Was South Africa the best Test team of the 1970s?

[Harsh Thakor]

When I run down cricket history it is fascinating which teams established supremacy at its ultimate zenith or posessed cricketing talent of phenomenal proportions.At its best West Indies and Australia ruled the cricketing world like an invincible emperor.,running over all opposition.

Pakistan posesssed phenomenal talent and at their best a champion team but could not bind themselves together to consistently match the supremacy of the all-time great teams.

In my opinion one side that was man to man on par with the great Australia or West Indian teams at their best was South Africa of the 1970's.It had the best opening batsmen and amongst the top 5 batsmen of all time in Barry Richards.In Graeme Pollock it had the batsmen with the best test average after Bradman and left-hander in the Gary Sobers class,arguably even more talented.Mike Procter arguably was in all-round cricketing skill the best after Gary Sobers and a more talented fast bowling allrounder than Keith Miller or Imran Khan.Eddie Barlow and Clive Rice were accomplished allrounders,with staggering figures in 1st class cricket.Peter Pollock was genuinely fast and one of the premier pacemen of his day.Van de Bijl was one of the most lethal exponents of fast -medium pace bowling while Garth le Roux posessed devastating speed being almost as quick as Thomson or Holding.It had the best wicketkeeper batsmen since Les Ames in Denis Lindsay or Lee Ervine and a most talented leg-spinner in John Traicos or Denis Hobson later.We must take into acount the great performances of players like Barry Richards in World series supertests toping the batting averages as well as Mike Procter and Garth Le Roux.

The great West Indies or Australian teams of the 1970's did not have a great allrounder ,while the Proteas had 3 of them.South Africa had greater batting depth and were also a better fielding side.No team beaten Australian side ever so comprehensively as South Africa did in 1969-70,not even Clive Lloyd's invincible West Indies team.

The Calypso advantage lay in the hostility of their pace quartet which resembled an army continuously firing cylinders.The best batsmen became victims of their continuous bombardment,including Greg Chappell and ZaheerAbbas .It also had the most explosive middle order batting in line up with Viv Richards,Clive Lloyd and Alvin Kalicharan in addition to a solid opening pair in Greenidge and Haynes.Such batsmen could take the best of bowling attacks to the shreds,giving the opposition the ultimate battering.

Australia posessed the best opening fast bowling pair in Lillee and Thomson.The former was the epitome of fast bowling perfection and hostility while the latter took the bio-dynamics of speed to another zone in cricket .Similary the Chappell brothers were contrasting with Greg the technical perfectionist and run accumulator while Ian although rugged the best of batsmen in a crisis.They were other very accomplished batsmen like Doug Walters,Ross Edwards,Keith Stackpole and talented fast-medium pace bowlers in Max Walker,Geoff Dymock or Bob Massie.From a technical angle its batting was better than West Indies but I do not think they would have equalled the Calypso batting agression.What would give this team a cutting edge was the great tactical skil and motivational ability of skipper Ian Chappell.Umpire Dickie Bird ranked this team led by Ian Chappell as the best ever.To me even if it comprehensively trounced West Indies 5-1 the margin hardly reflected the difference between the 2 sides with umpiring being very partial.

Pakistan had the strongest batting line up of the decade with Majid,Sadiq,Zaheer Javed,Asif Iqbal,Mushtaq,Wasim Raja,Imran Khan etc
They had great pacemen in Imran and Sarafraz and an great allrounder in Mushtaq Muhammad but did not have such a potent bowling attack overall.It must be said that but for some dubious umpiring decisions in the 1st test at Barbados Pakistan would have drawn the rubber in West Indies in a 5test series against a team that had just demolished England by a 3-0 margin the previous season.It also drew with Australia in 1976-77 which was considered the best team in the world.

