][td]133 [/td][td]800 [/td][td]22.72 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SK Warne (AUS) [/td][td]1992-2007 [/td][td]145 [/td][td]708 [/td][td]25.41 [/td][td]57.4 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble (INDIA) [/td][td]1990-2008 [/td][td]132 [/td][td]619 [/td][td]29.65 [/td][td]65.9 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HMRKB Herath (SL) [/td][td]1999-2018 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]433 [/td][td]28.07 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Ashwin (INDIA) [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]427 [/td][td]24.12 [/td][td]52.1 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh (INDIA) [/td][td]1998-2015 [/td][td]103 [/td][td]417 [/td][td]32.46 [/td][td]68.5 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]NM Lyon (AUS) [/td][td]2011-2021 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]403 [/td][td]32.07 [/td][td]64.3 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Vettori (ICC/NZ) [/td][td]1997-2014 [/td][td]113 [/td][td]362 [/td][td]34.36 [/td][td]79.5 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]LR Gibbs (WI) [/td][td]1958-1976 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]309 [/td][td]29.09 [/td][td]87.7 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Underwood (ENG) [/td][td]1966-1982 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]297 [/td][td]25.83 [/td][td]73.6 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Bedi (INDIA) [/td][td]1966-1979 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]266 [/td][td]28.71 [/td][td]80.3 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Danish Kaneria (PAK) [/td][td]2000-2010 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]261 [/td][td]34.79 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GP Swann (ENG) [/td][td]2008-2013 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]255 [/td][td]29.96 [/td][td]60.1 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Benaud (AUS) [/td][td]1952-1964 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]248 [/td][td]27.03 [/td][td]77 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Chandrasekhar (INDIA) [/td][td]1964-1979 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]242 [/td][td]29.74 [/td][td]65.9 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Abdul Qadir (PAK) [/td][td]1977-1990 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]236 [/td][td]32.8 [/td][td]72.5 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yasir Shah (PAK) [/td][td]2014-2021 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]235 [/td][td]31.08 [/td][td]58.2 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RA Jadeja (INDIA) [/td][td]2012-2021 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]232 [/td][td]24.84 [/td][td]61.7 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CV Grimmett (AUS) [/td][td]1925-1936 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]216 [/td][td]24.21 [/td][td]67.1 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shakib Al Hasan (BAN) [/td][td]2007-2021 [/td][td]59 [/td][td]215 [/td][td]31.3 [/td][td]62.9 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCG MacGill (AUS) [/td][td]1998-2008 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]208 [/td][td]29.02 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saqlain Mushtaq (PAK) [/td][td]1995-2004 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]208 [/td][td]29.83 [/td][td]67.6 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
His home record for an offie who bowls in Australia is excellent, and his away record is even better. Outside of Australia he arguably goes down as an underrated bowler.
 
Another good day at Adelaide for Lyon:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/pvc9pd" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Nathan Lyon with legend's tag as he enters Test top ten

1.jpg

Back to where his international career began, Nathan Lyon moved into outright tenth on the all-time Test wickets list in Australia's victory over Sri Lanka.

Joining the likes of Muttiah Muralitharan, Anil Kumble, Ravichandran Ashwin and the late Shane Warne, Lyon joins an exclusive club of spinners in the top ten thanks to a nine-wicket performance across the two innings in Galle.

Backing up his 5/90 on day one after Sri Lanka won the toss and elected to bat, Lyon was equally devastating on day three, as the hosts' plan to counter-attack brutally backfired.

Dimuth Karunaratne's side could only bat 22.5 overs in their second innings, the shortest completed innings in their Test history, as Lyon claimed a quartet of scalps.

Karunaratne himself was Lyon's first of the four, with his bottom edge pouched by Alex Carey. Kusal Mendis' top edge fell to Mitchell Swepson for Lyon's second, before claiming Ramesh Mendis to move to 435 Test wickets.

The wicket of Mendis meant Lyon passed Indian fast-bowling all-rounder Kapil Dev to go outright tenth on the list, with the wicket of Niroshan Dickwella moving the Aussie great to 436.

Today's spell puts a third Australian into the top ten, with Lyon joining the great Shane Warne (708) and fast-bowler Glenn McGrath (563). Rather fittingly, Lyon joins the club at the same venue he made his Test debut in 2011, when he claimed Kumar Sangakkara with his first delivery.

