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Was Mohammad Sami hard done by the selectors in limited-overs cricket?

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Today I was just flicking through channels and on Geo Super Highlights of some random BPL match were coming and Sami was bowling a spell. It brought back some old memories with him bowling at great pace (must be 87mph+ atleast). The batsman were definitely struggling to hit him and you could only think with a sigh, 'Ahh what could have been.'

Everyone knows his struggles in Tests and how he was given a long lease of life and played way too long undeservedly. However I think he was hard done by in ODIs and his Test failures were used to drop him from ODIs as well whereas in reality he had been doing fairly well in ODIs despite his test failures and the consequent effect those had on his confidence. (He was a confidence player and lacked heart imo.)

Anyways he was dropped from ODIs in 2007. However in 2007 he averaged 27 and in 2006 he had averaged 30. Even in 2012 he was recalled for 2 games and took 3/19 in one but got smashed in the other.

His overall record is an average of 29 at an economy of 5 runs which isnt half as bad.

I feel he might have been more useful in ODIs and should have been dropped from Tests long back. Why did it have to be either both or nothing with him
 
He should have been given a lengthy run in ODIs! His debut in Tests was ill timed! And the poor guy paid the price for it in ODIs instead! Just like Iftikhar!
 
yes he was, but its no surprise from the retards that have formed the long line of defunct and genuinely stupid chief selectors we have had. theres a continuous policy of playing players in the wrong format. younis, sami, alam, etc etc etc. most recently its been bilal asif.

there is just no accountability in pakistani cricket.
 
Not really. His average sky rocketed in ODI cricket as well. If you check his latest ODI performances against SL in 2012 and then later Zimbabwe in 2015, they were not impressive. Time to move on.
 
Sorry for my post i.e. post no # 2! Lol! I thought you were talking about Sami Aslam! Didnt read the first post, just read the title and posted! Lol!
 
Lols the guy can not handle preassure at all. He can bowl 9 good overs and go for 15 runs in his last. He has had many comebacks and struggled in every. Should just stick to domestic.
 
Too soft for a fast bowler. A very good talent though.
He could bowl long spells at high speed.

You need a very pro active captain like IK to get results from such players.


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Like Umar Gul he was a rythm bowler. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but if he has one bad over he will lose the game for you. Simple as that. And I guess they didn't want to take the risk
 
Like Umar Gul he was a rythm bowler. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but if he has one bad over he will lose the game for you. Simple as that. And I guess they didn't want to take the risk

Gul was much tougher mentally. Wahab is also much tougher mentally.

Sami needed 24/7 babby sitting which might have been possible if you have Imran, Wasim, Waqar at mid off, mid on every delivery but sadly he came about in the wrong era.
 
Not really. His average sky rocketed in ODI cricket as well. If you check his latest ODI performances against SL in 2012 and then later Zimbabwe in 2015, they were not impressive. Time to move on.

irrelevant.

he played two odi games in 12 and two games in 15 - that means nothing. if you dont give a guy a run on a come back, its not fair to assess his stats over four data points as meaningful.

his domestic stats were consistent with his international ones as is so often the case for any player internationally, he was crap at the longer form of the game and decent at the shorter format. and yet, for odis, he played the bulk of his games to 04, with only 8 games in 05, 4 in 06 and 5 in 07.

and yet our idiot selectors decided for some reason that it was better to have him take some phenti in tests by playing him pretty much straight through to 07 (10 tests in 07, 6 tests in 06) before pointlessly throwing him in again for four tests in 10 and 2 tests in 12.

the point is that even if he deserved being dropped from the odi side for bad form in 04/5/6 or whenever, what was the point of a) persisting with him in tests when his numbers there were terrible and b) every time he went back to domestic, performed in list A, they recalled him to the test side again???

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=2;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=1;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings
 
irrelevant.

he played two odi games in 12 and two games in 15 - that means nothing. if you dont give a guy a run on a come back, its not fair to assess his stats over four data points as meaningful.

his domestic stats were consistent with his international ones as is so often the case for any player internationally, he was crap at the longer form of the game and decent at the shorter format. and yet, for odis, he played the bulk of his games to 04, with only 8 games in 05, 4 in 06 and 5 in 07.

and yet our idiot selectors decided for some reason that it was better to have him take some phenti in tests by playing him pretty much straight through to 07 (10 tests in 07, 6 tests in 06) before pointlessly throwing him in again for four tests in 10 and 2 tests in 12.

the point is that even if he deserved being dropped from the odi side for bad form in 04/5/6 or whenever, what was the point of a) persisting with him in tests when his numbers there were terrible and b) every time he went back to domestic, performed in list A, they recalled him to the test side again???

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=2;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=1;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings

He went for 15 runs in that over against Angelo Mathews which cost us the final odi in 2012. I remember there was a thread where so much abuse and anger was levelled against him and the selectors who kept on going back to this TTF.
 
He went for 15 runs in that over against Angelo Mathews which cost us the final odi in 2012. I remember there was a thread where so much abuse and anger was levelled against him and the selectors who kept on going back to this TTF.

do you mean the second of two games he played after over 5 years in the wilderness? thats what this thread is about - mismanagement. the damage was already done 7 years earlier.
 
