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What prevents Pakistan from making big advances in science and technology?

What prevents Pakistan from making big advances in science and technology?


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MenInG

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We can make all the fun of India for failing to set foot on the moon but fact is that we are far far behind in many aspect of science and technology.

So the question is why is that.
 
We can make all the fun of India for failing to set foot on the moon but fact is that we are far far behind in many aspect of science and technology.

So the question is why is that.

.Religious extremism has destroyed the social fabric of Pakistan, and our lack of progress in science and technology is a major consequence.

Furthermore, appointing someone like Fawad Chaudhry as the man to lead Science and Technology in “Naya Pakistan” shows where our priorities lie.

We are obsessed with India and suffer from inferiority complex. We take pride in their failures which often tower above our successes. That doesn’t help either.
 
Too obsessed with Religion, Religious duties, being leader of Global Ummah, Armed conflicts and Jihad in Kashmir.
 
Too obsessed with Religion, Religious duties, being leader of Global Ummah, Armed conflicts and Jihad in Kashmir.

India does its fair share of destruction but still does well in science and technology.

You need to think a little clearly.
 
India does its fair share of destruction but still does well in science and technology.

You need to think a little clearly.

India is a bigger country and has a big GDP coz of that

We are neither a big country nor a have a big gdp
 
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.Religious extremism has destroyed the social fabric of Pakistan, and our lack of progress in science and technology is a major consequence.

Furthermore, appointing someone like Fawad Chaudhry as the man to lead Science and Technology in “Naya Pakistan” shows where our priorities lie.

We are obsessed with India and suffer from inferiority complex. We take pride in their failures which often tower above our successes. That doesn’t help either.

Has someone hurt you or something?
I always see you talking smack about Pakistanis.
You talk like you're superior.

Get out of your delusion. No one's obsessed with India. Rather Indian's are obsessed with us
 
I think Pakistan focus is on religion. We look at things from a religious point of view.


Religion is an institution in society, and our religious teachers donot promote knowledge and education. I had read somewhere on this forum how the jewish religion promotes knowledge and that Rabbis promote this alot which is why jews are quite successful in their careers.

Our religious teachers are focused in teaching us Jihad. My religious wahabi qari used to tell me how Jihad was important and his conversation sue to revolve around the concept of Jihad. What was funny is that he used to take pride that creations such as airplane were inspired by Gods creation of Bird.

Posters might say that its the usual rant against Islam, but people need to understand that when you focus too much on religion than it has its affect on the society. But you can also use to it for your own benefit, if you promote education, knowledge and advancement through Islam.

I remember even in my recent religious course in my bachelors, we were made to admire Ibne Khuldum or Ibne Sena, but no recent scientist...


Religion is an institution, and we have used it for political gains.
 
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India does its fair share of destruction but still does well in science and technology.

You need to think a little clearly.

It's not only Pakistan, but most Muslims Nations in the World are lagging in Scientific technology and advancements. The Arab Nations have a lot of Wealth but they are hardly investing any of their wealth in Scientific Research.

Who do Pakistanis look upto? The Mughal Invaders and other Muslim kings of the past, hardly known for any scientific achievements.

Coupled that with Army Worshipping culture in Pakistan, the self appointed saviours of Ummah who will liberate Kashmir from India . There is no room for scientific progress in such a hostile atmosphere.
 
It's not only Pakistan, but most Muslims Nations in the World are lagging in Scientific technology and advancements. The Arab Nations have a lot of Wealth but they are hardly investing any of their wealth in Scientific Research.

Who do Pakistanis look upto? The Mughal Invaders and other Muslim kings of the past, hardly known for any scientific achievements.

Coupled that with Army Worshipping culture in Pakistan, the self appointed saviours of Ummah who will liberate Kashmir from India . There is no room for scientific progress in such a hostile atmosphere.

We look up to the islamic golden age but the fact is most muslim country are not wealthy enough to make significant changes.
 
I think the grip of Religion over governance and common affairs in Pakistan is the biggest hindrance to progressive and scientific growth.

I hope the State and Religion will be separated in the future.
 
Because most Pakistanis are too obsessed with religion and afterlife. Are we expecting Scientific miracles from followers of Molana Tariq Jamil? The youth of Pakistan should be inspired by likes of Perveez hoodbhouy and Abdus Salam instead of the Molvis, Sufis and Pirs.
 
It's not only Pakistan, but most Muslims Nations in the World are lagging in Scientific technology and advancements. The Arab Nations have a lot of Wealth but they are hardly investing any of their wealth in Scientific Research.

Who do Pakistanis look upto? The Mughal Invaders and other Muslim kings of the past, hardly known for any scientific achievements.

Coupled that with Army Worshipping culture in Pakistan, the self appointed saviours of Ummah who will liberate Kashmir from India . There is no room for scientific progress in such a hostile atmosphere.

No idea where all this is coming from.

Its like you want to bring Moghuls into this conversation but couldnt find a thread to post in!
 
While religion and ideology are certainly important factors, their impact on science and technology is blown way out of proportion. It has become a convenient excuse to hide more deep-rooted problems in our education system and institutions. I am yet to meet a person who refused to study science because of religious beliefs. Why does religion only stop us from producing scientists and not doctors or engineers? Why are MBA’s and financial studies so popular and why are interest-based financial institutions like banks one of the largest employers in the country if religion so close to our hearts? The fact is that no matter how religious we claim to be, our real life choices are usually based on hard economic facts. People don’t study science because it does not offer enough financial security.

Our govt’s have also failed to develop linkages between industry and educational institutions without which there can be no scientific progress because at the end of the day science requires money. Our policies have been short-sighted and we have been too slow to respond to global changes. It certainly wasn’t religion that stopped us from taking advantage of the IT boom in the 90’s. Another reason is lack of awareness and mindset. Majority of the people would rather do an MBA or MBBS and look for a cushy job in the middle east rather than study basic science. An MBA marketing soaps and shampoos for an FMCG or an accountant auditing its accounts commands much more respect in our society than a university professor. The only people who study basic science in Pakistan are those who are really passionate about it or those who could't get into more 'desirable' fields like business, medicine or engineering.
 
Actually, Pakistan is advancing in science although it's still behind countries like China, US, India, Japan etc in terms of science and technology.

Pakistan had the highest rises in research output and production of scientific papers last year.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07841-9

If i'm not wrong, Pakistan's IT exports are at an all time high as well.
 
So due to praying 5 times a day, we dont worry about science and technology?


You are confusing following the pillars of Islam with religious-politico ideology.

