What can Western Muslims do to distinguish themselves from perpetrators of Islamist terror attacks?

[Bilal7]

The problem is this:

The attackers are generally western born and bred Muslims. They aren't folks who grew up in the Middle East and had someone killed by western troops and have an axe to grind. These are western Muslims you see in the mosque or in the streets. So yes they are part of these western Muslim communities and hence naturally people will find a connection between them and the communities they come from

And hence there is a need for the western Muslim communities to distinguish themselves from these idiots. If it was some Iraqis or Syrian Arabs from these countries specifically coming to the west to carry out such attacks then it would be a different case. But unfortunately in majority of these cases it is Muslims who are born and bred in the west

You don't find them in mosques and no, these lunatics are not raised like the average Muslim is. The recent Manchester bomber was a clubber, rude and generally not interested in Islam. A guy who went to join up with ISIS read books like "How to pray for beginners" before doing so. The girl from Paris was a party-goer and described as irreligious and this is the common trend.

The problem then, is not their religious upbringing, because there is no religious upbringing. The problem is poverty, unemployment, resentment with their lives, etc. It could be mental illness as well for all we know. In places like England, it is also the inability to fit into the local culture, which does not have anything to do with what you wear but your proficiency in the local language, your adherence to the laws and involvement in the country's affairs.

Why should an average Muslim living in the West change their dressing or look because of these morons? That will not only make it seem like Islam really is the problem to the average, ignorant Westerner but will position Daesh as the only true Muslims because they are the ones following the Sunnah.

Like I said before in this thread, Western Muslims should become more visible and through their good actions and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, that average Westerner will say to himself "They dress funny but they're no terrorists and in fact, are pretty upstanding individuals". Make yourself a better person and a better Muslim and change the perception of other people, don't bow down before Daesh and lose your identity.

Others may not like it but this is exactly why I truly appreciate guys like Amla, Moeen, Rashid, Tahir, Khawaja, etc. They're all devout Muslims, great at what they do and have contributed to improving the image of Muslims in their respective, native/adopted country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The problem is this:

The attackers are generally western born and bred Muslims. They aren't folks who grew up in the Middle East and had someone killed by western troops and have an axe to grind. These are western Muslims you see in the mosque or in the streets. So yes they are part of these western Muslim communities and hence naturally people will find a connection between them and the communities they come from

And hence there is a need for the western Muslim communities to distinguish themselves from these idiots. If it was some Iraqis or Syrian Arabs from these countries specifically coming to the west to carry out such attacks then it would be a different case. But unfortunately in majority of these cases it is Muslims who are born and bred in the west

This doesn't really apply to me because I am not someone who goes to the mosque regularly or wishes to represent Muslims officially. I suppose I could get involved to present a better image but I don't really see any advantage in it. I don't particularly want to be seen as a victim or an apologist, and that seems to be the only avenue open as a Muslim representative. If others want that responsibility they are welcome to it. I like living the same life as most average Brits for the most part. If Johnny Bloggs doesn't have to associate himself with Muslim terrorists I don't see why I should.

 

[Saeed]

I've given this some thought today and I agree with you.

I have absolutely nothing in common with Saudi's, somalians, Syrians, Lebanese, Libyans etc etc etc.

I am British of Pakistany descent and that's it.

I do not associate myself with anyone other then those of my country and my country of origin.

Who do you identify yourself with now? This time around one of the killer is a British of Pakistany descent. Gotta find a new way to disassociate from this nutter.

 

[Big Mac]

Be white, it solves most problems.

 

[Wristy_Shuffler]

You don't find them in mosques and no, these lunatics are not raised like the average Muslim is. The recent Manchester bomber was a clubber, rude and generally not interested in Islam. A guy who went to join up with ISIS read books like "How to pray for beginners" before doing so. The girl from Paris was a party-goer and described as irreligious and this is the common trend.

The problem then, is not their religious upbringing, because there is no religious upbringing. The problem is poverty, unemployment, resentment with their lives, etc. It could be mental illness as well for all we know. In places like England, it is also the inability to fit into the local culture, which does not have anything to do with what you wear but your proficiency in the local language, your adherence to the laws and involvement in the country's affairs.

