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Virat Kohli - A bottler in ODI knockouts?

His numbers in World Cup knockout games have not been good enough. He still has the 2023 WC to correct his numbers.
 
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Professor the GOAT

:salute
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Virat Kohli in Champions Trophy & World Cup knockout matches versus Aus, Eng, NZ, Pakistan, S Africa and West Indies:<br><br>Innings 6<br>Runs 83<br>Average 13.83<br>Strike-rate 71.55<br>Fifties 0<br>Hundreds 0<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1148932949645123584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Virat Kohli in Champions Trophy & World Cup knockout matches versus Aus, Eng, NZ, Pakistan, S Africa and West Indies:<br><br>Innings 6<br>Runs 83<br>Average 13.83<br>Strike-rate 71.55<br>Fifties 0<br>Hundreds 0<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1148932949645123584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Why include South Africa and West Indies? South Africa is a terrible team in WC and West Indies is a minnow. Cherry picking at it's finest.
 
Kohli always had problem against left handers early on in his innings when the left handed can bring ball in.

Amir exploited it in CT and Boult exploited today. It's his weakness and he tries hard to over come it but he can't get rid of it permanently. If a good bowler bowls well then this will always happen.
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Virat Kohli in Champions Trophy & World Cup knockout matches versus Aus, Eng, NZ, Pakistan, S Africa and West Indies:<br><br>Innings 6<br>Runs 83<br>Average 13.83<br>Strike-rate 71.55<br>Fifties 0<br>Hundreds 0<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1148932949645123584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2019</a></blockquote>
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From average of 60 in jamoodis to 13 when it really matters, lol
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Why include South Africa and West Indies? South Africa is a terrible team in WC and West Indies is a minnow. Cherry picking at it's finest.
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It says knockout matches. If they played India in that stage it should be counted

Also the point is not about skill of opposition. Kohli can score against bowler of any skill. The point here is the pressure
 
Slog said:
It says knockout matches. If they played India in that stage it should be counted

Also the point is not about skill of opposition. Kohli can score against bowler of any skill. The point here is the pressure
Click to expand...

Why leave out other teams? It's still a cherry picked stat. We all know Kohli is a choker in WC. But selecting random teams is nonsense.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Why leave out other teams? It's still a cherry picked stat. We all know Kohli is a choker in WC. But selecting random teams is nonsense.
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Oh ok I just noticed

Weird considering that I’m sure his record with every team isn’t great either

Who has he excluded? SL? He scored 34
 
So Kohli need to wait 4 more years to prove his worth in World Cups
 
I don't think Kohli is a bottler in knock outs. He has that 35(49) in 2011 world cup final, that 43(34) in champions trophy 2013 final,58*( 64) in champions trophy 2013 semi final & 96*(78) in champions trophy 2017 semi final . Of these, 3 came in chasing too.So 4 inns in knock outs there itself.

But still based on his reputation, he has been far off . That is where he needs to act wisely moving forward,a thought of giving up captaincy for a start etc etc.
 
Why Kohli can't chase during the crunch knock out matches?

Like he usually does during series between two teams. Sometimes scoring tons in 50 balls and sometimes chasing 338 in 40 overs for his team.

2011 Was his First World Cup,
Then 2015 WC Semis at Melbourne
2017 Champions Trophy Final
2019 WC Semis Edgbaston

The target was just 240, which was nothing out of Kohlis potential.
 
Virat Kohli's legacy in ODI is tainted forever.

KING
MASTER CHASER
BEST TEMPERAMENT OF ALL TIME
GREATEST ODI BATSMAN OF ALL TIME
GREATEST BATSMAN OF THIS GENERATION

... are some of the terms that have been used to describe Virat Kohli in the recent past. Saner voices who have always pointed out his lack of fight when the pressure is REALLY ON have been discarded again and again owing to the mountain of runs he has scored in useless bilaterals over the years.

People point out his amazing stats, yeah sure.. let's see Kohli's ODI's stats in the past 2 years prior to this WC:


Virat Kohli's performances from Jan 1 2018 to the start of the WC:

Matches: 25
Runs: 1813
Average: 90.65
SR: 99.61

Looks like Bradman reincarnated, right?

So, how about this GOAT stand up when the pressure is really on? Atleast show some semblance of a fight to justify his hilarious billing as one of the greatest of all time, even chasing a strictly modest target by all means?

So, what happens?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

1(6)

Hundreds in the Tournament: 0

Really?

So what went wrong?

