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"We don't see any young Pakistani batsmen developing & I am not sure the reason why": Mickey Arthur

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"We don't see any young Pakistani batsmen developing & I am not sure the reason why": Mickey Arthur

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Some quotes from Mickey Arthur in a press conference

"We have three games to go, we win them and we will win the competition"

"We don't see any young Pakistan batsmen developing, and I am not sure the reason why"

"Its the same old, tried and tested ones, that keep on performing which is a little bit of worry for Pakistan going forwards"
 
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Come on Mickey. You keep selecting the likes of and has beens like Hafeez and Malik. Which youngster did you give a chance in the middle order which youngster did you take on with the team to develop?

Very poor comments and very dissapointing.
 
Well the answer is very simple. Vast majority of the top 3-4 positions are being given to either Pakistani TTF's or the Foreign players. In some instances the foreign players are played because they are foreign and not because of form or anything. Give chances to Pakistani youngsters at the top of the order
 
Needs to leave after the world cup. Doesn't know how to use our plethora of spin options especially for Tests. And his statement is nonsense.

Yes maybe there isn't world class batsmen coming but there are some pretty good ones who aren't even being looked at. Saad Ali, Saud Shakil, Usman Saluhuddin...
 
Babar is world class right now. Will be a Top 3 batsman in the next 5 years.
 
Lol. Zeeshan Malik, Saud Shakeel, Saif Badar don't play the tournament and then you wonder why this is the case.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Needs to leave after the world cup. Doesn't know how to use our plethora of spin options especially for Tests. And his statement is nonsense.

Yes maybe there isn't world class batsmen coming but there are some pretty good ones who aren't even being looked at. Saad Ali, Saud Shakil, Usman Saluhuddin...
Click to expand...

I agree Mickey is pretty mediocre in his tactics, his poor record in tests in UAE due to glaring blunders and his coaching of KK which I guess highest number of players which have represented Pak is worrying.
 
troodon said:
Babar is world class right now. Will be a Top 3 batsman in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...

He needs to learn how to finish matches. Though his is just 24, as you have mentioned he will improve will time.
 
Ahson8 said:
Lol. Zeeshan Malik, Saud Shakeel, Saif Badar don't play the tournament and then you wonder why this is the case.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. There are plenty of batsmen with loads of potential, the problem is they're stuck behind guys like Azam Khan
 
I'll make it easy for you to understand why Mickey?!!! Because only TTF and granddad's are selected ahead of youngsters. How many youngsters were given chances and how many innings did they get each? Yet TTFS play every game
 
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One of the reasons is Mickey Arthur only looks at the PSL for selecting talent.

He's very clueless when it comes to picking up new players.

Totally ignoring list A and first class.
 
young batsmen aren't being selected.

We just keep seeing the likes of Umar Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Umar Amin, Salman Butt, Ifthikar Ahmad, Asif Ali.... over and over again
 
Tapeball cricket is one of the biggest reasons for decline in Pakistani batsmen. Plus decline of club and school cricket has also contributed.
 
Savak said:
Well the answer is very simple. Vast majority of the top 3-4 positions are being given to either Pakistani TTF's or the Foreign players. In some instances the foreign players are played because they are foreign and not because of form or anything. Give chances to Pakistani youngsters at the top of the order
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Main reason. Teams are not willing to invest in young talent as it is may be risky rather than foreign talent.
 
You guys need to understand that when it comes to selection, you pick the best available player. Its not the franchise owners jobs to pick and play your favorite upcoming kid. That simply comes to domestic form and numbers.
 
How about changing the batting coach? Giving youngsters like Saud Shakeel and Saad Ali a chance.
 
Very poor comments from Mickey. Seems like he doesnt know about Pakistani batsmen apart from PSL.

And in PSL most batting line ups have tried and tested players and foreigners in top 5/6.
 
Batsman need good, hard, dry wickets. In PK we play too much Cricket in poor wickets, just imagine if how our batsman would develop if I they grew up on this Karachi wicket with a little more grass
 
Kashmirilion said:
I'll make it easy for you to understand why Mickey?!!! Because only TTF and granddad's are selected ahead of youngsters. How many youngsters were given chances and how many innings did they get each? Yet TTFS play every game
Click to expand...

Good point. Someone needs to do an analysis and find out at what position these senior TTFa play during PSL and how many emerging batsmen are selected to begim with and at what position they are made to play.
 
Need to enforce the 1 emerging batsman quota next season.

Also doesn't help when the likes of Saud warm the bench and last year someone like Saif was played out of position at 6/7.
 
