What are Jinns in Quranic context in light of real world realities?

[Mughal]

Please share your views about jinns in quranic context when quranic text is looked at in light of real world realities. Kindly explain why you hold those views about jinns?

 

[Mughal]

Is everyone here afraid of saying something about jinns? I am here to take care of your demons so don't be afraid people.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I dont understand your question?

Jinns are just beings in a different form. Iblis was a Jinn.

 

[Nostalgic]

Is everyone here afraid of saying something about jinns? I am here to take care of your demons so don't be afraid people.

We have an "official" Jinn thread. I encourage you to post the question there, our bona fide resource for everything Jinn-related.

Or, I could just yell:

MODS! PLEASE MERGE!

 

[Mughal]

I dont understand your question?

Jinns are just beings in a different form. Iblis was a Jinn.

Thank you dear kingkhan sb, Iblis was a jinn yes but what are his abilities or capabilities as a jinn or what is his capacity or power? If iblis has powers then all jinns must have those powers as beings of same kind just like human kind, will they not?

BTW this thread is for finding out context of the quran regarding jinns, so I am going to raise a lot of questions about jinns as imagined by people who claim to be muslims. I am not willing to accept things people attribute to jinns as their powers etc which go against real world realities we observe constantly.

I understand story of adam and iblis in a very different way than most people imagine.

regards and all the best.

 

[Mughal]

We have an "official" Jinn thread. I encourage you to post the question there, our bona fide resource for everything Jinn-related.

Or, I could just yell:

MODS! PLEASE MERGE!

It will be better idea to leave this thread as it is because hopefully it is going to get very interesting. I will try to explain things in a very different way than people are used to.

Meanwhile it will help if you please tell us what are your views about jinns. Can jinns be human beings if not then why not? If yes, why? What sort of powers jinns have in your imagination?

regards and all the best.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Thank you dear kingkhan sb, Iblis was a jinn yes but what are his abilities or capabilities as a jinn or what is his capacity or power? If iblis has powers then all jinns must have those powers as beings of same kind just like human kind, will they not?

BTW this thread is for finding out context of the quran regarding jinns, so I am going to raise a lot of questions about jinns as imagined by people who claim to be muslims. I am not willing to accept things people attribute to jinns as their powers etc which go against real world realities we observe constantly.

I understand story of adam and iblis in a very different way than most people imagine.

regards and all the best.

Iblis was given the power to seduce, influence and misguide the first humans, which he continues to do to this day. Other Jinns are not all bad like Iblis, many are Muslims. As for their powers I dont know for sure but it's limited, i/e they cant kill you etc.

What is your view?

 

[Mughal]

Iblis was given the power to seduce, influence and misguide the first humans, which he continues to do to this day. Other Jinns are not all bad like Iblis, many are Muslims. As for their powers I dont know for sure but it's limited, i/e they cant kill you etc.

What is your view?

My view is jinns are human beings. They can do to each other what they like good or bad and they can lead each other right or wrong. Words used in the quran are misinterpreted by mullahs due to their lack of knowledge about real world realities. For example, people assume various powers for jinns and that jinns can possess human beings and human being can also possess jinns etc etc. Jinns can travel from one end of the world to the other in no time at all. If all this is assumes true then we can expect a lot of strange things happening all around us. Jinns are said to be like human beings ie having families and need living necessities. They also must be fighting with each other just like people.

If we leave our human kids in a room and things for them to play with and go away for a while then when we come back and see kids they usually have turned the room upside down. Think of same thing about jinn kids and jinns. Will we not see things flying about all the time without anyone visible moving them about? If we put something on a table in a room and leave in undisturbed when we come back it is still there unless something naturally happens which disturbs things eg earthquake etc.

If jinns were freely running about like people here and there then we will not see anything remaining in its place. If jinns were in possessions of people they could then empty the banks through jinns or steal weapons of enemies or spy for them. They could pick lottery numbers for people and likewise there is no end to these kinds of things happening. Not only that what science has told us today we will have known that centuries back because jinns will have told us what is going on in this universe.

Likewise holly men or saints etc are attributed so many powers and in that case same will be expected of them. But we do not see any such acts by jinns or people which are expected of them if they are what we are told they are and do what we are capable of doing.

People will be able to predict a lot of things precisely because jinns etc will tell them what to do and when to do or how to do and then those jijns will do those things themselves eg a jinn tells someone lottery numbers and then goes in the place where such numbers are chosen or decided and picks the ones he has already predicted. This is why I think all claims about jinns and their powers are false and for some reasons people have misinterpreted the quranic text just to justify their ignorance based whims.

regards and all the best.

 

[humzy]

My view is jinns are human beings. They can do to each other what they like good or bad and they can lead each other right or wrong. Words used in the quran are misinterpreted by mullahs due to their lack of knowledge about real world realities. For example, people assume various powers for jinns and that jinns can possess human beings and human being can also possess jinns etc etc. Jinns can travel from one end of the world to the other in no time at all. If all this is assumes true then we can expect a lot of strange things happening all around us. Jinns are said to be like human beings ie having families and need living necessities. They also must be fighting with each other just like people.

