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"Waqar Younis would 'cheat' with the ball" : Mohammad Asif

MenInG

MenInG

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Mohammad Asif speaking in an interview:

"The reverse swing that Waqar Younis used to get, we in Punjabi call it 'dabbee ball'; He only learnt to use the new ball when he was close to retirement; Before that he would cheat with the ball"

"He has been associated with the side for past 20 years and given he is a master of reverse-swing, then at least he should have brought to the fore one reverse swing bowler; He had so much experience of bowling and was a master of reverse swing bowling"

"I have now idea what our coaches are doing? We have a lot of bowlers but what seems to be happening is that after 2-3 games, we replace them with a new bowler"

"They keep on saying lets find Young Talent but seems we are getting quantity but no quality coming through"

"We have a collection of 8-10 fast bowlers and seem to replace them at will without any thought"

"The reason we are bringing in young lads is because the coaches want someone who can stay under their thumbs"
 
He is right. Waqar is the biggest beneficiary of ball-tampering in history.

He would have been an ordinary bowler today. Asif was a much better and skilled bowler.
 
In modern era, Anderson would have schooled Waqar on how to swing the bowl.
 
Greatest Pakistani fast bowlers of all time:

1. Wasim
2. Imran
3. Asif
4. Akhtar
5. Fazal
 
Ab Fan said:
Asif should not be categorised among greats.

Wasim
Imran
Fazal
Akhtar
Waqar
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He should be purely based on his talent and skill. He is easily one of the greatest bowlers Pakistan has every produced. It is a complete shame that he wasn’t focused on his career and didn’t get 500 Test wickets which were well within his reach.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Captain obvious
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Unfortunately it's not obvious to the masses, pundits and administrators in Pakistan who keep asking for 2Ws in coaching roles. The 2Ws were great servants of Pakistan cricket without doubt.

However they've proven to be awful coaches/mentors because they were largely naturally gifted bowlers, especially Wasim who was the better of the two. Taking those gifts, explaining the technical processes of bowling to the younger generation is another matter, and where both struggle as we hear from their painfully limited commentary, and Waqar's multiple failed stints as Pakistan bowling coach.

Secondly, the famous banana swing they used to generate was greatly assisted by illegal methods, which often went undetected by limited television coverage, and home umpires turned a blind eye. There's a reason why such swing is impossible to replicate today, not because current day bowlers are any less skilled.

Asif was arguably the most skilled new ball bowler along with Wasim in history of Pakistan cricket. The way he used to set up batsmen was like watching an artist put together a masterpiece on the canvas. Sadly, Asif is the Poster Boy of a Pakistani cricketer destroying his career through lack of self-discipline - making him a poor role model and someone we shouldn't put on a pedestal either despite his bowling brain.
 
Ball tampering or not, I've never rated Waqar Younis. The world goes ga-ga over him but he was an overrated bowler. I'm pretty sure if you looked at his last 8-9 years, even guys like Caddick, Gough, Srinath would have had a better record than him. Waqar would probably be on par with Heath Streak if you looked at the records. Today, Waqar would have been the modern day equivalent of maybe Mark Wood. There was nothing to his bowling except pace. And his pace declined massively after 1996. Sure he was very very good in his first 3-4 years in international cricket but after that his performances declined massively.
 
shariqnoor said:
Ball tampering or not, I've never rated Waqar Younis. The world goes ga-ga over him but he was an overrated bowler. I'm pretty sure if you looked at his last 8-9 years, even guys like Caddick, Gough, Srinath would have had a better record than him. Waqar would probably be on par with Heath Streak if you looked at the records. Today, Waqar would have been the modern day equivalent of maybe Mark Wood. There was nothing to his bowling except pace. And his pace declined massively after 1996. Sure he was very very good in his first 3-4 years in international cricket but after that his performances declined massively.
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Nothing but the truth.
 
In other news, water is wet.

Fair point about Waqar's coaching too. Hasn't produced a single bowler under his wing.
 
