What is the reality of Talibans? Are they Mujahiddens, freedom fighters, terrorists or some puppets?

[The Bald Eagle]

Taliban won the freedom for Afghanistan from Soviets in 1991,they ousted USA in 2021. But still there exists a very polarized view regarding them. Some consider them terrorists, other call them freedom fighters and true muslims. So what are your thoughts on them?

 

[Stewie]

@Major I would expect someone like you to have better understanding of history. Takiban came into existence from the remnants of mujahideen factions that fought in the US and Pakistan back war against the svoviets. They included Islamic redicalized fighters from various nations. After the war ended and US unceremoniously left, they decided to stay and fight off the various faction fighting for superiority over each to form the government in Afghanistan. And called themselves the taliban.

Did Pakistan have a vested interest in backing the taliban? Yes. For stability in the region and to make sure there was no civil war after the Soviet and the Americans left. The west didn’t bother putting a government transition in place and left the soldiers they had trained to take over. What would you then expect? Pakistan was forced to play along with them or else the civil war would have spilt into Pakistan.

Most people especially Hindus should really educate themselves on this part of history in our region. The taliban were a necessary evil. In fact they still are because you simply cannot kill Them off. They really created an unkillable monster.

 

[Stewie]

Taliban are fighters and soldiers. They exist to fight wars. If there is none, they will start one.

They should not be anywhere close to running a government. Everything else about them is secondar. Yes, they performed some miracles fighting the soviets and then resisted the Americans as well. But we all know their flavor of governance has nothing to do with Islam.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Its Afghans. Taliban only came into existence in 1996.

In history arguably the bravest and hardest people to fight/conquer.

The current rulers known as the Taliban, were students (what Taliban means) who rose up to stop the brutal civil war which was raging after the defeat of the Soviets. Taliban bought peace and stability to their land, until 911, which was a false flag to launch brutal wars against Muslim nations, Afghanistan was the first. 20 years later the Yanks left/ran defeated in the middle of the night, leaving them billions of military equipment.

In 100 years, the Afghans defeated the 3 biggest empires of the time. First the British, Soviet and then America/West.

If only they could get to Israel.

 

[Major]

The reality is in the books if people want to read them.

If you want to believe in conspiracy theory that amreeka made taliba than ignorance is a bliss.

Now adays we dont want to read books and just want to watch a few youtube videos and act as experts

 

[Major]

The Mujahideen did not turn into Taliban, this is confusion amongst the people. The Mujahideens had people like Gulbadin Hekmatyar, Ahmad Shah Masood, Jalaluddin Haqqani, Burhanuddin Rabani and Ali Mazari.

These were the local guys, while the international mujahideen ring was being handled by Osama bin Ladin who was financing them.

When the soviets left and later civil war broke in Afghanistan, Ahmad Masood and Burhan Rabbani were part of Northern Alliance, Gulbaddin was part of of Hezbi Islami, Jalaludin formed the haqqani group and was of the taliban, while Ali Mazari died.

These groups were fighting amongst each other.

@Stewie Yes American supported the mujahidin's through Pakistan, and Pakistan were the one providing the weapon training and handing it over to these guys.

America stopped the funding when the soviets left Afghanistan and it was upto Pakistan whether to take back the weapons or not.

When civil war broke, Pakistan was helping the Taliban, not the USA. USA was not providing funds or training.

By saying USA created Taliban, than that means that USA also created Northern Alliance, Hezbi Islami and Haqqani group. Which they did not.

They helped and financed them in a war where both had there own benefits but when the goal was completed they left.

There was no way Taliban would had won the civil war as Ahmad Shah Masood of the Northern Alliance was giving them a tough fight. It was Pakistan that decided to finance it and enter it through its former contacts. Thus, the birth of Taliban is more linked to Pakistan than to USA.

Only people with half baked knowledge say that oh Taliban was created by Amreeka.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Taliban are fighters and soldiers. They exist to fight wars. If there is none, they will start one.

They should not be anywhere close to running a government. Everything else about them is secondar. Yes, they performed some miracles fighting the soviets and then resisted the Americans as well. But we all know their flavor of governance has nothing to do with Islam.

Its their version of Islam. Their parents, their parents and their parents, and their parents have all fought invaders who looted them and raped their women for centuries, the reason for their evolution and their culture.

If left alone , not invaded for 50+ years, they will evolve again into a different form of Islam.

 

[Major]

Taliban are fighters and soldiers. They exist to fight wars. If there is none, they will start one.

They should not be anywhere close to running a government. Everything else about them is secondar. Yes, they performed some miracles fighting the soviets and then resisted the Americans as well. But we all know their flavor of governance has nothing to do with Islam.

again, exaggeration.

They fought off the Soviets because of American money and training. Stingers were not made by Afghan soldiers. They were only trained and handed with big weapons.

Even Columbian Guerillas couldn't fight commies until America provided the Guerillas with weapons and training.

As for the Americans, that is again a wrong narrative. America was not there to conquer Afghanistan, they were able to remove Taliban from govt in just a few months. And the talibs were out running for there lives.

