What was wrong with Pakistan’s T20I side under Mickey Arthur & Sarfaraz Ahmed?

[Rana]

It seems like I wasn’t paying enough attention to the shortcomings of that side.

Can someone please list or explain the things that needed drastic improvement under Sarfaraz?

Why did Misbah think it necessary to change the side this much that he had placed two anchors up top and left us with a huge hole in the middle?

If we were so poor and required so much change, how then did we end up as no.1 and won so many series one after the other?

If the ICC rankings are wrong or don’t explain the full picture because we were playing the B sides, in bilateral series, does then the same formula apply on the rankings of our players right now?

Can the fans who love this formula of Babar/Saqlain/Rizwan/Muhammad Wasim and Ramiz Raja explain what was wrong with Mickey’s side?

 

[PakPremi]

I think everyone was fed up with Sarfraz poor form and some with his aggressive approach to his junior players. He for sure was much more shrewd as captain than Babar but the squad player were not necassarily any better under him bar Hafeez and Malik.
Rizwan is better keeper and batsman than Sarfraz, but Sarfraz can easily find place in the current squad with the recent improvement in his batting style.

 

[Major]

Sarfraz's team was fragile. Yes it was winning series but the team wasnt as good. Some of those wins came against weaker sides.

Plus, sarfraz was a non performing captain. After champions trophy the guy just let it go.

Rizwan was a ready player and couldnt enter in the playing 11 till sarfraz was there.

also, in limited overs, sarfraz is a very good captain. But he was a waste of space as a batter.

Misbah gave us a team that was scoring 180+ but with a different approach

I will say this again, you might think our issue is with batting, but trust me, batting is not the issue here.

Issue is captaincy. Babar doesnt utilize an extra bowler (6th) properly. He goes with a set qouta. If haris rauf is getting whopped for sixes, we all know babar is still gonna bowl his full qouta.

In odi cricket you can get away with such things but not in t20. In t20 you keep options in the bowling department and not go with set plans.

Batting is a non issue.

 

[Rana]

Sarfraz's team was fragile. Yes it was winning series but the team wasnt as good. Some of those wins came against weaker sides.

Plus, sarfraz was a non performing captain. After champions trophy the guy just let it go.

Rizwan was a ready player and couldnt enter in the playing 11 till sarfraz was there.

also, in limited overs, sarfraz is a very good captain. But he was a waste of space as a batter.

Misbah gave us a team that was scoring 180+ but with a different approach

I will say this again, you might think our issue is with batting, but trust me, batting is not the issue here.

Issue is captaincy. Babar doesnt utilize an extra bowler (6th) properly. He goes with a set qouta. If haris rauf is getting whopped for sixes, we all know babar is still gonna bowl his full qouta.

In odi cricket you can get away with such things but not in t20. In t20 you keep options in the bowling department and not go with set plans.

Batting is a non issue.

Non performing captain

What has the performing captain done with this team? Completely destroy it?

 

[shaz619]

Non performing captain

What has the performing captain done with this team? Completely destroy it?

Ended the 2 inchers streak and got back to winning ways against them

Smashes their rivals to bits and pieces

Reached the finals and semis of the last tournies

Looked the part to on the field rather then a sack of potatoes who run the local chippy

Are Pak fans dangar or what

What did those bums you like do in T20’s in comparison, do you want to see the team get spanked like jobbers again

 

[sweep_shot]

I think Mickey was a great coach and it was Pakistan's loss to lose him. Players were gelling well under him too.

Coaches after Mickey didn't really groom many players.

 

[Titan24]

Team was doing well in T20Is but, had nothing to show anything substantial in any other format. Add to it the struggling form of Sarfaraz for a considerable time across the formats.

While T20I format has an identity but, it is still looked at as an extension of LOIs and thus one will rarely see a separate setup specifically for T20Is. Other two formats were the main reason the duo had to go. Mickey did his job of planting the initial seeds of some good young players and thats in my opinion he specializes in. When you need to harvest the crop and results across the formats then you need another coach to take that role.

One can argue about the appointments post Mickey but, it was right time to let him go imo.

 

[muqarrab]

I think Mickey was a great coach and it was Pakistan's loss to lose him. Players were gelling well under him too.

Coaches after Mickey didn't really groom many players.

Micket went into WC 2019 and champions trophy 2017 whiteout knowing his best eleven, a good coach doesn't do that.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Sarfraz was a good tactician for LOIs in terms of using spinners in the middle order. He would choke the run rate in the middle overs well by quickly going through the overs, something Babar hasn't improved on.

Not just Sarfraz, Younis, Afridi, Misbah and Hafeez all were good in terms of middle overs.

That is one reason why Babar hasn't been able to properly utilize his spinners in Tests as well. He is not very adept at building the pressure. Changes the bowlers way too often.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Micket went into WC 2019 and champions trophy 2017 whiteout knowing his best eleven, a good coach doesn't do that.

People like to act as if the current management is the only biased one. Mickey was unapologetically biased. Guys like Junaid, Haris, Sami Aslam, Abid, Fawad, Shinwari and even Hafeez were consistently shunned.

Junaid got the worst end of the stick in the name of fitness. He was consistently kept out of the side without much reason.

