West Indies v England | 21st -25th April, 2015 | 2nd Test | St. George's

[Sakss]

West Indies Squad
D Ramdin*†, KC Brathwaite, D Bishoo, J Blackwood, CR Brathwaite, DM Bravo, S Chanderpaul, ST Gabriel, JO Holder, SD Hope, KAJ Roach, MN Samuels, DS Smith, JE Taylor

England Squad
AN Cook*, JM Anderson, JM Bairstow, GS Ballance, IR Bell, SCJ Broad, JC Buttler†, CJ Jordan, A Lyth, LE Plunkett, AU Rashid, JE Root, BA Stokes, JC Tredwell, IJL Trott, MA Wood

 

[Boxer]

One more century for JO Holder. Bring it on boy.

 

[Mr Consistent]

England have won toss and will bowl first

 

[Mr Consistent]

ENG XI: A Cook, J Trott, G Ballance, I Bell, J Root, M Ali, B Stokes, J Buttler, C Jordan, S Broad, J Anderson

 

[Mr Consistent]

WI XI: K Brathwaite, DS Smith, DM Bravo, M Samuels, S Chanderpaul, J Blackwood, D Ramdin, K Roach, J Holder, S Gabriel, D Bishoo

 

[Robert]

ENG XI: A Cook, J Trott, G Ballance, I Bell, J Root, M Ali, B Stokes, J Buttler, C Jordan, S Broad, J Anderson

I'd have picked Lyth for Trott and Adil for Jordan.

Anyway it looks humid this morning, so Anderson could rule.

 

[Chrish]

I'd have picked Lyth for Trott and Adil for Jordan.

Anyway it looks humid this morning, so Anderson could rule.

Robo, who do you think will have upper-hand in upcoming Ashes?? This English side looks like haven't lost their touch as far as Test format is concerned..

 

[Robert]

Conditions look perfect for orthodox swing. Jimmy will be lucky to see anything like this in England or NZ.

Robo, who do you think will have upper-hand in upcoming Ashes?? This English side looks like haven't lost their touch as far as Test format is concerned..

Well Crisho, I think the Aussies will retain the Ashes.

This England side is still in transition. There is no set opening partner for Cook, who is woefully out of form anyway. The middle order is fine - that is the strength, from two to seven or eight.

The bowling worries me. The English wickets will all be dry and we have no front-line spinner. We can't expect Moeen to do a Swann and take 25-30 Aussie wickets. Anderson is creaking, and the back-up bowling looks iffy. Perhaps Woakes can advance but we really need a full-speed Finn back to shake up the Aussies.

 

[shaz619]

Why Lyth for Trott, Trott only just got back and they fed him to the wolves by having him open he deserves a long run at no.3 or no.4 before he is dropped. On Dry wickets would have adil over jordan, but he's not really in their ashes plans or else they'd not have sent him back to yorkshire

 

[shaz619]

When will the rain stop, am bored.

 

[Chrish]

Conditions look perfect for orthodox swing. Jimmy will be lucky to see anything like this in England or NZ.



Well Crisho, I think the Aussies will retain the Ashes.

This England side is still in transition. There is no set opening partner for Cook, who is woefully out of form anyway. The middle order is fine - that is the strength, from two to seven or eight.

The bowling worries me. The English wickets will all be dry and we have no front-line spinner. We can't expect Moeen to do a Swann and take 25-30 Aussie wickets. Anderson is creaking, and the back-up bowling looks iffy. Perhaps Woakes can advance but we really need a full-speed Finn back to shake up the Aussies.

Solid assessment. Moeen is not an appropriate player for test based on what we have seen so far. England's strength is their bowling and they need at least two swingers and one permanent spinner. Their middle order doesn't look that bad to me.

Clarke on the other hand is out of form so he shouldn't be hard to dislodge. Not sure if OZ will persist with Watto. If they do then it will be another good news for England. OZ don't seem to have great bowling attack either. Stark has failed with red ball; johno is at decline; Harris stays injured; Lyon is OK but not extraordinary etc.

Overall it will not be completely one-sided contest as many have predicted.

 

[shaz619]

Conditions look perfect for orthodox swing. Jimmy will be lucky to see anything like this in England or NZ.



Well Crisho, I think the Aussies will retain the Ashes.

