Vigilantism

[kabbirann]

3 Sikhs ,one of them an elderly man, were thrashed in Rajasthan by a Hindu mob.They were taken to a police station on an assumption that they were child -kidnappers and released when it was confirmed that they were Sewadars. No action was taken against the mob.

Have just seen the vid on twitter.
This is just one amongst many such increasing cases of vigilantism especially against minorities in India.I am curious as to the reasons why?
I can understand not respecting the law as the law is obviously an ***, as seen in these cases where no action is taken against the mob.
Is it the case ,that under the present govt ,the Hindu’s feel emboldened to take advantage of their numerical superiority to freely express their hate?
And why are you guys filled with so much hate?You guys own the country.
It’s like the racist white Trump supporters who feel legitimised by Trump’s presidency.
Trump is not going to end well for America and ditto for Modi for India.
As Kabir said- Boye ped babul ka, so amua kaha se paaye

 

[ExpressPacer]

The world is an unfair place.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Disheartening to read what a lot of Sikhs and Muslim's go through daily in India

 

[kabbirann]

Disheartening to read what a lot of Sikhs and Muslim's go through daily in India

Would'nt say it's a daily occurrence but the increased frequency is worrying.
India continues it's slow transformation into a banana republic.

 

[enkidu_]

The only reason Hindus turned "secular" - a concept as foreign to them as anyone else in the world minus Europe - was because, thanks to the Pakistan Movement, and for complex reasons, nationalism in the region was based on religious, and not ethnic identity : thus against Jinnah's "Islamic Pakistan" you had Nehru's "Secular India".

But the problem is that the economic prosperity brings the rise of the middle class, and we know from Alexis de Tocqueville's study of the US in the late 19th century that the middle class is, in terms of ideology, "conservative" : that's why Nazis were middle class Germans and not rural illiterates, and that's why Islamists are more engineers or doctors than into agriculture or menial work.

India is simply going through such phase (it's one of the latest places in the world to know a genuine middle class), and the rise of Hindu identitarian politics will keep growing.

On a practical level, for Muslims you'll have more ghar wapsi, while for Sikhs the narrative of the "Sikhs are merely a Hindu branch" will keep getting stronger.

 

[JaDed]

Sikhs shouldn't take it lying down,right now as a religion they can easily fight it out because of the unity.

Btw Law and order has been an issue since forever ,not sure the specifics you are bringing now,also share such videos to create awareness about it.

 

[JaDed]

The only reason Hindus turned "secular" - a concept as foreign to them as anyone else in the world minus Europe - was because, thanks to the Pakistan Movement, and for complex reasons, nationalism in the region was based on religious, and not ethnic identity : thus against Jinnah's "Islamic Pakistan" you had Nehru's "Secular India".

But the problem is that the economic prosperity brings the rise of the middle class, and we know from Alexis de Tocqueville's study of the US in the late 19th century that the middle class is, in terms of ideology, "conservative" : that's why Nazis were middle class Germans and not rural illiterates, and that's why Islamists are more engineers or doctors than into agriculture or menial work.

India is simply going through such phase (it's one of the latest places in the world to know a genuine middle class), and the rise of Hindu identitarian politics will keep growing.

On a practical level, for Muslims you'll have more ghar wapsi, while for Sikhs the narrative of the "Sikhs are merely a Hindu branch" will keep getting stronger.

China proves that,there could be other approach but it requires a lot of blood shed and destruction of cultures.

 

[kabbirann]

The only reason Hindus turned "secular" - a concept as foreign to them as anyone else in the world minus Europe - was because, thanks to the Pakistan Movement, and for complex reasons, nationalism in the region was based on religious, and not ethnic identity : thus against Jinnah's "Islamic Pakistan" you had Nehru's "Secular India".

But the problem is that the economic prosperity brings the rise of the middle class, and we know from Alexis de Tocqueville's study of the US in the late 19th century that the middle class is, in terms of ideology, "conservative" : that's why Nazis were middle class Germans and not rural illiterates, and that's why Islamists are more engineers or doctors than into agriculture or menial work.

India is simply going through such phase (it's one of the latest places in the world to know a genuine middle class), and the rise of Hindu identitarian politics will keep growing.

On a practical level, for Muslims you'll have more ghar wapsi, while for Sikhs the narrative of the "Sikhs are merely a Hindu branch" will keep getting stronger.