Some of the best scientists in history have been practicing Jews/Christians. The issue we have in Pakistan is that religion is used as a tool to wield political power, and thus abused. These religious frauds know that education and knowledge will allow the population to question their teachings and credentials, so these concepts are suppressed as 'unislamic'.

Isaac Newton spent far more time trying to crack a bible code than he did on his maths and physics, but he didnt let the former dictate the latter.
 
None of the choices mentioned by the OP for the poll, there is only one factor holding Pakistan back: Religion, and Religion will see to it that Pakistan will always end up being last in the crowd.. Lets be fair, both Indians and Pakistanis are from the same DNA, so it is not the talent issue...
 
None of the choices mentioned by the OP for the poll, there is only one factor holding Pakistan back: Religion, and Religion will see to it that Pakistan will always end up being last in the crowd.. Lets be fair, both Indians and Pakistanis are from the same DNA, so it is not the talent issue...

Please elaborate on why religion is impacting us?
We started late that doesn't mean we're not progressing
Our IT industry is the best it's ever been and is rapidly growing.
 
I don't think religion is the problem for pakistan. For progressing in science you need to have colleges, universities which teach such things. So, invest more in those science & tech universities which do research as well
 
Please elaborate on why religion is impacting us?
We started late that doesn't mean we're not progressing
Our IT industry is the best it's ever been and is rapidly growing.

I can give you an example. I have had an IT company in KHI since 2011, exclusively working for UK clients. We have been fortunate to employ some of the most talented software engineers in the country over that period. However, when my Head of IT (now former) was struggling to initially upskill the resource despite us paying market-leading salaries, I was forced to investigate why.

It became apparent that he was a highly educated guy, but a strict deobandi. And he was refusing to employ anyone not of that sect. And this was all down to the teachings of the maulvi he followed.
 
Religion has always been in conflict with science. The West was able to catapult modern science forward despite religion. Some of their pioneers were in constant battle with or suffered under the Church. But the rest who followed were able to break free of the shackles of the Church because of the efforts over hundreds of years by legends like Galileo.

India is not some scientific thinking legendary place as some of my brethren would like to strut and claim. A lot of our cultural practices are based on superstitions and pseudo science. And we've also achieved hardly anything on our own. But there are also practices that have been entwined with religion (Hinduism) that are based on basic science and probably came into being over hundreds of years of observation and practice. And for some reason, nothing in Hinduism forbids thinking scientifically. There are stupid practices that have sprouted alongside, but there was space for scientific practices if someone with brains was around and decided to use it. Also, modern Hindus like to believe that science was created and flourished in India as part of Hinduism. In fact, all of Western science was imported or stolen from India by cunning missionaries :)))

Anyway the point is, this kind of ridiculous thinking has a twisted advantage because it sort of encourages, or at the very least, doesn't discourage Hindu folk from pursuing science.

Islam on the other hand seems to discourage science. I've seen threads where some practicing Muslims try to reconcile the Quran with modern scientific findings - a bit like Indian Hindus claiming flying was invented by Indians or that nuclear fission and fusion was understood and used by ancient Indians. But for the most part, all evidence from Islamic nations points to a connection between religion and a lack of interest in Science.

I read once how many early scientific contributions came from regions that are now Islamic. And how these contributions dropped and tailed off as religion in these regions became stronger.

So it would seem that what the Islamic world is going through now is similar to what the West went through under Christianity. They were able to find people willing to battle the faith and win. Maybe the same will happen in Islamic countries even though it might seem a herculean task right now.
 
.Religious extremism has destroyed the social fabric of Pakistan, and our lack of progress in science and technology is a major consequence.

Furthermore, appointing someone like Fawad Chaudhry as the man to lead Science and Technology in “Naya Pakistan” shows where our priorities lie.

We are obsessed with India and suffer from inferiority complex. We take pride in their failures which often tower above our successes. That doesn’t help either.

Secular nations have made progress in Science, but The Mullahs of Iran have made plenty of progress in Science and Tech as well.

Secular Mexico, and Congo, and Cambodia have not made much progress in science, the same as religious countries like Pakistan.

So it seems there are other reasons besides from religion behind the failure.
 
It's not only Pakistan, but most Muslims Nations in the World are lagging in Scientific technology and advancements. The Arab Nations have a lot of Wealth but they are hardly investing any of their wealth in Scientific Research.

Who do Pakistanis look upto? The Mughal Invaders and other Muslim kings of the past, hardly known for any scientific achievements.

Coupled that with Army Worshipping culture in Pakistan, the self appointed saviours of Ummah who will liberate Kashmir from India . There is no room for scientific progress in such a hostile atmosphere.

Majority of Mughals were born and bred in the subcontinent. Neither Muslims nor liberal Hindus see them as invaders. At best you can say the first emperor was foreign.

Pakistan had more scientific progress under Army rule, than under democratic rule. In particular the Ayub Khan era.
 
None of the choices mentioned by the OP for the poll, there is only one factor holding Pakistan back: Religion, and Religion will see to it that Pakistan will always end up being last in the crowd.. Lets be fair, both Indians and Pakistanis are from the same DNA, so it is not the talent issue...

All humans are from the same DNA. You have the same DNA as someone from Congo, and Zimbabwe.
 
Religion has always been in conflict with science. The West was able to catapult modern science forward despite religion. Some of their pioneers were in constant battle with or suffered under the Church. But the rest who followed were able to break free of the shackles of the Church because of the efforts over hundreds of years by legends like Galileo.

India is not some scientific thinking legendary place as some of my brethren would like to strut and claim. A lot of our cultural practices are based on superstitions and pseudo science. And we've also achieved hardly anything on our own. But there are also practices that have been entwined with religion (Hinduism) that are based on basic science and probably came into being over hundreds of years of observation and practice. And for some reason, nothing in Hinduism forbids thinking scientifically. There are stupid practices that have sprouted alongside, but there was space for scientific practices if someone with brains was around and decided to use it. Also, modern Hindus like to believe that science was created and flourished in India as part of Hinduism. In fact, all of Western science was imported or stolen from India by cunning missionaries :)))

Anyway the point is, this kind of ridiculous thinking has a twisted advantage because it sort of encourages, or at the very least, doesn't discourage Hindu folk from pursuing science.

Islam on the other hand seems to discourage science. I've seen threads where some practicing Muslims try to reconcile the Quran with modern scientific findings - a bit like Indian Hindus claiming flying was invented by Indians or that nuclear fission and fusion was understood and used by ancient Indians. But for the most part, all evidence from Islamic nations points to a connection between religion and a lack of interest in Science.

