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Was the Muslim rule over the Indian subcontinent, the best thing ever to occur to this region?

The Muslim rule over the Indian subcontinent was the best thing ever to occur for the region

  • Total voters
    28
Rajdeep said:
What is the difference between Muslim invaders and Israel? Both are doing same. West Bank has become one of the most developed places in Israel rule. However we choose to glorify Islamic invasion saying it was economically good for Indian sub continent but at the same time condemn Israel. If only hypocrisy has a face few would be seeing theirs when staring at mirror.
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According to Pakistan, Kashmir is under illegal Indian occupation. Replace Israel with India, your statement still remains true. India has spent millions for development in Kashmir.
 
Before we answer this question, we need to ask ourselves... What is the biggest effect and result of Islamic rule on the Indian subcontinent?

The monuments?

Architecture?

The languages?

Innovations?


No. It's Islam, the religion itself. It's the 600 million or more adherents of it that are currently living in this religion.

220 Million of them are Pakistanis, whose nation has to rely regularly on IMF bailouts to even survive and has become a banana republic with comical socioeconomic conditions.

180 Million are Bangladeshis, whose nation has a multidimensional poverty of more than a staggering 40%.

200 Million are the Indian Muslims, who are the the worst performing religious group in the country in each and every socioeconomic parameter than even the Dalits.


In conclusion... if you're a newly born baby in a South Asian Muslim household, the probability of you ending up living a low quality life is much much higher than if you were to be born in a non-Muslim household.


And therein lies the uncomfortable answer. The above lines might be depressing for some but they are nothing but cold hard true facts.
 
daytrader said:
Akbar, Babar, Humayun are all fairly common Muslim names. Yea no one names their kid Shah Jehan anymore but that's understandable
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There is one Aurangzeb in Pakistan , he was recently in news…. He may be descendant of Aurangazeb (Moghul)
 
daytrader said:
Yes and you'll probably claim that you lived through it.

India was weak, Muslims made it into a World renowned empire. If it wasn't the Mughals, it would've been another Muslim dynasty that would've conquered India
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I am saying muslim rule was like dark age. Didn't mention just Mughals.
 
Mesozoic said:
200 Million are the Indian Muslims, who are the the worst performing religious group in the country in each and every socioeconomic parameter than even the Dalits.


In conclusion... if you're a newly born baby in a South Asian Muslim household, the probability of you ending up living a low quality life is much much higher than if you were to be born in a non-Muslim household.
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Well it might be true in India because there's a resurgence of hinduvta and hence Muslim marginalization.

The quality of life in Pakistan though is even better than some Western nations
 
sweep_shot said:
Get your facts right first. BD's poverty level is not 40%. It is around 20% (source: https://www.adb.org/where-we-work/b..., 20.5% of the,died before their 5th birthday.).

Don't act like there is no poverty in India. LOL.
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Lol as expected...got emotional without reading it clearly.

I said 'Multidimensional poverty'. I'm pretty sure you have zero idea about it , just like on so many different topics..

www.mppn.org

Multidimensional Poverty in the Voluntary National Reviews | MPPN

Multidimensional Poverty in the Voluntary National Reviews
www.mppn.org www.mppn.org

Bangladesh has constructed Multidimensional Poverty Index (MPI) to measure the deprivation of the population in three dimensions, viz. health, education, and living standard. Information from Table 1.5 reveals that the incidence of multidimensional poverty in Bangladesh is 37.5 per cent.
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And noone said there isn't any poverty in India lol. Stop being so defensive.
 
Rajdeep said:
Shamelessness is supporting muslim invaders but at the same time condemning Israel for doing the same.
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The two are not equivalent. India has a lot to thank Mughals for.

Israel is genocidal state.

If you can't see the difference then I have to ask you, what is your percentile in your board exams?
 
daytrader said:
Well it might be true in India because there's a resurgence of hinduvta and hence Muslim marginalization.

