What do the people of Pakistan think of overseas Pakistanis?

[gkb101277867]

I was reading through another thread dicussing if overseas pakistanis would be willing to return to Pakistan and it inspired me to make this thread. Apologies if this thread is inappropriate or too similar and plz delete if this is the case.

I want to know how people in Pakistan view overseas pakistanis. I am a UK born pakistani and I have to admit I've had a few weird experiences in Pakistan.Terms such as BBCD almost make you feel like you are being looked down upon. Also there have been a few incidents in Pakistan where people have asked where I come from. This has resulted in jibes such as ' haha you think you're British but you're not' and things like 'wait till they throw you out'. Some people almost seem bitter with their attitudes to overseas pakistanis.

Have any other overseas Pakistanis had similar experiences? And Pakistanis what do you think of the Pakistanis living abroad?

 

[Moiza]

I have never though much about my cousins living in the UK, US and Canada. I just think of them as other cousin but I have seen a sense of superiority in all of them. It's typical of Pakistanis to think of themselves as better than ones in Pakistan, it may be different for you but I have experienced this on 8-10 occasions. I want to announce to all Pakistanis abroad that we have good internet over here and we are not as oblivious to world updates as you may think.

 

[Syed1]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

 

[gkb101277867]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

Bro that may be the case but I personally don't do this and I condemn anyone who does. But I do think it works both ways tbh as I have experienced it first hand as have many others I am sure

 

[Syed1]

Bro that may be the case but I personally don't do this and I condemn anyone who does. But I do think it works both ways tbh as I have experienced it first hand as have many others I am sure

When I first moved from Pakistan to Canada, the local white kids were very open and easy to get along with, while the Pakistani Canadians used to bully and say names like "fresh off the boat". Unfortunately for them a fobby kid was better than them in sports and school and hence had alot more friends while they were secluded to their brown kid bubble.

 

[gkb101277867]

When I first moved from Pakistan to Canada, the local white kids were very open and easy to get along with, while the Pakistani Canadians used to bully and say names like "fresh off the boat". Unfortunately for them a fobby kid was better than them in sports and school and hence had alot more friends while they were secluded to their brown kid bubble.

I am not disputing that mate. I agree eh you. But what I'm asking you is that do you not agree that it works both ways?

 

[Syed1]

I am not disputing that mate. I agree eh you. But what I'm asking you is that do you not agree that it works both ways?

I don't know because personally I haven't been in such a situation to witness it, but you might be right.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

Yeah it's true for most of them and I despise such people

 

[Truth Prevails]

It only depends upon only Tarbeeat & Ikhlaaq of the Person no matter what his nationality is and wherever he lives.

 

[gkb101277867]

Yeah it's true for most of them and I despise such people

Technically if you are not born in pakistan and grow up in that country you are not a pakistani. You do have pakistani roots though

 

[Yossarian]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

If they were not born in Pakistan and have never lived in Pakistan (other than short visits), then they are not 'Pakistanis'. Sure, whilst most will have dual nationality and will have Pakistani NICOP ID cards, and some will even hold Pakistani passports in addition to the passports of the country they were born in, none will hold Pakistani passports only by having given up the citizenship of the country they were born in and are currently living in (assuming they are/were entitled to that country's citizenship in the first place)

So taken all of the above together, they are not 'Pakistanis' and never were!

 

[Syed1]

If they were not born in Pakistan and have never lived in Pakistan (other than short visits), then they are not 'Pakistanis'. Sure, whilst most will have dual nationality and will have Pakistani NICOP ID cards, and some will even hold Pakistani passports in addition to the passports of the country they were born in, none will hold Pakistani passports only by having given up the citizenship of the country they were born in and are currently living in (assuming they are/were entitled to that country's citizenship in the first place)

So taken all of the above together, they are not 'Pakistanis' and never were!

Anybody who has a Pakistani NIC, NICOP or passport is a Pakistani whether they chose to believe it or not, and when a white person asks them what is their background they won't say Britain but Pakistan. Also no matter how long a person lives in the west the color of the skin remains brown and physical features remain desi.

If somebody is delusional then that is a different issue.

 

[gkb101277867]

Anybody who has a Pakistani NIC, NICOP or passport is a Pakistani whether they chose to believe it or not, and when a white person asks them what is their background they won't say Britain but Pakistan. Also no matter how long a person lives in the west the color of the skin remains brown and physical features remain desi.

If somebody is delusional then that is a different issue.

So Obama is not American but Kenyan? I believe his parents and even his brother are Kenyan so Obama must be Kenyan too right? Yet he became the president of the United States.

So all the black Americans are African and not American?

So all the White Americans are not American but British? Since the white people in America came from Britain and ethnically cleansed the native Americans?

When you start thinking that way the world becomes a very complicated place. British born people with Pakistani parents or grandparents will always be British FACT. Not pakistani. And there is nothing wrong with that as many are very proud of their pakistani roots

 

[Syed1]

So Obama is not American but Kenyan? I believe his parents and even his brother are Kenyan so Obama must be Kenyan too right? Yet he became the president of the United States.