With a gun on my head I would back South Africa because of the abundance of all-rounders variety in bowling attack,batting depth and fielding standards.Mike Procter would have been the ultimate match -winnner as an allrounder,being the equivalent of Keith Miller ,Ian Botham or Imran Khan as a match winning allround cricketer.I would have backed South Africa to excel on the fast bouncy surfaces of Australia or West Indies or the seaming pitches of England.-,with the vast experience of the players in English county cricket.I would have backed the 1970's team to defeat the later top South African teams after its re-entry in 1991.Still the Proteas never proved it because of their test ban So on the basis of pure performance to me it is the West Indies team of 1979 which comprehensively beat Australia.It is also questionable how South Africa would have fared on the turning sub-continent pitches and whether they would have emulated the victorious post-1991 teams.Another criteria whether South Africa had a skipper who could motivate their players like Clive Lloyd or Ian Chappell.

So the 2 questions are pitting the 1970 South African team against the other titans and the other is the South African team of the 1970's decade against those of that decade.Again man to man South Africa but never proved like West Indies or Australia.

1970's South Africa

Barry Richards
Eddie Barlow
Graeme Pollock (C)
Peter Kirsten
Alan Lamb
Mike Procter
Clive Rice
Lee Ervine (W)
Peter Pollock
Garth Le Roux
Denis Hobson


1970's West Indies
Gordon Greenidge
Roy Fredricks
Viv Richards
Rohan Kanhai
Clive Lloyd(C)
Gary Sobers
Deryk Murray (W)
Andy Roberts
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Colin Croft


1970's Australia

Ian Redpath
Rick Mckosker
Ian Chappell (C)
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Doug Walters
Rodney Marsh (W)
Dennis Lillee
Jeff Thomson
Max Walker
Ashley Mallet

 

[Junaids]

You would replace the ageing Peter Pollock with the ATG Vince Van Der Bijl, a Glenn McGrath / Joel Garner clone.

Eddie Barlow was in decline by the mid-70’s: the second opener would be Henry Fotheringham or Neil McKenzie’s dad Kevin.

They were certainly the strongest team until 1978: but by 1978 you could argue that the West Indies might have caught them up.

 

[tyron_woodley]

When I run down cricket history it is fascinating which teams established supremacy at its ultimate zenith or posessed cricketing talent of phenomenal proportions.At its best West Indies and Australia ruled the cricketing world like an invincible emperor.,running over all opposition.

Pakistan posesssed phenomenal talent and at their best a champion team but could not bind themselves together to consistently match the supremacy of the all-time great teams.

In my opinion one side that was man to man on par with the great Australia or West Indian teams at their best was South Africa of the 1970's.It had the best opening batsmen and amongst the top 5 batsmen of all time in Barry Richards.In Graeme Pollock it had the batsmen with the best test average after Bradman and left-hander in the Gary Sobers class,arguably even more talented.Mike Procter arguably was in all-round cricketing skill the best after Gary Sobers and a more talented fast bowling allrounder than Keith Miller or Imran Khan.Eddie Barlow and Clive Rice were accomplished allrounders,with staggering figures in 1st class cricket.Peter Pollock was genuinely fast and one of the premier pacemen of his day.Van de Bijl was one of the most lethal exponents of fast -medium pace bowling while Garth le Roux posessed devastating speed being almost as quick as Thomson or Holding.It had the best wicketkeeper batsmen since Les Ames in Denis Lindsay or Lee Ervine and a most talented leg-spinner in John Traicos or Denis Hobson later.We must take into acount the great performances of players like Barry Richards in World series supertests toping the batting averages as well as Mike Procter and Garth Le Roux.

The great West Indies or Australian teams of the 1970's did not have a great allrounder ,while the Proteas had 3 of them.South Africa had greater batting depth and were also a better fielding side.No team beaten Australian side ever so comprehensively as South Africa did in 1969-70,not even Clive Lloyd's invincible West Indies team.

The Calypso advantage lay in the hostility of their pace quartet which resembled an army continuously firing cylinders.The best batsmen became victims of their continuous bombardment,including Greg Chappell and ZaheerAbbas .It also had the most explosive middle order batting in line up with Viv Richards,Clive Lloyd and Alvin Kalicharan in addition to a solid opening pair in Greenidge and Haynes.Such batsmen could take the best of bowling attacks to the shreds,giving the opposition the ultimate battering.