The quality of life in Pakistan though is even better than some Western nations
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Brother you are right. Muslims are getting marginalized in India and quality of life in Pakistan is better than western world. All point taken.

Can you take those marginalized muslims of India or atleast encourage them to move to Pakiatan?
 
Rajdeep said:
Brother you are right. Muslims are getting marginalized in India and quality of life in Pakistan is better than western world. All point taken.

Can you take those marginalized muslims of India or atleast encourage them to move to Pakiatan?
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Believe me more muslim refugees in Canada than ever before. You guys are doing a good job kicking them out, no need for our intervention
 
daytrader said:
The two are not equivalent. India has a lot to thank Mughals for.

Israel is genocidal state.

If you can't see the difference then I have to ask you, what is your percentile in your board exams?
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Let me put it this way, India has absolutely nothing to thank Mughals for. They were invaders, tryants, bigots and looters who invaded land, converted millions and make an entire country marginalized. This is the same thing that Israel is doing now or something you accuse Indians doing in Kashmir.

You dont need good percentage marks to see the hypicrisy here. Even a blind nun can see it.
 
Rajdeep said:
Shamelessness is supporting muslim invaders but at the same time condemning Israel for doing the same.
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During those days, conquests were common. Many conquests happened throughout the world (including Europe). If you compare world orders from middle ages to current period, that's illogical.

Please learn how Israel started (starting from Balfour declaration). They pretty much took over lands over native Palestinians; not just Muslims but also non-Muslim Palestinians. Even to this day, they are forcefully taking over lands in West Bank (illegal settlements).
 
daytrader said:
Believe me more muslim refugees in Canada than ever before. You guys are doing a good job kicking them out, no need for our intervention
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Aree yaar...why Canada? I thought Pakistan is better than many western world. Take them..embrace them. After all their heart lies in Pakistan. Why to go all the way to Canada as a refugee?
 
Rajdeep said:
Let me put it this way, India has absolutely nothing to thank Mughals for. They were invaders, tryants, bigots and looters who invaded land, converted millions and make an entire country marginalized. This is the same thing that Israel is doing now or something you accuse Indians doing in Kashmir.

You dont need good percentage marks to see the hypicrisy here. Even a blind nun can see it.
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They put you on the map and made India the 'Golden Sparrow'. Why do you think a nation like Britain was so interested in controlling India.

Again the looting argument doesn't make sense because where did they take the loot to? They spent it all on India.

A good education helps identify what is hypocrisy. You clearly have no idea
 
Rajdeep said:
Aree yaar...why Canada? I thought Pakistan is better than many western world. Take them..embrace them. After all their heart lies in Pakistan. Why to go all the way to Canada as a refugee?
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Does it? I don't hear many Indian Muslims supporting Pakistan. I know many and they usually cheer for India in cricket. The irony is it's a one way lpve street. Most of those Muslims look just like their Hindu counter parts
 
daytrader said:
Again the looting argument doesn't make sense because where did they take the loot to? They spent it all on India
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Lmao..

So a corrupt poltician who takes a chunk out of state treasure and public taxes is not a looter just because he spent it all in his own country. 🤣


Some absolute room temperature IQ stuff right there.
 
sweep_shot said:
During those days, conquests were common. Many conquests happened throughout the world (including Europe).

Please learn how Israel started (starting from Balfour declaration). They pretty much took over lands over native Palestinians (not just Muslims but also non-Muslim Palestinians). Even to this day, they are forcefully taking over lands in West Bank (illegal settlements).
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Ah so that old excuse of 'those days'. Just bcoz conquests were common on those days we should not call them invaders? Also, why are we glorifying them today?

I am thoroughly aware of Israel's history and Mughals/Islamic rulers were 10 times worst. Atleast in present day lots of aids going into Gaza, protests against genocide happening world wide etc. There were no protests when Alauddin Khilji or Taimur raping and killing millions of people.

Anyway glorify Islamist tyrants of the past should be ashamed of themselves.
 