If we leave our human kids in a room and things for them to play with and go away for a while then when we come back and see kids they usually have turned the room upside down. Think of same thing about jinn kids and jinns. Will we not see things flying about all the time without anyone visible moving them about? If we put something on a table in a room and leave in undisturbed when we come back it is still there unless something naturally happens which disturbs things eg earthquake etc.

If jinns were freely running about like people here and there then we will not see anything remaining in its place. If jinns were in possessions of people they could then empty the banks through jinns or steal weapons of enemies or spy for them. They could pick lottery numbers for people and likewise there is no end to these kinds of things happening. Not only that what science has told us today we will have known that centuries back because jinns will have told us what is going on in this universe.

Likewise holly men or saints etc are attributed so many powers and in that case same will be expected of them. But we do not see any such acts by jinns or people which are expected of them if they are what we are told they are and do what we are capable of doing.

People will be able to predict a lot of things precisely because jinns etc will tell them what to do and when to do or how to do and then those jijns will do those things themselves eg a jinn tells someone lottery numbers and then goes in the place where such numbers are chosen or decided and picks the ones he has already predicted. This is why I think all claims about jinns and their powers are false and for some reasons people have misinterpreted the quranic text just to justify their ignorance based whims.

regards and all the best.

Jinns are alien species imo.

 

[Mughal]

Jinns are alien species imo.

No dear humzy jinns are not allian species as I understand the quranic text. There is no life outside planet earth as for as the quran is concerned the way I understand it.

However one day people will be able to travel the universe to see what God has created. This is long way away yet because people have yet to discover ways and means of travelling the universe safely. The earth is our training place so to speak. We have yet make great discoveries.

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

My view is jinns are human beings. They can do to each other what they like good or bad and they can lead each other right or wrong. Words used in the quran are misinterpreted by mullahs due to their lack of knowledge about real world realities. For example, people assume various powers for jinns and that jinns can possess human beings and human being can also possess jinns etc etc. Jinns can travel from one end of the world to the other in no time at all. If all this is assumes true then we can expect a lot of strange things happening all around us. Jinns are said to be like human beings ie having families and need living necessities. They also must be fighting with each other just like people.

If we leave our human kids in a room and things for them to play with and go away for a while then when we come back and see kids they usually have turned the room upside down. Think of same thing about jinn kids and jinns. Will we not see things flying about all the time without anyone visible moving them about? If we put something on a table in a room and leave in undisturbed when we come back it is still there unless something naturally happens which disturbs things eg earthquake etc.

If jinns were freely running about like people here and there then we will not see anything remaining in its place. If jinns were in possessions of people they could then empty the banks through jinns or steal weapons of enemies or spy for them. They could pick lottery numbers for people and likewise there is no end to these kinds of things happening. Not only that what science has told us today we will have known that centuries back because jinns will have told us what is going on in this universe.

Likewise holly men or saints etc are attributed so many powers and in that case same will be expected of them. But we do not see any such acts by jinns or people which are expected of them if they are what we are told they are and do what we are capable of doing.

People will be able to predict a lot of things precisely because jinns etc will tell them what to do and when to do or how to do and then those jijns will do those things themselves eg a jinn tells someone lottery numbers and then goes in the place where such numbers are chosen or decided and picks the ones he has already predicted. This is why I think all claims about jinns and their powers are false and for some reasons people have misinterpreted the quranic text just to justify their ignorance based whims.

regards and all the best.

In Surah Al Jinn, in the 5th verse it says "Al Ins wal Jinn" which translates to Jinn and humankind which means that they are two totally different entities. That alone made me stop reading everything else after your first line.

 

[DeadBall]

No dear humzy jinns are not allian species as I understand the quranic text. There is no life outside planet earth as for as the quran is concerned the way I understand it.

However one day people will be able to travel the universe to see what God has created. This is long way away yet because people have yet to discover ways and means of travelling the universe safely. The earth is our training place so to speak. We have yet make great discoveries.

regards and all the best.

It say Rab il Al'Alameen (God of the worlds) in the very first Surah of the Quran. Please take your pseudo religious views somewhere else.

 

[troodon]

Iblis was given the power to seduce, influence and misguide the first humans, which he continues to do to this day. Other Jinns are not all bad like Iblis, many are Muslims. As for their powers I dont know for sure but it's limited, i/e they cant kill you etc.

What is your view?

So its all Iblis the Jinn's fault?

 

[DeadBall]

So its all Iblis the Jinn's fault?

Yeah because he a Jinn (A superior and one of the most devoted servants of Allah) refused to bow down and postrate to an inferior creation (Man) and was thus cast out for having a mind of his own. But that is what religion is in the end. Mindless submission.