So all the black Americans are African and not American?

So all the White Americans are not American but British? Since the white people in America came from Britain and ethnically cleansed the native Americans?

When you start thinking that way the world becomes a very complicated place. British born people with Pakistani parents or grandparents will always be British FACT. Not pakistani. And there is nothing wrong with that as many are very proud of their pakistani roots

You ignored the part where I said a person possessing a Pakistani NIC, NICOP or Passport.

If possessing a passport of a country does not make you a citizen of that country then I don't know what will

 

[gkb101277867]

You ignored the part where I said a person possessing a Pakistani NIC, NICOP or Passport.

If possessing a passport of a country does not make you a citizen of that country then I don't know what will

My apologies I did miss that part. But my point stands for those people who do not have the identity cards.

A lot of people in Pakistan can't handle when such people refer to themselves as British and then the insults start such as BBCD etc. There is nothing wrong with being British and still being proud of your Pakistani roots.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I was reading through another thread dicussing if overseas pakistanis would be willing to return to Pakistan and it inspired me to make this thread. Apologies if this thread is inappropriate or too similar and plz delete if this is the case.

I want to know how people in Pakistan view overseas pakistanis. I am a UK born pakistani and I have to admit I've had a few weird experiences in Pakistan.Terms such as BBCD almost make you feel like you are being looked down upon. Also there have been a few incidents in Pakistan where people have asked where I come from. This has resulted in jibes such as ' haha you think you're British but you're not' and things like 'wait till they throw you out'. Some people almost seem bitter with their attitudes to overseas pakistanis.

Have any other overseas Pakistanis had similar experiences? And Pakistanis what do you think of the Pakistanis living abroad?

What does BBCD mean?

I've personally not had any bad experiences while visiting Pakistan. In fact most people I have met treat you with respect and as they would to any person.

There was one strange experience when I was shopping in Rawalpindi, some random bloke came up and shook my hand telling me I'm from the UK. I asked how did he realise and he mentioned my trainers. I said thank you for the welcome , shook his hands and walked on.

 

[gkb101277867]

What does BBCD mean?

I've personally not had any bad experiences while visiting Pakistan. In fact most people I have met treat you with respect and as they would to any person.

There was one strange experience when I was shopping in Rawalpindi, some random bloke came up and shook my hand telling me I'm from the UK. I asked how did he realise and he mentioned my trainers. I said thank you for the welcome , shook his hands and walked on.

Yeah many people are very nice and respectful. But some are strange like I mentioned.

I believe BBCD means "British Born Confused Desi".

 

[Yossarian]

Anybody who has a Pakistani NIC, NICOP or passport is a Pakistani whether they chose to believe it or not, and when a white person asks them what is their background they won't say Britain but Pakistan. Also no matter how long a person lives in the west the color of the skin remains brown and physical features remain desi.

If somebody is delusional then that is a different issue.

The main reason those born outside Pakistan obtain NICOP ID cards is to make it easier to travel to Pakistan without needing to obtain a visa which is quite expensive in itself..

However, if you travel to Pakistan using your Pakistani passport instead of, say, your British Passport, then if you get into trouble with the police or other Pakistani authorities, the level of help you can get from the British High Commission in Pakistan is very limited.

British nationals with another nationality (known
as ‘dual nationals’ – see page 5), although this will
depend on the circumstances - normally we cannot
help dual nationals when they are in the country of
their other nationality

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/584047/FCO_Brits_Abroad_web130117.pdf

 

[sjahmed23]

It depends on how comfortable the person is in Pakistan. I have some cousins who are doing really well in their careers and enjoying life in Pakistan and I have some other family members who are insecure and just want to bring other people down. Most people were surprised when I went back to Pakistan on how down to earth I was and they were expecting some snotty brat. But that wasn't me, growing up in New York didn't make me run away from my culture, infact I embraced it and appreciated it even more as I got older.

 

[Thivagar]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

Happens everywhere.

 

[Belawal2014]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

I certainly do not, but I agree with the general statement as I have seen it far too many times here.

 

[aloo paratha]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

Yep, a lot of people are definitely like this.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

PREACH bro. Don't seem to understand why when we (the ones living IN Pakistan) seem to think we have it better.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Honestly speaking, I'm sorry but we're not very fond of overseas Pakistani's. Multiple reasons for that. The major one being most overseas Pakistani's seriously look down upon the people living in Pakistan and think we live in some 3rd world slum. Another important thing is, the most overseas Pakistani's I have come across in Pakistan across different fields is that they think of themselves to be superior to all people in Pakistan. How they have this benchmark over everyone here and how they're distinction of holding the British, American or whatever passport sets them apart.

However, I don't want to stereotype anyone. Surely some people may not be like this but I'm just speaking of my experiences. The best overseas Pakistani's I have met and known are Canadians. British Pakistani's have formed this rigid, pessimistic opinion of Pakistan and are a new race in its own but Canadians and Americans mostly, are completely oblivious of whatever is going on in Pakistan because of a much smaller Pakistani community in America. Canadians, however, are very much cooler. They see Pakistan the way it is and are not shocked when they see tall buildings, clean roads and technology in Pakistan.

