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What caste/Zaat are you?

TM Riddle

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Ok let's get it straight majority of the subcontinent people have Hindu ancestry no matter how hard they try to convince otherwise bringing their blue eyes or extremely fair skin color in the equation.
So what caste or zaat(in case of our Pakistani brothers) are you? Pathans can mention their clan.
PS: It's a fun thread so no need for long essays on how every human being is equal and branding me racist for believing in caste in 21st century.
Let's get it started.
Rajput from Rajasthan.We are like Malfoys of our region except the money part.
 
My father's side claim that they are of Punjabi Mohyal ancestry...converting to Islam only several generations back.

My mother's side are Memon - again converts a few hundred years back from the Hindu Lohana caste who claim to be Khashtriya (Rajput).
 
Zahid87 said:
My father's side claim that they are of Punjabi Mohyal ancestry...converting to Islam only several generations back.

My mother's side are Memon - again converts a few hundred years back from the Hindu Lohana caste who claim to be Khashtriya (Rajput).
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If I'm not wrong Mohyals fought alongside with imam hussain in the battle of karbala.
 
TM Riddle said:
If I'm not wrong Mohyals fought alongside with imam hussain in the battle of karbala.
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They were Dutts, if I remember correctly. They go by the name of Hussaini Brahmin's these days and even mourn in Muharram to this day!
 
Brahmin from Garhwal, have always been interested in finding out our true ancestory. I hear many Garhwalis were Rajasthani migrants, but then I also see Tibetan/Asian features in my family which could be a result of intermixing.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Brahmin from Garhwal, have always been interested in finding out our true ancestory. I hear many Garhwalis were Rajasthani migrants, but then I also see Tibetan/Asian features in my family which could be a result of intermixing.
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My ex was a kandpal :)
 
I don't belive in zaat paat but i am from a Khattar family it's different and most are settled in North Punjab but still some people think Khattar and Gakhars are same.
 
Coke Studio founder Rohail Hayyat is also from Khattar clan.
 
TM Riddle said:
If I'm not wrong Mohyals fought alongside with imam hussain in the battle of karbala.
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Yes, legend has it that a group of Dutts did fight....but its all myth/legend. In any case, I have no idea whether we are ancestrally Dutts or someother Mohyal group. We probably did not stick to the converntion of marrying Mohyal's only either. So there must be a fair case of intermixing on my father's side.

On Mum's side, Memons have a tendency to stick to their own - I suppose my Mum is probably on the first from her family to marry outside the community.

Zak_Fan said:
Brahmin from Garhwal, have always been interested in finding out our true ancestory. I hear many Garhwalis were Rajasthani migrants, but then I also see Tibetan/Asian features in my family which could be a result of intermixing.
Click to expand...

Lots of Brahmins went to what is now Uttrakhand after the fall of the Marathas. They had moved across India as the Marathas expanded. Thats why you have a lot of Brahmin surnames across Gujarat, Maharasthra, Punjab, etc - e.g. Joshi, Pandey (Pandya in Gujarat), Tripathi/Trivedi....

Historically, areas around Himachal and Uttrakhand where places of refuge for fleeing rulers, and peoples. Lot of Brahmins ended up in Garhwal and Kumaon.
 
Zahid87 said:
Yes, legend has it that a group of Dutts did fight....but its all myth/legend. In any case, I have no idea whether we are ancestrally Dutts or someother Mohyal group. We probably did not stick to the converntion of marrying Mohyal's only either. So there must be a fair case of intermixing on my father's side.

On Mum's side, Memons have a tendency to stick to their own - I suppose my Mum is probably on the first from her family to marry outside the community.



Lots of Brahmins went to what is now Uttrakhand after the fall of the Marathas. They had moved across India as the Marathas expanded. Thats why you have a lot of Brahmin surnames across Gujarat, Maharasthra, Punjab, etc - e.g. Joshi, Pandey (Pandya in Gujarat), Tripathi/Trivedi....