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Mamoon said:
Greatest Pakistani fast bowlers of all time:

1. Wasim
2. Imran
3. Asif
4. Akhtar
5. Fazal
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Where would you put Sarfraz Nawaz ? Despite an overall Test average of 32 (29 in the 1970s), and his crazy post-retirement statements, he was the godfather of reverse swing and mentor to likes of Imran Khan who admits he learned a lot from him.

I feel Sarfraz's record and legacy would be better remembered if he had a better captain than defensive Intikhab Alam, more seam friendly pitches at home instead of graveyards, and less emotional instability from his part.
 
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I think back in the day, everything went under the radar. There was hardly any scrutiny from a million broadcast high quality cameras zoning in on every nook and cranny of the field like when Bancroft got caught red handed.

Starc would have been an absolute legend in test cricket had he played in the 80s or 90s. With the tightening up of rules in the current era, things have become difficult not just for the pacers but also for the spinners where the doosra has almost become obsolete from the game.
 
MenInG said:
Mohammad Asif speaking in an interview:

"The reverse swing that Waqar Younis used to get, we in Punjabi call it 'dabbee ball'; He only learnt to use the new ball when he was close to retirement; Before that he would cheat with the ball"

"He has been associated with the side for past 20 years and given he is a master of reverse-swing, then at least he should have brought to the fore one reverse swing bowler; He had so much experience of bowling and was a master of reverse swing bowling"

"I have now idea what our coaches are doing? We have a lot of bowlers but what seems to be happening is that after 2-3 games, we replace them with a new bowler"

"They keep on saying lets find Young Talent but seems we are getting quantity but no quality coming through"

"We have a collection of 8-10 fast bowlers and seem to replace them at will without any thought"

"The reason we are bringing in young lads is because the coaches want someone who can stay under their thumbs"
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Surprisingly articulative points.

Hits the bullseye just like his bowling.
 
Where are those who said ball tampering is worse than fixing? Looks like Waqar is worse than Amir,Butt,and Asif.
 
Markhor said:
Where would you put Sarfraz Nawaz ? Despite an overall Test average of 32 (29 in the 1970s), and his crazy post-retirement statements, he was the godfather of reverse swing and mentor to likes of Imran Khan who admits he learned a lot from him.

I feel Sarfraz's record and legacy would be better remembered if he had a better captain than defensive Intikhab Alam, more seam friendly pitches at home instead of graveyards, and less emotional instability from his part.
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It is difficult to rank him because he pioneered the art of doctoring balls but he wasn’t as good as Waqar when it came to utilizing tampered balls, and in terms of conventional skill, he was not comparable to Wasim and Imran.

It is also hard to imagine him matching Asif’s skill with an undoctored ball.
 
As Imran K stated many world bowlers tampered with the ball in pre-Waqar international playing days and even during Waqar days. You had to nail those yorkers precisely at good pace to be as devastating as Waqar delivered them. Boycot did say Wasim and Waqar were so skilled they could bowl out teams with oranges. So enough of this sour grape statements. Waqar was a brilliant bowler.
 
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shariqnoor said:
Ball tampering or not, I've never rated Waqar Younis. The world goes ga-ga over him but he was an overrated bowler. I'm pretty sure if you looked at his last 8-9 years, even guys like Caddick, Gough, Srinath would have had a better record than him. Waqar would probably be on par with Heath Streak if you looked at the records. Today, Waqar would have been the modern day equivalent of maybe Mark Wood. There was nothing to his bowling except pace. And his pace declined massively after 1996. Sure he was very very good in his first 3-4 years in international cricket but after that his performances declined massively.
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Hough has admitted to scuffing ball in various ways by him and England bowlers too to get reverse swing, and it did not make him more devastating than Waqar pre injury.
 
The audacity of few over here. World's greatest players rate Waqar as one of the best ever. Guess what the maniacs know better.
 