Unbelievable form coming into the Tournament.
Peak of his career.
Modest target in the Semi.
Not the greatest bowling attack by any means.
Not the most treacherous pitch of all time.
Huge Experience on both sides of him in the batting order.

And the guy still chokes?

Is this the guy we'll still be calling as one of the greatest? Bullocks.

Not to mention that the guy now averages a PATHETIC 12 in WC Knockouts spread over 3 WCs. Dhawan is the best Indian ODI batsman of this generation and even Rohit Sharma is far better than this consistent choker. Hope more people wake up to this along with the fact that he for his life can't captain a cricket team without playing politics and pushing his favoritism at every turn.
 
May not be GOAT, but he is still a ATG regardless of his performances in ICC events. If he does not perform in the WC, he may not finish as the GOAT.
 
How so? Even Pakistan led by Imran Khan lost in the semi finals in the 1987 world cup despite being a really strong team. Kohli still has 1-2 world cups left to win it.
 
To hell with a 60 avg when you **** the bed the only time it matters.....Sorry Kohli even as your fan I'd say your'e no GOAT, just another batsmen who failed to win us 2 trophies.
 
The stats are damning to be honest. He has maximum of 2 world cups left now. Even if he does well in them during knockouts, it will be 3 failures vs 2 successes.
 
Absolutely.

I have been one of his biggest supporters on this forum.

He has been a complete failure in WC knockouts and he will forever remain beneath Viv Richards as the second greatest ODI batsman ever even if he scores 70 ODI tons.
 
boomboomcheema said:
And that will be his last World Cup
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Yes and i don't see entering in the league of Viv, Ponting, Sachin

When is India's next bilateral series with Sri Lanka or West Indies? [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION]
 
AdamM97 said:
How so? Even Pakistan led by Imran Khan lost in the semi finals in the 1987 world cup despite being a really strong team. Kohli still has 1-2 world cups left to win it.
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Imran made 50 and took 3 wickets in that match
 
Hasan123 said:
May not be GOAT, but he is still a ATG regardless of his performances in ICC events. If he does not perform in the WC, he may not finish as the GOAT.
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Not by any means. Don't forget that most of the teams don't even take bilterals seriously these days. Compare the bowling attack Australia fielded in the pointless bilterals to the one they are fielding here on the big stage. Kohli has massacred mediocre bowlers on his way to the unbelievable stats that he has. He hasn't earned half of it. Screw his average of 60. I'd rate Sanath Jayasuriya with an average of 32 as a much better ODI batsman than Kohli.
 
Kohli cannot be classified as GOAT cricketer if he does not win his country a WC. Simple as that, he will be an Indian great and even amongst the ATG batsmen of the world, but not THE GOAT unless he wins a WC.
 
Madplayer said:
The stats are damning to be honest. He has maximum of 2 world cups left now. Even if he does well in them during knockouts, it will be 3 failures vs 2 successes.
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Don't know whether he'll play for 8 more years. He already suffers from too much workload so 2023 WC will be last chance but at 34 whether his form holds is even a bigger question.
 
BlueBeamer said:
To hell with a 60 avg when you **** the bed the only time it matters.....Sorry Kohli even as your fan I'd say your'e no GOAT, just another batsmen who failed to win us 2 trophies.
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The ODI average has lost its shine. In next decade we might have at least 5 more batsmen averaging 50+.
 
Kohli has been in poor form. Hence the uncharacteristic dismissals after scoring fifties.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
The ODI average has lost its shine. In next decade we might have at least 5 more batsmen averaging 50+.
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I don't know about another decade but even when better batting conditions maintaining 60 avg is no joke.

But sadly dude bottled another chance to truly make his mark as the greatest. Extremely poor stuff today.
 
Syed1 said:
Kohli cannot be classified as GOAT cricketer if he does not win his country a WC. Simple as that, he will be an Indian great and even amongst the ATG batsmen of the world, but not THE GOAT unless he wins a WC.
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It is a team game BUT he should do his part. He doesn't.
 
Mian said:
And what's the excuse for WC15 and CT17?
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Why should I give you excuses?

Are you telling me that pressure situations occur only during world cups? Kohli has rescued India from tough situations many times. It’s just that the World Cup is far more relevant than any of those. A bigger stage.
 
Kohli still is an ATG in ODIs no doubt. GOAT ??? That's a different matter altogether which depends on a lot of factors.
 
Hasan123 said:
I would take Kohli over Ponting and ABD still.
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Based on what? I don't value bilateral that highly anymore. I used to in the past, you know me. I changed my mind after seeing Australia play in last 6 months, they went from minnow level to world beaters just before WC. It shows that the top teams still value WC much, much higher than bilaterals (that includes India as well).

