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What are your views on British Pakistanis who can't speak Urdu?

mz123

mz123

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When I see British Pakistanis who don't even know a single word of Urdu, and just talk english 24 h with their strange accent, it angers me and disappoints me a lot. They look perfectly Pakistani from the outside (that's why at first sight I am happy to see that many people of my community are living here), but when they open their mouth, I literally want to slap them. I mean, most of them don't even have anything in common with Pakistanis (except the looks of course).
 
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
 
mz123 said:
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
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Maybe you should stop judging others and let them go on with their lives as long as they aren't physically hurting you
 
mz123 said:
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
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Because Pakistanis in Pakistan are very enlightened about true essence of Islam and are great ambassadors of their religion.
 
British Pakistanis are born up and brought up in an atmosphere where the majority speaks English so it's natural why most get used to speaking in English in daily usage.

However, what surprised me back in Pakistan was the growing trend among the Upper Middle and Upper Class where Parents speak only in English with their Children and encouraging English among them and even the Kids are interacting with each other in English. It's a growing competition among the families regarding whose children speak the best ENGLISH or which school has better English speaking culture among the students.

And in all this, Urdu has been left as a Language to communicate only with the lower echelons of society that are illiterate or not posh enough to talk in English. Like dealing with drivers, servants.
 
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In my observation, Brit Paks are more accustomed to speak Punjabi /Potohri at home than Urdu.
 
most of are backgrounds are from Potohar or Mirpur where Urdu isn't our mother tongue nor the mother tongue of our parents and grandparents so why would we go out of our way to learn Urdu. Nothing but elitist rubbish in the OP

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We speak English because we live in England and talking about people not being religious. You get a lot more Hijabs Niqabs and Thobes amongst British Pakistanis on average than a Pakistani from Pakistan.

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I would rather have them speak in English and integrate with English people instead of creating a linguistic divide. Besides, Urdu is not their mother tongue so even speaking in Punjabi or Potahri keeps them intact to their Pakistani roots, Urdu is no litmus test of a pride in Pakistani roots
 
Please do keep in mind that im not talking abt ALL british pakistanis.....
 
Urdu is the national language of Pakistan. It's not our mother tongue. Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Kashmiri, Balochi etc... are. We don't live in Pakistan so we have no reason to learn Urdu.
 
hafeezrocks said:
However, what surprised me back in Pakistan was the growing trend among the Upper Middle and Upper Class where Parents speak only in English with their Children and encouraging English among them and even the Kids are interacting with each other in English. It's a growing competition among the families regarding whose children speak the best ENGLISH or which school has better English speaking culture among the students.

And in all this, Urdu has been left as a Language to communicate only with the lower echelons of society that are illiterate or not posh enough to talk in English. Like dealing with drivers, servants.
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Good. Urdu was never the language of 90% of Pakistanis, I'm happy it's being replaced with English. English should always have been the national language, not Urdu.
 
hafeezrocks said:
British Pakistanis are born up and brought up in an atmosphere where the majority speaks English so it's natural why most get used to speaking in English in daily usage.

However, what surprised me back in Pakistan was the growing trend among the Upper Middle and Upper Class where Parents speak only in English with their Children and encouraging English among them and even the Kids are interacting with each other in English. It's a growing competition among the families regarding whose children speak the best ENGLISH or which school has better English speaking culture among the students.

And in all this, Urdu has been left as a Language to communicate only with the lower echelons of society that are illiterate or not posh enough to talk in English. Like dealing with drivers, servants.
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You are wrong here
Punjabi and Seraiki serve that purpose
 
Well you can not force people to learn their mother tongues, but if they have relatives in Pakistan and they visit Pakistan they should learn their local language spoken back home.

And honestly there is no excuse whatsoever not to learn another language.

Here in Norway almost every child knows Urdu, punjabi or pahadi. And remember that we have to learn norwegian first.
And when the children starts at school aged 6 they also start learning english. So basically every pakistani child is learning 3 different languages.

And later on we also have to select between french, german and russian.

