Wasim Akram v Imran Khan - The Debate Continues

[siddharth]

^that's why it'd be interesting to get some viewpoints of batsmen who had faced them both (has Sachin faced both?)

There is a statement from Imran khan about Kris Srikanth '' Where I can bowl to this guy ''. NO I am not making this up,it was all over the media and sportstar at that time.Simply Imran was taken apart by Srikanth.Then how his career ended we all know.

Another guy is Allan Border,he always rated Wasim so high.

 

[Savak]

In the 1996 home series against NZ Wasim didn't play due to shoulder injury and wants to play C&U ODI series.Waqar played one test in the absence of Wasim and then he didn't play the second test.He could have used that opportunity in the absence of Wasim.

Again in 1998 Series against Australia.Aaamir Sohail was the captain,Wasim's rival,Waqar didn't play that series sighting injury (or perhaps the Austraila ).At the same time he was dropped from county Derbyshire due to lack of form.After the India series 1999 he ended up with an average of 72.In Chennai Test he bowled well,but in Delhi he was way too ordinary.And Wasim dropped him for the calcutta test for Shoaib.

Well it is easy to blame others for the underachievment,the time Wasim really mistreated Waqar was in World cup 1999 and the series after 1999,Aus series.That was obvious.He did it with grudge.

I disagree i dont think Wasim mistreated Waqar at all in the 1999 WC. Shoaib was in scintilating form in that WC, the team combination was perfect with the likes of Wasim, Akhtar, Mahmood, Razzaq and Saqlain doing the bowling. Waqar was out of form prior to the world cup and given Akhtar's awesome form, it just wasnt possible to accomodate Waqar.

Wasim cannot be blamed for dropping Waqar, Wasim did what was best for the team in selecting Shoaib. Waqar might feel hard done by but if Waqar took a long hard objective look at his own bowling form at the time and Akhtar's form at that time, he just will be forced to agree that there was no room for him in the playing 11. The only way Waqar could have found a spot in the team was an injury to either Akhtar, Mahmood, Razzaq or by displaying awesome form on the sidelines and sorry that didnt happen.

Even in the 1999 Australia series, i really cannot see why Wasim is being blamed for mistreating Waqar. Waqar only bowled well in that one spell at Hobart where he managed to get the old Waqar style reverse swing going and where he was finally bowling at 140-144 km/hr after operating for the most part at 132-136 km/hr. In reality Waqar was a shadow of his former self and without his pace, his lethality with the old ball was gone.

Its easy to blame Akram for giving Waqar only 8 overs in the 2nd innings but Waqar bowled his first spell with the new ball, he bowled a short 2nd spell where he twisted his ankle and then Waqar got a bowl when Gilchrist was in murderous mood and trust me Waqar like everyone else looked very ordinary against Gilchrist bowling at 132-136 km/hr.

If Waqar was actually bowling at his peak rhythm where he was hitting 90-95 mph reverse swing with the old ball, Akram would have given him the ball and backed him all the way. But by 1999 the Waqar of the old had gone.

 

[LG]

^that's why it'd be interesting to get some viewpoints of batsmen who had faced them both (has Sachin faced both?)

I don't think there would be many batsmen who faced them both. And of those who did actually face both of them, I doubt there would be anyone who didn't miss either Wasim's or Imran's pomp.

 

[emclub]

Definitely Wasim Akram for me, I didn't see Imran play, and Wasim is like a hero for me, he could do everything with the ball, bowlers today can only dream off!

 

[CORNERED-TIGER]

imran wins this hands down!
no contest knock out first round

 

[Fireworks11]

Didn't see Imran in his heyday. Looking back at stats and a videos, Imran for Tests and Wasim for ODIs.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Isn't there a general feeling the wasim underachieved in tests

 

[CORNERED-TIGER]

Isn't there a general feeling the wasim underachieved in tests

yes for me .... he should ave made lost more with bat
n should ave taken abt 70/80 more wickets...

but then again u cant ave everything ur own way
he had another 3/4 gr8 bowlers around him
imran, waqar, mushtaq. qadir, saqlain and akhtar...so the number kept getting less...

but as a batsman ofcoz he should ave got at least 8 100s n many 50s

 

[emclub]

Isn't there a general feeling the wasim underachieved in tests

Dont forget he got diabetes in 97, had to take 3 injections before every one day match, thats 15 injections for tests, plus he played over 325 ODI's, captained a team full of captains (Politicians) there's many factors, overall he did well under the circumstances not underachieved...

 

[Romali_rotti]

Wasim was the top dawg for me, he was easily a better bowler than Imran...There were some major obstacles for bats when facing Wasim; his quick arm action and how he generated so much pace and bounce with such a short run up....

 

[Justcrazy]

Imran was ahead of Wasim as a bowler, not in terms of skill but in terms of commitment.
Imran was not jealous of other youngsters coming up, but its a fact that Wasim was jealous of Waqar. He was afraid that Waqar would overtake him.