 

[DeadBall]

Good to see [MENTION=132843]Mughal[/MENTION] disappearing and not replying simple questions with short stories and pseudo religious mumbo jumbo anymore. Good riddance.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yeah because he a Jinn (A superior and one of the most devoted servants of Allah) refused to bow down and postrate to an inferior creation (Man) and was thus cast out for having a mind of his own. But that is what religion is in the end. Mindless submission.

Iblis was extremely devoted to the Almighty and refused to bow to anyone except Him. That is how I see it.

 

[DeadBall]

Iblis was extremely devoted to the Almighty and refused to bow to anyone except Him. That is how I see it.

True. It's like asking a DDL/Oldman fan bowing down to Ashton Kutcher. Pure humiliation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So its all Iblis the Jinn's fault?

Iblis was extremely devoted to the Almighty and refused to bow to anyone except Him. That is how I see it.

Jinn are not superiour to humans. If he was devoted he would have obeyed his Lord, he didn't out of arrogance. Iblis was then given the right to attempt to corrupt humans as he promised his Lord they would all also be disobodient like he was.

 

[Bewal Express]

So would i be right in thinking that we and Jinns entertain the same space but we cant see each other. I read somewhere that the string theory in Physics has a view that there are multiple universes which some people think fits in with jinns and humans and does anyone have a view on that.

 

[TM Riddle]

Iblis is misunderstood imo. Sam Winchester should have accepted the offer earlier.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So would i be right in thinking that we and Jinns entertain the same space but we cant see each other. I read somewhere that the string theory in Physics has a view that there are multiple universes which some people think fits in with jinns and humans and does anyone have a view on that.

The string theory is very interesting but I dont think it applies in this case as Jinns can see human and vice versa if Jinns decide to make themselves visible. Also both are supposed to be in the same time and space.

 

[KingKhanWC]

My view is jinns are human beings. They can do to each other what they like good or bad and they can lead each other right or wrong. Words used in the quran are misinterpreted by mullahs due to their lack of knowledge about real world realities. For example, people assume various powers for jinns and that jinns can possess human beings and human being can also possess jinns etc etc. Jinns can travel from one end of the world to the other in no time at all. If all this is assumes true then we can expect a lot of strange things happening all around us. Jinns are said to be like human beings ie having families and need living necessities. They also must be fighting with each other just like people.

If we leave our human kids in a room and things for them to play with and go away for a while then when we come back and see kids they usually have turned the room upside down. Think of same thing about jinn kids and jinns. Will we not see things flying about all the time without anyone visible moving them about? If we put something on a table in a room and leave in undisturbed when we come back it is still there unless something naturally happens which disturbs things eg earthquake etc.

If jinns were freely running about like people here and there then we will not see anything remaining in its place. If jinns were in possessions of people they could then empty the banks through jinns or steal weapons of enemies or spy for them. They could pick lottery numbers for people and likewise there is no end to these kinds of things happening. Not only that what science has told us today we will have known that centuries back because jinns will have told us what is going on in this universe.

Likewise holly men or saints etc are attributed so many powers and in that case same will be expected of them. But we do not see any such acts by jinns or people which are expected of them if they are what we are told they are and do what we are capable of doing.

People will be able to predict a lot of things precisely because jinns etc will tell them what to do and when to do or how to do and then those jijns will do those things themselves eg a jinn tells someone lottery numbers and then goes in the place where such numbers are chosen or decided and picks the ones he has already predicted. This is why I think all claims about jinns and their powers are false and for some reasons people have misinterpreted the quranic text just to justify their ignorance based whims.

regards and all the best.

Thanks, I've not come across this type of belief before so it's intresting.

Can you clarify this..

"My view is jinns are human beings."

"Jinns are said to be like human beings"

Which is it? Are they humans or like humans?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Jinn are not superiour to humans. If he was devoted he would have obeyed his Lord, he didn't out of arrogance. Iblis was then given the right to attempt to corrupt humans as he promised his Lord they would all also be disobodient like he was.

As a muslim one must only bow before Allah, and no one else. Iblis disobeying is a lesser sin than bowing before a creation of Allah. He did the right thing.

 

[hussain.r97]

Iblis was extremely devoted to the Almighty and refused to bow to anyone except Him. That is how I see it.

That is actually a very interesting way to look at it, and in fact, the Yezidis in Iraq/Syria believe exactly this. That is why they are often misunderstood to be satan worshippers.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That is actually a very interesting way to look at it, and in fact, the Yezidis in Iraq/Syria believe exactly this. That is why they are often misunderstood to be satan worshippers.

Just like extreme love turns violent and extreme patriotism turns into fascism, extreme devotion turns into blasphemy. Iblees had blasphemous devotion towards Allah.

 

[Mughal]

In Surah Al Jinn, in the 5th verse it says "Al Ins wal Jinn" which translates to Jinn and humankind which means that they are two totally different entities. That alone made me stop reading everything else after your first line.

Dear deadball, the quran was not revealed to be read in isolation instead it was revealed to be understood properly in light of real world realities. What does that mean? It means words used in the quran must be learned with their applications. If I say cup or chair it should mean something to my mind as to what it relates to or how or why. In other words we must learn words used in the quran as well as their detailed applications. If we have not discovered applications of a word then mere use of word is not going to mean anything to us.

