What have England got to show for their 5-match series against India?

[Sir Alex]

For a newbie from a SENA country, it definitely is. Both him & Hartley did pretty well. On hindsight it was great that Leach got injured, don’t think he would have done well in India.

Don't just go by averages- they are just results of pace bowlers not doing anything of note and spinners bowling majority of overs and ending up with most number of wickets.

Hartley did better than Shoiab as he actually won a test match at Hyd - again more to do with Indian batters being stupid but still credit where due.

Bashir has been just bowling the same stuff over and over again. His shortcomings were evident at Dharamsala where Kuldeep and Ashwin ran through England batters and got huge turn while he was just bowling largely harmless innocuous stuff for most of the time. Had Jaiswal not being absolutely irresponsible and played that Bazball shot, Bashir's numbers would have looked far far worse. Same goes for stupid shots like the one Sarfaraz played.

I watched every ball in this series and I think Rehan looked arguably the best out of the 3 upside wise. However Rehan being an inexperienced wrist spinner was inconsistent and served up long hops periodically. Instead of backing him, Stokes discarded him. He also used Rehan quite badly - bringing him as late as 40th over.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Hartley impressed me the most from the visiting side. Both with ball and bat, England should invest in him. Off spinners don't work in Australia unless you are Lyon, Swann, Ashwin. Left arm off spin is better there, so Hartley should be prepped for the next Ashes.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not the first time a random bowler picking 5 wicket haul in India. Most of them ended up nowhere in their career. Heck even Root had a fifer in the pink ball Test. I won't read too much into that. They are far away from being finished products

 

[FearlessRoar]

Following Jaiswal's first double century in Rajkot, England opener Ben Duckett remarked that England deserved partial credit for influencing the Indian batsmen's aggressive approach:

"When you see players from the opposition playing like that, it almost feels like we should take some credit that they're playing differently than how other people play Test cricket."

Speaking to the local indian channel, Yashasvi Jaiswal has chosen to remain unfazed by Ben Duckett's controversial comment during the India-England Test series:

"I don’t want to say anything about it. I just need to try and do whatever I can do on the ground that says the best I can do."

 

[cricketcricket79]

7. Ben Stokes is not a great player. He is an average player who produced a few great moments.

Great players show great consistency. He has never been good enough to do so. The English like to hype themselves up too much - Stokes played a blinder in the 2019 Ashes but Kusal Perera played a better knock in South Africa in tougher conditions but no one talks about him as a Sri Lankan legend.

He played a good innings in the World Cup final but it was a stroke of luck that got him over the line and besides, many players have played such knocks in World Cup finals. Not all of them are greats of the game.

Agreed. Stokes has been luckily few times and that has made him to think he is much better cricketer than he actually is. Outside of cricket, he was lucky with the whole legal trial issue too. He could equally have been jailed and barred from cricket forever.

But reality check always comes in. Carlos put him in place. Australia put him in place this Ashes. India tour put him in place. I am sure there will be other soon.

 

[FearlessRoar]

‘4-1 was undeserved,’ says England’s Ollie Robinson on India Test tour drubbing

Despite the disappointing nature of results in India, Robinson said England's Bazball approach is destined to propel the side to the top of international cricket across formats.

England seamer Ollie Robinson said that the recent 4-1 scoreline of their Test series defeat against India was an undeserving reflection of their performances on the tour.

Having opened the series with a 28-run win in Hyderabad, England’s Bazballers had jolted the home side before Rohit Sharma and Co made a remarkable turnaround, winning all four of the remaining Tests.

Robinson, who played a solitary Test in the series and returned wicketless, said: “We were really close to reversing that result. Obviously a catch I dropped in the fourth Test would have helped us but, no, we feel like 4-1 was undeserved really.

“We played some really good cricket and maybe on another tour it could have been 3-2 to us, who knows?” Robinson told on Sky Sports.

The Bazball charm

The tall seamer struck a half-century and bagged a duck as England went down by five wickets in the fourth Test in Ranchi. Despite the disappointing nature of results, Robinson said England’s aggressive brand of cricket under head coach Brendon McCullum is destined to propel the side to the top of international cricket.

England are ranked third in Tests, sixth in ODIs and second in T20s and are currently at the bottom of the nine-team World Test Championship standings.