 

[Yossarian]

Honestly speaking, I'm sorry but we're not very fond of overseas Pakistani's. Multiple reasons for that. The major one being most overseas Pakistani's seriously look down upon the people living in Pakistan and think we live in some 3rd world slum. Another important thing is, the most overseas Pakistani's I have come across in Pakistan across different fields is that they think of themselves to be superior to all people in Pakistan. How they have this benchmark over everyone here and how they're distinction of holding the British, American or whatever passport sets them apart..

It's probably more to do with the fact that having American, Britsh etc. passports gives them extra 'privilages' compared to Pakistanis, such as visa-free (or much easier) travel to most countries, better treatment by the authorities in those countries, better support and services provided by the Embassies of these countries when abroad.

A simple example is the ease with which a U.S. or British national can obtain a visa to vist Pakistan versus the other way around.

When living/working in the Middle East, despite being Pakistani in appearance, I was treated very differently in many different places, such as checking into hotels, visiting goverment offices etc. when it became it was discovered that I was a British national as opposed to other Pakistani nationals.

The companies I worked on projects for all had grading systems in terms of salary and benefits, based upon nationality, with local citizens and Western passport holders at the top, followed by nationals of other Arab Gulf countries, followed by .... for doing the same job.

One last point.

The US passport holders see themselves as being the most superior of all, even superior to Canadians and Brits. This even applies, actually more so, to those newly arrived in the USA and only recently having obtained US citizenship. You can even see this on this PakPassion forum (in the way many of them make derogatory comments about communities of British citizens of Pakistani origin).
And this is likely to become even more so due to Trump's Presidency.

 

[Bewal Express]

The locals saw us as cash cows, and a chance to get their kids across to the UK through marriage. My niece was with me and she was only 12, and every conversation seemed to be steered towards her age(she looked 16) and Rishta.

 

[Black Zero]

It's probably more to do with the fact that having American, Britsh etc. passports gives them extra 'privilages' compared to Pakistanis, such as visa-free (or much easier) travel to most countries, better treatment by the authorities in those countries, better support and services provided by the Embassies of these countries when abroad.

A simple example is the ease with which a U.S. or British national can obtain a visa to vist Pakistan versus the other way around.

When living/working in the Middle East, despite being Pakistani in appearance, I was treated very differently in many different places, such as checking into hotels, visiting goverment offices etc. when it became it was discovered that I was a British national as opposed to other Pakistani nationals.

The companies I worked on projects for all had grading systems in terms of salary and benefits, based upon nationality, with local citizens and Western passport holders at the top, followed by nationals of other Arab Gulf countries, followed by .... for doing the same job.

One last point.

The US passport holders see themselves as being the most superior of all, even superior to Canadians and Brits. This even applies, actually more so, to those newly arrived in the USA and only recently having obtained US citizenship. You can even see this on this PakPassion forum (in the way many of them make derogatory comments about communities of British citizens of Pakistani origin).
And this is likely to become even more so due to Trump's Presidency.

Canadian passport allows visa free entry or visa at arrival to 172 countries, for usa citizens, this number is 160 and for British passport it's 175.

 

[Dios]

There is a sense of elitism among the Pakistanis who are from the upper rungs of Pakistani society towards the Pakistanis born and brought up abroad. I work with and in university have met many Pakistanis who had their schooling done in the elite schools of Karachi and Islamabad and then later on they have come to the UK to complete their higher education and they tend to maintain a distance from the British Pakistanis.

Often I get along more with these guys than the British Pakistanis.

 

[JaDed]

Good to see a genuine discussion on the thread without turning ugly,I usually disliked the Brit Indians,but my first cousin has turned up nicely because of her upbringing and is genuinely nicer and hard working than most Indians I know,so I guess my hatred bubble burst recently.

Surely there can be a generalization but I think its time we start judging people individually,lot of white urban people have been doing that probably because they are exposed to more immigration than an average desi but don't see anything wrong in including that behavior in our desi selves as we seemed to be getting more "closed" community of sorts.

 

[Yossarian]

There is a sense of elitism among the Pakistanis who are from the upper rungs of Pakistani society towards the Pakistanis born and brought up abroad. I work with and in university have met many Pakistanis who had their schooling done in the elite schools of Karachi and Islamabad and then later on they have come to the UK to complete their higher education and they tend to maintain a distance from the British Pakistanis.

Often I get along more with these guys than the British Pakistanis.

So you get along better with, by your own admission, those with "a sense of elitism among the Pakistanis who are from the upper rungs of Pakistani society"? Why, do they change their persona when with you by not being elitist towards you? Or you prefer to be around those who regard themselves as being superior to others? Unless of course too you are from the same strata as them?

 

[Yossarian]

Canadian passport allows visa free entry or visa at arrival to 172 countries, for usa citizens, this number is 160 and for British passport it's 175.

The Canadians I know hate being thought of as being Americans when abroad. A bit like the Scots not liking being called English.

 

[MenInG]

If you are born in Pakistan then there is nothing which will make you anything other than Pakistani!