As long as Mickey Arthur does not see First Class and List A as the source of selection for the national team, nothing will change.

We won't see any new batsmen.
 
They won't when they're either collecting splinters sitting on the bench like Saud Shakeel or Saad Ali.
 
Hawkeye said:
As long as Mickey Arthur does not see First Class and List A as the source of selection for the national team, nothing will change.

We won't see any new batsmen.
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As a National coach he should follow domestic other than PSL too. Or atleast follow and monitor progress of top performers.

Some will say thats not the job of Mickey and rather sole job of selection committee then he should not make poor comments like these about batsmen when he doesn't know about them.
 
Hawkeye said:
As long as Mickey Arthur does not see First Class and List A as the source of selection for the national team, nothing will change.

We won't see any new batsmen.
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This. Why is Mickey Arthur even looking at PSL for new batsmen? :facepalm:
 
I like the fresh team we have picked for Aus ODIs. Players develop by playing international cricket not by sitting at home.
 
gazza619 said:
I like the fresh team we have picked for Aus ODIs. Players develop by playing international cricket not by sitting at home.
Click to expand...

Do let us know which fresh team you are talking about?
 
Maybe you should try grooming some of the new guys, instead taking the easy way out and saying you "don't see any talent."
 
doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Abdullah Khan is one of the best t20 batsmen in the country and didn’t even get selected for PSL.
 
Some people prefer to be in perpetual denial, but the reality is that our batting talent is garbage.

The so-called shining stars who have been mistreated and not given a chance in the PSL will show their worth soon.

And when they inevitably fail like Sahibzada etc., the next batch will be hyped up.
 
QalandarFan said:
Maybe you should try grooming some of the new guys, instead taking the easy way out and saying you "don't see any talent."
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Not his job to do that in the Pakistan team.

There is a whole structure to work on this aspect - which has failed.
 
Although, I am not going to refute his claim about the dearth of batting talent in Pakistan. To be fair, the PSL that I have been watching hasn't given a lot of chances to these 'young' players . . Most of them are benched in favor of 'tried and tested players' as he calls them or foreign players.
 
This guy is a hypocrite and dishonest. I had big hope for him about get rid of TTF. He is as bad as our predecessor like Miandad who promoted his nephew and at present Inzamam are doing same thing. All the franchises didn't give even 2 fair chances to an young batsman.

Nasir Nawaz was sent too late so as Umair Masood, no opportunities for Saud Shakil, Nabi Gul at all from PSL squad. There are also good batsmen like Saif Badar, Zeesan Malik, Rohail Nazir....didn't even make in the squad.

All the teams either promote local oldies and TTFs or foreign players on top 5. How can you find a batsman batting at no. 7 when only 10-15 balls left in the innings?

Its time to kick out Micky, he is not any better than local coaches in terms of favoritism or boasting.
 
MenInG said:
Not his job to do that in the Pakistan team.

There is a whole structure to work on this aspect - which has failed.
Click to expand...

We had worst structure with much less facilites before but still we had some good batsmen like Miandad, Inzamam, Hanif, Zaher, Yousuf, Younis, S Anwar...
Unless we have an honest selector we could have 200 young batsmen but still Malik, Hafeez, Kamran will be in our team.
 
Shafi said:
This guy is a hypocrite and dishonest. I had big hope for him about get rid of TTF. He is as bad as our predecessor like Miandad who promoted his nephew and at present Inzamam are doing same thing. All the franchises didn't give even 2 fair chances to an young batsman.

Nasir Nawaz was sent too late so as Umair Masood, no opportunities for Saud Shakil, Nabi Gul at all from PSL squad. There are also good batsmen like Saif Badar, Zeesan Malik, Rohail Nazir....didn't even make in the squad.

All the teams either promote local oldies and TTFs or foreign players on top 5. How can you find a batsman batting at no. 7 when only 10-15 balls left in the innings?

Its time to kick out Micky, he is not any better than local coaches in terms of favoritism or boasting.
Click to expand...

The difference is Imam is performing and Faisal didn't.
 
Savak said:
Well the answer is very simple. Vast majority of the top 3-4 positions are being given to either Pakistani TTF's or the Foreign players. In some instances the foreign players are played because they are foreign and not because of form or anything. Give chances to Pakistani youngsters at the top of the order
Click to expand...