Few would have predicted Lyon’s legendary path, not only when handed his Test cap in eleven years ago, but further back during his days of toil for South Australia. Averaging 45 in first-class cricket when called up, Lyon was famously on the books as a groundsman at the Adelaide Oval. Lyon’s success has not been down to variations, but rather a metronomic consistency. Ashwin’s carrom ball and Murali’s doosra have bamboozled some of the game’s best, though Lyon has made his mark through subtleties in bounce of his conventional stock ball.

After Lyon's exploits to spin the hosts into the collapse, the Australians needed just five to win in their second innings, to claim the nation's first Test win in Galle in 11 years.

David Warner ensured the match ended quickly, taking just four balls to hit two boundaries to end the contest.

The teams meet again on July 8.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2663712
 
It is remarkable he now has over 430 Test wickets. I think he can end up with 500-600 wickets by the time he retires.
 
Still seems a bit underrated despite his very good record.
 
I think he's probably rated about right by most people these days.

He's a pretty good bowler, but no more than that. A bit like the guy he just leapfrogged on the list (Herath).

He's good enough to do the business, slightly more often than not, when pitches are helpful. Good enough to hold his end up when conditions don't suit. Good enough to adapt and figure out a way to be effective in Oz, England and Asia.

But he's not really in the very top bracket of spinners in any of those conditions. Let's face it he averages >30 in ALL those key countries.

So good bowler, very adaptable, generally reliable, good team member. Nice shape/loop in Oz. But if he's breaking records it's because of longevity, and a lack of spinners back in Oz to push him out. There was a few times selectors would have liked to drop him but there was just zero serious spinners at the time in Shield cricket.

If you bracket him with the other best offies of his era, Swann & Ashwin then he's again the most versatile but the least killer in his own conditions.

I'd say Swann was probably the more dangerous bowler- not by much, but by enough to be noticeable- in English & Asian conditions. Ashwin is killer at home and just learning to be effective in SENA.

Then again, if Lyon wins Oz this tour of India coming up, it will the capstone which sets him at a higher level than both, imo.
 
It is hard for me to rate him very highly. He had the ball in his court to go out there and win the test matches on Day 4 and Day 5 in Sydney and Gabba in the test series vs India but he was simply not able to grab that chance and India chased down totals or drew another game with quite ease.

Stokes was able to win it for England at Headingley for the same reason. Chased down 359 and the series was drawn 2-2.

Still a very good bowler, 430 wickets are no less but won't really rank among great spinners.
 
He definitely has to be respected. Even Pakistani spinners who have had the opportunity to play on spin condusive tracks don't have 300 test wickets whereas Lyon who has played his cricket mostly on Australian wickets has 436 test wickets which is remarkable for an orthodox traditional off spinner.
 
Nathan Lyon is on-track to leave Sri Lanka as the world's most potent Test offspinner since Muthiah Muralidaran in a stunning endorsement of the Australian's rise.

Lyon climbed from 13th to 10th in the all-time leading wicket-taker rankings in the first Test in Galle after taking nine scalps, as Australia romped to victory over Sri Lanka inside three days.

South African quick Dale Steyn sits three wickets ahead of Lyon on 439 Test victims in ninth, while Ravichandran Ashwin is in eighth spot with 442.

Ashwin is not playing in India's current Test against England at Edgbaston, and does not have another on the horizon until November.

If Lyon can take seven or more wickets in the second Test, only Muralitharan's 800 wickets would stand above him for off-spinners in Test history.

"I'm not really sure where I stand on the (all-time wicket-taking) list ... (but) the top end of the wicket takers, there's some amazing names there," Lyon said during the first Test win.

"For me it's always been about the team ... it's something I'm proud of but will look at in more depth at the end of my career.

"But that's a long way off."

Lyon’s achievement is remarkable considering he did not play first-class cricket until he was 23 years old, before making his Test debut seven months later.

"You could see that skill level straight away," New Zealand spin legend and Australia's assistant coach Daniel Vettori, who played against Lyon in his fifth career Test, said.

"There are very few bowlers who are able to be consistent with that amount of top spin and revolutions. It's a really tricky thing to do.

"And then you see the development of that bowler, to read conditions, to add things to his armoury and a desire to just keep wanting to get better."

Australia expect another big-turning track for Friday's second Test in Galle but are unlikely to change their attack or even consider bringing in an extra spinner in Jon Holland.

It was once the wickets of the sub-continent that were the most difficult for Lyon to conquer.

But the 34-year-old has now learned to use his top spin and bounce to his advantage.

Five of Lyon's nine wickets in the first Test came with the hosts trying to sweep or reverse-sweep him, beaten by the bounce and turn as they struggled to get over the ball.