So it's poor stuff from parents first and foremost in GB if they don't teach their children a second language, especially if they often travel to Pakistan.

And studies here in Norway have shown that children who have two languages learn other languages quickly and are good pupils in general.
 
Have to agree with some of the folks here regarding growing obsession with English. Just imagine the embarrassment a Pakistani Cricketer has to go through if he is unable to communicate in English during the presentation ceremony, speaking in Urdu would make him a laughing stock among the people back home who would regard him as a Jaahil.

OTOH, speaking in English is seen as a reflection of being Well educated, having a Sophisticated Background and good upbringing whereas Urdu is opposite of it.
 
Don't pakistani dramas use Urdu? then how is it a servants language ? Seems to me if you need to get into Pakistani TV then you need to know urdu.
 
mz123 said:
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
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Well they come from Britain itself and I'm pretty sure most of them know all about Britain.
 
niishaa said:
Don't pakistani dramas use Urdu? then how is it a servants language ? Seems to me if you need to get into Pakistani TV then you need to know urdu.
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Just as Bollywood using Hindi doesn't necessarily make Hindi a classy language or the language of elites.

Even the Bollywood actors and actresses of today's era are ashamed to communicate in Hindi in Public so they use English while conducting press conference or giving interviews or even during Award ceremonies.

Hindi is used only during films to target the vast majority that isn't fluent in English.

How many parents would send their Children to Hindi or vernacular medium schools over an English one and how many opt for the reverse ? You know the answer.

Even right not here in this forum people are discussing in English because apart from being considered an Elite, Cool language it has also become a must for practical purposes.
 
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People adopted Urdu because it was the language of a few elites. They never had any ancestral connection to it. Now that English has replaced Urdu as the language of the elites, Urdu has lot all purpose. The same superficiality that lead to people learning it is leading to its demise. Nothing to cry about. It's for the better anyways, Urdu was always stilted and ugly, English is an improvement on it.
 
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endymion248 said:
People adopted Urdu because it was the language of a few elites. They never had any ancestral connection to it. Now that English has replaced Urdu as the language of the elites, Urdu has lot all purpose. The same superficiality that lead to people learning it is leading to its demise. Nothing to cry about. It's for the better anyways, Urdu was always stilted and ugly, English is an improvement on it.
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Why do you despise Urdu so much?
 
endymion248 said:
People adopted Urdu because it was the language of a few elites. They never had any ancestral connection to it. Now that English has replaced Urdu as the language of the elites, Urdu has lot all purpose. The same superficiality that lead to people learning it is leading to its demise. Nothing to cry about. It's for the better anyways, Urdu was always stilted and ugly, English is an improvement on it.
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Hmmm...I would disagree there, I think Urdu is a beautiful language, if too formal for me to enjoy using it in day to day life. It's useful for the very rare occasion I might want to watch a Bollywood film as Hindi is basically the same language. Although as someone has already pointed out, in most Bollywood films the dialogue is half English as well these days.
 
niishaa said:
Don't pakistani dramas use Urdu? then how is it a servants language ? Seems to me if you need to get into Pakistani TV then you need to know urdu.
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Some people live in an alternate world
 
mz123 said:
why isn't it man !!! every pakistani should learn urdu, it should be their mother tongue
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How about Punjabi or Sindhi or Pashto?

Majority of Pak people's mother tongue is not Urdu. Its a foreign language to most Pakistanis. Just an adopted one.
 
Urdu won a convincing No Battle contest when it was up against regional languages like Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Seraiki. But ever since the emergence of English and it's Global appeal, it has lost the appeal among the elites which it previously enjoyed. Today the elites speak in English and the ones who aspire to climb the social ladder want to learn English, not Urdu.

But I wouldn't complain much though. In the past, regional languages were being neglected to further the cause of Urdu Imperialism. Now, Urdu is being meted out the same treatment in name of Globalization and losing its appeal to English.
 
