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What’s the future of English Test batting?

Not that great a future if Day 1 of the 1st Test is anything to go by
 
England 141 all out, lead by nine on first innings
After a decent start, making it to 59-0 and 75-1, England's batting frailties surfaced again as New Zealand's seamers showed their class.
 
England still don’t know what their best team is. Not even close to knowing really.

I’ve come to the conclusion that Ollie Pope at the moment isn’t good enough — and Alex Lees meanwhile I don’t think will ever be good enough unfortunately.

England could try this in the second Test:

Zak Crawley
Ben Compton
Joe Root
Jonny Bairstow
Harry Brook
Ben Stokes*
Ben Foakes+
Matthew Potts
Stuart Broad
Matthew Parkinson
James Anderson

If the pitch at Trent Bridge is going to give nothing to the spinner, Root can bowl his part time offies and there would then be the option to go in with four fast bowlers (Stokes as 4th seamer), then play Dawid Malan as the number three bat or Dan Lawrence at number four and move everyone else down one.

The bowling at the moment, particularly in English conditions, is not a problem. The fielding and the catching seems to have improved a lot as well.

The batting is where England are weak.
It needs bolstering and beefing up.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Difficult to develop batsmen if the ball is constantly swinging/seaming.
Click to expand...

It’s not been as big of a problem in the past for England.

Most of the English players even in the dark days of the 1990s would at least average 35-40, sometimes a bit more & they would all be capable of scoring a gritty ton on their day. England even occasionally won Test matches.

Our batting stocks now are the worst they have ever been.
 
James said:
England still don’t know what their best team is. Not even close to knowing really.

I’ve come to the conclusion that Ollie Pope at the moment isn’t good enough — and Alex Lees meanwhile I don’t think will ever be good enough unfortunately.

England could try this in the second Test:

Zak Crawley
Ben Compton
Joe Root
Jonny Bairstow
Harry Brook
Ben Stokes*
Ben Foakes+
Matthew Potts
Stuart Broad
Matthew Parkinson
James Anderson

If the pitch at Trent Bridge is going to give nothing to the spinner, Root can bowl his part time offies and there would then be the option to go in with four fast bowlers (Stokes as 4th seamer), then play Dawid Malan as the number three bat or Dan Lawrence at number four and move everyone else down one.

The bowling at the moment, particularly in English conditions, is not a problem. The fielding and the catching seems to have improved a lot as well.

The batting is where England are weak.
It needs bolstering and beefing up.
Click to expand...

Zack Crawley isn't good enough however England don't have much options.Potts is at best a number 9/10
 
The failures of the past such as Compton, Jennings, Carberry and Lyth would have walked into this current side.

Every team goes through peaks and troughs but England need to act fast to ensure that this decline is not irreversible.
 
^Good way of putting it.

Brendon is on a four year contract with England, but I reckon he has (at best) half of that time to reverse their fortunes — otherwise that irreversible line could be crossed.
 
Sky Sports' Michael Atherton...

"What a difference a year makes, ey? Cast your mind back 12 months to a timid, cautious England team not going for a run-chase that was a little over three-an-over.

"Then here, that statement of intent from the off - 'we are going to go for this win!' It is just the difference between looking at glass half full or glass half empty.

"I take my hat to the new management and this England team for having a go and getting there so easily in the end, it was a cakewalk!

"Jonny Bairstow playing the innings of his life - 136 from 92 - and then Ben Stokes playing second fiddle for a while. Then once Bairstow got out, had his captain's hat on - 'I'm going to take this home'.'"
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">England's run-rate in their last 3 Test innings:<br><br>5.45<br>5.37<br>5.98<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvsNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvsNZ</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1541427269465505794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
this victory can be great for england or poor.

NZ is a good team and beating them comprehensively is a statement

however, their bang-bang approach can misfire. they can be 150-0 with this approach or 50-6

some of ben stokes' dismissals were horrendous. unnecessarily being aggressive

when they play on pitches outside of england and succeed then i will be willing to really accept that this strategy is worth utilizing.

