'We are against the oppressors': PTM leader Manzoor Pashteen tells thousands at Peshawar rally

[Mian]

More than 23k are missing bro .He has complete list..More than 5 k from swat and the list is the same in other districts.
There is nothing political in this even ANP and pti leadrership did not show up.

Swat and those districts are part of Fata bro? His claims are about FATA only.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

More than 23k are missing bro .He has complete list..More than 5 k from swat and the list is the same in other districts.
There is nothing political in this even ANP and pti leadrership did not show up.

I am not saying you are wrong. I am going to give a different perspective for discussion purpose.

If that many people are missing just goes to show the scale of the problem that the army has had to deal with. We know anti state elements resided there and also from what Iran is/ was doing in parachinar where they were paying people to fight for them in Middle East wars, there is a good chance that other countries have not been doing the same but whose specific aim has been to destabilise Pakistan itself.

What should pakistan army do in this scenario let these people on foreign pay roam around freely in Pakistan? Also, sifting through good and bad people is not easy. It's easier said than done especially for a country who is not the most technologically advanced, even for those it is not easy and it's always a bit of hit and miss. scrutiny in that part as well as Karachi has resulted in security for all of Pakistan. Bombings have become rare where once it was highy frequent. Don't you think the security measures and reduction in bombings are not linked? As archaic as these measures are, the status quo for fata cannot continue, they cannot be allowed to be law onto themselves anymore. Change will be needed to integrate them into KP.

 

[DRsohail]

I am not saying you are wrong. I am going to give a different perspective for discussion purpose.

If that many people are missing just goes to show the scale of the problem that the army has had to deal with. We know anti state elements resided there and also from what Iran is/ was doing in parachinar where they were paying people to fight for them in Middle East wars, there is a good chance that other countries have not been doing the same but whose specific aim has been to destabilise Pakistan itself.

What should pakistan army do in this scenario let these people on foreign pay roam around freely in Pakistan? Also, sifting through good and bad people is not easy. It's easier said than done especially for a country who is not the most technologically advanced, even for those it is not easy and it's always a bit of hit and miss. scrutiny in that part as well as Karachi has resulted in security for all of Pakistan. Bombings have become rare where once it was highy frequent. Don't you think the security measures and reduction in bombings are not linked? As archaic as these measures are, the status quo for fata cannot continue, they cannot be allowed to be law onto themselves anymore. Change will be needed to integrate them into KP.

Yes i agree but one has to have a fair trail.
I am not here for advocating manzoor agenda but i am of the opinion that almost all of his demands are constituional and it needs to be adreesed rather than ignoring them and not giving them media coverage.
The guy is gathering more than 50k people from kp who are the most patriotic people i reckon,
did you here to the story that a man who fought for more than 8 years in kashmir .Hid cchildren and wife was killed in shelling before his eyes.
This list is long.
I believe our armed forces has done a commendable job but you can.t deny the fact that much of the collateral damage would have been avoided if it was palnned in a btter way.
Orakzai agency operation was started in 2008 but still paople have not returned home.WHY????
They should return now at least.
I can say what i see.
I hope our security agencies realises the issue and do dialogue with this guy otherwise things may go worst. [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] knows more than me.The rest he will explain.
But i am not of the opinion that any of his unconstitutional demands should be fulfilled.

 

[DRsohail]

I am not saying you are wrong. I am going to give a different perspective for discussion purpose.

If that many people are missing just goes to show the scale of the problem that the army has had to deal with. We know anti state elements resided there and also from what Iran is/ was doing in parachinar where they were paying people to fight for them in Middle East wars, there is a good chance that other countries have not been doing the same but whose specific aim has been to destabilise Pakistan itself.

What should pakistan army do in this scenario let these people on foreign pay roam around freely in Pakistan? Also, sifting through good and bad people is not easy. It's easier said than done especially for a country who is not the most technologically advanced, even for those it is not easy and it's always a bit of hit and miss. scrutiny in that part as well as Karachi has resulted in security for all of Pakistan. Bombings have become rare where once it was highy frequent. Don't you think the security measures and reduction in bombings are not linked? As archaic as these measures are, the status quo for fata cannot continue, they cannot be allowed to be law onto themselves anymore. Change will be needed to integrate them into KP.

And can our state justify that how these people from the own soil got involved in such things.
Hope you can asnwer it.

 

[DRsohail]

Swat and those districts are part of Fata bro? His claims are about FATA only.

No i think he talk abou all pashtun areas.LEt say it is 20k for the sake of arguments.
And people saying merging Fata with KP will solve these issues are living in fool paradise.

 

[Mian]

No i think he talk abou all pashtun areas.LEt say it is 20k for the sake of arguments.
And people saying merging Fata with KP will solve these issues are living in fool paradise.

He specifically said the figure is from FATA let me share the link and text.

Pashtun Tahafuz Movement leader Manzoor Pashteen says more than 32,000 Pashtuns have gone missing from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata)

https://www.dawn.com/news/1393572

 

[DRsohail]

He specifically said the figure is from FATA let me share the link and text.



https://www.dawn.com/news/1393572

I gave you just an estimation.Let say it is not 32 its 20k so what??DO you understand pashto?last time i heard him on a news channel he said it is even more and said we have complete list.but i think many of them will be hardcore terrorists as well but he has jis point.

 

[Loralai]

Yes i agree but one has to have a fair trail.
I am not here for advocating manzoor agenda but i am of the opinion that almost all of his demands are constituional and it needs to be adreesed rather than ignoring them and not giving them media coverage.
The guy is gathering more than 50k people from kp who are the most patriotic people i reckon,
did you here to the story that a man who fought for more than 8 years in kashmir .Hid cchildren and wife was killed in shelling before his eyes.
This list is long.
I believe our armed forces has done a commendable job but you can.t deny the fact that much of the collateral damage would have been avoided if it was palnned in a btter way.
Orakzai agency operation was started in 2008 but still paople have not returned home.WHY????
They should return now at least.
I can say what i see.
I hope our security agencies realises the issue and do dialogue with this guy otherwise things may go worst. [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] knows more than me.The rest he will explain.
But i am not of the opinion that any of his unconstitutional demands should be fulfilled.

I agree with [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]. The treatment of IDPs has not been acceptable. The whole fiasco over Watan/CNIC cards was very embarrassing. Can you imagine how it must have felt not to have been able to travel in ones own area just because you do not have a Watan card? It was absurd.

I remember reading once that IDP's in Bannu were having to protest just to get food! Their concerns are legitimate and it is high time that the likes of real extremists (who pose a threat) are treated like criminals instead of ordinary Pakistanis queueing at checkpoints.

