jnaveen1980
ODI Captain
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2016
- Runs
- 45,075
Nobody has to "accept" whatever you say. It is an opinion.
-
Contact the PP Team
Viv Richards vs Virat Kohli vs Sachin Tendulkar vs Ricky Ponting - Who is the GOAT in ODIs?
- Thread starter Suleiman
- Start date
Nobody has to "accept" whatever you say. It is an opinion.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
- Runs
- 27,247
- Post of the Week
- 3
If you are not the best during your playing days, then you don't belong in discussion of best of all time.
Ponting in ODI: Avg 42 SR 80
Many batsmen did better than Ponting in period 1095-2012 when he played. Ponting never had to face Aus and others faced Aus and still outperformed Ponting.
Simply said, Ponting was a very good batsman in ODI but does not belong in this discussion.
Ponting in ODI: Avg 42 SR 80
Many batsmen did better than Ponting in period 1095-2012 when he played. Ponting never had to face Aus and others faced Aus and still outperformed Ponting.
Simply said, Ponting was a very good batsman in ODI but does not belong in this discussion.
daytrader
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Runs
- 10,727
- Post of the Week
- 1
Tendulkar was the best. He carried a weak team.
If he too had the likes of McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Bevan in the line up he would've been much more dominating. The little maestro any day out of this list.
If he too had the likes of McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Bevan in the line up he would've been much more dominating. The little maestro any day out of this list.
Statpadder Inc
Local Club Regular
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2023
- Runs
- 1,560
He played 4 tests against akram when he was 16 lol.
Tendu averaged 47 in 2000 series played in aus against McGrath, his stats are hurt because he played through a serious injury in 2004
So according to you Indians are the best in everything? Good luck.
Was being generous but I have no qualms about that statement either
Gilchrist also failed many semi finals btw. He performed in finals however.
batandballbattle
Local Club Captain
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2020
- Runs
- 2,383
Ponting
Tendulkar
Richards
Kohli
Ponting is easily the top pick due to being a serial winner. Some might say he was carried by a generational team, but he was a key part of their success and one of the main reasons why that era of Australian cricket is still spoke about with such awe. 3 WCS in a row, two as captain whilst going unbeaten through the ENTIRETY(!) of those 2 WCs, and all three away from home. Oh, and add two CT trophies just for fun.
Tendulkar goes one below due to his inferior tournament returns, but was still hugely important despite winning less trophies. He carried the Indian team on his back throughout the 90s and is arguably the easiest on the eye out of the four. His straight drives were poetry in motion. He had to wait until the twilight of his career to finally get cricket's biggest prize, but throughout his amazingly long and consistent career you could never really pin the blame on him for any of India's WC exits.
Viv goes third due to how influential he was. You can easily say that without his forward thinking batting in an era where 220 was a competitive score, you would not have had the modern mould of batsmen like you do today. The most fearless of the bunch who took on any and all pacemen without a helmet, that too with matchstick bats, longer boundaries and less batsman favoured rules. Won 2 WCs B2B, which would have been three if not for a historic upset. Again like with Ponting he was a key reason for a golden generation, but he remains third due to lower quality of bowling overall compared to what Sachin and Ponting faced.
Kohli goes last, which is not to say he isn't a fantastic player, just not as good as the above three. Overall ODI bowling quality is definitely lower than it was in the 90s/00s, and batsmen now benefit from favourable rule changes. But even considering that he is still amazingly consistent, just not maybe consistent enough on the bigger stages, owing to India's trophy drought.
Tendulkar
Richards
Kohli
Ponting is easily the top pick due to being a serial winner. Some might say he was carried by a generational team, but he was a key part of their success and one of the main reasons why that era of Australian cricket is still spoke about with such awe. 3 WCS in a row, two as captain whilst going unbeaten through the ENTIRETY(!) of those 2 WCs, and all three away from home. Oh, and add two CT trophies just for fun.
Tendulkar goes one below due to his inferior tournament returns, but was still hugely important despite winning less trophies. He carried the Indian team on his back throughout the 90s and is arguably the easiest on the eye out of the four. His straight drives were poetry in motion. He had to wait until the twilight of his career to finally get cricket's biggest prize, but throughout his amazingly long and consistent career you could never really pin the blame on him for any of India's WC exits.
Viv goes third due to how influential he was. You can easily say that without his forward thinking batting in an era where 220 was a competitive score, you would not have had the modern mould of batsmen like you do today. The most fearless of the bunch who took on any and all pacemen without a helmet, that too with matchstick bats, longer boundaries and less batsman favoured rules. Won 2 WCs B2B, which would have been three if not for a historic upset. Again like with Ponting he was a key reason for a golden generation, but he remains third due to lower quality of bowling overall compared to what Sachin and Ponting faced.
Kohli goes last, which is not to say he isn't a fantastic player, just not as good as the above three. Overall ODI bowling quality is definitely lower than it was in the 90s/00s, and batsmen now benefit from favourable rule changes. But even considering that he is still amazingly consistent, just not maybe consistent enough on the bigger stages, owing to India's trophy drought.
Can't have it both ways. Bowling quality is much better now but yes viv played in a bowler friendly era.
Viv is far ahead of kohli
rpant_gabba
First Class Player
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2023
- Runs
- 2,735
john emburey once bowled a 3 run last over to Viv in ODI.