Australia posessed the best opening fast bowling pair in Lillee and Thomson.The former was the epitome of fast bowling perfection and hostility while the latter took the bio-dynamics of speed to another zone in cricket .Similary the Chappell brothers were contrasting with Greg the technical perfectionist and run accumulator while Ian although rugged the best of batsmen in a crisis.They were other very accomplished batsmen like Doug Walters,Ross Edwards,Keith Stackpole and talented fast-medium pace bowlers in Max Walker,Geoff Dymock or Bob Massie.From a technical angle its batting was better than West Indies but I do not think they would have equalled the Calypso batting agression.What would give this team a cutting edge was the great tactical skil and motivational ability of skipper Ian Chappell.Umpire Dickie Bird ranked this team led by Ian Chappell as the best ever.To me even if it comprehensively trounced West Indies 5-1 the margin hardly reflected the difference between the 2 sides with umpiring being very partial.

Pakistan had the strongest batting line up of the decade with Majid,Sadiq,Zaheer Javed,Asif Iqbal,Mushtaq,Wasim Raja,Imran Khan etc
They had great pacemen in Imran and Sarafraz and an great allrounder in Mushtaq Muhammad but did not have such a potent bowling attack overall.It must be said that but for some dubious umpiring decisions in the 1st test at Barbados Pakistan would have drawn the rubber in West Indies in a 5test series against a team that had just demolished England by a 3-0 margin the previous season.It also drew with Australia in 1976-77 which was considered the best team in the world.

With a gun on my head I would back South Africa because of the abundance of all-rounders variety in bowling attack,batting depth and fielding standards.Mike Procter would have been the ultimate match -winnner as an allrounder,being the equivalent of Keith Miller ,Ian Botham or Imran Khan as a match winning allround cricketer.I would have backed South Africa to excel on the fast bouncy surfaces of Australia or West Indies or the seaming pitches of England.-,with the vast experience of the players in English county cricket.I would have backed the 1970's team to defeat the later top South African teams after its re-entry in 1991.Still the Proteas never proved it because of their test ban So on the basis of pure performance to me it is the West Indies team of 1979 which comprehensively beat Australia.It is also questionable how South Africa would have fared on the turning sub-continent pitches and whether they would have emulated the victorious post-1991 teams.Another criteria whether South Africa had a skipper who could motivate their players like Clive Lloyd or Ian Chappell.

So the 2 questions are pitting the 1970 South African team against the other titans and the other is the South African team of the 1970's decade against those of that decade.Again man to man South Africa but never proved like West Indies or Australia.

1970's South Africa

Barry Richards
Eddie Barlow
Graeme Pollock (C)
Peter Kirsten
Alan Lamb
Mike Procter
Clive Rice
Lee Ervine (W)
Peter Pollock
Garth Le Roux
Denis Hobson


1970's West Indies
Gordon Greenidge
Roy Fredricks
Viv Richards
Rohan Kanhai
Clive Lloyd(C)
Gary Sobers
Deryk Murray (W)
Andy Roberts
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Colin Croft


1970's Australia

Ian Redpath
Rick Mckosker
Ian Chappell (C)
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Doug Walters
Rodney Marsh (W)
Dennis Lillee
Jeff Thomson
Max Walker
Ashley Mallet

Graeme Smith's south africa would beat them. They beat the so called all time great Australian team as well.

 

[Robert]

You would replace the ageing Peter Pollock with the ATG Vince Van Der Bijl, a Glenn McGrath / Joel Garner clone.

Eddie Barlow was in decline by the mid-70’s: the second opener would be Henry Fotheringham or Neil McKenzie’s dad Kevin.

They were certainly the strongest team until 1978: but by 1978 you could argue that the West Indies might have caught them up.

Concur about ‘Fan Der Bale’, another Garner. Also he has Clive Rice too low. Jimmy Cook would push for a place. And Ken McEwan. Lamby was too young, he was 14 when the seventies began.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Graeme Smith's south africa would beat them. They beat the so called all time great Australian team as well.

