"Was Sarfaraz Ahmed made captain so that he cannot question [the coach]?" : Younis Khan

[hadi123]

Younis Khan speaking on TV:

"Both Pakistan and India are lions at home but don't do well in overseas conditions"

"The reason for that, especially in India, is that the condition of pitches is very suitable for batsmen and the ground is lightning fast which is why their own as well as visiting batsmen perform very well out there"

"But we have examples of Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Javed Mianadad, Inzamam-ul-Haq etc who could perform at home and also in foreign conditions"

"In the days of Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib our [win] ratio was better outside than at home"

"But I want to talk in a constructive manner and select players who can play better in those conditions"

"We don't even have home conditions as such [ie UAE], and the setback for us is that we don't play in Pakistan"

"If you look at some of India pitches and games, they have a spinner opening the bowling in Test matches"

"Whenever I would play in Pakistan I would ask the curator what kind of bounce does this have? If he said very high, then I would be very happy"

"Problem is that when you lose at home, a lot of fuss is created because of that"

"Can the media PCB, Management, Media become brave and allow for difficult pitches at home?" [This is not exact translation due to YK's style of speaking but this is the message he was repeating]

"We cannot call CT victory fluke; The way Fakhar Zaman played his innings or Sarfaraz Ahmed's SL innings, or how Azhar Ali played or the way Hasan Ali bowled - this cannot be called a fluke"

"One match can be a fluke but you cannot have flukes one after another"

"The time after the Champions Trophy was the ideal time, the PCB and management should have addressed issues"

"At the moment, the team has lost and people are coming up with all sorts of idea such as drop this or that player etc"

"The time to think of more improvement is when you have won"

"What I have seen in my career is that whenever we lose, we put the blame on one player or coach or some person"

"As in if we do something about him then everything will be fixed"

"If we now say that let's take Mohammad Hafeez out of the team, will that make things right?"

"Why was he in the team in the first place?"

"You cannot solve this by taking a team of young players; Look at Australia, South Africa etc and tell me which top teams of the world has ALL young players in it?"

"Do what is best for the team, don't just make a team of young players for the sake of it"

"I hear people say that look the team is losing, so let's put all young players in it"

"There was time when we had young players in the team [during the time there was a ban on us], so what happened then?"

"Just Azhar Ali was a young player and he is still playing but what happened to the rest?"

"Is there another [young] player who is close to Mohammad Hafeez?"

"It's the young players who have played the ODI's; Who do you think has played the ODIs? [apart from young players]"

"To put the blame on M Hafeez or Azhar Ali and say that the team will be fixed [if they are removed]"

"We need to be alert now and fix the basics if we wish to move forward"

"By basics, I mean that we don't even know how the season will unfold ie will OD happen first or T20 games?"

"When the team is going for T20s, there is a OD tournament happening or when Tests are coming up, we are playing T20s [in domestic]"

"Kamran Akmal did well in one season, he was brought into the team and dropped"

"Now once again he is doing well and guess what is being said? Bring Kamran Akmal back"

"We drop Mohammad Hafeez, he goes back to Domestic and does well and then we will be sitting here saying, bring him [Hafeez] back as the youngsters are not good"

"We can be brave enough to make youngster-filled teams for all formats and then forget about results for 5 years"

"But this cannot happen in a country where millions follow the game and people are sitting on prayer mats praying for success in each game"

"Today we make a young team and we lose 2 matches, there will be everyone saying bring Mohammad Hafeez or Younis Khan back"

"When I am walking about, people approach me and ask why did you leave cricket?"

"This is how it is in our country"

"We have to finish this like/dislike culture"

"I have seen that there are cases where some are doing a fitness test, and others aren't"

"Was Sarfaraz made captain so that he cannot question [the coach]?"

"This happened before, when we had Azhar or Misbah as captain or now we have Sarfaraz"

"Sohail Khan performed very well and then Umar Akmal played 4 day and his performance is in front of us"

"Don't think that if I am saying something critical about a player here on TV, he won't find out about it"

"People shouldn't be sitting here saying things so that they can get job as a batting consultant"

 

[Mamoon]

I wonder if he will ever take that chip off his shoulder. On a non-serious note, the hot topic on PP, i.e. whether the Champions Trophy was a fluke or not, seems to have rubbed onto the ex-players as well.

One final word. If you have to discuss if a certain even was a fluke or not if you have to explain why something was not a fluke, then the chances are that it probably was.

 

[Sherlock]

Younis speaks very well there.

 

[Major]

"Do what is best for the team, don't just make a team of young players for the sake of it"
Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...he-coach-quot-Younis-Khan#YdCifmRXd51uWEdP.99

hypocrite....munafiq........

back in 2015, you know what was best for the team? the removal of Younis Khan from the ODI side.

This guy talks as if he is some unselfish guy who would make way for others or would go if he is not performing. Guy sucked in ODI cricket. Yet when he got dropped, he used the media in his favor.

Got a spot in the World Cup squad only because PCB cann't take action, and ended up losing because of him.

and now he sits and questions others.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Sensible comments for the most part.

 

[babajee]

I wonder if he will ever take that chip off his shoulder. On a non-serious note, the hot topic on PP, i.e. whether the Champions Trophy was a fluke or not, seems to have rubbed onto the ex-players as well.

One final word. If you have to discuss if a certain even was a fluke or not if you have to explain why something was not a fluke, then the chances are that it probably was.

No one even questioned whether it was a fluke until you started wrist slitting and spewing out the same garbage on every thread.

 

[Mamoon]

Speaking of Sarfraz, I have to say that it is quite a fall for a cricket mad nation with a 65 year heritage to have someone like him as captain. From men like Kardar, Imran and Wasim to Sarfraz - the regression of Pakistan cricket cannot be illustrated better.

Average cricketer, zero star quality and charisma, overage, zero communication skills. It is painful to see him lead the team.

The fact that Pakistan cannot find a single captain who can fit the right profile says it all. Young, world class cricketer, charismatic with good communication skills - someone who commands respect just by his presence.

Now let the talk of he doesn’t need to speak good English, people need to overcome their colonial mindset, he is better than Misbah and won the Champions Trophy etc. commence.

In summary: anyone who wants to see the decline of Pakistan cricket should take a look at the players who used to lead the team, and compare them to the player who is leading the team now.

 

[Mamoon]

No one even questioned whether it was a fluke until you started wrist slitting and spewing out the same garbage on every thread.

If Shoaib and Younis read PP I cannot do anything about it. I am entitled to my views and I don’t own any copyrights.

 

[babajee]

Speaking of Sarfraz, I have to say that it is quite a fall for a cricket mad nation with a 65 year heritage to have someone like him as captain. From men like Kardar, Imran and Wasim to Sarfraz - the regression of Pakistan cricket cannot be illustrated better.

Average cricketer, zero star quality and charisma, overage, zero communication skills. It is painful to see him lead the team.