However, Robinson says, “The brand of cricket that we’re playing is really good to watch for fans and good to play in.

“I think we’re really close to being the best in the world, to be honest. A few one percenters here and there and we can really dominate the world of cricket.”

England, the defending T20 World Cup champions, are slated to take on Pakistan, the runners-up of the last edition, in a four-match T20I series at home before the World Cup campaign in the West Indies and the USA in June. Their next Test assignment will be against the West Indies in July.

‘4-1 was undeserved,’ says England’s Ollie Robinson on India Test tour drubbing

Despite the disappointing nature of results in India, Robinson said England's Bazball approach is destined to propel the side to the top of international cricket across formats.

indianexpress.com

 

[Nikhil_cric]

‘4-1 was undeserved,’ says England’s Ollie Robinson on India Test tour drubbing

Despite the disappointing nature of results in India, Robinson said England's Bazball approach is destined to propel the side to the top of international cricket across formats.

England seamer Ollie Robinson said that the recent 4-1 scoreline of their Test series defeat against India was an undeserving reflection of their performances on the tour.

Having opened the series with a 28-run win in Hyderabad, England’s Bazballers had jolted the home side before Rohit Sharma and Co made a remarkable turnaround, winning all four of the remaining Tests.

Robinson, who played a solitary Test in the series and returned wicketless, said: “We were really close to reversing that result. Obviously a catch I dropped in the fourth Test would have helped us but, no, we feel like 4-1 was undeserved really.

“We played some really good cricket and maybe on another tour it could have been 3-2 to us, who knows?” Robinson told on Sky Sports.

The Bazball charm

The tall seamer struck a half-century and bagged a duck as England went down by five wickets in the fourth Test in Ranchi. Despite the disappointing nature of results, Robinson said England’s aggressive brand of cricket under head coach Brendon McCullum is destined to propel the side to the top of international cricket.

England are ranked third in Tests, sixth in ODIs and second in T20s and are currently at the bottom of the nine-team World Test Championship standings.

However, Robinson says, “The brand of cricket that we’re playing is really good to watch for fans and good to play in.

“I think we’re really close to being the best in the world, to be honest. A few one percenters here and there and we can really dominate the world of cricket.”

England, the defending T20 World Cup champions, are slated to take on Pakistan, the runners-up of the last edition, in a four-match T20I series at home before the World Cup campaign in the West Indies and the USA in June. Their next Test assignment will be against the West Indies in July.

‘4-1 was undeserved,’ says England’s Ollie Robinson on India Test tour drubbing

Despite the disappointing nature of results in India, Robinson said England's Bazball approach is destined to propel the side to the top of international cricket across formats.

indianexpress.com

Delusional

 

[Markhor]

@Ab Fan @Nikhil_cric @Sir Alex

We argued like cats and dogs about England's Test side after the India drubbing where you guys were quite critical of their approach. After another year of Bazball wonder where you stand now. IMO their biggest vulnerability remain in extremes of conditions - prodigious seam or spin.

Whereas Pakistan turned to unprecedent methods to neutralise England's batsmen, New Zealand played into their hands by producing fairly normal pitches that after the new ball is easy for strokeplay. That said beating New Zealand away is a good achievement having failed to do so since 2008, and only Australia winning there since 2018.

The batting is quite reliant on Root, Brook and Duckett with Crawley habitually unreliable, and Pope a complete fraud. I don't know how sustainable Bethell will prove as a Test #3.

I think the biggest (and correct) decision they made this year was moving Anderson on, and introducing Atkinson and Carse. Both are high release point seamers who hit the pitch hard with decent (though not quite express) pace. They can be effective with old Kookaburra overseas - which historically has been a weakness of English seam bowling.

Stokes doesn't look to have too many miles left in the tank however and I'll be surprised if he gets through all 10 Tests vs India and Australia next year. ECB must begin succession planning.

Overall, I think the problem is we're looking for that complete Test side in an era where every team has vulnerabilities. Australia's batting looks alarmingly fragile (evident in the shock Brisbane loss to West Indies and Perth mauling); India were whitewashed at home by New Zealand (with selectors reluctant to move on ageing stars); and while South Africa have done well in this WTC - they haven't toured India, Pakistan or Sri Lanka in this cycle.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

@Ab Fan @Nikhil_cric @Sir Alex

We argued like cats and dogs about England's Test side after the India drubbing where you guys were quite critical of their approach. After another year of Bazball wonder where you stand now. IMO their biggest vulnerability remain in extremes of conditions - prodigious seam or spin.