He should have been given a lengthy run in ODIs! His debut in Tests was ill timed! And the poor guy paid the price for it in ODIs instead! Just like Iftikhar!

You mean he was too successful on debut? Took a 5-fer if I recall, ripped through New Zealand. Who knew he would never do better. Suspect he was given such a long leash because that kind of speed is a rare commodity; you can't really teach someone to bowl that fast, but you can vainly nurture the hope that with time they will develop some complementary skills, grow a brain. Not much has changed on that front I think, and the rot starts from the top. The very same week that gentle Jimmy Anderson is bending it like Beckham in the UAE, Waqar will go on about how Pakistani bowlers can't swing the ball anymore because they are not fast enough. Lots of excellent domestic bowlers get overlooked because they are not thought to have pace. But fans are not necessarily better than the selectors; every new fast bowler that arrives on the scene, the first question is not Ave or Sr but does he have pace? If Sami V.2 arrived on the scene today, bowling at breakneck speed but only Ave 32 or something in FC domestic, he would still get fast tracked into the national team, and given 15 odd Tests or so. So this post is actually more topical than one might think.
 
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He had pace and good swing. But nothing else.

No bowling brain. And above all he was never consistent in his length.

His short ball was not accurate or not used with enough venom. He didn't bowl enough Yorkers at the death. He didn't exploit or learn the art of reverse swing to his advantage like Umar Gul.

It's a case of what could have been but the guy just couldn't deliver. It's a sad case in some ways.
 
yes he was, but its no surprise from the retards that have formed the long line of defunct and genuinely stupid chief selectors we have had. theres a continuous policy of playing players in the wrong format. younis, sami, alam, etc etc etc. most recently its been bilal asif.

there is just no accountability in pakistani cricket.

This.

Our selectors and cricket board are generally either clueless or total ********.
 
I have always liked Sami and I will always like this player.

I still believe that he is a swing bowler and we play him on flat phatta wickets where his pace ensures that he becomes the easiest bowler to hit around.

If we go to Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand he should be considered.

I still think that he should be in the frame for ODI cricket for next year. I mean seriously, he cannot be any worse than some of the bowlers currently being played.

An attack of Wahab, Amir and Sami in English conditions backed by Amir Yamin and Imad Wasim is a decent attack IMHO
 
I have always liked Sami and I will always like this player.

I still believe that he is a swing bowler and we play him on flat phatta wickets where his pace ensures that he becomes the easiest bowler to hit around.

If we go to Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand he should be considered.

I still think that he should be in the frame for ODI cricket for next year. I mean seriously, he cannot be any worse than some of the bowlers currently being played.

An attack of Wahab, Amir and Sami in English conditions backed by Amir Yamin and Imad Wasim is a decent attack IMHO

Another excuse, the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar were able to deliver in all conditions. Sami does not have an exemplary record in England, Australia either. Every time he played you would see a thread crying over the recall of a ttf.
 
Sami again ...ah..sigh!!
The problem with many Pakistani fast bowlers apart from amir, asif and Shohaib in recent years is that they are thick as two planks. They feel that they can blast out the opposition with their lightning bolts of 85-90mph. Sami possessed speed but little nous in how to bowl cleverly and work on a batsmans weak spots. He could crank it up to 93 mph but it would be no use as he either swung it too much (as in last matches in srilanka) or swung it too little (most of the middle part of his career). In any format he either couldn't read the batsman, the pitch or the conditions. He ran in like a train ball after ball, if only had the intelligence to match his immense heart.

If his odi figures are good they only flatter to deceive. Batsmen are forced to take risks in LOI and a little uncertain edge can fly to the boundary as much as into the fielders hands (or not when considering his luck)

However it has to be said that maybe with better keeper and captain he coulda been...shouda been a contender
 
Gul was much tougher mentally. Wahab is also much tougher mentally.

Sami needed 24/7 babby sitting which might have been possible if you have Imran, Wasim, Waqar at mid off, mid on every delivery but sadly he came about in the wrong era.

This is the point. When he is in a pressure situation than he needs wasim Waqar or Imran at mid off to tell him what delivery to bowl next as he can't think and plan it well himself.

Mentally weak and very fragile. Also hard done by team managements, selectors and captains.
[MENTION=3393]godzilla[/MENTION] is right aswell. In last 5 years he has been given 4 ODI's in total those too 2 in 2012 and 2 after three years in 2015.

This cannot be termed a fair run.

As far as players psyche is concerned it's not in their hands. Mentally weak players can never become mentally strong players. It's in built. Passive characters cannot become aggressive. Soft pace bowlers cannot become angry pace bowlers. Andre Nels mental game could not be changed in the same way Semi's mental aspects of game could not be changed.

But if England persisted with Stuart broad after conceding 30 or 36 runs against yuvraj Singh why couldn't Sami be persisted after conceding 12 or 15 runs Over ?

Only batsman can improve their mental game there temperament. Examples could be Warner, Maxwell , Raina , Gayle.

And biggest example uptil now of a batsman who couldn't improve mental side of his game is " Umar Akmal "
 
Another excuse, the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar were able to deliver in all conditions. Sami does not have an exemplary record in England, Australia either. Every time he played you would see a thread crying over the recall of a ttf.