Glad to see Urdu in Pakistan is facing the same fate which Hindi in India is going through. Hindi is promoted by the state, and is claimed as the de facto national language by the hindi imperialists, but is now reduced to a language used to communicate with the labour class. We elites have moved to English as our signature language.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Glad to see Urdu in Pakistan is facing the same fate which Hindi in India is going through. Hindi is promoted by the state, and is claimed as the de facto national language by the hindi imperialists, but is now reduced to a language used to communicate with the labour class. We elites have moved to English as our signature language.
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Since when are you part of the elite?
 
Not a big deal, as long as they don't pretend that they are true patriots of Pakistan.
 
endymion248 said:
People adopted Urdu because it was the language of a few elites. They never had any ancestral connection to it. Now that English has replaced Urdu as the language of the elites, Urdu has lot all purpose. The same superficiality that lead to people learning it is leading to its demise. Nothing to cry about. It's for the better anyways, Urdu was always stilted and ugly, English is an improvement on it.
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Lols what rubbish.
 
endymion248 said:
People adopted Urdu because it was the language of a few elites. They never had any ancestral connection to it. Now that English has replaced Urdu as the language of the elites, Urdu has lot all purpose. The same superficiality that lead to people learning it is leading to its demise. Nothing to cry about. It's for the better anyways, Urdu was always stilted and ugly, English is an improvement on it.
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utter rubbish man ! where are you from ?
 
I can understand Urdu but lack the confidence to speak it without using Pothwari words. At home my kids speak English to each other, even though I am embarrassed by relatives because they think I have gorified my kids. This criticism is valid but it's very difficult to do anything about it. But Urdu is not on the radar but it is very lovely language because even when you swear at people, it seems to be done very diplomatically.
 
My kids are absolutely gorified, but at the same time they are proud as hell Pakistanis and Brits. Mamoon's worst nightmare basically. My relatives are in absolute awe of the tremendous upbringing I have given them and while it's not considered good form to blow your own trumpet, it's a well deserved title.
 
But...Pakistanis in HK do not converse in Cantonese.Instead, they stick to their Pothwari, Punjabi and Pashto.

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No big deal. Urdu serves as a lingua Franca in Pakistan so you expect everyone to speak it. What is the point of learning Urdu in western countries? At the most they might learn their native language but who are we to judge. You live your life and let others live theirs.
 
What are your views on British Pakistanis who can't speak English even after living in England for 10+ years ?
 
mz123 said:
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
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Who cares about Islam? And why should it anger you?
 
saeedhk said:
But...Pakistanis in HK do not converse in Cantonese.Instead, they stick to their Pothwari, Punjabi and Pashto.

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Hong Kong Pakistanis and U.K Pakistanis have different circumstances.

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Their life, they can speak whatever they want. Although I do think British Pakistani should speak Urdu or Punjabi, it isn't something that is necessary to survive in Britain. I think people like the OP should be a bit less judgemental and not expect everyone to live by their set standards and rules.
 
Its not a must to learn the language even if its mother tongue,its good to know but the language should have either literature,influence or a necessity for the children to learn them.

English is growing among young Indians because our education is in English,the movies we like are mostly Hollywood,TV shows,books everything being fed is English.

Hindi is not able to compete one reason being bollywood and Hindi writers aren't that great that they are keeping the majority into the language,even the bollywood songs are now in Punjabi(which has shabby literature itself but a very "loud" culture).
 
mz123 said:
When I see British Pakistanis who don't even know a single word of Urdu, and just talk english 24 h with their strange accent, it angers me and disappoints me a lot. They look perfectly Pakistani from the outside (that's why at first sight I am happy to see that many people of my community are living here), but when they open their mouth, I literally want to slap them. I mean, most of them don't even have anything in common with Pakistanis (except the looks of course).
Click to expand...

So? Should they be forced to learn urdu? They have Pakistani roots...that's it.
 
My cousins born and bred in England don't know a word of Urdu, hence they are cut off from their relatives who don't happen to live in England. I would be surprised if they remember who their extended family is. I personally think their parents should have spoken in Urdu with them due to a fact living in England they will learn English anyway.

It is also a good thing for one who happens to speak and understand multiple languages.
 