Lyon has also spoken at length about his willingness to depart from the usual shape he bowls in Australia when on the subcontinent, becoming Australia's best in these conditions in recent years.

It's a tactical change that looms as crucial ahead of next year's four-Test tour of India, where Lyon will play a big role.

"Because his stock ball is so amazing, sometimes for him that is good enough," Vettori, who took 362 Test wickets, said.

"But for his development, he is looking to bring variations in. Different balls, over and around the wicket. He is very receptive to all information."

Most Test wickets as an off-spinner:

Muthiah Muralitharan: 800

Ravichandran Ashwin: 442

Nathan Lyon: 436

*Rangana Herath: 433

Harbhajan Singh: 417

*Daniel Vettori: 362

*Denotes left-arm orthordox bowler

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/nat...-cricket-australia-sri-lanka-galle/2022-07-03
 
Fi9kCbYakAAEBfY
 
From everything I have ever heard about him, Nathan Lyon is rated almost exactly right by cricket fans everywhere.
 
He is rated exactly how he should be, there was definitely a time where he was competing with Ashwin for the best spinner tag but in the last 3 years he has been left far behind.
 
Playing a crucial part in the 2nd Test vs India - 4 wickets so far.
 
Lyons truly under rated

For a genuine offie from austraila to take so many test wkts is remarkable

As we know hes played over half of his career on pitches at home which dont support his bowling and arent tailored for him

Hes had a remarkable career and done very well
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Test cricketers with 100 wickets against India:<br><br>James Anderson <br>Muttiah Muralitharan<br>NATHAN LYON<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvAUS?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvAUS</a></p>— Nic Savage (@nic_savage1) <a href="https://twitter.com/nic_savage1/status/1626852311195856896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Lyon now has 466 Test wickets.

Will probably end up with 500-525 Test wickets by the time he retires. He is now 35.
 
sweep_shot said:
Can he play that long? He is already 35.

To reach 600, he has to play till 40 maybe.
Click to expand...

Australia play good amount of test matches and Lyon features in all of those.

For 100-130 more wickets he will need to play 25-35 matches which can be done in 3-4 years of time. He looks fit enough to play till 38.
 
I just realized this was an older thread. I don’t think Lyon gets underrated at all now. He is considered one of the best test spinners of this generation.
 
Currently on fire Lyon

Most wickets by a visiting bowler in Asia

128 N Lyon *
127 S Warne
98 D Vettori
92 D Steyn
82 J Anderson
77 C Walsh
 
I would always consider Lyon as better bowler than Ashwin. Ashwin takes wickets on rank turners tailormade for him, and that's why he hasn't got a single 5 wkt hall in SENA countries. Lyon is an absolute gem, takes wickets for Australia in all conditions. Stats suckers often have this habit of comparing bowling averages, i think one should also look at wickets per match in conditions adverse to your kind of bowling as it shows perseverance. In India Lyon 45 wkts in 10 tests, 35 in 8 tests in Lanka, 45 in 13 in England, 10 in 2 matches in NZ, 28 in 9 tests in SA, these are mighty impressive figures for a visiting spinner. One thing i liked about kohli-Shastri partnership was they showed the mirror to Ashwin by not playing in many of the overseas matches.
 
Yet another 5fer for Lyon - Helping dismantle India in the 3rd Test.
 
Before this series, Nathan Lyon had taken 34 wickets @ 30.58 in seven Tests in India.

In this series alone, he's taken 19 wickets @ 17.94 in three Tests.
 
If Lyon was playing for an Asian side, he probably would've ended up with 700+ wickets by now (due to spin-friendly pitches).

It is impressive for an Aussie spinner to cross 450 Test wickets.
 
Lyon would be an ATG in test cricket if he was born in India.

These are Lyon's stats in India

Inns - 18
Wkts - 52
Avg - 26.5
SR - 47.3
5 wkts - 5
10 wkts - 1


Everybody knows that Australia is the worst country for finger spinners. This is proven by Lyon's away stats. He has better average away from home than at home

Home - 31.46
Away - 29.24

Lyon was born in the wrong country. At least Australia plays a gazillion tests for him to not miss out on wickets

Just 21 wickets to go before Lyon reaches 500 test wickets
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Lyon would be an ATG in test cricket if he was born in India.