Gets into the ODI side and helps Pak win an ODI against Australia in Australia after 12 years, gets dropped for Wahab Riaz in the next series opener against WI. Then gets back in the side and helps Pak win the ODI series, gets benched for Wahab for CT 17 opener without any reason. Junaid gets recalled and plays an important role in CT17 victory, finds himself out of the side in NZ again. Then is kept out of the side till the last game in Asia Cup, gets a four fer in his only match, gets dropped from WC19 squad for Hasnain.

 

[Markhor]

OP has a point. Look you can't overinterpret bilateral T20I results as opponents typically name experimental lineups whereas Pakistan treat them like life and death. However under Mickey we won 30 from 37 T20Is with a formula involving:

- An aggressive opener paired with a prolific anchor (Fakhar-Babar).
- Three very good players of spin in the middle order (Hafeez-Malik-Sarfraz).
- At least two if not three all-rounders ensuring balance and batting depth (Imad-Shadab with either Faheem or Nawaz).
- Three fast bowlers.

I think people underestimate later stage Hafeez as a T20 bat. Between Aug 2006-Sep 2016 his avg and SR was 22/115 but post-Sep 2016 it was 37.5/136.98 (call it 137).

Some players floated in and out, but generally that was our core over a two year period with wins over England, West Indies (home and away), World XI, Sri Lanka, New Zealand (home and away), Scotland, Australia, and a tri-series involving Australia and Zimbabwe.

We slipped near the end with defeats to South Africa and England which should've necessitated subtle tweaks and changes in individual personnel - not Misbah's ripping up of the entire template !

 

[Kianig89]

Because Micky was intelligent than Ramiz

 

[Ashmal]

We can't judge Sarfaraz's team, they only played bilateral T20s.

There was no T20 WC or Asia Cup(T20) in that period, so we never know how they'd have performed at the big stage.

But this team under Babar with all its flaws has already given some great results in multi-nation tournaments.

Yes they're struggling atm, but I don't think they are inferior to Sarfaraz's team.

 

[Rana]

We can't judge Sarfaraz's team, they only played bilateral T20s.

There was no T20 WC or Asia Cup(T20) in that period, so we never know how they'd have performed at the big stage.

But this team under Babar with all its flaws has already given some great results in multi-nation tournaments.

Yes they're struggling atm, but I don't think they are inferior to Sarfaraz's team.

Who are you trying to fool?

Yes we beat India comprehensively (subject to winning the toss). We were twice bailed out of jail by Asif Ali against NZ and AFG. Then Naseem Shah at Sharjah in the Asia cup only to be fully exposed against SL.

We have no strategy but to hope 2 players bat as long as possible if the score is around 180 max.

This is one of the poorest sides to represent T20i let alone Pakistan

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan need to bring back Mickey Arthur , he is not the best around , but the best Pakistan can afford.

 

[topspin]

Team was doing well in T20Is but, had nothing to show anything substantial in any other format. Add to it the struggling form of Sarfaraz for a considerable time across the formats.

While T20I format has an identity but, it is still looked at as an extension of LOIs and thus one will rarely see a separate setup specifically for T20Is. Other two formats were the main reason the duo had to go. Mickey did his job of planting the initial seeds of some good young players and thats in my opinion he specializes in. When you need to harvest the crop and results across the formats then you need another coach to take that role.

One can argue about the appointments post Mickey but, it was right time to let him go imo.

If there was replacement at the same level or superior him then yes I'd agree but instead we got Misbah. Not only was he a massive downgrade, I remember very well that you vouched for him before he was appointed so it's a bit rich coming from you to mention "right time to let him go".

It's quite obvious that you are in favour of Pakistani coaches but you need to understand they're all trash compared to foreign options unless you have some kind of fixed agenda?. I challenge you to name a single Pakistani coach who is on par with the average overseas coach let alone Mickey Arthur and please don't embarrass yourself and mention Mohsin Khan when you were desperately pleading for him to replace Mickey

When we have fans with this kind of mindset, we deserve to get the results we see today.

 

[topspin]

Pakistan need to bring back Mickey Arthur , he is not the best around , but the best Pakistan can afford.

Precisely this.

 

[topspin]

It seems like I wasn’t paying enough attention to the shortcomings of that side.

Can someone please list or explain the things that needed drastic improvement under Sarfaraz?

Why did Misbah think it necessary to change the side this much that he had placed two anchors up top and left us with a huge hole in the middle?

If we were so poor and required so much change, how then did we end up as no.1 and won so many series one after the other?

If the ICC rankings are wrong or don’t explain the full picture because we were playing the B sides, in bilateral series, does then the same formula apply on the rankings of our players right now?

Can the fans who love this formula of Babar/Saqlain/Rizwan/Muhammad Wasim and Ramiz Raja explain what was wrong with Mickey’s side?

OP has a point. Look you can't overinterpret bilateral T20I results as opponents typically name experimental lineups whereas Pakistan treat them like life and death. However under Mickey we won 30 from 37 T20Is with a formula involving:

- An aggressive opener paired with a prolific anchor (Fakhar-Babar).
- Three very good players of spin in the middle order (Hafeez-Malik-Sarfraz).
- At least two if not three all-rounders ensuring balance and batting depth (Imad-Shadab with either Faheem or Nawaz).
- Three fast bowlers.

