What's new

What has been the bigger disappointment? New Zealand pulling out or England pulling out?

Nikhil_cric

T20I Star
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Runs
32,308
I know fans are blaming NZC for setting a precedent and that may be true but that may just be because NZ were scheduled to tour first. Also, Pakistan did not really do a massive favour to NZ as NZ were a Covid-free country when PAK toured.

On the other hand, ECB absolutely owe Pakistan a lot! Since the last time England toured the UAE, Pakistan have played 3 test tours, multiple LOI tours, CT '17 and CWC '19 in England and ECB have generated a lot of revenues from these Pakisan tours.

And now they have refused a 3 day tour of Pakistan after all that? Atleast NZ had a long tour scheduled. Surely it is a lack of good faith shown by ECB and an unwillingness to reciprocate by ECB?
 
Nz off course Theyve paved the way for all the other boards to do the same And put back intnl cricket years overnight
 
New zealand because that's what has caused the issue of other teams possibly not touring now.
 
New Zealand.

We put up with their racist nonsense during the tour to NZ. This is how they go on to repay us.
 
Need to make NZ and the NZCB pay for this dearly
 
New Zeland was the trigger for England withdrawing but at least NZ did it on the back of an perceived threat communicated by their government.

England on the other hand came out with what can only be described as a symbolic statement to justify their decision to withdraw. Security wasn't even mentioned. Instead they talked about player fatigue, Covid bubbles and didn't actually point to ANY actual reason for pulling out. I am a cool and calm person but when I read that statement, even I found myself feeling so, so angry. And the reason is this -

Pakistan toured England in June 2020, when there were no vaccines, the pandemic was in no control and isolation was required for weeks. We toured again this year where more was known of the virus but the virus was RAMPANT in England. We stayed even when the English squad tested positive shortly before a game. We saved two summer's of cricket for the ECB and they owed us big time. And all we asked is for a 4 day tour in return. And these idiots had the audacity to talk about mental fatigue and Covid bubbles to us??? This will never ever be forgotten or forgiven by Pakistan.
 
Given how many other teams have played long series during covid, a team canceling 2 T20s and citing covid and fatigue has to be more disappointing.
 
Last edited:
Truthfully, because of more Pakistani diaspora in UK, no one will blame England.

Although if you look logically, England had to come for 2 matches for a period of 3 days and they refused without any context.

At least NZ could argue the stay was too long.
 
Truthfully, because of more Pakistani diaspora in UK, no one will blame England.

Although if you look logically, England had to come for 2 matches for a period of 3 days and they refused without any context.

At least NZ could argue the stay was too long.

Pretty much this… England’s intel is behind this as well but the bias is there for everyone to see , also it’s easier to pick on NZ than England for many reasons.

But [MENTION=132855]Arsal_AK[/MENTION] made some valid points on this in other thread.
 
Truthfully, because of more Pakistani diaspora in UK, no one will blame England.

Although if you look logically, England had to come for 2 matches for a period of 3 days and they refused without any context.

At least NZ could argue the stay was too long.

NZ has been a soft target. I feel ECB have been let off the hook by fans.

Given how many other teams have played long series during covid, a team canceling 2 T20s and citing covid and fatigue has to be more disappointing.

Yeah. Exactly. It's a lame excuse. I'm surprised people are buying it.
 
NZ has been a soft target. I feel ECB have been let off the hook by fans.



Yeah. Exactly. It's a lame excuse. I'm surprised people are buying it.

It can be argued NZ spread panic in the ranks of the ECB and CA. Had NZ fulfilled its obligations in Pakistan successfully, ECB and CA would have no reasons to not tour Pakistan
 
ECB could easily have sent a team for just 2 days and a night with British Pakistani players and few others to show solidarity.
In and out but would have restored some normalcy.
This looks like something bigger then cricket and some other forces are at play. Or these boards and countries have completely lost faith in Pakistan’s security establishment.
 
Look it is clear all of this has nothing to do with cricket. It is politically driven and reality is these countries will not tour now
 
English didn't even pretend to tour. Flat out refusal. Lame reasons.

NZ had credible (I know Pakistani don't believe it) threats and were in country for a week.

But half the PP is English. So kid gloves them.
 
New Zealand's pulling out definitely. They pulled out out of nowhere.

England probably would've come had it not been for Kiwis.
 
