"Wearing Hijab Is Indiscipline": Karnataka Minister On Students' Protest

[MenInG]

New Delhi: On a petition linked to the hijab row raging in Karnataka, the Supreme Court today rejected an urgent hearing and said, "We will interfere only at an appropriate time."

A girl in Karnataka had approached the Supreme Court after the High Court yesterday advised students to avoid wearing "religious garments" until it decides on a case involving hijab restrictions in schools and colleges.

"Don't spread these things to a national level. We will interfere only at an appropriate time," Chief Justice NV Ramana said, declining an urgent hearing on the petition.

When a lawyer pressed the court to take it up, arguing that the case had "far-reaching implications" and that students had been wearing the hijab or head scarf for 10 years, the Supreme Court remained firm.

"Please do not spread it to larger levels. we know what is happening. Think over, is it proper to bring these things to Delhi? The national level? If there is anything wrong, we will protect..." Chief Justice Ramana said.

The girl's petition had challenged the Karnataka High Court's remarks that educational institutions in the state can open for now but with no religious clothing on campus, for the sake of peace.

Schools and colleges were shut down earlier this week in an escalating row over hijab restrictions in class. The protests that began against a hijab ban in one government-run college in Udupi spread to many other institutions where girls wearing hijabs were not allowed entry. As saffron scarf-wearing students launched rival protests, violence at one college forced the police to fire teargas to control the flare-up.

The Karnataka High Court is hearing a petition challenging hijab restrictions in colleges. Yesterday, a three-member bench said it would resume the hearing on Monday.

The student who has challenged the High Court's comments says in her appeal to the Supreme Court that practical exams begin on February 15 and "any interference on students' access to educational institutions will impede their education".

She argued that wearing the hijab is within the constitutional right of expression, right to privacy and "Freedom of Conscience", so the High Court order violates the constitution.

"The government has issued an order thereby denying entry to the Muslim Women wearing Hijab in the educational institutions. The impugned order creates an unreasonable classification between the non-Muslim female students and the Muslim female students and thereby is in straight violation of the concept of secularism which forms the basic structure of the Indian Constitution. The impugned order is also in sheer violation of Articles 14, 15, 19, 21 and 25 of the Indian Constitution and also violates the core principles of the International Conventions that India is a signatory to," her appeal to the Supreme Court said.

The Supreme Court had yesterday refused to take up another petition, filed by student Fathima Bushra, challenging the Karnataka government's order last week banning clothes which it said "disturb equality, integrity and public order".

"In the event of the administrative committee not selecting a uniform, clothes which disturb equality, integrity and public law and order should not be worn," the Karnataka government's order had said.

As Congress leader Kapil Sibal, a senior lawyer, urged the Supreme Court to take up Fathima Bushra's petition, saying the issue is "spreading across the country", Chief Justice Ramana had said: "We will see."

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/hij...preme-court-2762068#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll

 

[IAJ]

These indian muslims need to first convince their Hindu people that Hijab is an essential part of Islam.

The TV channel is working on it's on agenda, inviting people to suit it's agenda.

The big ulemas there need to take responsibility and make clear what role hijab/purdah has in Islam.

 

[Shariq7]

First of all, i dont need any excuses. The law prevails.

A girl cannot wear a hijab because its not part of the school uniform. Thats the rule. And unless a court in India over rules it, that rule remains.

The court may hold this rule unconstitutional under Articles 25 and 14 of the Indian Consitution.

Article 25 protects free practice of religion. Hijab is considered an integral part of the practice of Islam by many prominent schools of thought. Because it is an integral part, restriction on hijab-wearing violates the constitution's free exercise clause. However, in my understanding, minority Christian schools are exempt from this clause. Although, I haven't been able to find this exemption anywhere. Please enlighten me if something has more knowledge on this issue. Nevertheless, unless the schools in question are minority schools, any rule against hijab-wearing is against free exercise of religion and thus unconstitutional.

Article 14 ensures equal protection of law for every person. Therefore, different sections of society may not be treated disparately. For example, if there is protection for turbans for Sikhs in the constitution, Muslims cannot be prohibited from wearing the hijab. Thus, any such prohibition would be considered disparate treatment under the constitution and ruled unconstitutional.

Additionally, the enforcement of law (or a rule in this instance) cannot be arbitrary. For example, prohibiting Muslim girls from wearing a hijab two months before the exam when it was permitted the entire academic year would be arbitrary enforcement of the rule and thus unconstitutional.

Even though I understand the secular spirit of rules against the Hijab, nevertheless, it appears to be unconstitutional and should be struck down.

 

[MenInG]

For all the criticism that France gets for Hijab etc, good to see this.

==

France's gender equality minister threw her support on Thursday behind Muslim women footballers who are seeking to overturn a ban on players wearing headscarves on the pitch.

Rules set by the French Football Federation currently prevent players taking part in competitive matches from wearing "ostentatious" religious symbols such as Muslim headscarves or the Jewish kippa.

A women's collective known as "les Hijabeuses" launched a legal challenge to the rules in November last year, claiming they were discriminatory and infringed their right to practise their religion.

"The law says that these young women can wear a headscarf and play football. On football pitches today, headscarves are not forbidden. I want the law to be respected," Equality Minister Elisabeth Moreno told LCI television.

Two months from French presidential elections, the issue has become a talking point in a country that maintains a strict form of secularism that is meant to separate the state and religion.

The French Senate, which is dominated by the right-wing Republicans party, proposed a law in January that would have banned the wearing of obvious religious symbols in all competitive sports.

It was rejected in the lower house on Wednesday where President Emmanuel Macron's centrist Republic on the Move party and allies hold the majority.

Submission?

France's laws on secularism guarantee religious freedom to all citizens, and contain no provisions on banning the wearing of religious symbols in public spaces, with the exception of full-face coverings which were outlawed in 2010.

Employees of state institutions are also forbidden from displaying their religion, as are school children.

Many right-wing politicians in France want to widen restrictions on the headscarf, seeing it as a political statement in support of Islamism and an affront to French values.

In recent years, they have proposed banning mothers accompanying children on school trips from wearing headscarves, and have sought to proscribe the full-body swimsuit known as the burkini.

Eric Ciotti, a hard-right MP from the conservative Republicans party, said Wednesday that the refusal of Macron's party to support a ban on religious symbols in sport left "an awful aftertaste of submission."

"Everywhere Islamism wants to impose its rules," the ally of Republicans presidential candidate Valerie Pecresse said in parliament.