I think people underestimate later stage Hafeez as a T20 bat. Between Aug 2006-Sep 2016 his avg and SR was 22/115 but post-Sep 2016 it was 37.5/136.98 (call it 137).

Some players floated in and out, but generally that was our core over a two year period with wins over England, West Indies (home and away), World XI, Sri Lanka, New Zealand (home and away), Scotland, Australia, and a tri-series involving Australia and Zimbabwe.

We slipped near the end with defeats to South Africa and England which should've necessitated subtle tweaks and changes in individual personnel - not Misbah's ripping up of the entire template !

Fully agree

 

[Barragan]

Nothing!

It was a well drilled machine and the results reflected that.

Say what you want about Sarfraz the Test or ODI captain, but he is a beast in T20's and understands the format really well.

Bring him back today and he would have this team doing far better than it is currently. He may have even led Pak to victory in the UAE for both of the events.

 

[shamaan]

Sarfraz's team was fragile. Yes it was winning series but the team wasnt as good. Some of those wins came against weaker sides.

Plus, sarfraz was a non performing captain. After champions trophy the guy just let it go.

Rizwan was a ready player and couldnt enter in the playing 11 till sarfraz was there.

also, in limited overs, sarfraz is a very good captain. But he was a waste of space as a batter.

Misbah gave us a team that was scoring 180+ but with a different approach

I will say this again, you might think our issue is with batting, but trust me, batting is not the issue here.

Issue is captaincy. Babar doesnt utilize an extra bowler (6th) properly. He goes with a set qouta. If haris rauf is getting whopped for sixes, we all know babar is still gonna bowl his full qouta.

In odi cricket you can get away with such things but not in t20. In t20 you keep options in the bowling department and not go with set plans.

Batting is a non issue.

You don't need to go with 6th bowling option if your main bowlers are doing a good job and most of the time they do a good job.

 

[hitthestump]

Ended the 2 inchers streak and got back to winning ways against them

Smashes their rivals to bits and pieces

Reached the finals and semis of the last tournies

Looked the part to on the field rather then a sack of potatoes who run the local chippy

Are Pak fans dangar or what

What did those bums you like do in T20’s in comparison, do you want to see the team get spanked like jobbers again

Lol. He is just mad that he gets repeatedly proven wrong so creates thread after thread to try and find some reassurance somewhere that he isn't completely clueless.

To say Babar has destroyed the t20 team is so off the mark it's borderline insane.

 

[Rana]

Lol. He is just mad that he gets repeatedly proven wrong so creates thread after thread to try and find some reassurance somewhere that he isn't completely clueless.

To say Babar has destroyed the t20 team is so off the mark it's borderline insane.

What’s insane is how there seems to be a blindfold on the eyes of those who cannot see how far behind we have fallen!

 

[Slim]

Ended the 2 inchers streak and got back to winning ways against them

Smashes their rivals to bits and pieces

Reached the finals and semis of the last tournies

Looked the part to on the field rather then a sack of potatoes who run the local chippy

Are Pak fans dangar or what

What did those bums you like do in T20’s in comparison, do you want to see the team get spanked like jobbers again

This thread is another 'Wake up and Repeat' as if that person is a recycling plant. Same old lame rona dhona on why Rizwan and Babar are playing up top. Same old rhona dhona by the same posters in each and every thread they open up. Please bring something new. Whatever thread you lot open, the end motive is the same.

 

[Slim]

Mickey was a great coach, but Sarfraz was past by his sell date so it was right decision to remove him.

What we did wrong was to bring the toxic duo Misbah-Waqar back, and bring the yes man Azhar back. Those were really really poor decisions.

Thankfully Rambo saved us by kicking everyone out and giving control to Babar who alongwith Saq has brought about a beautiful culture where players are playing for the flag and not cutting each others legs.

 

[Rana]

Mickey was a great coach, but Sarfraz was past by his sell date so it was right decision to remove him.

What we did wrong was to bring the toxic duo Misbah-Waqar back, and bring the yes man Azhar back. Those were really really poor decisions.

Thankfully Rambo saved us by kicking everyone out and giving control to Babar who alongwith Saq has brought about a beautiful culture where players are playing for the flag and not cutting each others legs.

They are playing for personal milestones

 

[Slim]

They are playing for personal milestones

Thats what you think, and you are in full rights to believe whatever make belief stuff you want. I have never seen a more united and mentally stronger pakistani team than this Pakistani team.

 

[muazy1]

OP has a point. Look you can't overinterpret bilateral T20I results as opponents typically name experimental lineups whereas Pakistan treat them like life and death. However under Mickey we won 30 from 37 T20Is with a formula involving:

- An aggressive opener paired with a prolific anchor (Fakhar-Babar).
- Three very good players of spin in the middle order (Hafeez-Malik-Sarfraz).
- At least two if not three all-rounders ensuring balance and batting depth (Imad-Shadab with either Faheem or Nawaz).
- Three fast bowlers.

I think people underestimate later stage Hafeez as a T20 bat. Between Aug 2006-Sep 2016 his avg and SR was 22/115 but post-Sep 2016 it was 37.5/136.98 (call it 137).

Some players floated in and out, but generally that was our core over a two year period with wins over England, West Indies (home and away), World XI, Sri Lanka, New Zealand (home and away), Scotland, Australia, and a tri-series involving Australia and Zimbabwe.