 

[the Great Khan]

well mixed bag. Personally I think id be fine because I grew up there and i speak urdu fluently and read it too. I could blend in pretty easily..when i first moved there though it was really really hard..i spoke broken urdu, was made fun of by the kids at school and teased alot. But you ride it out and it took about 6-8 months and I was one of them. The key is to try to make an effort. Not think your bigger than them.

I found some of the elite pakistani kids a bunch of arrogant sob's. they would not speak urdu and looked down on those who did or were from a slightly poorer background. I didn't like them and made my feelings. clear..

conversley briti paks treat pakistanis like dirt. Freshy off the boat is a common phrase. But most asians (indians pakistanis etc) are a bunch of idiots here. , arrogant, losers who will never amount to anything..(yeah ok im generalising but there are many like that and they are generally the ones who think like that)
walking around with their stupid RNB tunes in their ears..newsflash losers your gonna end up on the scrap heap unless you buck up!! innit..

 

[Dios]

So you get along better with, by your own admission, those with "a sense of elitism among the Pakistanis who are from the upper rungs of Pakistani society"? Why, do they change their persona when with you by not being elitist towards you? Or you prefer to be around those who regard themselves as being superior to others? Unless of course too you are from the same strata as them?

They tend to be more cultural and generally more well-rounded than BritPaks.

I don't condone their attitude towards British Pakistanis. It was just an observation.

 

[MenInG]

There is a sense of elitism among the Pakistanis who are from the upper rungs of Pakistani society towards the Pakistanis born and brought up abroad. I work with and in university have met many Pakistanis who had their schooling done in the elite schools of Karachi and Islamabad and then later on they have come to the UK to complete their higher education and they tend to maintain a distance from the British Pakistanis.

Often I get along more with these guys than the British Pakistanis.

Absolutely not true.

I studied in the so called elite schools of Karachi and I get along now and have always got along well with Brit Pakistanis.

 

[Yossarian]

They tend to be more cultural and generally more well-rounded than BritPaks.

I don't condone their attitude towards British Pakistanis. It was just an observation.

So being "culturally and generally more well-rounded" outweighs, to use your own words, "a sense of elitism", ie a superiority complex?

Sorry to say, but I wouldn't go within a mile of someone who exhibits a sense of superiority, even if not openly towards me. Because if they have such a high opinion of themselves, and by inference a disdain for those they don't deem as being from the same elite class, then it's easy to figure out their opinion of you even if they make attempts to hide it. Unless of course they regard you as being from the same 'elite class' as themselves.

But then again, that's a key aspect of Pakistani society and the main reason why there is a such a wide gulf between the rich and poor. And why many of those who live outside Pakistan find it so vile.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Not born outside but have lived outside from a young age. I look down on the burger angraiz-wannabe families and make fun of them. But I have great respect for all the hardworking people in Pakistan which are the majority and would never make fun or look down on them.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Two Pakistani aunties will meet each other after a long time in a crowded grocery store and hold up everyone behind them by parking their shopping carts in the middle of the aisle to greet each other. All the while people behind them are just giving them dirty looks but are too nice to say anything.

Or a new immigrant from Pakistan decides to keep his jacket near the kitchen where his mom does all of the desi cooking. Which means the jacket has a very strong desi food scent, which might be good smelling on food, but if your clothes smell like it you are deemed to have bad hygiene.

You as a fellow brown person do feel a little insecure that other people will make sweeping generalizations of how all brown people are.

Maybe they get defensive and that is why they look down on other brown people and call them fresh off the boat.

It all lies in their own insecurities that they will be judged on actions of others.

When in reality, they or their parents were probably the same when they first immigrated.

 

[Slog]

I find a significant minority of the overseas Pakistanis really confused about their life and identity. Especially from the middle to lower class background whose parents or grandparents went to the west from the proverbial pind. They seem very out of touch with the reality of Pakistan or their own situation so you can just pity them. Don't seem very ambitious either.

 

[Slog]

Absolutely not true.

I studied in the so called elite schools of Karachi and I get along now and have always got along well with Brit Pakistanis.

Times have moved on

Pakistan of today is very different from Pakistan of decades ago esp for kids in these so called elite schools

 

[Slog]

PREACH bro. Don't seem to understand why when we (the ones living IN Pakistan) seem to think we have it better.

You do If you're from upper middle class or the upper strata.

Most of the Pakistani immigrants in the west went from pinds and left purely because their lives weren't much in Pakistan. So for them it's obv a better deal having the support and welfare system of the west.

 

[JaDed]

Not born outside but have lived outside from a young age. I look down on the burger angraiz-wannabe families and make fun of them. But I have great respect for all the hardworking people in Pakistan which are the majority and would never make fun or look down on them.

Where u from if u don't mind me asking? Aus?

 

[ExpressPacer]

It's probably more to do with the fact that having American, Britsh etc. passports gives them extra 'privilages' compared to Pakistanis, such as visa-free (or much easier) travel to most countries, better treatment by the authorities in those countries, better support and services provided by the Embassies of these countries when abroad.