Historically, areas around Himachal and Uttrakhand where places of refuge for fleeing rulers, and peoples. Lot of Brahmins ended up in Garhwal and Kumaon.
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Yep just like how many artists from Delhi trained in the mughal style migrated to Himachal after the fall of the empire and were patronized by local rulers giving rise to famous kangra school of painting characterised by sensuality and intelligence.
 
TM Riddle said:
Are Khattars jatts?
Btw cm of haryana is a khattar too but don't think he is a jat.
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Yes Khattars are known as jatts but history of khattars are full of different stories some think they are khatris some say this clan background is linked with central asia and arabs. Khattars even exist in Afghanistan so it's not just limited to Pakistan and India. Sir Sikandar Hayat is one of the most famous Khattar leader from pre partition era.
 
Zahid87 said:
Lots of Brahmins went to what is now Uttrakhand after the fall of the Marathas. They had moved across India as the Marathas expanded. Thats why you have a lot of Brahmin surnames across Gujarat, Maharasthra, Punjab, etc - e.g. Joshi, Pandey (Pandya in Gujarat), Tripathi/Trivedi....

Historically, areas around Himachal and Uttrakhand where places of refuge for fleeing rulers, and peoples. Lot of Brahmins ended up in Garhwal and Kumaon.
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Yeah, this is pretty much what I hear from elders. Where do you get this info from? Some book or source where I can read more?
 
Zahid87 said:
Yes, legend has it that a group of Dutts did fight....but its all myth/legend.
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Not really. Imam Hussain urged leaders of different clans and kingdoms across the world to support him in his battle vs the tyrant Yazid. Nobody helped him but Rahab Sidh Dutt who sacrificed the life of seven of his sons.
 
I am a multani. There are very few multanis in India and we are often clubbed together with Punjabi khatris.
 
TM Riddle said:
If I'm not wrong Mohyals fought alongside with imam hussain in the battle of karbala.
Click to expand...

Zahid87 said:
Yes, legend has it that a group of Dutts did fight....but its all myth/legend.
Click to expand...

ExpressPacer said:
Not really. Imam Hussain urged leaders of different clans and kingdoms across the world to support him in his battle vs the tyrant Yazid. Nobody helped him but Rahab Sidh Dutt who sacrificed the life of seven of his sons.
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Not a legend, and in fact there is good reason Imam Hussain got support from them. Imam Hussain was married to Shahr Banu, the daughter of Persian emperor Yazdegerd III. Shahr Banu's sister was married to an Indian king, so by virtue of these marriages Imam Hussain had ties with India and some even say that the Indians offered him protection.
 
I am supposedly Rizvi Syed, though there is a chance that it's fabricated since it is hard to believe that there are such a large amount of Syeds in Pakistan. Nevertheless, I do have a family tree as evidence.

If I am not Syed, I am almost certain that my family have Persian ancestry, from Masshad.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Not a legend, and in fact there is good reason Imam Hussain got support from them. Imam Hussain was married to Shahr Banu, the daughter of Persian emperor Yazdegerd III. Shahr Banu's sister was married to an Indian king, so by virtue of these marriages Imam Hussain had ties with India and some even say that the Indians offered him protection.
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That's exactly what I was saying. These Hussaini Brahmins aren't necessarily Muslims but its safe to say they have the same love for Imam Hussain as we do.
 
ExpressPacer said:
These Hussaini Brahmins aren't necessarily Muslims but its safe to say they have the same love for Imam Hussain as we do.
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Yes, that's true. Same can be said for the Christians of Iraq, and the middle east in general.

Two Christians fought alongside Imam Hussain in Karbala. That is one of the reasons Christians in the region come to the shrines during Ashura and Arbaeen, they not only do it out of respect, but in fact view it as something of their own too.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Yes, that's true. Same can be said for the Christians of Iraq, and the middle east in general.

Two Christians fought alongside Imam Hussain in Karbala. That is one of the reasons Christians in the region come to the shrines during Ashura and Arbaeen, they not only do it out of respect, but in fact view it as something of their own too.
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Agreed. And that's the same for Hindu's, Sikhs, Muslims and all other religions and their respective sub-sects living in the Indian Sub-Continent. They all visit Sufi shrines like Lal Shahbaaz Qalandar despite not being from the religion that the Sufi's followed.
 