Taliban only came into power because US decided to pull out, and Pakistan was still helping the Talibs out. Its not like the Talibs chased the Americans out. The Americans fulfilled the war by killing Bin laden.

The only thing that the US failed in was training the Afghan army and that is why they wasted 10 years in the pull out. At the same time it was a good thing for Pakistan that the Afghan army failed as it was one less threat for us.

I do agree with you that Taliban cant run a govt. They are stupid people who think policing can be done in a civil society by waving weapons or keeping girls at home

 

[Stewie]

again, exaggeration.

They fought off the Soviets because of American money and training. Stingers were not made by Afghan soldiers. They were only trained and handed with big weapons.

Even Columbian Guerillas couldn't fight commies until America provided the Guerillas with weapons and training.

As for the Americans, that is again a wrong narrative. America was not there to conquer Afghanistan, they were able to remove Taliban from govt in just a few months. And the talibs were out running for there lives.

Taliban only came into power because US decided to pull out, and Pakistan was still helping the Talibs out. Its not like the Talibs chased the Americans out. The Americans fulfilled the war by killing Bin laden.

The only thing that the US failed in was training the Afghan army and that is why they wasted 10 years in the pull out. At the same time it was a good thing for Pakistan that the Afghan army failed as it was one less threat for us.

I do agree with you that Taliban cant run a govt. They are stupid people who think policing can be done in a civil society by waving weapons or keeping girls at home

I fail to see how my post was an exaggeration in light of your statement but whatever…

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Can't say much with the state of current media throughout the world. Those who live in Afghanistan who actually know Taliban can tell us what the truth is.
The picture Khalid Hosseini painted in The Kite Runner with Taliban being outright evil and oppressors and Hazaras being the victims seems more like a forced narrative now.

 

[KingKhanWC]

again, exaggeration.

They fought off the Soviets because of American money and training. Stingers were not made by Afghan soldiers. They were only trained and handed with big weapons.

Even Columbian Guerillas couldn't fight commies until America provided the Guerillas with weapons and training.

As for the Americans, that is again a wrong narrative. America was not there to conquer Afghanistan, they were able to remove Taliban from govt in just a few months. And the talibs were out running for there lives.

Taliban only came into power because US decided to pull out, and Pakistan was still helping the Talibs out. Its not like the Talibs chased the Americans out. The Americans fulfilled the war by killing Bin laden.

The only thing that the US failed in was training the Afghan army and that is why they wasted 10 years in the pull out. At the same time it was a good thing for Pakistan that the Afghan army failed as it was one less threat for us.

I do agree with you that Taliban cant run a govt. They are stupid people who think policing can be done in a civil society by waving weapons or keeping girls at home

A lot of mistakes here.

The war aim of the Yanks was to remove the Taliban, finish them off, not just remove them from the government. Hence why they stayed there for 20 years. They failed, thus lost the war.

The Afghan resistance fought the Soviets because they occupiers, whether or not the Yanks would help them wasnt an issue. Pakistan mainly helped them at that time, with America providing certain military equipment.

Taliban came into power to the end the Civil war, 5 years before the Yanks invaded.

What you call the Afghan army was mainly the Northern Alliance, who were never going to remain without the invaders. No long term threat to Pakistan.

Most Taliban leaders are smart, smarter than the whole Zardari family put together. They will evolve in time, they need to be left alone.

Read the Afghanistan war thread on here and please educate yourself with the basics before sounding off like some historian from Bilos library.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Can't say much with the state of current media throughout the world. Those who live in Afghanistan who actually know Taliban can tell us what the truth is.
The picture Khalid Hosseini painted in The Kite Runner with Taliban being outright evil and oppressors and Hazaras being the victims seems more like a forced narrative now.

Plenty of westerners are now visiting Afghanistan, see some travel vlogs. But yes those living there will know best.

This is interesting.

 

[psyoptica]

The reality is in the books if people want to read them.

If you want to believe in conspiracy theory that amreeka made taliba than ignorance is a bliss.

Now adays we dont want to read books and just want to watch a few youtube videos and act as experts

Another gem. Please prove to me how reading books is better than watching youtube videos?
I’m an avid book reader so I’m interested in how you respond to this.

 

[Major]

Another gem. Please prove to me how reading books is better than watching youtube videos?
I’m an avid book reader so I’m interested in how you respond to this.

let me guess, how should a prove that a book backed by reference and first hand knowledge of the historian or an autobiography is better than a youtube video with no references.

This is like saying a wikipedia page is equivalent to a journal

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Well how worse the Talibans may be but they are a 100 times better than the puppet US backed governments of the past.

 

[Major]

Well how worse the Talibans may be but they are a 100 times better than the puppet US backed governments of the past.

so the group that violates womens rights and the right to education for women is 100 times better than the govt that allowed women to get an education?

Again, 100 times?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

so the group that violates womens rights and the right to education for women is 100 times better than the govt that allowed women to get an education?

Again, 100 times?

Yep bro atleast they didn't let their own civilians getting killed by some US contractors. Also about women education they have pledged to allow that gradually and has already allowed in major cities of Afghanistan.