The fact that Pakistan cannot find a single captain who can fit the right profile says it all. Young, world class cricketer, charismatic with good communication skills - someone who commands respect just by his presence.

Now let the talk of he doesn’t need to speak good English, people need to overcome their colonial mindset, he is better than Misbah and won the Champions Trophy etc. commence.

In summary: anyone who wants to see the decline of Pakistan cricket should take a look at the players who used to lead the team, and compare them to the player who is leading the team now.

Just support India... they have everything you want. ATG player captain who is good at English and commands respect by his presence. Star quality, charisma check.

MashaAllah

 

[Syed1]

Just support India... they have everything you want. ATG player captain who is good at English and commands respect by his presence. Star quality, charisma check.

MashaAllah

What makes you say he doesn't already support them?

 

[Usman Chadda]

I wonder if he will ever take that chip off his shoulder. On a non-serious note, the hot topic on PP, i.e. whether the Champions Trophy was a fluke or not, seems to have rubbed onto the ex-players as well.

One final word. If you have to discuss if a certain even was a fluke or not if you have to explain why something was not a fluke, then the chances are that it probably was.

Think it's time to let your ego go and admit it wasn't a 'fluke' or 'luck'. We didn't just beat India in the final, we massacred them infront of a packed stadium. You don't get the record for the biggest margin of defeat inflicted on any opponent in a final if you are not a good side. 'Luck' is how Bangladesh ended up in the semi-final of the CT, but of course that doesn't fit your narrative so you wouldn't think of that.

Younis is making up excuses for Hafeez here. A senior player is one that younger players can look up to. Yes, you cannot make a team of young players and put them out for lambs to slaughter. But when the seniors are evidently worse than the younger players, you have to kick them out. The fact that we discuss whether Hafeez or Malik should be in the team year-in year-out, despite both of them having about 32 years worth of experience, says it all really.

 

[Rayyman]

Sarfraz needs to be more bada**.

Grow a beard (not maulana style), get a haircut, get in great physical shape, learn better English or at least try without being a poser like Shezhad or Sangakkarra. Be intimidating. Also become a but smarter in terms of communication. He is probably the worst sledger among wicket-keepers.

God I was so embarrassed looking at the CT Final promos with Kohli and Sarfraz standing next to each other. I wished that VK was wearing green at toss instead of Saifi.

Strictly talking image here. Character wise he is great and has a big heart and is a lion.

 

[Mamoon]

Just support India... they have everything you want. ATG player captain who is good at English and commands respect by his presence. Star quality, charisma check.

MashaAllah

Whoever I support does not change the fact that the disparity between the two cricket nations with common roots, and the rise of India and the fall of Pakistan can be summed up by the fact that India’s leader is Virat Kohli, and Pakistan’s leader is Sarfraz Ahmed.

 

[PakSarZameen]

Younis supports Umar Akmal's comeback

 

[Mamoon]

Think it's time to let your ego go and admit it wasn't a 'fluke' or 'luck'. We didn't just beat India in the final, we massacred them infront of a packed stadium. You don't get the record for the biggest margin of defeat inflicted on any opponent in a final if you are not a good side. 'Luck' is how Bangladesh ended up in the semi-final of the CT, but of course that doesn't fit your narrative so you wouldn't think of that.

Younis is making up excuses for Hafeez here. A senior player is one that younger players can look up to. Yes, you cannot make a team of young players and put them out for lambs to slaughter. But when the seniors are evidently worse than the younger players, you have to kick them out. The fact that we discuss whether Hafeez or Malik should be in the team year-in year-out, despite both of them having about 32 years worth of experience, says it all really.

Law of Averages. Kohli has single-handedly crushed Pakistan for years, he was due a bad game. Similarly, the Indian top-order was also bound to fail for once.

India would beat us 8/10 times. It just so happened that the Champions Trophy Final proved to be one of those two ocassions.

Did we deserve to win? Of course. We were better on the day, but we are not a better team and we cannot extrapolate anything from that game.

 

[Hasan123]

Speaking of Sarfraz, I have to say that it is quite a fall for a cricket mad nation with a 65 year heritage to have someone like him as captain. From men like Kardar, Imran and Wasim to Sarfraz - the regression of Pakistan cricket cannot be illustrated better.

Average cricketer, zero star quality and charisma, overage, zero communication skills. It is painful to see him lead the team.

The fact that Pakistan cannot find a single captain who can fit the right profile says it all. Young, world class cricketer, charismatic with good communication skills - someone who commands respect just by his presence.

Now let the talk of he doesn’t need to speak good English, people need to overcome their colonial mindset, he is better than Misbah and won the Champions Trophy etc. commence.

In summary: anyone who wants to see the decline of Pakistan cricket should take a look at the players who used to lead the team, and compare them to the player who is leading the team now.

His fan boys are coming for you now. He's good tactically but he barely makes the team on merit. I hope our next captain makes the team on merit. Azhar,Misbah, and Sarfraz haven't made the team on merit in ODIs and that has played a part in there struggles.

 

[babajee]

His fan boys are coming for you now. He's good tactically but he barely makes the team on merit. I hope our next captain makes the team on merit. Azhar,Misbah, and Sarfraz haven't made the team on merit in ODIs and that has played a part in there struggles.

Let Sarfraz bat in the top 5 in ODIs and then we will see whether he makes the team on merit.

I’m not too keen on him though but he’s the best option to lead Pakistan through to the 2019 WC. Hopefully Shadab can be groomed for captaincy.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Law of Averages. Kohli has single-handedly crushed Pakistan for years, he was due a bad game. Similarly, the Indian top-order was also bound to fail for once.

India would beat us 8/10 times. It just so happened that the Champions Trophy Final proved to be one of those two ocassions.

Did we deserve to win? Of course. We were better on the day, but we are not a better team and we cannot extrapolate anything from that game.

Who's telling you to extrapolate anything from that game other than the fact that we literally destroyed India in the final of a major ICC tournament? Not sure about them beating us 8/10 times since they are pressure games, but no one in their right minds would say Pakistan is a better team than India right now in any format. However, Pakistan deserved to win the CT since no other team could handle the monstrous momentum they gained over the course of the tournament.

Heck I wouldn't call Bangladesh beating New Zealand a fluke, since the win was on the back of two of the greatest knocks played in an ICC tournament. Lucky they were, since Australia was handicapped basically due to the rain. Pakistan had nothing of this sort other than Perera dropping a dolly, which is the fielding team's incompetency.

Yes we know, you don't like the Pakistan cricket team. But at least have the decency to call it as it is rather than go against the flow just for the sake of it.

 

[Mamoon]

His fan boys are coming for you now. He's good tactically but he barely makes the team on merit. I hope our next captain makes the team on merit. Azhar,Misbah, and Sarfraz haven't made the team on merit in ODIs and that has played a part in there struggles.