Ezhava here (Kerala) - Now OBC, practically shudra/Untouchable pre 1930's in my home state .


SO now do I get kicked out of here ? :runaway:

Some history :

We are believed to be descendants of Buddhist/Jain practitioners whose ancestors came from Sri Lanka( Ezhava = person from Eezham , Sri Lanka's historical tamil name) for Toddy tapping/cocnut cultivation somewhere in the 1st millennium. (Toddy = coconut beer, Kerala's desi daaru. ).

We were also involved in Ayurveda and Martial arts (Kalari Payattu), even though the martial artists were mainly the "Thiyyas" of Malabar who claim to have a different origin from us even though both had the same shudra status historically .

We are believed to have been converted (voluntarily/forcefully ? its disputed ) to Hinduism as the Brahmins made their way to Kerala (lower western Ghats) , and were assimilated into the caste system as "Untouchables" for resisting the Brahmins unlike the "Nairs"(again disputed).

Presently we are the most numerically dominant Hindu caste in Kerala (almost 30%-35% of hindus) , and are kerala's most influential Hindu community after the Nairs (Upper caste) . Ezhavas & Thiyyas form almost 60-70 % of the support base of the Communist party and are therefore less "Hindutva" aligned and a significant number are very less religious . The BJP has been trying tooth and nail to bring us to their fold, and are enjoying reasonable success these days as Ezhavas in central & southern kerala are losing faith in the communists.
 
never bothered to find out and id prefer to keep it that way
 
My grandparents from both sides migrated from India, I'm very sure a few centuries back our ancestors would have been Hindu and would have a caste, but I don't know it. Neither my parents know and nor their parents knew it.
 
Also some people go overboard and start taking pride in stuff like this. Rajput dalayr hotay hain... Arain yeh hotay hain... Jatt waisay hotay hain. All BS.

There was this one guy in uni with me from Jehlum who used to take particular pride in his Rajput ancestry and how supposedly he is superior to our castes, was promptly put in his place by folks from Karachi (who generally don't have a caste, nor do they believe in one)
 
Da_Future_Knick said:
Rajput.

Does anyone know the historical background? Because I have no idea lol
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From what I've learned Rajputs are descendants of some warrior tribes from central asia (White huns) . They appear in Indian history in AD 600 and later periods.

They assisted/were recruited by the the Brahmins in taking control over parts of northern and central India, by suppressing the Jains & Buddhists (who were in power at the time) and later once the Brahmins gained control of the regions and established their social system, were integrated into the Indian caste system as Warriors/Kshatriyas caste . Rajput is derived from the Sanskrit "reja-putra" which literally means "son of a ruler" . This is the reason for the martial traditions of the Rajputs.
 
Syed1 said:
My grandparents from both sides migrated from India, I'm very sure a few centuries back our ancestors would have been Hindu and would have a caste, but I don't know it. Neither my parents know and nor their parents knew it.
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I allways thought you were Syed, I mean Shaney loug?
 
SandyB said:
From what I've learned Rajputs are descendants of some warrior tribes from central asia (White huns) . They appear in Indian history in AD 600 and later periods.

They assisted/were recruited by the the Brahmins in taking control over parts of northern and central India, by suppressing the Jains & Buddhists (who were in power at the time) and later once the Brahmins gained control of the regions and established their social system, were integrated into the Indian caste system as Warriors/Kshatriyas caste . Rajput is derived from the Sanskrit "reja-putra" which literally means "son of a ruler" . This is the reason for the martial traditions of the Rajputs.
Click to expand...


Its not that simple. What you are referring to may be to one particular group of Rajputs.

You have to take Rajput as synonymous with Kshatriya. There may have been a group of white huns that were absorbed into the caste fold in 600 AD, but you cannot paint all Kshatriyas/Rajputs with the same brush.

The idea of Kshatriyas/Rajputs has been in the SC for thousands of years. They are literally the ruling class.
 
I am Jatt Chaudary but have never used Chaudary with my name.

It is fine to have these to understand what clan/ Tribe people belong to but it is stupid to go around and pretend you are better than other people because of this.
 