We slipped near the end with defeats to South Africa and England which should've necessitated subtle tweaks and changes in individual personnel - not Misbah's ripping up of the entire template !

100% agreed. Sarfaraz had a great captaincy brain and he was street smart. That was the only reason we won CT17 and when it came to world cup 2019, we did not qualify for the semifinal due to run rate. Misbah single handedly destroyed our cricket first in his era from 2011 to 2015 by brining inn the defensive approach and then being a coach. During his coaching tenure, he dangled up our T20 team, give the captaincy to Babar who seems clueless during pressure moments and got rid of our premiere fast bowler Amir. Amir gets a lot of hate here but he was still the best in the business. Amir was our highest wicket taker in world cup 2019 and the reason we won champions trophy. Haters can come and contradict me

 

[Rana]

Thats what you think, and you are in full rights to believe whatever make belief stuff you want. I have never seen a more united and mentally stronger pakistani team than this Pakistani team.

The only one following make belief here is you. For a long time as well.

 

[Rana]

Lol. He is just mad that he gets repeatedly proven wrong so creates thread after thread to try and find some reassurance somewhere that he isn't completely clueless.

To say Babar has destroyed the t20 team is so off the mark it's borderline insane.

This thread is another 'Wake up and Repeat' as if that person is a recycling plant. Same old lame rona dhona on why Rizwan and Babar are playing up top. Same old rhona dhona by the same posters in each and every thread they open up. Please bring something new. Whatever thread you lot open, the end motive is the same.

[MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION]

This is a clear example of being shut down for having an opinion that doesn’t suit a set narrative.

 

[muqarrab]

People like to act as if the current management is the only biased one. Mickey was unapologetically biased. Guys like Junaid, Haris, Sami Aslam, Abid, Fawad, Shinwari and even Hafeez were consistently shunned.

Junaid got the worst end of the stick in the name of fitness. He was consistently kept out of the side without much reason.

Gets into the ODI side and helps Pak win an ODI against Australia in Australia after 12 years, gets dropped for Wahab Riaz in the next series opener against WI. Then gets back in the side and helps Pak win the ODI series, gets benched for Wahab for CT 17 opener without any reason. Junaid gets recalled and plays an important role in CT17 victory, finds himself out of the side in NZ again. Then is kept out of the side till the last game in Asia Cup, gets a four fer in his only match, gets dropped from WC19 squad for Hasnain.

Pakistani fans have a ridiculously out of place high opinion of mickey arthur. He was stubbornly foolish, we had a template with which we were winning test matches in UAE. He undid all of it. The kind of gigs he got after pakistan job should tell us everything about his mettle.

 

[Slim]

[MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION]

This is a clear example of being shut down for having an opinion that doesn’t suit a set narrative.

[MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION]

i don't see how calling you out, Rana, for what you do is "shutting down".

 

[Slim]

The only one following make belief here is you. For a long time as well.

Empirical evidence shows that you are definitely in your own cuckoo land. Your opinion is a minority at best, and is agenda based.

 

[Rana]

Empirical evidence shows that you are definitely in your own cuckoo land. Your opinion is a minority at best, and is agenda based.

What empirical evidence?? You live in a very small world. Wake up and look around you! Experts on TV, social media are echoing everything I say here or have been saying here for the past 2 years since Misbah destroyed our side!

Wasim Akram
Shoaib Akhtar
Inzimam ul Haq
Aqib Javed
Shahid Afridi
Gautam Gambhir
Harsha Bhogle
Etc etc

The list can go on and on! All of them have said things that I have been screaming for since I saw right through the selfishness of this management.

 

[Slim]

What empirical evidence?? You live in a very small world. Wake up and look around you! Experts on TV, social media are echoing everything I say here or have been saying here for the past 2 years since Misbah destroyed our side!

Wasim Akram
Shoaib Akhtar
Inzimam ul Haq
Aqib Javed
Shahid Afridi
Gautam Gambhir
Harsha Bhogle
Etc etc

The list can go on and on! All of them have said things that I have been screaming for since I saw right through the selfishness of this management.

I have not seen any of these experts except Aqib Javed who is basically a clown echo your opinion. Hell, even AQ called Rizwan, Babar, Shaheen better than Pant, Kohli and Bumrah just last October

Shahid Afridi and Gautam Gambhir, no one takes them seriously just by the way.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Pakistani fans have a ridiculously out of place high opinion of mickey arthur. He was stubbornly foolish, we had a template with which we were winning test matches in UAE. He undid all of it. The kind of gigs he got after pakistan job should tell us everything about his mettle.

Not just tests. Everyone keeps forgetting the 5-0 loss in NZ, 4-0 in England, 4-0 in UAE (to Australia) in ODIs. Mickey wasn't some great coach. He had some good qualities, yes, but he is not even near enough to be considered as the best coach.

There are other better coaches like Stuart Law, Tom Moody, etc that PCB can afford.

 

[Slim]

Not just tests. Everyone keeps forgetting the 5-0 loss in NZ, 4-0 in England, 4-0 in UAE (to Australia) in ODIs. Mickey wasn't some great coach. He had some good qualities, yes, but he is not even near enough to be considered as the best coach.

There are other better coaches like Stuart Law, Tom Moody, etc that PCB can afford.