I read once how many early scientific contributions came from regions that are now Islamic. And how these contributions dropped and tailed off as religion in these regions became stronger.

So it would seem that what the Islamic world is going through now is similar to what the West went through under Christianity. They were able to find people willing to battle the faith and win. Maybe the same will happen in Islamic countries even though it might seem a herculean task right now.

Politics and science go hand in hand. The Islamic Golden Age started because the Abbassid Caliphs promoted science and the translation of old scientific texts from Greek, Sanskrit, Farsi and Armenian to Arabic.

During the Italian Renaissance, it was rich banking families like the Medicis and rulers like Cesare Borgia who promoted science and technology. Scientists and engineers like Galileo Galilei, Copernicus and Leonardo da Vinci(an engineer, not a scientist) relied on patronage. Without rich patrons, none of them would've pursued science or engineering.

Although religion is a factor, i think politics is the main factor as to why there is no "culture of science and technology" in Pakistan.
 
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Last four chairmen of SUPARCO (2001-2019) are Major Generals with no academic background of Space whatsoever.

- Major General Raza Hussain, B.S Electrical Engineering
- Major General Ahmed Bilal, M.S Computer Engineering
- Major General Qaiser Anees, B.S Mechanical Engineering
- Major General Amir Nadeem, B.S Aeronautical Engineering
 
Many people have said religion and I won't disagree but if you look at our other neighbor, Iran, they are a much more religious country than Pakistan, but far ahead in Technology and Science.

I believe the root cause lies in our culture, arts and media. We don't promote scientific thinking anywhere in our media, whether it be movies, TV shows or news channels. If you look at what's on tv these days it's all about shaadi or religion, and nothing that would inspire someome to take up science or tech.

Our people down play the impact arts and culture have on society, but let me tell you in the US so many technology discoveries were inspired by Star Trek, Star Wars and other iconic movies and shows that presented what the next gen of tech could look like.
 
Last four chairmen of SUPARCO (2001-2019) are Major Generals with no academic background of Space whatsoever.

- Major General Raza Hussain, B.S Electrical Engineering
- Major General Ahmed Bilal, M.S Computer Engineering
- Major General Qaiser Anees, B.S Mechanical Engineering
- Major General Amir Nadeem, B.S Aeronautical Engineering

How is having a degree in Aeronautical Engineering not good enough to be a chairman of a space agency?
 
Last four chairmen of SUPARCO (2001-2019) are Major Generals with no academic background of Space whatsoever.

- Major General Raza Hussain, B.S Electrical Engineering
- Major General Ahmed Bilal, M.S Computer Engineering
- Major General Qaiser Anees, B.S Mechanical Engineering
- Major General Amir Nadeem, B.S Aeronautical Engineering

Mechanical engineering is very closely tied to space

Aeronautical engineering is about space itself.

How did you come up with that conclusion?
 
.Religious extremism has destroyed the social fabric of Pakistan, and our lack of progress in science and technology is a major consequence.

Furthermore, appointing someone like Fawad Chaudhry as the man to lead Science and Technology in “Naya Pakistan” shows where our priorities lie.

We are obsessed with India and suffer from inferiority complex. We take pride in their failures which often tower above our successes. That doesn’t help either.

I see your first point is to blame religion. Religion hasn’t stopped anyone. I would say it is the people in Pakistan who should be blamed, could be a cultural thing.

If you look at the history muslim scientists have achieved alot and they practised both religion and made success on other fields at same time.

To easy to critisize religion. You may blame people who have misguided others in the name of Islam/religion but Islam as religion, if practised properly has shown big things can be achieved.
 
Religion has always been in conflict with science. The West was able to catapult modern science forward despite religion. Some of their pioneers were in constant battle with or suffered under the Church. But the rest who followed were able to break free of the shackles of the Church because of the efforts over hundreds of years by legends like Galileo.

India is not some scientific thinking legendary place as some of my brethren would like to strut and claim. A lot of our cultural practices are based on superstitions and pseudo science. And we've also achieved hardly anything on our own. But there are also practices that have been entwined with religion (Hinduism) that are based on basic science and probably came into being over hundreds of years of observation and practice. And for some reason, nothing in Hinduism forbids thinking scientifically. There are stupid practices that have sprouted alongside, but there was space for scientific practices if someone with brains was around and decided to use it. Also, modern Hindus like to believe that science was created and flourished in India as part of Hinduism. In fact, all of Western science was imported or stolen from India by cunning missionaries :)))

Anyway the point is, this kind of ridiculous thinking has a twisted advantage because it sort of encourages, or at the very least, doesn't discourage Hindu folk from pursuing science.

Islam on the other hand seems to discourage science. I've seen threads where some practicing Muslims try to reconcile the Quran with modern scientific findings - a bit like Indian Hindus claiming flying was invented by Indians or that nuclear fission and fusion was understood and used by ancient Indians. But for the most part, all evidence from Islamic nations points to a connection between religion and a lack of interest in Science.

I read once how many early scientific contributions came from regions that are now Islamic. And how these contributions dropped and tailed off as religion in these regions became stronger.

So it would seem that what the Islamic world is going through now is similar to what the West went through under Christianity. They were able to find people willing to battle the faith and win. Maybe the same will happen in Islamic countries even though it might seem a herculean task right now.

So long post full of ignorance. Read about history and look at the contributions of muslim scientists.
 
Politics and science go hand in hand. The Islamic Golden Age started because the Abbassid Caliphs promoted science and the translation of old scientific texts from Greek, Sanskrit, Farsi and Armenian to Arabic.

During the Italian Renaissance, it was rich banking families like the Medicis and rulers like Cesare Borgia who promoted science and technology. Scientists and engineers like Galileo Galilei, Copernicus and Leonardo da Vinci(an engineer, not a scientist) relied on patronage. Without rich patrons, none of them would've pursued science or engineering.

Although religion is a factor, i think politics is the main factor as to why there is no "culture of science and technology" in Pakistan.

Your point about patronage especially by a ruling clan is significant as was the case with the Caliphs. It's interesting because there was obviously an aspect of Islam that encouraged education and philosophy (which would lead to questioning) and so in a way, they were following what their religion dictated.

But the decline and tailing off happened, and I might be wrong, but there doesn't appear to have been any significant scientific contributions in the last 700 or 800 years from the Islamic world. The main point here is not about which part of the world was better but more about how growth of a religion appears significantly related in an inverse way to scientific progress. To call it all political (decline of certain pro-scientific dynasties) might not be accurate. There has to be a more significant connection between the rise of Sunni Islam and the gradual decline in pursuit of scientific thought.