To be fair - Waqar was exceptional from 1990-95. Even without ball tampering , he wud have been an elite ODI bowler , given his ability to bowl accurate 90 mph Yorkers at will like Malinga / Bumrah. Although he probably wud not have been so successful in test cricket

After 1995 he became an average bowler due to his loss of pace & his limited new ball skills. Stats will show he did well , but he was no more the same force any more ( barring that series in England in 2001 )
 
Too much disrespect on this thread for a legend like waqar.
Alot of bowlers tampered with balls funny how not many of them could get the reverse swing he did. If it was that easy why couldn't every one do it?
 
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Markhor said:
Unfortunately it's not obvious to the masses, pundits and administrators in Pakistan who keep asking for 2Ws in coaching roles. The 2Ws were great servants of Pakistan cricket without doubt.

However they've proven to be awful coaches/mentors because they were largely naturally gifted bowlers, especially Wasim who was the better of the two. Taking those gifts, explaining the technical processes of bowling to the younger generation is another matter, and where both struggle as we hear from their painfully limited commentary, and Waqar's multiple failed stints as Pakistan bowling coach.

Secondly, the famous banana swing they used to generate was greatly assisted by illegal methods, which often went undetected by limited television coverage, and home umpires turned a blind eye. There's a reason why such swing is impossible to replicate today, not because current day bowlers are any less skilled.

Asif was arguably the most skilled new ball bowler along with Wasim in history of Pakistan cricket. The way he used to set up batsmen was like watching an artist put together a masterpiece on the canvas. Sadly, Asif is the Poster Boy of a Pakistani cricketer destroying his career through lack of self-discipline - making him a poor role model and someone we shouldn't put on a pedestal either despite his bowling brain.
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Asif imo was no mug with the old ball either and could still seam it. Overall he is arguably top 2 most from Pak purely on his skills and bowling brain, had he played longer I think he would have got even better. It’s bizarre to think how Pak managed to lose out on him and also the dream bowling pair of Akhtar and Asif, in 2007 Pak surely would have done much much better with these two in the team
 
When I think of absolutely terrifying pace, I think of Marshall in 1984 and Waqar in 1992. He made Wasim look slow.

Even in the 1996 England series he was still bowling hand grenades.
 
Top 10 Pakistani Fast Bowlers:

1: Wasim
2. Imran
3. Fazal
4. Akhtar
5. Asif
6. Amir
7. Gul
8. Wahab
9. Waqar
10. Sarfraz
 
Waqar Younis would cheat the ball? So, what... his fast-bowling legacy is tarnished or something? Apart from Waqar and other coaches not being able to produce good fast bowlers on a consistent basis, what's the message being put out here?
 
As Geoff Boycott once said Waqar (and wasim) could bowl you out with an orange. At that point in time he made the most of what was available to him, 99.5% of bowlers wouldn't even know what to do if you gave them a ball and a bottle top, that was a skill within itself.

As a coach i would agree though, he doesn't bring anything to the table. But seeing some rankings now, he is easily top 5 fast bowlers of all time if you asked actual players and coaches from his era, however the knowledgeable pp armchair fans will rate him as low as 9th in Paks all time fast bowling list :))
 
Lol, let's see if WY takes legal action here. This is not a comment he can ignore.

BTW if Waqar was guilty of bowling with tampered balls at his peak, then why are no fingers being pointed at Wasim?
 
Show some respect for the last pak pace bowler to get 200 test wckts, because that record won’t be beaten anytime soon !!
 
Markhor said:
Unfortunately it's not obvious to the masses, pundits and administrators in Pakistan who keep asking for 2Ws in coaching roles. The 2Ws were great servants of Pakistan cricket without doubt.

However they've proven to be awful coaches/mentors because they were largely naturally gifted bowlers, especially Wasim who was the better of the two. Taking those gifts, explaining the technical processes of bowling to the younger generation is another matter, and where both struggle as we hear from their painfully limited commentary, and Waqar's multiple failed stints as Pakistan bowling coach.

Secondly, the famous banana swing they used to generate was greatly assisted by illegal methods, which often went undetected by limited television coverage, and home umpires turned a blind eye. There's a reason why such swing is impossible to replicate today, not because current day bowlers are any less skilled.