"The veil is a prison for women, an object of submission and a negation of the individual," he added to boos from the ruling party.

Moreno said Thursday that "in public space, women can dress as they like" before adding: "My fight is to protect those that are forced to wear the veil."

Demonstration

A planned demonstration by "les Hijabeuses" collective in front of the French parliament on Wednesday was banned by city authorities on security grounds.

"We feel all of this is a great injustice," Foune Diawara, a co-founder, told AFP in an interview in January. "We just want to play football. We're not pro-Hijab activists, just football fans."

In 2014, the International Football Association Board (IFAB) authorised women to wear headscarves in games after deciding that the hijab was a cultural rather than a religious symbol.

The French Football Federation argues that it is simply following French law, with the country's top constitutional court set to rule on the issue following the appeal from "les Hijabeuses".

https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...condemns-headscarf-ban-for-muslim-footballers

 

[MenInG]

Mumbai: Bollywood actress Kangana Ranaut, who in the early 2022 said that this year she wished for fewer police complaints and complaints, has gotten into yet another controversy.

The 'Tanu weds Manu' actress, who is no stranger to controversy, reacted to the ongoing row in Karnataka about whether female students should wear hijabs in educational institutions.

Kangana took to Instagram on Thursday night to share her opinion on the ongoing debate that erupted following the Karnataka government's announcement on February 5 requiring a dress code for all schools and colleges, banning clothes that "disturb equality, integrity, and public law and order".

In the Udupi district, female students from Government Girls PU college were allegedly denied entry because they wore hijab.

Kangana shared a post by author Anand Ranganathan and wrote, "If you want to show courage, show it by not wearing burqa in Afghanistan. Learn to break free, not cage yourself."

Former Rajya Sabha MP and veteran actress Shabana Azmi has responded to Kangana Ranaut.

Shabana shared Kangana's post on her official Instagram handle and asked, "Correct me if I'm wrong but Afghanistan is a theocratic state and when I last checked India was a secular democratic republic ?!!"

Earlier this week, Shabana's husband, veteran lyricist Javed Akhtar, also condemned the hijab controversy in India.

"I have never been in favour of Hijab or Burqa. I still stand by that, but at the same time, I have nothing but deep contempt for these mobs of hooligans who are trying to intimidate a small group of girls and that too unsuccessfully. Is this their idea of 'MANLINESS'. What a pity," Akhtar had tweeted.

Hijab controversy
The Supreme Court on Friday said it will protect the constitutional rights of every citizen and consider at an 'appropriate time' the petitions challenging a Karnataka High Court directive asking students not to wear religious clothing in educational institutions.

Senior advocate Devdutt Kamat, appearing for the students, told a bench headed by Chief Justice NV Ramana that the High Court order results in the "suspension of fundamental right to practice religion under Article 25 of the Constitution" and the petition be listed for hearing on Monday.

Referring to the ongoing hearing, the SC said, "We will protect the fundamental right of every citizen and will take it up at an appropriate time."

"We will see," the Chief Justice said when Kamat insisted on an urgent hearing.

On Thursday, the Karnataka High Court ruled that no religious symbols should be worn by students until its final order, thus prohibiting both hijab and saffron shawls on school and college premises.

"We want to make an interim order on the matter of hijab row. Peace has to return to the state. Schools and colleges must open soon. This is not the final order. Until the final order is given, students must attend the schools in uniform without hijab or saffron shawls," Chief Justice Ritu Raj Awasthi, who is heading a three-judge bench hearing the matter, said.

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...rqa-in-afghanistan-says-kangana-ranaut/857826

 

[MenInG]

New Delhi: Protests in Karnataka over college students being denied the right to wear a hijab were flagged Thursday by Manchester United footballer Paul Pogba, who shared an Instagram story - "Hindutva mobs continue to harass Muslim girls wearing Hijab to college in India".
Pogba, a French national whose mother is Muslim and who started practising Islam in 2019, shared a 58-second reel originally posted by the London-based _islamismydeen_ Instagram handle.

The clip begins with a massive crowd of boys and men wearing (or waving) saffron scarves and surrounding a small group of young girls wearing hijabs. The mob, which numbers several dozen male individuals at least, can be heard shouting and chanting as the dust rises from the scuffle.

A few other men seem to be holding hands to form a protective barrier around the girls, and there seem to be only two police personnel in sight.

The clip then shows a young woman, presumably a school teacher, warily unlatching a classroom door after which dozens of boys draped in yet more saffron scarves and cheering storm inside.

The third part shows yet more boys - by this time there seem to be hundreds - waving saffron flags and dancing and cheering as they move down a street.

It is unclear when and where each of the clips was shot.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/kar...gba-flags-hijab-protests-on-instagram-2762092

 

[Itachi]

"Don't spread these things to a national level. We will interfere only at an appropriate time," Chief Justice NV Ramana said, declining an urgent hearing on the petition."

Appreciated the Supreme Court standing on this as media is trying to give it more attention than it is required. This is a localized issue and portraying it as some kind of national one is unwanted.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The court may hold this rule unconstitutional under Articles 25 and 14 of the Indian Consitution.

Article 25 protects free practice of religion. Hijab is considered an integral part of the practice of Islam by many prominent schools of thought. Because it is an integral part, restriction on hijab-wearing violates the constitution's free exercise clause. However, in my understanding, minority Christian schools are exempt from this clause. Although, I haven't been able to find this exemption anywhere. Please enlighten me if something has more knowledge on this issue. Nevertheless, unless the schools in question are minority schools, any rule against hijab-wearing is against free exercise of religion and thus unconstitutional.

Article 14 ensures equal protection of law for every person. Therefore, different sections of society may not be treated disparately. For example, if there is protection for turbans for Sikhs in the constitution, Muslims cannot be prohibited from wearing the hijab. Thus, any such prohibition would be considered disparate treatment under the constitution and ruled unconstitutional.

Additionally, the enforcement of law (or a rule in this instance) cannot be arbitrary. For example, prohibiting Muslim girls from wearing a hijab two months before the exam when it was permitted the entire academic year would be arbitrary enforcement of the rule and thus unconstitutional.

Even though I understand the secular spirit of rules against the Hijab, nevertheless, it appears to be unconstitutional and should be struck down.

If wearing the hijab is an obligatory and essential practice of Islam, then article 25 applies, else not. Scholars have appeared on media saying that there are only 5 essential practices in Islam and hijab isnt one of them. The essential practice is to dress modestly.