No, this is sheer sophistry. The Australian team they beat didn't have Langer, Gilchrist, Warne, nor McGrath.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Please come here [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] @Ab Fan

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Com here [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]

 

[Robert]

Graeme Smith's south africa would beat them. They beat the so called all time great Australian team as well.

That was directly after five tests in India for the Aussies. Their quicks could hardly stand up after that and ran into the Saffers. Their big gun Garth Mckenzie had to retire.

 

[Robert]

Saffers should be:

Barry Richards
Jimmy Cook
Eddie Barlow (capt.)
Graeme Pollock
Peter Kirsten
Clive Rice
Mike Procter
Ray Jennings (w)
Vincent Van Der Bijl
Garth Le Roux
John Traicos

 

[MMHS]

Please come here [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] @Ab Fan

I believe so, at least till 1976. I think, after 1976, Viv was supreme batsman of world, Holding emerged to support Roberts. Within next 2-3 years Garner, Croft & Marshall came. At the same time, by 1976 GPollock was 33, PPollock 35, Denis Lindsey 36 and Eddi Barlow also 35+

By the way, in your team I’ll add few names - Tricos should be in it as off-spinner, but Hobson plays as lone spinner (Leggi), Jimmy Cook should replace Barlow as opener by 1976 and I’ll pick Ken McEwan as WK (Probably good enough to Beas specialist bat) and Kepler Wessels as back-up opener. And, DEFINITELY Van Der Bijl- on his type of track, probably as good if not better than Garner. In fact all the years both played in Counties, every year Vincent Van Der Bijl had better stats - playing home games at Lord’s.

Also, since you picked Lamb who migrated to UK, I believe we should consider AW (Tony) Greig as well - that’s absolute game changer, because Greig will lead this side as well.

My 12

1. BA Richards
2. J Cook
3. P Kirsten
4. G Pollock
5. AJ Lamb
6. K McEwan+
7. *AW Greig
8. C Rice
9. MJ Procter
10. GL Roux
11. VV Bijl
—————-
12. D Hobson
13. R Jackman
14. KC Wessels
15. J Tricos
16. H Fotheringham

Certainly, one of the best ever squads in history of the game and almost unbeatable ODI squad. Can’t say about 1979 against that WIN side, but they would have walked away with 1975 WC, without much sweating.

 

[Junaids]

The 1980’s South Africa team is always interesting too. Obviously we saw the Rebel Tours by England, Australia and the West Indies, but perhaps most fascinating was when the Gatting team toured in 89-90. Pollock, Richards and Procter were now all retired.

Politics thankfully intervened and saw the tour aborted. But we seem to have been looking at:

1 Jimmy Cook
2 Henry Fotheringham
3 Kepler Wessels
4 Peter Kirsten
5 Robin Smith
6 Clive Rice (c)
7 Ray Jennings (wk)
8 Brian MacMillan
9 Fanie De Villiers
10 Richard Snell or Stephen Jeffries
11 Allan Donald

Historical precedent suggests that Graeme Hick would have played for South Africa too.

But one look at the scorecards tells you why this could never be.

The first ODI is recorded as being played at Verwoerdberg, named after the Architect of Apartheid. A place we now call “Centurion”.

Lastly, the opening game in 89-90 was against South African Universities. Led by a youngster called Hansie Cronje. And their tearaway fast bowler was Tertius Bosch, which is an even sadder story.

 

[Ab Fan]

I don't think that SA team would have been able to suppress the Windies team of mid 70s to late 80s.

There is so much of probability involved in this and a great team is not just a team which has some talented names or players with great averages but it's how the team performs as a unit across various conditions is what matters. We can't predict stuffs and conclude anything.

I think that was an excellent team but would have ended a clear second to the legendary Windies team of late 70s and 80s. It would have probably being fighting out with the other team for the top spot in the first half of 70s where again no team stayed at top undisputedly.

Regarding World Cup, they would have probably choked. The best ODI team that SA have produced was from 1999- Donald, Pollock, Klusenar, Kallis, Gibbs and Boucher and when they couldn't turn it, I don't see any SA team would have done it.