As usual Pak posters are getting it wrong.

Based on the information that has come to light, ECB is the culprit.

They cancelled for no reason. Even after their security experts gave them clearance.

Can't even blame NZC who had to cancel it cos they were asked to.
 
PCB needs to keep the volume up against both the NZCB and ECB and definately needs to relentlessly and ruthlessly demand compensation from NZCB.
 
I know fans are blaming NZC for setting a precedent and that may be true but that may just be because NZ were scheduled to tour first. Also, Pakistan did not really do a massive favour to NZ as NZ were a Covid-free country when PAK toured.

On the other hand, ECB absolutely owe Pakistan a lot! Since the last time England toured the UAE, Pakistan have played 3 test tours, multiple LOI tours, CT '17 and CWC '19 in England and ECB have generated a lot of revenues from these Pakisan tours.

And now they have refused a 3 day tour of Pakistan after all that? Atleast NZ had a long tour scheduled. Surely it is a lack of good faith shown by ECB and an unwillingness to reciprocate by ECB?

I think NZ was the heart break, the refusal to share the report was unjustified and hurtful to Pakistani intelligence and us as a people.

I think you should think and be careful about that, we toured them despite their "intelligence" failing to spot a psychopath who went all guns blazing in Christchurch, so on our end it was a show of support which they slapped back on us.

Pakistan's support mustn't be marginalized but acknowledged/admired.
 
PCB needs to keep the volume up against both the NZCB and ECB and definately needs to relentlessly and ruthlessly demand compensation from NZCB.

NZC have already said they'd discuss financial losses with Pakistan.

My question is is this part of a settlement so that they don't get challenged in court for their bogus report?
 
NZ as they pulled out just a minutes before toss. That was embarrassing.

ENG pulling out was expected after NZ drama.
 
NZ canceled due to security reasons and the government telling them.


But ECB did it for fatigue and covid


British High Commissioner to Pakistan: ECB canceled the tour due to player welfare concerns.


Any sane person will be more disappointed with the ECB decision.


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...cancelled-tour-due-to-player-welfare-concerns

Half the PP is English. Even though ECB have literally backstabbed PCB and NZ had no choice they will keep attacking nz.
 
Everyone who has just said NZ is wrong and it's because you're thinking with your emotions.

NZC had to pull out because they were sent back by their Government, whether the security issue is credible or not is an entirely different matter.

England on the other hand had were not advised to pull out of the tour. They could have gone ahead but instead came up with their own ** narrative of "player welfare".

The responses citing NZ as the bigger disappointment is a reflection of how posters on here have totally lost their heads.

Some of you need calm down and just log out until you've recomposed yourself.

I'm really annoyed not to watch Pakistan cricket and believe me I was really looking forward to the post-Misbah era but what can we do.
 
Last edited:
NZC have already said they'd discuss financial losses with Pakistan.

My question is is this part of a settlement so that they don't get challenged in court for their bogus report?

The PCB is likely to receive a ten times higher amounts from a favourable court verdict vs whatever NZCB is offering. I hope RR and WK do not fall for this trap and take them to the cleaners. NZ should be declared persona non gratta for a while.
 
Everyone who has just said NZ is wrong and it's because you're thinking with your emotions.

NZC had to pull out because they were sent back by their Government, whether the security issue is credible or not is an entirely different matter.

England on the other hand had were not advised to pull out of the tour. They could have gone ahead but instead came up with their own ** narrative of "player welfare".

The responses citing NZ as the bigger disappointment is a reflection of how posters on here have totally lost their heads.

Some of you need calm down and just log out until you've recomposed yourself.

I'm really annoyed not to watch Pakistan cricket and believe me I was really looking forward to the post-Misbah era but what can we do.

England would have been here had NZ not pulled of the drama queenish stunt. Given what NZ did, it gave England an excuse to pull out. The feeling that it is NZ who needs to be made to pay for this for spitting on an entire nation is thoroughly justified.
 
The Kiwi pullout was more than a disappointment and doesn't compare to the ECB. Basically they paved the way for England to backout.
 
The PCB is likely to receive a ten times higher amounts from a favourable court verdict vs whatever NZCB is offering. I hope RR and WK do not fall for this trap and take them to the cleaners. NZ should be declared persona non gratta for a while.

Fully agree, the whole thing is fishy to me.