Where have you seen the excuse?

Have I said that he is hard done or something?

I have just said that I think he is better than certain bowlers which he is and that is all.

Having a personal preference for a certain player does not mean that you are excusing on their behalf etc.
 
Always root for the guy when he is picked because he can be lethal on his day... but his body language inspires no confidence, whatsoever. He will always bowl a good spell upfront, but the moment someone takes him on, he falls apart badly. Carrying quite a belly nowadays as well.
 
He will be around for a tour to oz next year. Too many of our newer players are injury prone. It's a pity he is such a softie.
 
Even though he averages 47 in Test Matches. I would pick him Test Matches over ODI's any day.

Sami is the type of bowler when he is scored runs against, he gets bogged down.

In the Test Matches, you are not worried about the run rate, or the rate at which runs are scored against you if you are picking up 5 wickets.

Sami is that sort of bowler who will give boundary bowls but get a wicket taking delivery out of nowhere.

That is why he was a success against India in 2005 Test seres. Where he didn't get plenty of breakthroughs, but roughed up quite a few Indian batsmen. I still remember his yorker to Dinesh Karthik and bouncing out Saurav Ganguly.

He bounced out Dravid once in an ODI and that ball took off from good length.

So whenever Sami is not worried about leaking runs (most in ODI's) he seems to do very well.

He is the bowler with the longest over in cricketing history. Bowled a 17 ball over vs Zimbabwe.

So there is quite a neurotic reaction to whenever he bowls badly. He seems to go in a negative spiral where bowling goes from bad to worse.

His most recent performance vs Australia in 2010 test matches is the reason I would pick him in a Test match with something for a bowler. But in an ODI he becomes his own worst enemy.
 
He went for 15 runs in that over against Angelo Mathews which cost us the final odi in 2012. I remember there was a thread where so much abuse and anger was levelled against him and the selectors who kept on going back to this TTF.

Also got tonked around by Zimbabwe batsmen in the ODI series in Pakistan.
 
Whatever the Stats might say, I think Sami was always a Test bowler. Bowlers like him were ultimately waiting to be clobbered in ODI cricket.

Why he didn't cut it in Test cricket is something I have no clue about other than to blame his captains and maybe the PCB.

There have been a couple of matches that I've gone to, purely to watch Sami bowl :srt True story.
 
In Test Matches, he was expensive against England in 2006 Test series. But he bowled good deliveries which deserved a wicket but was dropped by Kamran or not given out by the umpire.

Long story short, if he was handled better, he would be an exclusive test match bowler like Peter Siddle for Australia. As in he would bowl fast and aggressive. Without worrying for too many runs.

Inzamam was the opposite, he would remove the slip as soon as the bowler was hit for 2 boundaries.
 
Whatever the Stats might say, I think Sami was always a Test bowler. Bowlers like him were ultimately waiting to be clobbered in ODI cricket.

Why he didn't cut it in Test cricket is something I have no clue about other than to blame his captains and maybe the PCB.

There have been a couple of matches that I've gone to, purely to watch Sami bowl :srt True story.

Kamran akmal dropped plenty of his catches, he also played on some of the flattest tracks in cricketing history. I'm not saying Kami is to blame for his failiures, but a different captain would've used him differently.

Inzamam was more of a contain run captain, even in Test Matches. He was the type of captain who would prefer 4-5 maidens and would ask bowlers to bowl in a channel instead of bowling aggressive.
Shoaib Akhtar disagreed with Inzi's captaincy, and there were always some rumours about Shoaib and Inzi not getting along. Shoaib and sami both suffered because of the flat tracks that were created when India won in Pakistan 2-1 2004. Both bowled 20+ overs but never got more than 2 wickets.
 
I remember Sami winning us a Test Match in New zealand just on his bowling performance. He was a different bowler under Waqar in Test Matches when Waqar was captain.
He turned a run containing bowler under Inzi.

If someone checks Sami's stats in Newzealand, they are phenomenal.
 
Kamran akmal dropped plenty of his catches, he also played on some of the flattest tracks in cricketing history. I'm not saying Kami is to blame for his failiures, but a different captain would've used him differently.

Inzamam was more of a contain run captain, even in Test Matches. He was the type of captain who would prefer 4-5 maidens and would ask bowlers to bowl in a channel instead of bowling aggressive.
Shoaib Akhtar disagreed with Inzi's captaincy, and there were always some rumours about Shoaib and Inzi not getting along. Shoaib and sami both suffered because of the flat tracks that were created when India won in Pakistan 2-1 2004. Both bowled 20+ overs but never got more than 2 wickets.

This seems fair reasoning. I remember a game during one of Sami's comebacks. It was either an ODI or a T20, and vs Australia if I'm not mistaken. He'd bowled really well and then Salman Butt dropped a simple catch on the boundary. You could see his confidence just spiraled after that as he took a pasting from David Hussey if I recall correctly.

I remember Sami winning us a Test Match in New zealand just on his bowling performance. He was a different bowler under Waqar in Test Matches when Waqar was captain.
He turned a run containing bowler under Inzi.

If someone checks Sami's stats in Newzealand, they are phenomenal.

His debut (or one of his early Test games) vs NZ was what got me hooked.
 