The reason why we have had non-deserving captains is because we have not produced a world class cricketer in the 25-30 age bracket who also possess star quality and good communication skills.

Afridi was somewhat close to fitting the profile. He was a genuinely good LOI player in 2009-2011 and a massive star, but he was old and a poor captain.

 

[Hasan123]

Let Sarfraz bat in the top 5 in ODIs and then we will see whether he makes the team on merit.

I’m not too keen on him though but he’s the best option to lead Pakistan through to the 2019 WC. Hopefully Shadab can be groomed for captaincy.

Everyone says put him at 4 or 5 like he will turn into a world class batsmen. Those positions require players who can hit boundaries versus pace and spin. Sarfraz is rubbish versus pace. He is capable of rum a ball knocks but not match winning knocks. Everyone will point to the England series but ever since than his batting has been rubbish in all formats other than a few innings.

He can lead till 2019 WC but he isn't a long term opition. His fitness is poor, his keeping isn't great, and he is captain in all 3 formats. If he carries on with this burden and continues to lose games he won't be in the job for much longer.

Shadab or Hasan Ali are good opitions. They make the team on merit. Which is the first box you tick when selecting a captain.

 

[Lefthanded]

Disgraceful for players so recent from retiring to have a negative public persona and criticise people they've played with very recently.

 

[Usman Chadda]

His fan boys are coming for you now. He's good tactically but he barely makes the team on merit. I hope our next captain makes the team on merit. Azhar,Misbah, and Sarfraz haven't made the team on merit in ODIs and that has played a part in there struggles.

Sarfraz is captain because there is no other option. Hafeez and Malik will probably be dropped from the team, so giving them captaincy would have been a big slap in the face.

 

[Hasan123]

The reason why we have had non-deserving captains is because we have not produced a world class cricketer in the 25-30 age bracket who also possess star quality and good communication skills.

Afridi was somewhat close to fitting the profile. He was a genuinely good LOI player in 2009-2011 and a massive star, but he was old and a poor captain.

Shadab and Hasan Ali have the potential to be world class cricketers. They both have the star quality, not sure on communication skills but there young enough to pick them up. Both make the team on merit as well.

Hoping on of these 2 becomes captain in the future.

 

[Mamoon]

Who's telling you to extrapolate anything from that game other than the fact that we literally destroyed India in the final of a major ICC tournament? Not sure about them beating us 8/10 times since they are pressure games, but no one in their right minds would say Pakistan is a better team than India right now in any format. However, Pakistan deserved to win the CT since no other team could handle the monstrous momentum they gained over the course of the tournament.

Heck I wouldn't call Bangladesh beating New Zealand a fluke, since the win was on the back of two of the greatest knocks played in an ICC tournament. Lucky they were, since Australia was handicapped basically due to the rain. Pakistan had nothing of this sort other than Perera dropping a dolly, which is the fielding team's incompetency.

Yes we know, you don't like the Pakistan cricket team. But at least have the decency to call it as it is rather than go against the flow just for the sake of it.

I love Pakistan cricket but I prefer to be realistic. I also don’t have to prove my affection and loyalty to anyone.

Nonetheless, this is not about me but about the team. India handles pressure better than us and they are a better team, but they failed on that given day. Since we have agreed that they are better, this discussion has become void.

My posts are mainly aimed at the folks (who have posted in this thread) who stated that Pakistan is the best ODI team in the world bechase of the Champions Trophy and only England can give us a fight.

Those who agree that we are mediocre but did well to win 4 consecutive games are not wrong. However, I would insist that we had our fair share of luck and anything that could go right for us (and wrong for the opposition) did. The word fluke can be avoided, but it is just a convenient summary.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Mickey is the reason why we won CT. He is more precious then every single player combined.

 

[Hasan123]

Sarfraz is captain because there is no other option. Hafeez and Malik will probably be dropped from the team, so giving them captaincy would have been a big slap in the face.

Sarfraz should have been made captain in 2015 after the WC. That way we could have groomed someone for after the 2019 WC.

Hopeful Hasan or Shadab could become a future captain.

 

[Abdullah]

Mamoon logic. If favourite doesn't win, it's fluke,
If favourite doesn't win 3 in a row, it's fluke.
Y play the game, just look at the odds

 

[Mamoon]

Shadab and Hasan Ali have the potential to be world class cricketers. They both have the star quality, not sure on communication skills but there young enough to pick them up. Both make the team on merit as well.

Hoping on of these 2 becomes captain in the future.

We need a batsman to fit that profile. That is the only way we can compete with the best. The next generation of Pakistanis need to idolize that hypothetical player and not Hasan or Shadab or Amir.

Sadly, there is no such batsman in sight. The batting in the U-19 World Cup makes for a sorry reading.

 

[babajee]

Everyone says put him at 4 or 5 like he will turn into a world class batsmen. Those positions require players who can hit boundaries versus pace and spin. Sarfraz is rubbish versus pace. He is capable of rum a ball knocks but not match winning knocks. Everyone will point to the England series but ever since than his batting has been rubbish in all formats other than a few innings.

He can lead till 2019 WC but he isn't a long term opition. His fitness is poor, his keeping isn't great, and he is captain in all 3 formats. If he carries on with this burden and continues to lose games he won't be in the job for much longer.

Shadab or Hasan Ali are good opitions. They make the team on merit. Which is the first box you tick when selecting a captain.

I’m not even saying he will be world class. It’s just that he can’t contribute anything coming in the last 10 overs or so. It’s like if you forced Babar to play as a power hitter at 6.

I think he has been working on his batting, and it’s shown in a few innings on this tour.

 

[Hasan123]

I’m not even saying he will be world class. It’s just that he can’t contribute anything coming in the last 10 overs or so. It’s like if you forced Babar to play as a power hitter at 6.

I think he has been working on his batting, and it’s shown in a few innings on this tour.

Would rather play Talat,Maqsood, and some of the other players in domestic ahead of Sarfraz at 4 or 5.

He's done well but there boundaries are small and he's shown weakness versus spin on this tour which is supposed to be his strength.

 

[Hasan123]

We need a batsman to fit that profile. That is the only way we can compete with the best. The next generation of Pakistanis need to idolize that hypothetical player and not Hasan or Shadab or Amir.

Sadly, there is no such batsman in sight. The batting in the U-19 World Cup makes for a sorry reading.

Our best ever captain was a all rounder. Doesn't have to be a batsmen. Captains who are batsmen are usually defensive. Bowling captains think like bowlers. Most of the best captains bowled at first class level. Our strength is bowling so why not have a bowling captain?

There's talent in our domestic. Hussain Talat,Saud Shakeel,and Shazbinda Farhan. They just need to be given a chance.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Those who agree that we are mediocre but did well to win 4 consecutive games are not wrong. However, I would insist that we had our fair share of luck and anything that could go right for us (and wrong for the opposition) did. The word fluke can be avoided, but it is just a convenient summary.