According to the school these very students were coming to the college without hijab till December and a certain political party intervened.

If Hijab is proven to an essential and obligatory practice for Muslims, then ofcourse article 25 prevails. But even in that till what extent religious practices be allowed in a public institution. Tomorrow they may demand to wear abaya. Day after a room to offer namaz. Then a day off on Friday to go the mosque. Should article 25 be extended to all of this?

 

[IMMY69]

First of all, i dont need any excuses. The law prevails.

A girl cannot wear a hijab because its not part of the school uniform. Thats the rule. And unless a court in India over rules it, that rule remains.

1. Girls were wearing hijab before so why suddenly they are stopped from wearing them?
2. Precedent has been set or is that there should be one law for Sikhs and another for Muslims?

 

[Major]

So.... Objections should be raised only when it is about religion but forget it when it is for personal freedom and choice of what to wear.

Not a strong argument I might say.

exactly.

Same people offended here would be offended if someone wore shorts or if females wore leggings or tshirts.

Most of them dont even believe in the concept of freedom of choosing what to wear and yet have an issue when another country also limits that freedom..

Ironically, both the Indian govt and Pakistani people believe that people shouldn't have the freedom to wear what they want, only issue is which clothing should be allowed.

Because to each of them one or another type of clothing seems indecent in public...

 

[IAJ]

If wearing the hijab is an obligatory and essential practice of Islam, then article 25 applies, else not. Scholars have appeared on media saying that there are only 5 essential practices in Islam and hijab isnt one of them. The essential practice is to dress modestly.

According to the school these very students were coming to the college without hijab till December and a certain political party intervened.

If Hijab is proven to an essential and obligatory practice for Muslims, then ofcourse article 25 prevails. But even in that till what extent religious practices be allowed in a public institution. Tomorrow they may demand to wear abaya. Day after a room to offer namaz. Then a day off on Friday to go the mosque. Should article 25 be extended to all of this?

There is scholarly consensus that Hijab is obligatory. There is no doubt about that. If you want the answer you have to ask qualified scholars about this matter. You have both Brailly and Deoband in India, what are their stance on this?

You can't ask ordinary women/men (like myself) about details in Islam. You need to ask the real experts, like in every other profession you ask the specialists.

And wearing hijab can complete the uniform, so there is no issue there at all. This is pure hatred towards muslims. And even some of the muslims in India are not understanding this.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Wait. I thought Hijab is not mandatory in Islam? So Tabilan were implementing Islam as is all along?

 

[MenInG]

Wait. I thought Hijab is not mandatory in Islam? So Tabilan were implementing Islam as is all along?

If you are genuinely interested in learning, then you can find the answer yourself on Google.

 

[IMMY69]

Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair too in public.

So if Sikhs are allowed to wear turbans at school and assuming this is now law then so should a muslim and jewish girl be allowed to cover their hair in schools in India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There is scholarly consensus that Hijab is obligatory. There is no doubt about that. If you want the answer you have to ask qualified scholars about this matter. You have both Brailly and Deoband in India, what are their stance on this?

You can't ask ordinary women/men (like myself) about details in Islam. You need to ask the real experts, like in every other profession you ask the specialists.

And wearing hijab can complete the uniform, so there is no issue there at all. This is pure hatred towards muslims. And even some of the muslims in India are not understanding this.

Scholars are divided.

One says Hijab is obligatory.

The other side says only following 5 things are obligatory. That the rest are not compulsory.


Shahdah
Salah
Sawm
Zakat
Hajj

Forgive me if i spelt them wrongly and i mean no disrespect.




There is no hatred. If its proven in court that Hijab is obligatory then article 25 will apply. But even article 25 has limits. And the court will have to answer the following things as well.

But even in that till what extent religious practices be allowed in a public institution. Tomorrow they may demand to wear abaya. Day after a room to offer namaz. Then a day off on Friday to go the mosque. Should article 25 be extended to all of this?

 

[IAJ]

Scholars are divided.

One says Hijab is obligatory.

The other side says only following 5 things are obligatory. That the rest are not compulsory.


Shahdah
Salah
Sawm
Zakat
Hajj

Forgive me if i spelt them wrongly and i mean no disrespect.




There is no hatred. If its proven in court that Hijab is obligatory then article 25 will apply. But even article 25 has limits. And the court will have to answer the following things as well.

But even in that till what extent religious practices be allowed in a public institution. Tomorrow they may demand to wear abaya. Day after a room to offer namaz. Then a day off on Friday to go the mosque. Should article 25 be extended to all of this?

So? Isn't India a democratic and secular country? You need to differ between what people demand and what they actually will be allowed to. Every person should have right to make these demands, then it's up to the respective authorities to decide wheter they will meet the demands or not.

I know you are saying court should decide the matter and I haved that in mind as well when giving the statement in first passage.

And you say scholars are divided on this issue. Will you please name some recognized shcolars who say hijab is not mandatory?

 

[IndoorCricket]

If you are genuinely interested in learning, then you can find the answer yourself on Google.

Well. Cant you answer it? I don't know the authentic sources. If you can point to authentic sources I would have a look.

 

[IAJ]

Well. Cant you answer it? I don't know the authentic sources. If you can point to authentic sources I would have a look.

https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/what-are-the-requirements-of-hijab/

 

[LaLoco]

Great, Hindutva are dictating and deciding what Islam is and the importance of Hijab should a women chose to wear one.


A Hijab has tickled their nerve, just imagine, an article of clothing on a female head - lol

[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION], still not able to grab the concept of public decency?

 

[IndoorCricket]

https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/what-are-the-requirements-of-hijab/

It does say its required outside of prayer and during prayer too. So I can conclude its mandatory for women. All these muslim women fighting against hijab and stating it as a choice should read their holy book once.

 

[Rajdeep]

PM Modi: Opposition coming up with new ways to stand in way of Muslim women’s rights

Prime Minister Narendra Modi said Thursday that Opposition parties, worried by “the support for BJP among Muslim women” following the ban on triple talaq, “have been coming up with new ways to stand in the way of their rights and aspirations”.

Addressing an election rally in Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh, Modi said: “Muslim daughters understand our good intentions. We freed them from the clutches of triple talaq. The law against triple talaq has given a sense of security to Muslim women.”

“When Muslim daughters began supporting BJP, putting up videos of their appreciation of the party, some people, who consider themselves thekedar of some votes, lost their sleep. They became anxious that their own daughters are now doing Modi, Modi,” he said.