Asif was arguably the most skilled new ball bowler along with Wasim in history of Pakistan cricket. The way he used to set up batsmen was like watching an artist put together a masterpiece on the canvas. Sadly, Asif is the Poster Boy of a Pakistani cricketer destroying his career through lack of self-discipline - making him a poor role model and someone we shouldn't put on a pedestal either despite his bowling brain.
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Wasim has had a good tenure with KKR as a bowling coach. Once he left, KKR's pacers performance took a hit under Brett Lee. Yes, he only talks about flick of the wrist, but there is definitely more to that to him that he may not be able to articulate well on the mic.
 
Robert said:
When I think of absolutely terrifying pace, I think of Marshall in 1984 and Waqar in 1992. He made Wasim look slow.

Even in the 1996 England series he was still bowling hand grenades.
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Between 1989 and 1992 he was absolutely lightening quick.

Yes he got a lot of wickets with the older ball but he also had a good away swinger with the new ball, even prior to his losing speed.

People tend to forget that Wasim would usually open with Aqib and Waqar would usually be brought on after the ball was ten overs old or more.

Sure he may not be a good coach but let's not demean a Pakistani great just because a lot of the kids here only started watching the game from the late 90's onwards.
 
Waqar's reputation as a bowling coach is interfering with his reputation as a bowler by the angry posters and the young fans.

Waqar may not know the fundamentals of coaching and may be a poor man manager and Asif may be correct to point out if Waqar used to reverse the bowl via tampering but that is Asif who knows hell of a lot about swing and seam and none of the posters on PP throwing vitriol for the sake of spewing venom cause of hatred towards the man.

Whoever saw him bowl till his first injury knows how good and ferocious he was with both new and old ball. Those banana swings with the older ball may or may not have been due to tampered ball, but bowling and controlling the new ball takes skill.
Natwest series 2000-01 of Pak, Eng and Aus was one of the last great series from our pacers, Waqar took a 7fer and a 6fer in successive games against England and Australia if I remember correctly, including an inswinging first ball wicket against a red hot Trescothick.
 
NishanKonar said:
Lol. Bowl tampering is no way comparable to fixing !
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Ball tampering is worse than spot-fixing for sure. Spot-fixing has no bearing on the outcome of the game, while ball tampering directly impacts the results and let's you cheat to a win. As a fan, I would feel WAY MORE cheated if an opposition player tampers with the ball vs if they deliberately bowl a no-ball for some $$$.

Just because spot-fixing involved an exchange of money, people tend to see it as a bigger evil. Ball tampering illegally influenced the entire outcome of the game.
 
Snowflake said:
Ball tampering is worse than spot-fixing for sure. Spot-fixing has no bearing on the outcome of the game, while ball tampering directly impacts the results and let's you cheat to a win. As a fan, I would feel WAY MORE cheated if an opposition player tampers with the ball vs if they deliberately bowl a no-ball for some $$$.

Just because spot-fixing involved an exchange of money, people tend to see it as a bigger evil. Ball tampering illegally influenced the entire outcome of the game.
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Imran Khan is worse than Sharjeel? Interesting.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Waqar's reputation as a bowling coach is interfering with his reputation as a bowler by the angry posters and the young fans.

Waqar may not know the fundamentals of coaching and may be a poor man manager and Asif may be correct to point out if Waqar used to reverse the bowl via tampering but that is Asif who knows hell of a lot about swing and seam and none of the posters on PP throwing vitriol for the sake of spewing venom cause of hatred towards the man.

Whoever saw him bowl till his first injury knows how good and ferocious he was with both new and old ball. Those banana swings with the older ball may or may not have been due to tampered ball, but bowling and controlling the new ball takes skill.
Natwest series 2000-01 of Pak, Eng and Aus was one of the last great series from our pacers, Waqar took a 7fer and a 6fer in successive games against England and Australia if I remember correctly, including an inswinging first ball wicket against a red hot Trescothick.
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His bowling with the new ball 2000 onwards was great. He also bowled really well in the 2000 Sharjah Cup and his twin strikes (including getting Ganguly LBW for 0) with a semi-new ball gave Pakistan a pathway in the 2003 World Cup match.