I'm Sikh and secular and my secularism has nothing to do with Europe.
Interesting point about the conservatism of the middle class but why is it accompanied with increased crudity, stupidity and complete disrespect for the rule of law.
I mean, Paresh Rawal ,a BJP MP,tweeted about tying Arundhati Roy to a jeep in front of Kashmiri stone pelters.

 

[enkidu_]

China proves that,there could be other approach but it requires a lot of blood shed and destruction of cultures.

Indeed. In fact communism for both Russia and China has been adopted to their own mentality, and was a way to say to the West "we will be modern... but in a super modern way". That's why it was as "brutal" as effective : if Stalin didn't launch his quinquennial plans, who seriously thought that Tsarist Russia, which was filled with illiterate peasants, will be the leading nation in siderurgy - Hitlerian Germany would benefit from it as much as from Anglo American capital influx -, or, even more telling, that the grandchildren of these peoples who couldn't read nor write would rival the US in space travel ?

The '79 Islamic Revolution of Iran also ironically plays such role, accelerating the secularization (see female fertility rate dropping, which means a lot in sociology), but a quite special secularity.

India is knowing an economic prosperity and thus a rise of the middle class only since few years, as compared to Russia, China or even Iran (when the reformist Khatami got two consecutive terms - proof that the urban middle class, esp. women, were "waking up" - India was just about to get the fruits of its liberalization.)

"Hindu nationalism" is just beginning.

 

[enkidu_]

I'm Sikh and secular and my secularism has nothing to do with Europe.
Interesting point about the conservatism of the middle class but why is it accompanied with increased crudity, stupidity and complete disrespect for the rule of law.
I mean, Paresh Rawal ,a BJP MP,tweeted about tying Arundhati Roy to a jeep in front of Kashmiri stone pelters.

The middle class is by definition "individualistic", and as many psychologists (like Le Bon or Reich) noted in parallel to the rise of different sorts of fascism, its individualism gets diluted when a "mystical collectivism" rises up, for different reasons (krisis, in culture or economy, generally both interlinked) : then the middle class is under the spell of an ideology which pushes its moral frontiers ; when you're in a crowd, you can be the most polite engineer, your ego disappears when the ideologized crowd attacks ‎scapegoat from the minority - Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, ... -, and there's no more idea of "sin", because "sin" is defined by the majority... which has gone mad ; thus you, the "educated" engineer (or doctor and so on) have no shame in throwing stones at the adulterous woman or burning the Hindu, for the simple reason that everyone does it.

Only an Islamic state can block such vile emotional and irrational outbursts of humanity.

 

[JaDed]

Indeed. In fact communism for both Russia and China has been adopted to their own mentality, and was a way to say to the West "we will be modern... but in a super modern way". That's why it was as "brutal" as effective : if Stalin didn't launch his quinquennial plans, who seriously thought that Tsarist Russia, which was filled with illiterate peasants, will be the leading nation in siderurgy - Hitlerian Germany would benefit from it as much as from Anglo American capital influx -, or, even more telling, that the grandchildren of these peoples who couldn't read nor write would rival the US in space travel ?

The '79 Islamic Revolution of Iran also ironically plays such role, accelerating the secularization (see female fertility rate dropping, which means a lot in sociology), but a quite special secularity.

India is knowing an economic prosperity and thus a rise of the middle class only since few years, as compared to Russia, China or even Iran (when the reformist Khatami got two consecutive terms - proof that the urban middle class, esp. women, were "waking up" - India was just about to get the fruits of its liberalization.)

"Hindu nationalism" is just beginning.

Thanks for the insights,at times u might have bias but like reading your posts just to get an idea.

Also,not a fan of Hindu nationalism,but if it educates the poor and motivates them to work for the land all for it.In this era of social media,GOVNs cannot get away with lack of poor law and order.India has been absolutely terrible at that offlate.

[MENTION=132252]kabbirann[/MENTION] the middle class support for Akalis,Bhinderawal would also prove that the country is a banana republic without law and order everywhere and it always has been that way.

 

[SandyB]

Some really sharp points made by [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] here.

I too am shocked by the extreme conservatism of the Indian Middle class. You thought that education and world awareness would actually help people give up on archaic regressive views, but it seems economic prosperity has only gone on to solidify those feelings and in many cases unmask them.