Why should an average Muslim living in the West change their dressing or look because of these morons? That will not only make it seem like Islam really is the problem to the average, ignorant Westerner but will position Daesh as the only true Muslims because they are the ones following the Sunnah.

Like I said before in this thread, Western Muslims should become more visible and through their good actions and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, that average Westerner will say to himself "They dress funny but they're no terrorists and in fact, are pretty upstanding individuals". Make yourself a better person and a better Muslim and change the perception of other people, don't bow down before Daesh and lose your identity.

Others may not like it but this is exactly why I truly appreciate guys like Amla, Moeen, Rashid, Tahir, Khawaja, etc. They're all devout Muslims, great at what they do and have contributed to improving the image of Muslims in their respective, native/adopted country.

Agree. All these people who think we should remove certain elements of the faith such as the beard or a dress are mistaken. I can understand the argument and the point made but I don't agree with it. For one thing it's disgusting to even think about having to change your way of life to please some strangers and reminds of me of the stories of how the blacks in the US used to get conks in the 50's and 60' as they were ashamed of the natural style of hair they had.

The other thing is, it's a flawed way of thinking, even if you dress a certain way to dissociate yourself with a particular group, how far are you gonna go? Should we change the way we speak? Change our names? Paint ourselves white?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION]


Islam teaches


1. Love for all hatred for None

2. Islam teaches that killing of one person is killing of entire mankind.

3. Each and Every Mosque should be open 24/7 and content being preached should be monitored by the State.

4. Hate Mongerers should be thrown out of UK as Theressa May said today. There should be no place for Extremists in UK. The representatives of those groups which spread hate should not be granted visa of UK. There are many such organisations.

5. Prophet Mohammed Pbuh taught us that Love and Loyalty for your Country is part of your faith.


6. Prophet Mohammed Pbuh came to know about a Mosque which was spreading Hate. What was His reaction ? He ordered closure of that Mosque. Uk should do the same for such mosques no matter whatever Sect that Mosque belongs to.

7. Fight with Terrorists, terrorist sympathisers and extrenists but don't fight with Islam and practicing Muslims of any Sect. Draw firm redlines.


8. Junaids the remedies you proposed few days back defy liberal secular values. You cannot and should not interfere in People's personal life & religious ethical values as a State whereby you require them to go against the moral code there religion teaches them. This is Extremism and it will never ever curb any terrorist whether committed by a Muslim, Christian, Jew etc or by a White Supremist or Islamophobe. I was surprised to read the relationship you were trying to make between intimacy between a man and a women vs Loyalty for a State. This has nothing to do with Loyalty to your Country neither directly nor indirectly.

You cannot and should not ignore the Spirit of these young Men who are fasting themselves while feeding homeless people. Boys who don't eat and drink for 18 hours distributing food ? This is what Islam & Mohammad Pbuh has taught Us.

 

[Markhor]

London attacks: Islamic scholar reported Khuram Butt to police last year

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-401...olar-reported-khuram-butt-to-police-last-year

Dr Usama Hasan describes how he was involved in a confrontation with Khuram Butt, one of the three London attackers at an event last year to mark Eid, the end of Ramadan.

So another case where local community members reported an eventual would-be terrorist.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] @Capt Rishwat [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]


This cannot be ignored. A nation stood up and stands united.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Canadian?src=hash">#Canadian</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ahmadi?src=hash">#Ahmadi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Muslim?src=hash">#Muslim</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/IslamUnderstood?src=hash">#IslamUnderstood</a> campaign in full swing in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/London?src=hash">#London</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UK?src=hash">#UK</a> <br>Denouncing the terror attack & promoting love & education <a href="https://t.co/s0s2UuSUti">pic.twitter.com/s0s2UuSUti</a></p>— Imtiaz Ahmed (@imtiazahmedsraa) <a href="https://twitter.com/imtiazahmedsraa/status/847203692721922050">March 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Yossarian]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] @Capt Rishwat [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]


This cannot be ignored. A nation stood up and stands united.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Canadian?src=hash">#Canadian</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ahmadi?src=hash">#Ahmadi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Muslim?src=hash">#Muslim</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/IslamUnderstood?src=hash">#IslamUnderstood</a> campaign in full swing in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/London?src=hash">#London</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UK?src=hash">#UK</a> <br>Denouncing the terror attack & promoting love & education <a href="https://t.co/s0s2UuSUti">pic.twitter.com/s0s2UuSUti</a></p>— Imtiaz Ahmed (@imtiazahmedsraa) <a href="https://twitter.com/imtiazahmedsraa/status/847203692721922050">March 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What does "denouncing" actually achieve? Does anyone seriously believe marching down the road waving placards is going to deter the terrorists from either side?