On the other hand, pakistan needs to realize what england is doing and where the game has gone...they are still batting at run rate of 2 in the first 50 overs


abdullah shafique is new, but azhar ali cost us a potential win against australia in the second test
 
arif_2021 said:
this victory can be great for england or poor.

NZ is a good team and beating them comprehensively is a statement

however, their bang-bang approach can misfire. they can be 150-0 with this approach or 50-6

some of ben stokes' dismissals were horrendous. unnecessarily being aggressive

when they play on pitches outside of england and succeed then i will be willing to really accept that this strategy is worth utilizing.

On the other hand, pakistan needs to realize what england is doing and where the game has gone...they are still batting at run rate of 2 in the first 50 overs


abdullah shafique is new, but azhar ali cost us a potential win against australia in the second test
Click to expand...

England were already 50-6 bud. Then Bairstow scored a massive century and they got 360 :))

Point taken that this approach needs testing over a longer period and in different conditions to see what happens with it.

Stokes in the first innings is too trigger happy. Needs to wind it down a bit. In the second innings run chase at Trent Bridge he was superb. Controlled aggression is best from him.
 
arif_2021 said:
this victory can be great for england or poor.

NZ is a good team and beating them comprehensively is a statement

however, their bang-bang approach can misfire. they can be 150-0 with this approach or 50-6

some of ben stokes' dismissals were horrendous. unnecessarily being aggressive

when they play on pitches outside of england and succeed then i will be willing to really accept that this strategy is worth utilizing.

On the other hand, pakistan needs to realize what england is doing and where the game has gone...they are still batting at run rate of 2 in the first 50 overs


abdullah shafique is new, but azhar ali cost us a potential win against australia in the second test
Click to expand...

Pakistan has still managed to draw and win a series against England in England.
 
James said:
England were already 50-6 bud. Then Bairstow scored a massive century and they got 360 :))

Point taken that this approach needs testing over a longer period and in different conditions to see what happens with it.

Stokes in the first innings is too trigger happy. Needs to wind it down a bit. In the second innings run chase at Trent Bridge he was superb. Controlled aggression is best from him.
Click to expand...

He’s a better chaser than target-setter.

Root is the opposite - he scores big in the first innings, setting the shape of the game.
 
shamaan said:
Pakistan has still managed to draw and win a series against England in England.
Click to expand...

One of those wins was in 1987. Another in 1992. The games has changed a lot in 30 years - even in the last three or four.
 
This could be the future!

==

The 20-year-old left-hander had already broken the national record for the highest Second XI Championship score on Wednesday evening.

And today he moved into realms known only to such luminaries as the great Brian Lara as he chalked up his fourth hundred of the match against Nottinghamshire at the Lady Bay Sports Ground.

Bean was finally dismissed for 441 from 518 balls with 52 fours and three sixes, which left Yorkshire 796-6 as they replied to Nottinghamshire’s first innings 534 on the final day of a run-filled fixture.

The York Cricket Club product is not under contract at Yorkshire, having previously played for the club through the various age groups, the Academy and in second XI cricket.

Despite being offered an Academy deal, Bean left Headingley at the end of the 2020 season and, after some impressive displays for York in the last two seasons, he has earned another chance with the county at second-team level.

He has certainly taken it in this innings, which eclipsed Marcus Trescothick’s national record of 322 for Somerset 25 years ago.

Bean, who resumed this morning on 365, also sailed past Richard Blakey’s Yorkshire second team record of 273 not out at Northamptonshire in 1986.

Tom Smith, the Yorkshire second team coach, said: “Finlay’s batted brilliantly. It’s not just his skill that’s been impressive, it’s his concentration levels as well.

“Second-team cricket is about creating opportunities, and someone like Finlay has taken his in this game.”