SandyB said:
Ezhava here (Kerala) - Now OBC, practically shudra/Untouchable pre 1930's in my home state .


SO now do I get kicked out of here ? :runaway:

Some history :

We are believed to be descendants of Buddhist/Jain practitioners whose ancestors came from Sri Lanka( Ezhava = person from Eezham , Sri Lanka's historical tamil name) for Toddy tapping/cocnut cultivation somewhere in the 1st millennium. (Toddy = coconut beer, Kerala's desi daaru. ).

We were also involved in Ayurveda and Martial arts (Kalari Payattu), even though the martial artists were mainly the "Thiyyas" of Malabar who claim to have a different origin from us even though both had the same shudra status historically .

We are believed to have been converted (voluntarily/forcefully ? its disputed ) to Hinduism as the Brahmins made their way to Kerala (lower western Ghats) , and were assimilated into the caste system as "Untouchables" for resisting the Brahmins unlike the "Nairs"(again disputed).

Presently we are the most numerically dominant Hindu caste in Kerala (almost 30%-35% of hindus) , and are kerala's most influential Hindu community after the Nairs (Upper caste) . Ezhavas & Thiyyas form almost 60-70 % of the support base of the Communist party and are therefore less "Hindutva" aligned and a significant number are very less religious . The BJP has been trying tooth and nail to bring us to their fold, and are enjoying reasonable success these days as Ezhavas in central & southern kerala are losing faith in the communists.
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No offense intended but are you guys (Untouchables) happy? Because from my limited knowledge, what I have heard and know is that shudra are treated worse than animals. Even Vinod Kambli, despite being a terrific batsman was deprived of a spot because of this.
 
Zahid87 said:
Its not that simple. What you are referring to may be to one particular group of Rajputs.

You have to take Rajput as synonymous with Kshatriya. There may have been a group of white huns that were absorbed into the caste fold in 600 AD, but you cannot paint all Kshatriyas/Rajputs with the same brush.

The idea of Kshatriyas/Rajputs has been in the SC for thousands of years. They are literally the ruling class.
Click to expand...

The caste system attained its present rigid form somewhere around AD 400-600. Before that people could move between caste's according to professions.

Also I referred to the warrior Rajput clans.

Again Kshtriya != Rajput ! whereas the reverse is mostly true.

The various warrior castes / Kshatriya groups of South India were never called Rajputs . So its mostly a West/North Indian usage.
 
Syed1 said:
Also some people go overboard and start taking pride in stuff like this. Rajput dalayr hotay hain... Arain yeh hotay hain... Jatt waisay hotay hain. All BS.

There was this one guy in uni with me from Jehlum who used to take particular pride in his Rajput ancestry and how supposedly he is superior to our castes, was promptly put in his place by folks from Karachi (who generally don't have a caste, nor do they believe in one)
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But believe in religion,region and nationality?
 
Hate castes but the thing is people openly define their religion ,nationality as well,one wonders if this will later come into issues as well, so yeah thread sucks and world is unfair.
 
SandyB said:
The caste system attained its present rigid form somewhere around AD 400-600. Before that people could move between caste's according to professions.

Also I referred to the warrior Rajput clans.

Again Kshtriya != Rajput ! whereas the reverse is mostly true.

The various warrior castes / Kshatriya groups of South India were never called Rajputs . So its mostly a West/North Indian usage.
Click to expand...

Rajput is just North Indian vernacular. You can have the same caste group - Bhatti called Rajputs in Rajasthan and Punjab, but Kshatriya in Sindh and Gujarat.

Like I said, there may have been a particular group which you are referring to which came as white huns, etc. But you cannot attach the Rajput label exclusively to them.
 
Syed1 said:
You betcha!
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Similar crap,imagine Desis living in Canada and go on about their nationality after 3-4 generations,that's how caste sounds now atleast for people settled abroad.

I can see how caste becomes acceptable to people,its along similar lines are nationalism and slightly different to religion because of conversion but the top level of religion is always occupied so yeah again,same bin everything.
 