Not to mention his bowling in the Morocco Cup in 2002.

However, those banana yorkers were not possible without a heavily doctored ball, and he took a good decade to learn how to use the new ball effectively.
 
Snowflake said:
Ball tampering is worse than spot-fixing for sure. Spot-fixing has no bearing on the outcome of the game, while ball tampering directly impacts the results and let's you cheat to a win. As a fan, I would feel WAY MORE cheated if an opposition player tampers with the ball vs if they deliberately bowl a no-ball for some $$$.

Just because spot-fixing involved an exchange of money, people tend to see it as a bigger evil. Ball tampering illegally influenced the entire outcome of the game.
Click to expand...

Spot-fixing can potentially influence the outcome of the match. When Amir and Asif bowled no-balls in the first innings of the Lord’s Test, they deliberately conceded 2 runs. What would have happened if Pakistan would have lost that Test by 2 runs?

Moreover, if you are deliberately bowling no-balls, you could dismiss the batsmen on those bowls and they could go on to play a match-defining knock by capitalizing on that reprieve.

Similarly, when Sharjeel played two dot balls in PSL 2017, he risked losing the match.

Spot-fixing is a much bigger crime than tampering because you are cheating your own teammates and potentially sabotaging your team’s chances of winning by deliberately conceding runs or playing our dots or throwing your wicket away.

That is why a spot-fixer always receives a harsher punishment than a tamperer. Ball-tampering is cheating, but you are cheating the opponents and increasing the chances of your team winning the match. It cannot be a greater offense than spot-fixing.
 
Mamoon said:
Spot-fixing can potentially influence the outcome of the match. When Amir and Asif bowled no-balls in the first innings of the Lord’s Test, they deliberately conceded 2 runs. What would have happened if Pakistan would have lost that Test by 2 runs?

Moreover, if you are deliberately bowling no-balls, you could dismiss the batsmen on those bowls and they could go on to play a match-defining knock by capitalizing on that reprieve.

Similarly, when Sharjeel played two dot balls in PSL 2017, he risked losing the match.

Spot-fixing is a much bigger crime than tampering because you are cheating your own teammates and potentially sabotaging your team’s chances of winning by deliberately conceding runs or playing our dots or throwing your wicket away.

That is why a spot-fixer always receives a harsher punishment than a tamperer. Ball-tampering is cheating, but you are cheating the opponents and increasing the chances of your team winning the match. It cannot be a greater offense than spot-fixing.
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People often miss the most important part. Spot Fixing was not about those 2 no balls. Asif & Amit bowled those 2 no balls to show their loyalty to that bookmaker Majeed

Majeed wanted to show that he has Pakistani layers on board for fixing future matches whenever required. As proof of concept he asked them to bowl 2 no balls - and they duly did
 
IMMY69 said:
Between 1989 and 1992 he was absolutely lightening quick.

Yes he got a lot of wickets with the older ball but he also had a good away swinger with the new ball, even prior to his losing speed.

People tend to forget that Wasim would usually open with Aqib and Waqar would usually be brought on after the ball was ten overs old or more.

Sure he may not be a good coach but let's not demean a Pakistani great just because a lot of the kids here only started watching the game from the late 90's onwards.
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Fair. He came in 1st change in ODIs but I always saw him open in tests.
 
Robert said:
Fair. He came in 1st change in ODIs but I always saw him open in tests.
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No mate not until his later years, once Aqib was out and Waqar remodelled his action.
Throughout the 1992 Test series he was first change until the final oval test when he was finally back in full form after his injuries. He picked up three or four wickets opening the bowling
 
90% of people who think Waqar is overrated were either not born and were in their diapers in the 90s.
 
The 1992 Test series in England was witness to the most shameless and blatant exhibition of ball-tampering ever. It was a complete farce.
 
It’s amusing how people can criticise Waqar Younis.