The only way to stop the spread of terror is to go after those who brainwash the idiotic foot soldiers who carry it out, those who finance it, and those in the media who put fuel on the fire in the language they use to push their agenda.

Believe it or not, even amongst the Far Right extremists, it is the high and mighty, the pin-stripe brigade and the stiff-upper-lip brigade, who support them, finance them and are the actual brains behind them. Not dissimilar to the powers behind the 'jihadists'.

You'll even find strong links between the media barons, the industrialists who benefit from creating fear and conflict (eg Arms manufacturers, providers of security systems and associated hardware and software used by police forces, airports, public buildings and such like) and those pulling the strings behind many of the extremist organisations.

"Follow the money trail" - see who stands to make the big bucks from all this strife.

(Look how much Dick Chaney and his mates made from the Iraq war via Halliburton and all the other billions spent by the military.

More money was probably spent on feeding and accomodating the U.S. forces whilst they were in Iraq than the money spent on jet fuel burnt, bombs dropped, missiles launched and bullets fired. And someone had to supply it all!)

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

What does "denouncing" actually achieve? Does anyone seriously believe marching down the road waving placards is going to deter the terrorists from either side?

The only way to stop the spread of terror is to go after those who brainwash the idiotic foot soldiers who carry it out, those who finance it, and those in the media who put fuel on the fire in the language they use to push their agenda.

Believe it or not, even amongst the Far Right extremists, it is the high and mighty, the pin-stripe brigade and the stiff-upper-lip brigade, who support them, finance them and are the actual brains behind them. Not dissimilar to the powers behind the 'jihadists'.

You'll even find strong links between the media barons, the industrialists who benefit from creating fear and conflict (eg Arms manufacturers, providers of security systems and associated hardware and software used by police forces, airports, public buildings and such like) and those pulling the strings behind many of the extremist organisations.

"Follow the money trail" - see who stands to make the big bucks from all this strife.

(Look how much Dick Chaney and his mates made from the Iraq war via Halliburton and all the other billions spent by the military.

More money was probably spent on feeding and accomodating the U.S. forces whilst they were in Iraq than the money spent on jet fuel burnt, bombs dropped, missiles launched and bullets fired. And someone had to supply it all!)

My Intension wasn't to say that doing these marches will End terrorism.


I agree with you in totality.


When ISIS was rising that some were purchasing cheap oil, some were selling them arms. So these pipelines could have & should have been siezed but they were not. Why ? Everyone has their own agenda.


But as Muslims we or whatever faith we have does not mean that We are for sale be it be oil, weapons, life or dollars. We should have the restraint to say No and rather die than to sell our faith for these dirty filthy missions (terrorism). Unfortunately It did not go this way.


Uk border management needs improvement and gov needs to record Each and Every Sermon aswell as Speech and keep a check. Mosques & Madrassas/Schools should be monitored. There should be no space for Jehaadi/fasaadi lectures or hate speeches. No compromise.

This way all the fanatics/extremists and anjum choudharies will be nabbed.


Internet Use should be monitored aswell.


Doctrines behind the extremist ideologies need to be Crushed by the State at any cost.


And Yes keep an eye on White Supremists and other Terrorists too. For instance Finsbury attacker, Islamophobes etc.

 

[Yossarian]

My Intension wasn't to say that doing these marches will End terrorism.


I agree with you in totality.


When ISIS was rising that some were purchasing cheap oil, some were selling them arms. So these pipelines could have & should have been siezed but they were not. Why ? Everyone has their own agenda.


But as Muslims we or whatever faith we have does not mean that We are for sale be it be oil, weapons, life or dollars. We should have the restraint to say No and rather die than to sell our faith for these dirty filthy missions (terrorism). Unfortunately It did not go this way.


Uk border management needs improvement and gov needs to record Each and Every Sermon aswell as Speech and keep a check. Mosques & Madrassas/Schools should be monitored. There should be no space for Jehaadi/fasaadi lectures or hate speeches. No compromise.