Mesozoic said:
Lmao..

So a corrupt poltician who takes a chunk out of state treasure and public taxes is not a looter just because he spent it all in his own country. 🤣


Some absolute room temperature IQ stuff right there.
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A politician is different from a Monarch. They were emperors and kings and your ancestors belonged to them to do as they pleased. Basic IQ
 
daytrader said:
They put you on the map and made India the 'Golden Sparrow'. Why do you think a nation like Britain was so interested in controlling India.

Again the looting argument doesn't make sense because where did they take the loot to? They spent it all on India.

A good education helps identify what is hypocrisy. You clearly have no idea
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Similarly Israel is spending all on the land they are living. They have made the West Bank one of the developed place in middle east. However the point is that land doesn't belong to Israel just like India didnt belong to Mughals. Why you hung into my education? LOL..you don't need to be educated to see the hypocrisy. Brainwashed people can't see it though.
 
daytrader said:
If it's so irrelevant why you taking the time to respond. Did I hit a nerve?

I think you can benefit from those picture games of spot the difference. You know where two pictures look alike but they're not the same...
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daytrader said:
A politician is different from a Monarch. They were emperors and kings and your ancestors belonged to them to do as they pleased. Basic IQ
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I've seen better arguments than these on YouTube comment sections.

Go on and embarass yourselves further mate.
 
Rajdeep said:
Aree yaar...why Canada? I thought Pakistan is better than many western world. Take them..embrace them. After all their heart lies in Pakistan. Why to go all the way to Canada as a refugee?
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This is a great point from an Indian who extolls the rise of Modi's India while holed up in a British city dominated by Pakistanis. :Dah
 
Mesozoic said:
I've seen better arguments than these on YouTube comment sections.

Go on and embarass yourselves further mate.
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Shows your level when you have no points. Stick to your youtube education. Come back when you can argue on your own rather than looking up points and repeating the same rhetoric as your compatriots
 
sweep_shot said:
I don't come here and insult Pakistan. I respect Pakistan. I also have a commonality with many Pakistanis and that is religion of Islam.

You and many of your fellow Indians come here and insult Pakistan. That's the difference.

If I don't like a country, I wouldn't visit that country's site and insult them. That's a moronic behavior.
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I can't speak for others but I never insult Pakistan and if I ever do moderators are there to guard it. However, I have the right to have an opinion and If it happens to be contrary to yours you can't call it insulting. Let me know which specific post you found insulting to Pakistan..so that we can dissect it further.
 
daytrader said:
Shows your level when you have no points. Stick to your youtube education. Come back when you can argue on your own rather than looking up points and repeating the same rhetoric as your compatriots
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Looks like post #82 has hit a nerve as was expected.

To my credit , I did say those facts would be depressing for "some" though. :)
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
This is a great point from an Indian who extolls the rise of Modi's India while holed up in a British city dominated by Pakistanis. :Dah
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No idea what you just said apart from a silly emoji and modi. Please say it clearly in proper english so that I can understand. Thank you
 
Mesozoic said:
Looks like post #82 has hit a nerve as was expected.

To my credit , I did say those facts would be depressing for "some" though. :)
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Talk about hitting a nerve, this thread had barely been posted yesterday, I come back today and it is over 100 replies. There are surely some nerves getting tingled and tangled by the subject of Mughal rule in India. :unsure:
 
Another thing I want to mention is Mughal and Israel don't have the same equivalence.

Israel literally kicked out/displaced Palestinians from their lands. They are still doing it illegally in West Bank (illegal settlements which violate international laws).

Mughals simply ruled. They didn't kick Indians out of Indian lands. Palestinians lost most of their lands.