A simple example is the ease with which a U.S. or British national can obtain a visa to vist Pakistan versus the other way around.

When living/working in the Middle East, despite being Pakistani in appearance, I was treated very differently in many different places, such as checking into hotels, visiting goverment offices etc. when it became it was discovered that I was a British national as opposed to other Pakistani nationals.

The companies I worked on projects for all had grading systems in terms of salary and benefits, based upon nationality, with local citizens and Western passport holders at the top, followed by nationals of other Arab Gulf countries, followed by .... for doing the same job.

One last point.

The US passport holders see themselves as being the most superior of all, even superior to Canadians and Brits. This even applies, actually more so, to those newly arrived in the USA and only recently having obtained US citizenship. You can even see this on this PakPassion forum (in the way many of them make derogatory comments about communities of British citizens of Pakistani origin).
And this is likely to become even more so due to Trump's Presidency.

Yeah, bro I would agree. You're right. But I'm just stating that it pisses me off a little. I'm not saying it pisses everyone here off or that all overseas Pakistani's are like this but this is a small thing I've noticed and I can't help being offended when I'm looked down at because of my nationality by the same people who are also ethnically from here.

Anyway bro, one important thing I'd like to ask is, your point about the visa issues and etc are very much true and undeniable but what was the case when Pakistani's did not have any issue getting visas either? Pre 911 era.

 

[Yossarian]

Yeah, bro I would agree. You're right. But I'm just stating that it pisses me off a little. I'm not saying it pisses everyone here off or that all overseas Pakistani's are like this but this is a small thing I've noticed and I can't help being offended when I'm looked down at because of my nationality by the same people who are also ethnically from here.

Anyway bro, one important thing I'd like to ask is, your point about the visa issues and etc are very much true and undeniable but what was the case when Pakistani's did not have any issue getting visas either? Pre 911 era.

It's always been lopsided as far as I know. UK and other Western citizens didn't use to require visa's at all for visiting Pakistan, but Pakistanis have required visas for visiting most Western countries almost from the outset. It just so happened (as is still the case now) that wealthy and/or famous (eg cricketers) Pakistanis found it easier to obtain visas than the less well off.

Don't forget, the main criteria used by British High Commission's visa issuing officers (same for all other Western nations) for issuing temporary visitor, student or business (or similar) visa is to be satisfied that:
a) The individual has the financial means to support themselves whilst they're in the UK
b) They have full intentions of leaving the UK and returning back to their country before the expiry of the visa, and do not intend to overstay, temporarily or permanently.

 

[Pakistanian]

It's probably more to do with the fact that having American, Britsh etc. passports gives them extra 'privilages' compared to Pakistanis, such as visa-free (or much easier) travel to most countries, better treatment by the authorities in those countries, better support and services provided by the Embassies of these countries when abroad.

A simple example is the ease with which a U.S. or British national can obtain a visa to vist Pakistan versus the other way around.

When living/working in the Middle East, despite being Pakistani in appearance, I was treated very differently in many different places, such as checking into hotels, visiting goverment offices etc. when it became it was discovered that I was a British national as opposed to other Pakistani nationals.

The companies I worked on projects for all had grading systems in terms of salary and benefits, based upon nationality, with local citizens and Western passport holders at the top, followed by nationals of other Arab Gulf countries, followed by .... for doing the same job.

One last point.

The US passport holders see themselves as being the most superior of all, even superior to Canadians and Brits. This even applies, actually more so, to those newly arrived in the USA and only recently having obtained US citizenship. You can even see this on this PakPassion forum (in the way many of them make derogatory comments about communities of British citizens of Pakistani origin).
And this is likely to become even more so due to Trump's Presidency.

I was born and raised in America, I certainly don't think that way and I've got British-Pakistani friends who have moved here and people like to chill with them cause we like the way they talk. Pakistani-Americans are more openminded and zen about life.

 

[Pakistanian]

You do If you're from upper middle class or the upper strata.

Most of the Pakistani immigrants in the west went from pinds and left purely because their lives weren't much in Pakistan. So for them it's obv a better deal having the support and welfare system of the west.

That ain't true, we got a lot of people from Lahore and Karachi here and would never move back, my fams from the cities too, we were never villagers but wouldn't move back to Pakistan. I respect my relatives who choose to stay there, they got there reasons, they're doing well but I wouldn't say upper class Pakistanis are better off I mean you guys still have issues with electricity, clean drinking tap water, crime and terrorism. If Pakistan can fix that then maybe it'd make sense.

 

[Slog]

That ain't true, we got a lot of people from Lahore and Karachi here and would never move back, my fams from the cities too, we were never villagers but wouldn't move back to Pakistan. I respect my relatives who choose to stay there, they got there reasons, they're doing well but I wouldn't say upper class Pakistanis are better off I mean you guys still have issues with electricity, clean drinking tap water, crime and terrorism. If Pakistan can fix that then maybe it'd make sense.

i said most.

my point is for people doing well theres not many reasons

 

[Yossarian]

I was born and raised in America, I certainly don't think that way and I've got British-Pakistani friends who have moved here and people like to chill with them cause we like the way they talk. Pakistani-Americans are more openminded and zen about life.