The availability of social media has led to what you call "Power without accountability", where you can express any regressive or poisonous idea , be it Religious supremacy, casteism, racism, misogyny etc to a huge audience without suffering any serious consequences for the same. So you have people openly expressing their hatred and in many cases amplifying it using social media.

This rise of religious Nationalism in India these days is a worrying sight . The majority who are in power and control things, feel that India needs to be a mixture of the Iran and Chinese nation states to progress further , ie, A progressing state that is deep rooted in hindu religion (like Iran is) and a unified, uniform nation where the people are completely allegiant to one ideology (Hindutva) and one party (the sangh) and one culture (Hindi-Hindu-Hindustan) , like the Chinese model.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm Sikh and secular and my secularism has nothing to do with Europe.
Interesting point about the conservatism of the middle class but why is it accompanied with increased crudity, stupidity and complete disrespect for the rule of law.
I mean, Paresh Rawal ,a BJP MP,tweeted about tying Arundhati Roy to a jeep in front of Kashmiri stone pelters.

Not just that. But notice the attitudes abroad of these new middle classes as they venture out of India on business, studies or tourism. Just look at the attitudes of the top modern Indian cricketers versus those of yesteryear.

Notice how yesterday Trump shoved the Montenegro Prime Minister aside to get in front, and start preening himself like a cockerel in front of the assembled tv camera crews? He was able to do that and get away with it because he's the leader of the most powerful country in the world. Similarly, the Indian middle classes feel emboldened knowing that India's new found economic clout, due to the sheer size of the 1.3 billion population, means that they too can start mimicking the American abroad attitude of "You can't touch me..".

 

[SandyB]

Not just that. But notice the attitudes abroad of these new middle classes as they venture out of India on business, studies or tourism. Just look at the attitudes of the top modern Indian cricketers versus those of yesteryear.

Notice how yesterday Trump shoved the Montenegro Prime Minister aside to get in front, and start preening himself like a cockerel in front of the assembled tv camera crews? He was able to do that and get away with it because he's the leader of the most powerful country in the world. Similarly, the Indian middle classes feel emboldened knowing that India's new found economic clout, due to the sheer size of the 1.3 billion population, means that they too can start mimicking the American abroad attitude of "You can't touch me..".

Yeah. The present batch of Indians really dig into the "once a great nation, now on the cusp of regaining all the lost glory" narrative, that the Nationalist parties sell so well ! ..

Well you could also argue that regaining lost glory from the Mughal era was also one of the prime reasons behind the Pakistan Nationhood movement as well.

What I understand, is that the BJP is selling an Indianised version of M.A.G.A, but the problem is that people want greatness, but are not ready to understand what actually made this conuntry great or have very myopic and distorted visions of what they mean by greatness. !

 

[enkidu_]

Thanks for the insights,at times u might have bias but like reading your posts just to get an idea.

Also,not a fan of Hindu nationalism,but if it educates the poor and motivates them to work for the land all for it.In this era of social media,GOVNs cannot get away with lack of poor law and order.India has been absolutely terrible at that offlate.

[MENTION=132252]kabbirann[/MENTION] the middle class support for Akalis,Bhinderawal would also prove that the country is a banana republic without law and order everywhere and it always has been that way.

Tbh I do find Hindu nationalism respectable, with its educational/cultural/civilizational emphasis, but it'd be understandable why non Hindus won't digest it. I try to analyze it rationally, and if I criticize Hindu nationalism, I'd be obliged to do the same for Islamism, which, for many parts (not talking of Talibans or DAESH, but Muslim Brotherhood, Jamaat e Islami, etc) is the same project.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Tbh I do find Hindu nationalism respectable, with its educational/cultural/civilizational emphasis, but it'd be understandable why non Hindus won't digest it. I try to analyze it rationally, and if I criticize Hindu nationalism, I'd be obliged to do the same for Islamism, which, for many parts (not talking of Talibans or DAESH, but Muslim Brotherhood, Jamaat e Islami, etc) is the same project.

It is expected that non Hindus will not accept Hindu nationalism, but it is a shame that hindus are not supporting it. You can see some of them here.. Instead of saying Ram naam satya hai ( Ram is Truth), they say RIP. These sell outs are the danger to Hindu renaissance as they weaken it from inside. Shame on such people and will see how they Rest when they go to Yamloka.