ExpressPacer said:
No offense intended but are you guys (Untouchables) happy? Because from my limited knowledge, what I have heard and know is that shudra are treated worse than animals. Even Vinod Kambli, despite being a terrific batsman was deprived of a spot because of this.
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Its a very complicated answer. You need to consider the unique nature of Kerala's system which is different from the "4 varna" system practised in most parts of India. Here all lower castes were untouchables .

I'll explain that in a detailed post after some time.

But to give a simple Idea , Kerala has only 52% Hindus and 26% Christians. Least hindu dominated Big state of India . That should give an Idea !

We had no muslim invasion except for Tipu and his converts, are only a small part of kerala muslims. Neither was there no Christian conversion by sword like the Portugese did in Goa , except in a few coastal pockets.

But one thing is that in the remaining 52% of which the Shudras and Dalits are 70-80% are pretty much better off than ANY OTHER STATE OF INDIA. ! There are specific historical & political reasons for that too .

So you can't take a Kerala lower caste persons experience with social progress as an example for the untouchables in the whole of India.
 
ExpressPacer said:
No offense intended but are you guys (Untouchables) happy? Because from my limited knowledge, what I have heard and know is that shudra are treated worse than animals. Even Vinod Kambli, despite being a terrific batsman was deprived of a spot because of this.
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Kambli's weakness against short ball was exploited well by West Indian fast bowlers and that's how he lost his place in the Indian team. And he had issues with discipline too.

Manjrekar also lost his place in the side along with him despite being technically very strong because their replacements Ganguly and Dravid were doing more than good.

Somehow never seen Pakistani fans show their concerns for manjrekar, apparently discrimination against higher caste player doesn't make for a good story telling.
 
ExpressPacer said:
No offense intended but are you guys (Untouchables) happy? Because from my limited knowledge, what I have heard and know is that shudra are treated worse than animals. Even Vinod Kambli, despite being a terrific batsman was deprived of a spot because of this.
Click to expand...

Shudras are not untouchables. They are mostly Gold smiths, Sipahis, Landlords... are all clubbed as Shudras.

Dalits are untouchables. The original inhabitants of India along with hundreds of tribal clans that still exist in India today.

Kambli got brutally exposed by Kenneth Benjamin, Ambrose and Walsh. He had issues with Azharuddin the captain at that time. When Dravid sihow d up in 1997, it meant curtains for Kambli.

Kambli did not play long enough for his average to slide into 30's.
 
SandyB said:
From what I've learned Rajputs are descendants of some warrior tribes from central asia (White huns) . They appear in Indian history in AD 600 and later periods.

They assisted/were recruited by the the Brahmins in taking control over parts of northern and central India, by suppressing the Jains & Buddhists (who were in power at the time) and later once the Brahmins gained control of the regions and established their social system, were integrated into the Indian caste system as Warriors/Kshatriyas caste . Rajput is derived from the Sanskrit "reja-putra" which literally means "son of a ruler" . This is the reason for the martial traditions of the Rajputs.
Click to expand...
That's just plain BS propagated by British to suit their needs just like how they divided castes among Martial and non martial.As Zahid said while there might have been a few Rajput clans who traced their origins from central asia most of us are the original kshatriya of bharatvarsha.Basically after the fall of Gupta empire a political vacuum got created in the north and as a result several of their vassals declared themselves free and established their own kingdoms.They were the first rajputs.As the time went by, these clans although having no common ancestry formed a common identity of theirs which involved inter marrying only amongst themselves, certain dietary habits such as eating meat despite being an upper caste, an over emphasis on Valour and Kshatriya dharma etc.Calling all Rajputs descendants of white huns is like calling all British Anglo Saxons.
 
troodon said:
Shudras are not untouchables. They are mostly Gold smiths, Sipahis, Landlords... are all clubbed as Shudras.

Dalits are untouchables. The original inhabitants of India along with hundreds of tribal clans that still exist in India today.

Kambli got brutally exposed by Kenneth Benjamin, Ambrose and Walsh. He had issues with Azharuddin the captain at that time. When Dravid sihow d up in 1997, it meant curtains for Kambli.