This way all the fanatics/extremists and anjum choudharies will be nabbed.


Internet Use should be monitored aswell.


Doctrines behind the extremist ideologies need to be Crushed by the State at any cost.


And Yes keep an eye on White Supremists and other Terrorists too. For instance Finsbury attacker, Islamophobes etc.

Religion (as a front / as an excuse) is the cause and not the solution.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION] @Capt Rishwat [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]


This cannot be ignored. A nation stood up and stands united.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Canadian?src=hash">#Canadian</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ahmadi?src=hash">#Ahmadi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Muslim?src=hash">#Muslim</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/IslamUnderstood?src=hash">#IslamUnderstood</a> campaign in full swing in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/London?src=hash">#London</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UK?src=hash">#UK</a> <br>Denouncing the terror attack & promoting love & education <a href="https://t.co/s0s2UuSUti">pic.twitter.com/s0s2UuSUti</a></p>— Imtiaz Ahmed (@imtiazahmedsraa) <a href="https://twitter.com/imtiazahmedsraa/status/847203692721922050">March 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

While I can admire the dedication of those people to actually go out and march with their t-shirts on trying to convince the public that their faith is a religion of peace I have to be honest and say I could never do anything like that myself. But then I don't really identify with organised Islamic movements, I avoid mosques, and don't really have much interest in Islamic activities in general. If I was Christian I'd be the type who never went to Church either.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

While I can admire the dedication of those people to actually go out and march with their t-shirts on trying to convince the public that their faith is a religion of peace I have to be honest and say I could never do anything like that myself. But then I don't really identify with organised Islamic movements, I avoid mosques, and don't really have much interest in Islamic activities in general. If I was Christian I'd be the type who never went to Church either.

Yes Cpt No issues. That is your Life and you have absolute right to live it the way you want.


This Muslim Convert has this to say about marches :


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I will not be participating in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DayOfRage?src=hash">#DayOfRage</a> marches and advise others to avoid them. But a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DayofPeace?src=hash">#DayofPeace</a> gathering, wouldn't that be something!</p>— Adam Walker (@AdamWalkerGB) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamWalkerGB/status/877443077622943744">June 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As for the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DayOfRage?src=hash">#DayOfRage</a> objectives, didn't most of us already participate? It was called the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GeneralElection17?src=hash">#GeneralElection17</a>.</p>— Adam Walker (@AdamWalkerGB) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamWalkerGB/status/877443984578285568">June 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Slog]

Bump. Especially relevant for European Muslims in the last couple of years

 

[BreadPakoda]

To start with, not justify their actions, maybe?

 

[miandadrules]

I don’t think you can have a blanket approach.

Each community have to take the initiative to tackle the specific causes in their area.

But to do that there has to be a willingness to address difficult topics, which seems severely lacking.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Nothing.

When Christian Dylan kill in the name Christianity, Hindutva Rajesh kill in the name Hinduism, Jewis David kill in the name Judaism then only those people are responsible and that’s because the world (media and politicians have decided on the narrative).

When a degenerate Muslim kill in the name of religion then every Muslim of the world is held responsible and has to apologize almost every breathing second and that has to do with because Muslim world lacks leaders with spine.

 

[Pakpak]

Bump. Especially relevant for European Muslims in the last couple of years

I can speak for the ones in UK. For the most acknowledgment is another universe, a lot still look for conspiracies. I can't speak for the millions of British Muslims but the ones I know off. And these aren't your uneducated ones. These are doctors who I have known most of my life and I remember tried to convince me Peshawar attack was done by Americans with wigs. This is the level of nonsense so dealing with issues is impossible if such conspiracies are peddled.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Nothing.

When Christian Dylan kill in the name Christianity, Hindutva Rajesh kill in the name Hinduism, Jewis David kill in the name Judaism then only those people are responsible and that’s because the world (media and politicians have decided on the narrative).

When a degenerate Muslim kill in the name of religion then every Muslim of the world is held responsible and has to apologize almost every breathing second and that has to do with because Muslim world lacks leaders with spine.