One can critique him all day and night, yet it doesn’t change the fact he has achieved more in his playing days than most.

Bottle caps or grinders, the wickets still stand.
 
This is poor from Asif. Why say things about one of your greats? It doesn't matter even of there is any truth in it and some one caught for fixing to point fingers at others for cheating is a bit rich.
 
jusarrived said:
This is poor from Asif. Why say things about one of your greats? It doesn't matter even of there is any truth in it and some one caught for fixing to point fingers at others for cheating is a bit rich.
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Asif has the right to feel aggrieved because he should have had another chance like Amir. PCB ignored Asif because of his age but the irony is that it was brought back alongside Amir in 2016, Asif would have ended up playing more Tests than Amir.

Moreover, Pakistani fans who are unaware of the history of ball-tampering in Pakistan and the role it played in Waqar’s success need to be made aware of the fact that Asif was a better and more skilled Test bowler than Waqar.
 
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More rubbish from people trying to rewrite history. The Waqar pre injury was a freak of nature and he wasn't bad afterwards. If Waqar didn't reverse swing, he would have learnt to swing the new ball much earlier and he would have been even more deadly. Great Bowlers adapt and Waqar was a great bowler.
 
Why is this convicted prisoner who also has a history of drug abuse being given any importance.

He seems to be an extremely toxic person when ever I have listened to his unter, the trio of 2010 are competing with other in terms toxicity.

One convicted prisoner is calling out an ex player to be a cheat another prisoner isnt comfortable with the team management and so doesn't want to play, Now waiting for Nasir Jamshed, Khalid Latif, Sharjeel Khan, Umar Akmal, Danish Kaneria, Saleem Malik to come in public and say out loud how they were poorly treated, how people around them cheated yet only they were caught, how others around them were injust towards them, how they were innocent and mazloom and did what ever they did only by mistake without realising it wasn't legal. There is a reason why any court of justice doesn't take the words of criminals and prisoners to be true and these men just keep proving it, again and again.

All these guys Akmals, Kanerias, Malik's, Amir's , Asifs and butts are the same soul in different skin.
 
Most ex players regard waqar among one of the best , asif is just a bitter clown , seems to be taken sarfraz nawaz crown in talking bongian.

Yes waqar as a coach is suspect but to question his legacy as a fast bowler is just ridiculous, people clearly never saw this guy bowl who hold such a rubbish view .
 
anonymous_guy said:
Why is this convicted prisoner who also has a history of drug abuse being given any importance.

He seems to be an extremely toxic person when ever I have listened to his unter, the trio of 2010 are competing with other in terms toxicity.

One convicted prisoner is calling out an ex player to be a cheat another prisoner isnt comfortable with the team management and so doesn't want to play, Now waiting for Nasir Jamshed, Khalid Latif, Sharjeel Khan, Umar Akmal, Danish Kaneria, Saleem Malik to come in public and say out loud how they were poorly treated, how people around them cheated yet only they were caught, how others around them were injust towards them, how they were innocent and mazloom and did what ever they did only by mistake without realising it wasn't legal. There is a reason why any court of justice doesn't take the words of criminals and prisoners to be true and these men just keep proving it, again and again.

All these guys Akmals, Kanerias, Malik's, Amir's , Asifs and butts are the same soul in different skin.
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Excellent points- if you look at all these losers, they always blame someone else for their short careers, its never their fault. Asif had talent to do something with his career but instead showed that he was a total ******.
 
I would listen intently to everything Asif says. He comes across as a straight shooter, although with a penchant for shooting himself in the foot too at times.
 
I fully trust in future an armchair expert will start a thread possibly in 2040! referring to Asif as an overrated drugy & cheat who bowled a few good balls here & there & not even have him in the top 10 Pakistani bowlers!
I watched both Waqar & Asif bowl
Waqar was amongst the very best in his generation & Asif probably the best in his as he had the brains (on field) & made the bowl talk like no other ,
 
Varun said:
I would listen intently to everything Asif says. He comes across as a straight shooter, although with a penchant for shooting himself in the foot too at times.
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Ironically Asif, Amir, and Butt are the three Pakistani ex-cricketers who make the most sense (on camera) these days.
 