Afghan girls of all ages allowed to study in religious schools: Taliban official

There are around 20,000 madrassas in Afghanistan, of which 13,500 are government-controlled.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[Major]

Yep bro atleast they didn't let their own civilians getting killed by some US contractors. Also about women education they have pledged to allow that gradually and has already allowed in major cities of Afghanistan.

there is a book called The Breadwinner. A very good book, that tells what it was like for women to live in Afghanistan.

Do give it a read.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

there is a book called The Breadwinner. A very good book, that tells what it was like for women to live in Afghanistan.

Do give it a read.

Ok bro. Will give it a read.

 

[psyoptica]

let me guess, how should a prove that a book backed by reference and first hand knowledge of the historian or an autobiography is better than a youtube video with no references.

This is like saying a wikipedia page is equivalent to a journal

This again is a refelction on your poor background in substandard Pakistani educational system and your lack of effort in developing any critical thinking and understanding of the world.

You made a general statement that all books are better than Youtube videos and mocked the poster above with this intellectual gem. I'm not here to educate you as I think it's a futile exercise but here is my reply to your statement:

Books are indeed backed by references and first hand knowledge but it's important to recognize that youtube videos can also provide valuable information. Many youtube creators also conduct thorough research and cite their sources in the video description or through onscreen annotations. Also, youtube allows for a more immersive and visual learning experience, which can be advantageous for certain topics. It's important to approach both books and youtube videos critically and assess the credibility of the sources and the depth of the content. So, it's not necessarily a matter of one being better than the other, but rather understanding the strengths and limitations of each medium.

So next time when you're thinking of making fun of someone's youtube knowledge, think again. Also I highly recommend reading the book "How to win friends and influence people" which is just the book you should read and identify flaws in your thinking.

 

[Major]

This again is a refelction on your poor background in substandard Pakistani educational system and your lack of effort in developing any critical thinking and understanding of the world.

You made a general statement that all books are better than Youtube videos and mocked the poster above with this intellectual gem. I'm not here to educate you as I think it's a futile exercise but here is my reply to your statement:

Books are indeed backed by references and first hand knowledge but it's important to recognize that youtube videos can also provide valuable information. Many YouTube creators conduct thorough research and cite their sources in the video description or through onscreen annotations. Also, youtube allows for a more immersive and visual learning experience, which can be advantageous for certain topics. It's important to approach both books and youtube videos critically and assess the credibility of the sources and the depth of the content. So, it's not necessarily a matter of one being better than the other, but rather understanding the strengths and limitations of each medium.

So next time when you're thinking of making fun of someone's youtube knowledge, think again. Also I highly recommend reading the book "How to win friends and influence people" which is just the book you should read and identify flaws in your thinking.

i like how people go to lengths to justify their own lack of reading by attacking others.. so no surprises here.

anyways, try referring a youtube video into a researchedd journal/article..

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys its not a youtube vs book reading thread so plz constrain your thoughts on topic here.

 

[psyoptica]

i like how people go to lengths to justify their own lack of reading by attacking others.. so no surprises here.

anyways, try referring a youtube video into a researchedd journal/article..

Ironic coming from you. Ironic indeed. The only reason I even bothered to engage with you is your reply when you yourself have no clue. See I can also gaslight.

 

[psyoptica]

Guys its not a youtube vs book reading thread so plz constrain your thoughts on topic here.

Understood. Sorry for derailing the thread.

 

[CricketCartoons]

They are freedom fighters. Sending american and british invaders back in body bags is something every freedom loving person should be proud of.

 

[Stewie]

They are freedom fighters. Sending american and british invaders back in body bags is something every freedom loving person should be proud of.

IF the Hindus could they would have done the same ti the Mughals and other Muslim invaders. Wouldn’t they?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Its Afghans. Taliban only came into existence in 1996.

In history arguably the bravest and hardest people to fight/conquer.

The current rulers known as the Taliban, were students (what Taliban means) who rose up to stop the brutal civil war which was raging after the defeat of the Soviets. Taliban bought peace and stability to their land, until 911, which was a false flag to launch brutal wars against Muslim nations, Afghanistan was the first. 20 years later the Yanks left/ran defeated in the middle of the night, leaving them billions of military equipment.

In 100 years, the Afghans defeated the 3 biggest empires of the time. First the British, Soviet and then America/West.

If only they could get to Israel.

Haven't the Russians been harder to conquer than the Afghans ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Taliban could never have ruled a country like Afghanistan without public support. Even the most patriotic Brit will admit this today even if some commentators find that a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Easiest way to answer this question is to ask yourself if you would like to live under a Taliban regime.

 

[Major]

Easiest way to answer this question is to ask yourself if you would like to live under a Taliban regime.

+1.

But than again, these are the same people that want to live under freedom in UK and USA and want sharia to be implemented back home.

I still cant get over the post that says living under taliban is 100 times better. A group that didnt allow women to go outside or even get an education compared to a govt which was much much much more civil.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Easiest way to answer this question is to ask yourself if you would like to live under a Taliban regime.