The mentioned Dylan, Rajesh and David do not attack and kill in the name of their religion and God in other countries. They do not go to other countries and refugees and start attacking the host country and killing its citizens just because someone spoke ill about their God or holy man.

 

[Star_Coffee]

The mentioned Dylan, Rajesh and David do not attack and kill in the name of their religion and God in other countries. They do not go to other countries and refugees and start attacking the host country and killing its citizens just because someone spoke ill about their God or holy man.

You can pick and chose the reason someone using their respective religion or the vicinity but it is another narrative that is used to justify killing by non-Muslim thugs, terrorists and Army.

 

[miandadrules]

I can speak for the ones in UK. For the most acknowledgment is another universe, a lot still look for conspiracies. I can't speak for the millions of British Muslims but the ones I know off. And these aren't your uneducated ones. These are doctors who I have known most of my life and I remember tried to convince me Peshawar attack was done by Americans with wigs. This is the level of nonsense so dealing with issues is impossible if such conspiracies are peddled.

They tend to live in quite insular communities and are conditioned to react to certain buzz words. Which inevitably leads to such thinking.

There is no free flow of ideas there. In fact it’s stagnant.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

You can pick and chose the reason someone using their respective religion or the vicinity but it is another narrative that is used to justify killing by non-Muslim thugs, terrorists and Army.

Whole world (irrespective of religion) has one point of view and Muslims like you have the opposite view. You decide.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Whole world (irrespective of religion) has one point of view and Muslims like you have the opposite view. You decide.

Politicians do, bigots do, and probably the circle you keep yourself confine in do.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Politicians do, bigots do, and probably the circle you keep yourself confine in do.

Do you believe that Islamic Terror Attacks are being used as a conspiracy to malign Islam and Muslims? Those Terror attacks or murders or beheadings have nothing to do with the Perpetrators beliefs about his religion?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Simplest answer: don't indulge personally or with anyone else in terrorist attacks.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Do you believe that Islamic Terror Attacks are being used as a conspiracy to malign Islam and Muslims? Those Terror attacks or murders or beheadings have nothing to do with the Perpetrators beliefs about his religion?

“Perpetrators beliefs about his religion”

As I mentioned, Dylan, Rajesh, David could kill in the name of their beliefs or elect a government that support acts of terrorism in the name of religion but only they’ll be blame and held responsible or the most, the affiliated organization but never a respective religion or asked to apologize those who practice respective religion.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Simplest answer: don't indulge personally or with anyone else in terrorist attacks.

99.99% don’t

 

[Slog]

Nothing.

When Christian Dylan kill in the name Christianity, Hindutva Rajesh kill in the name Hinduism, Jewis David kill in the name Judaism then only those people are responsible and that’s because the world (media and politicians have decided on the narrative).

When a degenerate Muslim kill in the name of religion then every Muslim of the world is held responsible and has to apologize almost every breathing second and that has to do with because Muslim world lacks leaders with spine.

While your advice to “do nothing” is fair enough and might be the best way forward but you reasoning is poor. You are conflating different scenarios and using false equivalences when you are making your comparisons.

Dylan kills in name of white supremacism not Christianity. He doesn’t refer explicitly to Christianity and say that he is doing it in its name. And his targets are not because of their supposed slights to Christianity.

Rajesh does it in India so will obviously not get as much attention in the international press. When he does samein America or UK then the world will take interest and Hinduism will come under the scanner a lot more.

David whenever he is doing he is doing in Israel and again not in the west. In the Middle East region that David is maligned enough anyway but the westerners won’t see him same way because he isn’t doing it on their lands and inconveniencing them.

The Muslim is doing it in European lands and native Europeans are his victim which is why the average western Muslim also gets scrutiny.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

99.99% don’t

I know, but let's indulge our resident Islamophobes a bit.

 

[Tubs]

Muslims aren't under any obligation to distinguish themselves from terrorists just because they're Muslims.

However, when some Muslims (even on this forum) make excuses/justifications for terror attacks (especially for a cartoon), then there is a cause for concern.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Muslims aren't under any obligation to distinguish themselves from terrorists just because they're Muslims.

However, when some Muslims (even on this forum) make excuses/justifications for terror attacks (especially for a cartoon), then there is a cause for concern.

Can you produce a quote where anyone made a justification for terror attacks? Your febrile imagination where you make your own personal interpretations doesn't really count for much.