Ask yourself bro. If you are a board (NZC in this case) and pulled out for a legit reason such as this, why would you willingly pay back or reimburse Pakistan for their losses when NZC perceive this to be Pakistan's fault?
 
Truthfully, because of more Pakistani diaspora in UK, no one will blame England.

Although if you look logically, England had to come for 2 matches for a period of 3 days and they refused without any context.

At least NZ could argue the stay was too long.


Has to be England, their tour was too short to be of any significance. They only reason that tour was being done was to bring England team to Pakistan to show that cricket is back in Pakistan.
And they ran away, just when Pakistan needed them the most. Otherwise it was only NZ, we could have moved on from that.
 
England would have been here had NZ not pulled of the drama queenish stunt. Given what NZ did, it gave England an excuse to pull out. The feeling that it is NZ who needs to be made to pay for this for spitting on an entire nation is thoroughly justified.

If we're talking about New Zealand Cricket Board then no they can't be blamed because it's their Govt who pulled the plug, not them.
 
Not a fan of England or the ECB but there was absolutely no way they could go ahead with their tour without undermining New Zealand and it's government. As soon as New Zealand pulled their stunt, England was in a no win situation. Pull out of the tour and face criticism from Pakistan or continue with the tour and face criticism internationally.
 
Cricket is now almost dead to me.
It will take a huge change is situation for me to change my views.

Pakistan should pull out of the T20 World Cup and not worry about the consequences.
 
If we're talking about New Zealand Cricket Board then no they can't be blamed because it's their Govt who pulled the plug, not them.

They need to reveal the intelligence and its authenticity, if not then they need to pay up.
 
The Times - Abandoned Pakistan cricket tour shows dangers of player power and a weak board

There was puzzlement in the voice of Ramiz Raja, the chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board, as though he couldn’t quite work out what was going on. The issue was the cancellation of England’s tour to Pakistan and a conversation with his opposite number, Ian Watmore. “He appeared as if the decision was out of his hands, that there were other influencers who really made the call in the end on his behalf,” Ramiz said. The only thing he did not add, for good measure, was: “***?”

I am reasonably well versed in the subcontinent by now and understand fairly well, I hope, the differences of cricketing culture and approach between East and West, but it was fascinating to listen to Ramiz on Tuesday to get a sense, again, of how others see us (it’s not pretty by the way). Time and again he used phrases like “western bloc” and “western mentality” in discussing the cricketing divide and how we do not understand the realities on the ground in the subcontinent.

He was right, of course, on this particular issue. If the game’s governing body in England does not understand much beyond its narrow walls, then there are also two strands at play here that outsiders would find incomprehensible: the notion of player power and the weakness of the ECB, both of which are central to an understanding of how decisions such as these can come about.

According to the ECB, individual players were not consulted, but the Professional Cricketers’ Association (PCA), Team England Player Partnership and England Women Player Partnership were, and these were key. How far they had consulted members is moot, but it is hard to think that they did not consult senior playing voices.

Two factors have made the players far more powerful than previously. The first is money, and the way it is distributed, and the second is opportunity. More money has allowed for the players’ advisers, such as the PCA, to be better organised and emboldened in negotiations. The way money is distributed, by a huge retainer contract rather than loaded towards match time, means that the incentives are skewed away from having to play.

Greater opportunity outside of international cricket, through franchised T20 leagues, means the players hold the whip hand. Bizarrely, the ECB has allowed a situation where it, as the employer, has washed its hands of its contracted players for two months of the year during the Indian Premier League (which became longer than two months this year, with players unavailable for the New Zealand series because of it). It has conceded this because it fears the consequences if it takes on the players. Players have new options beyond international cricket.

The results of player power can be seen around the dressing room too. Ed Smith, a bold national selector, upset one or two senior players with his views, decisions and manner. There is no national selector now.

Though an international player once himself, Ramiz would know that player power is not so firmly entrenched in Pakistan. Along with India, Pakistan is one of two full-member nations of the ICC that does not have a player association. Of course, India’s big-name players are powerful but they do not speak as a bloc generally, nor do the less significant names have an association working on their behalf. Pakistan’s players have no representation.

In general, the growing importance of the players’ voice is a good thing. Players deserve to be well remunerated and well looked after, and often their instincts for the game are sound. The days of players being treated like cattle are gone, which is entirely right. In this instance, though, the decision made on their behalf is narrow-minded and selfish.