Also, time period matters. During those days, conquests were quite common. Many European empires used to conquer each other. It was like that all over the world.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Talk about hitting a nerve, this thread had barely been posted yesterday, I come back today and it is over 100 replies. There are surely some nerves getting tingled and tangled by the subject of Mughal rule in India. :unsure:
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No tingling or tangling here mate. Just stated some cold facts and people here ended up getting triggered and kept on quoting us and begging us to praise the invaders from the 12th century like they do. 🤣
 
Mesozoic said:
If you honestly think those aren't facts , you would have tried to refute them with proper sources. But you didn't...did you?

Because deep down you too know that there's nothing but cold truth behind those statements.
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What facts? You made some general observations on neighbouring countries. Me and another poster refuted your claims because you don't actually know what quality of life people live there. I didn't dispute your observation of Indian Muslims as I don't live there, but gave you a perfectly reasonable explanation as to their marginalization. You obviously won't accept that because it's not part of your agenda
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Talk about hitting a nerve, this thread had barely been posted yesterday, I come back today and it is over 100 replies. There are surely some nerves getting tingled and tangled by the subject of Mughal rule in India. :unsure:
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Honestly all I did is remind them of how proud they used to be of their Mughal heritage. Then they came at me in droves 🤣
 
sweep_shot said:
Another thing I want to mention is Mughal and Israel don't have the same equivalence.

Israel literally kicked out/displaced Palestinians from their lands. They are still doing it illegally in West Bank (illegal settlements which violate international laws).

Mughals simply ruled. They didn't kick Indians out of Indian lands. Palestinians lost most of their lands.

Also, time period matters. During those days, conquests were quite common. Many European empires used to conquer each other. It was like that all over the world.
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Bro they can't spot the difference. Even the 85 percentilers
 
daytrader said:
Me and another poster refuted your claims because you don't actually know what quality of life people live there.
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Ahh yes "refuted" .. :yk


You "refuted" by claiming out of thin air that Pakistan is a better place to live in than the West (how frog in a well one have to be to even claim that lmao)

And the other guy "refuted" by displaying his ignorance of a simple economic concept called multi dimensional poverty.

Absolute top tier rebuttals lol.
 
sweep_shot said:
Another thing I want to mention is Mughal and Israel don't have the same equivalence.

Israel literally kicked out/displaced Palestinians from their lands. They are still doing it illegally in West Bank (illegal settlements which violate international laws).

Mughals simply ruled. They didn't kick Indians out of Indian lands. Palestinians lost most of their lands.

Also, time period matters. During those days, conquests were quite common. Many European empires used to conquer each other. It was like that all over the world.
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Mughals simply ruled? LOL.

They mass converted millions of people, destroyed their temples and forced their way in. Also, it is not about Mughals but other Islamic invaders/Delhi Sultanate's too. Read about the violence of Ghazni, Taimur and Khilji. The city of Delhi was red with blood when Khilji killed more than 30 thousand people in 2 days.

You are still supporting them bcoz they happen to be from the same religion as yours and quick to criticize Israel for doing the same with 10 times the lesser extent.

Agree time period matters and that is why you will never see anyone glorifying British Raj or Black slaves. However it is shocking to see you guys are applauding the Islamic rulers of yesteryears in 2024 while protesting against Israel in the streets of London every saturday.

Kya hypocrisy hai...ufff.
 
sweep_shot said:
Another thing I want to mention is Mughal and Israel don't have the same equivalence.

Israel literally kicked out/displaced Palestinians from their lands. They are still doing it illegally in West Bank (illegal settlements which violate international laws).

Mughals simply ruled. They didn't kick Indians out of Indian lands. Palestinians lost most of their lands.

Also, time period matters. During those days, conquests were quite common. Many European empires used to conquer each other. It was like that all over the world.
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Yes, I don't really understand how we have ended up talking about Israel in this thread. I haven't had time to read through all replies, but our Indian posters do seem to love referencing Israel for some reason. :unsure:
 
Itachi said:
Define one.

There might be peaceful political and social environment but a revolution waiting to happen.

A revolution occuring for upliftment towards modern infrastructure yet unstable social and political environment due to the transition.

Which one would yield future stability?

This is the issue with arguments like this. You can not hold one particular aspect without context.