No we did not. The opposition just couldn't handle the momentum Pakistan had generated. Exactly like the 2009 T20 World Cup. Not sure if you were too young at that time, but the script was pretty much the same. I don't remember people calling it a fluke or lucky at the time. The way we beat a red-hot South Africa in the semi-final was crazy. Its a known fact that once we generate this momentum, we are nigh impossible to stop. I was incredibly confident before this India v Pakistan encounter, and you would find a few posts of mine before the final where I stated Pakistan just has too much momentum for India to cope with on that day. South Africa, England and India tried their best but got blown away. Sri Lanka is the only team that could feel agrieved, but Thisara Perera is a member of the Sri Lankan cricket team and not Pakistan's problem.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Sarfraz should have been made captain in 2015 after the WC. That way we could have groomed someone for after the 2019 WC.

Hopeful Hasan or Shadab could become a future captain.

Hasan and Shadab should be kept away from captaincy thoughts until they have established themselves in international cricket, not just the Pakistan cricket team like Hafeez or Malik. Sarfraz is a good stop-gap solution. He should just stop sacrificing himself for these useless senior players.

 

[babajee]

No we did not. The opposition just couldn't handle the momentum Pakistan had generated. Exactly like the 2009 T20 World Cup. Not sure if you were too young at that time, but the script was pretty much the same. I don't remember people calling it a fluke or lucky at the time. The way we beat a red-hot South Africa in the semi-final was crazy. Its a known fact that once we generate this momentum, we are nigh impossible to stop. I was incredibly confident before this India v Pakistan encounter, and you would find a few posts of mine before the final where I stated Pakistan just has too much momentum for India to cope with on that day. South Africa, England and India tried their best but got blown away. Sri Lanka is the only team that could feel agrieved, but Thisara Perera is a member of the Sri Lankan cricket team and not Pakistan's problem.

When we generate this momentum we can beat anyone despite the glaring flaws in our team.

Most of us thought we could carry it on in NZ but we didn’t

 

[Usman Chadda]

When we generate this momentum we can beat anyone despite the glaring flaws in our team.

Most of us thought we could carry it on in NZ but we didn’t

NZ is a much better side than Pakistan right now, and there's no shame in admitting that. Our bowling stands up to theirs, but the batting is light-years inferior. Add to that, the fact that most of these guys were touring NZ for the first time. Very little preparation. The signs weren't great to be honest.

 

[MMHS]

Some good comments by YK, but that's the trend these days - you talk sense after retirement.

Only part I found a similar to his black mailing (for WC 2015), is the MoHa part - these people have survived longer than they should have by scratching each others back and the Silsila retirement ke baad vi zari hai.

 

[MMHS]

Sarfraz should have been made captain in 2015 after the WC. That way we could have groomed someone for after the 2019 WC.

Hopeful Hasan or Shadab could become a future captain.

From the other clip (on Hasan bashing one), I can see that Amir is probably the unofficial 2nd man of the team. In the "huddle" just after the "tu tu, mai mai", I noticed Ahmed, Amin and Hari were standing apart (Hari & Amin could be because of their personality traits - unless *** pains, I am not going to stand up), but Ahmed's position suggests, he is not in the frame. Amir was standing right by the side and if I am not wrong, Babar was very close.

Coming to your hope, Shadab should be the deputy; but there is no other option, but to make Amir Captain, even for 2/3 years - in case Sarfraz steps down.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

I wonder if he will ever take that chip off his shoulder. On a non-serious note, the hot topic on PP, i.e. whether the Champions Trophy was a fluke or not, seems to have rubbed onto the ex-players as well.

One final word. If you have to discuss if a certain even was a fluke or not if you have to explain why something was not a fluke, then the chances are that it probably was.

Anyone who goes around labelling tournament wins 'flukes' clearly has no understanding of sports in general. Unless your view of the game is so black and white, try to look at it with a little more insight. PAK won that CT with bonus points pretty much against the top teams in the world, and they won it on the back of their young core - the same young core of players that have been their best players in NZL as well. The reason they struggled so much in the NZL series was arguably down to some very poor, myopic selections by the management, poor form and foreign conditions (most teams come to NZL and lose). If winning 4 tournament matches in a row by some margin is considered a fluke then by the same token NZL winning the ODI series can be considered a fluke as well. But fortunately, sport doesn't work like.

Yes, you can argue that post-CT PAK still won't be a top ODI team because there is too much wrong with their system, etc but to call that single tournament in isolation a 'fluke' is spoken like someone who either has no understanding of the game and hovers over scorecards or is trying to paint a picture that suits their agenda.

 

[Monsee]

I wonder if he will ever take that chip off his shoulder. On a non-serious note, the hot topic on PP, i.e. whether the Champions Trophy was a fluke or not, seems to have rubbed onto the ex-players as well.

One final word. If you have to discuss if a certain even was a fluke or not if you have to explain why something was not a fluke, then the chances are that it probably was.

Or chances are you as usual, you are speaking from your backside...a whole tournament being a fluke is like saying India is the best team when touring outside Asisa

 

[msb314]

Whoever I support does not change the fact that the disparity between the two cricket nations with common roots, and the rise of India and the fall of Pakistan can be summed up by the fact that India’s leader is Virat Kohli, and Pakistan’s leader is Sarfraz Ahmed.

I am not Sarfeaz’s biggest fan but what is so surprising that he is the captain of our team right now?

He came through the youth ranks and was the captain of our U-19 squad - btw do you know who else captained at the U19 level and is now also captain of the national team ? Hint: he married Anushla Sharma recently

He is no Dhoni but is clearly our best WK batsman right now so makes the team on merit. Also had the necessary leadership experience as discussed above.

 

[Mamoon]

I am not Sarfeaz’s biggest fan but what is so surprising that he is the captain of our team right now?

He came through the youth ranks and was the captain of our U-19 squad - btw do you know who else captained at the U19 level and is now also captain of the national team ? Hint: he married Anushla Sharma recently

He is no Dhoni but is clearly our best WK batsman right now so makes the team on merit. Also had the necessary leadership experience as discussed above.

You misunderstood. My point is that people like Sarfraz leading the team when someone like Kohli is leading India is a testament to how much Pakistan cricket has regressed and Indian cricket has progressed.

It is not about whether Sarfraz came through the system or not. Of course he did, but his rise to the top shows the weakness of the system.

From men like Kardar, Imran and Wasim to Sarfraz. It is a huge fall.

On the the other hand, India have gone from people like Pataudi, Kapil, Ganguly to Kohli. Clearly, they have maintained their standards if not bettered.

 

[Mamoon]

Or chances are you as usual, you are speaking from your backside...a whole tournament being a fluke is like saying India is the best team when touring outside Asisa

Yes you can fluke a tournament. West Indies did in 2004, and since you have a phobia of Indian players and Indian cricket, you should be relieved to know that I also consider the 1983 World Cup a fluke - look at what West Indies did to India few months later.