Also got tonked around by Zimbabwe batsmen in the ODI series in Pakistan.

Doesn't matter. He is 34 officially so mightn't be a bit older and hence was already past it by then. I am talking about the 2007-2012 period or so.
 
I remember Sami winning us a Test Match in New zealand just on his bowling performance. He was a different bowler under Waqar in Test Matches when Waqar was captain.
He turned a run containing bowler under Inzi.

If someone checks Sami's stats in Newzealand, they are phenomenal.

Inzy was a very defensive captain and never understood how to operate with fast bowlers. For a while even Akhtar became a peripheral figure under him
 
Lol BPL. Sami was OK, but way too inconsistent and wayward. I can never forget that long over. Was it 13 balls?
 
Even though he averages 47 in Test Matches. I would pick him Test Matches over ODI's any day.

Sami is the type of bowler when he is scored runs against, he gets bogged down.

In the Test Matches, you are not worried about the run rate, or the rate at which runs are scored against you if you are picking up 5 wickets.

Sami is that sort of bowler who will give boundary bowls but get a wicket taking delivery out of nowhere.

That is why he was a success against India in 2005 Test seres. Where he didn't get plenty of breakthroughs, but roughed up quite a few Indian batsmen. I still remember his yorker to Dinesh Karthik and bouncing out Saurav Ganguly.

He bounced out Dravid once in an ODI and that ball took off from good length.

So whenever Sami is not worried about leaking runs (most in ODI's) he seems to do very well.

He is the bowler with the longest over in cricketing history. Bowled a 17 ball over vs Zimbabwe.

So there is quite a neurotic reaction to whenever he bowls badly. He seems to go in a negative spiral where bowling goes from bad to worse.

His most recent performance vs Australia in 2010 test matches is the reason I would pick him in a Test match with something for a bowler. But in an ODI he becomes his own worst enemy.

if this is he case, how do you explain the fact that his FC stats are distinctly average but his LA stats are respectable?

It sounds like you've just strung a story to justify an opinion based on watching a couple of games rather than the reality and facts of his career both internationally and domestically.
 
Don't know what went wrong with him honestly. He had everything a good fast bowler needs: he was a very good athlete, had a very nice, smooth and repeatable action, great run up, swing and obviously the pace. If I saw a bowler like that today, I'd be hyping him up like no tomorrow.

I was just watching some old videos of him the other day. Think it's safe to say he's one of the biggest under-achievers in the history of Pakistan cricket.

 
Don't know what went wrong with him honestly. He had everything a good fast bowler needs: he was a very good athlete, had a very nice, smooth and repeatable action, great run up, swing and obviously the pace. If I saw a bowler like that today, I'd be hyping him up like no tomorrow.

I was just watching some old videos of him the other day. Think it's safe to say he's one of the biggest under-achievers in the history of Pakistan cricket.


Him and Umar Akmal just make me sad. Such a waste of talent
 
Was just watching his Sydney 2010 swan song. Ironic thing was that in one of his first balls in international cricket after 3 years Umar Akmal dropped Hughes of him. Sami must have had horrible flashbacks.
 
I was at Edgbaston when he bowled a 97mph delivery to Michael Vaughan all those yrs ago. If anything, he underachieved severely.
 
I was at Edgbaston when he bowled a 97mph delivery to Michael Vaughan all those yrs ago. If anything, he underachieved severely.

He has serious pace and a brilliant out swinger too. Current lot can't swing to save their lives
 
Lol trust an Indian to try to make his country relevant somehow. Such an insecure bunch guys like you


I like Sami tbh but he reminds me of our own Umesh yadav. Pace but no brain. Always bowling short.
 
I like Sami tbh but he reminds me of our own Umesh yadav. Pace but no brain. Always bowling short.
Yadav has also been unlucky that he hasn't been used properly
 
if they can give an 40 year old his debut, why not a chance at 35. Just saying with the T20 round the corner, with current bunch of bowlers not impressing
 
Haha, who can forget the great Malcolm Sami. Another pearl of wisdom from Imran Khan. There have been a few over the years!
 
mohammad sami is the worst bowler pakistan has ever produced. he cant bowl line and length. atleast couple of 4 balls every over he bowls. he should play only domestic cricket. he has been given fair amount of chances
 
Sometime i feel Sami is the Umar Akmal of bowling. All that talent and pace without brain just like Umar got all the talent and shots but no brain.
 
BIG time. However, not much by the selectors - he was selected good enough times.

It was the issue with the pathetic, outdated, scared, timid, lobbyist, racist, @#!@#%&^#@!@#@&^* .......................................................................................... incompetent Captains that he played under since Wasim that screwed him in both sides.

Sami was someone who could bowl it at 155KM+, with late swing & could reverse the ball & had a fantastic swerving yorker - for that he has probably 2 or 3 hat-tricks. Now, the best way to use this bowler is exactly what Wasim did with Sohaib in India (Or Imran for few matches with Waquar) - an ODI of 4-2-2-2 spells, a 5-3-3-4 spells in Test for a day & ask him to go flat out, giving him support of attacking fielding to knock couple of top orders. Pathetic PAK Captains asked him to be the Peter Siddle of the team & contain set batsmen.