What's that got to do with the question though?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

What's that got to do with the question though?

It answers the question in the OP

What is the reality of Talibans?​

 

[Champ_Pal]

Afghanistan should be left alone. Taliban may be freedom fighters for some and Terrorists for others.
It is up to Afghan people to rise up and kick the religious nuts out and bring in democracy in their country. A country where freedom of thought, religion and choice thrives. The rest of the things will fall in place eventually.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It answers the question in the OP

What is the reality of Talibans?​

That was the reality regardless of the Taliban other than young boys were the playthings of various warlords.

 

[Major]

Afghanistan should be left alone. Taliban may be freedom fighters for some and Terrorists for others.
It is up to Afghan people to rise up and kick the religious nuts out and bring in democracy in their country. A country where freedom of thought, religion and choice thrives. The rest of the things will fall in place eventually.

sorry it cant be left alone.

The taliban is a big threat for Pakistan and if left alone they could go for KPK and areas of Punjab.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Easiest way to answer this question is to ask yourself if you would like to live under a Taliban regime.

Not a very fair question as it depends on where you are now. You could ask the same for pretty much every country, most will say no to their rulers unless they are Arabs.

If I was Afghan I would rather live under Taliban than US and their puppets, the Norther Alliance were evil.

If you are not Afghan of course you wouldnt.

I dont want to live under Tory or Labour rule and most here also dont.

 

[Major]

Not a very fair question as it depends on where you are now. You could ask the same for pretty much every country, most will say no to their rulers unless they are Arabs.

If I was Afghan I would rather live under Taliban than US and their puppets, the Norther Alliance were evil.

If you are not Afghan of course you wouldnt.

I dont want to live under Tory or Labour rule and most here also dont.

whats stopping you from taking immigration to Afghanistan?

Oh right, saying big things behind the protection of your monitor, but not wanting to walk the talk.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not a very fair question as it depends on where you are now. You could ask the same for pretty much every country, most will say no to their rulers unless they are Arabs.

If I was Afghan I would rather live under Taliban than US and their puppets, the Norther Alliance were evil.

If you are not Afghan of course you wouldnt.

I dont want to live under Tory or Labour rule and most here also dont.

To the average person, there is no real difference between a Talib, Afghan Army or Northern Alliance.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

That was the reality regardless of the Taliban other than young boys were the playthings of various warlords.

Taliban sometimes get some form of romanticism and religious praise.

@bald eagle ( for the purposes of igniting discussions), said some people consider them "true Muslims". I do think that many would share this view but just like hindutva supporters sitting in europe/australia when it comes to India, many of those that consider them true Muslims wouldn't ever set one foot in Afghanistan.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Let's be honest: when it comes to freedom fighting, the Taliban mainly blew up their fellow Afghan policemen, army men and civilians.

 

[KingKhanWC]

To the average person, there is no real difference between a Talib, Afghan Army or Northern Alliance.

Not true, read of the civil war in 96. Taliban stopped mass murder, rapes, torture for Afghans. They may want the best, fair and just government in the world like anyone else but out of the options they will choose the current rulers esp as they were victorious sending the Yanks packing.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Let's be honest: when it comes to freedom fighting, the Taliban mainly blew up their fellow Afghan policemen, army men and civilians.

The NA were not fellows lol. They were hand in hand with the invaders, ie enemies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

To the average person, there is no real difference between a Talib, Afghan Army or Northern Alliance.

Are you speaking on behalf of we Brits or someone else?

sorry it cant be left alone.

The taliban is a big threat for Pakistan and if left alone they could go for KPK and areas of Punjab.

And the rest of hindustan if Pakistan ever falls.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not true, read of the civil war in 96. Taliban stopped mass murder, rapes, torture for Afghans. They may want the best, fair and just government in the world like anyone else but out of the options they will choose the current rulers esp as they were victorious sending the Yanks packing.

I honestly doubt it.
Perhaps if they had a political wing and a military wing like Sinn Fein, Palestinian factions etc they could be palatable to the people. Some groups have set ups that once the bloody stuff is over the guys in the suits can come in

But they just have one wing, its full of nutters who can only settle things with bullets and violence.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The NA were not fellows lol. They were hand in hand with the invaders, ie enemies.

Ahmad Shah Massoud fought valiantly against the Russians and continued to fight the Taliban until his assassination.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I honestly doubt it.
Perhaps if they had a political wing and a military wing like Sinn Fein, Palestinian factions etc they could be palatable to the people. Some groups have set ups that once the bloody stuff is over the guys in the suits can come in

But they just have one wing, its full of nutters who can only settle things with bullets and violence.

There is nothing to doubt its accurate history, they came into existence to stop a brutal civil war.

Afghanistan is now a safe land. Again you are wrong, they use their own traditional methods to settle differences or conflicts between people. There is no war in Afghanistan now, no civil conflict.

 

[Major]

Ahmad Shah Massoud fought valiantly against the Russians and continued to fight the Taliban until his assassination.

They think the Taliban = Mujahideens.