 

[Mamoon]

Anyone who goes around labelling tournament wins 'flukes' clearly has no understanding of sports in general. Unless your view of the game is so black and white, try to look at it with a little more insight. PAK won that CT with bonus points pretty much against the top teams in the world, and they won it on the back of their young core - the same young core of players that have been their best players in NZL as well. The reason they struggled so much in the NZL series was arguably down to some very poor, myopic selections by the management, poor form and foreign conditions (most teams come to NZL and lose). If winning 4 tournament matches in a row by some margin is considered a fluke then by the same token NZL winning the ODI series can be considered a fluke as well. But fortunately, sport doesn't work like.

Yes, you can argue that post-CT PAK still won't be a top ODI team because there is too much wrong with their system, etc but to call that single tournament in isolation a 'fluke' is spoken like someone who either has no understanding of the game and hovers over scorecards or is trying to paint a picture that suits their agenda.

It was my understanding of the game that told me months ago that we will get a reality check in New Zealand, when people here were adamant that we will continue in the Champions Trophy mode and beat them.

I don’t like to blow my own trumpet, but I was probably the first person on this forum who predicted midway in the tournament (I think it was after the SA game) that Pakistan will win the Champions Trophy because the tournament had the WT20 2009 vibe to it.

Everything was falling in place for us.

Whatever could go right for us in the Champions Trophy did (favorable DRS, dropped catches, favorable pitch, poor decision by the opposition captain etc.).

This isn’t the first time a team has fluked a tournament and it won’t be the last time either. Pakistan will not win another Champions Trophy in the same conditions with the same set of players 99 out of 100 times. That is my definition of a flash in the pan victory. It was wonderful, but it was what it was - a one-off affair and quite miraculous in nature.

Furthermore, NZ are a superior team and they would beat us in a series anywhere 8/10 times. What happened in the last few weeks was not a fluke.

 

[Mamoon]

Our best ever captain was a all rounder. Doesn't have to be a batsmen. Captains who are batsmen are usually defensive. Bowling captains think like bowlers. Most of the best captains bowled at first class level. Our strength is bowling so why not have a bowling captain?

There's talent in our domestic. Hussain Talat,Saud Shakeel,and Shazbinda Farhan. They just need to be given a chance.

Different times. This is a batting era and we need a batting superstar. He doesn’t have to be a great captain, but we need a world class batsman as our flagship player.

 

[MenInG]

It was my understanding of the game that told me months ago that we will get a reality check in New Zealand, when people here were adamant that we will continue in the Champions Trophy mode and beat them.

I don’t like to blow my own trumpet, but I was probably the first person on this forum who predicted midway in the tournament (I think it was after the SA game) that Pakistan will win the Champions Trophy because the tournament had the WT20 2009 vibe to it.

Everything was falling in place for us.

Whatever could go right for us in the Champions Trophy did (favorable DRS, dropped catches, favorable pitch, poor decision by the opposition captain etc.).

This isn’t the first time a team has fluked a tournament and it won’t be the last time either. Pakistan will not win another Champions Trophy in the same conditions with the same set of players 99 out of 100 times. That is my definition of a flash in the pan victory. It was wonderful, but it was what it was - a one-off affair and quite miraculous in nature.

Furthermore, NZ are a superior team and they would beat us in a series anywhere 8/10 times. What happened in the last few weeks was not a fluke.

Inability to understand the fundamentals of the game or any sport, is very disturbing.

 

[Mamoon]

No we did not. The opposition just couldn't handle the momentum Pakistan had generated. Exactly like the 2009 T20 World Cup. Not sure if you were too young at that time, but the script was pretty much the same. I don't remember people calling it a fluke or lucky at the time. The way we beat a red-hot South Africa in the semi-final was crazy. Its a known fact that once we generate this momentum, we are nigh impossible to stop. I was incredibly confident before this India v Pakistan encounter, and you would find a few posts of mine before the final where I stated Pakistan just has too much momentum for India to cope with on that day. South Africa, England and India tried their best but got blown away. Sri Lanka is the only team that could feel agrieved, but Thisara Perera is a member of the Sri Lankan cricket team and not Pakistan's problem.

I am old enough to remember the 1999 World Cup.

The WT20 2009 is not a great example. Till 2010, T20 cricket had not evolved into a specialized format. Most teams used to play their ODI specialists and even Test specialists.

Pakistan were one of the top teams for the first few years of the format because it already had players like Afridi, Gul, Malik, Akmal brothers, Nazir, Razzaq, Ajmal etc. who played an aggressive brand of cricket.

There wasn’t a big gap between the teams and all the major teams had pretty much an equal chance of winning. It wasn’t like the ODI cricket of today where you have 3-4 top sides and then there is a considerable gulf.

The fact that we made two finals and one semifinal (which we lost due to a freak innings) in the first three WT20s was not a fluke or a miracle. That T20 team was a very good one for its era.

However, this current ODI side will not win the Champions Trophy in the same conditions 99/100 times. It was no different to West Indies winning it in 2004 and India winning the World Cup in 1983.

All this momentum etc. sounds romantic but it doesn’t mean anything. It just a word.

South Africa choked with the bat as usual, but the D/L allowed us to get out of jail. We would probably have scraped through anyway, but we were set for a nervy finish.

In the Sri Lankan match, but teams were awful with the bat but bowled well. However, Perera walked us across the finish line thanks to the dropped catches.

In the semifinal, England were undone by a sluggish, used pitch. Had we played them on a batting pitch which was the norm in the tournament, they would have shown us what momentum means.

On that slow pitch, their batsmen were not able to adjust overnight and our sluggish batsmen felt at home chasing a low total. Furthermore, the abrasive surface brought our bowlers into play. We certainly got a lucky break, because we would not have beaten them on a good batting wicket.

In the final, we benefited from Kohli’s mistake of bowling first. He took the strength of his team into consideration but not the weakness of the opposition.

We are world renowned chokers when it comes to chasing, and we would not have chased anything above 250. It would have been Mohali all over again, and our batsmen would have shown our fans what momentum means.

The Indian batsmen were due a failure including Kohli, who for once did not absorb everything Pakistan threw at him. The Law of Averages and a poor decision to bowl first cost India the game, combined with the fact that an inferior team played better cricket than a superior team on that given day.

It wasn’t about momentum.

 

[Mamoon]

Inability to understand the fundamentals of the game or any sport, is very disturbing.

I agree. It was disturbing to see the predicted scorelines leading up to the NZ ODI series.

 

[Mamoon]

it was my understanding of the game that told me months ago that we will get a reality check in new zealand, when people here were adamant that we will continue in the champions trophy mode and beat them.

I don’t like to blow my own trumpet, but i was probably the first person on this forum who predicted midway in the tournament (i think it was after the sa game) that pakistan will win the champions trophy because the tournament had the wt20 2009 vibe to it.

Everything was falling in place for us.