These “thekedar”, he said, are “doing everything to stop Muslim daughters from supporting Modi. The BJP stands with every suffering Muslim woman to keep them safe, so the Yogi government is necessary,” he said while campaigning for the return of his party and the Yogi Adityanath government in the state.

https://indianexpress.com/article/c...rally-yogi-adityanath-assembly-polls-7765770/

https://youtu.be/AtmjCXM1yEM

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Great, Hindutva are dictating and deciding what Islam is and the importance of Hijab should a women chose to wear one.


A Hijab has tickled their nerve, just imagine, an article of clothing on a female head - lol

[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION], still not able to grab the concept of public decency?

He is worried about his shorts.

He advocates Muslim females to have the freedom of wearing leggings while they look at his shorts during school days (what a yearning) - but he seems to have an issue when Muslim females exercise the right to freedom and elect to chose wearing a Hijab, that is "head covering", but Major thinks it means hiding the face.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

PM Modi: Opposition coming up with new ways to stand in way of Muslim women’s rights

Prime Minister Narendra Modi said Thursday that Opposition parties, worried by “the support for BJP among Muslim women” following the ban on triple talaq, “have been coming up with new ways to stand in the way of their rights and aspirations”.

Addressing an election rally in Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh, Modi said: “Muslim daughters understand our good intentions. We freed them from the clutches of triple talaq. The law against triple talaq has given a sense of security to Muslim women.”

“When Muslim daughters began supporting BJP, putting up videos of their appreciation of the party, some people, who consider themselves thekedar of some votes, lost their sleep. They became anxious that their own daughters are now doing Modi, Modi,” he said.

These “thekedar”, he said, are “doing everything to stop Muslim daughters from supporting Modi. The BJP stands with every suffering Muslim woman to keep them safe, so the Yogi government is necessary,” he said while campaigning for the return of his party and the Yogi Adityanath government in the state.

https://indianexpress.com/article/c...rally-yogi-adityanath-assembly-polls-7765770/

https://youtu.be/AtmjCXM1yEM

So Modi calls Muslim females as his "daughters"?
Which Muslim father does not support his daughter if she decides to wear Hijab?

 

[cricketjoshila]

So? Isn't India a democratic and secular country? You need to differ between what people demand and what they actually will be allowed to. Every person should have right to make these demands, then it's up to the respective authorities to decide wheter they will meet the demands or not.

I know you are saying court should decide the matter and I haved that in mind as well when giving the statement in first passage.

And you say scholars are divided on this issue. Will you please name some recognized shcolars who say hijab is not mandatory?

No. The country cannot function with religious demands of everyone. There is one uniform rule and thats that. Institutions cannot bend according to the rules of one religion or the other.

The head and professor of islamic studies of Mumbai University, St Xavier's College Zeenat Shaukat Ali was on Tv yesterday. She repeated the same. That Quran prescribed modest dressing, but not hijab.

Dr Asma Lamrabet, Director of Studies and research center of women issues in Islam, Morocco. She talked about something called the "Khimar" .

 

[LaLoco]

No. The country cannot function with religious demands of everyone. There is one uniform rule and thats that. Institutions cannot bend according to the rules of one religion or the other.

The head and professor of islamic studies of Mumbai University, St Xavier's College Zeenat Shaukat Ali was on Tv yesterday. She repeated the same. That Quran prescribed modest dressing, but not hijab.

Dr Asma Lamrabet, Director of Studies and research center of women issues in Islam, Morocco. She talked about something called the "Khimar" .

HAHA lol


Country can, countries are, and countries will continue to.

USA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA, GERMANY, UK, to name the few

rest is hogwash - less dictating on Islam and what Hijab mean and more looking inward may help you appear less of an intolerant.

 

[IAJ]

No. The country cannot function with religious demands of everyone. There is one uniform rule and thats that. Institutions cannot bend according to the rules of one religion or the other.

The head and professor of islamic studies of Mumbai University, St Xavier's College Zeenat Shaukat Ali was on Tv yesterday. She repeated the same. That Quran prescribed modest dressing, but not hijab.

Dr Asma Lamrabet, Director of Studies and research center of women issues in Islam, Morocco. She talked about something called the "Khimar" .

1. I am talking about rights to ask or demand, every one can ask a question or is that not allowed in India?

2 and 3. Quran mentions word 'khumor' (pluran of khimar) and you need to understand the meaning by reading the exegesis of renowned scholars who also uses the chains of Ahadeeth (sayings and teachings of the Prophet (pbuh). And there are clear consensus on this matter that this means head-covering.

There will always be people who try to interpret the Quran on their own and that can be dangerous if you don't have proper knowledge. At least, whenever in doubt I will go to a reliable scholar and ask him.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Hijab are banned in public spaces in

France
Belgium
Austria
Netherlands
Denmark
Bulgaria
Congo
Chad
Gabon
Tajikistan
Senegal
Sri Lanka
All countries in Europe banned the attire in the last decade.
Austria banned the burqa in 2017,
Belgium in 2015
Bulgaria in 2016
Denmark in 2018
France in 2010, the
Netherlands in 2012
Switzerland in 2021

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Norway has banned the burqa in educational institutes.
Sweden has banned it in 2 municipalities - Skurup and Staffanstorp.
China banned the burqa in the Islamic area of Xinjiang in 2017.
Russia's Stavropol region has had a ban on hijabs in schools Since 2012.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

The Sri Lankan government banned all types of clothing covering the face, including the burqa and niqab, on 29 April 2019 following the Easter terror attack.

In 2015, following a suicide attack by women dressed in religious garments, Cameroon banned it in the Far North region.

Following a double suicide bombing on 15 June 2015 which killed 33 people in N'Djamena, the Chadian government announced on 17 June 2015 the banning of the wearing of the burqa in its territory for security reasons.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

It's not just the European nations that have banned the attire - Tunisia in 2019 banned the wearing of the niqab in public institutions citing security reasons. Morocco bans the attire in its military and also has ban on manufacturing and sale of burqa.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It does say its required outside of prayer and during prayer too. So I can conclude its mandatory for women. All these muslim women fighting against hijab and stating it as a choice should read their holy book once.

It is obligatory in the religion.

However there is no compulsion in the religion so you can't force someone to fulfil their obligations.