The Mujahideens made up alot of factions that later broke up.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There is nothing to doubt its accurate history, they came into existence to stop a brutal civil war.

Afghanistan is now a safe land. Again you are wrong, they use their own traditional methods to settle differences or conflicts between people. There is no war in Afghanistan now, no civil conflict.

It's safe because the guys running around blowing people up have stopped because they are in power.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ahmad Shah Massoud fought valiantly against the Russians and continued to fight the Taliban until his assassination.

He was a great man no doubt. Massoud wanted a united Afgahanistan, reguarly met Taliban leaders, he never really fought them as you are claiming. The issue was with Hekmatyar who was a foreign puppet.

It wasn't the Taliban who killed him. He was murdered on Sept 9th , 2 days before the false flag of 911. Reason he would have joined forces and united all against the planned invasion of his land by over 40+ nations.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It's safe because the guys running around blowing people up have stopped because they are in power.

Something out of a 5 year olds school essay. lol.

Simple question, to keep things easier for you.

Who is more violent, the Taliban or the British army?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I am not going into the debate of mujahideens or terrorists but the most important thing is that they are not mental slaves.

They do what they want to do they never look for any pemission from the masters which most of the democratic countries does and that is what makes them unique.

 

[Stewie]

I will reiterate, they are soldiers. They are not equipped to run a country. They will serve Afghanistan well as part of its army. But their philosophy regarding governance is draconian and simply put.. terrible. They are janglis quite honestly. Give them a weapon and put them on the border. Don’t let them make policy decisions.

 

[Major]

I will reiterate, they are soldiers. They are not equipped to run a country. They will serve Afghanistan well as part of its army. But their philosophy regarding governance is draconian and simply put.. terrible. They are janglis quite honestly. Give them a weapon and put them on the border. Don’t let them make policy decisions.

to be fair, they are not equiped at protecting the borders as people here believe.

They are gureillas and they are good at fighting the war on the hills and mountains, but not protecting the borders which is a complete different strategy

 

[The Bald Eagle]

They think the Taliban = Mujahideens.

The Mujahideens made up alot of factions that later broke up.

Yep you are right, but be it pre 1990 or post 2001 taliban all fought foreign forces with a mission of salvation of their nation from foreign rule so you can term both these factions tachnically as Mujahiddens.

 

[Champ_Pal]

sorry it cant be left alone.

The taliban is a big threat for Pakistan and if left alone they could go for KPK and areas of Punjab.

They have nothing to lose. They have been in those squalid conditions for decades now and they clearly do not care about their fellow Afghans. That is why I said they need to be left alone.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I will reiterate, they are soldiers. They are not equipped to run a country. They will serve Afghanistan well as part of its army. But their philosophy regarding governance is draconian and simply put.. terrible. They are janglis quite honestly. Give them a weapon and put them on the border. Don’t let them make policy decisions.

I will agree with you there, but you have to compare them with the alternatives. Were the warlords any better equipped to run a country? All you had when they were in power was the law of the jungle, ironically making them the definition of janglis, only they had no interest in ruling Afghanistan, but only protecting their own little fiefdoms where rape, torture and kidnapping of young children was out of control.

 

[Stewie]

I will agree with you there, but you have to compare them with the alternatives. Were the warlords any better equipped to run a country? All you had when they were in power was the law of the jungle, ironically making them the definition of janglis, only they had no interest in ruling Afghanistan, but only protecting their own little fiefdoms where rape, torture and kidnapping of young children was out of control.

it’s up to the Afghan people to stand up and fight back such vermin. Just like it is up to the Pakistanis to stand up to the military establishment of the country who have been fooling the people for so long.

I know it’s easier said than done, but these are the harsh realities. Nobody will come rescue you, you don’t have to pigeonhole yourself thinking my options are taliban or the warlords… pml n or ppp only.

if they like taliban so be it, although i highly doubt thats the case.

 

[Major]

it’s up to the Afghan people to stand up and fight back such vermin. Just like it is up to the Pakistanis to stand up to the military establishment of the country who have been fooling the people for so long.

I know it’s easier said than done, but these are the harsh realities. Nobody will come rescue you, you don’t have to pigeonhole yourself thinking my options are taliban or the warlords… pml n or ppp only.

if they like taliban so be it, although i highly doubt thats the case.

no awaam in the world can fight guerrilla warriors bro. Taliban are brutel. Whose gonna stand up to a person who does traffic policing while carrying an Ak on his shoulder.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

it’s up to the Afghan people to stand up and fight back such vermin. Just like it is up to the Pakistanis to stand up to the military establishment of the country who have been fooling the people for so long.

I know it’s easier said than done, but these are the harsh realities. Nobody will come rescue you, you don’t have to pigeonhole yourself thinking my options are taliban or the warlords… pml n or ppp only.

if they like taliban so be it, although i highly doubt thats the case.

Who knows what Afghans want? Doesn't seem like any option is offering something much different from the Taliban other than less law and order. It's a very tribal society, if you ever mixed with people who have originated from there, they are very conservative and also take big pride in their cultural traditions, which are a strange mixture of very good manners, hospitality, revenge and recourse to violence.