Mickey did a great job for Pakistan but by the end of the WC campaign he was definitely out of depth. What followed his removal was a big shame though. Wasim Khan and his handlers completely bombed it.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Babar and Rizwan is the best we have.

The only thing to be tweaked is them "not batting till the 15th over" and scoring 75 off 60 balls and then asking 3, 4 and 5 to hit 60 in last 5 to get to 180 runs.

They simply wont be capable enough.

 

[Usman]

OP has a point. Look you can't overinterpret bilateral T20I results as opponents typically name experimental lineups whereas Pakistan treat them like life and death. However under Mickey we won 30 from 37 T20Is with a formula involving:

- An aggressive opener paired with a prolific anchor (Fakhar-Babar).
- Three very good players of spin in the middle order (Hafeez-Malik-Sarfraz).
- At least two if not three all-rounders ensuring balance and batting depth (Imad-Shadab with either Faheem or Nawaz).
- Three fast bowlers.

I think people underestimate later stage Hafeez as a T20 bat. Between Aug 2006-Sep 2016 his avg and SR was 22/115 but post-Sep 2016 it was 37.5/136.98 (call it 137).

Some players floated in and out, but generally that was our core over a two year period with wins over England, West Indies (home and away), World XI, Sri Lanka, New Zealand (home and away), Scotland, Australia, and a tri-series involving Australia and Zimbabwe.

We slipped near the end with defeats to South Africa and England which should've necessitated subtle tweaks and changes in individual personnel - not Misbah's ripping up of the entire template !

Hafeez was a superstar for a period up to the end of his career. After years of false promise, he finally became the batsmen that we wanted so badly. Our struggles right now are down to his absence and the total lack of alternatives.

I have high hopes for Shan. Inshallah he will do us proud and fill in the Hafeez void!

 

[cricenjoyer]

Sarfraz's team had the luxury of having Malik and Hafeez in the middle order and 3 allrounders in the form of Shadab, Imad and Faheem.

However just like Babar and Rizwan are both not in the top tier of T20I batsmen, our T20 team under Sarfraz was also not a number 1 team. Most of their wins came on slow, low UAE wickets vs B teams and only 1 away series win vs NZ.

Also as OP is someone who appreciates T20 cricket being played as it should be i'll give a statistic. Under Babar Pakistan's three highest T20 totals have been scored, including our highest run chase.

Was it against a C team? Sure but Sarfraz's team had ample chances vs many C and associate teams yet failed to break any such records

 

[Slim]

Babar Azam and Rizwan thumping their haters while they cry with their clownish opinions. Should retire from watching Pakistan cricket.

 

[Titan24]

If there was replacement at the same level or superior him then yes I'd agree but instead we got Misbah. Not only was he a massive downgrade, I remember very well that you vouched for him before he was appointed so it's a bit rich coming from you to mention "right time to let him go".

It's quite obvious that you are in favour of Pakistani coaches but you need to understand they're all trash compared to foreign options unless you have some kind of fixed agenda?. I challenge you to name a single Pakistani coach who is on par with the average overseas coach let alone Mickey Arthur and please don't embarrass yourself and mention Mohsin Khan when you were desperately pleading for him to replace Mickey

When we have fans with this kind of mindset, we deserve to get the results we see today.

Results we see today. Ahmm ahmm.

Move on buddy, as mentioned not interested in talking to anyone who can’t control his emotions even when typing.

From cricketing perspective, I mentioned myself there is argument about the appointments post Mickey so not sure what you are on about. Forum is not meant to release your personal frustrations at the expense of getting personal with others.

Live the fantasies that allow you to relax in your mind or whoever you want to quote but, leave my comments and posts out of your quotes. Have mentioned it before as well so take the cue.

 

[hitthestump]

Thats what you think, and you are in full rights to believe whatever make belief stuff you want. I have never seen a more united and mentally stronger pakistani team than this Pakistani team.

Absolutely. I can't think of any t20 side Pakistan have had in their history that would have completed this chase today nor the one against India so emphatically.

 

[adzzy786]

The funny thing is Safraaz as Captain had a winning % of just under 80% in t20i’s, which is actually phenomenal.
Compare that with captain Afridi at 45%

Babar at 68%
Malik at 67.50%
Hafeez ar 60.34%

 

[Ashmal]

Who are you trying to fool?

Yes we beat India comprehensively (subject to winning the toss). We were twice bailed out of jail by Asif Ali against NZ and AFG. Then Naseem Shah at Sharjah in the Asia cup only to be fully exposed against SL.

We have no strategy but to hope 2 players bat as long as possible if the score is around 180 max.

This is one of the poorest sides to represent T20i let alone Pakistan

You are fooling yourself into believing that Pakistan defeated India twice due to toss only.

Why didn't toss help Pakistan in the finals then......or does toss become a factor only when Pakistan win the game.

All this team needs is a couple of decent middle-order batsman....if they manage to find them, they will compete against any team.

 

[Rana]

Babar Azam and Rizwan thumping their haters while they cry with their clownish opinions. Should retire from watching Pakistan cricket.

You were saying?

Not tagging me today?