 

[Slog]

Can you produce a quote where anyone made a justification for terror attacks? Your febrile imagination where you make your own personal interpretations doesn't really count for much.

Well it’s deleted now but one esteemed poster said that both parties in the Paris terrorist attack were wrong and it’s good both died. For Charlie Hebdo attacks few posters also said they are understandable . Would you consider these as justifications?

Get your head out of the sand and don’t live in denial. Unless you are one of them.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Muslims aren't under any obligation to distinguish themselves from terrorists just because they're Muslims.

However, when some Muslims (even on this forum) make excuses/justifications for terror attacks (especially for a cartoon), then there is a cause for concern.

Many of these people are quick to label any criticism as Islamophobia.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well it’s deleted now but one esteemed poster said that both parties in the Paris terrorist attack were wrong and it’s good both died. For Charlie Hebdo attacks few posters also said they are understandable . Would you consider these as justifications?

Get your head out of the sand and don’t live in denial. Unless you are one of them.

Both parties were wrong. One goaded an entire community, then one of those reacted in a terrible fashion. This is just what happened, you can use words like denial to try to deflect this but it won't change this.

Get your own head out of the sand. Are you one of them?

 

[Bigboii]

Muslims aren't under any obligation to distinguish themselves from terrorists just because they're Muslims.

However, when some Muslims (even on this forum) make excuses/justifications for terror attacks (especially for a cartoon), then there is a cause for concern.

But you guys think when we talk about these cartoons and how they hurt Muslim sentiments
that we are justifying the killings and that's not true

I was absolutely shaken with the attack and remembered all the great teacher who helped me in my journey and it was super emotional so I 150% believe what happened was wrong

But I see a pattern when we start talking about how the "action" is stupid and it hurts our sentiments and maybe at least in Europe it should be banned than people automatically assume that we are justifying the killings and try to take the moral high ground and make the other person sound like he is a ISIL member from Iraq...

That's not fair imo if a discussion is taking place on this issue (recent cartoon killing situation) than we should differentiate between the attackers and people who are just asking for some action on this cartoon situation and not call them "apologists" "justifiers"

 

[Bigboii]

Well it’s deleted now but one esteemed poster said that both parties in the Paris terrorist attack were wrong and it’s good both died. For Charlie Hebdo attacks few posters also said they are understandable . Would you consider these as justifications?

Get your head out of the sand and don’t live in denial. Unless you are one of them.

this is exactly what I am talking about
[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION]

 

[Bigboii]

Both parties were wrong. One goaded an entire community, then one of those reacted in a terrible fashion. This is just what happened, you can use words like denial to try to deflect this but it won't change this.

Get your own head out of the sand. Are you one of them?

just for peoples clarification

when you say both parties were wrong you do not mean the killing was acceptable right?

 

[Slog]

Both parties were wrong. One goaded an entire community, then one of those reacted in a terrible fashion. This is just what happened, you can use words like denial to try to deflect this but it won't change this.

Get your own head out of the sand. Are you one of them?

Both parties were wrong? Only one murdered someone and broke a law mate. Maybe you can found your own country and make ridiculous laws and then both parties in a situation like this would be wrong.

Goading a community with a drawing is now same as murdering someone through beheading for you? Yea you’re part of the problem.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

just for peoples clarification

when you say both parties were wrong you do not mean the killing was acceptable right?

If it was acceptable, why would I say both parties were wrong? It doesn't even make sense.

 

[Tubs]

Can you produce a quote where anyone made a justification for terror attacks? Your febrile imagination where you make your own personal interpretations doesn't really count for much.

People in the other thread were very much saying 'what did you expect' and things to the effect of 'when you keep taunting, this happens'. And you even said both parties are wrong on this thread. The mask is slipping.

 

[Tubs]

But you guys think when we talk about these cartoons and how they hurt Muslim sentiments
that we are justifying the killings and that's not true

I was absolutely shaken with the attack and remembered all the great teacher who helped me in my journey and it was super emotional so I 150% believe what happened was wrong

But I see a pattern when we start talking about how the "action" is stupid and it hurts our sentiments and maybe at least in Europe it should be banned than people automatically assume that we are justifying the killings and try to take the moral high ground and make the other person sound like he is a ISIL member from Iraq...