Even Pakistan reflects this, the KPK regions and Kshmir are quite similar, to some extent Balochistan as well, then you would get Punjab which is more relaxed, and Sindh which to my mind seems to be a mix of really old fashioned tribals and at the other end of the extreme Bollywood wannabes.

 

[Major]

Who knows what Afghans want? Doesn't seem like any option is offering something much different from the Taliban other than less law and order. It's a very tribal society, if you ever mixed with people who have originated from there, they are very conservative and also take big pride in their cultural traditions, which are a strange mixture of very good manners, hospitality, revenge and recourse to violence.

Even Pakistan reflects this, the KPK regions and Kshmir are quite similar, to some extent Balochistan as well, then you would get Punjab which is more relaxed, and Sindh which to my mind seems to be a mix of really old fashioned tribals and at the other end of the extreme Bollywood wannabes.

wait what?
Like i said, if you want to pretend to be a Britisher than maybe dont talk about Pakistan without any knowledge.

There is mass difference between KPK and Kashmiris. The Kashmiris are known as the Pahari people who speak a different language to KPK people. Infact Kashmiris pahari language resembles more with Punjabi, as its not even close to Pashto.

Every area of Pakistan is well deep with its roots, but it doesnt mean people are very conservative.

Balochistan supports liberal politics more than any province in the whole country. KPK used to be a region that used to support ANP for its left wing ideologies.

There is a massive difference between KPK and Kabul iteself even though both have pakhtoons. Women enjoy more freedom on our side of the country and dont feel the need to have themselves fully covered.

 

[Stewie]

no awaam in the world can fight guerrilla warriors bro. Taliban are brutel. Whose gonna stand up to a person who does traffic policing while carrying an Ak on his shoulder.

When I used the term “fight back”, it was more of a figure of speech. Even Americans couldn’t beat them through force so obviously there has to be a different approach.

The bigger point here is nobody else will do it for them. It has to be them.

 

[psyoptica]

whats stopping you from taking immigration to Afghanistan?

Oh right, saying big things behind the protection of your monitor, but not wanting to walk the talk.

He means to say that for those who don’t have the option to leave Afghanistan would prefer to live under the Taliban. Why would he be moving to Afghanistan leaving his own country behind. Nowhere he has stated Afghanistan under Taliban is better than the UK even though he doesn’t like the current rulers of his country.

 

[Major]

He means to say that for those who don’t have the option to leave Afghanistan would prefer to live under the Taliban. Why would he be moving to Afghanistan leaving his own country behind. Nowhere he has stated Afghanistan under Taliban is better than the UK even though he doesn’t like the current rulers of his country.

He also cant say where Afghans would prefer as he is not an Afghan nor does he live there. Its like me saying the USA prefers to live under Shariah while an American sitting besides me is wondering when did i said that or appoint him as my mouth piece.

 

[Major]

When I used the term “fight back”, it was more of a figure of speech. Even Americans couldn’t beat them through force so obviously there has to be a different approach.

The bigger point here is nobody else will do it for them. It has to be them.

Bro, "Americans beating them" is taken out of context.

USA came in and took control of AFG and these guys had to hide. They didnt push the Americans over, they just left. They failed at the defence of the country when the americans came in, and they failed in an aggressive attack when the americans were there.
So this beat/defeat is written out of context by usual supporters that are always of awe of taliban lunatics.

The Afghan people cant, its like saying North Koreans need to topple the dictatorship, but again they cant. Easier said than done.

These talibs are maniacs, and soon they will become pakistans problem.

 

[Stewie]

Bro, "Americans beating them" is taken out of context.

USA came in and took control of AFG and these guys had to hide. They didnt push the Americans over, they just left. They failed at the defence of the country when the americans came in, and they failed in an aggressive attack when the americans were there.
So this beat/defeat is written out of context by usual supporters that are always of awe of taliban lunatics.

The Afghan people cant, its like saying North Koreans need to topple the dictatorship, but again they cant. Easier said than done.

These talibs are maniacs, and soon they will become pakistans problem.

Taliban is an ideology. And no matter what the western powers have done, they have been unable to beat that ideology. I think this part goes begging with almost everyone.

You bring prosperity and the right implementation of Islamic laws to the country, empower women to get education and invest in their future and you have a chance of beating this ideology.

We saw a lot from the western powers by way of providing the afghans with money, tanks, guns, training, building their army but programs in education, women empowerment, helping them strike the right balance in governance with their culture and way of life and modern ways would have resulted in far better consequences for their “war on terror”

They didn’t do it thinking they can just drone and bomb the taliban and they will die off. It doesn’t work that way. You have to convert the people to the “right” side. Not just kill the “wrong” people and hope only the “right” people left standing is a good result.

 

[Major]

Taliban is an ideology. And no matter what the western powers have done, they have been unable to beat that ideology. I think this part goes begging with almost everyone.

You bring prosperity and the right implementation of Islamic laws to the country, empower women to get education and invest in their future and you have a chance of beating this ideology.