 

[Rana]

What a horrendous team we have become

We didn’t deserve to win the last two but the bowlers bowled out of their skin

 

[Kianig89]

Mickey had some strategy vision unlike tea sippers and nature lovers

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] are you enjoying the unity of this team? They seem United in mediocrity

 

[PakEngFan]

Mickey was perfect Sarfaraz batting was non existent and his pathetic shouting was awful to see Hasan Ali used to bat ahead of him at times. No one needs a captain when he has more trust in a tail ender them himself. Mickey should still be our coach and Sarfraz is there where he belongs in domestics.

 

[msb314]

I think Mickey was a great coach and it was Pakistan's loss to lose him. Players were gelling well under him too.

Coaches after Mickey didn't really groom many players.

Micket went into WC 2019 and champions trophy 2017 whiteout knowing his best eleven, a good coach doesn't do that.

Because Micky was intelligent than Ramiz

Pakistan need to bring back Mickey Arthur , he is not the best around , but the best Pakistan can afford.

Precisely this.

Mickey was a great coach, but Sarfraz was past by his sell date so it was right decision to remove him.

What we did wrong was to bring the toxic duo Misbah-Waqar back, and bring the yes man Azhar back. Those were really really poor decisions.

Thankfully Rambo saved us by kicking everyone out and giving control to Babar who alongwith Saq has brought about a beautiful culture where players are playing for the flag and not cutting each others legs.

I was also firmly in the pro- Mickey camp back in 2017 but the fact is that our results after the 2017 CT were very poor.

- losing a Test home series (0-2) against a weak SL team
- losing 5-0 away to NZ
- losing another Test home series (1-2) to NZ
- Losing to India twice and to Bangladesh in the 2018 Asia Cup (failing to reach final)
- Losing 4-0 to England
- first round elimination in 2019 WC

This is not opinion but FACT - results speak for themselves..

Despite Saqlain’s flaws our results - especially in white ball cricket have been much better

 

[Rana]

I was also firmly in the pro- Mickey camp back in 2017 but the fact is that our results after the 2017 CT were very poor.

- losing a Test home series (0-2) against a weak SL team
- losing 5-0 away to NZ
- losing another Test home series (1-2) to NZ
- Losing to India twice and to Bangladesh in the 2018 Asia Cup (failing to reach final)
- Losing 4-0 to England
- first round elimination in 2019 WC

This is not opinion but FACT - results speak for themselves..

Despite Saqlain’s flaws our results - especially in white ball cricket have been much better

What results? England chasing 170 with 30 balls to spare?

 

[msb314]

What results? England chasing 170 with 30 balls to spare?

It is just one game in a 7 match series. Vent your frustration if we lose the series decider..

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I was also firmly in the pro- Mickey camp back in 2017 but the fact is that our results after the 2017 CT were very poor.

- losing a Test home series (0-2) against a weak SL team
- losing 5-0 away to NZ
- losing another Test home series (1-2) to NZ
- Losing to India twice and to Bangladesh in the 2018 Asia Cup (failing to reach final)
- Losing 4-0 to England
- first round elimination in 2019 WC

This is not opinion but FACT - results speak for themselves..

Despite Saqlain’s flaws our results - especially in white ball cricket have been much better

Mickey didn't understand how to win test matches in Asia.

But he was good at developing young players.

Its better to have a vision but fail, than have no vision but win due to some individual brilliance occasionally.

I'd prefer him as a coach over Saqlain and hope he returns to Pakistan cricket at some point.

 

[Rana]

It is just one game in a 7 match series. Vent your frustration if we lose the series decider..

It’s not one game. We have been abysmal for quite some time.

We nearly botched the chase v NZ at Sharjah. One of the smallest grounds in the world

We made a meal out of the chase against Afghanistan

We made just about a decent score against Australia because of a Fakhar Zaman freak innings

We couldn’t bat well against India game 1 of the Asia cup. Bowlers took it to the last over

We were saved by an extraordinary innings by Nawaz against India game 2

We nearly botched the chase against Afghanistan again

We were thoroughly thrashed by SL in both games regardless of one of them being a dead rubber

We continued the rubbish form against England B team game 1 and lost comprehensively

Game 2, England made a blunder by batting first

Game 3, England wiped the floor with our mediocrity that was carrying on throughout the year

Game 4 and 5, England botched two easy chases

Game 6, England proved those two botched chases were Pakistan flukes and it was their bowling that had been saving them throughout

We need to accept. This team has been destroyed by Whatever management that took over after the 2019 World Cup. It is totally unbalanced and it is one of the toughest atmospheres for any performing batsman to walk into and try and cement himself.

 

[Rana]

I believe Pakistan has lost its most T20s under Babar Azam’s captaincy.

 

[Zaz]

I believe Pakistan has lost its most T20s under Babar Azam’s captaincy.

That is not true

pakistan has a win loss ratio of 66% unders babars captaincy

 

[shamaan]

It is just one game in a 7 match series. Vent your frustration if we lose the series decider..

I would prefer to loose the series aslong as thiers chances to the world cup squad.

 

[shamaan]

That is not true

pakistan has a win loss ratio of 66% unders babars captaincy

Has Sarfraz got the best win percentage?

 

[GreenKhan]

It’s not one game. We have been abysmal for quite some time.

