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West Indies v Pakistan | 2nd Test | Sabina Park | Aug 20- Aug 24, 2021 | Pre-match discussion

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MenInG

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So where do we go from here?

A few players clearly do not deserve to be in the line-up so is there now a case for some much-awaited debuts for the 2nd Test?
 
There is a case for debuts but chances are very slim. Misbah and his servant babar will tell us players are getting used to WI conditions now.
Imran butt and Yasir Shah deserve to go
 
I have a strong belief that Pakistan would bounce back strongly in the final test and level the series 1-1.
 
Doubt that Pakistan will make any changes from the team that lost the first test.

There could be a little chance for Nauman Ali though in place of Yasir Shah.
 
Imran butt surely cant stay in team just because he can catch..yasir was awful i know not a spinning wicket but two ducks worthless and even abbas he just a new ball bowler i wud play dhani
 
Highly unlikely but, 3 changes for me.

Abid Ali
Azhar Ali
Saud Shakeel (In for Imran Butt)
Babar Azam (C)
Fawad Alam
Mohammad Rizwan (WK)
Faheem Ashraf
Nauman Ali (In for Yasir Shah)
Hassan Ali
Shaheen Shah
Shahnawaz Dahani/ Naseem Shah (In for Abbas)

Yes might be unpopular opinion to drop Abbas but, as I have mentioned in other threads he becomes an end holder after initial 5-6 overs with the new ball. You are not going to take 20 wickets regularly if you have just two attacking pacers who can take wickets in different ball conditions and different situations. Even if he does well in assistive conditions and dukes ball, his style of bowling with current pace isnt going to be effective on most surfaces.
 
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I was infact shocked by the Babar interview I saw on PCB YouTube channel.

He seemed satisfied and content. And some cliches comments like 'beauty of test cricket ' and ' one moment up, one moment down' .

He didn't look hurt and rattled and its apparantly fine competing with the Windies neck to neck.

With Babar, Pakistan cricket is going no and the pride is gone and the body language is very poor. Borderline lower level team.
 
Is Abdullah Shafiq the perennial tourist in the Windies, if he is, he has to play. Replace Abbas with Dahani and Yasir with Shakeel
 
Is Abdullah Shafiq the perennial tourist in the Windies, if he is, he has to play. Replace Abbas with Dahani and Yasir with Shakeel

Nah gotta have Numan ali in for Yasir but BUT Shakeel bowls useful part time so might not be bad
 
Abdullah Shafique and Saud Shakeel need to be given a chance now
 
Uncle Nauman and Saud in for Butt and Yasir. I would love to drop Abbas but there's no experienced pacer in the squad picked so I would keep him.

Putting those two in will strengthen the batting and Nauman will keep it tight with the ball if he doesn't take wickets.
 
Uncle Nauman and Saud in for Butt and Yasir. I would love to drop Abbas but there's no experienced pacer in the squad picked so I would keep him.

Putting those two in will strengthen the batting and Nauman will keep it tight with the ball if he doesn't take wickets.

:asif

It is Misbah who is in charge, there will be no changes in the line up.
Embrace the new norm and accept defeat , if they win once in a while just be happy about it.
 
We should make at least two changes with Abdullah/Saud replacing Butt and Nauman coming in for Yasir but most likely it will be just the second one. Of course under ideal circumstances and a saner management at least 3-5 changes are warranted.
 
Once again our players' win fans' hearts. Fight, sunk your boat at the last moment, bring tears on fan's eyes, praise the beauty of test crickets, talk about suspense, unpredictability. Winning doesn't matter at all.
 
We haven't come back from demoralizing losses very well in the recent past.
SL 2014, 2017, NZ 2018, Aus 2016 (After the MCG test)

The only time we did so in the last decade was in England 2016 after losing the 3rd test but that was the peak Pakistan test team of the 2010s.
 
Any idea on the Windies XI? They looked quite poor in the first test, they were lucky to win the match.