That's not fair imo if a discussion is taking place on this issue (recent cartoon killing situation) than we should differentiate between the attackers and people who are just asking for some action on this cartoon situation and not call them "apologists" "justifiers"

Thank you for not being one of those apologists.

I know you're not making excuses, and you're one of the few who I know doesn't secretly support this/ think it was in anyway justified.

I understand that you disagree on my stance on the cartoon (I think it's allowed and should continue to do so), but I also understand that you can be fully against the murder but still against cartoons being made of Muhammad. The people I am referring to were saying things like 'what do you expect' and 'when you keep prodding things like this happen', so they weren't just upset about the cartoon.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Both parties were wrong? Only one murdered someone and broke a law mate. Maybe you can found your own country and make ridiculous laws and then both parties in a situation like this would be wrong.

Goading a community with a drawing is now same as murdering someone through beheading for you? Yea you’re part of the problem.

Where did I say this?

The one who broke the law got shot dead, if he hadn't he would have faced consequences for breaking the law. Does that make the teacher who goaded the entire Muslim community any less dead?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

People in the other thread were very much saying 'what did you expect' and things to the effect of 'when you keep taunting, this happens'. And you even said both parties are wrong on this thread. The mask is slipping.

Well what did you expect? Why does anyone need a mask to state the obvious?

 

[miandadrules]

If it was acceptable, why would I say both parties were wrong? It doesn't even make sense.

It makes perfect sense.

 

[Tubs]

Well what did you expect? Why does anyone need a mask to state the obvious?

Do you think the killing was at all justified?

If not, would it be justified in an Islamic state?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Do you think the killing was at all justified?

If not, would it be justified in an Islamic state?

No.

I can't speak for any Islamic state.

 

[Bigboii]

If it was acceptable, why would I say both parties were wrong? It doesn't even make sense.

Ta dah hopefully people got the real life demonstration of the point I was making

(just showing the clear fault in the logic of the people who think when some one on this forum says that both sides are wrong that doesn't mean they're justifying the killings) they are equating this statement of "both parties were wrong" to thinking that we are justifying the killing

Which is not true!!!

When talking about this situation and saying that both parties were in the wrong the wrongs were his actions of him hurting Muslim sentiments

That doesn't mean he deserved to die nor does it mean that their crimes were equal of course the idiot who killed him was way "wrong" (if that's how you can put it I guess) than the guy who was showing the cartoons

but that doesn't mean what the teacher did with the provocative cartoons was right (albeit a way smaller "wrong" than what the attacker did)

 

[sweep_shot]

Just live your life. No need to distinguish. Those who know you should be able to tell you are not the bad one.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Both parties were wrong. One goaded an entire community, then one of those reacted in a terrible fashion. This is just what happened, you can use words like denial to try to deflect this but it won't change this.

Get your own head out of the sand. Are you one of them?

Unless I’m wrong as per the laws in France only one party was wrong. The guy who killed the teacher. Let’s allow the laws to decide who’s wrong and who’s right?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Tomorrow if someone goes and kills someone for “breathing” or saying “hello” because that in some random way offends his religion, would you say both parties were wrong?

 

[BreadPakoda]

It’s so interesting to see that radicalist regardless of their religion think so identically.

Reminds me of the recent case where the folks at Tanishq were said to deserve the backlash.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Unless I’m wrong as per the laws in France only one party was wrong. The guy who killed the teacher. Let’s allow the laws to decide who’s wrong and who’s right?

Yes I agree according to the law. Let them decide.

 

[Slog]

Yes I agree according to the law. Let them decide.

According to the law only the person who killed (beheaded) was wrong. The teacher was not. Whilst you claim that both were wrong.

So according to the law (and common senses your assertion is incorrect. The teacher is not wrong.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

According to the law only the person who killed (beheaded) was wrong. The teacher was not. Whilst you claim that both were wrong.

So according to the law (and common senses your assertion is incorrect. The teacher is not wrong.

Yes according to the law he was right. So why are we even debating this?

 

[Slog]

Yes according to the law he was right. So why are we even debating this?

You said verbatim: “Both parties were wrong.”

You were wrong. Only one party is wrong according to the law.

We are debating this because you cannot seem to grasp this single fact.