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/spo...batting-record-with-quadruple-century-3751370
 
Robert said:
One of those wins was in 1987. Another in 1992. The games has changed a lot in 30 years - even in the last three or four.
Click to expand...

Am not sure what your on about Pakistan drew in England in 2018 and in 2016
 
Robert said:
He’s a better chaser than target-setter.

Root is the opposite - he scores big in the first innings, setting the shape of the game.
Click to expand...

Root seems to have improved as a chaser, was a big part of the first and third Test wins with hardcore second innings runs.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The first triple century in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LVCountyChamp?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LVCountyChamp</a> since 2017!<br><br>A masterclass with the bat from <a href="https://twitter.com/JetJennings?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JetJennings</a> &#55357;&#56908; <a href="https://t.co/bG4ZWaQDo3">pic.twitter.com/bG4ZWaQDo3</a></p>— LV= Insurance County Championship (@CountyChamp) <a href="https://twitter.com/CountyChamp/status/1547265133155684353?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 13, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">✅ Third highest <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LVCountyChamp?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LVCountyChamp</a> score. <br>✅ Glamorgan's highest ever individual score. <br>✅ Ninth man in first-class history to bring up 400 in an innings.<br>✅ First ever Glamorgan player to pass 400. <br><br>Sam Northeast. Take a bow. <a href="https://t.co/cnvs9Vq50g">pic.twitter.com/cnvs9Vq50g</a></p>— LV= Insurance County Championship (@CountyChamp) <a href="https://twitter.com/CountyChamp/status/1550818107060617217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 23, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">✅ Third highest <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LVCountyChamp?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LVCountyChamp</a> score. <br>✅ Glamorgan's highest ever individual score. <br>✅ Ninth man in first-class history to bring up 400 in an innings.<br>✅ First ever Glamorgan player to pass 400. <br><br>Sam Northeast. Take a bow. <a href="https://t.co/cnvs9Vq50g">pic.twitter.com/cnvs9Vq50g</a></p>— LV= Insurance County Championship (@CountyChamp) <a href="https://twitter.com/CountyChamp/status/1550818107060617217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 23, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

FYWp-x-XwAIkvA6
 
That is an unreal score.

32 years old but not heard much about him before this.
 
Back to square one

Let’s go through their averages again (of recent playing 11)


A Lees/ 24.8
Z Crawley/ 26.0
O Pope/ 30.1
J Root/ 50.3
J Bairstow/ 36.9
B Stokes/ 35.9
B Foakes/ 26.9

Just 1 batsman (in top 7) averages 37 & above (Root). Bairstow despite having a goat season is averaging less than 37

4 out of 7 are averaging below 30, and all 3 in top 3 avg 30 and below

Bazball smh
 
Kohli said:
Back to square one

Let’s go through their averages again (of recent playing 11)


A Lees/ 24.8
Z Crawley/ 26.0
O Pope/ 30.1
J Root/ 50.3
J Bairstow/ 36.9
B Stokes/ 35.9
B Foakes/ 26.9

Just 1 batsman (in top 7) averages 37 & above (Root). Bairstow despite having a goat season is averaging less than 37

4 out of 7 are averaging below 30, and all 3 in top 3 avg 30 and below

Bazball smh
Click to expand...

Take a breath. They had one bad game. After winning four on the trot.
 
James said:
Take a breath. They had one bad game. After winning four on the trot.
Click to expand...

Not talking about winning or losing here. It is a part of the game.

Talking about the batsmen (apart from Root & Bairstow). Same problem exists.

Even those wins were coz of same Root, Bairstow and Stokes


You can’t have 4 batsmen averaging in 20s in top 7
 
Last edited:
Still too reliant on likes of Root, Bairstow, Stokes, and Butler.

New guys aren't being consistent.

Future is not looking that good right now but things can change.
 
<b>'The last two guys who nailed it at the top of the order in this country are both called Sir': England coach Brendon McCullum vows to give under-fire openers Zak Crawley and Alex Lees the opportunity to shine in Test team</b>

Brendon McCullum has given the clearest indication yet that England will take Zak Crawley and Alex Lees to Pakistan this winter – and pointed out that the last two English Test openers to ‘nail’ the position are now both called ‘Sir’.