Shannon Gabriel and Alzarri Joseph should come back. Also, where is Rakheem Cornwall? Batting looks terrible as well.
 
I would go with.i will give the last chance to both Abid and Imran butt.i will drop yasir and play nuaman who is a better batter and can hold an end up

Abid Ali
Imran butt
Azhar
Babar
Fawad
Rizwan
Fahim
Hassan Ali
Nuaman
Shaheen
Abbas
 
They didn't get much out of Warrican- 8 overs for the match. I'd say he'd be out, Gabriel in.

Their batting is terrible but I don't see them changing a winning team aside from Gabriel to return.

Braithwaite at opener and Holder at #7 are their only regular contributors. Does anyone else even average 30? 25?

For that reason Pakistan will always be in with a chance- it only takes one good knock each innings to create a score the WI will really struggle to reach. Low scoring matches they can compete in- high scoring match they just don't have the stickability in their batters.
 
Bring in Saud Shakeel inplace of Yasir Shah.... and go with same team

lets give openers little more time
 
West Indies is a very poor team and was kind of lucky in the first test. Pakistan should win this one.
 
So where do we go from here?

A few players clearly do not deserve to be in the line-up so is there now a case for some much-awaited debuts for the 2nd Test?
I’m hoping for a brutal defeat to end the careers of:

Misbah
Waqar
Abid Ali
Imran Butt
Azhar Ali
Fawad Alam
Yasir Shah
Mohammad Abbas

Those six players and two coaches just aren’t there on merit, and their time is up.
 
I’m hoping for a brutal defeat to end the careers of:

Misbah
Waqar
Abid Ali
Imran Butt
Azhar Ali
Fawad Alam
Yasir Shah
Mohammad Abbas

Those six players and two coaches just aren’t there on merit, and their time is up.

I thought this WTC cycle does not matter. So, let these players go on for a bit.
Plus i like how you are only ousting anyone above the age of 30. A different way to the same age thing.
Fawad Alam, seriously. He has been your best test match batter for some time know.
 
KINGSTON, Jamaica (CMC) – Kemar Roach has labelled Sunday's dramatic one-run victory over Pakistan in the opening Test at Sabina Park, as the most significant of his 66-Test career.

The 33-year-old batted for a shade over 1-½ hours for an unbeaten 30 that fired West Indies to their target of 168, after the innings lay in ruins at 114 for seven at tea and then 151 for nine, an hour later at Sabina Park.

“It was a big victory. I think it's the biggest victory for me in Test cricket,” said Roach, who arrived at the crease immediately after tea with 54 runs required, following Jason Holder's demise to the last delivery before the break.

“The way we fought or had to fight to get this win was really strong stuff. It was good to see the guys sticking together obviously. The support on the balcony while I was batting was amazing and then the communication in the middle was simple. I think that's what helped us to execute as well as we did.

“It's a good win, it's gone down in history. Now it's on to the next one.”

West Indies found themselves wobbling on 16 for three in the eighth over of the run chase after a devastating new-ball spell from left-arm pacer Shaheen Shah Afridi accounted for Kieran Powell (4), captain Kraigg Brathwaite (2) and Nkrumah Bonner (5) in quick succession.

Vice-captain Jermaine Blackwood top-scored with 55 in a 68-run, fourth wicket stand with Roston Chase (22) but they were part of a collapse which saw four wickets tumble for 30 runs to leave the hosts tottering at the second interval.

https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/lat...est’_of_career,_says_Roach?profile=1228
 
I thought this WTC cycle does not matter. So, let these players go on for a bit.
Plus i like how you are only ousting anyone above the age of 30. A different way to the same age thing.
Fawad Alam, seriously. He has been your best test match batter for some time know.

Fawad Alam is a perfect example of what goes wrong when a batsman is too old to remain consistent.

These are his scores since his comeback:

0
21 and 0*
9 and 102
2 and 16
109 and 4*
45 and 12
140 and 5 (v Zimbabwe)
56 and 0

So he has 13 completed innings since his return.