If a woman stands up and says she doesn't want to wear it then thats her right, similarly if a woman stands and says she wants to wear it then she has the right too.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's not just the European nations that have banned the attire - Tunisia in 2019 banned the wearing of the niqab in public institutions citing security reasons. Morocco bans the attire in its military and also has ban on manufacturing and sale of burqa.

You are mixing the burqa and hijab. Is this deliberate or are you confused between the two?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Hijab are banned in public spaces in

France
Belgium
Austria
Netherlands
Denmark
Bulgaria
Congo
Chad
Gabon
Tajikistan
Senegal
Sri Lanka
All countries in Europe banned the attire in the last decade.
Austria banned the burqa in 2017,
Belgium in 2015
Bulgaria in 2016
Denmark in 2018
France in 2010, the
Netherlands in 2012
Switzerland in 2021

Idiocy has no bounds, does it?

"There are currently 16 states that have banned the burqa (not to be confused with the hijab)"

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Afghanistan and Iran are the only countries where the hijab is compulsory

Many states in India banned Hijab in Educational institutes including Kerala.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Idiocy has no bounds, does it?

I was listed Hijab banned countries in public places, what's wrong?

 

[LaLoco]

It's not just the European nations that have banned the attire - Tunisia in 2019 banned the wearing of the niqab in public institutions citing security reasons. Morocco bans the attire in its military and also has ban on manufacturing and sale of burqa.

I understand my posts to most of the followers of Hindutva sound rude and confronting but that is because posts such as yours.

Do you all wake up in the morning and decide to be this daft, I mean collectively, not just one of you or few of you, it is a collective effort among Hindutva clan to daily find a way to put down Muslims of India - why so much ignorance and hate?

Bhai, if you are going to weaponize ignorance and discrimination against a particular group then at least educated yourself in that topic little bit before making a fool out of yourself.

We have followers of Hindutva telling us the importance of Hijab - Hindutva followers are dictating the importance of Hijab to Muslim female.

you all on different level with inherited hate and discrimination against Muslim - it will never end in India for generation to come.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

I understand my posts to most of the followers of Hindutva sound rude and confronting but that is because posts such as yours.

Do you all wake up in the morning and decide to be this daft, I mean collectively, not just one of you or few of you, it is a collective effort among Hindutva clan to daily find a way to put down Muslims of India - why so much ignorance and hate?

Bhai, if you are going to weaponize ignorance and discrimination against a particular group then at least educated yourself in that topic little bit before making a fool out of yourself.

We have followers of Hindutva telling us the importance of Hijab - Hindutva followers are dictating the importance of Hijab to Muslim female.

you all on different level with inherited hate and discrimination against Muslim - it will never end in India for generation to come.

I don't see any point except Hindutva..Hindutva..Hindutva rants

 

[LaLoco]

I don't see any point except Hindutva..Hindutva..Hindutva rants

of course! but thanks for letting us live rent free in your head, it is sadly and pathetically entertaining at times.

 

[Major]

He is worried about his shorts.

He advocates Muslim females to have the freedom of wearing leggings while they look at his shorts during school days (what a yearning) - but he seems to have an issue when Muslim females exercise the right to freedom and elect to chose wearing a Hijab, that is "head covering", but Major thinks it means hiding the face.

I never had issue with what females have to wear. I advocate for freedom to wear what you want, be it a bhurka or shorts.
Its you who has an issue with people having freedom as you said before that some societies might take it as indecent. While at the same time you argue with Indian posters regarding Bhurka... You still dont see the irony in your argument.

 

[Major]

I don't see any point except Hindutva..Hindutva..Hindutva rants

he will bash hindutva, but he himself doesnt believe in freedom to wear what you want as some clothings are indecent to him

 

[LaLoco]

he will bash hindutva, but he himself doesnt believe in freedom to wear what you want as some clothings are indecent to him

what got into your shorts?

You are displaying the characteristic signs of arrogantly ignorance.

No poster on this thread has said anything against the "freedom to wear", rather, explained the concept of "public decency" which varies from society to society, a normal cultural concept that is widely accepted as a norm and absolutely nothing maligned about it, which you've malignly, attempted to equate with Hijab.

No one believe on this forum that you are incapable of comprehending such a basic concept but it is easily recognizable that your arrogance and wish to appear different than the rest of the Pakistan would make you collect the left over of any Hindutva followers ( I mean you are coming at the concept by tagging a person who is incapable of distinguish between Hijab and Burka).

If you were to reply, I wish you don't because there is absolutely no need for me to tickle your arrogant ego, but if you do then please do not come back with, "freedom to wear" - lol

 

[Kroll]

Let’s be honest, this is nothing to do with so called freedom to wear or school uniforms or some other obfuscation.

It’s all to do with hate, Hindutva think the Muskim females are easy targets, first it was some rubbish like buy a sulli now they’ve latched onto hijab.

But these young Muslim females are not going to take it without putting up a fight. They have to commended for not cowing to such provocation.

 

[LaLoco]

Let’s be honest, this is nothing to do with so called freedom to wear or school uniforms or some other obfuscation.

It’s all to do with hate, Hindutva think the Muskim females are easy targets, first it was some rubbish like buy a sulli now they’ve latched onto hijab.

But these young Muslim females are not going to take it without putting up a fight. They have to commended for not cowing to such provocation.

Many followers of Modi has attempted to project the idea of this as congress attempt to maligned BJP.

All I see same sized, same length and same cut saffron color scarfs on every anti-Hijab protestors. Most of are students - which store did they go to buy all these scarfs unless it was handed out to them?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I never had issue with what females have to wear. I advocate for freedom to wear what you want, be it a bhurka or shorts.
Its you who has an issue with people having freedom as you said before that some societies might take it as indecent. While at the same time you argue with Indian posters regarding Bhurka... You still dont see the irony in your argument.

I don't because you can not point me to where I have an argument with any indians about Bhurka.

 

[cricketjoshila]

HAHA lol


Country can, countries are, and countries will continue to.

USA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA, GERMANY, UK, to name the few

rest is hogwash - less dictating on Islam and what Hijab mean and more looking inward may help you appear less of an intolerant.

Less dictation on what India should do or not do and more thinking about Pakistan will help you.

India cant and wont. Unless a practice is absolutely mandatory without which the person ceases to be a muslim or Hindu or Sikh kr christian, it wont be allowed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It is obligatory in the religion.

However there is no compulsion in the religion so you can't force someone to fulfil their obligations.