So long post full of ignorance. Read about history and look at the contributions of muslim scientists.

Maybe you can shed some light.
 
So long post full of ignorance. Read about history and look at the contributions of muslim scientists.

I think to understand your point one must read up about Mutazilites vs asharites.

It’s surprising how many Muslims make the claim about the Islamic golden age without knowing about this.

It certainly indicates the role religion played but it’s not the narrative that is uttered amongst the Ummah.
 
Pakistanis who are doing bhangra over India’s lunar landing failure are deluded.

The first step to success is to attempt or try and India has succeeded in that aspect. Pakistanis should be the last people to giggle at India.

India is blessed to have brilliant scientists and engineers and it also has the resources and funds to attempt lunar landing.

Our country is being overrun by flies, and sewage water is inundating streets and homes alike. We do not have the brains nor the resources to get rid of sewage and flies and we laugh at India.
 
Pakistanis who are doing bhangra over India’s lunar l
anding failure are deluded.

The first step to success is to attempt or try and India has succeeded in that aspect. Pakistanis should be the last people to giggle at India.

India is blessed to have brilliant scientists and engineers and it also has the resources and funds to attempt lunar landing.

Our country is being overrun by flies, and sewage water is inundating streets and homes alike. We do not have the brains nor the resources to get rid of sewage and flies and we laugh at India.

Well, India has flies, sewage and abject poverty too. Pakistan, as a small country should try to model itself after other successful small countries in Asia like Singapore, malaysia, Taiwan.

Pakistan has a dual problem. One track obsession with India and everything Indian and irrational hatred for all things Indian/hindu. While India deals with pakistan it is also accomplishing a lot of other things. Second, Pakistan needs to move on past Kashmir. You are never going to get anywhere as a country if you have this second one track obsession. While India deals with Kashmir, it is also accomplishing lot of other things.

The singular obsession is your downfall.
 
I think the issue is not religion. I don't know why some people blame religion.

Issue is priority. Science and technology are probably not higher priorities and hence no real progress happens. It is not just Pakistan but also other countries.
 
I think the issue is not religion. I don't know why some people blame religion.

Issue is priority. Science and technology are probably not higher priorities and hence no real progress happens. It is not just Pakistan but also other countries.

The thing is that progress is happening but just because it is not on a large scale yet because seem to think we're not developing
 
PPP and PML N, fake back accounts scandal
 
Your point about patronage especially by a ruling clan is significant as was the case with the Caliphs. It's interesting because there was obviously an aspect of Islam that encouraged education and philosophy (which would lead to questioning) and so in a way, they were following what their religion dictated.

But the decline and tailing off happened, and I might be wrong, but there doesn't appear to have been any significant scientific contributions in the last 700 or 800 years from the Islamic world. The main point here is not about which part of the world was better but more about how growth of a religion appears significantly related in an inverse way to scientific progress. To call it all political (decline of certain pro-scientific dynasties) might not be accurate. There has to be a more significant connection between the rise of Sunni Islam and the gradual decline in pursuit of scientific thought.

It was the rise of the traditionalist and anti-rationalist doctrine called Ash’arism school of Sunni Islam and the decline of the more pro-science and pro-rationalism Islamic doctrine Mu’tazilism that caused the decline of the Islamic Golden Age.

Mu’tazilists believed that the Qur’an most be interpreted through reason whereas the Ash’aris believe that the Qur’an is unchallengable and therefore we can’t try to interpret it through reason.

Early on, Caliphs like Al-Mansour and Al-Mamun undermined the traditionalists and actively sponsored Mu’tazilism. But by the 14th century, most Mu’tazilites were being marginalized and persecuted and because most Islamic scientists and inventors were Mu’tazilites, we haven’t seen any major scientific discovery coming out of the Islamic world since the 1400s.

There was a modest rebirth of the Islamic world taking up science in the 19th century but that too faded away eventually.
 
I see your first point is to blame religion. Religion hasn’t stopped anyone. I would say it is the people in Pakistan who should be blamed, could be a cultural thing.

If you look at the history muslim scientists have achieved alot and they practised both religion and made success on other fields at same time.

To easy to critisize religion. You may blame people who have misguided others in the name of Islam/religion but Islam as religion, if practised properly has shown big things can be achieved.

You are ignorant of history.

The Islamic Golden Age was inspired by the Mutazilahs who did not subscribe to orthodox beliefs. They did encouraged rational thinking and opposed the idea that the Quran was God’s creation.

Since they asked questions and tried to use logical deductions, they were not held back by religion and made scientific breakthroughs.

Eventually, they were outnumbered and thus out-powered by the Ashari who subscribed to orthodox belief of not questioning nothing and encouraging blind faith.

Mutazilahs’ decline was accelerated by the Caliph Al-Mutawakkil who was unsurprisingly notorious for his brutal treatment of the non-Muslims.

The triumph of the Asharis over the Mutazilahs is the reason why Muslims have become lousy at science, and why we are laughing at India for something that we cannot even dream of achieving.
 
Last four chairmen of SUPARCO (2001-2019) are Major Generals with no academic background of Space whatsoever.

- Major General Raza Hussain, B.S Electrical Engineering
- Major General Ahmed Bilal, M.S Computer Engineering
- Major General Qaiser Anees, B.S Mechanical Engineering
- Major General Amir Nadeem, B.S Aeronautical Engineering

These can actually be a useful stepping stone into the space research field as the fundamentals will still come from engineering and physics.
 
.Religious extremism has destroyed the social fabric of Pakistan, and our lack of progress in science and technology is a major consequence.

Furthermore, appointing someone like Fawad Chaudhry as the man to lead Science and Technology in “Naya Pakistan” shows where our priorities lie.

We are obsessed with India and suffer from inferiority complex. We take pride in their failures which often tower above our successes. That doesn’t help either.

I have never seen you given constructive criticism, it has always revolved around point scoring and how to put down PTI and Imran khan.

And also around Trolling.
 
You are ignorant of history.

The Islamic Golden Age was inspired by the Mutazilahs who did not subscribe to orthodox beliefs. They did encouraged rational thinking and opposed the idea that the Quran was God’s creation.

Since they asked questions and tried to use logical deductions, they were not held back by religion and made scientific breakthroughs.

Eventually, they were outnumbered and thus out-powered by the Ashari who subscribed to orthodox belief of not questioning nothing and encouraging blind faith.