Innoivation drives society. Not the other way. How it can not not be main criteria?
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No innovation alone can't be a main criteria. How come it alone could answer the need of the masses. A society plagued with injustice but advance in innovation does not stand anywhere.

If we go by that criteria then the terrorist and apartheid states like US and Israel stand out among others but in actual thats not the case.

For your convenience, make the justice in a society the supreme criterion for people welfare.
 
Another thing, which Indian poster here has a problem with Pakistanis and Bangladeshis glorifying those invaders in their respective countries? I certainly don't. Heck, Pakistan has named almost all of their nukes and missiles after those invaders. I'm the last person bothered, it's none of our business.

But if those Pakistanis and Bangladeshis expect us Indians to follow suit, it's not going to happen. No country glorifies looting and tyrannical invaders from the past who invaded their country. We are no exception. For us they were subhuman, and are not worth remembering in positive light at all.
 
Mesozoic said:
Ahh yes "refuted" .. :yk


You "refuted" by claiming out of thin air that Pakistan is a better place to live in than the West (how frog in a well one have to be to even claim that lmao)

And the other guy "refuted" by displaying his ignorance of a simple economic concept called multi dimensional poverty.

Absolute top tier rebuttals lol.
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Here's a simple stat.

60% of India's population lives under the World Bank Poverty line

Whereas it's 24% for Pakistan.

Now go to YouTube and find an argument to refute this
 
Rajdeep said:
Mughals simply ruled? LOL.

They mass converted millions of people, destroyed their temples and forced their way in. Also, it is not about Mughals but other Islamic invaders/Delhi Sultanate's too. Read about the violence of Ghazni, Taimur and Khilji. The city of Delhi was red with blood when Khilji killed more than 30 thousand people in 2 days.

You are still supporting them bcoz they happen to be from the same religion as yours and quick to criticize Israel for doing the same with 10 times the lesser extent.

Agree time period matters and that is why you will never see anyone glorifying British Raj or Black slaves. However it is shocking to see you guys are applauding the Islamic rulers of yesteryears in 2024 while protesting against Israel in the streets of London every saturday.

Kya hypocrisy hai...ufff.
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Have you read about what Nadir Shah did?
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Yes, I don't really understand how we have ended up talking about Israel in this thread. I haven't had time to read through all replies, but our Indian posters do seem to love referencing Israel for some reason. :unsure:
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That is because both Islamic rulers of India and Israel are invaders who have taken over others land and did some developement work in return. However, the hypocrisy is been highlighted here of those people who condemns Israel but are gloryfying Islamic tyrants at the same time for doing the same with 10 times more intensity. I brought the topic of Israel first bcoz I am clearly aware which string to pull to hit the nerve...LOL
 
Hitman said:
Another thing, which Indian poster here has a problem with Pakistanis and Bangladeshis glorifying those invaders in their respective countries? I certainly don't. Heck, Pakistan has named almost all of their nukes and missiles after those invaders. I'm the last person bothered, it's none of our business.

But if those Pakistanis and Bangladeshis expect us Indians to follow suit, it's not going to happen. No country glorifies looting and tyrannical invaders from the past who invaded their country. We are no exception. For us they were subhuman, and are not worth remembering in positive light at all.
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But you have in the past glorified them. Case in point is your bollywood movies that I pointed out earlier.

What changed?
 
Rajdeep said:
That is because both Islamic rulers of India and Israel are invaders who have taken over others land and did some developement work in return. However, the hypocrisy is been highlighted here of those people who condemns Israel are gloryfying Islamic tyrants for doing the same with 10 times more intensity. I brought the topic of Israel first bcoz I clearly aware which string to pull to hit the nerve.
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Again, Israel literally kicked out Palestinians from their lands. Look up "naqba". Palestinians were forced out of their lands.

Mughals didn't do that. Indian land is still with India. If Indian land was with Central Asians now, you would have a point (but, that's not the case).