Btw, an argument comes up is how do you compare the SA team of 70s to below SA team of 2009-2014.

Smith
A Petersen
Amla
Prince
Kallis
ABDV
Boucher(wkt)
Philander
Tahir
Steyn
Morkel

This team itself has 7-8 players who belong to the elite league itself with a great captain, brilliant keeper and a legendary batsmen who was very capable with the bowl as fifth option and a phenomenal fielder. They defeated a very strong England team in 2012 away from home.

 

[Robert]

The 1980’s South Africa team is always interesting too. Obviously we saw the Rebel Tours by England, Australia and the West Indies, but perhaps most fascinating was when the Gatting team toured in 89-90. Pollock, Richards and Procter were now all retired.

Politics thankfully intervened and saw the tour aborted. But we seem to have been looking at:

1 Jimmy Cook
2 Henry Fotheringham
3 Kepler Wessels
4 Peter Kirsten
5 Robin Smith
6 Clive Rice (c)
7 Ray Jennings (wk)
8 Brian MacMillan
9 Fanie De Villiers
10 Richard Snell or Stephen Jeffries
11 Allan Donald
.

Drop Wessels, push Kirsten up to 3 and get Lamby (five centuries against WI) in.

 

[tyron_woodley]

That was directly after five tests in India for the Aussies. Their quicks could hardly stand up after that and ran into the Saffers. Their big gun Garth Mckenzie had to retire.

ah the excuses. what about india and England. Especially india, they play a lot of games. Every team wants them to tour. Have the busiest schedule.

Australian got wrecked plain and simple. I would back that Graeme Smith's team to beat them at their absolute best.

 

[tyron_woodley]

No, this is sheer sophistry. The Australian team they beat didn't have Langer, Gilchrist, Warne, nor McGrath.

neither did the Aussies in early 2000 vs prime kalis, de villiers, morkel, steyn, their and prime smith.

 

[Junaids]

The Graeme Smith team was nowhere near the quality of the 1970’s team.

As I wrote earlier:

Barry Richards’ official Test career ended in 1970, with an average of 72.60.

But when he resumed in the SuperTests between 1977 and 1979, he averaged 79.25. While Greg Chappell averaged 57 and Viv Richards averaged 56 - identical to their then Test records.

Mike Procter was the same - his Test bowling average up to 1970 was 15, and his SuperTest average between 1977 and 1979 was 17.

So we know just how great these players were - as they proved in County Cricket where they were a class above their Australian and West Indian peers.

 

[tyron_woodley]

The Graeme Smith team was nowhere near the quality of the 1970’s team.

As I wrote earlier:

Barry Richards’ official Test career ended in 1970, with an average of 72.60.

But when he resumed in the SuperTests between 1977 and 1979, he averaged 79.25. While Greg Chappell averaged 57 and Viv Richards averaged 56 - identical to their then Test records.

Mike Procter was the same - his Test bowling average up to 1970 was 15, and his SuperTest average between 1977 and 1979 was 17.

So we know just how great these players were - as they proved in County Cricket where they were a class above their Australian and West Indian peers.

yea only cause frame Smith's team dint have to focus purely on tests. they were more diverse in the sense as they had to focus on multiple formats. Graeme Smith's team would beat them had rhey focused entirely on test cricket in like in the past.
Graeme Smith's saffers are one of the best teams do all time.

I don't care about their averages in the past. I am not denying they aren't great. It's just a different era with massive rule differences. It's not comparable. But realistically I am certain if Graeme Smith's team played more test cricket matches and focused purely on test cricket instead of being all rounders in multiple formats which they clearly were as saffers were exceptional in odi as well then I have No doubts they would beat these all time great teams of the past.

 

[tyron_woodley]

The Graeme Smith team was nowhere near the quality of the 1970’s team.

As I wrote earlier:

Barry Richards’ official Test career ended in 1970, with an average of 72.60.

But when he resumed in the SuperTests between 1977 and 1979, he averaged 79.25. While Greg Chappell averaged 57 and Viv Richards averaged 56 - identical to their then Test records.