Besides, he is not the most religious person, so must end up in Jahannam (Allah forbid) - Molla Haq & his tableague follower thought that before Roz Qiamat, Sami should be served some punishment is this life for his lifestyle (If I write more, Mods 'll get busy), so that it's easier for him to pass the foolsirat......

Inzamam ul Haq is one of my most favorite players, but a pathetic individual, a cancer to the team culture - not only Sami, ruined quite a few number of players who could have formed an International standard team of their own.
 
Besides, he is not the most religious person, so must end up in Jahannam (Allah forbid) - Molla Haq & his tableague follower thought that before Roz Qiamat, Sami should be served some punishment is this life for his lifestyle (If I write more, Mods 'll get busy), so that it's easier for him to pass the foolsirat......

:))) So true that it hurts. Maulana Inzi was actually more concerned about his performances than all this tableeghi Jamaat stuff I guess until 2003 and early 2004, went the other way after as did Sami's career.
 
I remember Sami winning us a Test Match in New zealand just on his bowling performance. He was a different bowler under Waqar in Test Matches when Waqar was captain.
He turned a run containing bowler under Inzi.

If someone checks Sami's stats in Newzealand, they are phenomenal.

I seriously worry about posts such as this. I don't know where they pop up from!!

Firstly, that series in newzealand was his debut series and yes he was the find of the series in around 2001. The match he helped win was quickly followed by a tame draw when even saqlain made a century on a very slow drop in pitch. We got hammered in the following Hamilton match and I think waqar got hit for four 6's in an over by McMillan. So Sami was good in short bursts and only ever in one match of any series. Then he came to Eng in 2001 early summer and got injured when there were great expectations of him to bowl alongside the W's and Shohaib. We lost lords match but the star bowler was one of razzaq or azhar I can't remember which but I do remember that they got wickets by bowling line and length not pace. We drew old Trafford thanks to Saqlain not pace. Then in 2002 he went to South Africa and between him and waqar they could not even buy a wicket. Both were ridiculously ineffective on the green pitches of South Africa where they were expected to do well.

The trouble with Sami always has been that the little flash of brilliance overshadows long periods of ineptitude. People get impressed by his pace when he has regularly been out performed by medium pace intelligent bowlers.

For instance that newzealand innings you talk about, that hatrick against West Indies, that spell against star studded Australian line up in Perth in 2004, or the Indian line up in 2005. It's just never consistent enough and never when it matters and only ever in isolated test matches.

This is why eventually Inzi preferred line and length bowlers such as razzaq, shahid nazir, naved up Hassan etc who could get wickets through containment and not leak runs.

Also you mention Sami has had to bowl on the flattest tracks.... Do you not know that he's a bowler from Karachi which is one of the slowest wickets in Pakistan. If you can bowl there and pick up wickets you can get wickets anywhere. Another lesser known fact is that for many of his domestic seasons in Karachi he was outbowled by his bowling partner, samiullah who is as pure a line and length bowler as there can be.

Sami's pace is wasted on him unfortunately.

For instance the 2007 World Cup match was on an absolute green mamba of a pitch against Ireland and he struggled to get a wicket when at times they were really under pressure.

If he can't get wickets on pitches tailor made for him what is he supposed to do on flat tracks? He gas to learn line and length and figure ways out to get good batsmen out.
 
He had all the physical ability but didn't have the mental game to be a great bowler. He just used to bowl didn't work out batsman etc was better under a fast bowling captain like Waqar who did the thinking for him.

Sent from my SM-G925I
 
I seriously worry about posts such as this. I don't know where they pop up from!!

Firstly, that series in newzealand was his debut series and yes he was the find of the series in around 2001. The match he helped win was quickly followed by a tame draw when even saqlain made a century on a very slow drop in pitch. We got hammered in the following Hamilton match and I think waqar got hit for four 6's in an over by McMillan. So Sami was good in short bursts and only ever in one match of any series. Then he came to Eng in 2001 early summer and got injured when there were great expectations of him to bowl alongside the W's and Shohaib. We lost lords match but the star bowler was one of razzaq or azhar I can't remember which but I do remember that they got wickets by bowling line and length not pace. We drew old Trafford thanks to Saqlain not pace. Then in 2002 he went to South Africa and between him and waqar they could not even buy a wicket. Both were ridiculously ineffective on the green pitches of South Africa where they were expected to do well.

The trouble with Sami always has been that the little flash of brilliance overshadows long periods of ineptitude. People get impressed by his pace when he has regularly been out performed by medium pace intelligent bowlers.

For instance that newzealand innings you talk about, that hatrick against West Indies, that spell against star studded Australian line up in Perth in 2004, or the Indian line up in 2005. It's just never consistent enough and never when it matters and only ever in isolated test matches.

This is why eventually Inzi preferred line and length bowlers such as razzaq, shahid nazir, naved up Hassan etc who could get wickets through containment and not leak runs.

Also you mention Sami has had to bowl on the flattest tracks.... Do you not know that he's a bowler from Karachi which is one of the slowest wickets in Pakistan. If you can bowl there and pick up wickets you can get wickets anywhere. Another lesser known fact is that for many of his domestic seasons in Karachi he was outbowled by his bowling partner, samiullah who is as pure a line and length bowler as there can be.