This England side is still in transition. There is no set opening partner for Cook, who is woefully out of form anyway. The middle order is fine - that is the strength, from two to seven or eight.

The bowling worries me. The English wickets will all be dry and we have no front-line spinner. We can't expect Moeen to do a Swann and take 25-30 Aussie wickets. Anderson is creaking, and the back-up bowling looks iffy. Perhaps Woakes can advance but we really need a full-speed Finn back to shake up the Aussies.

He remains an uncertainty but has kept his place in the team through performance so no point dropping him just yet, utility cricketers are great but in Tests it's not enough. He took 19 Indian Wickets, there's hope he'll come good against Australia who are not so good at playing spin. Mo's Batting is a big issue, it's not good enough for Test Cricket at the moment. His bowling is keeping him the test team so far. They need to work out his role

 

[Justcrazy]

Steady start by English bowlers here.

 

[Justcrazy]

Smith gets that away

 

[shaz619]

Moeen Ali and that Beard though )

 

[shaz619]

Anderson should easily get 450 wickets, I reckon he can end his career with 500 though.

 

[SL_Fan]

Interesting move by Eng to bowl first. Let's see if WI can play out the new ball without too much damage. Around 275-300 should be a good total here I think.

 

[Justcrazy]

smith gone

 

[MarkCooper]

Here comes my favourite player to bat.

 

[MarkCooper]

holy **** he didnt hit the ball and didnt review

 

[Justcrazy]

Bravo taking chances

 

[Justcrazy]

Lunch 36 / 2

 

[Robert]

Jordan has bowled really well, better than Jimmy, pitching it up further. He should be getting the new ball ahead of Broad.

Chef is showing some signs of tactical field-placings too!

 

[shaz619]

Broad and Anderson bowling too slow. If this was a year ago WI would be like 4 wickets down.

 

[The_KING]

Time for Chanderpaul to score some runs

 

[shaz619]

Bravo played the new ball beautifully, anderson shouldn't have come around the wicket. He just had to pitch it up and ball an inswinger after setting him up (to the lefty), but he has been very watchful.

 

[Mamoon]

What a corker by Anderson.

 

[Robert]

Chanders gone to a loose shot from Stokes. 80-4.

Come on England. Keep the pressure on.

 

[The_KING]

Moeen Ali is bowling rubbish so far.

 

[Mamoon]

I think age is finally catching up with Chanderpaul.

 

[Mamoon]

Moeen looks like a rubbish cricketer with each passing game at this level.

Ben Stokes is the real deal for England and I have no doubt that he'll be their star all-rounder in years to come with Moeen a forgotten entity.

 

[Markhor]

Infuriating from West Indies, yet so typical. They fought so hard to earn a draw last time out, now a dreadful start. How Devon Smith is still playing international cricket is crazy - after 37 Tests he averages 25 and after 47 ODIs an average of 24.

England have bowled well to their credit too.

 

[Markhor]

Blackwood really has to cut out some of those appalling wafts outside off stump.

 

[vandokkum]

Infuriating from West Indies, yet so typical. They fought so hard to earn a draw last time out, now a dreadful start. How Devon Smith is still playing international cricket is crazy - after 37 Tests he averages 25 and after 47 ODIs an average of 24.

England have bowled well to their credit too.

Devon Smith is a hack who has no business playing test cricket... it's awful to see how far Darren bravo has fallen too... WI as usual have just given away their wickets. No wonder there are barely any WI supporters left...

 

[Robert]

Moeen looks like a rubbish cricketer with each passing game at this level.

He already has a test hundred and two fivefers in seven completed tests and came on leaps and bounds last year. It would be foolish to damn him on the basis of a few overs on a road.

 

[Markhor]

This is a hard watch. So much so that Tony Cozier has resorted to recalling classic calypso hits from the 1960s. The pitch isn't doing much.

West Indies going at just over 2 runs an over.

 

[vandokkum]

Test cricket is a bit too long for these hare brained bunch..... should stick to t20... England are going to be in for a rude awakening when they face better opposition.

 

[Robert]

This is a hard watch. So much so that Tony Cozier has resorted to recalling classic calypso hits from the 1960s. The pitch isn't doing much.

West Indies going at just over 2 runs an over.