Not the same equivalence. Also, this is not an Israel thread.
 
daytrader said:
Here's a simple stat.

60% of India's population lives under the World Bank Poverty line

Whereas it's 24% for Pakistan.

Now go to YouTube and find an argument to refute this
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In order to refute this, you have to first provide an authentic link proving the validity of your claim. I too can make a claim that 70% of Pakistanis are involved in terrorism with no sources to back my claim.
 
Rajdeep said:
I brought the topic of Israel first bcoz I clearly aware which string to pull to hit the nerve.
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Exactly, that is your agenda. Your argument is agenda driven not based on logic. Again you didn't play spot the difference and thought no one will point out the difference to you
 
Itachi said:
Define one.

There might be peaceful political and social environment but a revolution waiting to happen.

A revolution occuring for upliftment towards modern infrastructure yet unstable social and political environment due to the transition.

Which one would yield future stability?

This is the issue with arguments like this. You can not hold one particular aspect without context.

Innoivation drives society. Not the other way. How it can not not be main criteria?
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Although I still do think innovation is a good thing but not the main criterion but for your reference have extracted an excerpt from following source:

"According to Angus Maddison, between the years 1000 and 1500, India's GDP, of which the sultanates represented a significant part, grew by nearly 80%, to $60.5 billion; in comparison, there was lower than the GDP growth in India during the prior 1,000 years.[16] but According to Maddison's estimates, India's population also grew by nearly 50% in the same time period.[17] The Delhi Sultanate period coincided with a greater use of mechanical technology in the Indian subcontinent. While India previously already had sophisticated agriculture, food crops, textiles, medicine, minerals, and metals, it was not as sophisticated as the Islamic world or China in terms of mechanical technology"

en.m.wikipedia.org

Muslim period in the Indian subcontinent - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Hitman said:
In order to refute this, you have to first provide an authentic link proving the validity of your claim. I too can make a claim that 70% of Pakistanis are involved in terrorism with no sources to back my claim.
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It's homework for the youtuber, I'm sure he can find. But if you want to help him, you're more than welcome
 
daytrader said:
It's homework for the youtuber, I'm sure he can find. But if you want to help him, you're more than welcome
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Errr .... my claim was a fact as well. It's homework for the youtuber, I'm sure he can find. But if you want to help him, you're more than welcome
 
Hitman said:
In order to refute this, you have to first provide an authentic link proving the validity of your claim. I too can make a claim that 70% of Pakistanis are involved in terrorism with no sources to back my claim.
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These lot desperately wanted us to praise those tyrants from the 12th century and are burping out one emotional statements after another when we showed them the mirror. :ROFLMAO:

Sad and funny at the same time.
 
Mesozoic said:
These lot desperately wanted us to praise those tyrants from the 12th century and are burping out one emotional statements after another when we showed them the mirror. :ROFLMAO:

Sad and funny at the same time.
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Like I said, they are free to do so in their country. We Indians have our own choice.
 
sweep_shot said:
Again, Israel literally kicked out Palestinians from their lands. Look up "naqba". Palestinians were forced out of their lands.

Mughals didn't do that. Indian land is still with India. If Indian land was with Central Asians now, you would have a point (but, that's not the case).

Not the same equivalence. Also, this is not an Israel thread.
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Trying to act ignorant now, are we?

Mughals and other Islamic rulers were barbaric invaders who took the land by force, converted millions of people, destroyed their places of worship. I just gave an example of Alauddin Khilji when he painted the streets of Delhi red with bloods. Go and read what Taimur used to do with women and how many jumped into open fire to save their dignity.

However, you will still glorify them because they were muslims and aparently they created some monuments etc. Let me put it this way, if ISIS was existed 500 years ago, some of you would glorify them too. Infact Islamic Invaders back in the day were 500 times more barbaric than ISIS terrorists.
 
Rajdeep said:
Trying to act ignorant now, are we?