Crawley and Lees gave their medium-term prospects a boost with England’s quickest-ever century opening stand, from just 17.2 overs, as South Africa were brushed aside at The Oval. It was the second time they had achieved the feat this season, having reached 100 off 19.5 against India at Edgbaston.

Despite those late-summer runs, however, Crawley averaged just 23 during the seven home Tests and Lees 25 – a familiar story for England openers since the retirement of the now-knighted Andrew Strauss in 2012 and Alastair Cook in 2018.

But while England will consider alternatives, with Nottinghamshire’s Ben Duckett in particular breathing down Lees’s neck, McCullum is also determined to give the incumbents a decent run before reaching a definitive conclusion.

‘We’re very quick to judge at times some of the things that aren’t working as well,’ said England’s head coach. ‘These are tough cricket wickets, really tough. The last two guys who nailed it at the top of the order in this country are both called “Sir”, so it’s not an easy thing to do.

‘We’ve got to allow these guys the time and opportunity to develop. You’ve got to allow that talent to come out.’

England’s support of Crawley and Lees stems partly from the fact that no Test opener of any nationality has thrived this summer, with high-class bowlers exploiting spicy pitches and the Dukes ball. While the England pair totalled 603 runs in 26 innings at a combined average of 24, six openers from New Zealand, India and South Africa managed 588 from 26 at an average of 22.

New Zealand’s Will Young and Tom Latham averaged 22 and 20, and South Africa’s Sarel Erwee and Dean Elgar 25 and 21. Seen in that light, Crawley and Lees have performed slightly above par.

The first Test at Rawalpindi does not begin until December 1, allowing McCullum time to reflect on a summer in which England thrillingly put behind them a sequence of one win out of 17 to win six out of seven.

Asked to nominate the highlight of his first few months in charge, he opted for England’s response to their only defeat, by South Africa at Lord’s.

‘You wouldn’t have known we’d lost in the dressing-room, and that’s such an important aspect of success and failure,’ he said.

‘They kept turning up, still had the smiles on their faces, stuck together, and hence we were able to hold the fort and get the results.

‘I was surprised how good we’ve been. I knew there was a lot of talent in English cricket, but I didn’t realise it was this much and the guys were as good as what they are. With Stokesy, I thought he’d be good as a leader, but I didn’t realise he’d be quite as good as what he is.

‘We’ve all seen the documentary, and the pressures he’s had going on in his life. You’re allowed to make mistakes when you’re younger and hopefully you’re meant to become a better version of yourself. Where he’s at right now, the person and the captain he is, is someone we can all be really proud of.’

Meanwhile, Stokes’s predecessor Joe Root has compared England’s red-ball revolution to their turnaround in white-ball fortunes seven years ago, saying he’s never had so much fun during his 10 years in international cricket.

‘There was a moment at Trent Bridge when me and Zak sat down in that last session with a crossword,’ he said, referring to England’s victory in the second Test over New Zealand and the merciless hitting of Jonny Bairstow.

‘We did one answer and within three overs, we’d put the book down and couldn’t take our eyes off it. It was like watching a highlights reel of a T20 game, never mind a Test match.

‘There is a small feeling of what it was like when we started to make those really big scores in the white-ball team. That’s the exciting thing – what is the limit, how far can we go? You look at what that team has achieved over a period of time. I know it is early days, but it is very exciting that there is the same sort of vibe around.’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...e-openers-Crawley-Lees-opportunity-shine.html
 
sweep_shot said:
Still too reliant on likes of Root, Bairstow, Stokes, and Butler.

New guys aren't being consistent.

Future is not looking that good right now but things can change.
Click to expand...

Buttler won't play tests again.

Prior averages 43 at #3, so we will keep him there.

Just need a couple of openers.....
 
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