Whereas Pakistan turned to unprecedent methods to neutralise England's batsmen, New Zealand played into their hands by producing fairly normal pitches that after the new ball is easy for strokeplay. That said beating New Zealand away is a good achievement having failed to do so since 2008, and only Australia winning there since 2018.

The batting is quite reliant on Root, Brook and Duckett with Crawley habitually unreliable, and Pope a complete fraud. I don't know how sustainable Bethell will prove as a Test #3.

I think the biggest (and correct) decision they made this year was moving Anderson on, and introducing Atkinson and Carse. Both are high release point seamers who hit the pitch hard with decent (though not quite express) pace. They can be effective with old Kookaburra overseas - which historically has been a weakness of English seam bowling.

Stokes doesn't look to have too many miles left in the tank however and I'll be surprised if he gets through all 10 Tests vs India and Australia next year. ECB must begin succession planning.

Overall, I think the problem is we're looking for that complete Test side in an era where every team has vulnerabilities. Australia's batting looks alarmingly fragile (evident in the shock Brisbane loss to West Indies and Perth mauling); India were whitewashed at home by New Zealand (with selectors reluctant to move on ageing stars); and while South Africa have done well in this WTC - they haven't toured India, Pakistan or Sri Lanka in this cycle.

Quite a good summary. I just think the approach is a little overrated when the difference is usually the bowling in a Test match.

At least that was the gist of my argument.

In India they were outbowled by Bumrah and the Indian spin trio.


The inclusion of Atkinson and Carse makes England a very good attack in Southern Hemisphere type conditions with the kookaburra ball

Even in this series , was it Bazball style batting that won them the series?

In the first Test , England were 71/4 before NZ dropped Brook and they dropped him 4 more times in the same innings.

In the 2nd Test, England scored 280 in the first dig which was hardly earth shattering.

And then NZ were destroyed by Carse and Atkinson.

 

[James]

Going back to the OP, I do think they’ve learned some lessons from the India tour.

The weakness against spin remains, but that is hardly a new thing for English players or unique to Bazball. The strokeplay hasn’t been so reckless - when England has been on top in match situations since, they’re showing ruthlessness more often. There also won’t be any more playing for personal milestones: Anderson 700 wickets on the board and Bairstow 100 Test caps were hardly worth trading in for such a heavy defeat.

There’s now the core of a decent Test side there for at least the next 5 years in Duckett, Root, Brook, Jamie Smith, Atkinson, and Carse. Interesting to see who ends up captaining them in the post Stokes era, as it probably shouldn’t be Ollie Pope !

 

[jnaveen1980]

Going back to the OP, I do think they’ve learned some lessons from the India tour.

The weakness against spin remains, but that is hardly a new thing for English players or unique to Bazball. The strokeplay hasn’t been so reckless - when England has been on top in match situations since, they’re showing ruthlessness more often. There also won’t be any more playing for personal milestones: Anderson 700 wickets on the board and Bairstow 100 Test caps were hardly worth trading in for such a heavy defeat.

There’s now the core of a decent Test side there for at least the next 5 years in Duckett, Root, Brook, Jamie Smith, Atkinson, and Carse. Interesting to see who ends up captaining them in the post Stokes era, as it probably shouldn’t be Ollie Pope !

At this point England's future looks better than Australia's future. New comers don't take time to settle down. They are delivering from the get go. They should stick with this approach. Only issue Stokes batting form. There will be odd blunders along the way. It is proven timidity brings more failure than bold approach. It works against most teams.

 

[BouncerGuy]

England is doing pretty fine job in New Zealand and have already won a series there because there, spin is not that of an option to lead.

In India, case is different. These english batter have struggled in Pakistan and lost the series to spin, could well be the case in India as well.

But the series is done and dusted. Maybe next time

 

[Bhaijaan]

INDIA vs ENGLAND SECOND TEST AT BIRMINGHAM HAS BEEN SOLD OUT TILL DAY 4