To discover applications of a word we will have to go through a process to see how it can fit with other words. If we do not go through this process of learning then we will get stuck as to actual meanings of words in their contexts. For example, if I asked you to define word jinn for me you cannot because you never thought about it as to what it is used for. It is not just word jinn the same is true about any word about which we never think in detail but use it anyway and have some imaginary idea about it due to the way people around us use it from whom we pick up our human language.

Word jinn in the quranic context is not used for other than a human being but the quran categorises human beings for various reasons eg a human being is called bashar by the quran but why? Likewise a human being is called insaan by the quran, why. It calls a human being rajul, why? It calls a human being imrah, why? It calls a human being mushrik, why? It calls a human being kaafir, why? It calls a human being shaitaan, why? It calls a human malak, why? It calls a human being muslim, why?

Hopefully this should be sufficient to draw your attention to meanings of words and the reason behind those meanings. You need to realise why certain words have certain meanings. Once you realise that then you will start thinking why word jinn is used for human beings as well as other words. Just because something is identified differently from something else for some reason does not mean it is a different kind of thing in all its respects. A mushrik or kaafir is as human as a muslim. The quran tells the final messenger of God say, I am as human as you are but that God reveals his messages to me. Here a human being is called a nabi or rasool from God. So we can see the quran has a reason for calling anyone anything. Likewise the quran is not calling people jinns just for sake of it instead there has to be a reason for that.

It is now up to us to discover that reason. Not only reason for use of word jinn but any other word as well. If we do not get that reason right behind use of a word in the quran then our understanding of the quranic text will not be right as it is supposed to be.

Before we could get the reason right behind use of a word in the quran we will have to learn different meanings of the word because without that we will have no idea how to fit the word in context in its place of use. It is because it is not necessary that a word will always be used with same meaning throughout a piece of text or book. Our problem increases in case of the quran because it is word of God not word of a human beings. We know words of each other to some degree because we interact with each other on daily basis but we do not interact with God like that so we need to discover a mechanism where by we got words and their meanings. I have explained this in my other thread about logically consistent thinking.

Now the question is what is meaning of word jinn? In arabic language many words could be used for expressing same meaning and same word could be used for thousands of meanings. This makes it very difficult for us to interpret the text of the quran correctly but there is help in form of purpose of the text ie why the quiran was revealed. The purpose for which the quran was revealed helps us to contextualise the quran. Now we can choose only those meanings of words from a whole lot of them which fit the context and fulfil the purpose of revelation of the quran.

I will further explain things as I have time this is really a very time consuming thing.

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

]Dear deadball, the quran was not revealed to be read in isolation instead it was revealed to be understood properly in light of real world realities.[/B] What does that mean? It means words used in the quran must be learned with their applications. If I say cup or chair it should mean something to my mind as to what it relates to or how or why. In other words we must learn words used in the quran as well as their detailed applications. If we have not discovered applications of a word then mere use of word is not going to mean anything to us.

To discover applications of a word we will have to go through a process to see how it can fit with other words. If we do not go through this process of learning then we will get stuck as to actual meanings of words in their contexts. For example, if I asked you to define word jinn for me you cannot because you never thought about it as to what it is used for. It is not just word jinn the same is true about any word about which we never think in detail but use it anyway and have some imaginary idea about it due to the way people around us use it from whom we pick up our human language.

Word jinn in the quranic context is not used for other than a human being but the quran categorises human beings for various reasons eg a human being is called bashar by the quran but why? Likewise a human being is called insaan by the quran, why. It calls a human being rajul, why? It calls a human being imrah, why? It calls a human being mushrik, why? It calls a human being kaafir, why? It calls a human being shaitaan, why? It calls a human malak, why? It calls a human being muslim, why?

Hopefully this should be sufficient to draw your attention to meanings of words and the reason behind those meanings. You need to realise why certain words have certain meanings. Once you realise that then you will start thinking why word jinn is used for human beings as well as other words. Just because something is identified differently from something else for some reason does not mean it is a different kind of thing in all its respects. A mushrik or kaafir is as human as a muslim. The quran tells the final messenger of God say, I am as human as you are but that God reveals his messages to me. Here a human being is called a nabi or rasool from God. So we can see the quran has a reason for calling anyone anything. Likewise the quran is not calling people jinns just for sake of it instead there has to be a reason for that.

It is now up to us to discover that reason. Not only reason for use of word jinn but any other word as well. If we do not get that reason right behind use of a word in the quran then our understanding of the quranic text will not be right as it is supposed to be.

Before we could get the reason right behind use of a word in the quran we will have to learn different meanings of the word because without that we will have no idea how to fit the word in context in its place of use. It is because it is not necessary that a word will always be used with same meaning throughout a piece of text or book. Our problem increases in case of the quran because it is word of God not word of a human beings. We know words of each other to some degree because we interact with each other on daily basis but we do not interact with God like that so we need to discover a mechanism where by we got words and their meanings. I have explained this in my other thread about logically consistent thinking.