 

[Loralai]

And can our state justify that how these people from the own soil got involved in such things.
Hope you can asnwer it.

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] iska jawab tou bohot mushkil se shayad mile

 

[Waseem]

You are pointning to one fake picture but not mentioning thousands shown their presence with true pics of their abducted ones??

Fake pictures being shared from official account does make it suspicious and as i said in my post, people have genuine concerns and shouldn't be judged based on dodgy characters like Pashteen. Maybe they didn't have platform to express their concerns which they have now.

They only have 2 options, ignore or do something about genuine concerns and they can't ignore such issues for too long.

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] iska jawab tou bohot mushkil se shayad mile

lolz.

 

[DRsohail]

Fake pictures being shared from official account does make it suspicious and as i said in my post, people have genuine concerns and shouldn't be judged based on dodgy characters like Pashteen. Maybe they didn't have platform to express their concerns which they have now.

They only have 2 options, ignore or do something about genuine concerns and they can't ignore such issues for too long.

One fake pic and so much fuss but you are ignoring the main issue.Do and read dawn news today.He is asking for judicial intervention so what is wrong.
Yes many people willl exploit this thing for fake agendas that why i say government should take him seriously and get the issue solved.
Manzooor pashteen wether dodgy or clean is ruling over the pashtun minds and hearts right now and for that you have to come to kp and ask genral people..
Thats the reason i say listen to him .

 

[Waseem]

One fake pic and so much fuss but you are ignoring the main issue.Do and read dawn news today.He is asking for judicial intervention so what is wrong.
Yes many people willl exploit this thing for fake agendas that why i say government should take him seriously and get the issue solved.
Manzooor pashteen wether dodgy or clean is ruling over the pashtun minds and hearts right now and for that you have to come to kp and ask genral people..
Thats the reason i say listen to him .

Tou bhai yehi tou maine kaha tha.

 

[DRsohail]

Tou bhai yehi tou maine kaha tha.

yes but i like to repeat it....

 

[Greenstorm]

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] iska jawab tou bohot mushkil se shayad mile

TTP leaders were from our soil as well. Altaf Hussain is from our soil as well. Mehmood Achakzai is from our soil as well. It means zilch.

 

[Mian]

So this is how PTM wanna get rights for the people of FATA and Missing Persons? By abusing Armed Forces? Army Chief and DG ISPR. They are openly raising their voice in a market abusing Armed forces so how many of them are gone missing for this act?

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is how <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PTM?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PTM</a> wanna get rights for the people of FATA and Missing Persons? By abusing Armed Forces?<br>They are no different than Fazal ur Rehman, Nawaz Sharif and Achakzai. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PashtunLongMarch?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PashtunLongMarch</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PashtunLongMarch2Peshawar?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PashtunLongMarch2Peshawar</a> <br> <a href="https://t.co/o3noEVgaOC">pic.twitter.com/o3noEVgaOC</a></p>— Azhar (@MashwaniAzhar) <a href="https://twitter.com/MashwaniAzhar/status/983708761587113984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mian]

I also want to ask why Pashteen and the PTM first tier leadership went to Haqania aka Madrisa of Taliban to gain support?

 

[waleed88]

[MENTION=135196]waleed88[/MENTION] Bhai Angrezi tou meri bhi poori poori hai laikin aapka tou bera hi gharq hai

I was trying to have a nice conversation but you can't help yourself i guess, what part of media playing positive role in Mumtaz Qadri's funeral blackout didn't you understand????

So you are saying the media blackout is right all the time? All of a sudden everything that the media does is right? No biases, no nothing right? And you are comparing two blackouts, one in which rightly the media blacked out a known murderer's funeral, but when his supporters gathered to break down the city the media showed live broacast of that, and one where the protestors are actually asking for civil rights which every human being should have...

If you are actually giving me an example, you made my point even more clearer to the biases of the media

 

[khanz141]

And to top it off, Sufi muhammad was released in January after all that happened in Swat.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1383097

 

[Eagle_Eye]

And can our state justify that how these people from the own soil got involved in such things.
Hope you can asnwer it.

That question should be directed at people involved in such things. The answer is usually poverty. Why are they working on foreign agendas? Let's be honest, pakistan is a poor country, and for the last 15 odd years it's been under intense scruntiny from powers that are much more financially and technological capable than they are who have been running amok with thousands of agents all over the place. For that, Musharaf should be punished
along with Zardari. It's a miracle that Pakistan territorial integrity is still intact looking around as to what had happened in Middle East, and that's no thanks to the civilian government to date....

I know you are a good guy, and your concern is coming from a good place, but some of those scrutinising the armed forces in this thread are not. They have their own vested interests to propagate a certain narrative. Army is the only institution that works, it's not perfect, and has flaws just like everyone else and their capabilities are greatly exaggerated which raises unrealistic expectations.

What is needed next is a non corrupt civilian leader who can hold everyone to account. I think we both agree on that candidate.

 

[DRsohail]

That question should be directed at people involved in such things. The answer is usually poverty. Why are they working on foreign agendas? Let's be honest, pakistan is a poor country, and for the last 15 odd years it's been under intense scruntiny from powers that are much more financially and technological capable than they are who have been running amok with thousands of agents all over the place. For that, Musharaf should be punished
along with Zardari. It's a miracle that Pakistan territorial integrity is still intact looking around as to what had happened in Middle East, and that's no thanks to the civilian government to date....

I know you are a good guy, and your concern is coming from a good place, but some of those scrutinising the armed forces in this thread are not. They have their own vested interests to propagate a certain narrative. Army is the only institution that works, it's not perfect, and has flaws just like everyone else and their capabilities are greatly exaggerated which raises unrealistic expectations.

What is needed next is a non corrupt civilian leader who can hold everyone to account. I think we both agree on that candidate.

Agreed but we have to be honest here.I have never seen more patriotic people that those from FATA then the question arises that why did they get involved in such things.Lack of education i think noooo,They were like this since pak came into being then why now?Poverty nooo the same question and the same answer.
Its the state policy which has ruined everything and aided by foreign interference but again that interference was due to our wrong policies which give them space to interfere and again we are repeating the same mistake and this thing will be exploited by our enemies.
A non corrupt leader will help but the problem is deep and we have to priorotoise things.

 

[DRsohail]

That question should be directed at people involved in such things. The answer is usually poverty. Why are they working on foreign agendas? Let's be honest, pakistan is a poor country, and for the last 15 odd years it's been under intense scruntiny from powers that are much more financially and technological capable than they are who have been running amok with thousands of agents all over the place. For that, Musharaf should be punished
along with Zardari. It's a miracle that Pakistan territorial integrity is still intact looking around as to what had happened in Middle East, and that's no thanks to the civilian government to date....