Whatever could go right for us in the champions trophy did (favorable drs, dropped catches, favorable pitch, poor decision by the opposition captain etc.).

This isn’t the first time a team has fluked a tournament and it won’t be the last time either. Pakistan will not win another champions trophy in the same conditions with the same set of players 99 out of 100 times. That is my definition of a flash in the pan victory. It was wonderful, but it was what it was - a one-off affair and quite miraculous in nature.

Furthermore, nz are a superior team and they would beat us in a series anywhere 8/10 times. What happened in the last few weeks was not a fluke.

d/l*

 

[Mamoon]

When we generate this momentum we can beat anyone despite the glaring flaws in our team.

Most of us thought we could carry it on in NZ but we didn’t

Please read post #47.

I have explained why this so-called momentum is a myth. If you are going to continue believing in something that does not exist, you will only set yourself up for disappointments.

People who knew that all this talk of momentum is nonsense where aware of what was coming for us in the New Zealand ODI series.

 

[Sher Khan]

Frankly speaking, that Sri Lanka game was indeed a fluke and we would have been knocked out of the tournament after losing that match. Earlier, the rain had saved us in the South Africa match. Almost, everything possible went our way. Whilst, as a Pakistani I may be happy about our achievement, that CT win has deluded our fans into thinking we are the no 1 side in the world.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

It was my understanding of the game that told me months ago that we will get a reality check in New Zealand, when people here were adamant that we will continue in the Champions Trophy mode and beat them.

I don’t like to blow my own trumpet, but I was probably the first person on this forum who predicted midway in the tournament (I think it was after the SA game) that Pakistan will win the Champions Trophy because the tournament had the WT20 2009 vibe to it.

Everything was falling in place for us.

Whatever could go right for us in the Champions Trophy did (favorable DRS, dropped catches, favorable pitch, poor decision by the opposition captain etc.).

This isn’t the first time a team has fluked a tournament and it won’t be the last time either. Pakistan will not win another Champions Trophy in the same conditions with the same set of players 99 out of 100 times. That is my definition of a flash in the pan victory. It was wonderful, but it was what it was - a one-off affair and quite miraculous in nature.

Furthermore, NZ are a superior team and they would beat us in a series anywhere 8/10 times. What happened in the last few weeks was not a fluke.

I agree with your opinion on how OTT some of the predictions were for the NZL series however, can you please explain to me how the wins against IND and ENG were flukes? I am not saying we are better teams, simply saying that we played better cricket than them on the day and we showed enough in that tournament to suggest that we still have talented cricketers in PAK. I know what you are trying to say - that a one off CT win doesn't make us a top team - but please stop calling it a fluke. A fluke is the 2014 Asia Cup game against IND where Afridi closed his eyes and miscued a couple of sixes, the CT was anything but.

 

[Mamoon]

Please read post #47.

I have explained why this so-called momentum is a myth. If you are going to continue believing in something that does not exist, you will only set yourself up for disappointments.

People who knew that all this talk of momentum is nonsense where aware of what was coming for us in the New Zealand ODI series.

disappointment*

 

[Mamoon]

I agree with your opinion on how OTT some of the predictions were for the NZL series however, can you please explain to me how the wins against IND and ENG were flukes? I am not saying we are better teams, simply saying that we played better cricket than them on the day and we showed enough in that tournament to suggest that we still have talented cricketers in PAK. I know what you are trying to say - that a one off CT win doesn't make us a top team - but please stop calling it a fluke. A fluke is the 2014 Asia Cup game against IND where Afridi closed his eyes and miscued a couple of sixes, the CT was anything but.

I have explained those two games in post #47. The used pitch in Cardiff played a big role vs England. We would not have been able to contain them on a good pitch, which was the norm in the tournament.

I agree that unlike Miandad’s six which involved a lot of thought-process, what Afridi did in that Asia Cup match was a massive fluke. They were blind slogs, and the boundaries were short enough for the mis-hits to clear the rope.

 

[AAli98]

Theres a good saying for people like this Mamoon guy:

The chicken dish made at home looks like Dhaal dish

The neighbors dhaal dish tastes like chicken dish.

The grass is greener on the other side.

 

[MRSN]

Theres a good saying for people like this Mamoon guy:

The chicken dish made at home looks like Dhaal dish

The neighbors dhaal dish tastes like chicken dish.

The grass is greener on the other side.

how many home ODI series India has lost against big teams? how many Pakistan has won? Would this current Indian team get whitewashed by this NZ team in this fashion? This analogy is wrong.

 

[DRsohail]

I wonder if he will ever take that chip off his shoulder. On a non-serious note, the hot topic on PP, i.e. whether the Champions Trophy was a fluke or not, seems to have rubbed onto the ex-players as well.

One final word. If you have to discuss if a certain even was a fluke or not if you have to explain why something was not a fluke, then the chances are that it probably was.

Forget about fluke and non fluke discussion i am astonished that this guy speaks so randomly and i am sure he even hiiself does not know what to convey.bus boltay rahtay ha..

 

[Markhor]

Sarfraz needs to be more bada**.

Grow a beard (not maulana style), get a haircut, get in great physical shape, learn better English or at least try without being a poser like Shezhad or Sangakkarra. Be intimidating. Also become a but smarter in terms of communication. He is probably the worst sledger among wicket-keepers.

God I was so embarrassed looking at the CT Final promos with Kohli and Sarfraz standing next to each other. I wished that VK was wearing green at toss instead of Saifi.

Strictly talking image here. Character wise he is great and has a big heart and is a lion.

The only image that mattered was Sarfraz lifting the trophy in the white jacket.

Pakistanis are too obsessed with flash and image instead of substance. Whether he looks intimidating or can sledge is of no bearing to his captaincy skills.

 

[MenInG]

the only image that mattered was sarfraz lifting the trophy in the white jacket.

Pakistanis are too obsessed with flash and image instead of substance. Whether he looks intimidating or can sledge is of no bearing to his captaincy skills.

Post of The Year.

 

[Markhor]

In the semifinal, England were undone by a sluggish, used pitch. Had we played them on a batting pitch which was the norm in the tournament, they would have shown us what momentum means.

On that slow pitch, their batsmen were not able to adjust overnight and our sluggish batsmen felt at home chasing a low total. Furthermore, the abrasive surface brought our bowlers into play. We certainly got a lucky break, because we would not have beaten them on a good batting wicket.

Is that why England have beaten us in 7 out of the last 8 ODIs on the dry, abrasive surfaces of the UAE ?

 

[letme alone]

The only image that mattered was Sarfraz lifting the trophy in the white jacket.

Pakistanis are too obsessed with flash and image instead of substance. Whether he looks intimidating or can sledge is of no bearing to his captaincy skills.

less improtent thing is more importent for us .lets clear them then we discuss over main substance.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

it was akthar before saying Hafeez shouldn't be dropped... he was dropped because he makes selfish fifties and eating a lot of dot balls... so what is bothering these so called "seniors" if hafeez is dropped for good...