 

[JaDed]

Tbh I do find Hindu nationalism respectable, with its educational/cultural/civilizational emphasis, but it'd be understandable why non Hindus won't digest it. I try to analyze it rationally, and if I criticize Hindu nationalism, I'd be obliged to do the same for Islamism, which, for many parts (not talking of Talibans or DAESH, but Muslim Brotherhood, Jamaat e Islami, etc) is the same project.

Good to know you are not a hypocrite like me and [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION].

 

[troodon]

Shameful.

Sikhs got beaten up because someone spread a rumor that the 3 Sikhs were involved in the molestation of a women. Idiot sheeple do not even verify the facts. They went on a rage and attacked the 3 Sikhs.

Turns out, those Sikhs were Social workers and had nothing to do with the molestatoin.

Hopefully since there is a video, the attackers get a good beating in the prison.

 

[akki]

3 Sikhs ,one of them an elderly man, were thrashed in Rajasthan by a Hindu mob.They were taken to a police station on an assumption that they were child -kidnappers and released when it was confirmed that they were Sewadars. No action was taken against the mob.

Have just seen the vid on twitter.
This is just one amongst many such increasing cases of vigilantism especially against minorities in India.I am curious as to the reasons why?
I can understand not respecting the law as the law is obviously an ***, as seen in these cases where no action is taken against the mob.
Is it the case ,that under the present govt ,the Hindu’s feel emboldened to take advantage of their numerical superiority to freely express their hate?
And why are you guys filled with so much hate?You guys own the country.
It’s like the racist white Trump supporters who feel legitimised by Trump’s presidency.
Trump is not going to end well for America and ditto for Modi for India.
As Kabir said- Boye ped babul ka, so amua kaha se paaye

This has nothing to do with sikhs or religions. Use some common sense even it were hindus then also they wud have been beaten up. Dnt use religion in each story. sikhs are the one of the most successfull and most respected community in india. i am also punjabi so i know better but whatever they did it was wrong . More than 80 percent of indians are dehati i wud say what wud u expect from them

 

[kabbirann]

The middle class is by definition "individualistic", and as many psychologists (like Le Bon or Reich) noted in parallel to the rise of different sorts of fascism, its individualism gets diluted when a "mystical collectivism" rises up, for different reasons (krisis, in culture or economy, generally both interlinked) : then the middle class is under the spell of an ideology which pushes its moral frontiers ; when you're in a crowd, you can be the most polite engineer, your ego disappears when the ideologized crowd attacks ‎scapegoat from the minority - Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, ... -, and there's no more idea of "sin", because "sin" is defined by the majority... which has gone mad ; thus you, the "educated" engineer (or doctor and so on) have no shame in throwing stones at the adulterous woman or burning the Hindu, for the simple reason that everyone does it.

Only an Islamic state can block such vile emotional and irrational outbursts of humanity.

Fascinating point about individualism and collectivism.
I do think not knowing the other helps as well.
I loathe Modi supporters and think of them as a group of demented,amoral people ,this is my collectivism, yet when I go to India where I am surrounded by them ,I am forced to see them as individuals.

The very idea of an Islamic state is abhorrent to me.

 

[kabbirann]

This has nothing to do with sikhs or religions. Use some common sense even it were hindus then also they wud have been beaten up. Dnt use religion in each story. sikhs are the one of the most successfull and most respected community in india. i am also punjabi so i know better but whatever they did it was wrong . More than 80 percent of indians are dehati i wud say what wud u expect from them

Fair few of my family members live in the dehat and they are more open-minded and smarter then some of the posters here.
If this was just one incident,I would've agreed with you,but this is one amongst many cases of Hindu mobs taking the law into their own hands and if India wants to make any claim about being a civilised country ,there is need for introspection here.

 

[akki]

Fair few of my family members live in the dehat and they are more open-minded and smarter then some of the posters here.
If this was just one incident,I would've agreed with you,but this is one amongst many cases of Hindu mobs taking the law into their own hands and if India wants to make any claim about being a civilised country ,there is need for introspection here.

Your family is not dehati as you said they are open minded people . i again say it will take time for india truely to become civilized country. As for now they are dehati. And may be cowards too who cant fight for their rigjts . i am glad all this news comes in media. i hope all such cases are covered. But seriously its not only about religion if it were hindus then they wud have still beaten them. What to say man when cows have become priority of people more than many rational issues.