We nearly botched the chase v NZ at Sharjah. One of the smallest grounds in the world

We made a meal out of the chase against Afghanistan

We made just about a decent score against Australia because of a Fakhar Zaman freak innings

We couldn’t bat well against India game 1 of the Asia cup. Bowlers took it to the last over

We were saved by an extraordinary innings by Nawaz against India game 2

We nearly botched the chase against Afghanistan again

We were thoroughly thrashed by SL in both games regardless of one of them being a dead rubber

We continued the rubbish form against England B team game 1 and lost comprehensively

Game 2, England made a blunder by batting first

Game 3, England wiped the floor with our mediocrity that was carrying on throughout the year

Game 4 and 5, England botched two easy chases

Game 6, England proved those two botched chases were Pakistan flukes and it was their bowling that had been saving them throughout

We need to accept. This team has been destroyed by Whatever management that took over after the 2019 World Cup. It is totally unbalanced and it is one of the toughest atmospheres for any performing batsman to walk into and try and cement himself.

You have such a negative outlook . We nearly did this , this team botched things up blah blah blah .

This team is by no means perfect , in fact no team is , but they do have is belief , guts and heart along with skill .

This has led them win from improbable situations. If it happens once it’s a fluke but if it happens more than once and regularly then it shows the team has something about them .

Is the batting an issue yes
Can we field better yes

But give the team credit and smile a little it’s good for your health and well-being .

 

[topspin]

I was also firmly in the pro- Mickey camp back in 2017 but the fact is that our results after the 2017 CT were very poor.

- losing a Test home series (0-2) against a weak SL team
- losing 5-0 away to NZ
- losing another Test home series (1-2) to NZ
- Losing to India twice and to Bangladesh in the 2018 Asia Cup (failing to reach final)
- Losing 4-0 to England
- first round elimination in 2019 WC

This is not opinion but FACT - results speak for themselves..

Despite Saqlain’s flaws our results - especially in white ball cricket have been much better

As mentioned by [MENTION=51465]DeadlyVenom[/MENTION] Mickey was good at developing players. He was instrumental to the development of Babar, Shaheen, Imad Wasim and Fakhar Zaman.

If it was up to Misbah, he would have mismanaged the likes of Babar and Shaheen when they were in the beginning of their careers and I can back this up.

Firstly, look at how Misbah treated Babar during their Islamabad United playing days. During the 2019 WC, the same low IQ fraud publicly mentioned that he didn't rate Shaheen's bowling. He was made to eat his words after Pakistan had played their last game in the competition.

You mention first round elimination of the 2019 WC but lets not forget Pakistan were very unlucky not to reach the Semis. They missed out on net run rate. The Sri Lanka game was rained off. You'd back Pakistan to win 7 or 8 times out of 10 against them. You also forgot that they had beaten the finalists and some other formidable opponents who at the time were ranked higher in ODIs such as South Africa.

White ball cricket was going in the right direction under Mickey. Saqlain cannot hold candle to him as coach.

Mickey's record in red ball cricket is made to look worse than what it is. For example, when Pakistan were whitewashed by Sri Lanka in the UAE test series. This was a team in transition. Babar was inept against spin bowling. Younis Khan had retired as well.

It's also unfair to solely blame him for the selection of one frontline spinner, Sarfraz (and perhaps Inzamam as Chief Selector at the time) have to be held responsible as well.

Lol if you really think the current Pakistan team would have beaten India with peak Rohit and Kohli in 2018 then you need to pass me whatever you're smoking.

What you've stringed together are a bunch of results without any context or insight whatsoever.

 

[Rana]

Thank you Misbah

Well done for totally destroying this side beyond repair

 

[Asif321]

Ah I miss Sarfraz and Micky combo

 

[hasanali]

I remember when Arthur's contract was up for renewal. He achieved one of the most astonishing feats of anyone associated with Pakistani cricket. He had the majority of PP'ers happy for him to be given an extension.

I wish he was still the coach.

 

[muqarrab]

Ah I miss Sarfraz and Micky combo

What was the average score of Mickey and Sarf combo side? We won under them in UAE on dusty pitches which hid our flaws. There is zero sense in dusting up this old thread everyime we lose. Micket was a clueless bumbling idiot and out team is better off not having him around.

 

[daytrader]

If Babar was developed by Arthur, then why are Mickey fans complaining on how he plays

 

[Rana]

If Babar was developed by Arthur, then why are Mickey fans complaining on how he plays

He was never developed to be this selfish captain

The captain was always the selfless Sarfaraz!

 

[Rana]

Thats what you think, and you are in full rights to believe whatever make belief stuff you want. I have never seen a more united and mentally stronger pakistani team than this Pakistani team.

Is this the most United Pakistan team Slim?

 

[Rana]

It is just one game in a 7 match series. Vent your frustration if we lose the series decider..

1 game…do you still live in denial?

 

[Asif321]

What was the average score of Mickey and Sarf combo side? We won under them in UAE on dusty pitches which hid our flaws. There is zero sense in dusting up this old thread everyime we lose. Micket was a clueless bumbling idiot and out team is better off not having him around.

Team looked completely different under them . It’s not about result even though they were number 1 side for long . Let’s forget that ranking but it was the mindset and player development during that time . Not like pulling players out of their positions only to accommodate your personal favourites . Fakhar has been destroyed under misbah even played him at number 6.