The benchmark for any given innings is that a specialist batsman should be scoring at least 20 in 66% of completed innings.

Fawad Alam has scored at least 20 in 5 innings and scored less than 17 in 8 of those 13 innings.

That would be tolerable in a promising youngster. It's catastrophic in a 36 year old geriatric.

By way of comparison:

Fawad Alam reaches 20 in 5 out of 13 innings - a 38% success rate.
Umar Akmal was discarded after reaching 10 in 20 out of 31 innings - a 65% success rate.

It's no good scoring a century in every fourth innings and less than 20 in the other three innings.

Fawad Alam is everything that is wrong with geriatric batsmen.
 
Fawad Alam is a perfect example of what goes wrong when a batsman is too old to remain consistent.

These are his scores since his comeback:

0
21 and 0*
9 and 102
2 and 16
109 and 4*
45 and 12
140 and 5 (v Zimbabwe)
56 and 0

So he has 13 completed innings since his return.

The benchmark for any given innings is that a specialist batsman should be scoring at least 20 in 66% of completed innings.

Fawad Alam has scored at least 20 in 5 innings and scored less than 17 in 8 of those 13 innings.

That would be tolerable in a promising youngster. It's catastrophic in a 36 year old geriatric.

By way of comparison:

Fawad Alam reaches 20 in 5 out of 13 innings - a 38% success rate.
Umar Akmal was discarded after reaching 10 in 20 out of 31 innings - a 65% success rate.

It's no good scoring a century in every fourth innings and less than 20 in the other three innings.

Fawad Alam is everything that is wrong with geriatric batsmen.

Here you come again old man with your rubbish stats. Copy & paste your rubbish over and over again. What has the young guys done for the last few series?
 
I thought this WTC cycle does not matter. So, let these players go on for a bit.
Plus i like how you are only ousting anyone above the age of 30. A different way to the same age thing.
Fawad Alam, seriously. He has been your best test match batter for some time know.

Junaids is nothing but an ageist and nothing short of an “interesting” character about as dumb as rocks.
 
Junaids is nothing but an ageist and nothing short of an “interesting” character about as dumb as rocks.

Sport is ageist. (And I’m 52 years old!)

Apart from Azhar Ali, Ross Taylor is the only batsman as old as him still playing overseas.

Contemporaries like Cook and De Villiers retired years ago.

No team can carry even one failing geriatric batsman like Fawad Alam or Abid Ali or Azhar Ali who fails to reach 20 in over 60% of his innings.

But Pakistan try to carry 3 of them in their 5 specialist batsmen!
 
Sport is ageist. (And I’m 52 years old!)

Apart from Azhar Ali, Ross Taylor is the only batsman as old as him still playing overseas.

Contemporaries like Cook and De Villiers retired years ago.

No team can carry even one failing geriatric batsman like Fawad Alam or Abid Ali or Azhar Ali who fails to reach 20 in over 60% of his innings.

But Pakistan try to carry 3 of them in their 5 specialist batsmen!

Let me tell you how the real world works gramps, performing players can’t be dropped and to be honest your level of maths and stats don’t tell the full story.

Can you wish to tell us what is Azhar Ali’s average for this year and Fawad’s for that matter and then tell us where that ranks among the current Pakistan batsmen ie is it below the spectrum or above?

Seriously sir you need to stop harbouring a personal agenda against players and it’s frankly guys like you that would make a terrible selector.

You advocate for the likes of Umar Akmal the fixer who disappointed more so than made Pakistan proud.

I agree about Abid Ali, but Fawad and Azhar Ali are currently the top performers for this year in tests.
 
How are people still coming after Fawad Alam..goodness.

Saud Shakeel and Nauman Ali for Imran Butt and Yasir Shah, rest same.
 
What happened to the FAT spinner Windies had playing for them? He was a handy bat too.
 
How are people still coming after Fawad Alam..goodness.