Mutazilahs’ decline was accelerated by the Caliph Al-Mutawakkil who was unsurprisingly notorious for his brutal treatment of the non-Muslims.

The triumph of the Asharis over the Mutazilahs is the reason why Muslims have become lousy at science, and why we are laughing at India for something that we cannot even dream of achieving.

bro, i really admire your knowledge!

Your posts really does makes a person do research on different stuff.

Good info, and thanks. Will be searching on all this what you have wrote.

I remember you once even mentioned how in Judaism Rabbis focus on attaining knowledge and doing well in life which plays a big factor in the success of jewish people.
 
I think its down to commitment and efforts.

Also, I feel there is alot less of specialization. If your some dur ke rishtedar ki beti became a specialist qualified soctor, you'll have to be one too no matter if you have skills for it or not.

You excel only when you have interest or skills/ability as these two variables determine aptitude of an individual in an area.

There is no harm even in doing what you like to do and digging deep into it so much that you are able to differentiate yourself.

Problem is, our society does not believe in differentiation. If you're good at making book cover pages, then design and produce them in such an innovative and different way that no one else can, we do not look upto principles or the rationales as base to grow ideas and craft something, we simply duplicate.
 
70's Pakistan was fighting a war depending who do you ask against primary or secondary super power.

In 90's, after Afghan war, Pakistan was placed under sanctions for trying to pursue Nuclear tech up until after September 11.

From late 80's up until recently Pakistan had the most corrupt politicians who were busy doing optical politics by building bridges instead of building school, university and hospitals.

Then september 11 happened.

Pakistan has never recovered since Afghan war.

Science and technology needs money.

One can blame mass population and look down upon them but you can't blame them while you support corrupt politicians.
 
You are ignorant of history.

The Islamic Golden Age was inspired by the Mutazilahs who did not subscribe to orthodox beliefs. They did encouraged rational thinking and opposed the idea that the Quran was God’s creation.

Since they asked questions and tried to use logical deductions, they were not held back by religion and made scientific breakthroughs.

Eventually, they were outnumbered and thus out-powered by the Ashari who subscribed to orthodox belief of not questioning nothing and encouraging blind faith.

Mutazilahs’ decline was accelerated by the Caliph Al-Mutawakkil who was unsurprisingly notorious for his brutal treatment of the non-Muslims.

The triumph of the Asharis over the Mutazilahs is the reason why Muslims have become lousy at science, and why we are laughing at India for something that we cannot even dream of achieving.

Now that was constructive criticism and comparison and I doubt anyone can refute it.
 
Technology is something Indians have excelled in more compared to other South Asian nations. I don't know the exact reason but it could be because they have higher number of people and more resources.

Also, India never had to deal with any major war or civil war for a while. Pakistan had to deal with many nonsense (Balochistan separatists, Taliban, war on terror etc.).
 
Technology is something Indians have excelled in more compared to other South Asian nations. I don't know the exact reason but it could be because they have higher number of people and more resources.

Also, India never had to deal with any major war or civil war for a while. Pakistan had to deal with many nonsense (Balochistan separatists, Taliban, war on terror etc.).

Have you ever read/researched in to anything you comment on?

Even for someone so young.
 
What factual content did you right?

Considering you’ve written factual with relation to your post.

This was what I wrote --> "Technology is something Indians have excelled in more compared to other South Asian nations. I don't know the exact reason but it could be because they have higher number of people and more resources.

Also, India never had to deal with any major war or civil war for a while. Pakistan had to deal with many nonsense (Balochistan separatists, Taliban, war on terror etc.)."


Was there anything non-factual there? Please highlight it.
 
This was what I wrote --> "Technology is something Indians have excelled in more compared to other South Asian nations. I don't know the exact reason but it could be because they have higher number of people and more resources.

Also, India never had to deal with any major war or civil war for a while. Pakistan had to deal with many nonsense (Balochistan separatists, Taliban, war on terror etc.)."


Was there anything non-factual there? Please highlight it.

The whole post should be highlighted.

Firstly, a stated opinion doesn’t correlate to fact.

With all those excuses, you haven’t shown a causative link to any.

Is this what you consider factual?
 
Last four chairmen of SUPARCO (2001-2019) are Major Generals with no academic background of Space whatsoever.

- Major General Raza Hussain, B.S Electrical Engineering
- Major General Ahmed Bilal, M.S Computer Engineering
- Major General Qaiser Anees, B.S Mechanical Engineering
- Major General Amir Nadeem, B.S Aeronautical Engineering

Oh really how did you jump to that conclusion?

Appalling logic once again.
 
Not read all the thread but get the jist that people blaming religion and some so called sort of obsession with India. Both suggestions ridiculously untrue. Pakistan have always supported Kashmir cause and keep the country and borders safe from aggression. Fair enough defence of Pakistan has been a priority.

Pakistani and Kashmiri people surely have lots of talent.

However, can’t believe people missing the obvious reason: corruption corruption corruption. From top to bottom most previous governments have been looting the country. They haven’t spent or invested as they should have on the development of the country, education, research, or on institutions or provided funding where needed. Instead we have Pak wealth hidden in foreign countries like Switzerland. Oh, and btw the corruption did start at the top but rubbed over and become part of normal society. Rishwat, bribery, denistic politics, money laundering, nepotism etc.
 
So if their isn’t any money for investing and prioritising science, education and technology then how are Pakistan going to make advancements in this field? Or in any other field.
 
Well, India has flies, sewage and abject poverty too. Pakistan, as a small country should try to model itself after other successful small countries in Asia like Singapore, malaysia, Taiwan.

Pakistan has a dual problem. One track obsession with India and everything Indian and irrational hatred for all things Indian/hindu. While India deals with pakistan it is also accomplishing a lot of other things. Second, Pakistan needs to move on past Kashmir. You are never going to get anywhere as a country if you have this second one track obsession. While India deals with Kashmir, it is also accomplishing lot of other things.

The singular obsession is your downfall.

Pakistan has no obsession with India whatsoever. Definitely not hatred as such. Once India give us Kashmiris our rights and freedom then Pakistan will in your words move on. Once India stops the hatred mob lynchings, abuse and torture of Muslims and Kashmiris then maybe Pakistan will give India and Indians more respect.


Kashmiri only belongs to the people of Kashmir and no other country. If India want peace sincerely then let Kashmiris decide their own future in a referendum and resolve this matter once and for all.