I know you are a good guy, and your concern is coming from a good place, but some of those scrutinising the armed forces in this thread are not. They have their own vested interests to propagate a certain narrative. Army is the only institution that works, it's not perfect, and has flaws just like everyone else and their capabilities are greatly exaggerated which raises unrealistic expectations.

What is needed next is a non corrupt civilian leader who can hold everyone to account. I think we both agree on that candidate.

every sane person knows the casualties and the services offered by armed forces and none can deny it.

 

[DRsohail]

I also want to ask why Pashteen and the PTM first tier leadership went to Haqania aka Madrisa of Taliban to gain support?

yaar aik aap bhi bus hadd kartay ho.....jaha bhi gaya tu haqqanya paksitani amdrssa ha koi foreign tu nahe,,,,awr demands agar constitutional ha tu kya msal ha....DO you think going to haqanya madrassah is not allowed.In haqanya pakistani citizens are studying and if they do something wrong then why state dont close it.good try next time.

 

[Mian]

yaar aik aap bhi bus hadd kartay ho.....jaha bhi gaya tu haqqanya paksitani amdrssa ha koi foreign tu nahe,,,,awr demands agar constitutional ha tu kya msal ha....DO you think going to haqanya madrassah is not allowed.In haqanya pakistani citizens are studying and if they do something wrong then why state dont close it.good try next time.

Mera question liberals se he is he haqaania ko leker wo IK ki class laga rahe pichle 2 years se. Inka laadla pastheen ja ker bethe haqania walon ke sath to kher he? just because uske supporter army ko gaalyan nikaalte hen so everything is good for liberals

 

[DRsohail]

Mera question liberals se he is he haqaania ko leker wo IK ki class laga rahe pichle 2 years se. Inka laadla pastheen ja ker bethe haqania walon ke sath to kher he? just because uske supporter army ko gaalyan nikaalte hen so everything is good for liberals

Acha,,,,,for me going to haqqanya is not a crime but a good thing.They are our citizens and we cant radicalize them.IK was right in his stance regarding madrssah students.i agree.

 

[Mian]

Acha,,,,,for me going to haqqanya is not a crime but a good thing.They are our citizens and we cant radicalize them.IK was right in his stance regarding madrssah students.i agree.

true we need madrissah reform to mainstream those student they are in millions we cant alienate them

 

[Mian]

Beat this guys! From building one narrative to another these desi liberals are hypocrites and drama queens of the highest level
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Withdraw Pak Army out of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FATA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FATA</a> says Imran Khan on TV. Curiously, TTP demands the same as a condition for peace. What a coincidence!</p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/435063322258718720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[the Great Khan]

The PA should be withdrawn from FATA and the FC allowed to take over operational duties. this has already happened in many areas but I Believe this should be a long term aspiration not in the short term. While we have a hostile afghanistan government that supports terrorists with the backing of India and the US we cannot afford to do so.

We should make FATA a part of KP and the army should be present there as they are in any other province. Operations have reduced and they are there to ensure security. Maybe this PTM movement should explain where they are receiving their funding and where they were when their people were being raped murdered and killed by the TTP??

 

[Pakpak]

That question should be directed at people involved in such things. The answer is usually poverty. Why are they working on foreign agendas? Let's be honest, pakistan is a poor country, and for the last 15 odd years it's been under intense scruntiny from powers that are much more financially and technological capable than they are who have been running amok with thousands of agents all over the place. For that, Musharaf should be punished
along with Zardari. It's a miracle that Pakistan territorial integrity is still intact looking around as to what had happened in Middle East, and that's no thanks to the civilian government to date....

I know you are a good guy, and your concern is coming from a good place, but some of those scrutinising the armed forces in this thread are not. They have their own vested interests to propagate a certain narrative. Army is the only institution that works, it's not perfect, and has flaws just like everyone else and their capabilities are greatly exaggerated which raises unrealistic expectations.

What is needed next is a non corrupt civilian leader who can hold everyone to account. I think we both agree on that candidate.

Excellent post, your points about the army are spot on and my view as well.

 

[Mian]

Imran Khan to seek army chief’s help to address 'Pashtun grievances'

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1683103/1-imran-khan-seek-army-chiefs-help-address-pashtun-grievances/

PESHAWAR: Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chief Imran Khan said on Wednesday that he would soon meet Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa to discuss issues pertaining to sufferings of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) people.

Addressing a convention on Fata reforms at the CM House, the PTI chairman said he would discuss a three-point agenda on the issues being faced by the tribal people, Express News reported.

The issues include reducing the numbers of security check posts, clearing the area of land mines and missing persons, he said. “People from several families are missing and their parents are worried about their whereabouts,” he was quoted as saying.

Imran vowed that his party will pursuit the merger of Fata with Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P) immediately after ‘winning’ upcoming general elections.

He stressed that the difficulties faced by tribal people could only be solved by the merger. “We will merge Fata with K-P immediately after winning upcoming elections,” said Imran.

Claiming that PTI was the only party standing up for the rights of the people of Fata, Imran said those opposing the merger did so in fear of PTI clean-sweeping elections.

The former cricketer promised that an extra Rs100 billion will be spent on the development of the tribal areas. He said the people of Fata will have an equal say in the decisions, will be given equal rights and seats in the provincial assembly.

The PTI chief remarked that the government of Pakistan did not ‘own’ Fata. “The people of Fata are very patriotic and have given many sacrifices to maintain stability in the country,” he told the crowd.

Imran said PTI had formed a committee for Fata and the recommendations had been forwarded to the standing committee on reforms in Fata.

He also vowed to hold local government elections in the tribal areas within three to five months after winning the 2018 election.

 

[Mian]

In before he is caleld Taliban Khan again and desi liberals jump the pashtun bandwagon

He raised this missing persons and FATA issue and did it for years far before pashteen and ptm started

 

[carbon11]

To be honest the tribal people want their autonomy back so they can start their criminal and smuggling activities again by using the advantage of bordering an unstable Afghanistan with a porous border and at the same time have their cake and eat it by being part of Pakistan and leeching of the rest of the country .

These tribals are against any merger with kpk that will threaten their tribal law and autonomy .

Notice how they want troops gone and checkpoints removed , so all the crap from Afghanistan can be be shipped in and they can transit it to the rest of Pakistan and using their criminal networks across Pakistan urban sprawls carry out their robberies kidnappings drugs weapons and have monopoly on transport , haulage , industries etc

Not gonna happen mate the rest of Pakistan is not gonna be held to ransom by some tribals who have a misplaced sense of being superior to everyone else and some undefeatable warrior race that has never been conquered well that's happened now pak fauj has come in and cleaned you up .