Now the question is what is meaning of word jinn? In arabic language many words could be used for expressing same meaning and same word could be used for thousands of meanings. This makes it very difficult for us to interpret the text of the quran correctly but there is help in form of purpose of the text ie why the quiran was revealed. The purpose for which the quran was revealed helps us to contextualise the quran. Now we can choose only those meanings of words from a whole lot of them which fit the context and fulfil the purpose of revelation of the quran.

I will further explain things as I have time this is really a very time consuming thing.

regards and all the best.

You mean like the real world realities of not being stoned for infidelity? Even though the Quran like all religious texts can be open to interpretation the verse I quoted is pretty straight forward. Once again I stopped reading after your first sentence. You can use your flawed reasoning to fool the illiterate masses (as do all the pseudo "Mullahs") but not someone who has actually studied the religion in depth. You can keep off the essays and just reply to the various contradictions in your posts pointed out by many posters here including myself.

P.S - Do not use the usual cop out of the Arabic language as it is my mother language and I am pretty sure is not yours.

 

[Mughal]

You mean like the real world realities of not being stoned for infidelity? Even though the Quran like all religious texts can be open to interpretation the verse I quoted is pretty straight forward. Once again I stopped reading after your first sentence. You can use your flawed reasoning to fool the illiterate masses (as do all the pseudo "Mullahs") but not someone who has actually studied the religion in depth. You can keep off the essays and just reply to the various contradictions in your posts pointed out by many posters here including myself.

P.S - Do not use the usual cop out of the Arabic language as it is my mother language and I am pretty sure is not yours.

Dear deadball, do you accept the quran as word of God or not?

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

Dear deadball, do you accept the quran as word of God or not?

regards and all the best.

Do you? You said you thought Jinns were human beings but it very specifically says in the Quran that they are not. Also just answer with a yes or a no and not one of your essays.

 

[Mughal]

 

[Mughal]

 

[Mughal]

 

[yasir]

Story of Adam and Eve getting kicked out of heaven is very childish, it amazes me how can billions of people don't question it. How old was Adam when God gave him instructions of not eating the forbidden fruit? - This sort of instruction, one can give it to five years old, not to an adult.

Secondly, why he does not gave him the reasons? - Obedience and intelligence does not go very well together. God at times take a great pride in creating AI robots aka Human, who have free will. At the same time the very first test he gave him is a very dumb one(that does not require intelligence), did he wanted a dumb Obedient solider or AI being? - Why was (and still is) obedience is such a high value trait in the eye of God, when freewill is most marketed commodity in the new species. Top that with whole Devil/Satan story, so AI is not that intelligent but can be overriden by rogue agent like Devil. God is not improving upon his creation(he is not admitting to his faulty creation ) that can be resilience against introducers but just throwing them in new env with the so called life of misery, without any upgrades. This whole story is childish and does not make any sense. Its a very poor origin story

One of the reason Obedience is preferred over intelligence in all religious stories, because at that time, rulers need to build big and faithful armies to sustain and expand their rule, everybody was doing that, you need more dumb soldiers than thinkers. They marketed those skills as the most important one. Now great economies and civilizations are build by a whole different skill sets, you need intellect not faith or obedience to sustain and expand the rule, prosperity in masses comes through higher level of intellect in society not by the number of faithfuls, who don't question the fundamentals!!

 

[Mughal]

Do you? You said you thought Jinns were human beings but it very specifically says in the Quran that they are not. Also just answer with a yes or a no and not one of your essays.

Dear deadball, you have stated the quran clearly states the jinns are not human beings. Could you please quote the verse for me because I am not aware of any such verse in the quran. In my view just because human beings are called jinns does not mean jinns are not human beings. Moreover word jinn is open for use on anything that qualifies for use of this term as its description. That is because word jinn has many meanings for various reasons as I have explained already.

regards and all the best.

 

[Mughal]

Thanks, I've not come across this type of belief before so it's intresting.

Can you clarify this..

"My view is jinns are human beings."

"Jinns are said to be like human beings"

Which is it? Are they humans or like humans?

Dear khan sb, the quran tells us Allah sent messengers and they were all human beings as well as men ie they were all rijaal=men as well as bashar=men of flesh and blood. They were sent to annaas as well as aljinn and they were from among them.

If we put these verses together the result is they were human beings but for some reason they were called annaas and aljinn. This means we need to know meanings of words jinn and naas. Why some human beings are called naas is because they want to mix with other human beings or want to get on with others or do not want to be strangers or foreigners or unfamiliar for others or do not want to distant themselves from others or stay aloof from others etc etc. Other human beings are called jinns because they do not want to mix with other human beings so they are in a way distanced from others as if they are strangers or foreigners for other human beings ie they think they do not belong to the crowd of humanity but are born to rule them. Word jinn has many meanings besides these such as experts in a field, ruling elite, influential human beings eg chiefs or leaders or rulers or people living away from cities ie nomads or gypsies etc. People living in mountains or valleys or who come from other cities etc etc. Big people or giants or people with power or authority etc etc.