Saud Shakeel and Nauman Ali for Imran Butt and Yasir Shah, rest same.

Here's the problem bro.

Imran Butt might be INSERT NAME OF MOST TERRIBLE BATSMAN OF ALL TIME but he's the Virat Kohli of slips catching lol. Dilemma of the highest orda!
 
What happened to the FAT spinner Windies had playing for them? He was a handy bat too.

Him i was afraid of, Rakheem Cornwall. I reckon they'll drop Warrican for him next game or if you are the winning side then it's a no change in my view.
 
Let's see if Misbah is drunk enough to select the same XI as last time. "Don't change a combination you almost won with" :)))
 
Abid
Saud
Azhar
Babar
Fawad
Rizwan
Fahim
Nauman/Shah
Hasan
Shaheen
Abbas

Please don't ruin Dhani by debuting him after doing well in one PSL. Has played only 8 FC games. Needs to play atleast one more season before thinking about handing him a test cap.
 
Pakistan practicing ahead of the 2nd Test match

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Azhar Ali wont return to opening, he will selfishly stay at number 3. Same openers will be picked again and pakistan will lose series 2-0. abid and butt being gifted wrapped walking wickets again.
 
Pictures (courtesy of the PCB) of the Pakistan Test squad practicing ahead of the 2nd and final Test of the series against the West Indies.

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I was infact shocked by the Babar interview I saw on PCB YouTube channel.

He seemed satisfied and content. And some cliches comments like 'beauty of test cricket ' and ' one moment up, one moment down' .

He didn't look hurt and rattled and its apparantly fine competing with the Windies neck to neck.

With Babar, Pakistan cricket is going no and the pride is gone and the body language is very poor. Borderline lower level team.

Very good post. It looks like the Misbah effect is showing here. Our team knows its limitations so they are ok with where they are. I guess fans should expect nothing from this team either. its nothing more than a team full of players who were picked on favorites.
 
Pakistan bowlers practicing ahead of the 2nd Test

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WhatsApp Image 2021-08-19 at 5.56.34 PM (2).jpg

2-0 loss Pakistan will drop to 6th position, else they stay on 5th but South Africa close to Pakistan
 
Apparently getting news that Yasir Shah will be dropped next game with Numan coming in. Openers will stay put.
 
Apparently getting news that Yasir Shah will be dropped next game with Numan coming in. Openers will stay put.

The openers need to go. They are not good enough. Should be the last game of imran butts career. A truly mediocre batmen abid is not far behind.
 
Apparently getting news that Yasir Shah will be dropped next game with Numan coming in. Openers will stay put.

Bowling isn't even that much of an issue.

Our batting is a big concern and nothing is being done to improve our chances of scoring big tons.
 
1. Abdullah Shafique
2. Azhar Ali
3. Babar Azam (c)
4. Saud Shakeel
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammed Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf
8. Nauman Ali
9. Hasan Ali
10. Shaheen Afridi
11. Mohammed Abbas
 
I would go with.i will give the last chance to both Abid and Imran butt.l

Asad Shafiq made a 10 year test career out of last chances!!!

We need to decide now if these guys are good enough or not.
 
Bowling isn't even that much of an issue.

Our batting is a big concern and nothing is being done to improve our chances of scoring big tons.

Are you kidding me at times during WI chase Shaheen was spraying it down the leg side just gifting runs.

In terms of scoring tons the middle order have been successful with Fawad- 2, Azhar- 1, Rizwan- 1.

The openers though are the biggest concern as echoed by everyone. The average opening partnership barring the one the pair had against Zimbabwe in the first test is about 13.5 which is just awful.

Both Imran and Abid are great fielders but we can’t keep sacrificing batsmen for fielders.
 
The openers need to go. They are not good enough. Should be the last game of imran butts career. A truly mediocre batmen abid is not far behind.

Imran like I said to another guy terrible batsman no doubt but he’s the Kohli of slips fielding lol.
 
Imran like I said to another guy terrible batsman no doubt but he’s the Kohli of slips fielding lol.