Kambli did not play long enough for his average to slide into 30's.
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SHUDRAs were untouchables in Kerala . It was a far more oppressive system shaped by the Namboothiri brahmins of kerala. There were distances specified that each lower caste was meant to keep from the Brahmins and Upper caste Nairs. This varied for the Shudras and dalits .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Kerala



The rules of untouchability were severe to begin with, and they were very strictly enforced by the time of the arrival of the Dutch East India Company in the seventeenth century.[3] Robin Jeffrey, who is a professor specialising in the modern history and politics of India, quotes the wife of a Christian missionary, who wrote in 1860 that:

... a Nair can approach but not touch a Namboodiri Brahmin: a Chovan [Ezhava] must remain thirty-six paces off, and a Pulayan slave ninety-six steps distant. A Chovan must remain twelve steps away from a Nair, and a Pulayan sixty-six steps off, and a Parayan some distance farther still. Pulayans and Parayars, who are the lowest of all, can approach but not touch, much less may they eat with each other.[5]
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Here the Ezhavas were the shudras & the other castes mentioned were dalits. Again even the Sudras tried to keep the Dalits 100 feet away to compensate for the 75 feet he had to stay away from an upper caste. !

It was a truly horrifying period. This is what Vivekanda , whos visited Kerala multiple times said :

Exact text of Vivekanada’s statement (Text obtained from Colombo to Almora – Vivekanada’s notes 1904) Note that Vivekanada mentions Malabar, though I believe he meant Travancore & Cochin as Dr Palpu referred Vivekanada to those Kingdoms during his discussions.

In 1897, Vivekanada remarked in a public address – Was there ever a sillier thing before in the world than what I saw in Malabar? The poor ‘Paraiah’ is not allowed to pass through the same street as the high caste man, but if he changes his name to hodge-podge English name or to a Mohamedan name, it is alright. What inference would you draw except that these Malabaris are all lunatics, their homes so many lunatic asylums and they are to be treated with derision by every race in India until they mend their manners and know better. Shame upon them that such wicked and diabolical customs are allowed.
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TM Riddle said:
That's just plain BS propagated by British to suit their needs just like how they divided castes among Martial and non martial.As Zahid said while there might have been a few Rajput clans who traced their origins from central asia most of us are the original kshatriya of bharatvarsha.Basically after the fall of Gupta empire a political vacuum got created in the north and as a result several of their vassals declared themselves free and established their own kingdoms.They were the first rajputs.As the time went by, these clans although having no common ancestry formed a common identity of theirs which involved inter marrying only amongst themselves, certain dietary habits such as eating meat despite being an upper caste, an over emphasis on Valour and Kshatriya dharma etc.Calling all Rajputs descendants of white huns is like calling all British Anglo Saxons.
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I've gone through many theories on their origin, the one I mentioned was the most repeated one.

I assumed it was the widely accepted narrative.
 
I am jatt kherra...... every time I tell this to someone in pakistan, they start laughing...:danish
 
SandyB said:
Hmm. Proper "Ummachi" eh ! :shocked .. How good are your "Palahaaram" skills ?:23:
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Not an expert like my mom...But yeah i have tried making majority of it during ramzan..latest being chatti pathiri..:)
 
kaayal said:
Not an expert like my mom...But yeah i have tried making majority of it during ramzan..latest being chatti pathiri..:)
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The richness & variety of Malabari mappila snacks are outrageous !:81: Is all that being passed down generations properly ? Or is the arabisation affecting the food too ?
 
SandyB said:
The richness & variety of Malabari mappila snacks are outrageous !:81: Is all that being passed down generations properly ? Or is the arabisation affecting the food too ?
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Ofcourse it's passed on to next generation if they have time and a little bit of interest in cooking.:)

Malabari snacks anyday over the arabian ones for me. Shawarma, shawaya, alf aham, mandi etc are all good for a change only.
 
Tribe is Mughal. Ancestors where from Basrah, Iraq. Have resided in Boha, Azad Kashmir from 1870 till the construction of the Mangla dam.
 