This sort of wicket is no good to man or beast. No swing after the morning humidity, no seam, no bounce, no help for the spinners yet. Why anyone would pay to see this I do not know. Expect a rash of cancelled Sky Sports subscriptions.

 

[Chrish]

You know pitch is a road when Marlon Samuels scores 70..

 

[shaz619]

Am enjoying the game, don't see what the problem is.

 

[SL_Fan]

If WI manage to score another 100 or so runs things might get a bit interesting.

 

[Robert]

Am enjoying the game, don't see what the problem is.

Dreadful pitch which helps neither batters nor bowlers and kills the spectacle.

 

[MarkCooper]

I wonder if the plan from WICB is to produce 3 pitches which will end in 5 day draws to make the maximum amount of money possible for the little islands. Keep people in the grounds all day every day spending money.

 

[Robert]

Windies are inching toward a decent score here.

But they would have to skittle England in the first innings to have a winning chance, because they are using so much time up getting the runs.

 

[Robert]

Well, that was a hundred runs more than WI should have got, after 129-5. England bowling too short as usual.

If Jimmy pitched it up more in his career, he'd have had 450 test wickets by now.

 

[James]

Pretty crap bowling from England. Looking like another bore draw.

 

[shaz619]

what a relief, feels like this 50+ partnership from an English opening pair has come after decades. Still don't like the idea of Trott opening, has disaster written all over it. Too big a risk this close to the Ashes. Hopefully Cook get's hundred, conditions are nice for batting now.

 

[Robert]

England to get 400+ and WI to bat out time again.

Rubbish wicket, boring test match.

 

[Slog]

I wonder if the plan from WICB is to produce 3 pitches which will end in 5 day draws to make the maximum amount of money possible for the little islands. Keep people in the grounds all day every day spending money.

have the attendances been generally good?

 

[Pantani]

I wonder if the plan from WICB is to produce 3 pitches which will end in 5 day draws to make the maximum amount of money possible for the little islands. Keep people in the grounds all day every day spending money.

West Indies don't have the batting for that approach to pay off.

 

[Random Aussie]

I wonder if the plan from WICB is to produce 3 pitches which will end in 5 day draws to make the maximum amount of money possible for the little islands. Keep people in the grounds all day every day spending money.

Ah the pitches in the WI have been dead for a long long time now.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Ah the pitches in the WI have been dead for a long long time now.

They have assisted spinners in recent times but this one is a complete road.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

England will not win anything if they are playing only 3 front line bowlers especially on wickets like this. Absolutely no point in playing an extra batsman on a phatta like this

 

[Junaids]

Conditions look perfect for orthodox swing. Jimmy will be lucky to see anything like this in England or NZ.



Well Crisho, I think the Aussies will retain the Ashes.

This England side is still in transition. There is no set opening partner for Cook, who is woefully out of form anyway. The middle order is fine - that is the strength, from two to seven or eight.

The bowling worries me. The English wickets will all be dry and we have no front-line spinner. We can't expect Moeen to do a Swann and take 25-30 Aussie wickets. Anderson is creaking, and the back-up bowling looks iffy. Perhaps Woakes can advance but we really need a full-speed Finn back to shake up the Aussies.

There is a recipe for England to win - but I'm not sure that they have the guts to do it.

Two years ago England hosted the Ashes on doctored dry wickets to take spin and reverse swing - it was designed for Swann, Anderson and Broad.

This year they need to go several steps further: dry wickets again but with zero bounce and zero pace. Just like Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

Wickets where there is no role for slip fielders after the first four overs.

The bottom line is that England won in India and were quite competitive against Pakistan in the UAE even though they lost 3-0 (but could easily have won 2-1).

Whereas Australia was whitewashed 4-0 in India and 2-0 away to Pakistan.

So clone those wickets, and hope that Fawad Ahmed doesn't triumph.

It takes Broad, Anderson, Johnson, Harris and Hazlewood out of the equation.

And makes the Ashes into a battle to see who copes best with spin.

 

[Convict]

There is a recipe for England to win - but I'm not sure that they have the guts to do it.

Two years ago England hosted the Ashes on doctored dry wickets to take spin and reverse swing - it was designed for Swann, Anderson and Broad.

This year they need to go several steps further: dry wickets again but with zero bounce and zero pace. Just like Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

Wickets where there is no role for slip fielders after the first four overs.