True. But so did a lot of bowlers back in the day. Shoaib used to tamper quite freely and had a long thumbnail on his right thumb atleast until 2002. When under the cosh, he used to scratch vigorously. Seen it quite a few times. Unfair to single out Waqar alone .
 
anonymous_guy said:
Why is this convicted prisoner who also has a history of drug abuse being given any importance.

He seems to be an extremely toxic person when ever I have listened to his unter, the trio of 2010 are competing with other in terms toxicity.

One convicted prisoner is calling out an ex player to be a cheat another prisoner isnt comfortable with the team management and so doesn't want to play, Now waiting for Nasir Jamshed, Khalid Latif, Sharjeel Khan, Umar Akmal, Danish Kaneria, Saleem Malik to come in public and say out loud how they were poorly treated, how people around them cheated yet only they were caught, how others around them were injust towards them, how they were innocent and mazloom and did what ever they did only by mistake without realising it wasn't legal. There is a reason why any court of justice doesn't take the words of criminals and prisoners to be true and these men just keep proving it, again and again.

All these guys Akmals, Kanerias, Malik's, Amir's , Asifs and butts are the same soul in different skin.
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That's because what he is saying suits some people's own narrative.

We all want to hear, what we want to hear :D
 
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Mamoon said:
The 1992 Test series in England was witness to the most shameless and blatant exhibition of ball-tampering ever. It was a complete farce.
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Could that be because Pakistan won that series?
 
Mamoon said:
Asif has the right to feel aggrieved because he should have had another chance like Amir. PCB ignored Asif because of his age but the irony is that it was brought back alongside Amir in 2016, Asif would have ended up playing more Tests than Amir.

Moreover, Pakistani fans who are unaware of the history of ball-tampering in Pakistan and the role it played in Waqar’s success need to be made aware of the fact that Asif was a better and more skilled Test bowler than Waqar.
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Lol at another chance like Aamir. Do you think spot fixing scandal was the only bad thing Asif was involved in?

And it does not matter how talented Asif was, he ruined his own career. When ever people talk about Pakistani bowling greats Waqar’s name will always be mentioned, most people haven’t even heard about Asif lol.

And it is funny how people who haven’t watched Waqar live at his peak talk about him by just watching some random videos or reading reports.
 
Mamoon said:
Spot-fixing can potentially influence the outcome of the match. When Amir and Asif bowled no-balls in the first innings of the Lord’s Test, they deliberately conceded 2 runs. What would have happened if Pakistan would have lost that Test by 2 runs?

Moreover, if you are deliberately bowling no-balls, you could dismiss the batsmen on those bowls and they could go on to play a match-defining knock by capitalizing on that reprieve.

Similarly, when Sharjeel played two dot balls in PSL 2017, he risked losing the match.

Spot-fixing is a much bigger crime than tampering because you are cheating your own teammates and potentially sabotaging your team’s chances of winning by deliberately conceding runs or playing our dots or throwing your wicket away.

That is why a spot-fixer always receives a harsher punishment than a tamperer. Ball-tampering is cheating, but you are cheating the opponents and increasing the chances of your team winning the match. It cannot be a greater offense than spot-fixing.
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Yes, it potentially can but likely does not - unlike ball tampering which has MUCH higher odds to influence the result one way. We can create all kinds of hyperboles for how spot fixing can influence the result, but based on the odds, there's no comparison with ball tampering's impact.

Weird logic with that last paragraph. It's bad to cheat your own team but not as bad when you cheat your opponents because your are increasing the chances of your team winning? That is quite a silly logic. Cheating is cheating, regardless of whom it is impacts.
 
No need for Asif to come out with this sort of stuff.

I interviewed him a couple of months ago for Wisden and he mentioned this stuff about Waqar to me, he spoke against Pathan bowlers and a few others things, which I didn't include in the interview.
 