Not all Pakistani's mother language is Urdu though. Some speak Pashto, Pathwari, Hinko etc.

However it is dissapointing yes. Some don't know the culture, history of Pakistan and end up assuming negative regarding the country.

Some don't even know where there parents are from back home!
 
The thing I find most funny is when I see Pakistani parents speak broken English with their kids because they were too lazy to teach them their mother tongue. It's ridiculous from these Pakistani parents. I would definitely teach my kids Urdu.
 
mz123 said:
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
Click to expand...
First of all, technically speaking, there is no such thing as 'British Pakistanis'. They, like me, are British citizens of Pakistani origin, either directly by being born in Pakistan (like me), or indirectly because their parents and/or grandparents were born in Pakistan.

Secondly, they, and/or their parents, and/or their grandparents, left Pakistan to make a new life in the UK. Had they wanted to 'remain Pakistanis', they would have remained in Pakistan and not emigrated to the UK!

And last, but not least, it's a bit rich of you, who's obviously also currently living in the UK, to be pontificating about British citizens of Pakistani origin who are living in the UK.

If it angers you so much then there's a simple remedy to assuage your anger .... getting down to Heathrow asap might help ...
 
JaDed said:
Its not a must to learn the language even if its mother tongue,its good to know but the language should have either literature,influence or a necessity for the children to learn them.

English is growing among young Indians because our education is in English,the movies we like are mostly Hollywood,TV shows,books everything being fed is English.

Hindi is not able to compete one reason being bollywood and Hindi writers aren't that great that they are keeping the majority into the language,even the bollywood songs are now in Punjabi(which has shabby literature itself but a very "loud" culture).
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Punjabi has a loud culture because that is their culture. That's no reason it should become a dominant voice unless Bollywood itself is just aiming to the mass market. That's capitalism for you, can't argue against the market.
 
UP said:
My cousins born and bred in England don't know a word of Urdu, hence they are cut off from their relatives who don't happen to live in England. I would be surprised if they remember who their extended family is. I personally think their parents should have spoken in Urdu with them due to a fact living in England they will learn English anyway.

It is also a good thing for one who happens to speak and understand multiple languages.
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It's a good thing. But saying I am disappointed and angry over Pakistani origin people speaking Englsih is not a good thing. People should be able to speak whatever language they want.
 
I don't get this dual tag of British Pakistani. Either you are a British or a Pakistani. I can't force anyone, but it should be one.

I know some have an emotional attachment to Pakistan more than just Cricket, but they live outside because of personal compulsions, such cases are respectable. But there are some who only support Pakistan's cricket team, while on the other hand they happily live outside, such people better call themselves British.
 
mz123 said:
When I see British Pakistanis who don't even know a single word of Urdu, and just talk english 24 h with their strange accent, it angers me and disappoints me a lot. They look perfectly Pakistani from the outside (that's why at first sight I am happy to see that many people of my community are living here), but when they open their mouth, I literally want to slap them. I mean, most of them don't even have anything in common with Pakistanis (except the looks of course).
Click to expand...

So this angers you, disappoints you and you want to slap them? :facepalm:
 
Abdul said:
What's the big deal?
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It is a big deal when they visit Pakistan and can not communicate with their relatives, especially those relatives who dont speak English.

What is the problem with teaching kids an extra language? If you want to learn languages the best time for that is in childhood.
 
saeedhk said:
But...Pakistanis in HK do not converse in Cantonese.Instead, they stick to their Pothwari, Punjabi and Pashto.

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certainly you never been in touch with kids who are born in HK. be they are Pakistani or Indians.
 