Oh another thing, India is only good at blaming Pakistan and using the terrorist card when it’s actually their own army, government and even media. Retaliation, fighting for freedom and fighting back and defending against brutality of armed Zinfian occupation is definitely not terrorism. As was not terrorism when Indians apart from Gandhi took up violence to fight for freedom from the British Empire all them years ago,
 
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Pakistan has no obsession with India whatsoever. Definitely not hatred as such. Once India give us Kashmiris our rights and freedom then Pakistan will in your words move on. Once India stops the hatred mob lynchings, abuse and torture of Muslims and Kashmiris then maybe Pakistan will give India and Indians more respect.


Kashmiri only belongs to the people of Kashmir and no other country. If India want peace sincerely then let Kashmiris decide their own future in a referendum and resolve this matter once and for all.

Oh another thing, India is only good at blaming Pakistan and using the terrorist card when it’s actually their own army, government and even media. Retaliation, fighting for freedom and fighting back and defending against brutality of armed Zinfian occupation is definitely not terrorism. As was not terrorism when Indians apart from Gandhi took up violence to fight for freedom from the British Empire all them years ago,

You just made my point
 
bro, i really admire your knowledge!

Your posts really does makes a person do research on different stuff.

Good info, and thanks. Will be searching on all this what you have wrote.

I remember you once even mentioned how in Judaism Rabbis focus on attaining knowledge and doing well in life which plays a big factor in the success of jewish people.

Thank you. It is quite hysterical when people flaunt the success of the Islamic Golden Age without reading about its history.
 
It's more to do with education than religion. Religion is just an excuse that people use these days to blame for all the problems, its an easy escape. Our past leech governments have barely emphasized on investing in education when they were too busy looting our country. Hopefully with Imran in the office, stepping stones will be set up in the education sector and we will see positive results in the future.
 
It's more to do with education than religion. Religion is just an excuse that people use these days to blame for all the problems, its an easy escape. Our past leech governments have barely emphasized on investing in education when they were too busy looting our country. Hopefully with Imran in the office, stepping stones will be set up in the education sector and we will see positive results in the future.

thats because you think religion means just praying and thats it.

Religion is a social institution and it shapes the society. Here manners are taught to kids by invoking religious context to it.

A kid in the west is taught to place your hand on your mouth when you are yawning as its bad manners
A kid in Pakistan is taught to place your hand on the mouth when yawning as the Shaitaan will enter you.

The concept being taught is manners, but look at the way its being approached. One is using logical way, the other is not a rational way as the kid is not learning matters but just learning that shaitaan shouldn't enter him.

This is a small example.
 
Oh really how did you jump to that conclusion?

Appalling logic once again.

He is correct. The ISRO Chairman has a doctorate in space engineering, while the Chairman of SUPARCO, Pakistan’s sorry excuse of a Space program, is (of course) a Major General.
 
Dr Atta: India’s moon mission wake-up call for Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Eminent scientist and former minister for science and technology Dr Atta-ur-Rehman said India’s moon mission was a wake-up call for Pakistan, requiring it to follow suit.

Speaking to Geo’s 'Naya Pakistan' anchor Shahzad Iqbal on Saturday, he said, “The Indian moon mission cannot be termed a failure, as such tests by even big and technologically advanced countries also fail. He said failures and successes are part of such missions but those who stick to them succeed at last. “Half of such missions undertaken by even the most advanced and developed countries fail and only half succeed.”

Related: Fawad mocks India for failure of Chandrayaan-2 moon mission

Rehman said the impression that such missions involved a lot of money is not the right approach, as such endeavours also have their impact on defence and industries. “Hindustan is doing the right job and we should follow it to reach the Moon and the Mars.

More: India is still proud, says Modi

Our attempt to reach the Moon should not be driven by our ego to be on an equal footing with India, but pursuing such missions will improve many technologies which will strengthen our defence and industries.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/5...GvOXRihguCoTXBnH5wf_XQhTx15RpK96s_bVCPJ678vco
 
ISLAMABAD: Eminent scientist and former minister for science and technology Dr Atta-ur-Rehman said IndiaÂ’s moon mission was a wake-up call for Pakistan, requiring it to follow suit.

Speaking to Geo’s 'Naya Pakistan' anchor Shahzad Iqbal on Saturday, he said, “The Indian moon mission cannot be termed a failure, as such tests by even big and technologically advanced countries also fail. He said failures and successes are part of such missions but those who stick to them succeed at last. “Half of such missions undertaken by even the most advanced and developed countries fail and only half succeed.”

Related: Fawad mocks India for failure of Chandrayaan-2 moon mission

Rehman said the impression that such missions involved a lot of money is not the right approach, as such endeavours also have their impact on defence and industries. “Hindustan is doing the right job and we should follow it to reach the Moon and the Mars.

More: India is still proud, says Modi

Our attempt to reach the Moon should not be driven by our ego to be on an equal footing with India, but pursuing such missions will improve many technologies which will strengthen our defence and industries.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/5...GvOXRihguCoTXBnH5wf_XQhTx15RpK96s_bVCPJ678vco

It’s great to see such enthusiasm for space science in third world countries, but reality is countries like US only explored space after they had established their country with successful economy and industry, and to a large extent where basic needs of people had been addressed such as housing, education, employment, access to clean water, toilets and sewage disposal to mention a few.

After that a country with a successful economy and cash surplus to their immediate needs can afford to invest in other areas such as research and innovation in science and technology, and space exploration to see what lies beyond the world.

But then you come on to third world countries like Pakistan who sadly are almost economically bankrupt and relying on foreign loans and aid to survive, and while India has a stronger economy today but they also have poverty, illiteracy and unemployment on a massive scale. A large section of the population in both countries do not have access to clean water to drink or even clean air to breathe such is the level of air pollution in major cities as stats will prove. And letÂ’s not even go into the detail of toilets, sanitation and waste/sewage disposal systems - just look at some of the recent photos of Karachi sanitation problems in the news.

Surely in the context of all of these ground ( yes pun intended) realities, exploring space, landing on the moon and Mars are luxuries these countries can ill afford and the same resources should be invested on addressing basic needs of people?

In fact why not set up a research lab to use the latest cutting edge science and technology to help clean up the waste on the streets of Karachi and modernise the sewage system?
 
It’s great to see such enthusiasm for space science in third world countries, but reality is countries like US only explored space after they had established their country with successful economy and industry, and to a large extent where basic needs of people had been addressed such as housing, education, employment, access to clean water, toilets and sewage disposal to mention a few.

After that a country with a successful economy and cash surplus to their immediate needs can afford to invest in other areas such as research and innovation in science and technology, and space exploration to see what lies beyond the world.