No team in this world are still playing players who debuted in the 90s except Pakistan

 

[pakistani pride]

Speaking of Sarfraz, I have to say that it is quite a fall for a cricket mad nation with a 65 year heritage to have someone like him as captain. From men like Kardar, Imran and Wasim to Sarfraz - the regression of Pakistan cricket cannot be illustrated better.

Average cricketer, zero star quality and charisma, overage, zero communication skills. It is painful to see him lead the team.

The fact that Pakistan cannot find a single captain who can fit the right profile says it all. Young, world class cricketer, charismatic with good communication skills - someone who commands respect just by his presence.

Now let the talk of he doesn’t need to speak good English, people need to overcome their colonial mindset, he is better than Misbah and won the Champions Trophy etc. commence.

In summary: anyone who wants to see the decline of Pakistan cricket should take a look at the players who used to lead the team, and compare them to the player who is leading the team now.

Wasim for all his so called charisma chickend out vs india in 96 and chocked in the other games he played.

Sarfaraz will always be THE captain that won the BIGGEST ever ODI games between the 2 rivals. Kohli your captain as the loser in the biggest game ever.

 

[pakistani pride]

Sarfraz needs to be more bada**.

Grow a beard (not maulana style), get a haircut, get in great physical shape, learn better English or at least try without being a poser like Shezhad or Sangakkarra. Be intimidating. Also become a but smarter in terms of communication. He is probably the worst sledger among wicket-keepers.

God I was so embarrassed looking at the CT Final promos with Kohli and Sarfraz standing next to each other. I wished that VK was wearing green at toss instead of Saifi.

Strictly talking image here. Character wise he is great and has a big heart and is a lion.

LOL Kohli himself doesnt look bad.... he is short and tiny...

 

[AAli98]

Wasim for all his so called charisma chickend out vs india in 96 and chocked in the other games he played.

Sarfaraz will always be THE captain that won the BIGGEST ever ODI games between the 2 rivals. Kohli your captain as the loser in the biggest game ever.

Winning the sunday league cup last year was good feeling. Champs trophy has no history u hav NZ SL WI winning this cup.

Losing QF wrld cup in 96 (officially we weren’t world champs anymore)

& the 2011 SF were bitter pills to swallow

 

[pakistani pride]

Winning the sunday league cup last year was good feeling. Champs trophy has no history u hav NZ SL WI winning this cup.

Losing QF wrld cup in 96 (officially we weren’t world champs anymore)

& the 2011 SF were bitter pills to swallow

Thats how you see it and thats your opinion.
I am reacting to our parosee about so called charismatic leaders like W. Akram.

 

[Bewal Express]

There is no such thing as a fluke. They played well after the Ind game and won. They didnt benefit unfairly from conditions nor did any umpires make howlers that gave them an unfair advantage. Some people make up stories because it suits their narrative. Get over Ind got smashed and you cant spout rubbish.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Younis Khan has been the only sincere fellow in our otherwise 'well-connected' team. Younis has more credibility than Shoaib 'actor' who have had a more colourful past and wasted himself.

Younis revealed Sarfaraz is'nt that much part of the decion making which he should as he would get flak from the media unnecessarily. He and Arthur need to have more say in the squad selection.

Our biggest problem is the media manipulation that instigates public wrongly.

The easiest thing for them to say is to say just replace the one who is in, with the one who is out. Hafeez and Azhar are more in trouble than the real problem child like Shoaib Malik, which is why Younis is trying to side withhim, which seniors usually do with their own biases.

Don't want Hafeez to be dropped but if he 'protests' and tries to play politics in the team against the management than there should be zero tolerance for that. Somewhat disagree with Younis, seniors have had their time and youngsters need to be brought in.

Youngsters need to be developed and nurtured by giving them proper experience. We need to develop a middle order 'badly' with specialists like Usman Salahuddin, Tallat, Saad Ali and they need at least one foreign tour to be assessed and carried forward to improve our chances in the future.

Youngsters are more needed in the batting department and I wish to say I firmly believe inPakistan talent nad think there are many in Pakistan who can easily replace likes of Shoaib Malik or Asad Shafiq and have the game to adapt in foreign conditions, for which they need to be nurtured and given opportunities, and we can build a 3 for every position in the team.

Agree that Sohail Khan deserves to return, we have been a bowler short thruout the NZ tour and board should sort out his issues with team management.

 

[barah_admi]

I agree with the overall sentiment that it isnt just the old players fault but Hafeez no longer warrants a place in the side and Ali probably isnt an ODI player. That doesnt mean you completely discount experience .Sarfraz is experienced, Malik is experienced etc.

I disagree with the constant bashing of management/captain and trying to make backroom issues out of nothing. If they want, criticise his on field antics but stop trying to cause problems elsewhere.

I do have one question, who is the curator for the UAE pitch? ABout a year ago I saw on a broadcast that the chief Pakistani curator only came for the odd visit, while the groundsmen in UAE were Indian.

 

[IMMY69]

I didn’t vote on the prediction thread but I had I done so I would have voted 3-2 or even a 4-1 Pakistan victory. Only because I never vote against Pakistan even after applying logic...

Similarly, when got thrashed by India in the first game of CT against India I never gave up hope.


Why? Because this is Cricket and anything can happen and Pakistan has the ability to pull something out of the fire. This is the great beauty of Pakistan Cricket.

1992
2007 - reading final
2009 - winning
2005 - beating England 2-0 after they just beat Aussies in Ashes
2011 - semi final
2012 - white washing England’s at Home
2016 - drawing with England in England
2013 - beating India in India

Above is just a small sample and to call CT victory a fluke is simply absurd

 

[Mamoon]

Is that why England have beaten us in 7 out of the last 8 ODIs on the dry, abrasive surfaces of the UAE ?

They will also beat us on that Cardiff pitch 7 out of 8 times. The SF win was a one-affair similar to the first ODI in 2015.

The English batsmen struggled with the pace of the pitch in the first ODI but once they adjusted, they blew us away.

 

[IMMY69]

Also the lack of consistency and lack of batting talent is completely down to our first class system.

 

[Hasan123]

From the other clip (on Hasan bashing one), I can see that Amir is probably the unofficial 2nd man of the team. In the "huddle" just after the "tu tu, mai mai", I noticed Ahmed, Amin and Hari were standing apart (Hari & Amin could be because of their personality traits - unless *** pains, I am not going to stand up), but Ahmed's position suggests, he is not in the frame. Amir was standing right by the side and if I am not wrong, Babar was very close.

Coming to your hope, Shadab should be the deputy; but there is no other option, but to make Amir Captain, even for 2/3 years - in case Sarfraz steps down.

Good observation. Didn't notice that. There is no official VC .

Shadab can be a VC to Babar or Amir. But I want to see him captain the side once he has enough experience.