Viv is awsome against pace. horrendous against spin.
Today's spinners will eat him alive
sweep_shot
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 43,693
Are you concluding that Viv was terrible against spin based on 1 over from Embury?
Tendulkar also struggled against Kenya's Thomas Odoyo once. He struggled against Zimbabwe's Henry Olonga also (once). Does that mean Tendulkar couldn't play pace?
Come up with a better logic. There is no indication that current spinners "will eat him alive".
sweep_shot
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 43,693
Correction: The Kenyan bowler was Joseph Angara (not Thomas Odoyo). Here was the scorecard: https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...india-vs-kenya-6th-match-66103/full-scorecard.
@rpant_gabba
rpant_gabba
First Class Player
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2023
- Runs
- 2,735
Viv's inability to play spin is well documented and have personally witnessed it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hitman
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 16,633
He is someone who argues that the bowling attack that Sangakkara faced in his career was better than the one Tendulkar faced in the 90's. Also that averages matter only in batting, in bowling it's the number of wickets that matter, not average.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sanga was mediocre against most top sides.
Has he even won a game in aus or India in tests? Maybe 1 or 2 max
Hitman
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 16,633
Sri Lanka has not won a Test in India till date.
rpant_gabba
First Class Player
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2023
- Runs
- 2,735
he had that one inning s of 192 against Aus in aus
jnaveen1980
ODI Captain
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2016
- Runs
- 45,075
VIv was a pioneer. I am sure everyone agrees with that. Batting evolved over the years. Viv is not going to average 100 in this era with a strike rate of 200. He will roughly have the same stat as Kohli at best. Viv had two pillars in his side. Greenidge and Haynes. Those three were far and above everyone in the world. There was nobody remotely like them. Gavaskar in this era would not have been picked even for Mumbai team to represent Vijay Hazare. He was India's opener. Dean Jones, Zaheer Abbas were the only half decent top order batsmen. Team itself was an elite team. Bowlers from other teams had one good bowler at best. In some cases two. Bowling unit (emphasizing the word UNIT) was poor from all countries. You can play out one bowler and go after 3 or 4 other bowlers. Being a pioneer he is always going to be rated high which is fair. But Punter in this discussion is really comical lol First half of 2000s no.1 batsman n the world was Michael Bevan. ALmost every year.
Swashbuckler
First Class Captain
- Joined
- May 19, 2017
- Runs
- 4,672
- Post of the Week
- 3
Viv easily. Kohli had a chance to come close on November 19th but he blew it.
Sachin, Villiers, Ponting, Dhoni will come after these two.
Viv is from another dimension in ODI cricket. If someone today can average 60 at a strike rate of 120, we can talk.
Sachin, Villiers, Ponting, Dhoni will come after these two.
Viv is from another dimension in ODI cricket. If someone today can average 60 at a strike rate of 120, we can talk.
Statpadder Inc
Local Club Regular
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2023
- Runs
- 1,560
Viv
Kohli
Sachin
Ab
Ponting
Rohit
Dhoni
Bevan
Jayasuriya
Sangakkara
Kohli
Sachin
Ab
Ponting
Rohit
Dhoni
Bevan
Jayasuriya
Sangakkara
Ab Fan
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2015
- Runs
- 27,566
Viv for me is the best ever. That average + strike rate combination is a sign of a true GOAT.
Kohli has maintained Viv's adjusted average for this era but Viv would probably be striking at 110 if he played in Kohli's era( 2008 onwards).
Basically, if the 4 names mentioned in OP played in same era( say, 2008 onwards), the stats would have been :-
Viv - Avg 57, SR 110
SRT - Avg 57, SR 100
Kohli - Avg 58, SR 93
Ponting - Avg 55, SR 93
Additionally,
ABD - Avg 55, SR 105
Two of them have performances in WC Final, two of them have player of tournament award in World Cup while AB was one of the top performers of 2015 World Cup.
My order would be :-
1. Viv
2. Kohli
3. SRT
4. ABD/Ponting( personally would pick ABD ahead as I believe his strike rate was well ahead of Ponting even after adjusting the era gap but Ponting had a dominant hundered vs India in WC Final tol albeit on a belter with platform being laid by Gilchrist in Johannesburg vs okayish bowling attack)
Kohli has maintained Viv's adjusted average for this era but Viv would probably be striking at 110 if he played in Kohli's era( 2008 onwards).
Basically, if the 4 names mentioned in OP played in same era( say, 2008 onwards), the stats would have been :-
Viv - Avg 57, SR 110
SRT - Avg 57, SR 100
Kohli - Avg 58, SR 93
Ponting - Avg 55, SR 93
Additionally,
ABD - Avg 55, SR 105
Two of them have performances in WC Final, two of them have player of tournament award in World Cup while AB was one of the top performers of 2015 World Cup.
My order would be :-
1. Viv
2. Kohli
3. SRT
4. ABD/Ponting( personally would pick ABD ahead as I believe his strike rate was well ahead of Ponting even after adjusting the era gap but Ponting had a dominant hundered vs India in WC Final tol albeit on a belter with platform being laid by Gilchrist in Johannesburg vs okayish bowling attack)
Your argument for Viv being the greatest is the same one that I have. His strike rate is just so far ahead of his time that it’s almost unreal to think about. He played nearly 40 years ago but with those exact stats he could still walk into any team today.
Similar threads