And I've lived/worked in both the UK (being a UK citizen) and the USA (over 3 years), as well as working for US companies in the Middle East. You may not like hearing it, but as said earlier, and especially applicable to those Pakistanis born and bred in Pakistan, fairly recent arrivals to the USA and now become U.S. Citizens, they take on the same Trump like traits when they're outside the USA. The "You can't touch us, we're Americans!" attitude.

Remember Raymond Allen Davis? Can you imagine if it was some Rashid Akram Daud doing similar in the USA?

 

[Pakistanian]

i said most.

my point is for people doing well theres not many reasons

There are plenty of reasons for them to move out to or at least have dual nationality as a back up plan, why do you think so many wealthy and powerful Pakistanis own properties in Dubai? It's an escape route for them, or in other words a "safe space". I know people within my family that had to leave temporarily even if they were in charge of big businesses and banks or were former high ranking army officers, many of them had to leave cause of security threats. That's the biggest reason why people leave, they don't feel safe in Pakistan no matter what class they belong to.

 

[Pakistanian]

And I've lived/worked in both the UK (being a UK citizen) and the USA (over 3 years), as well as working for US companies in the Middle East. You may not like hearing it, but as said earlier, and especially applicable to those Pakistanis born and bred in Pakistan, fairly recent arrivals to the USA and now become U.S. Citizens, they take on the same Trump like traits when they're outside the USA. The "You can't touch us, we're Americans!" attitude.

Remember Raymond Allen Davis? Can you imagine if it was some Rashid Akram Daud doing similar in the USA?

Well America's #1, what do you expect? A little arrogance is warranted.

 

[ExpressPacer]

That ain't true, we got a lot of people from Lahore and Karachi here and would never move back, my fams from the cities too, we were never villagers but wouldn't move back to Pakistan. I respect my relatives who choose to stay there, they got there reasons, they're doing well but I wouldn't say upper class Pakistanis are better off I mean you guys still have issues with electricity, clean drinking tap water, crime and terrorism. If Pakistan can fix that then maybe it'd make sense.

Just to state a few facts, a lot of researches and scientists have time and again said that drinking tap water is not safe even in America and Canada, so, that point is invalid. However, it may not be as bad as Pakistan's tap water. As for crime, I hope you realise that New York has higher crime rate than all cities in Pakistan, let alone Detroit and Oakland etc.

As for terrorism, of course, that is undeniable, but the situation is much better to what it was about a decade ago and most cities in Pakistan are terror free and it goes without saying that things are still improving. Since you live in America, let me remind you, USA is not terror free either and most security experts expect things to get worse in Trumps regime. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a shootout at an airport in USA which lead to many innocent people losing their lives. To add to that, you have many other forms of terror going on in USA. White supremacy being the most notable one. Antisemitism, Black radicalism, Islamic terrorism and many notorious cults and secret societies take part in terror to this day.

In fact, I read an article around 6 months ago that said USA was much more prone to Islamic terrorism than Pakistan. SO, not as safe as you make it sound.

The only benefits I see of living in America are the welfare benefits. Better facilities for the handicapped, retired, young and poor. Not to forget however 2 million people live on the streets despite 54% of them being employed in the same USA you hold so highly.

 

[Yossarian]

There are plenty of reasons for them to move out to or at least have dual nationality as a back up plan, why do you think so many wealthy and powerful Pakistanis own properties in Dubai? It's an escape route for them, or in other words a "safe space". I know people within my family that had to leave temporarily even if they were in charge of big businesses and banks or were former high ranking army officers, many of them had to leave cause of security threats. That's the biggest reason why people leave, they don't feel safe in Pakistan no matter what class they belong to.

99+% of the people of Pakistan have no such safe haven option. They have to make the best of where they are. So why should the wealthy and powerful, who are better positioned to make positive changes to Pakistan, have the luxury of jumping ship and jumping into lifeboats at the first sign of trouble instead of trying to save the sinking ship and leaving the rest to drown?

It's exactly due to these wealthy and powerful double dealers that Pakistan is in the state its in.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I guess it depends from person to person but I definitely know a lot of people back in Karachi who believe that overseas Pakistanis have it easy and live much grander and comfortable lives than those in Pakistan.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

That is true for pakistanis who moved abroad at an early age too and it’s pretty ironic. I prefer Pakistanis born in Pakistan tbh

 

[IMMY69]

I was born in Pakistan but grew up in London.
I never look down on Pakistan. If anything I love Pakistan and only want the best for the country and it's people.

This thing about the Passport and easy entry in to other countries was fine before 9/11.
Now even with a British Passport, yeah sure you get in to the country, but the "born In Pakistan" bit will always be there and I do get the extra look (and questions) when going through immigration. The states being much more harder where you get pulled up and sent to a different cue.