Language is not a problem, you learn language IF that language is spoken at your home OR been taught in school.
Kids who speak fluent Urdu/Punjabi because that's the language their parents use at home and their parents are fluent in English and that's where kids pick up language. But they can't write Urdu because that's not been taught in schools.

one thing I noticed that British Pakistani are most confused among Pakistanis living abroad. and there are many factors, be it religious, be it culture
 
mz123 said:
When I see British Pakistanis who don't even know a single word of Urdu, and just talk english 24 h with their strange accent, it angers me and disappoints me a lot. They look perfectly Pakistani from the outside (that's why at first sight I am happy to see that many people of my community are living here), but when they open their mouth, I literally want to slap them. I mean, most of them don't even have anything in common with Pakistanis (except the looks of course).
Click to expand...

mz123 said:
Moreover, the behavior of many british pakistanis is so strange and not pakistani at all, and most of them don't even know anything about Islam and where they come from. So disappointing !!! This angers me a lot
Click to expand...


Brother it is a personal choice. It is not an Obligation for them to know Urdu language.


I know some Britain born Britishers of Pakistani Origin who are leading a successful worldly life in UK and they fulfil their religious obligations to its core aswell and have a strong connection with Religion. They are lawyers, doctors, engineers, chartered accountants, pharmacists etc who speak fluent Urdu, can write Urdu and can read Urdu.


Credit for this goes to their parents who had the will and time to teach their children.


As far as attitude & behaviour is concerned than that has alot to do with the upbringing of a child.



As far as language is concerned it is totally a personal choice. So you should not be angry at them.
 
Asim2Good said:
certainly you never been in touch with kids who are born in HK. be they are Pakistani or Indians.
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Not really.I'm HK-born.It is very very rare especially amongst Pakistanis.

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saeedhk said:
Not really.I'm HK-born.It is very very rare especially amongst Pakistanis.

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Click to expand...

not the case for last about 20 years or so, alot of kids are hk born now. looks like you are not in touch with Pakistani community here OR not in touch with younger generation.
and they speak fluent cantonese among each other as their first choice language.
 
Asim2Good said:
not the case for last about 20 years or so, alot of kids are hk born now. looks like you are not in touch with Pakistani community here OR not in touch with younger generation.
and they speak fluent cantonese among each other as their first choice language.
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Maybe we are living in different countries.

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I know people living in India who cant speak local languages fluently , whats the big deal really ?
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
My kids are absolutely gorified, but at the same time they are proud as hell Pakistanis and Brits. Mamoon's worst nightmare basically. My relatives are in absolute awe of the tremendous upbringing I have given them and while it's not considered good form to blow your own trumpet, it's a well deserved title.
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The balance between the strengths of our desi culture such as respect for elders in and outside the family and the prevailing culture amongst the working class( basically a euphuism for the poor) of no respect to anyone or anything is being lost. Too many kids of PK culture don't understand that these societies are built on hard work and if you fuse the best of our culture with the best of British, you can't go wrong.
 
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mz123 said:
why isn't it man !!! every pakistani should learn urdu, it should be their mother tongue
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Why? The majority language of Pakistan for its first 20 years was Bengali. You should learn that before you knock British citizens for not knowing Urdu. :)
 
mz123 said:
why isn't it man !!! every pakistani should learn urdu, it should be their mother tongue
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The 'mother tongue' of those British citizens born in and living in Britain, no matter what their ethnic origin, is and should be english not urdu. And that also applies to those whose parents and/or grandparents were born in Pakistan.

UK citizens of Pakistani origin are British because they, or their parents and/or grandparents, decided to emigrate out of Pakistan in order to try and create a better life in the UK for themselves and their children. Had they wanted to remain being Pakistanis then they would have remained in Pakistan instead of emigrating to the UK and becoming UK citizens.
 
Urdu isn't the mother tongue for most Pakistanis apart from Muhajirs and some Urban elites so why would it be the mother tongue of British born people who are of Pakistani origin. When the majority of the British Pakistani migrant population comes from Azad Kashmir and Pothwari area who speak Pothwari as their native language why would they learn Urdu as well. Also while knowing Urdu Pothwari Punjabi is a good attribute to have its isn't necessary while living in the UK knowing English is the most important here.

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Cpt. Rishwat said:
Punjabi has a loud culture because that is their culture. That's no reason it should become a dominant voice unless Bollywood itself is just aiming to the mass market. That's capitalism for you, can't argue against the market.
Click to expand...