 

[waleed88]

Speaking of Sarfraz, I have to say that it is quite a fall for a cricket mad nation with a 65 year heritage to have someone like him as captain. From men like Kardar, Imran and Wasim to Sarfraz - the regression of Pakistan cricket cannot be illustrated better.

Average cricketer, zero star quality and charisma, overage, zero communication skills. It is painful to see him lead the team.

The fact that Pakistan cannot find a single captain who can fit the right profile says it all. Young, world class cricketer, charismatic with good communication skills - someone who commands respect just by his presence.

Now let the talk of he doesn’t need to speak good English, people need to overcome their colonial mindset, he is better than Misbah and won the Champions Trophy etc. commence.

In summary: anyone who wants to see the decline of Pakistan cricket should take a look at the players who used to lead the team, and compare them to the player who is leading the team now.

Great post, skipped a few captains in between like Miandad, Inzamam and Mohammad Yousuf with 'great' communication skills.
Inzi with one of the longest terms as captain as anyone in the names you mentioned above.

 

[waleed88]

As far as I've seen here are the list of captains with a summary of their pros and cons :

Imran Khan - Over aggressive at times, great at man management, tactically naive in the beginning. Led by example, built confidence in youngsters.

Javed Miandad - Tactically astute, lacked communication skills and man management.

Wasim Akram - Of the mold of Imran, learnt at the job, famous for infightings, groupings, politics in the team. Scandal of match fixing rocked his captaincy to the core.

Waqar Younis - tactically defensive, wouldn't be playing if he wasn't captain, insecure, groupings in-fighting in the side. Politics with rivals.

Inzamam - tactically defensive, led by example, poor communication skills, religious obligations made part of the cricket side.

Mohammad Yousuf - almost a carbon copy of what Inzi brought to the team.

Shoaib Malik - short stint followed infighting groupings, too junior to captain a side full of ambitious wannabe captains.

Shahid Afridi - overly aggressive, tactically naiive, charismatic but major brain farts part of deal, from amazing to ridiculous in the span of one game.

Younis Khan : tactically astute, lacked man management and communication skills. Specially sore relationships with PCB Board members.

Misbah - calm, collected, unreactive, boring and dull at times, the most unfavored/unpopular captain in media circles, probably the most disliked. Captaincy - mostly defensive with the rare aggression shown a few games.

Azhar Ali - almost a carbon copy of Misbah, couldn't sustain the pressure Misbah did.

Sarfraz - more of the mold of Miandad and Younis Khan, tactically astute, lacking communication skills. Public flogging of his players will get him in trouble with captaincy.

 

[CricVet]

Sarfraz does need to cut his unnecessary rants down. I have hardly seen any captain behaving as he has so far. I however, besides Shadab, do not see one person capable of leading this team which is full of novices and a few seniors who should be thrown out ASAP which is a separate matter.

Whether someone like it or not, Sarfraz is the best tactician we have at this point with decent-good batting/wicket keeping skills. I hope that someone just knock some sense in his head that ranting will soon cause grouping in the team. He has to realize that he is not leading Pak under 19.

Sarfraz should lead Pak for next few years and I would love to see Shadab leading the side afterward. Is there a country in this world that causes more drama and trauma.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Law of Averages. Kohli has single-handedly crushed Pakistan for years, he was due a bad game. Similarly, the Indian top-order was also bound to fail for once.

India would beat us 8/10 times. It just so happened that the Champions Trophy Final proved to be one of those two ocassions.

Did we deserve to win? Of course. We were better on the day, but we are not a better team and we cannot extrapolate anything from that game.

So tell me this. In a hypothetical world, how should Pakistan win against India so that its not deemed a fluke? Crushing them by almost 200 runs apparently wasn't enough for you.

I don't think you know how sports in general work to be honest. A competitive game between 2 teams is about who performs better on the day. Past performances have no direct impact on the outcome of a game on a given day. There might be psychological issues present in the players minds, but no factor that arises from the sport of cricket itself. If a team makes a comeback and wins 5 straight games in a row in a world tournament, then i would think that the team is gaining momentum and peaking at a good time rather than marching towards an all-time great fluke. No sports team wins a tournament without a bit of luck going their way. Luck gives teams a window of opportunity, and its up to the players and how they avail that chance. For example, Fakhar could have been out if that no ball wasn't bowled, but he made the most of that chance and it has lead to us having this conversation. You don't win a whole tournament because of a "fluke". And you definitely don't win a whole tournament because things just happen to go your way.

The whole point of a champions trophy and a world cup is to see how teams perform when the stakes are high and they are forced to play against the best of the world. If the game was all about law of averages or track records, then the trophy would be given to the number one ranked team and there would never be any tournaments or world cups.

What we can "extrapolate" from this is that Pakistan, against all odds proved to the world that we have world class players that can rise up to the occasion. We can also extrapolate that these players are able to withstand the pressure of a tournament final against their arch rivals and outclass them in every department. This in no way proves that Pakistan is better than India, but it gives us a reason to be even more excited for the next inevitable pak-india encounter.

As for the all-time great fascinating marvelous mamoon approved Indian batting order, its not the first time their batting order has succumbed to our bowling. The Asia cup 2016 clash might ring some bells. They weren't "bound" to fail for once, they were outclassed by some of the best bowling in the world. Each time the batsmen walks out to bat, it is a new game of chance. Saying that they were bound to fail means they cant maintain the consistency with which they play, not to mention bring their A game when required the most. If they cant do that, then they should never win a trophy ever again, since its all about performing when it matters in a tournament, not just winning bilaterals.

 

[Pete Rose]

Two types of extremism on this thread: over-reading Pakistan’s victory at CT and over-reading Pakistan’s failure as well.

 

[Mamoon]

Great post, skipped a few captains in between like Miandad, Inzamam and Mohammad Yousuf with 'great' communication skills.
Inzi with one of the longest terms as captain as anyone in the names you mentioned above.

The decline from Kardar/Imran/Wasim has been progressive. After Wasim, we had average personalities but they were pretty good players. Inzamam, MoYo, Misbah and even Afridi to an extent falls into that category.

Unfortunately, Sarfraz is a first or rather the second (after Misbah's protege): an average cricketer with an average personality.

 

[Pete Rose]

Is it me, or does anybody understand if there is any coherence to what YK is saying. Its like the same 500 words per minute rubbish he spouts in post match conferences, which make zero sense.

 

[pakistani pride]

The decline from Kardar/Imran/Wasim has been progressive. After Wasim, we had average personalities but they were pretty good players. Inzamam, MoYo, Misbah and even Afridi to an extent falls into that category.

Unfortunately, Sarfraz is a first or rather the second (after Misbah's protege): an average cricketer with an average personality.

Talking about all time lows was when Afridi led us during the world T20 with his below average performances.

Sarfaraz took over and we are the no 1 side in T20s plus thr first Asian team to win a series in NZ.