So in many ways, you can take the person out of Pakistan, but you can never take Pakistan out of the person.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Magic money tree...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis born out of Pakistan look down upon Pakistanis born in Pakistan. FACT

I like a lot of the people in Pakistan, most of my family there are doing well and happy with their lot. The only ones I don't like are the ones who post here that whine a lot, but then I don't think Pakistanis who live in Pakistan like them either.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Not gonna lie, I catch myself judging certain Pakistani traits and attitudes .I know that's where I come from and I shouldn't but I guess I am turning into a coconut. Its sad because I have some great childhood memories of teh place but recently I've just been getting more and more cynical about the people and the country in general . Maybe I need to go back more often .

 

[gkb101277867]

I guess it depends from person to person but I definitely know a lot of people back in Karachi who believe that overseas Pakistanis have it easy and live much grander and comfortable lives than those in Pakistan.

This.

Although it may be true in a general sense but it isn't the reality in all cases.

For example I'm quite sensitive and I'm one of those types who is really affected by what people think of me. I've lived a very hard life with several illnesses and disability but have still tried my best to succeed in life. Alhumdulillah I got educated and graduated from university etc and I remember my parents and freinds were all over the moon for me especially since they knew the hardships I faced.

However, I was shocked to see the attitudes of my cousins who lived abroad who never congratulated me and passed of comments like "it was easy for you" and "you live in Britain so you never did anything special" and "you've had everything handed to you because you are British". It really was very hurtful.

Over the last year I got severely ill and had to quit my job. I was heartbroken and was getting comments from my Pakistani cousins calling me lazy and that I didn't want to work because I get benefits etc. It really hurt me deeply. Plenty of my friends tell me to ignore such people but it's difficult when they are your family and your families are always in direct communication.

Although in no way I am saying all Pakistanis are like that. I'm sure many of them think differently too

 

[Abdul]

I hate fobs but as long as you're not being weird around other people, I won't make fun of you in any way. It's generally not the case though because all the fobs I've met are weird to the core.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I hate fobs but as long as you're not being weird around other people, I won't make fun of you in any way. It's generally not the case though because all the fobs I've met are weird to the core.

What is your definition of weird. Me and so many of my friends are fobs but we all see so many strange traits in so many confused expats. Perhaps expat desis should try to welcome such fobs instead of looking down uponthem and being scared of them. I have no complaints since I make friends easily anywhere but I see some stuck up expat desis mistreat so many newcomers and it really angers me.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Most of my friends in Canada are either white people or desis who just moved there. Most expat desis I’ve encountered just seem confused to me and are just so boring to be around. Low quality taste in stuff. Obviously there are exceptions. One of my closest friends here was born here

 

[ManFan]

Not so much the younger demographic but the overwhelming majority of the middle-aged to elder generation are ignorant opportunists.

The general consensus for Pakistanis, especially from the villages, is that they are masagonistic control freaks with a lack of education on how to communicate with people. And I have resided in the villages of Pakistan and seen them in overseas nations. Their mentality is America, U.K, France, etc, are evil but try their best to bring their families there.

 

[gkb101277867]

Reading through this thread it seems like there's a lot of negativity towards overseas pakistanis especially brits by the people living in Pakistan.....and it could possibly be justified as well.

A lot of people in Pakistan criticise Britain and the brits but if they had an opportunity to move here they would bite your hand off for it.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Reading through this thread it seems like there's a lot of negativity towards overseas pakistanis especially brits by the people living in Pakistan.....and it could possibly be justified as well.

A lot of people in Pakistan criticise Britain and the brits but if they had an opportunity to move here they would bite your hand off for it.

Not true at all. The poor people in Pakistan would trade places with either the middle/upper class if they are living in Pakistan or abroad. A lot of thenmiddle/upper class are happy with where they are.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Reading through this thread it seems like there's a lot of negativity towards overseas pakistanis especially brits by the people living in Pakistan.....and it could possibly be justified as well.

A lot of people in Pakistan criticise Britain and the brits but if they had an opportunity to move here they would bite your hand off for it.

It's an old thread so I didn't read it through properly, but if anything it's the foreign based Pakistanis who are criticising the home based Pakistanis. Native Pakistanis usually don't say that much on here.

 

[Pakistanian]

Not true at all. The poor people in Pakistan would trade places with either the middle/upper class if they are living in Pakistan or abroad. A lot of thenmiddle/upper class are happy with where they are.

Not really, I know many rich Pakistanis that have dual nationality as a back up plan if things go south, most of the rich prefer to send their kids to study in the west cause they can't be bothered to improve the education system in Pakistan.

Being happy with mediocrity isn't a good thing, it means there's no drive for improvement, to make things better. Getting mugged while walking down the street or not having electricity/water/gas for many hours a day shouldn't make somebody happy.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Not really, I know many rich Pakistanis that have dual nationality as a back up plan if things go south, most of the rich prefer to send their kids to study in the west cause they can't be bothered to improve the education system in Pakistan.

Being happy with mediocrity isn't a good thing, it means there's no drive for improvement, to make things better. Getting mugged while walking down the street or not having electricity/water/gas for many hours a day shouldn't make somebody happy.

You’re misinterpreting what I meant. I never implied that I am happy with what is wrong with Pakistan not should anyone be. The dual nationality and sending kids abroad to study is true but many upper middle class Pakistanis settle down in Pakistan because they have comfortable lives.