 

[Robert]

.

 

[anshu1]

Phew, I always thought Wasim was the best fast bowler ever...But just went through the whole posts and certainly Imran was no less...Agree with Pakigoneaussie...When you look at Wasim's test bowling record, it just doesnt reflect the bowler that Wasim was...It will be very interesting to see video' of Wasim's bowling during 84-89 period....
I am going to assume right now, that perhaps he wouldnt have been the same dangerous bowler that he was during the fag end of his career...
Going by Stats, I would say Imran...But I'd say, if you were to ask any batsman who would they rather face, the answer would be Imran...

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

To be honest, I don't know what the author is on about. I personally have never witnessed a heated debate on this topic! I have seen heated debates about Wasim V Waqar, Waqar v Shoaib, but Imran and Wasim?

Normally, a few arguments are put forth but normally people agree to disagree quietly and carry on. The consensus normally is that Wasim was without a doubt the more naturally talented, and skilful but Imran was the more consistent, more traditional and in a way more complete fast bowler.

 

[l2k]

Believe it or not, I think Mohammad Asif could have been a much better test bowler than Wasim! Wasim simply doesn't have top test match spells to show for his talent. Asif has won matches against India, Sri Lanka and Australia with devastating spells. Unfortunately, his career has been cut short, but so far he has bowled more matchwinning spells than Wasim in his entire career.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Believe it or not, I think Mohammad Asif could have been a much better test bowler than Wasim! Wasim simply doesn't have top test match spells to show for his talent. Asif has won matches against India, Sri Lanka and Australia with devastating spells. Unfortunately, his career has been cut short, but so far he has bowled more matchwinning spells than Wasim in his entire career.

POTFY for me )

 

[Masterji]

Wasim was a good bowler but no time in his career was he the best bowler in the world. Anybody that tells you differently did not watch cricket through the era. He was always good and was close on several occasions to be the best but throughout his career he was in the top 5 or 10 but never number one. Imran was the best fast bowler in the world between 82 and 83 and only injury prevented him continuing his dominance.

 

[s2k]

Its close but Wasim Akram for me......

 

[Invictus]

To be honest, I don't know what the author is on about. I personally have never witnessed a heated debate on this topic! I have seen heated debates about Wasim V Waqar, Waqar v Shoaib, but Imran and Wasim?

Normally, a few arguments are put forth but normally people agree to disagree quietly and carry on. The consensus normally is that Wasim was without a doubt the more naturally talented, and skilful but Imran was the more consistent, more traditional and in a way more complete fast bowler.

I agree with everything you said except for the more complete part. Wasim was more of a complete bowler then Imran. Imran was primarily an in-swing bowler. He could swing it out but he couldn't use that as his stock delivery. Just like Waqar was primarily an inswing bowler. That was his weapon.
You cant contain Wasim in a "type". He could swing it both ways with the same control he could seam it both ways. He could just play with angles going wide or coming close to the stumps. With his quick arm action he used to get allot of that skiddy bounce that used to catch batsmen by surprise. I have yet to see a bowler with as many weapons to choose from as Wasim had at his disposal.
However having that ability also works against Wasim because no matter how you measure the stats of these guys Imran comes out on top. He just produced better results.

 

[cornered-tigers]

To add my two cents, I think in a comparison strictly focused on bowling, Wasim takes it. His bowling was just magic, and he struck fear into every batsmen and even fans of other teams. I didn't see much of Imran at his peak (other than some videos), but I still believe Wasim was the best fast bowler in the history of International cricket, not just Pakistan cricket. [/QUOTE]

If you have not seen Imran at his peak then yo have not seen anything. He was a phenomenon. If the vdo quality was as good as these days, you would know what I meant. The ball would dip in a yard at 90 mph where batsmen of the calibre of Vishwanath would leave it alone, only to find the off-stump rooted. This was his class. Akram never took the wciket of Gavaskar, although Akram was developing at that time, but Imran woud have Gavaskar in his kitty most often than not.

 

[cornered-tigers]

I agree with everything you said except for the more complete part. Wasim was more of a complete bowler then Imran. Imran was primarily an in-swing bowler. He could swing it out but he couldn't use that as his stock delivery. Just like Waqar was primarily an inswing bowler. That was his weapon.
You cant contain Wasim in a "type". He could swing it both ways with the same control he could seam it both ways. He could just play with angles going wide or coming close to the stumps. With his quick arm action he used to get allot of that skiddy bounce that used to catch batsmen by surprise. I have yet to see a bowler with as many weapons to choose from as Wasim had at his disposal.
However having that ability also works against Wasim because no matter how you measure the stats of these guys Imran comes out on top. He just produced better results.