The bottom line is that England won in India and were quite competitive against Pakistan in the UAE even though they lost 3-0 (but could easily have won 2-1).

Whereas Australia was whitewashed 4-0 in India and 2-0 away to Pakistan.

So clone those wickets, and hope that Fawad Ahmed doesn't triumph.

It takes Broad, Anderson, Johnson, Harris and Hazlewood out of the equation.

And makes the Ashes into a battle to see who copes best with spin.

In that case I'd back the side with the leggy over the side with the part time offy

 

[Junaids]

In that case I'd back the side with the leggy over the side with the part time offy

So would I, but that isn't the equation.

Imagine if England appoint Vaughan or Stewart as the supremo, and if they win 1-0 in the West Indies then lose at home to New Zealand, leading to Peter Moores "resigning". (Appointing Strauss counts only as a form of self-harm).

All three of the well-meaning incompetents who want a team of "good eggs" would be gone - Whitaker, Moores and Downton.

Now, I don't see Kevin Pietersen as the most useful beneficiary in that situation. I see Monty Panesar in that role.

So you play Australia on horrible slow, flat turners.

And the equation is not then Fawad versus Moeen.

It is Fawad + Lyon versus Panesar and Moeen.

And it is batsmen like Root, Pietersen and Cook who have won a series in India against Australia's batsmen who haven't.

They won't have the guts or the imagination to do it. But it's the only way that England could win the Ashes this northern summer.

 

[Convict]

I still think England are a pretty decent chance of winning.

The Australian batting lineup is highly suspect against a swinging ball.

A lot depends on Ryan Harris.

 

[Robert]

England will not win anything if they are playing only 3 front line bowlers especially on wickets like this. Absolutely no point in playing an extra batsman on a phatta like this

I would argue that Moeen is England's #1 spinner now, and since Stokes bowls at 90 mph and has a fivefer against Australia must be considered a test bowler too.

 

[Robert]

So you play Australia on horrible slow, flat turners.

And the equation is not then Fawad versus Moeen.

It is Fawad + Lyon versus Panesar and Moeen.

And it is batsmen like Root, Pietersen and Cook who have won a series in India against Australia's batsmen who haven't.

They won't have the guts or the imagination to do it. But it's the only way that England could win the Ashes this northern summer.

Nice idea but I think Monty is out to graze now. I'd love to see Finn, Broad (who is better than Anderson on dry tracks) and Stokes with three spinners - party like it's 1956! - but it won't happen.

 

[Convict]

Australia's first choice attack will be Johnson, Harris, Hazlewood and Lyon. Watson and or Mitch Marsh's bowling will be okay to useful in English conditions and Smith and Voges (if he plays) are okay part time spinners. Voges probably better than Smith but Smith's the kind of bowler who gets a wicket amid a few overs of absolute rubbish.

Hazlewood might actually get the new ball ahead of Johnson a few times.

 

[trogger]

Don't think england would go for rank turners this time not when a still relatively unknown quantity like ali would then become the key to the entire series.

England will just back themselves to win on more typical english pitches, yes bowlers like harris will damage england on those decks but they will back the likes of root ballance bell ect to handle swinging conditions conditions far better than our top 6.

My gut feel is we are looking at a 2009 type ashes again, a very close series where an hour like the last at cardiff could swing the series one way or the other.

 

[Convict]

My feeling is that promoting Smith to number 3 will be a mistake.

Warner and Smith have improved a lot. I don't want them both in the top 3. Smith still moves around too much to bat at 3 in a test match in my opinion.

I would actually prefer Watto at number 3 scoring his usual 20-30 with Smith further back. Yes that means Mitch Marsh misses out but we need to pick the lineup which maximises our chance of winning.
And to me Smith will score more runs in the middle order than in the top order and he'll make up for any runs we lose by putting Watson at 3.

And Voges ahead of Shaun Marsh. Marsh's best is better than Voges but I know which one the two I'd trust if there was a collapse.

The fact the Clarke has signed on as the Melbourne Stars Captain in the BBL probably means he will retire after the Ashes. Voges has enough left in the tank to hang a round for a few years and support Smith's leadership.

 

[Robert]

Don't think england would go for rank turners this time not when a still relatively unknown quantity like ali would then become the key to the entire series.