But then you come on to third world countries like Pakistan who sadly are almost economically bankrupt and relying on foreign loans and aid to survive, and while India has a stronger economy today but they also have poverty, illiteracy and unemployment on a massive scale. A large section of the population in both countries do not have access to clean water to drink or even clean air to breathe such is the level of air pollution in major cities as stats will prove. And let’s not even go into the detail of toilets, sanitation and waste/sewage disposal systems - just look at some of the recent photos of Karachi sanitation problems in the news.

Surely in the context of all of these ground ( yes pun intended) realities, exploring space, landing on the moon and Mars are luxuries these countries can ill afford and the same resources should be invested on addressing basic needs of people?

In fact why not set up a research lab to use the latest cutting edge science and technology to help clean up the waste on the streets of Karachi and modernise the sewage system?


as others have said Indias space agency is a profitable venture for the govt as it launches Satellites for many countries and earns invaluable forex besides providing employment for 1000s
 
I think its just due to being lazy, rather than being religious. If you have spent your fair share of time in Pakistan you'll see that the young people aren't into religion, they are just plain lazy.

School drop out rate is quite high, and education is still used as a marriage tool rather than career hence lack of interest in developing education as research opportunities. Of course, this is not true for all institutes as clearly the textile,F&B and IT industries are picking up.

But we are slow people, always have been. And we rely on short-cuts. And educational incentives are not encouraged enough. Education budgets need to be increased, the youth needs to be given a direction to follow.
 
I think its just due to being lazy, rather than being religious. If you have spent your fair share of time in Pakistan you'll see that the young people aren't into religion, they are just plain lazy.

School drop out rate is quite high, and education is still used as a marriage tool rather than career hence lack of interest in developing education as research opportunities. Of course, this is not true for all institutes as clearly the textile,F&B and IT industries are picking up.

But we are slow people, always have been. And we rely on short-cuts. And educational incentives are not encouraged enough. Education budgets need to be increased, the youth needs to be given a direction to follow.

Another thing that i’ve noticed is that most Pakistani parents want their kids to become either engineers or doctors. Not many Pakistanis aspire to become mathematicians, physicists etc.
 
In my opinion, the whole Pakistani mentality is rotten when it comes to life goals. Very few people aspire to achieve much beyond getting a stable 9-5 job, getting married, and having kids. Even if someone aspires to achieve something outside the ordinary, they are usually shot down by people around them.

Then there is also the problem of religious fanaticism. From observation, a huge amount of Pakistanis tend to be more impressed with an existing scientific truth being tenuously proven in the Quran, and less impressed by a new scientific breakthrough.
 
Another thing that i’ve noticed is that most Pakistani parents want their kids to become either engineers or doctors. Not many Pakistanis aspire to become mathematicians, physicists etc.
It is due to lack of the imagination of their thinking. Good male engineers and female doctors get good rishtas perhaps. Fact of the matter is that education is not taken seriously to form a career. Rather a tool for please society.
 
He is correct. The ISRO Chairman has a doctorate in space engineering, while the Chairman of SUPARCO, Pakistan’s sorry excuse of a Space program, is (of course) a Major General.

No he isn't because if you go back to his post he claimed they the last four chairman of the SUPARCO have "no academic background of Space", but as [MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION] mentioned the fundamentals of their degrees come from maths and physics.

I agree they are not sufficiently qualified but to claim they have no academic background of space is just wrong.
 
In my opinion, the whole Pakistani mentality is rotten when it comes to life goals. Very few people aspire to achieve much beyond getting a stable 9-5 job, getting married, and having kids. Even if someone aspires to achieve something outside the ordinary, they are usually shot down by people around them.

Then there is also the problem of religious fanaticism. From observation, a huge amount of Pakistanis tend to be more impressed with an existing scientific truth being tenuously proven in the Quran, and less impressed by a new scientific breakthrough.

I think you've nailed it.

I'd also add;

1) The educated move abroad. Given the state of Pakistan, they won't be likely to return. Living conditions are poor at best.

2) With corruption/briber, people can buy their way into positions. So some of the more educated will miss out on bigger opportunities.
 
You are ignorant of history.

The Islamic Golden Age was inspired by the Mutazilahs who did not subscribe to orthodox beliefs. They did encouraged rational thinking and opposed the idea that the Quran was God’s creation.

Since they asked questions and tried to use logical deductions, they were not held back by religion and made scientific breakthroughs.

Eventually, they were outnumbered and thus out-powered by the Ashari who subscribed to orthodox belief of not questioning nothing and encouraging blind faith.

Mutazilahs’ decline was accelerated by the Caliph Al-Mutawakkil who was unsurprisingly notorious for his brutal treatment of the non-Muslims.

The triumph of the Asharis over the Mutazilahs is the reason why Muslims have become lousy at science, and why we are laughing at India for something that we cannot even dream of achieving.

Why can't orthodox Muslims use logical deductions, experiment and ask questions?

As you've insinuated they can't, please cite references from Islamic sources to back up your claims.

I can debunk your statement very simply, so let me inform you Prophet Muhammad (SAW) mentioned:

"‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim"
"Seek knowledge even as far as China" (when China was centre of Knowledge during his time)

Now I know you don't believe in Hadith because you once also claimed "there is no Imam Mahdi", so you will probably find a way to refute this as well to suit your agenda.

Please be a bit more impartial with your views.
 
Why can't orthodox Muslims use logical deductions, experiment and ask questions?

As you've insinuated they can't, please cite references from Islamic sources to back up your claims.

I can debunk your statement very simply, so let me inform you Prophet Muhammad (SAW) mentioned:

"‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim"
"Seek knowledge even as far as China" (when China was centre of Knowledge during his time)

Now I know you don't believe in Hadith because you once also claimed "there is no Imam Mahdi", so you will probably find a way to refute this as well to suit your agenda.

Please be a bit more impartial with your views.


To make your I think you should give context. You know how the Islamaphobes take everything out of context, so I wouldn’t want you to do the same.

The context would be what he meant by knowledge and the context of which he suggested you go as far as China.
 
No he isn't because if you go back to his post he claimed they the last four chairman of the SUPARCO have "no academic background of Space", but as [MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION] mentioned the fundamentals of their degrees come from maths and physics.

I agree they are not sufficiently qualified but to claim they have no academic background of space is just wrong.

A look at the recent chairmen of SUPARCO reveals two fundamental problems: (1) they are from the military and (2) they are under-qualified.

People may not like this, but the fact is that in Pakistan, the vast majority of the people who end up joining the military are either duds or have very unimpressive academic records. High-achievers rarely join Pakistan Army even if they are from a military family, which is usually not the case because of mediocre genes.