I wonder if people in other countries also utter so many defamatory remarks about their own countrymen. There is something seriously wrong with being so offensive about things that cannot be proven. We really take freedom of speech to a whole new level.
 
Cricket has been evolving and changing so fast that only a foolish mind would try to compare batsmen and bowlers of different era"s,

A bowler like Waqar obviously would not be able to replicate the top level of reverse bowling that he did in his playing days in the current modern day cricket but then,

If you try to find a bowler who is a reverse swing specialist in current era it would be pretty hard to find one because of the obvious reasons of not able to tamper the ball in current modern day cricket

This only tells us that a bowler of past era who is a coach now cannot be given merit just on his decades old great statistics to a position of coaching in modern day cricket

To be a coach from past decades to current era one have to learn the current modern day skills as a coach which is next to impossible to expect from a Pak set up because of its inability and failure to achieve modern day cricket planning techniques or skills or whatever u call it
 
Saj said:
No need for Asif to come out with this sort of stuff.

I interviewed him a couple of months ago for Wisden and he mentioned this stuff about Waqar to me, he spoke against Pathan bowlers and a few others things, which I didn't include in the interview.
Click to expand...

He sounds like a proper uncouthed Pindoo
 
Saj said:
To be fair to him, he has a great cricketing mind and knows a lot about the game if you keep him to those topics.
Click to expand...

His bowling intelligence was up there with the best, the less said about his general intelligence, the better. Ultimately,his low general intelligence led to the demise of a promising cricketing career.
 
There’s no question waqar was a Pakistani great, anyone thinking otherwise is delusional or never watched waqar actually play just basing their opinions off interviews like this. Asif was a brilliant bowler but the antonym of an intelligent person.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
True. But so did a lot of bowlers back in the day. Shoaib used to tamper quite freely and had a long thumbnail on his right thumb atleast until 2002. When under the cosh, he used to scratch vigorously. Seen it quite a few times. Unfair to single out Waqar alone .
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Indian bowlers also were quite good at it. The difference was that these guys were also much quicker and more skilful.
 
Oh please. Yea he wouldn’t dominate today because (sarcastic). Because he was blazing fast and had crazy control. The swing was from the arm action and paceee!!!
When he ran into bowl everyone stopped! and watched.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bewal Express said:
Indian bowlers also were quite good at it. The difference was that these guys were also much quicker and more skilful.
Click to expand...

Lol forget Indian Bowlers. Indian batsmen also used to do it in the hope that their bowlers would start taking wickets for a change. But that barely helped either :))
 
Asif isn’t even in the category. Different kind of bowler and those guys can be figured out. Look at Abbas. Abbas started out hotter than even Asif. Imagine his medium pace now when batsmen r going ham
 
Theres no need for asif to demean waqar He couldve made the point about his poor coaching without criticising him personally

Esp when you look at asifs own record Hes not saint that he can throw stones at glass windows
 
Can anyone pinpoint a spell where Asif ran through a batting line up with the old ball. He was in my view a terrific new ball bowler but was very limited with the old ball and against the tail. He was ineffective in wrapping up the Australian lower order ie Siddle in that Sydney match
 
A simple look at his Test record against the mighty Aussies gives us a clear picture of how good he was. Add to that, he played 2 matches against arch rivals India in WC's (96' WC, 03' WC) and was given the beating of a lifetime in both the matches.

He was nothing more than an overrated bowler by Pak fans, who was no where half as good as Wasim Akram.
 
Hitman said:
A simple look at his Test record against the mighty Aussies gives us a clear picture of how good he was. Add to that, he played 2 matches against arch rivals India in WC's (96' WC, 03' WC) and was given the beating of a lifetime in both the matches.

He was nothing more than an overrated bowler by Pak fans, who was no where half as good as Wasim Akram.
Click to expand...

He must have been rubbish to get spanked by Indian jobbers from that time, there probably isn't anything more humiliating to get battered by minnow level opposition, I think he is quiet over rated and can't help other bowlers either which shows his poor bowling IQ to
 
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