Mughals and other Islamic rulers were barbaric invaders who took the land by force, converted millions of people, destroyed their places of worship. I just gave an example of Alauddin Khilji when he painted the streets of Delhi red with bloods. Go and read what Taimur used to do with women and how many jumped into open fire to save their dignity.

However, you will still glorify them because they were muslims and aparently they created some monuments etc. Let me put it this way, if ISIS was existed 500 years ago, some of you would glorify them too. Infact Islamic Invaders back in the day were 500 times more barbaric than ISIS terrorists.
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You are the one who is acting ignorant by thinking Mughal and Israel did the same thing.

Israel = Kicked out Palestinians from their homes in modern period.
Mughals = Ruled India (didn't kick out Indians from their homes) during middle ages.

If you can't understand this, no point in debating.

By your definition, probably 90% empires would be invaders during middle ages (they all conquered each other). Conquests were common then.
 
Rajdeep said:
Trying to act ignorant now, are we?

Mughals and other Islamic rulers were barbaric invaders who took the land by force, converted millions of people, destroyed their places of worship. I just gave an example of Alauddin Khilji when he painted the streets of Delhi red with bloods. Go and read what Taimur used to do with women and how many jumped into open fire to save their dignity.

However, you will still glorify them because they were muslims and aparently they created some monuments etc. Let me put it this way, if ISIS was existed 500 years ago, some of you would glorify them too. Infact Islamic Invaders back in the day were 500 times more barbaric than ISIS terrorists.
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Have you read Akbar's seige of Chittorgarh? Abul Fazl himself mentioned about what happened and what Akbar ordered after his mission was accomplished. Here's from Wikipedia -

"After capturing the fort on 23 February 1568, Akbar ordered a general massacre of Chittor's population in which 30,000 Hindu civilians inside the fort who were largely non-combatants were slaughtered. After the mass slaughter, many women and children were enslaved followed by desecration of many Hindu and Jain temples on Akbar's order."

Anyone who wants authenticity can read Akbarnama written by Akbar's own courtyard Abul Fazal.

Has Israel done even remotely close to anything as barbaric as this?
 
Muslims of the subcontinent are free to praise and glorify the Islamic invaders of the past. No one's going to denigrate them if they do that.

But just don't expect the non-Muslims too to sing the same tune. You'll end up getting disappointed when we show the reality which will lead to logic-less emotional outbursts like we saw on this thread.
 
sweep_shot said:
You are the one who is acting ignorant by thinking Mughal and Israel did the same thing.

Israel = Kicked out Palestinians from their homes in modern period.
Mughals = Ruled India (didn't kick out Indians from their homes) during middle ages.

If you can't understand this, no point in debating.

By your definition, probably 90% empires would be invaders during middle ages (they all conquered each other). Conquests were common then.
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They finally found the strength to fight back an enemy that no longer exists, after 400 years. In another 200 years they'll take it out on Britain
 
Mesozoic said:
These lot desperately wanted us to praise those tyrants from the 12th century and are burping out one emotional statements after another when we showed them the mirror. :ROFLMAO:

Sad and funny at the same time.
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But they will never give that facts as per the post #82.

Jijiya Tax, Taxing non muslims was a wonderful thing to take care of the people they loved.They expect such lunatics to be praised .
 
Hitman said:
Have you read Akbar's seige of Chittorgarh? Abul Fazl himself mentioned about what happened and what Akbar ordered after his mission was accomplished. Here's from Wikipedia -

"After capturing the fort on 23 February 1568, Akbar ordered a general massacre of Chittor's population in which 30,000 Hindu civilians inside the fort who were largely non-combatants were slaughtered. After the mass slaughter, many women and children were enslaved followed by desecration of many Hindu and Jain temples on Akbar's order."

Anyone who wants authenticity can read Akbarnama written by Akbar's own courtyard Abul Fazal.

Has Israel done even remotely close to anything as barbaric as this?
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"But but they didn't kick out Indians from their lands so they weren't barbaric.