It's time to move on things won't go back to status quo of how they were before no more ilaqa ghair

 

[Waseem]

I think my post in other thread is more suitable here as there has been a bit of storm in particular on twitter on this issue and we can learn from this:

Many liberals (certain group in particular) raised this issue so much implying there is massive conspiracy to block this genuine movement for Pashtun rights. We all agreed their genuine concerns should be addressed but no they were furious, well fair enough but what was their stance on same issue, check out:

From: How dare you request Army withdrawal from FATA you taliban agent:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Withdraw Pak Army out of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FATA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FATA</a> says Imran Khan on TV. Curiously, TTP demands the same as a condition for peace. What a coincidence!</p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/435063322258718720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And: Do we have a choice? No let Army launch military strikes, keep up the great work.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fresh jet <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/bombing?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#bombing</a> kills over 100 people in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NorthWaziristan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NorthWaziristan</a> <a href="http://t.co/wvCPE2FBMY">http://t.co/wvCPE2FBMY</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a> Don’t support bloodshed but is there a choice?</p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/477929591232032770?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


To Now: These are only peaceful protests against war on terror, wow how convenient teah?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So peaceful protests against war on terror (and our flawed policies and their toxic effects on citizens) are anti-Pakistan.<br>But the violent militias killing left right and centre in Pak and Afghanistan are ‘resistance’. <br>What sort of logic is this?</p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/983212796765724672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And: More stuff what so called Taliban Khan had been saying for 15 years
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“We have lost our dear ones in this war. Our economy has been destroyed. Today, people of FATA are forced to migrate to Punjab and Sindh for cheap and petty labour... There is only war economy.” (v <a href="https://twitter.com/rafiullahkakar?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@rafiullahkakar</a>) <br>And what’s anti-state about this?</p>— Raza Ahmad Rumi (@Razarumi) <a href="https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/983211213705359360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If anyone knows PTM, most of their demands are similar to what Imran Khan has been saying for 15 years. I can totally understand when people got so desperate with ongoing terrorist attacks and almost all of us wanted military action (no ifs and buts) but now that obvious things have happened i.e. collateral damage, infrastructure damage, terrible life for people in FATA these guys change their tunes and what do they do?

Blame Army for destroying lives of innocent people after calling them terrorist supporters for not launching attacks, THIS IS WHAT I CALL MALICIOUS PROPAGANDA. . We all criticise Army and Zia's pathetic polcies but this doesn't mean non stop propaganda no matter what the situation is.
It's not about rights of people, they have genuine issues and i can explain how lot of work has already been done i.e. Army withdrawal from different areas, reduction in checkposts, infrastructure development etc and even Army has provided full support for FATA-KPK merger for long term resolution of issues. Ironically this was opposed by Achakzai types who are at forefront of protests.

 

[Waseem]

And another one on issue i posted on other thread which is relevant:
-----------------

All these Raza Rumi, Hussain Haqqani, Marvi Sirmed etc have run non stop campaign about Pashtun rights and these were same people who mocked and insulted people like Imran Khan for opposing military strikes in FATA. Ironically they called him U turn expert but they are taking massive U turn on this issue.

So Imran Khan took peace March to Waziristan, repeatedly opposed military action in tribal areas, warned about collateral damage and backlash from patriotic tribals who may turn against Pakistan if we carry out attacks. Yes his continuous demands for "Dialogue wit Talibans" wasn't appreciated and even i strongly disagreed with him but does it mean he supports Talibans somehow? NO WAY ON EARTH! He had his own reasons and strategies to deal with terrorism issue but doesn't mean he supported Talibans and this PTM issue is one of biggest examples, MANY people called him idiot and how he doesn't understand taking peace March to Waziristan, opposing drone strikes etc is helping Talibans. Maybe on this particular issue he was always right???

Now look at all these so called experts, they called him Taliban agent for his demands of withdrawing Army from tribal areas. "Oh look, Taliban are asking same so he must be supporting them"....no idiots he repeatedly talked about impacts of such strikes on average tribals, exactly what you are doing today.

Also, many asked why Imran khan doesn't talk about PTM and Pashteen "Oh must be scared of establishment"...no idiots he spoke about this issue more than any Pakistani ever and he was repeatedly insulted for that.
Imran Khan attended their initial protest and spoke about this protest in detail, he presented detailed plan of how this will be resolved and he has been strongly supporting FATA-KPK merger which dodgy leaders like Fazl ur Rehman and Achakzai strongly opposed.

 

[Mian]

And another one on issue i posted on other thread which is relevant:
-----------------

All these Raza Rumi, Hussain Haqqani, Marvi Sirmed etc have run non stop campaign about Pashtun rights and these were same people who mocked and insulted people like Imran Khan for opposing military strikes in FATA. Ironically they called him U turn expert but they are taking massive U turn on this issue.

So Imran Khan took peace March to Waziristan, repeatedly opposed military action in tribal areas, warned about collateral damage and backlash from patriotic tribals who may turn against Pakistan if we carry out attacks. Yes his continuous demands for "Dialogue wit Talibans" wasn't appreciated and even i strongly disagreed with him but does it mean he supports Talibans somehow? NO WAY ON EARTH! He had his own reasons and strategies to deal with terrorism issue but doesn't mean he supported Talibans and this PTM issue is one of biggest examples, MANY people called him idiot and how he doesn't understand taking peace March to Waziristan, opposing drone strikes etc is helping Talibans. Maybe on this particular issue he was always right???

Now look at all these so called experts, they called him Taliban agent for his demands of withdrawing Army from tribal areas. "Oh look, Taliban are asking same so he must be supporting them"....no idiots he repeatedly talked about impacts of such strikes on average tribals, exactly what you are doing today.

Also, many asked why Imran khan doesn't talk about PTM and Pashteen "Oh must be scared of establishment"...no idiots he spoke about this issue more than any Pakistani ever and he was repeatedly insulted for that.
Imran Khan attended their initial protest and spoke about this protest in detail, he presented detailed plan of how this will be resolved and he has been strongly supporting FATA-KPK merger which dodgy leaders like Fazl ur Rehman and Achakzai strongly opposed.

Hypocrisy can be seen clearly written on the forehead of these desi liberals.

 

[Gubol123]

Interesting article.. some of the links are also very interesting.. go through the original article by clicking the below link

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/the-pashtun-nationalist-movement-can-save-pakistan/

The Pashtun Nationalist Movement Can Save Pakistan

On Sunday, thousands gathered in Peshawar, the capital of the Pashtun-dominated Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) province of Pakistan, to protest against state oppression and human rights abuses that the ethnic minority has been facing for decades.