Sami's pace is wasted on him unfortunately.

For instance the 2007 World Cup match was on an absolute green mamba of a pitch against Ireland and he struggled to get a wicket when at times they were really under pressure.

If he can't get wickets on pitches tailor made for him what is he supposed to do on flat tracks? He gas to learn line and length and figure ways out to get good batsmen out.

There is a world of a difference between Sami from 2001 to 2004-05 and the one that followed after wards. All the commentators and experts were very impressed by him, his pace and the potential he showed. In the 2001 NZ and the 2002 SA series the commentators were raving about him as being the find of the series even though he didn't pick up too many wickets but showed potential.

But then Sami graduated from a 140-145 km/hr bowler to a 145-155 km/hr bowler and that is when his downfall really started in Cricketing terms. He started focusing too much on speed and that excess 10 km/hr. If you watch his videos from 2001-2002 you see a guy who swings the new ball both ways and reverse swings the new ball, bowls with an upright seam and is troubling the batsmen, and looking threatening.

I was personally very impressed by him and even though he was a short guy who didn't get a lot of bounce and didn't bowl a lot of bouncers, his swing and his speed which was (140-145 km/hr) was making him a deadly prospect.

However he then started to compete with Shoaib Akhtar in terms of speed and with the extra speed, he lost his swing with the new ball and his line and length suffered immensely and too many beatings at the hand of the opposition batsmen, long periods of success without wickets, criticism in the media took toll on his confidence and his entire demeanour changed.

Personally i suspect the deterioration of his wrist position, release, upright seam might even have been a case of Zits which is what even Steven Finn suffered from and literally went back to the drawing board to correct but sadly i doubt whether the experts and coaches in Pakistan were even qualified to figure out what the issue with him was.

In an interview with PP he commented he volunatarily reduced his run up to reduce the threat of injuries. Personally speaking i consider him to be the biggest tragedy of Pakistan Cricket for someone who showed the talent, gifts and tools so early in his career as to how he fell completely into mediocrity.
 

Just compare his wrist position early on in his career and from 2004 onwards
 

Just look at his bowling action, release on the ball from 2001-2003, 2004 versus later on. Complete decline.
 
There is a world of a difference between Sami from 2001 to 2004-05 and the one that followed after wards.
Not denying this. But equally true that there is a world of difference between Sami of 2005 and Sami of 2010 (his last Test). From today's vantage point suffice to say that the decline was steady along a downward trajectory from the debut series onwards barring a couple of minor upward blips.


All the commentators and experts were very impressed by him, his pace and the potential he showed. In the 2001 NZ and the 2002 SA series the commentators were raving about him as being the find of the series even though he didn't pick up too many wickets but showed potential.

Commentators can be as impressed with speed as they like. Everybody was obsessed with Speed in 2000 as it seems the year speed guns were invented and for every Sami there was a Nanti Hayward or a shaun tait. The crucial thing is Wickets! if you cant take wickets what good is pace? Shohaib is a great example. When he was fast he was effective, but when he developed a slower ball, he was lethal (2005 onwards) There was an article written by Osman Samiuddin about Sami "great balls of fire" showing that he was as fast as he ever was from about 2001 onwards. I think it was written after a sharjah match with Srilanka.

But then Sami graduated from a 140-145 km/hr bowler to a 145-155 km/hr bowler and that is when his downfall really started in Cricketing terms.

No his downfall was preordained coz he lacked the intelligence to pick up wickets in any other manner than beating for pace. You cant keep beating international batsmen for pace as any little width and a nick will go for 4. They all count.

He started focusing too much on speed and that excess 10 km/hr. If you watch his videos from 2001-2002 you see a guy who swings the new ball both ways and reverse swings the new ball, bowls with an upright seam and is troubling the batsmen, and looking threatening.

This is complete nonesense. Did you actually read what you wrote? for reverse swing the seam has to be horizontal but fingers completely behind seam. As for conventional seam, My 14 year old son can keep a seam upright as its one of the basics of bowling (though bowling with a wobbly seam and landing on a length is something special) Sami may have swung the ball, but i think you are referring to New Zealand debut. Swing is often about atmospheric conditions and moisture in the ground and air. So given how rubbish Sami has been since, we can say that New Zealand debut was a fluke in Auckland which is why he couldn't replicate it in Chritchurch in the following match or even in South Africa in the series in 2002. Swing is nothing without intelligence and control and often is due to flukes with atmospheric conditions. Just think about that Indian bowler Mohanty from 1995 India-pak sahara series..where is he now? Total fluke just like sami. Junaid in Delhi in 2012 is another example...atmospheric conditions. Did Junaid get conventional swing again. (reverse yes, conventional hardly)

I was personally very impressed by him and even though he was a short guy who didn't get a lot of bounce and didn't bowl a lot of bouncers, his swing and his speed which was (140-145 km/hr) was making him a deadly prospect.

The whole world was impressed by him, more for potential than actual results. Of those clips, how many were in a winning cause? As for variations, (other than pace he had none) He didn't have a slower ball and he didn't have a decent pin point yorker and he was very wayward which is criminal in international matches which is why Tait and Hayward didn't last long. Its only in Pakistan that somebody such as Sami would be persisted with for so long. Coz we are often rather immaturely obsessed with the dazzle of speed and the spectacular instead of appreciating the slow and steady.