Kohli himself skips tons of bilateral series now. That's why this WC was so crucial for him, and he failed. India is out of a WC yet again, and his legacy is tainted. Next WC is his last chance to set things straight.
 
It's not just the fact that he has failed in crunch situations, it's the fact that he has SURRENDERED whenever the pressure is on.

1(13)
1(6)
5(9)
3(8)
9(21)

read some of his scores in ICC ODI Knockouts. You expect your best players to ATLEAST put up a fight. This guy has failed to do so again and again and again.

Not an ATG by any means, sorry.
 
BlueBeamer said:
Don't know whether he'll play for 8 more years. He already suffers from too much workload so 2023 WC will be last chance but at 34 whether his form holds is even a bigger question.
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You are right but i was trying to be more positive for Kohli because he is so fit. Lets see. But at the moment, things dont look good at all.

Kohli is twice the batsman Babar is but even Babar scored a 100 vs Kiwis in what was a virtual knock out. Babar also scored a good 45 vs India in CT final.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Based on what? I don't value bilateral that highly anymore. I used to in the past, you know me. I changed my mind after seeing Australia play in last 6 months, they went from minnow level to world beaters just before WC. It shows that the top teams still value WC much, much higher than bilaterals (that includes India as well).

Kohli himself skips tons of bilateral series now. That's why this WC was so crucial for him, and he failed. India is out of a WC yet again, and his legacy is tainted. Next WC is his last chance to set things straight.
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It's just my opinion. If you rate them higher that's fine. I think it's only on PP that Kohli legacy is tainted. The rest of the world will still rate him highly regardless of him winning a WC or not.
 
Mr.Q said:
Why should I give you excuses?

Are you telling me that pressure situations occur only during world cups? Kohli has rescued India from tough situations many times. It’s just that the World Cup is far more relevant than any of those. A bigger stage.
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Yes Inzamam performed in 92 world cup and in countless other pressure situations but still he is bashed for not performing in other world cups because world cup knockout matches are above everything if we talk about pressure situations
 
Proactive_ said:
It's not just the fact that he has failed in crunch situations, it's the fact that he has SURRENDERED whenever the pressure is on.

1(13)
1(6)
5(9)
3(8)
9(21)

read some of his scores in ICC ODI Knockouts. You expect your best players to ATLEAST put up a fight. This guy has failed to do so again and again and again.

Not an ATG by any means, sorry.
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agreed he is far off from his usual self in knock outs.But what about his 4 knocks in knock outs spread among champions trophy & world cup?
 
Tendulkar in World Cup semi-finals

1996 - 65 v Sri Lanka
2003 - 83 v Kenya
2011 - 85 v Pakistan

#CWC19 #TeamIndia

Kohli might make more runs or centuries than sachin but sachin is better than kohli during pressure matches
 
Belawal2014 said:
woops, it's what I meant. So basically he'll have 1 WC at the peak of his powers, let's see what he can do then.
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Babar in knockouts so far :

38* in a successful chase against England (CT 2017 semi final)

45 vs India (CT 2017 final)

69 vs SA (2019 world cup virtual knockout)

101* in a successful chase on a rank turner vs NZ (2019 world cup virtual knock out)

45 vs AFG in a successful run chase (2019 world cup virtual knock out).
 
K4Kohli said:
Tendulkar in World Cup semi-finals

1996 - 65 v Sri Lanka
2003 - 83 v Kenya
2011 - 85 v Pakistan

#CWC19 #TeamIndia

Kohli might make more runs or centuries than sachin but sachin is better than kohli during pressure matches
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But then Sachin record in final is worst of all players to ever play the game or something like that.
 
Pakhs said:
But then Sachin record in final is worst of all players to ever play the game or something like that.
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Yeah but Kohli has nothing to show in any Kock out games. Sachin has good scores in Quarters and Semis atleast.
 
This is the madness of people who are not really cricket fans but just nationalistic maniacs.

Kohli is a very good batsman, across all formats and in ODIs, one of the absolute best.

However, as I have always said (and been lambasted by the Indians and "Pakistanis" on here) he is not greater than Viv, Ponting or even Tendulkar...why? Because sport is more than just numbers. An average of 90? Wha tdoes it even mean in context? What matters if what one's eyes see out there on the field. Kohli does not hold his nerve in the truly great moments of a sporting great, other batsmen did.
 