At the same time that the players have become more powerful, so some governing bodies have become weaker. The ICC, the game’s supposedly ultimate powerbroker, has been reduced to an events-organising company. It runs its properties well — World Cups, World Test Championships and the like — but has little standing where the game’s moral issues are concerned and little influence over the game’s direction. The ICC has had an acting chief executive since July.

In its decision-making this week, the ECB has been weak beyond measure. When the journalist Peter Oborne went on television on Tuesday to eviscerate its decision on Pakistan, he mocked the chairman, Watmore, with the moniker “Invisible Ian”. Watmore has been missing in action, nowhere to be seen, when the decision to abandon Pakistan needed to be explained. Hiding behind a poorly drafted press release is not good enough.

There is precious little feel for the world game on the ECB. Among the non-executives, the only person with any cricketing experience is Lucy Pearson, who played for England between 1996 and 2005 and has since had a distinguished career in education. Andrew Strauss sits on the board but in a non-voting capacity.

A board needs broad-based expertise, and there are those with experiences in law enforcement, banking, private equity, corporate law and accountancy but the lack of feel for or knowledge of the game is apparent.

Its performance shows English cricket in a poor light. It has done significant damage to an already low reputation and ruined a relationship with a full-member nation, Pakistan, who have been gracious visitors to this country in five out of the past six summers. While England and Pakistan relations have not always been good on the cricket field, they have been lately and, as Ramiz has pointed out, the links for Pakistan with England are of a different emotional level from, say, New Zealand or Australia. They feel totally let down.

Player power and ECB board weakness were the driving forces behind England’s aborted tour to South Africa last winter, as they have been here. It was reported in The Guardian recently, that during the discussions around the South Africa issue, the chief-executive, Tom Harrison, who has more feel for the game than most in his organisation, sent Ashley Giles, the director of cricket, an email asking him who exactly was running the show. It is a pertinent question to be asking again this week.
 
They need to reveal the intelligence and its authenticity, if not then they need to pay up.

They need at least reveal the basic details to Pakistani government, otherwise Pakistan can't neutralize this supposed threat. A complete theatre by NZ here.
 
If we're talking about New Zealand Cricket Board then no they can't be blamed because it's their Govt who pulled the plug, not them.

I do find it problematic the precedence this sets, by using the magic word "security" and nothing more specific, and we are just supposed to be ok with that. Complete baloney.
 
Not a fan of England or the ECB but there was absolutely no way they could go ahead with their tour without undermining New Zealand and it's government. As soon as New Zealand pulled their stunt, England was in a no win situation. Pull out of the tour and face criticism from Pakistan or continue with the tour and face criticism internationally.

Eng government openly said that there was no security concern. ECB is not higher than the government. NZC did not pull any stunt. They simply followed their government's direction. ECB pulled a stunt by citing fatigue and covid.
 
I knew NZ would do some sort of drama. In fact I was amazed that they actually landed in Pakistan.

However I really believed that ECB wouldn't let Pakistan down this time especially after all the good will from PCB recently.

Well you live and learn.
 
I knew NZ would do some sort of drama. In fact I was amazed that they actually landed in Pakistan.

However I really believed that ECB wouldn't let Pakistan down this time especially after all the good will from PCB recently.

Well you live and learn.

If they can’t come for 4 nights then how do we expect them to play a full tour. Pakistan should not invite them next year, they’ll end up doing a runner mid way through the series.
 
If they can’t come for 4 nights then how do we expect them to play a full tour. Pakistan should not invite them next year, they’ll end up doing a runner mid way through the series.

Indeed.

Preparations for plan B need to start now.
 
Indeed.

Preparations for plan B need to start now.

If pakistan and the pcb dont learn from these episodes they never will

Look after youself first as nobody else will
 
Last edited:
Australia have turned up. Lets hope they stay.

It could be that it was eventually discovered by Five Eyes that the "credible" threat was actually a hoax based on shoddy intelligence by a novice who took an Indian troll's email seriously and kicked up a hoo haa over it. By the time the New Zealand government and NZC discovered this, they were too embarrassed to make it public and therefore agreed to a tour later this year whilst letting Cricket Australia know about it in private so that the Australian tour could go ahead.
 