See verses 2/124,213, 3/33, 4/1, 6/83-87,128, 7/10-27,69-71,158,179,189, 15/26-48, 16/43, 17/37,93, 18/50, 21/7-8, 38/10, 40/26,37,56, 41/6, 46/29, 51/56, 55/33, 64/5-6, 72/-,

In the quranic context it is clear all prophets came from children of adam, noah, abraham etc. They were not jinns but bashars ir human beings.

In 18/50 shaitan is said to be jinn ie those who separate or move away from other people. All people like that are called children of shaitan just like party of God and party of shaitan or children of adam and children of shaitan or iblis etc.

In 2/30-39. The story is not about adam and his wife but adam and his party or company of people. God sent him message to establish kingdom of God on basis of what was revealed to him. They all submitted but not iblis and his party they moved away and created troubles for them. This is what the story of adam and his children is in 5/27. A group of people decides to live for each other and the other group which decides to live for themselves on the backs of the rest ie peopel who sucked blood of others. So God accepts the way of life of those who live according to his guidance and rejects the way of life of those who oppose it. So in the quranic context people are mainly categorised into three main groups a)who wish to live by guidance of Allah and b)those who clearly reject it and c)yet others who are in between two groups for various reasons explained in the quran.

Word shaitan means a human being who wishes to dominate others by undermining them ie who wishes to take over rest of mankind as their ruler or master. This is what ruling elite has been doing ever since. This is why deen of islam remains the very same ever since.

At the moment I do not have time to go into needed details of things but this should help people study the quran for themselves rather than following nonsense found in books of tafaseer whereby the quran itself is misinterpreted and misrepresented by mullahs due to their lack of thinking logically consistently.

This should also make clear why people raise nonsense objections against the quran. It is because they read mistranslations of the text of the quran by mullahs and those who have mistranslated the quran due to following mullahs nonsense.

They created a lot of nonsense about shaitan and jinns which when looked at in light of real world realities becomes very obvious. It shows mullahs have been creating make beliefs and then they have been twisting words used in the quran and hadith to suit their make beliefs which turned deen of islam in to a joke that everyone is laughing at worldwide.

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

Dear deadball, you have stated the quran clearly states the jinns are not human beings. Could you please quote the verse for me because I am not aware of any such verse in the quran. In my view just because human beings are called jinns does not mean jinns are not human beings. Moreover word jinn is open for use on anything that qualifies for use of this term as its description. That is because word jinn has many meanings for various reasons as I have explained already.

regards and all the best.

In Surah Al Jinn, in the 5th verse it says "Al Ins wal Jinn" which translates to Jinn and humankind which means that they are two totally different entities.

Right there.

 

[Mughal]

Nonsense of mullahs about deen of islam.

 

[Mughal]

 

[Mughal]

 

[DeadBall]

Nonsense of mullahs about deen of islam.

]

And what about your nonsense in reference to Djins? Am still awaiting clarification regarding your earlier claims.

 

[Mughal]

 

[Mughal]

And what about your nonsense in reference to Djins? Am still awaiting clarification regarding your earlier claims.

Dear deadball, you have not provided any proof for your claim. Can you tell me meanings of letter WOW? The origin and of letter wow and how it got its meanings?

I will come to words later first let us figure out origin of arabic letters and their meanings. If you need help see my other threads.

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

Dear deadball, you have not provided any proof for your claim. Can you tell me meanings of letter WOW? The origin and of letter wow and how it got its meanings?

I will come to words later first let us figure out origin of arabic letters and their meanings. If you need help see my other threads.

regards and all the best.]

What are you going on about waw (و) now? Waw is the alphabet and in this context it is wa and al, (wal which means "and the").

Now answer this first

Dear deadball, you have stated the quran clearly states the jinns are not human beings. Could you please quote the verse for me because I am not aware of any such verse in the quran. In my view just because human beings are called jinns does not mean jinns are not human beings. Moreover word jinn is open for use on anything that qualifies for use of this term as its description. That is because word jinn has many meanings for various reasons as I have explained already.

regards and all the best.

In Surah Al Jinn, in the 5th verse it says "Al Ins wal Jinn" which translates to Jinn and humankind which means that they are two totally different entities.

 

[Mughal]

What are you going on about waw (و) now? Answer this first

Dear deadball, I want to know what do you know about origin of human language and its development. What do you know about the quran and its origin and how do you know what its each and every word could mean if it is word of God?

I suggest you pick up a worthwhile dictionary and see in there in how many different contexts a word is used. Think about origin of words and their meaning and the mechanism involved. You have no choice but to agree that words have various meanings in each and every language.