The rally, orchestrated by the Pashtun Tahafuz [Protection] Movement (PTM), had massive nationwide participation, especially from KP and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). Echoes of “da sang azadi da” (“what kind of freedom is this”) reverberated as families of missing persons held up placards and banners demanding justice for their loved ones.

While the PTM is based on deep-rooted seeds of resentment, it sparked into an uprising following the extrajudicial killing of Naqeebullah Mehsud in January, which prompted a long march to the capital a couple of weeks later.
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The PTM’s list of demands for the state includes punishing Mehsud’s killer – police officer Rao Anwar –halt in judicial killings, recovery of all missing persons, clearing FATA of land mines, and an end to humiliation at check-posts around the heavily militarized tribal region, which is a result of the age-old ethnic profiling of the Pashtuns.

The PTM is led by Manzoor Pashteen, a 26-year-old human rights activist from Waziristan, who pulls no punches in his criticism of the state or the all-powerful Army. Pashteen memorably said he won’t let the Pashtuns be tissue papers “that the Pakistani state uses – and then throws away.”

On Sunday, he orchestrated popular chants against the Army’s complicity in the spread of terrorism in the country, for which the Pashtuns – especially those in the tribal areas – have suffered most of the wrath in the shape of military operations that erased communities and left thousands homeless or completely missing.

It is owing to this vociferous delineation of brutalities against the Pashtun at the hands of Pakistan Army that there was a complete blackout of the rally in the local media, with only a few English publications providing any coverage.

Even though the Army spokesperson accepted the PTM’s grievances as “legitimate” in a press conference last month, calling Pashteen a “bright young man,” there has been active censorship of the movement under the instructions of the military establishment, considering how blatantly they challenge the state’s duplicitous security policies.

This has prompted many to dub PTM as “anti-Pakistan,” given that it refuses to see the state as based on monolithic jingoism. Hence the Pashtun protest movement is being shunned – just as Baloch nationalism has been for decades – as anti-state.

This false equivalence between a minority community’s demands for protection and the act of treason is founded upon the narrow “ideology of Pakistan” proliferated in local curricula and literature. It is reminiscent of 20th century European fascist states that needed propaganda tools to maintain unquestionable authority, or empires that had to fabricate commonalities to keep a stranglehold over the aggregate of peoples they ruled over.

Ironically, though, the PTM that can actually save Pakistan by finally redefining the very idea of nationalism that has plagued the state since 1947.

The rigid, paranoid, India-centric, Islam-mongering foundations of the state, which indeed owe a lot to the circumstances of its creation, can forever be trashed and replaced with a pluralistic idea of a Pakistani nation that embraces its multiethnic and multireligious existence without coercing a “true Pakistani” prototype that requires shunning of racial or ideological differences.

This prototype has been welded together by the imposition of Urdu and Islam – neither of which is indigenous – as an “inalienable” part of Pakistani nationalism, prompting the forcible purge of all other identities, including linguistic and cultural – as wholeheartedly embraced and propounded by the Punjabi majority.

Pakistan should know the consequences of dismissing the grievances of an ethnic minority better than anyone, having had to part ways with its eastern wing, now known as Bangladesh, in 1971. While Baloch and Pashtun nationalism movements do not have similar geographical disparity, should all centrifugal forces apply themselves in unison, the outdated idea of Pakistan would self-implode anyway.

Therefore, Pakistan’s own progress hinges on addressing the PTM grievances. For only by accepting the fact that the tribal areas have been ill-treated can FATA finally be merged into “mainstream” Pakistan, which the locals have been demanding for decades.

It is by finally repairing its social contract with the Pashtuns that Pakistan would be able to fix its relations with Afghanistan, which the state has long viewed through Islamist, India-tinted glasses as its “fifth province.”

Acknowledging Afghan sovereignty might help Pakistan recognize its own as well, considering that it has been given on lease to jihadist groups, which the state has long mistaken as strategic assets.

Most importantly, at the heart of embracing the Pashtun nationalist movement lies the revision of the state’s security policies and abandonment of internal and external jihad, which remains an existential threat to Pakistan itself, not merely to its idea.

 

[DRsohail]

To be honest the tribal people want their autonomy back so they can start their criminal and smuggling activities again by using the advantage of bordering an unstable Afghanistan with a porous border and at the same time have their cake and eat it by being part of Pakistan and leeching of the rest of the country .

These tribals are against any merger with kpk that will threaten their tribal law and autonomy .

Notice how they want troops gone and checkpoints removed , so all the crap from Afghanistan can be be shipped in and they can transit it to the rest of Pakistan and using their criminal networks across Pakistan urban sprawls carry out their robberies kidnappings drugs weapons and have monopoly on transport , haulage , industries etc

Not gonna happen mate the rest of Pakistan is not gonna be held to ransom by some tribals who have a misplaced sense of being superior to everyone else and some undefeatable warrior race that has never been conquered well that's happened now pak fauj has come in and cleaned you up .

It's time to move on things won't go back to status quo of how they were before no more ilaqa ghair

Yous are such ......poster i will say.You are targetting innocent and most patriotic people.

 

[DRsohail]

I have come to know that PTM is going to held another jalsa in Lahore where i dont think they will get that much support.

 

[Waseem]

Just heard another demand from PTM, "We urge China to stop work on CPEC"

hmm.......I hope they are just protesting for people's rights, talking about CPEC etc makes no sense.

 

[carbon11]

They are a foreign funded group

If bajwa has any sense the protest should be banned and the people arrested and full details of individual should be sought ie their historical birth go to the village or mohalla where they claim to be from , and dna, I guarantee you 90% of these people have origin in Afghanistan the locals will grass them up straight away .

Just like that chaiwala who ended up being an illegal Afghan, and also that national geographic women

 

[DRsohail]

They are a foreign funded group

If bajwa has any sense the protest should be banned and the people arrested and full details of individual should be sought ie their historical birth go to the village or mohalla where they claim to be from , and dna, I guarantee you 90% of these people have origin in Afghanistan the locals will grass them up straight away .

Just like that chaiwala who ended up being an illegal Afghan, and also that national geographic women

How do you know that are foreign funded groups and if they re then I am sure army will not allow them and as far as I know the voce thing is not in their agenda if it is there then it is wrong but making assumptions like you never hep by calling fata people smugglers and traitors . If you are of that opinion then let’s discuss it nd if you proved me wrong Then I will accept but btw you look to be keyboard warrior.