If a woman stands up and says she doesn't want to wear it then thats her right, similarly if a woman stands and says she wants to wear it then she has the right too.

Obligatory means compulsion. Without it the person may not be called a muslim.

 

[IAJ]

Obligatory means compulsion. Without it the person may not be called a muslim.

Calm down a bit. Do you even know what you are saying? You can’t start making takfir just like that. Performing the prayers 5 times is obligatory. A person who does not pray will not become a disbeliever according to the vast majority of legal scholars. He will be a sinful believer though.

 

[Major]

Obligatory means compulsion. Without it the person may not be called a muslim.

its sad and pathetic that living in a country that has multi religions you dont have ounce of knowledge about the religion that has people of large population and shows how poorly Indians are integrated.

You need to be careful what you say.

While fulfilling the obligations of the pillar of Islam is necessary, but a believer who does not do them does not become a non Muslim as you have claimed. It only makes the person sinful.

Your post shows how little you know about things and yet publish posts

 

[Salma_T]

7 pages on on what women should and shouldn't be allowed. Non Muslims want to "free" Muslims and yet they do it by targeting the marginalised Muslim women. India under its current government is full of hate for Muslims....how does a cloth covering one's hair impact anything? I am sick of India's hate towards Muslims, sick the of world's silence on this matter and using women to make a point. 7 pages of going around in circles....just admit India has a major problem and it needs to be addressed.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Looks like even some clerics explained the students and their parents that it was okay to remove hijabs in the classroom. But students were adamant with the backing of extremist group CFI. Apparently these girls joined CFI in December and in Jan they started this issue. These religious nutjobs are to blame. Disrupting communal harmony just to consolidate vote base.

https://theprint.in/india/viral-pho...side-story-of-karnatakas-hijab-crisis/827262/

 

[cricketjoshila]

its sad and pathetic that living in a country that has multi religions you dont have ounce of knowledge about the religion that has people of large population and shows how poorly Indians are integrated.

You need to be careful what you say.

While fulfilling the obligations of the pillar of Islam is necessary, but a believer who does not do them does not become a non Muslim as you have claimed. It only makes the person sinful.

Your post shows how little you know about things and yet publish posts

I am merely stating the requirements under article 25 of the constitution. It only protects such things, which are obligatory in a religion and the person cease to be a follower of that religion of he doesn't abide by it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

7 pages on on what women should and shouldn't be allowed. Non Muslims want to "free" Muslims and yet they do it by targeting the marginalised Muslim women. India under its current government is full of hate for Muslims....how does a cloth covering one's hair impact anything? I am sick of India's hate towards Muslims, sick the of world's silence on this matter and using women to make a point. 7 pages of going around in circles....just admit India has a major problem and it needs to be addressed.

India is run by a constitution and not by islamic law. What is required or not required by islamic law has no significance unless it conflicts with article 25 of the constitution.

Article 25 only sets in if a obligation in a religion is being not allowed. Else if hijab is allowed, tommorow demand will be to allow abaya. Next will be to allow namaz in school. Then the demand will be to declare friday as a holiday to offer prayers in a mosque. A country cant be run according to rules and demands of a religion. Rules have to be uniform for everyone. If the uniform dress code says no religious attire then it means no religious attire for everyone.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Calm down a bit. Do you even know what you are saying? You can’t start making takfir just like that. Performing the prayers 5 times is obligatory. A person who does not pray will not become a disbeliever according to the vast majority of legal scholars. He will be a sinful believer though.

I stated the facts as per article 25. I explained it in my post above. Its not only for Islam but for all religions.

Now that you have brought in the question of praying 5 times a day, should the institutions also allow for breaks to pray during the work hours? Should they also give them separate space to pray?

Because as was being explained, praying 5 times is "Farz or Fard" in Islam and not following it incurs bigger sin than not using hijab which is not a farz or farz? I got this from a tv debate, so forgive me if i am wrong.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Looks like even some clerics explained the students and their parents that it was okay to remove hijabs in the classroom. But students were adamant with the backing of extremist group CFI. Apparently these girls joined CFI in December and in Jan they started this issue. These religious nutjobs are to blame. Disrupting communal harmony just to consolidate vote base.

https://theprint.in/india/viral-pho...side-story-of-karnatakas-hijab-crisis/827262/

PFI will go the SIMI way and get banned ultimately.

 

[Itachi]

Calm down a bit. Do you even know what you are saying? You can’t start making takfir just like that. Performing the prayers 5 times is obligatory. A person who does not pray will not become a disbeliever according to the vast majority of legal scholars. He will be a sinful believer though.

So should Muslims be allowed to pray amidst the working hours for 5 times (or the number that falls within his work hours) if the Muslim workers wants it?

 

[Salma_T]

India as a nation wants to compete with Western nations and on a whole most western countries allow students to pray during breaks if they wish, as do many corporates. It is called being inclusive, India as a nation is going backwards in regards to their treatment of minorities.....either bite the bullet and change your constitution and become a Hindu nation (like Nepal) or continue being the world's largest democracy. As currently your nation is far from being a democracy!

I am not going to get into the article this and that....when you are democracy as India keeps telling us.....all citizens need rights!

 

[Salma_T]

So should Muslims be allowed to pray amidst the working hours for 5 times (or the number that falls within his work hours) if the Muslim workers wants it?

Yes many Muslims who pray are allowed by most companies to pray during work hours. On Friday many are given extra time for Friday prayers and you make up the time. I know in Ramadhan I have finished early as I was fasting to get home....but I started early/worked through lunch. So what you are "fearing" will ruining work places or schools is already happening. The company I worked for has a skiing trip which falls during ramadan and after staff made them aware....they have made sure there is food sehri/iftar and prayer spaces available. You hear of similar situations in schools.

 

[Itachi]

Yes many Muslims who pray are allowed by most companies to pray during work hours. On Friday many are given extra time for Friday prayers and you make up the time. I know in Ramadhan I have finished early as I was fasting to get home....but I started early/worked through lunch. So what you are "fearing" will ruining work places or schools is already happening. The company I worked for has a skiing trip which falls during ramadan and after staff made them aware....they have made sure there is food sehri/iftar and prayer spaces available. You hear of similar situations in schools.

You are talking about MNCs which does provide incentives such as skiing trip as you've mentioned and allowing someone to pray during that time is unusual.

I work in a public sector. We have to work through out lunch and extra even after working hours as pressure of work is immense. Same goes for banking sector and other financial institutions.