Why can't we just keep Imran Butt as a 12th man and keep him subbed on? Then we can make use of his fielding without actually playing him.
 
Are you kidding me at times during WI chase Shaheen was spraying it down the leg side just gifting runs.

In terms of scoring tons the middle order have been successful with Fawad- 2, Azhar- 1, Rizwan- 1.

The openers though are the biggest concern as echoed by everyone. The average opening partnership barring the one the pair had against Zimbabwe in the first test is about 13.5 which is just awful.

Both Imran and Abid are great fielders but we can’t keep sacrificing batsmen for fielders.

I think our fast bowlers were decent vs the West Indies. Maybe not consistent throughout but bowled some decent spells which tilted the match towards our favor.

Our batting in general was poor. Fawad, Babar tried their best but the rest couldn't cope with the available movement on that wicket.

The reason I think if changes had to be made it should have been in the top order. Our top 3 has been a flop for some time now.
 
Asad Shafiq made a 10 year test career out of last chances!!!

We need to decide now if these guys are good enough or not.

Who do we have that is good enough to open ? You can't drop someone based upon a couple tests.
 
Who do we have that is good enough to open ? You can't drop someone based upon a couple tests.

Just move Azhar up and put Saud in. Imran Butt is the worst TTF in Pakistan cricket. Guy hasn't scored past 15 in his Test career of 5 tests. Lol.
 
Just move Azhar up and put Saud in. Imran Butt is the worst TTF in Pakistan cricket. Guy hasn't scored past 15 in his Test career of 5 tests. Lol.

Azhar looked poor in the first test infact he looked like a walking wicket in the first test.am all for saud in the second test but what if fails ?
 
Just move Azhar up and put Saud in. Imran Butt is the worst TTF in Pakistan cricket. Guy hasn't scored past 15 in his Test career of 5 tests. Lol.
Agreed. Azhar & Saud should open.

But Misbah/Waqar would shave their beards but not make a bold and logical move.
 
Brathwaite should just bat first on winning the toss. Like Holder, he is too obsessed with bowling first all the time.
 
I'll repeat that we saw Jaden Seales succeed due to the bounce he generated, and also the fact that he got some shape.

Both teams are weak to short-pitched bowling, and I think it makes a strong case for someone like Shahnawaz Dahani to come into the mix.

I know he doesn't have the required FC experience, but he is on the squad, and should be looked into.

Abbas offers the chance of early breakthroughs, but he doesn't have any penetration with the old ball.

I think Shaheen and Hasan starting with the new ball (as they did in Zimbabwe and against South Africa) brought about some success. The new ball should help Hasan Ali with his natural length and get some good seam movement.

Dahani should be brought in to bowl on a good length, but occasionally pitch it fuller as well to see if he can get some inswing, which will be the undoing of these West Indies batters.

When batsmen get a bit comfortable, he should be able to deliver short-pitched bowling to get them outside their comfort zones, because most of the batsmen on this West Indies team (apart from Blackwood) would be quite uncomfortable playing well-directed short balls.
 
Sport is ageist. (And I’m 52 years old!)

Apart from Azhar Ali, Ross Taylor is the only batsman as old as him still playing overseas.

Contemporaries like Cook and De Villiers retired years ago.

No team can carry even one failing geriatric batsman like Fawad Alam or Abid Ali or Azhar Ali who fails to reach 20 in over 60% of his innings.

But Pakistan try to carry 3 of them in their 5 specialist batsmen!

No doubt about it. Pakistan is an aged team. Abbas is officially 31 but bowls slower than 38 year old Dale Steyn. This is why Pakistan keeps losing test matches. You need to invest in youth. Naseem Shah was, from the words of PAK fans themselves , the fastest Asian test pacer, and the PCB just dropped him at a whim after 1 bad tour.

I feel Pakistan should bring Naseem back ahead of Abbas. Naseem 's will be too hot for Windiew batsmen.
 
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