England will just back themselves to win on more typical english pitches, yes bowlers like harris will damage england on those decks but they will back the likes of root ballance bell ect to handle swinging conditions conditions far better than our top 6.

My gut feel is we are looking at a 2009 type ashes again, a very close series where an hour like the last at cardiff could swing the series one way or the other.

Traditional English pitches - if by which you mean slow seamers - don't exist in the test grounds. They are all bone-dry these days due to the super-effective drainage. They will be just the same as for last English Ashes and for the Indian series last year, in which conditions suited India better than England!

Orthodox swinging conditions are all down to the atmosphere, not the wickets. We might get a belting hot summer in which the Duke stops swinging after ten overs, but which Jimmy can reverse later on.

 

[Junaids]

Don't think england would go for rank turners this time not when a still relatively unknown quantity like ali would then become the key to the entire series.

England will just back themselves to win on more typical english pitches, yes bowlers like harris will damage england on those decks but they will back the likes of root ballance bell ect to handle swinging conditions conditions far better than our top 6.

I agree, but it's a mistake.

Panesar has been superb in both the UAE and India.

Moeen Ali took 19 wickets in a 4 Test series v India.

Meanwhile Australia has been massacred away to both India and Pakistan in the last 2 years. Moreover, on such tracks Australia always try to go in with 3 quicks and 1 spinner and get murdered.

Australia's quicks are better and quicker than England's. If England get into a fast or even swing bowling shootout they will lose.

England's only hope is to trap Australia in the only conditions in which they truly suck. Flat, slow pitches like the ones they failed on in the UAE.

 

[Robert]

I agree, but it's a mistake.

Panesar has been superb in both the UAE and India.

But he had Swann to advise him then. In NZ, on some unseasonally dry tracks, with no Swann he was innocuous. I don't think he is bright enough to do it himself. He still doesn't understand the lbw law.

 

[Junaids]

But he had Swann to advise him then. In NZ, on some unseasonally dry tracks, with no Swann he was innocuous. I don't think he is bright enough to do it himself. He still doesn't understand the lbw law.

I half agree.

Panesar is a bowler who really can only work on a slow, flat, spinning track. England have tried to make him into something he isn't, and it can never work. And he's a terrible batsman, which modern teams can't afford their spinner to be because on a pace-friendly wicket he becomes a waste of a place (like he did for Essex in the Championship this week, where he didn't bowl a single ball).

But the question is not "what is England's best team". It is "have England got the personnel who could beat Australia in certain conditions".

I'm not sure that the selectors have registered that Anderson and Broad are both significantly poorer than when they were younger. They are now both the 35 year old Kapil Dev, better than their peers but worse than their former selves.

And I think that Panesar, even more than Pietersen, is the product of awful man-management, which didn't know how to maintain a troubled soul to feel like a valued member of the squad.

I'm from Lancashire, but the very idea that Simon Kerrigan could replace Monty Panesar was simply absurd, and tells a vivid story of a national team in which conformity is valued more than ability.

 

[Robert]

Broad was at 90 mph yesterday - looked every bit his old mongrel self. He's what, 28? Years left.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

England cannot get the tail out, there is an art to it which David saker could have helped with

 

[Robert]

England cannot get the tail out, there is an art to it which David saker could have helped with

Not if your name is Steven Finn!

 

[MarkCooper]

that should have been OUT on the field what was the blind umpire doing

 

[The_KING]

Poor Cook.

 

[Juansar_07]

Cook & Bell Wicket.Two almost identical dismissals by Gabriel.

Spoiler

 

[Robert]

England into the black!

Get the six, seven and eight thunderbats in tomorrow, power to a 200 lead, hope it turns on the last day and ENG go one up with one to play.

 

[James]

Bishoo is bowling absolute rubbish! #KeepHimOn

 

[MarkCooper]

3 of the 4 wickets have been dumb self-inflicted mistakes

 

[MarkCooper]

Just enough time left in the day for Ali to do something dopey

 

[MarkCooper]

Told you.

 

[James]

One of the worst run outs ever. Pathetic

 

[shaz619]

what was the beard thinking? no run there, Root needs to get a double here

 

[shaz619]

Just enough time left in the day for Ali to do something dopey

)

You called it, I had the same feeling