Only butchered them, converted them (us) by force, destroyed their places of worship and brutally taxed them for their religion. Apart from that , they were saints sent by God.. "


As I said earlier, room temperature IQ stuff.
 
Mesozoic said:
"But but they didn't kick out Indians from their lands so they weren't barbaric.

Only butchered them, converted them (us) by force, destroyed their places of worship and brutally taxed them for their religion. Apart from that , they were saints sent by God.. "


As I said earlier, room temperature IQ stuff.
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And this is the Akbar whom seculars honoured with the title 'Great'.
 
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daytrader said:
Exactly, that is your agenda. Your argument is agenda driven not based on logic. Again you didn't play spot the difference and thought no one will point out the difference to you
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Highlighting the hypocrisy may sound an agenda to you but that is how discussions happen. If you can't praise historical wrongs just bcoz they are of the same faith as yours but at the same time will condemn Israel. It did hit the nerve of you, @sweep_shot and @Cpt. Rishwat though. The expectation of this thread creator was everyone will come here and praise Islamic invaders just bcoz they build some monuments etc but clearly that plan failed spectacularly when I brought in Israel into the debate. There is a proverb in hindi - "Dhan aur Dharti bat kar rahega...but apna apna chor ke". It is apt for this discussion.
 
Hitman said:
And this is the Akbar whom seculars honoured with the title 'Great'.
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Well the bar was set so low by the other tyrants that Akbar (who himself was a tyrant but relatively less degree) was made to look like a monk.
 
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sweep_shot said:
You are the one who is acting ignorant by thinking Mughal and Israel did the same thing.

Israel = Kicked out Palestinians from their homes in modern period.
Mughals = Ruled India (didn't kick out Indians from their homes) during middle ages.

If you can't understand this, no point in debating.

By your definition, probably 90% empires would be invaders during middle ages (they all conquered each other). Conquests were common then.
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How many times I have tell you that I agree conquests were common then. But why are we praising them now? There is documented facts that Islamic invaders were Barbaric who forced their way in, raped and plundered millions, destroyed temple etc. Your arguement is, conquests were common then. Agreed. But why are we glorifying them now? We should be condemning them equivocally unless a person is A grade hypocrite which I know you aren't. So try again probably.
 
Nadir shah looted 70 crores

Bhuktiyar khilji massacred Buddhists,destroyed nalanda unversity(one of the oldest in the world)
Allauddin khilji destroyed Halebedu temples
Unesco Heritage Hampi destroyed by Deccan sultanates

Am not even starting somnath temple,kasi,Mathoura,ayaodhya etc.

So at the end irrespective of the religion,who ever did it for the religion were nothing but jingoistic and lunatic invaders
 
Why were the intellectual achievements during the Muslim rule era so low compared to before ? No one is answering that.
 
Itachi said:
It has been answered. Some has stated that innovation or intellectual achievements are not important.

as simple as that.
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What's funny Is that Kerala school of mathematics build upon Arab Islamic mathematics and their connection was through trade. But the Islamic rulers didn't felicitate such things.
 
anikrc1 said:
What's funny Is that Kerala school of mathematics build upon Arab Islamic mathematics and their connection was through trade. But the Islamic rulers didn't felicitate such things.
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With years of negligence in science and education, entire subcontinent was ripe for British to loot .As historians suggested people did not even bothered who the ruler is ( either mughal /british) after years of negligence .Darylmpre explained in last mughal book that delhi was so anarchic that commoners must have felt relief after British invasion.
 
sweep_shot said:
During those days, conquests were common. Many conquests happened throughout the world (including Europe). If you compare world orders from middle ages to current period, that's illogical.

Please learn how Israel started (starting from Balfour declaration). They pretty much took over lands over native Palestinians; not just Muslims but also non-Muslim Palestinians. Even to this day, they are forcefully taking over lands in West Bank (illegal settlements).
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Did you get time to read the Baburnama? You said you will read it.
 
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