This... most of the PSL teams are foreign top order heavy with very little trust on the local young talent. Yes, understand that its a private league, and also the kids didnt really shine out when given the odd chance. Ultimately would like to see the foreign quota down to three, so teams are forced to use local batters. This year we have seen lots of new upcoming/promising bowlers as not many foreign bowlers were used (plus we are blessed in this facet of the game).

I personally am waiting for that stud wk/batsman to kick out sarfraz and rizwan the likes from the playing 11... guess it will be a long wait...
 
I dont blame Mickey, its not his fault, he is the Pakistan team head coach, its not his fault the selection committe isn't picking players on merit .

Pcb needs to change the rules for psl franchise selection criteria for playing 11
4 foreign players
4 emerging (2 bat/2 bowl)
3 international
Franchises want to recuperate thyre revenue, captains want the accolades and prestige that comes with tournament winners neither has any real interest in the future of Pakistan cricket in general
 
Shafi said:
We had worst structure with much less facilites before but still we had some good batsmen like Miandad, Inzamam, Hanif, Zaher, Yousuf, Younis, S Anwar...
Unless we have an honest selector we could have 200 young batsmen but still Malik, Hafeez, Kamran will be in our team.
Click to expand...

The rest of the world has since moved on.
 
Mamoon said:
Some people prefer to be in perpetual denial, but the reality is that our batting talent is garbage.

The so-called shining stars who have been mistreated and not given a chance in the PSL will show their worth soon.

And when they inevitably fail like Sahibzada etc., the next batch will be hyped up.
Click to expand...

thanks for your pearls of wisdom. Everything is bakwaas yeah we get it now go and take your meds..
 
Apart from Islamabad United not a single PSL franchise is willing to give chances to the youngesters. If you don't want to give opportunity to new comers how can you develop batsmen.
 
A bit surprised to see MA being bashed for the wrong reason here. He needs to be judged for his comments here, but not like this and not for what he said. What I can read is that he is talking about the development, the learning curve of young PAK batsmen and ended saying that due to youngsters failing to capitalise the opportunity or to improve with time, few seniors are almost invincible.

I don’t think he should be bashed for saying what is fact. Arthur tried to get rid of Hafeez - Asia Cup happened. Rizwan got his chance in SAF - showed what he could do. Yesterday, the innings KAkmal played - had he not been cursed, should have walked into PAK WC team; his bro has forced MA to swallow a bitter pill. On contrary, whatever chances given (read it invested), most of the youngsters have been disappointing after a decent outings - Talat, Farhan, Asif, Imam... in fact, if there is an honest judgement, Ahmed should make the PAK squad as well, based on PSL. These youngsters are in PAK national set-up for quite sometimes now.

I didn’t like his comment that he has no clue why - as a coach of highest level for 20+ years now, it’s his job to find out why & how, what needs to be done; not to state the fact that most can see with an open mind. PPs general feeling is that there are low hanging fruits awaiting to be plucked, only if they are given chances, so it’s all about poor selection, may be partially true for bowlers, but not for batting - problem is somewhere else.
 
Mickey Arthur has done very little if nothing to improve Pakistani Cricket apart from added commitment to fielding. Bowlers have generally gone backwards and he is yet to develop a batsman. So why isn't Pakistan producing batsman?

1. The Structure Below Domestic Cricket: Pakistanis Don't Play with a Hard Ball Until Much Later in Life. When they do, it is with a poor quality bowl.

2. The Domestic Cricket Structure is Very Poor. The pitches, the balls, and the coaching is third rate.

3. The Individuals Responsible for Identifying Batting Talent are Incompetent to the Subject.

4. We Lack a Professional Player Development System. This is a consequence of poor processes, poor coaching, and a lack of vision.
 
unemployedgm said:
Mickey Arthur has done very little if nothing to improve Pakistani Cricket apart from added commitment to fielding. Bowlers have generally gone backwards and he is yet to develop a batsman. So why isn't Pakistan producing batsman?

1. The Structure Below Domestic Cricket: Pakistanis Don't Play with a Hard Ball Until Much Later in Life. When they do, it is with a poor quality bowl.

2. The Domestic Cricket Structure is Very Poor. The pitches, the balls, and the coaching is third rate.

3. The Individuals Responsible for Identifying Batting Talent are Incompetent to the Subject.

4. We Lack a Professional Player Development System. This is a consequence of poor processes, poor coaching, and a lack of vision.
Click to expand...

Do you think that a guy involved in SAF cricket for 35+ years doesn’t know this? In fact are these points not escalated/discussed in PP before?

This is why I said, MA should be bashed for different reasons - not telling the bitter truth, so that his employers don’t get upset. He is talking about development and PSL isn’t the right platform to do so - but, telling that in media doesn’t go well for PSL ....
 