 

[DRsohail]

They are a foreign funded group

If bajwa has any sense the protest should be banned and the people arrested and full details of individual should be sought ie their historical birth go to the village or mohalla where they claim to be from , and dna, I guarantee you 90% of these people have origin in Afghanistan the locals will grass them up straight away .

Just like that chaiwala who ended up being an illegal Afghan, and also that national geographic women

I mean they are not against cpec.

 

[Waseem]

I mean they are not against cpec.

Yaar i can post link to video where they are clearly demanding Chinese to stop CPEC work.

Also, they continuously chant "dehshat gardi k peechay wardi hai", this doesn't make sense now that Army has just finished their operation after years and terrorism is all time low.

Demand for rights is fair and i think Imran Khan has presented very solid plan and people of FATA trust him as well. Don't you think it would be FAR more practical for a national leader like Imran Khan who FATA and KPK people trust to resolve these issues rather than these Pashteen types who are making some outrageous statements and demands that divide not just Pakistanis but Pashtuns as well??

 

[saeedhk]

I have tremendous respect for the armed forces and highly appreciate the countless sacrifices they have made for the nation. However, their links with sunni militant organizations such as the LeJ, who are leading the Shia genocide in the country, are a matter of shame and great concern. LeJ has the second highest body count after the TTP.

LeJ leaders continue to roam the streets of Pakistan and spew hatred.They are provided state security. In the last two weeks, at least five Shias have been gunned down in Quetta and Karachi.Amongst them, a banker.

‘Yeh jo dehshatgardi hai, iss kay pechay wardi hai,’ has truth to it.

 

[Waseem]

I have tremendous respect for the armed forces and highly appreciate the countless sacrifices they have made for the nation. However, their links with sunni militant organizations such as the LeJ, who are leading the Shia genocide in the country, are a matter of shame and great concern. LeJ has the second highest body count after the TTP.

LeJ leaders continue to roam the streets of Pakistan and spew hatred.They are provided state security. In the last two weeks, at least five Shias have been gunned down in Quetta and Karachi.Amongst them, a banker.

‘Yeh jo dehshatgardi hai, iss kay pechay wardi hai,’ has truth to it.

You have to understand the context here though, they remember this deshat gardi chants after fauj has just completed one of biggest operations in our history losing soldiers on daily basis???
As for LeJ, it's not just black and white. Malik Ishaq's encounter was done because he kept escaping from courts.

Also, considering what is happening in most Muslim countries, don't you think security agencies have done a tremendous job to control that wave to spread in our country?

Thirdly, there is enough Shia representation in our forces so there is no way on earth fauj as an institution can support anti Shia activities. Yes there is possibility of some rogue individuals supporting some groups but fauj as an institution is way too professional for this to happen.

 

[saeedhk]

You have to understand the context here though, they remember this deshat gardi chants after fauj has just completed one of biggest operations in our history losing soldiers on daily basis???
As for LeJ, it's not just black and white. Malik Ishaq's encounter was done because he kept escaping from courts.

Also, considering what is happening in most Muslim countries, don't you think security agencies have done a tremendous job to control that wave to spread in our country?

Thirdly, there is enough Shia representation in our forces so there is no way on earth fauj as an institution can support anti Shia activities. Yes there is possibility of some rogue individuals supporting some groups but fauj as an institution is way too professional for this to happen.

Malik Ishaq stopped listening to the Boys and he was about to join the ISIS right before he was killed. There was a news article on it as well.


Rogue elements still represent the Pakistani military and why has not any action been taken against such individuals? In the last decade, 6000 Hazaras have been murdered.

Why do the LEAs provide security to anti-Shia militants such as Aurangzaib Farooqi and his ilk?

I suggest you to read an article published in The Dawn titled ‘ Where Should the Hazaras Go?’ and included an interview with an ex-security official who highlights the collusion between security forces based and anti-Shia militants in Quetta.

As you mentioned, the military has done a good job in cleansing the country of extremism which I agree with but it has a selective operation.

 

[DRsohail]

Yaar i can post link to video where they are clearly demanding Chinese to stop CPEC work.

Also, they continuously chant "dehshat gardi k peechay wardi hai", this doesn't make sense now that Army has just finished their operation after years and terrorism is all time low.

Demand for rights is fair and i think Imran Khan has presented very solid plan and people of FATA trust him as well. Don't you think it would be FAR more practical for a national leader like Imran Khan who FATA and KPK people trust to resolve these issues rather than these Pashteen types who are making some outrageous statements and demands that divide not just Pakistanis but Pashtuns as well??

I am not denying tha fact that they may be chanted it but have never heard this thing in their agenda which they put forward in isd and now in peshawar . And let me tell you nobody from fata believe in any politician any more even Imran Khan though i personally support ik and that is the reason they are after Manzoor paahtun. I will say instead of ignoring him listen to him . Act upon justifiable demands and warn him that let we are solving ur legal issues but ur unconditional demands will never be met and stay in ur limits otherwise we will take action. But here ignoring him completely is not the answer which may be suitable for some key board warriors but in reality the guy has the support and should be brought into negotiation ۰and look at the pathetic response of some posters here calling Pashtuns dahshat gard who have given every type of qorbaani for this country ns they call us smugglers etc

 

[Lonewarrior]

Army Chief Bajwa Reply To Manzoor Pashteen (Indirectly)

The message has been sent..

 

[LegendInzi]

First they came for Bengalis, then Mohajirs, then for Balochs and now Pakhtuns are up against the state....every person of this country is in the wrong, except those in uniform.

 

[DRsohail]

First they came for Bengalis, then Mohajirs, then for Balochs and now Pakhtuns are up against the state....every person of this country is in the wrong, except those in uniform.

Hahhaha very few times where we can agree. It is painful to here some posters and people calling fata people smugglers and calling them terrorests.

 

[Slog]

First they came for Bengalis, then Mohajirs, then for Balochs and now Pakhtuns are up against the state....every person of this country is in the wrong, except those in uniform.

And punjabis..... But then again army is from Punjab

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Hahhaha very few times where we can agree. It is painful to here some posters and people calling fata people smugglers and calling them terrorests.

So you would like status quo to continue on the guise that it's always been like that? where criminals can go and hide there from the law, anyone can buy guns from fata, hire hitmen.... the list is endless. All in the name of their culture? Seriously, it's 2018 in case you didn't realise.

 

[DRsohail]

So you would like status quo to continue on the guise that it's always been like that? where criminals can go and hide there from the law, anyone can buy guns from fata, hire hitmen.... the list is endless. All in the name of their culture? Seriously, it's 2018 in case you didn't realise.