We saw a lot from the western powers by way of providing the afghans with money, tanks, guns, training, building their army but programs in education, women empowerment, helping them strike the right balance in governance with their culture and way of life and modern ways would have resulted in far better consequences for their “war on terror”

They didn’t do it thinking they can just drone and bomb the taliban and they will die off. It doesn’t work that way. You have to convert the people to the “right” side. Not just kill the “wrong” people and hope only the “right” people left standing is a good result.

bro, Al Qaeda was more of an ideology than Taliban. Taliban was maybe an ideolog in the 90s but not today.

The afhgans saw what they did and no Afghan supports them unless they are able to directly benefit from the Taliban.

Its not an ideology any more, its basically, if you cant enter into the position of power through proper politics than join the Taliban by picking up a weapon and you will be part of some group.

Taliban was doing froced recruitment and had child soldiers.

I see why some people say that maybe leave Afghans to themselves. Ok understandable. But than the Afghans need to stop picking up fights aswell. In the 90s they gave protection to Al Qaeda and got themselves involved. Now they will pretty soon be getting involved in a fight with Pakistan in near future.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

wait what?
Like i said, if you want to pretend to be a Britisher than maybe dont talk about Pakistan without any knowledge.

There is mass difference between KPK and Kashmiris. The Kashmiris are known as the Pahari people who speak a different language to KPK people. Infact Kashmiris pahari language resembles more with Punjabi, as its not even close to Pashto.

Every area of Pakistan is well deep with its roots, but it doesnt mean people are very conservative.

Balochistan supports liberal politics more than any province in the whole country. KPK used to be a region that used to support ANP for its left wing ideologies.

There is a massive difference between KPK and Kabul iteself even though both have pakhtoons. Women enjoy more freedom on our side of the country and dont feel the need to have themselves fully covered.

I was not talking about language, I was talking about culture which is more conservative. If you are trying to say that KPK is left wing, ok but reality on the ground seems very different. Same is true of Kashmir and Balochistan as far as I know. That you are trying to make it a language thing seems that you are trying to fudge it without really addressing the main issue.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Talibans are animals and inhumane creatures.

 

[Major]

Meanwhile Taliban is carrying out attacks in Baluchistan on election day.

But nahi they are better than the last afghan govt according to some.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Meanwhile Taliban is carrying out attacks in Baluchistan on election day.

But nahi they are better than the last afghan govt according to some.

ISIS claimed credit for the attacks in Balochistan.

 

[Major]

ISIS claimed credit for the attacks in Balochistan.

Mohsin Dawar, a local politician from that area says otherwise

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Mohsin Dawar, a local politician from that area says otherwise

I'm reporting what the international media is. No idea who Mohsin Dawar is or who he represents.

-----------------------------

Two bomb blasts at the election offices of a political party and an independent candidate in south-west Pakistan have killed at least 30 people and wounded dozens more, a day before parliamentary elections are to be held.

The first blast rocked the election campaign office of an independent candidate in Pishin in the troubled region of Balochistan, killing 18 people and injuring at least 30 people, local authorities said.

Less than an hour later there was a strong blast at an election office for the ultra-conservative party Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI-F) in the area of Qilla Saifullah, also in Balochistan. At least 12 people died and dozens more were injured.

“The situation is tense and we are shifting the injured to hospitals in the provincial capital, Quetta, through helicopter. It was a heavy blast,” said Yasir Khan Bazai, a local deputy commissioner.

Late on Wednesday, Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attacks. Rallies by JUI-F had already come under attack last year in two suicide attacks carried out by the Islamist group, which targeted the party for its affiliation with the Taliban.

The bombings came despite the deployment of tens of thousands of police and paramilitary forces across Pakistan to ensure peace during the elections after a recent surge in militant attacks in the country, especially in Balochistan. The security situation became so precarious in the region that the election commission had considered delaying elections in the province.

The outlawed Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA), which has fought a long-running separatist insurgency in the region, has also been behind attacks on security forces in Balochistan, which borders Afghanistan and Iran. The BLA had warned people against voting in Thursday’s general elections and asked them to boycott the polls.

On 30 January, a separatist Balochistan militant group attacked security facilities in Balochistan’s Mach district, killing six people.

More than two dozen attacks have been carried out in Balochistan in the past week alone. Balochistan’s caretaker home minister, Muhammad Zubair Jamali, said that almost 80% of the province’s 5,028 polling stations have been declared “sensitive”.

Jan Achakzai, the provincial information minister, said internet services would be suspended around sensitive polling stations before Thursday’s polls but added that elections would take place “at all costs”.

Achakzai said: “There is a concern that terrorists may exploit social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, and other similar channels for communication purposes.”

Nawaz Sharif, leader of the PML-N party and widely seen as the frontrunner in Thursday’s elections, condemned the blasts. “These cowardly terrorist attacks a few hours before the elections cannot dampen our spirits,” he said.

Islamic State claims responsibility for bombings on eve of Pakistan election

At least 30 killed in attacks on party office and that of an independent candidate in Balochistan province

www.theguardian.com

 

[Major]

I'm reporting what the international media is. No idea who Mohsin Dawar is or who he represents.