MMHS said:
A bit surprised to see MA being bashed for the wrong reason here. He needs to be judged for his comments here, but not like this and not for what he said. What I can read is that he is talking about the development, the learning curve of young PAK batsmen and ended saying that due to youngsters failing to capitalise the opportunity or to improve with time, few seniors are almost invincible.

I don’t think he should be bashed for saying what is fact. Arthur tried to get rid of Hafeez - Asia Cup happened. Rizwan got his chance in SAF - showed what he could do. Yesterday, the innings KAkmal played - had he not been cursed, should have walked into PAK WC team; his bro has forced MA to swallow a bitter pill. On contrary, whatever chances given (read it invested), most of the youngsters have been disappointing after a decent outings - Talat, Farhan, Asif, Imam... in fact, if there is an honest judgement, Ahmed should make the PAK squad as well, based on PSL. These youngsters are in PAK national set-up for quite sometimes now.

I didn’t like his comment that he has no clue why - as a coach of highest level for 20+ years now, it’s his job to find out why & how, what needs to be done; not to state the fact that most can see with an open mind. PPs general feeling is that there are low hanging fruits awaiting to be plucked, only if they are given chances, so it’s all about poor selection, may be partially true for bowlers, but not for batting - problem is somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't know if there are some unknown younger batsmen who have sparkling talent in the wings, but there have been some local players in each team who have looked poor. The TTFs who everyone is complaining about do look better than those fellows.

Even Shan Masood who did well yesterday, isn't a naturally gifted player, but he seems to have worked hard on his game and is definitely coming into the picture. If there are more talented players who we aren't seeing, then the local coaches need to be pushing them forward for PSL selection.
 
Abid Ali has been selected for the ODI's against Australia. Lets see if he avails the opportunity
 
MenInG said:
Not his job to do that in the Pakistan team.

There is a whole structure to work on this aspect - which has failed.
Click to expand...

In that case, it's not his job to make baseless statements about quality of batting talent in Pakistan either
 
Yes batting is a perennial problem for Pakistan which is further compounded by not giving chances to youngsters..
 
If Karachi Kings still fails to qualify for finals this time then Mickey should ask questions to himself too.

4 seasons and zero to show.
 
I guess every body have been somewhat disappointing by the lack of young local batters in the PSL, but it's a lot more complex
(a) The pitches aren't conducive for stroke play and even some foreign players struggle to time the ball.
(b) Local batsmen lack the proper technique, even some players (supposed to be power hitters) are just hacks.
(c) Lack of power in case of conventional players. I have also noticed that their stance pretty much limits them.
(d) Some youngsters are pre-meditated stroke makers, and don't really rely on hand eye co-ordination. I noticed Sahibzada Farhan last year, bowlers were giving him just short of a length deliveries at his body, and he was always timing them crisply to fielders.



Every hitter/wannabe hitter, I have seen from Pakistan, has looked kind of stiff at the crease. Whenever they move, they disturb their balance, and are unable to time the ball. A guy like Sharjeel khan didn't need to move much because of his hand eye coordination, but people like Sahibzada farhan and Rizwan hussain need to compensate their limitations by getting into good positions while stroking the ball. Take an example of Ronchi, he gets into such good positions and creates the right angles for his strokes. I feel that our players are far behind in this regard and lack awareness.

I don't like Imam UL Haq as a player but his improvement in technique has surely impressed me, same is the case with Shan Masood.
U Akmal and Shahzad never adapted, and they never will. Shahzad (although is getting runs) is still moving around in the crease for no reason and struggles to pierce the field with a safe grounded shot, while Umar Akmal is still vulnerable against spin.

The very fact that guys like Zeeshan Malik, Saif Badar, Muhammad Hasan (WK) and Saad Nasim (fairly okayish considering our local standards) is also not helping the cause.
 
In terms of limited overs and playing spin - I concur.

Saad Ali is a very good prospect in the longer format and should have already debuted by now.

However, don't see any potential young batsmen in the shorter formats.
 
Improve wickets in domestic cricket so that we can have confident hitting and stroke play playing batsmen once again.
 
Is he expecting to see batsmen coming out from the PSL, like really?

What is the domestic cricket for then if you will continue to keep on selecting the tried and tested failures?
 
Ahson8 said:
Lol. Zeeshan Malik, Saud Shakeel, Saif Badar don't play the tournament and then you wonder why this is the case.
Click to expand...