The reason Wasim would get expensive or wicketless at times because he would experiment a lot. He himself said that they were not wicket to wicket bowlers and at times if the radar was nto right then they could go for plenty, he did not like McGrath-ish like bowlers, not to say he hated McGrath,

 

[alberto]

2 legends who should not be compared as they are so different but masters of their art in their own pioneering ways

 

[Tapori]

Wasim's over to Rahul Dravid in that Test Series in 1999, was Machiavellian in its construction.

Unfortunately old poor quality vhs copies of Imran Khan mean I can't really comment; Before my time.

 

[Robert]

You see, when I read statements like this, I realize that those on the pro-Wasim side of the camp dont bother looking at the facts to back up their arguments, just base it on pre-cooked assumptions.

+1

The Wasim Cult is entirely unswayed by actual statistical evidence, and I suspect most of them are not old enough to have watched Imran either.

 

[anshu1]

Just goes on to show that stats never show the real picture...Wasim was like wine...the older he got, the better he became...I think Sachin and Wasim have this similarity...And both have amazing ODi record...I simply cannot think anyone in the history of the game would have come anywhere close to Wasim. Frankly speaking, Sir Bradman was lucky he never got to face him.

Wasim for me too. He is the best fast bowler the history of cricket has ever seen !

 

[Robert]

Just goes on to show that stats never show the real picture...Wasim was like wine...the older he got, the better he became...I think Sachin and Wasim have this similarity...And both have amazing ODi record...I simply cannot think anyone in the history of the game would have come anywhere close to Wasim. Frankly speaking, Sir Bradman was lucky he never got to face him.

See what I mean? Never mind the history of the game: I can think of six bowlers around at the same time as Wasim who had better test records.

The Wasim Cult is not amenable to reason.

 

[Justcrazy]

As a bowler Wasim is the best Pakistan have produced, Imran is the greatest cricketer Pakistan has produced.

 

[Howzat]

Wasim was miles ahead of Imran as a bowler. An all rounder comparison is not fair.

 

[Robert]

Wasim was miles ahead of Imran as a bowler.

This is just crackers.

 

[Sidilicious]

Was talking about this with a friend.

Now I grew up after Imran's time and started watching cricket around 92.

Considering that most people tend to exaggerate about their cricketers of the 70s, I find it difficult to understand how Imran was a better bowler. Wasim, being a lefty made it awkward for a lot of right handers and could move the ball both ways - that too both old and new balls. IIRC in 99 against India, he was not at his best but still was phenomenal in the series against us.

Could Imran do all what Wasim could.

I am not doubting Imran being the better player and the greatest bowling all-rounder. I am just doubting claims that Imran was a better bowler than Wasim.

 

[maxamax]

Wasim was easily the best bowler I've ever seen. He made bowling look like a walk in a part. That also against ATGs like Sachin, Dravid, Lara, Flowers, Ponting etc. Havent seen much good part of Imran but I am sure that he can never be as good as Wasim as he seemed like a one dimensional cutter/swing with high pace.

 

[Hasan123]

As a bowler I'll take Wasim.

 

[Bilal7]

What do you mean by better? Wasim could do things with the ball that no one else could and based on sheer skill, ability and talent, he's the greatest bowler of all time.

That however, does not take into account that Wasim underachieved. Partlt due to diabetes, partly due to the toxic team culture during his time. While he had a dozen tricks under his sleeve, none were as effective as Imran's relatively fewer tricks and as a result, Akram could not surpass his mentor.

 

[Mamoon]

What do you mean by better? Wasim could do things with the ball that no one else could and based on sheer skill, ability and talent, he's the greatest bowler of all time.

That however, does not take into account that Wasim underachieved. Partlt due to diabetes, partly due to the toxic team culture during his time. While he had a dozen tricks under his sleeve, none were as effective as Imran's relatively fewer tricks and as a result, Akram could not surpass his mentor.

Wasim himself was the main reason for the toxic culture in Pakistan cricket in the 90's, which is why it cannot be used as an excuse for him underachieving.

He was undoubtedly more talented than Imran, but he was everything that Imran was not, and that is why he did not fulfill his incredible potential.

 

[Bilal7]

Wasim himself was the main reason for the toxic culture in Pakistan cricket in the 90's, which is why it cannot be used as an excuse for him underachieving.

He was undoubtedly more talented than Imran, but he was everything that Imran was not, and that is why he did not fulfill his incredible potential.

All that you said is true but regardless of whether or not he was an instigator, the toxic culture led to him, Waqar and Akhtar all underachieving.

 

[htariq25]

Wasim is slightly overrated in my opinion. There are better pace bowlers like Macgrath, Malcolm Marshall, Anderson and others from west Indies in that dominant period. He is no doubt slightly better bowler than imran but all rounder wise and overall package wise I would always take imran over wasim. Imran was a much better captain and like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] said wasim was the reason for toxic culture in the 90s.