Each and every arabic letter has meanings and most of them have been adopted from hebrew language. This is why meanings of words used in the quranic text are to be interpreted in the quranic context and to know the quranic context there are rules to be followed eg the quran must be interpreted in light of real world realities and that there should not be any contradiction within the quranic message due to interpretation of the text nor there should occur any conflict between the message of the quran and the real world realities.

By interpreting words ins and jinn the way you do you are introducing contradictions within the message of the quran as well as between the message of the quran and the real world realities as explained by me. It is your way of looking at the quranic message that I do not think you believe in the quran as word of God but I do due to my way of looking at the quranic message.

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

Dear deadball, I want to know what do you know about origin of human language and its development. What do you know about the quran and its origin and how do you know what its each and every word could mean if it is word of God?

I suggest you pick up a worthwhile dictionary and see in there in how many different contexts a word is used. Think about origin of words and their meaning and the mechanism involved. You have no choice but to agree that words have various meanings in each and every language.

Each and every arabic letter has meanings and most of them have been adopted from hebrew language. This is why meanings of words used in the quranic text are to be interpreted in the quranic context and to know the quranic context there are rules to be followed eg the quran must be interpreted in light of real world realities and that there should not be any contradiction within the quranic message due to interpretation of the text nor there should occur any conflict between the message of the quran and the real world realities.

By interpreting words ins and jinn the way you do you are introducing contradictions within the message of the quran as well as between the message of the quran and the real world realities as explained by me. It is your way of looking at the quranic message that I do not think you believe in the quran as word of God but I do due to my way of looking at the quranic message.

regards and all the best.

Classic escapism. I know the Hebraic origin of the word but it still means "and" in this context.

You can believe what you want but don't portray it as the truth to misguide the less knowledgeable, especially when disregarding the other "interpretations" by other "Mullahs" and claiming them to be nonsense.

 

[Mughal]

Classic escapism. I know the Hebraic origin of the word but it still means "and" in this context.

You can believe what you want but don't portray it as the truth to misguide the less knowledgeable, especially when disregarding the other "interpretations" by other "Mullahs" and claiming them to be nonsense.

Dear deadball, the quran does not depend merely on interpretations by people but on correct interpretation by people and that is what one is to accept and reject all others. Hindus worship many Gods, have I no right to ask them how do they know there are many Gods and that they are looking for their pooja by humanity? Christian believe jesus is God and they worship him, have I no right to ask them what is their source and how do they know it is true? For the very same reason I have every right to question muslim as well as nonmuslim interpretations of the quran till both sides are able to explain the quran in its proper context.

Truth is not decided by majority of people but on basis of what makes best or perfect sense. Nonsense is nonsense no matter where it is coming from or by who. A sensible thing is sensible even if it is coming from a person who is famous for nonsense. So you are wrong in telling me I cannot challenge quranic interpretation of mullahs or anyone else. If my interpretation of the quran makes better sense then that is what people should accept and not of mullahs or muslims or nonmuslims.

Letter wow means and but why and what does word and mean? Not only that but also what is symbol for letter wow in ancient inscriptions? It is symbolised as a hook this is why it can have many meanings not just and. It means link or linkage or connection or contact or bond or relationship or tie or knot or joint or hook and I can go on and on. It can also mean something bent or twisted or turned or crooked etc etc. If you read dictionaries you will see in there words have meanings but there in are given reasons why words or letters have those meanings. To know this is of vital importance if one talks about the message of God. Why? Because God is not our next door neighbour that we have been interacting with and therefore know what he means by words he uses. This is why to interpret the quran properly one has to learn or know these things.

Also we have the quran and we are told it is word of God therefore we start learning it as it claims and see if it stands to reason or not. This is why before we open our mouths about the quran we must learn how to interpret the quran properly and we cannot do that unless we know how language works in case of expression of thoughts of God but in human words. This is why there has to be a mechanism which works before we could use it to interpret the quran properly. It is because God's use of our human language is a very strange thing. Unless people get this vitally important point they have no leg to stand upon when it comes to interpreting the message in the quran. Before we could decode a code we must come to know how to do that.

Human language is invented by humans not God but he provided the means for humans to do so just like we invented cars and aeroplanes etc etc. God only does what he is supposed to do but rest is up to rest of things and people who are all participating in the project by God. Each and every being must play its assigned part so that purpose for which God created the universe and people in it becomes fulfilled as per plan of God. For people the quran provides program of God which needs implementation by people so that purpose of God could be served by humanity. This purpose is not pooja of God as told by mullahs and blindly followed by mullah slaves. But that I may explain later if I have the time.

regards and all the best.

 

[DeadBall]

Dear deadball, the quran does not depend merely on interpretations by people but on correct interpretation by people and that is what one is to accept and reject all others. Hindus worship many Gods, have I no right to ask them how do they know there are many Gods and that they are looking for their pooja by humanity? Christian believe jesus is God and they worship him, have I no right to ask them what is their source and how do they know it is true? For the very same reason I have every right to question muslim as well as nonmuslim interpretations of the quran till both sides are able to explain the quran in its proper context.