 

[Rana]

Well done Misbah ul Haq

It was Misbah who laid the foundation of this humiliation….completed by Saqlain and Babar!

 

[Kianig89]

How much we've regressed Poor Captain mediocre openers nonexistent middle order

 

[Rana]

Never understood what was wrong with Sarfaraz as captain

We are back to square 1, or in a much worse situation 3 years later

 

[Savak]

Another one of the poor decisions made by the PTI Govt. IK put pressure on Ehsan Mani and Wasim Khan to let go of Mickey Arthur and Sarfaraz Ahmed.

 

[shokz1408]

I miss those days. Both mickey and sarfaraz should have stayed on. Our team wouldn’t be so timid if that was the case.

 

[Pakpak]

Another one of the poor decisions made by the PTI Govt. IK put pressure on Ehsan Mani and Wasim Khan to let go of Mickey Arthur and Sarfaraz Ahmed.

I miss those days. Both mickey and sarfaraz should have stayed on. Our team wouldn’t be so timid if that was the case.

We made the semi and then the final in 2 T20s tourneys.

As much as Babar and Rizwan frustrate and as much as Babar is a poor captain lets not revise history.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan now ranked 7th in ICC T20i rankings

T20 is supposed to be our strongest format. Where have we gone wrong? How have we fallen off so badly having played mostly B/C string sides?

 

[mominsaigol]

Pakistan now ranked 7th in ICC T20i rankings

T20 is supposed to be our strongest format. Where have we gone wrong? How have we fallen off so badly having played mostly B/C string sides?

I didn't know you made a thread on this, I'm just seeing this now. In my personal opinion I think the team under sarfraz wasn't actually no 1, I think they just punched massively > their weight leading to victories. It was a gelled team that had had game plans basically. The team would provs had lost to Australia in a series 4-1 tbh. But 2020 was > what we have now.

The issue from 2020 till now is that

A) Too many openers were changed and randomly at that. We had shehzad, then imam, Then rizwan and babar come out of the blue. And no performing in a league at opening which no one watches and is played on 144 p quality does not count for rizwan lol.

B) Too many changes in the middle order. Where on earth did khusdil shah and chacha even come from?

C) Post many bowling changes, Again where on earth did Muhammad irfan come from?

After misbah we got babar, Unlike misbah who's problem was way way way too much experimentation, Babar’s issue is zero experimentation.

The team didn't really change under him and new players who were brought were discarded due to fear of babar's own position. And the new players who were brought in weren't really much better.

Under Bobby wr have

1) Replaced Imad For Nawaz and then just brought imad back when common sense prevailed and nawaz was shown to be way too defensive and a bad batter at no 7.

2) Had fakhar replaced for shan Masood come in at no 4, and when that experiment failed, just brought fakhar back at no 4.

3) Brought in Abdullah as a no 3, then dropped him after 4 failures to bring in Haris as a no 3, then dropped haris and brought in saim as a no 3, and now I feel like Saim will be axed after this cup and either harid will return or usman khan will take over and get dropped and Abdullah will just come back for the millionth time.

4) Chacha and shadab are still around so Say Hello to them.

5) We have irfan Khan niazi and hasebullah now who's kinda just their, so hi newbies.

6) HECK it took them 4 years to figure out that we need a spinner and abrar was the answer in 2023 not usama lol.

All that happens in Babar's captaincy is

A) Babar and rizwan open, that partnership will be broken up briefly only to return eventually once media heat has died down.

B) A player gets introduced, then dropped, then reintroduced after replacement fails which it will as the middle order is weak due to extra opening pressure.

C) Bowlers have been the same, it's always the shaeen, Naseem, Rauf trio and even when Amir, abass or hasan come in as replacements, they'll go back to Rauf, Naseem and shaheen eventually.

For those saying 2020 was fragile, 2024 is a joke, the openers can't use the PP, the middle order doesn't exist and the pacers aren't really pacers.

 

[Rana]

For those saying 2020 was fragile, 2024 is a joke, the openers can't use the PP, the middle order doesn't exist and the pacers aren't really pacers.

We are number 7 now mate

Just hovering above Sri Lanka.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I guess this is now where rankings start to matter or not matter based on what camp you are in

 

[mominsaigol]

We are number 7 now mate

Just hovering above Sri Lanka.

Idrc about rankings, their bogus for me, if you want to know my rankings it's

1) Australia (Gun bowlers + All batters are single handed one hit wins)

2) SA while batting first (Obviously)

3) England (Their getting back in form, their in the same boat as Australia batting wise, but besides Archer their bowling sucks)

4) India (Their t20 circuit isn't as strong as odi circuit, their having ego problems dealing with aged players over youngsters. The lack of form of kohli, Rohit amd Pandya are also worrying signs, and siraj sucks as a t20 bowler)

5) New Zealand ( Their selecting odi players for t20 besides Finn Allen and Conway is blocking rachin's path which Is a huge shame)

6/7) Afghanistan/West indies (Their stronger then Pakistan easily, anyone who thinks their not is crazy lol, Although in odi Pakistan is > WI)

8) Pakistan (This is their position 100%)

9) Sri Lanka

10/11) Bamgaldesh/ Nedtherlands

12) South Africa while chasing (SA is horrible at chasing but lol at them beating Pakistan in wc 2023 while chasing HAHAHAHAHAHA)