However he then started to compete with Shoaib Akhtar in terms of speed and with the extra speed, he lost his swing with the new ball and his line and length suffered immensely and too many beatings at the hand of the opposition batsmen, long periods of success without wickets, criticism in the media took toll on his confidence and his entire demeanour changed.

He wasnt competing with Shohaib, the pakistan establishment were thick and unprofessional. Its only when Bob Woolmer arrived and tried to knock some sense into them to focus on line and length as well as pace that they realised the importance of control. Thats why Rao iftakhar, rana and nazir and Razzaq were so well regarded. Remember in the year 2000 onwards pitches all around the world were slowing down so you couldn't just blast opposition out anymore like waqar could in 1992. Even he learnt that the hard way in the 2001 natwest series. However Sami just got found out that the places where he was expected to perform i.e England in 2001, he was injured. Therefore apart from Australia in 2004 there were no other green tops to fluke wickets between 2001-2004. Thats why we think he was so good when he was nothing after a couple of early matches.

Personally i suspect the deterioration of his wrist position, release, upright seam might even have been a case of Zits which is what even Steven Finn suffered from and literally went back to the drawing board to correct but sadly i doubt whether the experts and coaches in Pakistan were even qualified to figure out what the issue with him was.

With respect I dont think you are a coach. Neither am I. But people more knowledgeable than us have worked with this guy and one thing is clear. He cant learn. He cant read batsmen, he cant read match situations, he cant read atmospheric conditions to see how much swing he is generating and take off some swing when need be. (look at the highlights of the 2012 srilanka series...he is almost swinging it too much. Any fool knows that Dambulla under lights is lethal so all you need to do is hit a line and length and the pitch will do the rest which is why Kulasekara and even Vaas were so effective at a fraction of Sami's speed. Both him and Tanvir swung the ball well outside off straight down the leg side time and time again. After that he deserved to be jettisoned from international cricket forever.

Personally speaking i consider him to be the biggest tragedy of Pakistan Cricket for someone who showed the talent, gifts and tools so early in his career as to how he fell completely into mediocrity.[

Lets be clear, with all the lefties currently in the squad there is room in the current line up for a right handed wicket taker so he might still be back. But he isn't the biggest tragedy. I would list Shabbir Ahmed, Mohammed Zahid and Saqlain as the biggest tragedies in how they were completely dropped like hot rocks by the pcb at the time when they needed the most help. Sami has had everybody from Waqar, Wasim to Imran..heck im sure even Kofi Anan would have stepped in if asked but alas Sami remains Sami.

He is beyond help. But I would still love to see him in Pakistan colours again as there is always a little immature side of us fans that yearns for a dazzling performance.
 
if this is he case, how do you explain the fact that his FC stats are distinctly average but his LA stats are respectable?

It sounds like you've just strung a story to justify an opinion based on watching a couple of games rather than the reality and facts of his career both internationally and domestically.


I assumed based on what I have seen him not on his domestic stats that I have seen. I am talking about Sami the International bowler that is completely different from Sami the domestic bowler. We have some of the worst pitches in the world for fast bowlers. We have some of the worst batsmen as well. Our limited over cricket teams are nothing of International standard. Our odi side is probably the worst in the world and we produced some of the worst batsmen in international cricket.
Yet when our batsmen have time to bat we do relatively well.
There are numerous other reasons for the diversification of stats. But from what I have seen Sami's Achilles heel is when runs are scored against him and those runs directly affect the team either winning or losing.
 
I seriously worry about posts such as this. I don't know where they pop up from!!

Firstly, that series in newzealand was his debut series and yes he was the find of the series in around 2001. The match he helped win was quickly followed by a tame draw when even saqlain made a century on a very slow drop in pitch. We got hammered in the following Hamilton match and I think waqar got hit for four 6's in an over by McMillan. So Sami was good in short bursts and only ever in one match of any series. Then he came to Eng in 2001 early summer and got injured when there were great expectations of him to bowl alongside the W's and Shohaib. We lost lords match but the star bowler was one of razzaq or azhar I can't remember which but I do remember that they got wickets by bowling line and length not pace. We drew old Trafford thanks to Saqlain not pace. Then in 2002 he went to South Africa and between him and waqar they could not even buy a wicket. Both were ridiculously ineffective on the green pitches of South Africa where they were expected to do well.

The trouble with Sami always has been that the little flash of brilliance overshadows long periods of ineptitude. People get impressed by his pace when he has regularly been out performed by medium pace intelligent bowlers.

For instance that newzealand innings you talk about, that hatrick against West Indies, that spell against star studded Australian line up in Perth in 2004, or the Indian line up in 2005. It's just never consistent enough and never when it matters and only ever in isolated test matches.

This is why eventually Inzi preferred line and length bowlers such as razzaq, shahid nazir, naved up Hassan etc who could get wickets through containment and not leak runs.

Also you mention Sami has had to bowl on the flattest tracks.... Do you not know that he's a bowler from Karachi which is one of the slowest wickets in Pakistan. If you can bowl there and pick up wickets you can get wickets anywhere. Another lesser known fact is that for many of his domestic seasons in Karachi he was outbowled by his bowling partner, samiullah who is as pure a line and length bowler as there can be.