Truth is not decided by majority of people but on basis of what makes best or perfect sense. Nonsense is nonsense no matter where it is coming from or by who. A sensible thing is sensible even if it is coming from a person who is famous for nonsense. So you are wrong in telling me I cannot challenge quranic interpretation of mullahs or anyone else. If my interpretation of the quran makes better sense then that is what people should accept and not of mullahs or muslims or nonmuslims.

Letter wow means and but why and what does word and mean? Not only that but also what is symbol for letter wow in ancient inscriptions? It is symbolised as a hook this is why it can have many meanings not just and. It means link or linkage or connection or contact or bond or relationship or tie or knot or joint or hook and I can go on and on. It can also mean something bent or twisted or turned or crooked etc etc. If you read dictionaries you will see in there words have meanings but there in are given reasons why words or letters have those meanings. To know this is of vital importance if one talks about the message of God. Why? Because God is not our next door neighbour that we have been interacting with and therefore know what he means by words he uses. This is why to interpret the quran properly one has to learn or know these things.

Also we have the quran and we are told it is word of God therefore we start learning it as it claims and see if it stands to reason or not. This is why before we open our mouths about the quran we must learn how to interpret the quran properly and we cannot do that unless we know how language works in case of expression of thoughts of God but in human words. This is why there has to be a mechanism which works before we could use it to interpret the quran properly. It is because God's use of our human language is a very strange thing. Unless people get this vitally important point they have no leg to stand upon when it comes to interpreting the message in the quran. Before we could decode a code we must come to know how to do that.

Human language is invented by humans not God but he provided the means for humans to do so just like we invented cars and aeroplanes etc etc. God only does what he is supposed to do but rest is up to rest of things and people who are all participating in the project by God. Each and every being must play its assigned part so that purpose for which God created the universe and people in it becomes fulfilled as per plan of God. For people the quran provides program of God which needs implementation by people so that purpose of God could be served by humanity. This purpose is not pooja of God as told by mullahs and blindly followed by mullah slaves. But that I may explain later if I have the time.

regards and all the best.

So trying to change the topic to pooja and what not now. Anyway I stopped reading after the bolded part as you are basically saying that you have made the best interpretation possible and all "sensible" people should follow it? What may be nonsense to one person may be sensible to the other. It is all opinion in the end and yours isn't very learned.

You are another one of those people who change subject whenever asked a direct question and run for cover when asked for actual facts and think you can hide behind translation.

I will make it my thing to expose people like you here who tend to ramble on without actually saying anything and try to fool the masses.

 

[PetroDollars]

Jiins and angels are just part of religious dogma, like many other fairytales religous people belive in, such as god being almost like a human figure sitting in space, he made adam with his hands and sent him down to earth, miricles etc.

What the prophets and ancients spoke about when talking about devils was the chatter and ego in the mind, which we now in science have discovered that it comes FROM THE REPTAILIAN AND MONKEY part of the brain known as the amygdala and the limbic system. The part which evolved from reptailes and other mammals. This is what needs to be controlled.

 

[Pakpak]

[MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] please listen to this

 

[DeadBall]

[MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] please listen to this

Not going to waste my time with this but saw the first 3 minutes, made it to the first point though about Djinns falling in love. Sounded like the Djinn version of The Notebook.

 

[DeadBall]

Jiins and angels are just part of religious dogma, like many other fairytales religous people belive in, such as god being almost like a human figure sitting in space, he made adam with his hands and sent him down to earth, miricles etc.

What the prophets and ancients spoke about when talking about devils was the chatter and ego in the mind, which we now in science have discovered that it comes FROM THE REPTAILIAN AND MONKEY part of the brain known as the amygdala and the limbic system. The part which evolved from reptailes and other mammals. This is what needs to be controlled.

Problem here is that he trying to fool the religious people with his mumbo jumbo. Many religious people depend on rulings from the Ullema (scholars) for the more complex cases and believe me there are many complex ones. He is however just using his "interpretations" and various nonsensical links just to further his own propaganda.

Also on topic, the basal ganglia (or reptilian part of us) is not that easily controlled as it is our most basic and primal part and is the basis for why we are still here today. Not to be confused with the limbic system (monkey part as you so put it) which is much more recent and evolved.

 

[Sirris]

I'd like to know if Jinns can see Iblis, the Islamic Satan.

Apparently a group of Jinns heard Quranic recitation and became Muslim Jinns. How come they are not fighting the Iblis personally and help spread of God's true message. After all it is Iblis's persuasion skills for most part which prevents men from acknowledging the true word of God.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I'd like to know if Jinns can see Iblis, the Islamic Satan.

Apparently a group of Jinns heard Quranic recitation and became Muslim Jinns. How come they are not fighting the Iblis personally and help spread of God's true message. After all it is Iblis's persuasion skills for most part which prevents men from acknowledging the true word of God.

Many Jinns have been Muslims since day 1. They are just like humans in terms of either accepting their Lord or not. Im not sure what you mean regarding fighting Iblis.