So in these cases, non muslims should skip lunch/any rest that one may take to overcompensate the loss of work hours that will occur when some muslims workers will go for pray multiple times.

It may be happening in some schools but it isn't occurring in public sector (the CCS ruling doesn't include that) nor in schools it is occurring. What you stated was just localized accommodation and not a wide spread phenomenon.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India as a nation wants to compete with Western nations and on a whole most western countries allow students to pray during breaks if they wish, as do many corporates. It is called being inclusive, India as a nation is going backwards in regards to their treatment of minorities.....either bite the bullet and change your constitution and become a Hindu nation (like Nepal) or continue being the world's largest democracy. As currently your nation is far from being a democracy!

I am not going to get into the article this and that....when you are democracy as India keeps telling us.....all citizens need rights!

All citizens have equal rights. No one is allowed to have breaks to pray or indulge in religious activities unless ofcourse its something like Id Diwali Christmas Baisakhi etc.

 

[Itachi]

India as a nation wants to compete with Western nations and on a whole most western countries allow students to pray during breaks if they wish, as do many corporates. It is called being inclusive, India as a nation is going backwards in regards to their treatment of minorities.....either bite the bullet and change your constitution and become a Hindu nation (like Nepal) or continue being the world's largest democracy. As currently your nation is far from being a democracy!

I am not going to get into the article this and that....when you are democracy as India keeps telling us.....all citizens need rights!

In democracy, people vote for candidates and then the candidate which gets majority gets elected. Every vote from each citizen has equal weight. It isn't like each hindu votes are count as 2 and each muslim votes are count as 1. I don't see how above violates democracy.

 

[Itachi]

All citizens have equal rights. No one is allowed to have breaks to pray or indulge in religious activities unless ofcourse its something like Id Diwali Christmas Baisakhi etc.

Include the Islamic holidays too. Or otherwise people will cry for discrimination without knowing the details.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Include the Islamic holidays too. Or otherwise people will cry for discrimination without knowing the details.

Included Id already

 

[cricketjoshila]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/food-drink/nyc-schools-vegan-lunch-fridays.amp

NY public schools will now have only vegan options every friday. Is this undemocratic and against the rights?

 

[Salma_T]

You are talking about MNCs which does provide incentives such as skiing trip as you've mentioned and allowing someone to pray during that time is unusual.

I work in a public sector. We have to work through out lunch and extra even after working hours as pressure of work is immense. Same goes for banking sector and other financial institutions.

So in these cases, non muslims should skip lunch/any rest that one may take to overcompensate the loss of work hours that will occur when some muslims workers will go for pray multiple times.

It may be happening in some schools but it isn't occurring in public sector (the CCS ruling doesn't include that) nor in schools it is occurring. What you stated was just localized accommodation and not a wide spread phenomenon.

It happens in the public sector too in the UK and Australia. Most places get breaks and how you use your breaks is up to you. Pr
Namaz take a total of 20 mins during the work day depending of the season/location. The excuses you have listed are pathetic that Muslims will be a burden on an office if they chose to pray namaz. In the UK during the winter you would pray 3 at work and in the summer it is 1 pray.

 

[Salma_T]

Include the Islamic holidays too. Or otherwise people will cry for discrimination without knowing the details.

Not sure where you live but a quick google search shows that both Eids are public holidays in India.

 

[MenInG]

'Hijab Bans in Schools Violate Religious Freedom': US On Karnataka Row

New Delhi: A US government body that monitors and reports on religious freedom abroad has criticised Karnataka amid the row over Muslim students' demand for wearing hijab on campus.

Rashad Hussain, the Ambassador at Large for International Religious Freedom, or IRF, tweeted "hijab bans in schools violate religious freedom", referring to the controversy in Karnataka that has prompted the state government to keep schools and colleges shut till the high court completes looking into petitions on the hijab ban.

"Religious freedom includes the ability to choose one's religious attire. The Indian state of Karnataka should not determine permissibility of religious clothing. Hijab bans in schools violate religious freedom and stigmatize and marginalize women and girls," Mr Hussain's office tweeted.

The Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom of which Mr Hussain is an ambassador comes under the US Office of International Religious Freedom, which has in the past commented on tensions along religious lines in India.

The Karnataka High Court has said it would resume hearing petitions challenging the hijab restrictions on Monday. The high court in its interim order today said no religious attire, whether shawls or hijab, will be allowed inside educational institutions.

The protests that began last week against a hijab ban in one government-run college in the coastal town Udupi spread to many other institutions where girls wearing hijabs were not allowed entry. As saffron scarf-wearing students launched counter protests, violence at one college forced the police to fire teargas to control the flare-up.

India is yet to respond to Mr Hussain's comments on the hijab row in Karnataka.

Mr Hussain was appointed Ambassador-at-Large for IRF by the US Senate in December last year. He is the first Muslim Ambassador-at-Large for IRF. He previously held several high-level positions in the US government including serving as the Special Envoy to the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation during the Obama administration.

https://www.ndtv.com/karnataka-news...ious-freedom-says-us-on-karnataka-row-2763825

 

[Itachi]

It happens in the public sector too in the UK and Australia. Most places get breaks and how you use your breaks is up to you. Pr
Namaz take a total of 20 mins during the work day depending of the season/location. The excuses you have listed are pathetic that Muslims will be a burden on an office if they chose to pray namaz. In the UK during the winter you would pray 3 at work and in the summer it is 1 pray.

India is different. Corporate structure of public sectors or financial institutions are different across first world country and third world country. Schools systems are also different.

In India, the public sector and the banking one is already under staff and working beyond memo of distribution of work. What may hold true for US or UK may not be same for another country.

I am surprised you are are comparing US/UK against third world over populated country as India.

 

[MenInG]

US gets involved and India predictable reaction

==

New Delhi: Amid a global uproar on the hijab row, India today said that motivated comments on internal issues not welcome. Muslim students in several Karnataka colleges are demanding that they be allowed to attend classes wearing a hijab.

External Affairs Ministry spokesperson Arindam Bagchi said that those who know India well would have a proper appreciation of the realities.

"A matter regarding dress code in some educational institutions in the State of Karnataka is under judicial examination by the Hon'ble High Court of Karnataka. Our constitutional framework and mechanisms, as well as our democratic ethos and polity, are the context in which issues are considered and resolved," Mr Bagchi said in a statement.

"Those who know India well would have a proper appreciation of those realities," he added.