Bro they were selling all those things because they were allowed.when did i say they should be allowed..i will object anything inhuman happened to them..Can you imagine what type of difficulties they have faced and facing now.
Now when they are there for their rights we call them RAW against etc.
you should go and study history of Fata.They were used in 80s war and our government encouged them to buy and make those askaha ect.
If you are playing with the lives of people and using them for strategic gains then many things go wrong.

 

[Pakistanian]

Bro they were selling all those things because they were allowed.when did i say they should be allowed..i will object anything inhuman happened to them..Can you imagine what type of difficulties they have faced and facing now.
Now when they are there for their rights we call them RAW against etc.
you should go and study history of Fata.They were used in 80s war and our government encouged them to buy and make those askaha ect.
If you are playing with the lives of people and using them for strategic gains then many things go wrong.

That's cause they were intially being used against Pakistan since it's inception. Accept the durrand line and move on.

 

[Pakistanian]

First they came for Bengalis, then Mohajirs, then for Balochs and now Pakhtuns are up against the state....every person of this country is in the wrong, except those in uniform.

Yeah apparently making accusations without evidence (called libel in the first world) is not wrong in your view.

 

[DRsohail]

That's cause they were intially being used against Pakistan since it's inception. Accept the durrand line and move on.

who said that deurand line is not acceptable??...they are demanding for their humanely rights which should not be a sin.
You are posting without any context..who was responsible for distributing those guns ....those poor people have been used like tissue paper and i think they have realise it.I am personally not from FATA but i have been living with many of them and knows things better than a poster like you who is just like a key board warrior here.

 

[Pakistanian]

who said that deurand line is not acceptable??...they are demanding for their humanely rights which should not be a sin.
You are posting without any context..who was responsible for distributing those guns ....those poor people have been used like tissue paper and i think they have realise it.I am personally not from FATA but i have been living with many of them and knows things better than a poster like you who is just like a key board warrior here.

I also know some people from there pretty well and my relatives in Pak have gotten death threats from these kind of people. They pride themselves in their tribal gun totting culture. They should be treated like humans but conditions should be laid that womena and children over there get there rights, they can't keep hiding behind an archaic "honor" code.

 

[DRsohail]

I also know some people from there pretty well and my relatives in Pak have gotten death threats from these kind of people. They pride themselves in their tribal gun totting culture. They should be treated like humans but conditions should be laid that womena and children over there get there rights, they can't keep hiding behind an archaic "honor" code.

So you have relatives in pak and genarelizing things but i have been there to fata hve relatives in FATA being displaced,For your information i am till setting in a relative home who have been displaced for 10 years.Now tell me who is key board warrior.

 

[DRsohail]

I also know some people from there pretty well and my relatives in Pak have gotten death threats from these kind of people. They pride themselves in their tribal gun totting culture. They should be treated like humans but conditions should be laid that womena and children over there get there rights, they can't keep hiding behind an archaic "honor" code.

so by killing them and not bringing to the court of law,,,,killing them in curfew i mean women and children,redicueling them on check posts are humane??

 

[Pakistanian]

So you have relatives in pak and genarelizing things but i have been there to fata hve relatives in FATA being displaced,For your information i am till setting in a relative home who have been displaced for 10 years.Now tell me who is key board warrior.

They're being displaced for a reason. This wouldn't happen if there wasn't an insurgency in the first place.

 

[Pakistanian]

so by killing them and not bringing to the court of law,,,,killing them in curfew i mean women and children,redicueling them on check posts are humane??

You know they don't even recognize courts over there or Pakistan's jurisdiction until recently when they were shown who's boss. Besides what they've been doing isn't anywhere near humane.

 

[DRsohail]

They're being displaced for a reason. This wouldn't happen if there wasn't an insurgency in the first place.

and insurgency happened for a reason whcih you can never answer.And is it not enough time to clean the area.10 years?/those people were most peaceful pre 2001 then y this and how?

 

[DRsohail]

You know they don't even recognize courts over there or Pakistan's jurisdiction until recently when they were shown who's boss. Besides what they've been doing isn't anywhere near humane.

So why did they not know it?is this not stste responsibilty to educate them rather than using them for proxy wars?

 

[Pakistanian]

and insurgency happened for a reason whcih you can never answer.And is it not enough time to clean the area.10 years?/those people were most peaceful pre 2001 then y this and how?

I already answered it. They were doing Afghanistan's bidding after 1947, they were rarely peaceful pre 2001. Tribal warfare was the rule of the land.

 

[Pakistanian]

So why did they not know it?is this not stste responsibilty to educate them rather than using them for proxy wars?

Dude it's been such an uphill battle to just to vaccinate their kids against polio with polio workers getting shot. Educating people there and changing laws has many complications. What they should do is permanently settle these guys in eastern Pakistan and let eastern Pakistanis settle their lands. It's a population swap that could change the culture.

 

[DRsohail]

I already answered it. They were doing Afghanistan's bidding after 1947, they were rarely peaceful pre 2001. Tribal warfare was the rule of the land.

Thats your understanding about this then i have to stop here.Bro none from FATA wanted and want merger with Afghanisitan but you are again....

 

[DRsohail]

Dude it's been such an uphill battle to just to vaccinate their kids against polio with polio workers getting shot. Educating people there and changing laws has many complications. What they should do is permanently settle these guys in eastern Pakistan and let eastern Pakistanis settle their lands. It's a population swap that could change the culture.

I know it was but how did it start in first place and who was responsible is still the question none will nswer,,and those areas were cleard in less than an year but none is allowed to go back.all homes have been destroyed no schools no hospitals,and it was done by our army though.
Yes i know when they allowed people of waziristan to go back in selected areas and more than hundred people died in those mines.If you have not cleared the area then y send them back and if you are taking that much time then wht i will say.
These are not the things which can be explained here but i will tell you one thing that please read about the state policy about these people for the last 70 years and then come and debate.But from impratial sources.

 

[Mian]

PTM canceled their jalsa in Karak after the resistance shown by locals.

 

[LegendInzi]

Such sentiments can never be suppressed by traitor-calling or enemy's puppet card. You would expect that some lesson would have been learnt by now, but then what could you expect from duffers whose education never went beyond Intermediate.

The movement can surely be quashed with the force of a gun, but the population there at large will remain disillusioned forever.

 

[Mian]

PTI local leadership arranged a massive Jalsa in a FATA town today and that too without Imran Khan just Murad Saeed was there.

 

[Pakistanian]

Such sentiments can never be suppressed by traitor-calling or enemy's puppet card. You would expect that some lesson would have been learnt by now, but then what could you expect from duffers whose education never went beyond Intermediate.