You need the most brilliant minds in the country to work on your space program, and you won’t find these minds in the military.

Secondly, on top of having substandard academic records, they are also under-qualified. They have bachelor’s degree (except one, who has Master’s in Computer Science) in Aeronautical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science.

It is important to note that they joined the military after their intermediate (most probably with average grades) and then studied these degrees on military quota, which means that they probably wouldn’t have been able to study these degrees in the first place if it wasn’t for the military.

Bachelor’s or Master’s in Mechanical Engineering or Computer Science are completely inedequate qualifications. Having a background in maths and physics is the bare minimum as well, just like having a background in Biology is for becoming a doctor.

To boost SUPARCO, Pakistan’s needs to get it out of the clutches of the military and ensure that the minimum required qualification for its chairman should be a Master’s, if not a PhD in Astrophysics.

You have to go all the way back to 2001 for a properly qualified chairman of SUPARCO, i.e. Dr. Abdul Majid. It is not surprising that SUPARCO made significant progress in his tenure.
 
Why can't orthodox Muslims use logical deductions, experiment and ask questions?

As you've insinuated they can't, please cite references from Islamic sources to back up your claims.

I can debunk your statement very simply, so let me inform you Prophet Muhammad (SAW) mentioned:

"‘Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim"
"Seek knowledge even as far as China" (when China was centre of Knowledge during his time)

Now I know you don't believe in Hadith because you once also claimed "there is no Imam Mahdi", so you will probably find a way to refute this as well to suit your agenda.

Please be a bit more impartial with your views.

The problem with the orthodox approach is that you are limited by the boundaries of Islam, and there is very little scope for scientific research and development if you confine yourself with religious boundaries. The reason why the Mutazilahs were successful was because they had no problem in rejecting the aspects of religion that they couldn’t reconcile with scientific discoveries.

Orthodox Muslims cannot do that because they perceive it as meddling with God’s business. They are enslaved to the beliefs that have been imposed on them because they do not want to accept something that defies religion. For example, in spite of the vast evidence of evolution, they still believe that it is not a fact because it is not backed by their religious believes.

You cannot be an orthodox Muslim if you trust science. You have to make a compromise at some point, and whether that compromise is science-oriented or religion-oriented determines whether you are orthodox or unorthodox.
 
The answer is all of the above. Pakistan hasn't reached that evolutionary point yet. It depends on education, economy, scientific maturity and political vision. When your science and tech Minister compares spending money on space exploration to poverty alleviation you know there isn't political vision or scientific maturity. Education system should be strong enough to invent or atleast understand how things work. I don't think religion affects these things as the decisions like these are not made at lower levels. Neither do I think that madrassas are pulling away potential scientists from conventional education.
 
A look at the recent chairmen of SUPARCO reveals two fundamental problems: (1) they are from the military and (2) they are under-qualified.

People may not like this, but the fact is that in Pakistan, the vast majority of the people who end up joining the military are either duds or have very unimpressive academic records. High-achievers rarely join Pakistan Army even if they are from a military family, which is usually not the case because of mediocre genes.

You need the most brilliant minds in the country to work on your space program, and you won’t find these minds in the military.

Secondly, on top of having substandard academic records, they are also under-qualified. They have bachelor’s degree (except one, who has Master’s in Computer Science) in Aeronautical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science.

It is important to note that they joined the military after their intermediate (most probably with average grades) and then studied these degrees on military quota, which means that they probably wouldn’t have been able to study these degrees in the first place if it wasn’t for the military.

Bachelor’s or Master’s in Mechanical Engineering or Computer Science are completely inedequate qualifications. Having a background in maths and physics is the bare minimum as well, just like having a background in Biology is for becoming a doctor.

To boost SUPARCO, Pakistan’s needs to get it out of the clutches of the military and ensure that the minimum required qualification for its chairman should be a Master’s, if not a PhD in Astrophysics.

You have to go all the way back to 2001 for a properly qualified chairman of SUPARCO, i.e. Dr. Abdul Majid. It is not surprising that SUPARCO made significant progress in his tenure.


Chowkidaar Shri Mamoon Ji.... since you have done the usual and stepped out of your auqaat and claimed to have knowledge of things which you know nothing off, I'll take this opportunity to school you a little. So sit down son, school is in session.


Before I start, let me give a pre-cursor that I have a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering and Masters in Computer Engineering from two different universities both of which are in the top 40 in the world (Masters one is in top 20). So unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.


A spacecraft is a complex device and it needs a multifaceted approach, there isn't one field that teaches a student the ins and outs of spacecraft development and deployment. Look up the qualifications of NASA scientists and their degrees will range from computer science, electrical/mechanical engineering, physics, maths heck some even have non-technical background. Since you singled out Computer Science and Mechanical Engineering as two useless qualifications for a space scientist, I'll give you a brief understanding off how each contributes to the design and development.


Mechanical Engineers are taught the very minute basics of 3D modelling, manufacturing of machines and equipment with tight tolerances, thermo and fluid dynamics, heat transfer and stress etc. A mechanical engineer at NASA would be responsible for modelling out the structure of a spacecraft such that it can take the stresses, trials and tribulations of space travel. The design will be such that the body is as compact as possible and as light as possible but still able to carry all essential on-board equipment. The actual layout of onboard equipment will also be carried out by mechanical engineers. Then the amount of thrust and propulsion needed, amount of heat the surface of the craft can bare etc all fall under the ambit of requirements of mechanical engineer at NASA. The actual manufacturing of the parts and assemblies of a spacecraft will be overseen by mechanical engineers, manufacturing engineering is a subset of mechanical engineering, bet you didn't know that Mr. Expert.


Now coming to Computer Science, this is an easy one and does not need a long explanation. A spacecraft has thousands, no millions of line of code on the dozens of onboard computers that are monitoring and controlling every single aspect of the spacecraft. Typically this programming is performed by people from a Computer Science background.

A space mission usually is split into multiple teams such as propulsion, structural, power, trajectory etc, each having a lead engineer/scientist and multiple people/teams under them. On top of these leads there is typically one person who might be a very senior engineer/scientist who acts as a project manager and does not necessarily need to know the nitty gritty of every tiny detail. He/she manages resources, timelines and mission goals/outcomes, and yes they can have mechanical engineering or computer science background.


So Shri Mamoon Ji, a medical doctor from Peshawar who chills on his easy government job, my advice to you is that do not talk about things you have very limited knowledge off.
 
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