Peter Lalor, who has been a cricket journalist in Australia for decades has claimed in his podcast that NZ left purely due to a random death threat made to a player on social media. Make of that what you will.

Lalor is currently in Pakistan, and he says he rejected the security offers from the PCB.
 
Australia have turned up. Lets hope they stay.

It could be that it was eventually discovered by Five Eyes that the "credible" threat was actually a hoax based on shoddy intelligence by a novice who took an Indian troll's email seriously and kicked up a hoo haa over it. By the time the New Zealand government and NZC discovered this, they were too embarrassed to make it public and therefore agreed to a tour later this year whilst letting Cricket Australia know about it in private so that the Australian tour could go ahead.

This is almost certainly the case, for another reason: UK government security advice had remained unchanged for Pakistan tour when ECB decided to pull out and after NZ had pulled out. NZ should seriously be held accountable for their clown move.
 
Last edited:
Who would've thought Australia would be the first Western nation to tour Pakistan.

Let's hope the tour goes ahead and finishes without incident.
 
Peter Lalor, who has been a cricket journalist in Australia for decades has claimed in his podcast that NZ left purely due to a random death threat made to a player on social media. Make of that what you will.

Lalor is currently in Pakistan, and he says he rejected the security offers from the PCB.

We all knew this was the case but NZ were hiding the "evidence" because they know it would make them look silly, without even verifying where the original source came from they decided to take such drastic action........they are a professionally run board and they acted like this, good god.
 
What NZ did will never be forgotten

And never be forgiven
 
So is it Big 2 now? or stil the Big 3 with NZ replacing Aus? End of the day Big 3 are responsible for everything including the Rus-ukraine kerfluffe , innit? anyone but us....yeah...i saw some clip of pak tv anchors go ape over india ki saazish etc, like seriously - over half of india does not even know this series is on and for those cricket lovers like me - am super excited about watching pak play aus - two champ teams.
am barracking for Fawad ahmed - pak's mike hussey - to go big - what a fantastic non complaining attitude he has.
Match will be xciting.
 
Last edited:
So is it Big 2 now? or stil the Big 3 with NZ replacing Aus? End of the day Big 3 are responsible for everything including the Rus-ukraine kerfluffe , innit? anyone but us....yeah...i saw some clip of pak tv anchors go ape over india ki saazish etc, like seriously - over half of india does not even know this series is on and for those cricket lovers like me - am super excited about watching pak play aus - two champ teams.
am barracking for Fawad ahmed - pak's mike hussey - to go big - what a fantastic non complaining attitude he has.
Match will be xciting.

Lol Half of INDIA doesn’t know this series is on?

Warner, Smith, Cummins and other Australian stars have a 90% Indian fans following on their social media accounts. Everyone who watched IPL knows about this series

Stop making things up mate.
 
Lol Half of INDIA doesn’t know this series is on?

Warner, Smith, Cummins and other Australian stars have a 90% Indian fans following on their social media accounts. Everyone who watched IPL knows about this series

Stop making things up mate.

I did'nt mean it as a disrespect to pak or to aus M8, its just that the general overhang of cricket overdose seems to have crept in, into wider indian cricket. Look at the india vs sl test. even though its VK's 100th test, it seems to have been so low key the build up.
the point i am making is your media was jumping up and down as if ants were in their pants about that one looony who sent that email as part of poore india ka saazish, and the rest of the newly updated BIG 3 bandwagon that is commonplace, the average dude woudnt even know this series is on and am sure once it starts, lots will be following.
 
Historic test match completed. Cricket won, fake emails lost. "Credible" threats were proven non credible. Both NZC and ECB should be ashamed of themselves. Foreign teams will be safe in Pakistan insha Allah.
 
Pakistan should be forever grateful to Australia, should support Aussies over Eng / Kiwis. Kiwis fake Mr nice guys while Aussies are the real big hearted people. Glad that we came to know who are the snakes :shakib Nagin Dance
 
Pakistan should be forever grateful to Australia, should support Aussies over Eng / Kiwis. Kiwis fake Mr nice guys while Aussies are the real big hearted people. Glad that we came to know who are the snakes :shakib Nagin Dance

Well done to Australia, but no need to be forever grateful. They are the first team who stopped touring Pakistan and set the tone for others.

This time, they were given a chance to do the right thing and they did. Pleasant surprise
 
Back
Top