Sami's pace is wasted on him unfortunately.

For instance the 2007 World Cup match was on an absolute green mamba of a pitch against Ireland and he struggled to get a wicket when at times they were really under pressure.

If he can't get wickets on pitches tailor made for him what is he supposed to do on flat tracks? He gas to learn line and length and figure ways out to get good batsmen out.


Like I Said never rayet Sami the fast bqiler in Odis but I preferred him in test matches. And in that game against Ireland I believe he got 3 wickets.
 
He was our most lethal bowler in the Ireland game.
10 - 2- 29 - 3

And maybe could've had another one had he been given the right decision. Ofcourse it was not enough on the day.
 
He's lost us too many matches to 'deserve' anything from the selectors. Move on please.
 
BIG time. However, not much by the selectors - he was selected good enough times.

It was the issue with the pathetic, outdated, scared, timid, lobbyist, racist, @#!@#%&^#@!@#@&^* .......................................................................................... incompetent Captains that he played under since Wasim that screwed him in both sides.

Sami was someone who could bowl it at 155KM+, with late swing & could reverse the ball & had a fantastic swerving yorker - for that he has probably 2 or 3 hat-tricks. Now, the best way to use this bowler is exactly what Wasim did with Sohaib in India (Or Imran for few matches with Waquar) - an ODI of 4-2-2-2 spells, a 5-3-3-4 spells in Test for a day & ask him to go flat out, giving him support of attacking fielding to knock couple of top orders. Pathetic PAK Captains asked him to be the Peter Siddle of the team & contain set batsmen.

Besides, he is not the most religious person, so must end up in Jahannam (Allah forbid) - Molla Haq & his tableague follower thought that before Roz Qiamat, Sami should be served some punishment is this life for his lifestyle (If I write more, Mods 'll get busy), so that it's easier for him to pass the foolsirat......

Inzamam ul Haq is one of my most favorite players, but a pathetic individual, a cancer to the team culture - not only Sami, ruined quite a few number of players who could have formed an International standard team of their own.

Whatever you say about azhar he isnt a person who would keep someone out on personal terms. He doesnt seem like the kinda guy who cares about religion etc just wants to win. Same can be said of misbah. Dont know about afridi though
 
He always becomes a beast in such competitions.

Wish he had more confidence. Would have been a great player
 
Three words. 17 ball over.

In all seriousness, he was lethal on his day but as Abid Z pointed out above lacked the intelligence and ability to read the conditions. The difference between him and Asif, who didn't have the same amount of pace and came around the time Sami was falling out of favour, was night and day.
 
Ultimately it boils down to this

Do you think Rumman Raees, Anwar Ali and Muhammad Irfan are better bowlers than Muhammad Sami?
 
Three words. 17 ball over.

In all seriousness, he was lethal on his day but as Abid Z pointed out above lacked the intelligence and ability to read the conditions. The difference between him and Asif, who didn't have the same amount of pace and came around the time Sami was falling out of favour, was night and day.

If intelligence was a factor, then pray tell why Gul in particular and every other bowler to be brought in the team the Cheemays, BPhattis, etc. was persisted with for so long?

As usual the uber geniuses at PCB dropped him from ODI's based on his performances in Test...
 
If intelligence was a factor, then pray tell why Gul in particular and every other bowler to be brought in the team the Cheemays, BPhattis, etc. was persisted with for so long?

As usual the uber geniuses at PCB dropped him from ODI's based on his performances in Test...

Cheema and Bhatti weren't persisted with for that long, and were deservedly dropped. Gul should stay dropped.

Nobody can defend PCB selection policies, this is the same "think tank" that saw fit not select a single specialist spinner in India.
 
I dont know if Irfan,Rahat,IK Jnr etc are better than Sami...I think they are all the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I dont know if Irfan,Rahat,IK Jnr etc are better than Sami...I think they are all the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In LO, Sami is still better than any of those at 35. His problem was the benchmark - Average of 29 @ 35 SR is like gold for PAK team these days; but 10 years back these stats (actually better probably 27/33) were foolishly compared with 23/29 stats of Wasim, Waquar, Sohaib ............... Besides, he starts with 10 to 20 runs handicap over the 3 mentioned in fielding & 'll bat No. 9, if not 8 for this pathetic PAK tail.
 
amazing how at 35 he's still got that express pace and no real injury concerns

Could've been one of our great ODI bowlers :'(
 
My boy still got dat pace!!!

The ultimate what-could-have-been player.

Sami's problem is he bowls a couple of great deliveries at top pace but then will bowl some filthy looseners.

And as you see now - his head goes down, his line and length becomes wayward, he'll start conceding extras and the pressure is written all over his face.

Wish he had a better mentality as he's always had the skills.
 
This may not necessarily apply to Sami but Generally I'll say one thing

PCB and the selectors have never really appreciated or understood that a player can be good in one format and absolutely suck in the other

A players skill ain't universal.

Too often we've had a player doing well in one format and given a debut in the other format wherein he has sucked. Rather than just dropping him from the format where his performances have been poor, he ends up being dropped ALTOGETHER
 
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