Mr Bagchi's response came when asked by the media about comments by some countries on dress code in some educational institutions in Karnataka.

Yesterday, a US government body that monitors and reports on religious freedom abroad had criticised Karnataka.

Rashad Hussain, the Ambassador at Large for International Religious Freedom, or IRF, tweeted "hijab bans in schools violate religious freedom", referring to the controversy in Karnataka that has prompted the state government to keep schools and colleges shut till the high court completes looking into petitions on the hijab ban.

Mr Hussain was appointed Ambassador-at-Large for IRF by the US Senate in December last year. He is the first Muslim Ambassador-at-Large for IRF. He previously held several high-level positions in the US government including serving as the Special Envoy to the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation during the Obama administration.

The hijab row started in Karnataka in December-end when a few students of a government pre-university college in Udupi who attended classes wearing headscarves were asked to leave the campus.

The matter then spread to different parts of the state, with youngsters, backed by right-wing outfits, responding by wearing saffron scarves.

With the protests taking a violent turn at some places earlier this week, the state government on Tuesday declared a three-day holiday for the institutions.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mot...n-hijab-row-2764193#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll

 

[Salma_T]

India is different. Corporate structure of public sectors or financial institutions are different across first world country and third world country. Schools systems are also different.

In India, the public sector and the banking one is already under staff and working beyond memo of distribution of work. What may hold true for US or UK may not be same for another country.

I am surprised you are are comparing US/UK against third world over populated country as India.

Not shining India that is being portrayed by Indians?
India wants a seat at the table with the big boys maybe at least legislate to get similar protections....doesn't take the west to change who their favoured third world country is......

 

[Justcrazy]

I do not understand why people are making this an issue. What is mentioned in Quran about Hijab has been mentioned in Vedas

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw closely over themselves their chadors [when going out]. That makes it likely for them to be recognized and not be troubled, and Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful. 8


( Quran 33:59 )

When Brahma has made you a woman, you should lower your gaze and should not look up. You should put your feet together and you should not reveal what the garment and the veil conceals


Rig Veda Book no. 8 Hymn no. 33 V. no. 19

 

[Justcrazy]

In democracy, people vote for candidates and then the candidate which gets majority gets elected. Every vote from each citizen has equal weight. It isn't like each hindu votes are count as 2 and each muslim votes are count as 1. I don't see how above violates democracy.

This is fake democracy because Hindu votes will outweigh others easily.

 

[Itachi]

This is fake democracy because Hindu votes will outweigh others easily.

How?

 

[Itachi]

Not shining India that is being portrayed by Indians?
India wants a seat at the table with the big boys maybe at least legislate to get similar protections....doesn't take the west to change who their favoured third world country is......

So India should follow the corporate culture of US where it sacks employees via a zoom call without any repercussions.

Every culture has pros and cons. The equality goes out of the windows when there is threat to the sector.

 

[Salma_T]

So India should follow the corporate culture of US where it sacks employees via a zoom call without any repercussions.

Every culture has pros and cons. The equality goes out of the windows when there is threat to the sector.

I thought we were talking about public sector not the private sector?

Yes every culture has its pros and cons but a country cannot call it self a democracy and the largest one at that if the rules are not inclusive. The issue is India wants to play with the big boys yet is is not willing to address issues ....if this was happening in a Muslim to minority group the global media/governments would be all over it.

 

[Itachi]

I thought we were talking about public sector not the private sector?

Yes every culture has its pros and cons but a country cannot call it self a democracy and the largest one at that if the rules are not inclusive. The issue is India wants to play with the big boys yet is is not willing to address issues ....if this was happening in a Muslim to minority group the global media/governments would be all over it.

I think you have misconception about what democracy means. It simply is a political system where citizens can elect the representatives of the state based upon their equal rights to vote.

Is that not so in India's case?

 

[Salma_T]

I think you have misconception about what democracy means. It simply is a political system where citizens can elect the representatives of the state based upon their equal rights to vote.

Is that not so in India's case?

And everyone is safe, what is the point of a vote if your voice is not heard and you are victimised by your own country?

 

[Itachi]

And everyone is safe, what is the point of a vote if your voice is not heard and you are victimised by your own country?

If one feels he/she is being treated unfair, he/she can challenge the regulations in the judiciary system which has also happened in this case. It isn't as if the ban was implemented and the case was not registered in the court.

The judiciary will give its verdict and accordingly ban will be imposed or lifted.

Where do you feel the voices were unheard in this case?

 

[Salma_T]

If one feels he/she is being treated unfair, he/she can challenge the regulations in the judiciary system which has also happened in this case. It isn't as if the ban was implemented and the case was not registered in the court.

The judiciary will give its verdict and accordingly ban will be imposed or lifted.

Where do you feel the voices were unheard in this case?

I am talking in general not this specific case.....we have all read the treatment of minorities in India and the language used. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable.

 

[IAJ]

I stated the facts as per article 25. I explained it in my post above. Its not only for Islam but for all religions.

Now that you have brought in the question of praying 5 times a day, should the institutions also allow for breaks to pray during the work hours? Should they also give them separate space to pray?

Because as was being explained, praying 5 times is "Farz or Fard" in Islam and not following it incurs bigger sin than not using hijab which is not a farz or farz? I got this from a tv debate, so forgive me if i am wrong.

Lol, you quickly changed the topic, from commenting about takfir to be allowed breaks for prayers.

My stance is the same. If a student or an employee want's a break for prayers, she should have the right to ask for this. Then it's upto the management to decide if they should allow or not.

And you have to be a bit pragmatic as well. There are ample time between eatch prayer, so the students can use the ordinary breaks and pray and they can pray wherever they want, you don't need a spesific room for that, just a clean spot and you are good to go.

I live in a non-muslim country which has topped the World list of being democratic second year in a row and I have worked for various employers, be it in private sector or public sector and I have never had issues with praying at work. I have asked and the employer has simply said following; If people can go out and smoke, go and make a cup of coffee etc, why can't you go and pray?

So you see where there is a will there is a way. Just giving an example from my own life here. Of course there will be times when you have important meetings, but even then you will get a break each hour, so it's possible to pray. The individual has to make an effort for that, meaning he should have done ablution prior to the meeting so he can just go to his spot and pray and come back by the time the rest are back from the breaks.

 

[Salma_T]

The constant change of stance/arguments by the Indian posters is laughable.

You call yourself the world's largest democracy....start acting like one! By allowing a head covering or letting people to pray just going to harm the nation.