These are Lyon's stats in India

Inns - 18
Wkts - 52
Avg - 26.5
SR - 47.3
5 wkts - 5
10 wkts - 1


Everybody knows that Australia is the worst country for finger spinners. This is proven by Lyon's away stats. He has better average away from home than at home

Home - 31.46
Away - 29.24

Lyon was born in the wrong country. At least Australia plays a gazillion tests for him to not miss out on wickets

Just 21 wickets to go before Lyon reaches 500 test wickets
Click to expand...

He is already an ATG. Taking 500 Test wickets is no joke, it is a longevity record and only 7 bowlers in 150 years of Test cricket were good enough to achieve this milestone.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Does this win count?
India is playing without it's two best players.
Click to expand...

Pant I agree but Bumrah really? Bumrah rarely played home tests and most of the time team doesn't need him at home because Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami and Umesh are there to do the job.
 
STAT: Most wickets by a visiting bowler in India

55 N Lyon
54 D Underwood
52 R Benaud
43 C Walsh
40 M Muralitharan
 
Off-spinner Nathan Lyon doesn't believe Australia's preparations for the World Test Championship final will be affected by the talk around the Ashes, terming the upcoming contest against India as "grand final". India and Australia will square off in the WTC final at The Oval from June 7. The five-Test Ashes against England beginning June 16 has dominated the headlines over the past few months as Australia seek to win the marque series away from home for the first time in 22 years.

"Yes, we are playing the Ashes but we've got a big game that we're up for. This (WTC final) is our grand final, and then our season basically starts again," Lyon was quoted as saying by Australian Associated Press.

"That's probably where we're quite happy with where we're at with our planning. We are able to understand what we've got around the corner, and be OK. It's exciting to be part of the final and the fanfare and stuff around it, it's bloody special.

"I know every Australian fan is looking forward to the Ashes, and so they should be. But they should also be excited about this match," he added.

Australia will head into the Ashes without any warm-up game with the WTC final being the lone match before the contest against England.

Lyon believes the 1-2 loss Test series in India earlier this year won't have any bearing on the upcoming contest.

"You can wipe off anything that happened in India," Lyon said.

"Both teams are really well rounded in their squads. It is going to be a really good challenge.

"India obviously have some class batters but they have some class fast bowlers as well. It's going to be a good challenge. Both squads going at it and competing for one game, it's going to be a really good challenge," he said.

"It's a fresh start. I'm looking forward to it."

NDTV
 
Cannot believe that this guy is about to get 500 wickets in Test cricket. One of the worst inductees into the 500 club. Still remember how he was continuously made to look like a poor version of Arshad Khan on his trips to the UAE and Pakistan.

Ravi Ashwin wipes the floor with Lyon yet Ashwin will not end up with more wickets than Lyon which would be a travesty for cricket. Lyon's strike rate isn't even better than Yasir Shah's, who was pathetic in the last 2-3 years of his career.

I'm amazed that batsmen worldwide are not putting Lyon to the sword. I mean if Pakistani batsmen can make him look like a school bowler, how are better batsmen around the world succumbing to his lollipops.
 
shariqnoor said:
Cannot believe that this guy is about to get 500 wickets in Test cricket. One of the worst inductees into the 500 club. Still remember how he was continuously made to look like a poor version of Arshad Khan on his trips to the UAE and Pakistan.

Ravi Ashwin wipes the floor with Lyon yet Ashwin will not end up with more wickets than Lyon which would be a travesty for cricket. Lyon's strike rate isn't even better than Yasir Shah's, who was pathetic in the last 2-3 years of his career.

I'm amazed that batsmen worldwide are not putting Lyon to the sword. I mean if Pakistani batsmen can make him look like a school bowler, how are better batsmen around the world succumbing to his lollipops.
Click to expand...

Lyon doesn't bowl on dustbowls unlike Ashwin.
 
shariqnoor said:
Cannot believe that this guy is about to get 500 wickets in Test cricket. One of the worst inductees into the 500 club. Still remember how he was continuously made to look like a poor version of Arshad Khan on his trips to the UAE and Pakistan.

Ravi Ashwin wipes the floor with Lyon yet Ashwin will not end up with more wickets than Lyon which would be a travesty for cricket. Lyon's strike rate isn't even better than Yasir Shah's, who was pathetic in the last 2-3 years of his career.

I'm amazed that batsmen worldwide are not putting Lyon to the sword. I mean if Pakistani batsmen can make him look like a school bowler, how are better batsmen around the world succumbing to his lollipops.
Click to expand...

Every single wicket he got in this match was a bazball wicket. Most of the wickets he got were when batsman tried to attack him. If you seriously want to see him off you can do that.
 
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