The movement can surely be quashed with the force of a gun, but the population there at large will remain disillusioned forever.

You're the one that sounds like the "duffer". Military officers undergoe training that goes way beyond 12 years of education and theu also gain crucial lfie experiences. Y'all just insult military officers without knowing sht, even in America nobody disses the military like that. Just cause you have a degree doesn't make you smarter or more abled, this desi obsession with degrees is just odd and makes no sense.

 

[Loralai]

First they came for Bengalis, then Mohajirs, then for Balochs and now Pakhtuns are up against the state....every person of this country is in the wrong, except those in uniform.

Yes, you are right. It is so painful to see the kind of support they enjoy in spite of the problems they have caused us. [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] they will come for Punjabis who question their writ. Nobody is safe in Pakistan.

 

[Waseem]

First they came for Bengalis, then Mohajirs, then for Balochs and now Pakhtuns are up against the state....every person of this country is in the wrong, except those in uniform.

Ironically latest one who claims to be victim is the person who raised the slogan "Jaag Punjabi jaag" so it seems it is Pindi vs rest of Pakistan then

Whole nation asked for military action in FATA, everyone wanted terrorist to be eliminated. Military action is carried out, innocent people also suffered which was always predicted and everyone hailed role of PAKISTAN Army (And it was Pakistan Army till this point).

As soon as we see rights movement from locals (whether it's sponsored or not is different issue), people who suffered speak up and now we are back to "Punjabi Army" and it becomes issue of Punjabi Army targeting innocent Pashtuns.

This when majority of soldiers fighting in these areas are also Pashtuns, just check record of all the soldiers who sacrificed their lives fighting terrorists, MOST belonged to KPK.

 

[LordEddardStark]

In Pakistan, there is a strange tendency to have different reactions towards Pakistani nationalism and provincial or race based nationalism. Moroever, the religion is associated with and is made an integral part of Pakistani nationalism but Pakhtun or Balochistan nationalism is termed as anti-state and anti-religion too. I wonder why there are so less people questioning this anomaly.

Regarding PTM, shouldn't it be a matter of concern that since independence, some part of every nationality has raised it's voice against civil/military Establishment and it's ideology/dogma. Balochs have been doing that since birth of this country; Sindhis have Taraqqi pasand / nationalistic movements, Bengalis went a step further and got their own country. The only people having no issues with Establishment and it's policy are the Punjabies.
Isn't it appropriate for leadership and Establishment to sit with the minority nationalities and listen to their grievances for once? They have sat with religiously fanatics and have gone so far in their appeasement to allow them government outside constitution of the country. Why can't they do so for someone who is asking for their rights as per constitution and law of the land?

 

[the Great Khan]

Im confused. When IK said lets give peace a chance he was lambasted as Taliban khan and terrorist apologist. Now we have a whole majma of "taliban khans" allegedly shouting for their rights (rights that were taken away from them by their own brethren in Swat and other areas like Miranshah") and we should listen to their screams and apologise for fighting their terrorist brothers??

its quite transparent that this PTM nonsense is just another phase in the ongoing war against Pakistan. An attempt to try and Syria-ise the whole situation. Study after study in the west has concluded that the only thing holding the country together is a disciplined multi denominational, multi ethnic armed force. This is another insidious attempt to try and break through that iron discipline by appealing to the pasthtuns. We have seen this before in the 50's and 70's.

Make no mistake Syria is another experiment in state destruction. The lessons learnt there will be applied elsewhere.

We will not break and we will not succumb to this new agitation.

 

[DRsohail]

Such sentiments can never be suppressed by traitor-calling or enemy's puppet card. You would expect that some lesson would have been learnt by now, but then what could you expect from duffers whose education never went beyond Intermediate.

The movement can surely be quashed with the force of a gun, but the population there at large will remain disillusioned forever.

Let these key board warriors post what they think but i will ask them to have a short tour to KP and FATA and ask people about this i am sure more than 50% people will say he is not wrong.
You cant supress such things by force.The only thing is negotiation.
There are huge sentiments beyond this and need to be handeled carefully.

 

[DRsohail]

PTI local leadership arranged a massive Jalsa in a FATA town today and that too without Imran Khan just Murad Saeed was there.

Thats was sin BAjaur and most of the people were from Dir lower but is is good for PTI that they have support in FATA.

 

[DRsohail]

You're the one that sounds like the "duffer". Military officers undergoe training that goes way beyond 12 years of education and theu also gain crucial lfie experiences. Y'all just insult military officers without knowing sht, even in America nobody disses the military like that. Just cause you have a degree doesn't make you smarter or more abled, this desi obsession with degrees is just odd and makes no sense.

Sentiments on high. bro.

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] i can just only see the neagtive response to the thread calling patriotic people smugglers,terrosrist.RAW agents etc with out any proof.This is painful and shows that we are nowehere.

 

[Loralai]

[MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] i can just only see the neagtive response to the thread calling patriotic people smugglers,terrosrist.RAW agents etc with out any proof.This is painful and shows that we are nowehere.

[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] bhai we have a very long way to go.

Manzoor Pashteen has not at any stage indicated that he is anti-Pakistan. He has simply requested his rights and the rights of other Pakhtuns which are written in our Constitution. Our Constitution is not the most perfect in the world but we should be loyal to it. Most Pakhtuns (and, from my experience, most progressives from other ethnic groups are in agreement with his requests).

It is not fair to label or demonise people of FATA or indeed of any region of Pakistan as smugglers or terrorists and I find it sad that people will resort to such language. If we are going to use this kind of language, then it really shows we haven't learnt anything at all and have a long way to go.

There is no doubt that the people of FATA have suffered for a very long time. They were suffering during British rule and have continued to suffer in spite of being "free" Pakistan for 70 years. It is easy to forget that they have given untold sacrifices for this country and that they are fiercely patriotic. That does not mean, however, that they can be taken for granted and that their grievances should not be taken seriously.

We should be open and willing to criticise our armed forces. Remember, it is their duty to keep the public safe (and not to be involved in politics or business affairs). We should accept that policies of Pakistan army and concepts of strategic depth in Afghanistan has had a very negative impact on people throughout Pakistan, but especially in FATA and KP. We are happy to blame Afghanistan (and so we should if it is being used as a sanctuary for terrorists), but we should be equally critical of our own armed forces. I do not understand why in India and Pakistan, questioning the choices of the army is automatically equated to being anti-national or a RAW/ISI agent.

Every day people of Pakistan are paying the price for these policies. Just yesterday there was an attack on the Christian community in Quetta, but we are willing to ignore or overlook these instances because they do not suit the narrative we have been taught by our uniformed superiors.