Why aren't they considered? I don't expect a foreign coach to know every player, but aren't there PCB selection committees who should be aware of talent in the domestic leagues?
 
T20 leagues aren’t for developing batters. We need to improve our first class pitches and domestic structure to improve our batting.
 
I think Arthur knows the reason because it's pretty bland in every ones face, domestic green mambas where bowler just need place the bowl in the right areas even at 125ks and the batsmen being **** scared of handling knee length horizontal movement. That's just not cricket which we are playing in the name of FC domestic season.
 
If you can't make sporting wickets than just shave off all the grass and let bowlers bowled their heart out in taking the wickets and at the same time batsmen will get more confidence in their stroke making and aerial hitting abilities and more importantly they will try to get daddy hundreds if the pitch has nothing in it. It's definitely a much better situation for both batsmen and real fast bowlers production.
 
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That's strange. How often are folk here on about the next stars on our "talent watch" thread or something? Then our PM has always told us of the amazing talent we have. I have always known the the tank is empty when it comes to talent. All the players we have tried over the years like Umar Amin have been a complete let down.
 
muhammad saad said:
If you can't make sporting wickets than just shave off all the grass and let bowlers bowled their heart out in taking the wickets and at the same time batsmen will get more confidence in their stroke making and aerial hitting abilities and more importantly they will try to get daddy hundreds if the pitch has nothing in it. It's definitely a much better situation for both batsmen and real fast bowlers production.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to think those flat roads we used to have in Pakistan weren't such a bad thing after all.

The batsmen spent hours at the crease gaining the ability to play long innings. A Younis Khan couldn't possibly come through on these green mambas that turn matches into a lottery with batsmen only focused on survival. Hardly anyone in domestic FC scores a double hundred now.

Bowlers had to work hard for their wickets, encouraging teams to play out and out quicks and not simply rely on conditions to do all the work.
 
If no new batsman is coming up, then give chance to those who are not new but have shown maturity and are inform and not too old, like Umar Amin, Akmal and Shehzad.
 
First get rid of all the oldies like Hafeez, Malik, Azhar, and Asad. 2019 WC should be Mickey's last assignment.
 
Dean Jones when asked this question commented that the Franchises were picking up batsmen among the foreign players category and were giving them chances in the top 4-5 while the Pakistani players being picked for the most part were the bowlers and young Pakistani players werent being given opportunities at the top of the order.

Even the Pakistani batsmen who have gotten a chance at the top are the well known players like Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam e.t.c.

You can't be complaining about not finding any new batsmen from the PSL in this scenario.
 
Well what can you expect. Nabi Gul was slotted in at no 11 yesterday for Peshawar with Umar Amin at number 10. Wahab riaz a classic tailender batted above them.

Ali Imran, Saud Shakeel, saad ali, so many others didn’t get chances at all. How can they prove themselves then.
 
Indeed, there's not enough good pakistani batsmen coming through in the tournament. That being said,
the performances may not reflect how a player might perform in the longer formats of the game, where they can play at a more comfortable pace, and where the demand isn't always to score at a strike rate of 100 and something.

This tournament may highlight how batsmen handle the pressure playing with other international cricketers, but may only be reflective of how they could perform in international t20's. But this shouldn't be used as the measuring stick to how they might do in ODI/Tests, they need the relevant experience in domestic cricket to play the longer formats of the game at international level.

Drawing on a comparison from another sport, you can't expect someone who's really good at pool to be really good at snooker, the demands of the game are completely different, the task is more difficult and players need a much longer attention span. Also with running, someone may be good at 100 meter sprints, but this doesn't reflect how they may do in a 3 lap race. Same goes with cricket, you can only judge the talent according to the game they play and the set of demands the format imposes.
 
Savak said:
Dean Jones when asked this question commented that the Franchises were picking up batsmen among the foreign players category and were giving them chances in the top 4-5 while the Pakistani players being picked for the most part were the bowlers and young Pakistani players werent being given opportunities at the top of the order.

Even the Pakistani batsmen who have gotten a chance at the top are the well known players like Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam e.t.c.

You can't be complaining about not finding any new batsmen from the PSL in this scenario.
Click to expand...

Pretty straight forward. I like this. I was against the idea of making him the national coach to replace mickey, because of his non existent coaching experience of an intl team and not to rush on the idea of judging him by just 4 weeks of t20 cricket. Now I’m convinced that he could do better than MA because he can point out the errors where it stems from, compared to MA who can’t figure out the reason and being clueless why there isn’t any young batsmen.
 
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