-----------------------------

Two bomb blasts at the election offices of a political party and an independent candidate in south-west Pakistan have killed at least 30 people and wounded dozens more, a day before parliamentary elections are to be held.

The first blast rocked the election campaign office of an independent candidate in Pishin in the troubled region of Balochistan, killing 18 people and injuring at least 30 people, local authorities said.

Less than an hour later there was a strong blast at an election office for the ultra-conservative party Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI-F) in the area of Qilla Saifullah, also in Balochistan. At least 12 people died and dozens more were injured.

“The situation is tense and we are shifting the injured to hospitals in the provincial capital, Quetta, through helicopter. It was a heavy blast,” said Yasir Khan Bazai, a local deputy commissioner.

Late on Wednesday, Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attacks. Rallies by JUI-F had already come under attack last year in two suicide attacks carried out by the Islamist group, which targeted the party for its affiliation with the Taliban.

The bombings came despite the deployment of tens of thousands of police and paramilitary forces across Pakistan to ensure peace during the elections after a recent surge in militant attacks in the country, especially in Balochistan. The security situation became so precarious in the region that the election commission had considered delaying elections in the province.

The outlawed Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA), which has fought a long-running separatist insurgency in the region, has also been behind attacks on security forces in Balochistan, which borders Afghanistan and Iran. The BLA had warned people against voting in Thursday’s general elections and asked them to boycott the polls.

On 30 January, a separatist Balochistan militant group attacked security facilities in Balochistan’s Mach district, killing six people.

More than two dozen attacks have been carried out in Balochistan in the past week alone. Balochistan’s caretaker home minister, Muhammad Zubair Jamali, said that almost 80% of the province’s 5,028 polling stations have been declared “sensitive”.

Jan Achakzai, the provincial information minister, said internet services would be suspended around sensitive polling stations before Thursday’s polls but added that elections would take place “at all costs”.

Achakzai said: “There is a concern that terrorists may exploit social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, and other similar channels for communication purposes.”

Nawaz Sharif, leader of the PML-N party and widely seen as the frontrunner in Thursday’s elections, condemned the blasts. “These cowardly terrorist attacks a few hours before the elections cannot dampen our spirits,” he said.

Islamic State claims responsibility for bombings on eve of Pakistan election

At least 30 killed in attacks on party office and that of an independent candidate in Balochistan province

www.theguardian.com

So you dont know who the locals are than why bothering ???


When the locals are themselves telling who did what, it becomes irrelvent what is being reported.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you dont know who the locals are than why bothering ???


When the locals are themselves telling who did what, it becomes irrelvent what is being reported.

That's not the locals, that's one individual who might have his own agenda. That's why I give more credence to well respected international journals who have no axe to grind and are only interested in reporting the news. The Times also reported ISIS as claiming responsibility for the attacks.

 

[Major]

That's not the locals, that's one individual who might have his own agenda. That's why I give more credence to well respected international journals who have no axe to grind and are only interested in reporting the news. The Times also reported ISIS as claiming responsibility for the attacks.

This is why foreigners should not be commenting.

Mohsin dawar is a local

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is why foreigners should not be commenting.

Mohsin dawar is a local

What has he actually said, and who has backed it up? All we've got so far is you said, he said, no actual quotes. For all we know he could be talking about the false flag outfit TTP. Maybe as a local you can provide some solid evidence linking the atrocities to the Afghan govt.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Having the Taliban in power was certainly in the interests of the Pakistani state.

And many on this forum even were celebrating the return of the Taliban.

 

[albinogonk]

Taliban are fighters and soldiers. They exist to fight wars. If there is none, they will start one.

They should not be anywhere close to running a government. Everything else about them is secondar. Yes, they performed some miracles fighting the soviets and then resisted the Americans as well. But we all know their flavor of governance has nothing to do with Islam.

Which wars have they started? They finish wars, not start them. They're not America.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Having the Taliban in power was certainly in the interests of the Pakistani state.

And many on this forum even were celebrating the return of the Taliban.

My reading of it has been that it's questionable whether the Taliban in power is in the interests of the Pakistan state. Pakistan is still far less fundamentalist than the majority of Afghanistan, and having the Taliban resurgent brings as many problems as it does solutions.

What we do know is that the alternative leadership were more hostile if anything to Pakistan. Karzai was the Afghan equivalent of Nawaz Sharif, no clout at home, merely a mouthpiece for other more powerful forces. He was hated by most Afghans, and that's the main reason he was chased out.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Something out of a 5 year olds school essay. lol.

Simple question, to keep things easier for you.

Who is more violent, the Taliban or the British army?

In Afghanistan?

The Taliban without a doubt. They have killed so many civilians, policemen and children through their 'resistance'. 100s of thousands Afghans died during the war at the hands of the Taliban. Do you thini all of these people were traitors and collaborators? How many Afghans died vs how many foreign troops in this so called resistance?

Britains were by standers just there to give moral support to Americans.

Historically the British army has been more violent worldwide and the Americans of course committed war crimes...but that doesn't make the Taliban good guys.