SpiritOf1903 said:
What castes are there ?. The lower ones claim not to know what they are.
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I don't know why they would need to hide it in today's world. Caste might mean something in Indian subcontinent, it's meaningless in the modern world beyond. Probably equivalent to someone called Smith in America in the 1900's who would be associated with shoeing horses. Today a Smith might be the next President of the USA. Is he going to be considered inferior to a Rajput in Dehli?
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I don't know why they would need to hide it in today's world. Caste might mean something in Indian subcontinent, it's meaningless in the modern world beyond. Probably equivalent to someone called Smith in America in the 1900's who would be associated with shoeing horses. Today a Smith might be the next President of the USA. Is he going to be considered inferior to a Rajput in Dehli?
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Sadly, caste is a major topic when it comes to marriage from my neck of the woods.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I don't know why they would need to hide it in today's world. Caste might mean something in Indian subcontinent, it's meaningless in the modern world beyond. Probably equivalent to someone called Smith in America in the 1900's who would be associated with shoeing horses. Today a Smith might be the next President of the USA. Is he going to be considered inferior to a Rajput in Dehli?
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Cap I always had a jatt vibe from you.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I don't know why they would need to hide it in today's world. Caste might mean something in Indian subcontinent, it's meaningless in the modern world beyond. Probably equivalent to someone called Smith in America in the 1900's who would be associated with shoeing horses. Today a Smith might be the next President of the USA. Is he going to be considered inferior to a Rajput in Dehli?
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In India it is still a nasty plague mate. All these city boys think rest of India is what the city is like and has no idea how sensitive it is. In Tamil Nadu two large parties are based on Anti-Brahmins ideologies. BJp or Congress has yet to come anywhere close to beating them in any of the election. Brahmins aren't the worst people anymore, they automatically gets tagged as "castists?" even if they are not and discriminated. "Higher-middle castes", "middle castes" and even "lower castes" discriminate other castes that are "lower" than them.
 
^ Caste is not going to go away anytime soon in India. Even in big cities where people do not care about caste will inquire about it during marriages.

Dalits are the most oppressed in rural areas where as in urban areas, they enjoy a lot of Govt benefits in Education/Jobs etc

I agree that in South India, Dalits are mostly oppressed by Backward Castes and Other Backward Castes. They treat Dalits like dirt while they themselves enjoy the freebies from govt based on being oppressed by Brahmins for thousands of years.

Even among Dalits, they fight based on Sub Divisions. Its a messed up situation. Dalits have numerical numbers in almost all states. They along with tribals are close to 50 crores in India. But have no unity.
 
Caste is an excellent framework within which a society can work with full efficiency, if only it is not hereditary. People who demonstrate suitable qualities should be able to change castes. I found that my caste demanded bravery and chivalry, but I am a coward in real life, so was always a misfit. I like studies and gathering knowledge, so have changed my caste accordingly.
 
Syed1 said:
Also some people go overboard and start taking pride in stuff like this. Rajput dalayr hotay hain... Arain yeh hotay hain... Jatt waisay hotay hain. All BS.

There was this one guy in uni with me from Jehlum who used to take particular pride in his Rajput ancestry and how supposedly he is superior to our castes, was promptly put in his place by folks from Karachi (who generally don't have a caste, nor do they believe in one)
Click to expand...

Being from Karachi has become a caste of it's own :P

If you can survive the mean streets of Karachi, then no jatt/rajput whatever has anything on you.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Caste is an excellent framework within which a society can work with full efficiency, if only it is not hereditary. People who demonstrate suitable qualities should be able to change castes. I found that my caste demanded bravery and chivalry, but I am a coward in real life, so was always a misfit. I like studies and gathering knowledge, so have changed my caste accordingly.
Click to expand...

Wasn't that the exact problem with the caste system, after all ...

That people occupying castes of power started handing that power to their progeny irrespective of their aptitude for it and made it impossible for outer castes to break into theirs even if they had the skills for it .
 
SandyB said:
Wasn't that the exact problem with the caste system, after all ...

That people occupying castes of power started handing that power to their progeny irrespective of their aptitude for it and made it impossible for outer castes to break into theirs even if they had the skills for it .
Click to expand...

Yes, that is what I said. Caste system minus heredity is the best framework for the society.
 
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