Punjabi is my culture as well but growing up in a South Indian culture one can easily appreciate the importance of literature,Punjabi is just folk songs and now alcoholic songs,the only credible literature or art is basically Sikhism and its related paintings,the gurudwaras and Guru Granth Sahib.

They are just lucky they are right now in a time when things like alcohol,dance,clothes,songs are given massive importance over things like literature/scientific knowledge in regional language.
 
JaDed said:
Punjabi is my culture as well but growing up in a South Indian culture one can easily appreciate the importance of literature,Punjabi is just folk songs and now alcoholic songs,the only credible literature or art is basically Sikhism and its related paintings,the gurudwaras and Guru Granth Sahib.

They are just lucky they are right now in a time when things like alcohol,dance,clothes,songs are given massive importance over things like literature/scientific knowledge in regional language.
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Scientific knowledge in regional languages? Lol....who will read those Scientific books in Tamil and Malyalam? No Indian Language can compete with English as the preferred choice for Science, not even Hindi forget any Southie Language.
 
First of all there should be no national language, Pakistan should have adopted Urdu and English as official languages.

Regional languages should be promoted, they are your identity, country maps keep changing. Shahid Afridi jokingly said Irfan Pathan is a fake Pathan because he cannot speak Pashto, what about 100m Pakistani Punjabi's then? Fake pseudo Punjabi's!

In India only 40% population has Hindi as first language, Hindi is first language in 8 States out of total 25 plus States. Hindi belt is poorest in India. India never adopted Hindi as national language that's why English has penetrated much more.

India has the second largest number of English speakers, USA is first. India has more people who speak English as second language or understand English than any other country in the world.

Pakistanis shunned their local languages in past. You reserved Punjabi for uncouth populace. Now when same treatment is metted out to Urdu you are concerned, Urdu is a foreign language to Pakistanis.

In India, regional identity is very strong. Just check the sales of regional newspapers and number of TV channels on air. No surprise lnguages like Tamil, Telugu, Bengali have one of largest speakers in World. India is home to so many languages.
 
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born in uk, still live here, parents both are punjabis, i can speak punjabi very good- but ofcourse not fluidly like a proper punjabi back home, parents can talk urdu, however i cannot talk it at all - i can understand it.... dont make me a bad person in any way
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
Regional languages should be promoted, they are your identity, country maps keep changing. Shahid Afridi jokingly said Irfan Pathan is a fake Pathan because he cannot speak Pashto, what about 100m Pakistani Punjabi's then? Fake pseudo Punjabi's!
Click to expand...

What about 100 million Pakistani punjabis? All most all Punjabis speak Punjabi when talking with each other. Don't open your mouth about something you don't know.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
First of all there should be no national language, Pakistan should have adopted Urdu and English as official languages.

Regional languages should be promoted, they are your identity, country maps keep changing. Shahid Afridi jokingly said Irfan Pathan is a fake Pathan because he cannot speak Pashto, what about 100m Pakistani Punjabi's then? Fake pseudo Punjabi's!

In India only 40% population has Hindi as first language, Hindi is first language in 8 States out of total 25 plus States. Hindi belt is poorest in India. India never adopted Hindi as national language that's why English has penetrated much more.

India has the second largest number of English speakers, USA is first. India has more people who speak English as second language or understand English than any other country in the world.

Pakistanis shunned their local languages in past. You reserved Punjabi for uncouth populace. Now when same treatment is metted out to Urdu you are concerned, Urdu is a foreign language to Pakistanis.

In India, regional identity is very strong. Just check the sales of regional newspapers and number of TV channels on air. No surprise lnguages like Tamil, Telugu, Bengali have one of largest speakers in World. India is home to so many languages.
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Sorry to say but you do not know much about the linguistics of Pakistan. Regional languages are widely spoken in Pakistan, Punjabi is spoken by almost every one in Punjab, Pashto spoken by everyone is Khyber Pukhthunkhwa so on and so forth. Urdu is used as a unifying language so people in Peshawar can easily talk to those in Karachi. It does not mean and Pashtuns have forgotten Pashto.
 
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