Hasan123 said:
It's just my opinion. If you rate them higher that's fine. I think it's only on PP that Kohli legacy is tainted. The rest of the world will still rate him highly regardless of him winning a WC or not.
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He's still rated highly. However he was in contention for being the GOAT in ODIs. And it's not just PP, it's also on Reddit. People aren't ignoring the stats, everybody is aware.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/cbeyjx/interesting_statistic/

3rd post from the top on r/Cricket today.
 
it is strange as to how people make their own yardsticks to down grade an ATG ODI player. Nitpicking stats for their own convenience. This, despite the fact that even 'clutch' is a relative team depending on the circumstances. Kohli has 4 knock out inns in ICC multi nation tournaments which proves he record is ok.But based on his own usual standards he has been below par. That's all
 
The thing which is most alarming is Kohli getting out in single digits. He edged the ball in two consecutive balls in the CT final and now again he's out for 1 run.

Overall, a pretty bad world cup for Virat Kohli. He may never have a great world cup. Next time, he will be 34 and past his prime. I do not see him playing the 2017 edition.
 
The_Odd_One said:
The thing which is most alarming is Kohli getting out in single digits. He edged the ball in two consecutive balls in the CT final and now again he's out for 1 run.

Overall, a pretty bad world cup for Virat Kohli. He may never have a great world cup. Next time, he will be 34 and past his prime. I do not see him playing the 2017 edition.
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He is already losing steam. When was the last time have you seen him dominating bowlers mercilessly, pointless bilateral averages aside? He can't play aggressively anymore, and he has learned to play under pressure either.
 
Madplayer said:
You are right but i was trying to be more positive for Kohli because he is so fit. Lets see. But at the moment, things dont look good at all.

Kohli is twice the batsman Babar is but even Babar scored a 100 vs Kiwis in what was a virtual knock out. Babar also scored a good 45 vs India in CT final.
Click to expand...

Babar has performed like a champ this tourney. In a stronger team he can express himself more freely.

Lot of good things in store for him.
 
90% of India believes Kohli is a bottler in any knockouts/deciders (tests/odis) not just good enough to be called a match winner
 
Proactive_ said:
It's not just the fact that he has failed in crunch situations, it's the fact that he has SURRENDERED whenever the pressure is on.

1(13)
1(6)
5(9)
3(8)
9(21)

read some of his scores in ICC ODI Knockouts. You expect your best players to ATLEAST put up a fight. This guy has failed to do so again and again and again.

Not an ATG by any means, sorry.
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Ok duly noted, but whats your excuse for his match winning innings in ct 2013?
I know you are here to push your agenda, you said he"ll fail in England test series and he avgd 60,highest scorer in sa series as well, but instead of admitting that he proved u wrong you were applying meaningkess filters to downgrade his performances.
And yeah even though he may not be a GOAT but still he is 10 times the odi player dravid ever was and has won a world cup unlike rahul.
He will retire as the second best batsman from india behind sachin.
 
Last edited:
jeeteshssaxena said:
Ok duly noted, but whats your excuse for his match winning innings in ct 2013?
I know you are here to push your agenda, you said he"ll fail in England test series and he avgd 60,highest scorer in sa series as well, but instead of admitting that he proved u wrong you were applying meaningkess filters to downgrade his performances.
And yeah even though he may not be a GOAT but still he is 10 times the odi player dravid ever was and has won a world cup unlike rahul.
He will retire as the second best batsman from india behind sachin.
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well said.... it is laughable to see some of these knee jerk OTT reactions ...... Kohli won India the champions trophy 2013(top scorer in both semi & final), played a vital 35 in the 2011 world cup final, a 96* in 2017 champions trophy semi.He won the first abroad bilateral series in SAF & AUS for India.All of a sudden he does not deserve to be even an ATG. Agreed he has been far below his normal self, yet this is too much
 
satheesh said:
well said.... it is laughable to see some of these knee jerk OTT reactions ...... Kohli won India the champions trophy 2013(top scorer in both semi & final), played a vital 35 in the 2011 world cup final, a 96* in 2017 champions trophy semi.He won the first abroad bilateral series in SAF & AUS for India.All of a sudden he does not deserve to be even an ATG. Agreed he has been far below his normal self, yet this is too much
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Those who're saying he's not even an ATG are pure haters, Kohli is most definitely an ATG in both ODIs and T20s. It's only his GOAT status has diminished significantly.
 
lehen said:
90% of India believes Kohli is a bottler in any knockouts/deciders (tests/odis) not just good enough to be called a match winner
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Did you conduct a suvery w.r.t this ?. Kohli still is an ATG batsman. He has 4 knock out inns in ICC tournaments.
 
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