Mike Procter was the same - his Test bowling average up to 1970 was 15, and his SuperTest average between 1977 and 1979 was 17.

So we know just how great these players were - as they proved in County Cricket where they were a class above their Australian and West Indian peers.

No matter what way you spin it, county is not international cricket. They don't go overseas and prove their record. Hell they dint even prove much in south africa due to the ban. It's all conjecture.

 

[Junaids]

No matter what way you spin it, county is not international cricket. They don't go overseas and prove their record. Hell they dint even prove much in south africa due to the ban. It's all conjecture.

County cricket has changed.

In the 1970’s it was a higher form of cricket than most Test cricket. Teams were like IPL teams - each had around 4 global superstars - and there was a range of wickets varying from greentops (Notts) to dusty turners (Northants) to bouncy lifters (Sussex).

Just watch the famous footage on YouTube of Mike Procter taking 6-13 against Hampshire. The Hants openers were Barry Richards and Gordon Greenidge - that’s obviously the GOAT opening partnership!

 

[JaDed]

Mayank Aggrawal s career if ended today would have an average of 67 with a decisive series win In Aus..

Indian Management ended Karun Nair’s career in-spite of him averaging 62.. just putting numbers out there so people know..

 

[Junaids]

Mayank Aggrawal s career if ended today would have an average of 67 with a decisive series win In Aus..

Indian Management ended Karun Nair’s career in-spite of him averaging 62.. just putting numbers out there so people know..

Brilliant post.

It’s why it was so conclusive that after SEVEN YEARS of exile, Richards and Procter produced SuperTest statistics almost identical to their Test ones.

 

[JaDed]

Brilliant post.

It’s why it was so conclusive that after SEVEN YEARS of exile, Richards and Procter produced SuperTest statistics almost identical to their Test ones.

Not gonna take 2 years as a proof of some mighty playing skill.. better than the rest of the cricket players around the world.

 

[Robert]

ah the excuses. what about india and England. Especially india, they play a lot of games. Every team wants them to tour. Have the busiest schedule.

Australian got wrecked plain and simple. I would back that Graeme Smith's team to beat them at their absolute best.

England plays more tests than anyone. Nobody schedules five overseas tests immediately after five more these days.

I don’t think Smith’s team was better. I would say about the same.

 

[tyron_woodley]

England plays more tests than anyone. Nobody schedules five overseas tests immediately after five more these days.

I don’t think Smith’s team was better. I would say about the same.

I think Smith's team is better in every facet of the game comfortably.

India plays way more cricket than England overall.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yeah and Mark Ramprakash is better than sachin tendulkar.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Yeah and Mark Ramprakash is better than sachin tendulkar.

steyn morkel abbott
kalis
smith
amla
Boucher
abd
.That's a GOAT level team

 

[Robert]

I think Smith's team is better in every facet of the game comfortably.

India plays way more cricket than England overall.

They don’t play ten tests on two continents without a break inbetween.

I think a combined 1970 / 2012 side would be

Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock G
Rice (c)
ABDV (w)
Proctor
Van Der Bijl
Le Roux or Phillander
Steyn
Traicos

 

[tyron_woodley]

They don’t play ten tests on two continents without a break inbetween.

I think a combined 1970 / 2012 side would be

Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock G
Rice (c)
ABDV (w)
Proctor
Van Der Bijl
Le Roux or Phillander
Steyn
Traicos

? I was talking about Aussies of 2000.

 

[Robert]

? I was talking about Aussies of 2000.

I replied to your post #3.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I replied to your post #3.

I wouldn't compare them 2. different rules. totally different era. best from both would be good anywhere but Smith's team was something truly special at their best. At their absolute peak I would back them to beat the 70s saffers under modern rules. Pre restrictions probably 70s team could win.

 

[Buffet]

Comfortably in the first half of 70s. In the second half, they would have gone neck to neck with WI.

 

[Robert]

Comfortably in the first half of 70s. In the second half, they would have gone neck to neck with WI.

I agree with this.