 

[Pakistanian]

You’re misinterpreting what I meant. I never implied that I am happy with what is wrong with Pakistan not should anyone be. The dual nationality and sending kids abroad to study is true but many upper middle class Pakistanis settle down in Pakistan because they have comfortable lives.

Is comfortable the same as boring? I've visited Pakistan and have seen the life of the rich over there, it's quite boring. In America people have hobbies and like to go outdoors and do stuff, I feel like comfortable in Pakistan means lounging around and eating food, staying up all night and sleeping all day.

 

[Kroll]

I've noticed some of my relatives who reside in Pakistan can be a bit snidey in their remarks in trying to convey subtlety that their behaviours and etiquette are somewhat superior to the way we behave in the west. However, they have no idea and I don't like to be rude back. And yes, as others have mentioned, we're all exceedingly wealthy with a magic money tree the in the rose garden.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Is comfortable the same as boring? I've visited Pakistan and have seen the life of the rich over there, it's quite boring. In America people have hobbies and like to go outdoors and do stuff, I feel like comfortable in Pakistan means lounging around and eating food, staying up all night and sleeping all day.

Life in Pakistan is anything but boring if you have money. Any Pakistani who recently moved to Canada won’t hesistate to answer which country is more fun to live in

 

[Pakistanian]

Life in Pakistan is anything but boring if you have money.

I've never seen rich people do fun stuff over there. Do you guys go surfing? Have rich Pakistanis built any skate parks or amusement parks?

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I've noticed some of my relatives who reside in Pakistan can be a bit snidey in their remarks in trying to convey subtlety that their behaviours and etiquette are somewhat superior to the way we behave in the west. However, they have no idea and I don't like to be rude back. And yes, as others have mentioned, we're all exceedingly wealthy with a magic money tree the rose garden.

Well I’ve been asked by an oversees Pakistani whether I used to get enough to eat in Pakistan so I’d take “a bit snidey” over that. It’s the overseas Pakistanis that are rightfully causing Pakistanis to make such assumptions about them.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I've never seen rich people do fun stuff over there. Do you guys go surfing? Have rich Pakistanis built any skate parks or amusement parks?

This post is so American

 

[Pakistanian]

This post is so American

Exactly, cause we're fun loving outdoorsy people. I don't see how sleeping all day, watching movies and eating is any fun lol.

Pakistan has so much nature, y'all privileged Pakistanis should make use of it.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Exactly, cause we're fun loving outdoorsy people. I don't see how sleeping all day, watching movies and eating is any fun lol.

Pakistan has so much nature, y'all privileged Pakistanis should make use of it.

Buddy don’t even go there. Americans are well known for having some of the laziest people in the world. We do make use of it. There is a lot of domestic tourism. Perhaps for some people “surfing, amusement parks and skate parks” is the definition of fun. But for others it’s hanging out with friends late at night while drinking chai and eating amazing food. Who are you to decide what fun is? Your Americanized version of what is fun is not universal. There is a lot more to life in Pakistan than just sleeping during the day as you put it. I have lived abroad for 6 years of my life and know enough people who have lived abroad for a substantial period of time to know what life is like in different countries. Most if not all of the fun that can be and in America can be had in Pakistan. Even if you talk about partying, I’ve been to parties in Karachi that blow away any I’ve been to here in Canada. They’re hardcore and the taboo aspect makes them even more fun but that’s for a different discussion. The only difference is that the poor people in Pakistan have it really bad unlike the poor here in Canada who can still access a lot of entertainment, and I wish that weren’t the case. Though I’ve seen content and happy poor people in Pakistan as well

 

[Abdul]

Exactly, cause we're fun loving outdoorsy people. I don't see how sleeping all day, watching movies and eating is any fun lol.

Pakistan has so much nature, y'all privileged Pakistanis should make use of it.

Fully agreed with you.

 

[Kroll]

Exactly, cause we're fun loving outdoorsy people. I don't see how sleeping all day, watching movies and eating is any fun lol.

Pakistan has so much nature, y'all privileged Pakistanis should make use of it.

More and More Pakistanis are going up to the northern areas for vacation/short breaks, but these places need more investment and development plus it's not cheap for the ordinary Pakistani.

 

[HussainRx8]

When I first moved from Pakistan to Canada, the local white kids were very open and easy to get along with, while the Pakistani Canadians used to bully and say names like "fresh off the boat". Unfortunately for them a fobby kid was better than them in sports and school and hence had alot more friends while they were secluded to their brown kid bubble.

I share your sentiments. As a recent immigrant, it was much easier to relate to other immigrants than American-born Pakistanis. Some were nice, while others were downright rude.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

When I first moved from Pakistan to Canada, the local white kids were very open and easy to get along with, while the Pakistani Canadians used to bully and say names like "fresh off the boat". Unfortunately for them a fobby kid was better than them in sports and school and hence had alot more friends while they were secluded to their brown kid bubble.

So true tbh. As I said before. Most of my friends here are white or have recently moved to Canada