 

[Star_Coffee]

While your advice to “do nothing” is fair enough and might be the best way forward but you reasoning is poor. You are conflating different scenarios and using false equivalences when you are making your comparisons.

Dylan kills in name of white supremacism not Christianity. He doesn’t refer explicitly to Christianity and say that he is doing it in its name. And his targets are not because of their supposed slights to Christianity.

Rajesh does it in India so will obviously not get as much attention in the international press. When he does samein America or UK then the world will take interest and Hinduism will come under the scanner a lot more.

David whenever he is doing he is doing in Israel and again not in the west. In the Middle East region that David is maligned enough anyway but the westerners won’t see him same way because he isn’t doing it on their lands and inconveniencing them.

The Muslim is doing it in European lands and native Europeans are his victim which is why the average western Muslim also gets scrutiny.

Nothing meant, doesn’t matter how much majority of Muslims will condemn it, the Muslims collectively will be asked to apologize as it is evident in this thread.

White superamacist believe they are the chosen ones for Christianity.

Western world has as much to do in supporting the radicalized version of Islam as much as Arab dictators, without western help most of the Arab dictators won’t exist and with that radicalized version of Islam.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You said verbatim: “Both parties were wrong.”

You were wrong. Only one party is wrong according to the law.

We are debating this because you cannot seem to grasp this single fact.

Are we debating the law here or my opinion? Are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong "mate"?

 

[Slog]

Are we debating the law here or my opinion? Are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong "mate"?

Yes. As per the law your opinion is wrong.

 

[Bigboii]

So many people coming up with the same theory

White nationalist = Cristian extremist

This is wrong on so many levels lol &#55358;&#56611;

Don't think white supremacists want Christianity to "rule" the world

Last time I checked they wanted a white only country...

Sure they take religious elements but they Cristianity is not their "ideology" so

Religious extremists cannot be compared to white nationalists it just doesn't work

 

[James]

Simplest answer: don't indulge personally or with anyone else in terrorist attacks.

Agree.

Came in to say this too.

Curious how, again, the thread has gotten so large — when really the answer is (or should be) so simple.

 

[Slog]

So many people coming up with the same theory

White nationalist = Cristian extremist

This is wrong on so many levels lol

Don't think white supremacists want Christianity to "rule" the world

Last time I checked they wanted a white only country...

Sure they take religious elements but they Cristianity is not their "ideology" so

Religious extremists cannot be compared to white nationalists it just doesn't work

Yes this is the false equivalencies I see apologists making all the time. I think they know too. But it just doesn’t fit to the narrative otherwise.

 

[Madplayer]

By obeying the law of the land, by being good and respectful towards their neighbours, colleagues and everyone they meet and finally by ignoring the provocations which are deliberately done by some people.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes. As per the law your opinion is wrong.

As per the law (British law anyway) we are allowed to have opinions which don't parrot the law. But of course we still follow the law. It's not that difficult a concept.

 

[Bhaijaan]

More power to this brave woman who dealt with bewaqoof Islamist the way they should be dealt with

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838035560965001572

 

[I think therfore I am]

More power to this brave woman who dealt with bewaqoof Islamist the way they should be dealt with

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838035560965001572

Lol what a tool

 

[Kriketer]

More power to this brave woman who dealt with bewaqoof Islamist the way they should be dealt with

https://twitter.com/x/status/1838035560965001572

It is from a prank TV, perhaps do you digging first before letting off your islamophobic steam here

 

[Kriketer]

Many in western world especially young generation already knows that Muslims have nothing to do with Terrorism despite the islamophobia. Genocide in Palestine has really changed the narrative and perspective about Muslim world in the non-Muslim world. Majority are not easily fooled by the Islamophobic Zionist controlled media outlets anymore and can point out the obvious of invasion, proxy wars, occupation, land theft, funding of rogue states and rogue extremist group within Muslim countries to topple local governments etc. It's good to see young generations all around are able to detect the obvious and question the root cause of Zionist/Israeli/American terrorism in Muslim world. You will now see many young Caucasian in masses protesting for freedom for Palestine and voicing to charge Israel and suppress Zionist influence in the West. It is changing, doesn't help the millions suffering in Palestine but eventually it will, social media has sure played a huge rule in giving better perspective